John Gotti’s Hitman Exposes The Dark Side of Mafia

there's a lot of people out there that think they know the mob so you've killed all these guys I mean it's not a short list of people it's easy for me to hurt somebody will kill something that's the easy part did someone say did you kill Johnny Gavin who's got a row Paul G Nicky Pasquale Penney Nicole yes I did I was loyal to the mom they betrayed you can't trust somebody you don't say it to shut these people that don't know what they're talking about John you're saying you were bigger than the Gotti senior and junior he doesn't belong in this life there is no honor it's treachery there is no love it's only about money it's only about an individual surviving happened the police just stumbled on us they were coming in the direction of shooting and I start huffing on my feet and I leave the cause of a cop's gang called by my grave cross Atlantic Avenue I start jumping fence in some backyards and I've taken a gun apart and drop it in and so it has are mine do you still miss any of it anybody says they don't miss the life there's a lawyer [Music] so today I have John a light with me as a guest John a light was part of the Gambino family as an associate who was working directly with John Gotti Jr there were good friends from early on teenagers and he's been known as one of the main hitmen of the Gambino family if not the main Hitman and so today's conversation is going to be more than mafia series having said that piers johnny-light John thanks for coming out thank you for having me so so you know one of the questions before we get into everything that we got how did you even get into having a relationship with John Gotti Jr how did that connection connection take place with the two of you I grew up back in Woodhaven Queens you may give and you I grew up around them all so before Gotti senior juniors father took over the mob and I re as the boss and the fatty and earu Gianna was the boss who I was close with the family with the sons they play baseball wooden legs the box at the same gym and he was the captain Gambino family that ran our area when he went to prison senior took over and stepped in his shoes and that's what you start reporting to is whoever takes over that position so the introduction was made through the community that you kind of meet him were you guys friends at what age did you meet John Gotti Jr well jr. and me were became we knew each other when jr. was about 16 years old I was a year older than him at 17 we were introduced through mutual friends said alone goodbye and he would come up to Jamaica every once in a while seen a guy named Johnny Cabot actually he's one of the guys I ordered his murder the first week I wanted to prison I told him to hit this guy when I go to prison so that was his introduction to me and him and later on that ended up being a yes me and jr. had that love-hate relationship since with children Oh since since him 16 years 17 so right off the bat you guys had a love-hate relationship yeah there was a on his end he needed us guys from Jamaica Avenue because he wanted to become he had aspirations to be like his father so he wanted to meet some tough guys and Jamaica and he was where we grew up well guys that didn't have money we come from a a poverty-stricken area where he grew up was a rich area so in order for him to feel that he was being getting his feet wet in the street he had to come up did you make a band you and me me and some of my friends so his initial friend was Joey Cabot who was a street guy yeah I mean us so at that 8:17 was Jeff was his father already the boss of the Gambino family has added happened yet no past Paul Castellanos event hasn't taken hasn't taken hasn't technically okay so at this point of where you're at the community are you in high school at 70 no you've already been out of snow on that high I'm in high school still and who are you in high school I went to school with you who was Johnny like oh I was a guy that was known to be in the gyms boxing all the time he lost battalion Hall was the gym big names at that time we're at the gym was David Sears and he fought Spinks he got knocked out real quick but he was a great fighter actually Burt young from Rocky on them and managed him Gerry Cooney I did some shows with Gerry Cooney on his radio show so Gerry Cooney was in a gym same gym as million Andes fatty and the original kids Albert was young great attitude and a fighter so we all were in those gyms Billy's dream he ends up getting killed also so this is like the place this is the place this is the tough guys place where you're growing up at oh no doubt we nicknamed our area death Haven because most of these guys that were going to speak about our debt they all got killed so you know who are the lone survivors I guess over the years and there's close to 100 guys that grew us grew up with us in that neighborhood that lost their lives now let me out you said close to hundred guys agree yeah so growing up as a kid at what age were you forced to be tough to survive in that area so right like 5 6 7 how soon does it start my father was a fanatic about fighting and not getting bullied so and an early age of three years old we were actually working out doing push-ups and learning to jump rope four years old three years old and we had a regimen of routines in baseball and boxing those were his do sports for us so we were known and my father was known in the area as king of the kids he would bring kids down and learn how to box with us and so some of my childhood friends like Timmy Donahue he's passed away also was also learned to fight with us my father brought us in and didn't want us to grow up in a neighborhood that was tough what I'll be able to be tough so right off to bed you're learning how to box they were right after but now your dad who was your dad personality-wise once you yang ster was he connected to anybody was he just a respected guy was your money guy was your worker who was your problem my dad grew up in Rivington and Delancey Street which is a known hub especially back when he grew up in the you know in the 40s and 50s with gangsters like Vito Genovese were down there and guys like that famous gangsters in those days so if he was a hanging around guy he was in a shooter he was a gambler but he stood with all gangsters and he was very friendly but look at Luciano's cousin Charlie Luciano we used to call Blackie so I was introduced to him as a young kid so my father was very familiar with the world of mob guys what's he trying to get you to stay away from the world like what's the link was he kind of like hey you got to go out there and figure out a way to make money at all cost what was the conversation like between you and your pal my dad was complete opposite he was a a gambler a hustler and didn't want me with the mob world but at the same time he was bringing me around these guys so as he's telling me stay away as I'm getting older I'm getting attracted to the money and I see my but my father struggling and I see some of these guys and they treat me well and you know I'm getting attracted to that life and I want I want that life you wanted that life I wanted that life my father wanted me to be a pro fighter of a pro ballplayer you know a baseball player so he had a different outlook on on things and he didn't think in my father's mind I'm very close to my dad is to teach me to survive that for me to understand the mob world but to be like him don't go dive into that word and I guess he thought that I would never dive in I'd be like him but it was the opposite I went to the extreme the other way you wanted to extreme the other way mom and dad both Albanian both humming both Albie okay got it and so he's trying to you know encouraging and not to get in but at the same time you're on the environment you know gambling you around and at what age are you're on these folks by the way is it very like early or very young early very early very early and are they taking a liking to you like look you know we like you you know we like lead is their name hey little Johnny is John is were you like somebody that was like yeah I was a skinny little kid when I was muscular because I was always doing push-ups pull-ups and so they used to joke Johnny walk on your hands because I could stand on my hands Johnny show us to do polio and I was like a good dog doing tricks right I like the attention that they kept saying it was tough they showed me to tell me put the hands up it yeah and I'd hit the hands boxing a little bit and they'd get a kick out of me and I got a kick out of them get a kick out of me so interesting I continued with a form of entertainment form of acceptance so at what was the first experience of making money illegally or legally for you at what age again I was in an environment that it was constant trouble and it was constant gang-related back in those days you know back in those days there was a lot of racial tension because of the times it was the 60s so I worked in a deli and I spoke about this cold Dick's deli and it was a legitimate job and in between going box and playing baseball I became the captain of baseball team in high school I was working in his deli but that deli introduced me to a couple things a lot of my friends that were involved with a gang called 7 and 9 that were very dangerous and it was basically it became a huge gang throughout all New York not just our area and it introduced me to the corner shop the car service what happened to me my girlfriend's father and he was a gangster with okz family and around the corner was a bookmaker which was his brother Luis Gotti and George County and he ran the local bookmaking area and of course room how are you at this time you're saying again maybe 15 when I started getting involved running slips for them innocently I yeah I'm working in Dick's deli and they asked me do me a favor and run it across the street so innocently I'm not looking to get involved to that extent I just guy's telling me a bookmakers and some tough guys and a couple kill was that later on at that age I still don't realize that killers there will humble guys and people have the idea the loudest man in the room is the toughest and it's complete opposite the guys I've learned to look up to a guys like Charlie Luciano that will humble and quiet a gentleman and those are the guys when they could turn that switch on and kill and I try to mimic those guys as I got older it's funny Gianni Russa also said in New York you would run he was a runner at 14 15 years old for Frank Costello's what he was doing that for when he was doing the certain favors for it so at what point will you kind of like wow you know I'm running I'm doing this but I'm seeing the lifestyle maybe there's a bigger opportunity here where was that opening was there anything that was you know was it accidental was it intentional how did it end well I didn't have to really after doing that I didn't have to get any further introduction because I'm working on making $75 a week in a deli basically working full-time for the you know whatever the minimum wage was back then and if George or ro well we had a good week and he run as he saw he was also a professional box that he joins a gangster and mousie know the guy when they were having a good week they took me 20 50 a hundred so at the end of the week I'm getting 75 from the deli and these guys may be on a good week of giving me 300 and you're talking about one on the kid when 300s like 3,000 what year is this this is 1975 76 and he sells a lot of money right there not a money yeah for four 14 15 year-old kid making 300 bucks yeah a week on top of the 75 it's okay so now you meet Gotti you're 17 he's 16 where does the relation relationship go to you know come on in let's do some more work together how did that sup how does that happen nickel diamond in a drug business Albert Luciano is my but you know what you would say umbrella and these a couple years older than me and if I had any issues I would bring Dalbert at the time his dad was still the boss and as when his dad leaves I'm also dabbling in a bookmaking business and Gabon has a problem with Ghani on a street with some Jamaicans they rob I think about two or three hundred pounds at that time gap it wasn't moving weed at that time what we call weed back then and God he was his partner they asked me to take a ride and be the shooter with with gebet actually I was the driver gather was the shooter and that was the first time they asked me to do a favor and it was really Gabbard that was asking me to favor because he lived around a corner from me and he was friends with God he and friends with me so he said we just do me a favor and take the ride I said yeah and we met God he to discuss how we were gonna do it that was probably the first major step into becoming later on involved in setting up multiple killing shooting seven and beatings around the city what was the first time the request was made like how did they know you were the guy to go to had you already kill people or or had never happened before no I you know most of my friends unlike what people think because they know my history now they think I was a wild kid with guns and knives and bats it was actually the complete opposite of all my friends around seven and nine gang my first friend Michael Scranton ends up killing a kid at sixteen and going to prison another young guy Tommy Turner kills another guy that works at Dick's deli with us you know they try to jump on me stabbed the guy up he went to jail so these guys that were growing up with me the Bonner brothers they're using guns everybody's using guns my friend Mikey Murillo gets shot in the head with a shotgun chasing a guy that had the gun so he'll tell you the mentality of us he's chasing a guy that actually has the shotgun with no gun and he loses his life there so I was kind of innocent compared to them I wasn't running around with guns I was fighting with my hands as I'm getting acclimated with all my friends I was surrounding people that are surrounded around my life I start slowly picking up knives bats and then I go into the guns so after that shooting would get it I think that opened the door for people say oldest kid I'll do anything got it so what was your first experience with knives and bats was it still in your teens or oh yeah was in my teens it wasn't your yes by telling mom 17 I start using a bat like crazy too at 17 17 by the time mom 19 I've stabbed a couple guys added a couple guys I got stabbed up and batted myself at 19 I almost lost my life that you know I wasn't out at hospitals for about a year and now I really understood the life and I started to understand as I'm climbing up the ladder I'm losing my cousin Patsy adriano senior gets killed then Mikey Murillo gets killed and Billy extreme it gets killed and what is this doing to you when when this is happening and you're seeing people that are friends family getting killed are you getting the retaliatory are you getting the retaliation blood and you or no you're just kind of seeing what's going on you got to protect yourself no I'm getting like you're doing as a journalist and as an interview person and you you develop and you become top in your field right you become somebody that's going to be the best and you're gonna do your homework and you're gonna study and you're gonna make sure that you don't make mistakes and you're gonna go it's closer to the kinda it's a hundred percent to be an expert in your business so I decided I'm not gonna be the next victim like all my friends they were all getting killed out of stupidity and out of trust of trust and so on you got to cut those odds down and I said to myself I'm gonna be very aggressive and I'm gonna understand I'm not 14 or 15 or 16 anymore when someone comes after me they know I'm dangerous now they're gonna come to kill me so who are you trusting at that time you know we have people that you trust a hundred percent oh yeah I had I had a ton of guys as I'm getting older and I'm moving in the drug business bookmaking business right I have dozens of guys that work for me and it goes into hundreds later on as I keep getting older and I'm and I start my own cruise and with the okay or the Gambino family so I become a big earner on the street and I become a guy that's well known with different crews and and I'm trusting my guys and I'm also trusting the mob almost blindly you know believing that this loyalty and this honor and there's no treachery and I'm still naive right I'm a young kid that loves this life believes in it and as I start seeing some things as I'm getting older and understanding there is no honor its treachery there is no love it's only about money it's only about an individual surviving and I'm watching as I'm going through life and getting bigger and stronger in this life and being more successful that I'm watching gangster made guy you have to made yeah you know cooperating Rati breaking the oath laws are rules that I live by although I'm Albanian but what was the first request that made by maybe you know John juniors father that came down did you have a meeting with John senior that have you had multiple meetings with them Oh at this point I've met Gotti senior Angelo Ruggiero well I got a report to the club 24 hours a day 7 days a week when I'm called I have to be there early in the morning like a job I already know some 18-plus yeah about the 19 more 719 it's about the time I get stabbed up and everything and I don't come a couple of times and I think Gotti senior at this time thinks I'm just one of his son's friends and I don't need to beat it and I get a knock on my door and it's my grandmother upstairs we live in the same house and she says Johnny there's a big black car outside then there's somebody's out there so I go out there and it's Gotti senior's brothers that's Pete Gotti and Ritchie Gotti at the time both guys aren't me guys and they said to him a way to [ __ ] all you and his brothers yes what are you talking about he says my brother's look up here and I look at him funny like and then I start realizing wait a second you know to myself with split second and I go back upstairs and I come down and I says let's go and they said you know he wants to talk to you that's what I realized that I'm just not some kid to him I'm not his son's friend we're not in a gang this is not a you know a school trip now I'm starting to really realize this guy's noticing me and he's watching what I'm doing and I'm still not understanding it these orders I'm getting collect money go baseball bat this guy go pick up this is actually coming from the father you know I just think it's us too our own business on her own Jeannie God he's still alive still around at the time he's not locked up yet and I just believe it's that and then I started opens my eyes and said this guy is he's very aware of what we're doing he's very aware that we're moving drugs just says he is it because I'm not schooled fully yet I'm still a kid not understanding the intricacies of the Mafia I'm not understanding I'm not slick enough yet to understand how things are operating you say something but you might mean something else you're doing something and they're telling you they had no knowledge of it but they're the ones that sent you I start understanding all the double dealings and the treachery in the life who's teaching you like who is your lefty - Donnie Brasco or your sunny who's playing that role in your life that is kind of mentoring you say like here's what it is here's what America is here's a code of this here's this who is who's doing that with you well it was a guy Ronnie Martino who's a known killer back in the Dick's deli and Gambino family know outside and again be no family he had a brother-in-law that was involved with the Gambino family but he was involved with the Lucchese family and I had a lot of Lucchese he had a brother Gambino in his Lucchesi not a brother a brother-in-law a brother-in-law got it and you know it's not what everybody thinks it's not you know most of there's five families in New York there's the outfit in Chicago there's a Philadelphia mob Cavalcanti family in North Jersey well we all mingle into them intermingle with each other we do business with each other we're friends with each other but we also kill each other on orders so it'sit's it's not as simple and cut and dry that people there's a lot of people out there that think they know the mob and they think they understand that and there's people that are so naive and there's people that think there are experts in this world and it's life there's guys like Sammy Gravano was a friend of mine and other guys that there are ex skippers and bosses and on the bosses that we're all touch with and we live that life and even us we have daily problems understanding the life in the treachery and as we all got out of the life and moved on with our lives or our friends died or got killed you know these people that challenged us and these days you know you could challenge anybody through a computer well they talk they just talk such nonsense because they have no idea or clue of the treachery that involves when you get to the level that we were playing at so and so what's the next place so now they're coming the brothers are coming you're in the car you're like I got to go these guys he knows what's going on the orders are coming from the top you go in so now there's almost a level of accountability from his end and the son is a friend but it's not you're not yet reporting to anybody or are you well now I start reporting it's about close to Paul Castle I know getting killed so it's the end of 84 about prior to Paul getting killed I start reporting and having conversations Norwood senior Gotti prior to that I was involved with Jeannie Gotti Johnny Canaria anybody that was around Willie boy Johnson was on a half sheet with him and gaudy senior sent me to him so I understood that God he was my poly not the father and we had the New York Mets gambling with me so so when I moved to a different level we used to play it we used to hang out a place called channel ad and it was a known spot for also gangsters you'd pull up with a boat we all had cigarette boats in those days I had a 280 Baja with Gotti junior and we'd pull up to those places and Rodger pasilla loaned it he was around Jimmy Burke from Goodfellas his son Frankie was a good friend of mine he gets killed also and I start understanding that we're all living a pretty dangerous life now any moment anybody could get killed didn't matter who it was where it was in your house in a business and it's not like these days where guys aren't shooting when we were growing up 70s 80s 90s there was killing was rampant shootings were rapid and batting's were rampant so when I'm doing business and I'm talking to Willie boy Johnson I understand where it's coming from him and Gotti had his conversations what Lisa why I'm the senior had his conversations with me so I understand the orders are coming from did you know were you involved in in the Castellano before it happened with Sam Ian and the team was there anything that you know about it that was an actual level yet no I was at my level it was but it was through his Jr loved to talk to me in practice so private least jr. told me I knew I'm involved with Angelo Ruggiero so I was close with them I'm close with Johnny connect at this time I gave a beatin - Patsy catalano's kid Jeff who was in heroin business a genie Gotti and Johnny could against me to hurt him I gave a beatin to a guy Frankie you know these beatings are serious beings not what your hands bad that's black Jack's a guy Frankie that's straight away from Johnny Kinnear and they asked me to hurt him I know the guy Mitch Sanders they asked me to hurt him over some sort of rape with his girlfriend's sister they accused him they go ask and they asked the Gambino family due to work Johnny comes to me so I start understanding I heard Jean Foster on a beach and I started hurting guys and baton guys and piping guys and it's coming from at that time I didn't really understand what's coming from God he's senior until until he didn't like that I didn't jump on a situation fast enough and he called me in his office and he said did my son tell you to do something and then the next conversation I had was if it's not done you even have a problem so I took care of business of seniors told you yeah and then I went through that over to the races no he's a beating still oh you still haven't new you still haven't knows I'm doing shootings but I haven't killed any black besides the gibbet and he was actual shooter so I don't know how many guys died on that shooting but you know we had I believe three guys and maybe a girl actually was there so you know you don't stand back there and count how many guys are going down you know they're going down there screaming and he shoot like crazy so that's your first one that is my fresh I was young I was 19 years old what happened when that happened to you were you like I cannot believe I just did this what what the hell just happened were you I was mad because I talked about this Gotti and a kid Jerry was following us in a cake all junior and it was supposed to be our blockers and they took off and made a left when a police with Jason's happened - please just stumbled on us they were coming in the direction of shooting it wasn't if we weren't fall from the precincts from a hundred second priests and so there's a lot of police cause there I mean for them to be coming down a block at that time you got some bad look so after we do the shooting I would think you know I wasn't sure how I would react either like you saying naturally you're not sure are you gonna hold your mud or are you gonna panic or you gonna it became very natural to me it was very easy I pulled away the cops were chasing us gabot left the gun in my car he jumped out well it was moving that was going slow down a one-way street not slow but I was coming up to the stop sign and he jumped out he said let me out as he jumped out he left the gun and the cops started chasing me and my my follow call and my backup car was supposed to be got eNOS get Jerry and they had an excuse why they jumped out so really I'm the only guy holding a mud and I was heading down towards Atlantic Avenue was the one I know the streets take because we lived there and I know it's in one way I open up the passenger door I open up the other door I take the gun and I start huffing on my feet and I leave the cause of the cops can't go by I great across Atlantic Avenue I start jumping fences some backyards and I'm taking the gun apart and drop it in and so as I'm running and I get myself back to our club 113th Street and I'm steaming and I says now I won't gap it this is the first time I'm saying okay I'm going to get gutted so gabot came to the shooting hi he was smoking dust and he's a wild guy you know no doubt I know Kevin since he's a kid he's a shooter he shot a lot of guys but he's a you know he's a guided smoking angel toasties so I look at him in a different light now you know weak you can't do work without doing that you left me and I'm looking at God it you know I'm thinking that's all I'm thinking and why I stick around is because I have a bigger plan for myself because everybody asked me that question why do you stick around I says because jr. wasn't my direction his father was the direction I was trying to go and Angelo Ruggiero at the time is moving heroin with Jeannie Gotti Joanie connect they will get pinched walk writer and I'm very friendly with them and I'm moving some I stopped moving packages not net level in small levels but I'm moving it to Rikers Island through another guy that said Rikers Island uh a guy Chrissy Pete Chrissy he's dead he died also but his brothers are still around there's his work for me actually one of his brothers Tommy Chrissy shot give it up before we kill him on what was on a kill and when we see him which he lived but uh I'm in a different circle and I understand what what I'm involved with now what Angela would Johnny and the shooting start the drug business starts so I understand and I know where I want to go I got the New York Mets gambling with me and actually somebody questioned that I don't remember who and they came out with a check from Keith Hernandez of $5,000 to show they were paying they found the $5 he put it was in papers it was in the real papers so that's documented it's documented you know a lot of this stuff um speaking about this a new book I'm coming out with rocket talks now it to and I'm gonna come back this time you know because I'm gonna talk about shooting after shooting stabbing after stabbing but this time I told my author I want the witnesses and their names besides the victims in that book and I'm gonna do a scorecard inside so I'm gonna show it step by step the teachers don't understand the life so at that moment when that event happened with Gotti junior is your level of trusting him at a good score and then after that it's a scar will you kind of keep it in the back your minds and I can never trust this guy like where are you with him because there are certain things where you see somebody do something about your mind like okay it's done I can never trust this guy but I have to act like I do it is that kind of what happened we told the two of you a hundred percent because people ask you this you know during the trials they were there's a lot of questions for our lawyers and journalists and you know and I said to him listen I tell everybody the same thing you had all the positions before this as a kid you're growing up and this bosses you don't respect you don't trust and you keep it down the back it's just a lesson learned that you know that you can't trust them you know that he's not he doesn't belong in this life as the years are moving on and not even years as the months and weeks are going on I just named probably half a dozen of our friends had already dead by the time the next year comes around I can name another six seven guys that are dead so here's piers good friends and some of these friends of mine are guys later on that I kill or I have killed you know I had like Johnny gebet I have him killed at one time he was my friend as a kid he lived around the corner from me but you starting to understand the life and you starting to stand at ready and your understanding just like at war that this is your not at playing a game no more you're not the schoolyard you're not gonna punch a guy in the face and it's gonna end so you start really understanding when you can't trust somebody you don't say it you don't talk only the guys that talk dead so you know I always use the on force I got a lot of respect for these guys and I've talked about it on a regular basis Armed Forces because these guys every day put on a uniform whether they see action know action they have the possibility to lose in their life so when people sit in their comfortable homes and they don't salute a flag or they don't get up and respect on people in armed forces around the world not just this country Isis I despise them they're cowards and I have strong feelings against them because these men they lost their mothers fathers kids children and we have no right in the matter what and I lived a rough life on the street and no matter what this country has done to me as far as prisons and I'll never disrespect the flag or the people that fight for our country so it's very important and I think that the message of somebody's people leave out the street about something they don't understand this it's important to get the right message out there John at that moment when you're when you're seeing what happened with a UN Gotti junior was there a moment where the next time you saw him what he couldn't look at you in their eyes was there anything like that word the tension was felt or no you acted like everything was okay like even a smile like you just made right now that smile tells 50 stories right so you know what I'm saying when you see somebody and there's a smirk or smile or squint or angle of looking at him is there any that felt between the two of you or nothing at all yeah I asked them what happened he gave me an answer I know it was [ __ ] and I didn't question anymore I just put it in the bank and said okay I know what he's made of now so I understood at that moment that he'll sell me out any second anytime and later on he does yeah so so so then this leads me to the next question now you're saying in that moment you're you have bigger ambitions on what you want to do right you're saying I have bigger ambitions but you're Albanian right it's there's you can't be a made man and again be no family and be Albanian you've got to be Italian right I mean that's one of the things that they had them so special E to go be a boss to be the boss it's a complete different story so as much as you're motivated and ambitious to do it what was your formula on how to get to the top no I understood technically I couldn't be officially made technically but otherwise and every other aspect of that street world I'm considered being made yeah I'm considered being almost a boss on the street I'm considered by anybody in the mall because you know what runs runs the world of the Mafia is violence violence and money so if you can I had the qualities that other guys that I was intelligent so I know how to make money I don't know how to operate businesses and I was vicious so those qualities make me become another Jimmy Burke who was Robert De Niro Goodfellas who know of course yeah his son was my good friend so I looked at Jimmy Burke I don't see I don't think there was anybody ever when he was in jail on the streets would ever say oh you're Irish we're not respecting you as a gangster as a mob guy well Joe Watts who was a very personal friend and a known killer in our family and John Gotti senior's main guy and he was German so there's guys that I looked at and said I'm going to be done and I did become then the guys testified in trials in court that I had my own crew when it was very unusual for an Albanian and non Italian to be able to run their own crews on a street and always challenge but those guys and his groups outside of you know you see some of these mob sites and the guys they don't even know what they're speaking about this there was you know the Westies and Irish group at New York Manhattan I would laugh if somebody ever typed something to them back in the 80s that they're they're not respected because they're Irish and even we'll talk about these days the last four hits American Italian mafia what done by black guys so I want to see those same guys telling them well we're not gonna respect them people in the street and this is anybody in the street well the Hells Angels my friend was he just passed away was grow up me since what kids was president Hells Angels I don't want to see I don't think there's anybody in it from the screen that is really a legitimate tough guy that doesn't on the standard Street we understand to respect somebody would intelligence and somebody that is on the street that's it's tough so regardless no one says to you well what's your nationality I'm gonna respect you for your national I don't know that about it but but there's it they're like you know Mira you you you you know Tony Mirra you know there were certain guys that were known for being earners there were certain guys for being known for being soldiers right there are guys that knew how to go make the money and some of them that knew how to take the hits one of the things Sammy was known for the guy the reason why he got so much street credit is and this is this comes from everybody I talk to whoever I talk to for whatever reason they all either respects and Sammy and validate what he did and even the whole story with him and got him going and testifying immunity whatever you want to call it for the 19 counts they say he ran a legitimate construction company was making money and at the same time when it came down to tune the job he did it as well so but because he was Italian he could eventually end up being a boss what was your you know and of you know my vision is one day John la it's gonna be XYZ what was your ocean I'll tell you something cuz you mentioned Sammy Sammy Gravano and this is the first time I mention that anyway Sammy Gravano did an interview his first one since he's been home from his 15 years he just did and his interview was about Johnny Lee he does a Oreo interview with a guy named Andy DeLeon oh the perfect gangster won that interview was gonna be in Europe shortly and he discusses what I am and what's a thug what's a mafioso what's a gangster and he says most people this is his words or uh either like a Michael Franzese who's a mafia mafioso erna but not a killer he doesn't put a gun in his hand he's a very intelligent man I like him I respect him he speaks well he turned his life around he's doing the right thing and then there's guys like Frank Cullotta who's thug gangster killer so there's two types Sammy gave me in that interview he said about me that I'm both I'm an earner I'm a thug and I'm a mafioso and I'm an all banging mafioso that has total respect from the mob world and that I'm a professional hitman and I'm the killer and I'm the Gambino's families hit Bennett I know unfortunately I was around the wrong guys the Gottis those are his words not mine those those are recorded words how many total people have you done a how many hits did you do total you're different now yeah 15 us you know you get TV here's the thing you know you go play baseball and I've tried to say this is you know so many different times when I'm talking you will play baseball and a guy plays one game and he gets a base hit he's gonna remember it up for his Russells likes only game he played I did this day in and day out so when someone said did you kill Georgie Grasso I'll give you names that he should I'm gonna head yes I did did somebody say did you kill Johnny Gavin yes I did I ordered him dead did you kill Bruce got her up unfortunately how friends were his family now yes I did I ordered him dead did you shoot Michael alig me in the chest and porticos he testified against you 25 years yes I did did you shoot Ricky Stratton in the head only at the ballpark way Johnny I did you shoot him yes I did did you shoot Paul G in front of John Gotti senior's house and you didn't care what's in front of us house yes I did did you shoot Nicky Pasquale five times on his porch and he lose his leg and he almost died yes I did did you stab a guy in front of Vinny butch in Fort Lauderdale in the neck in the stomach and he was operated twice and almost died yes I did did you shoot cell no Rose brother-in-law and bulkhead ball yes I did I shot his friend outside the bulkhead ball yes I'd I could go on with these names and if I did I show two guys in front of mondello's for Michael counter panel we call cat man still alive yes I did witnesses that I baseball about three bikers and by baseball bat Nicky Kenny Nicole on 78th Street in front of old brother and by accident yes I did he's alive joy Mathis his dad I went to protect them then I piped three guys and hit him with bottles and throw it princeton diner frontally symmetry dziak her best friends married to Joe puja Toria captain in a Philadelphia mob she was there still alive yes I did did I stab a biker in Forest Hills in the thigh and tell him I'll shoot him and I had never come looking for me again after that baseball by the other three bikers yes I did Michael Finney testified against it for it about what I did did I shoot my pip and two other guys in front one hundred sixteen 101st Avenue yes I did see the difference between what I do and I can go on we could keep talking I don't know how many guys I shot I killed two guys for sure on my property maybe three Danny Morel unlike some of the stories that said that never happened testified and he's on tape it'll be out in perfectly gangsta to Dino Finelli helped me get rid of the guns after we've seen tons of blood all over these are regular guys don't the guns for me testified also and did an interview on tape calming groan multimillionaire legitimate guy owns Tomatoes restaurant testified I did he was out the property Steve Locke Rotondo insurance man regular guy testified I did so you know when guys are talking at a line or out of school I hear it all the time so why is Sammy Gravano the underboss of family talking about me than that in that way why did Ronnie want on captain in a Gambino family I robbed all his book me because he was a one-time friend of mine I robbed Jojo Corrado at one time constantly of the family robbed his bookmakers what anybody get any retaliation against me I robbed two of them I put my name in his mouth and I taped it Steve Catalano was there he's still alive Johnny perks in jail even though I don't like the kid he was then he didn't want to come near the guy because the guy was too big so these guys are alive I couldn't go on why did Ronnie 100 in his own words and his opening statements a fight nights to Johnny a lady he'll kill me like he killed everybody else why did he say in a dozen times get his paperwork in his opening statement it's out all over the Internet then I'm John Gotti Jr's part I'm in the partners in a drug business over and over and over again he repeated it why did Stevie Newell guy I shot who I'm personally friends what now and we had a disagreement the god he said they were protect them I shot him did he say on tape you don't know Johnny hey don't shoot anybody anywhere and did and John Gotti Jr ratted on him write it on me or became a rat he called Stevie Iraq wasn't true why did Stevie Newell say that he sees captains in a Gambino family answer to me he grew up in our neighborhood so when guys talk and I hear these tough guys on the Internet and you got guys like Vito ghazal who's doing 30 something years he's been my enemy for years then I have him shot yes did he kill the guy I had him shot yes he did do I like him not not particularly do I know him since he's five six years old yes does he have the right to talk about me he does because he was a legitimate gangster whether I like it or not and he knows his own illegitimate gang said they tried to kill me seven eight ten times how many times these guys were on America's Most Wanted anything tobita Frankie for Adele oh there's a serious guys kill us but when you get guys like bigmouth there's a kid from my neighborhood Frankie JDC who's a punk what a big mouth never did anything and they talk like they ever did anything he never loaded a gun he's another guy only guys that talk like that you know they're about nothing but when at least if they're in the mix and you don't want his friend was getting hurt well we would collected money off him he ran he hid in front of a hundred six priests and these same guys that talk when they talk about my children my children ain't gangsters you got children too so when they talk out of school they're you know they're not about anything because guys that run their mouths they're nothing the guys at free togas oh who was a legitimate killer I didn't particularly like their crimes I didn't like a lot of those guys and that crew did some of them didn't like it either with Vinny what Vito was doing but you can say to yourself this guy is a gangster he can't talk there's a guy out of Brooklyn that's in the street still I know him since when kid I won't say it's only was Annie he was a kill a tough guy so he has the legitimate right to talk about the street but these guys that don't know what they're talking about because I can run those lists on and on and on of guys I shot baseball bat and I said I baseball bat at over a hundred guys instead did I do it well people say did it and there's a guy Johnny to test the fight for John Gotti junior high baseball bat at him by myself the three guys I just talked about by myself the Krzyzanowski brothers i baseball bat at two by myself the keegan brothers i baseball batter one them by myself I could go on that's why I said I mean I'm gonna say names this time to shut these people up they don't know what they're talking about or disrespect me because my life is different now the hard part for me is not to kill these guys that talk the easy part for me was killing guys and hurting guys why was it easy that's part of my life was like putting on a uniform and going around me whether I it's a crazy way of thinking when I signed up for his life I believed in it I don't believe in it anymore there's two things that ruin this life that people don't understand structure right and fear there is no more fear because they're asking people outside of the mob to do that killing from the do that [ __ ] the shooting for them weight structure and fear is what made it work or strong native wonder what it's what melee don't work why it doesn't work now is because I can name and I can see how I just named all the guys I shot instead then I could have kept going right you could see I could keep rambling these names that same guy this ain't the way I did that I can name family after family Joe Mussina acting boss boss excuse me of the Bonanno family became a rat John Gotti Jr became a rat al d'arco Lucchese family a rat Philadelphia mob Ralph Natali's rat Leonetti rat how you gonna have structure when all your bosses are right not only the bosses I can go down the line at captain's I can go to my keys cause became a cooperator I won't call him I ride Coco opera he was John Gotti juniors best friend he made statements I was there when we were setting up juries for Gotti senior why is he making that statement of home a nobody if I'm not this guy everybody says well why is he saying that Johnny a light he was there and we were gonna hit Curtis Lee when I denied it I said I'm not hitting a journalist we got enough guys we can hit and kill so why am i at weddings why I'm at the Gatti's wedding Wyman sisters so when people talk out of line they don't have a clue what they talk they have no idea the violence that we were living and what I personally did for the Gambino family in jails out of jails John let me ask you I'm listening to the way you say it you're saying it a way a baseball player would say you know game three playoffs round you know such-and-such I hit the double and it scored a winning run you know Game one opener against the Yankees I hit a you know home run and we ended up winning I went three for four the way you're saying it it's just so nonchalant is that a part of it where in your world there is it almost sounds it's like I don't want to say bragging rights but it's like listen I'm a real soldier here's what I really did because you lived in doubt I feel the competitive spirit that you have I feel the the the spirit of look I'm legit here's what I did I was a driven guy I was committed to the life and I wanted to come through and I'm not one of these guys that didn't that were afraid to be soldiers I did this part as well that's that's that that's the way it comes across are these things where for you during that part of the world you look at and you say I chose to live this life and I'm proud of the job I did is that kind of how you're processing it or no my father let me go back to my father my father taught me to be best at whatever I did so when I played baseball you have to beat me for me to back away from a guy come in a home plate when I was a little kid in a catcher there's no way I'm going to step away and so I tagged him when I was in the ring whether win or lose they put me in a ring one time with a kid that was destroying me my trainer wasn't there and it was you know just boring mm-hmm and I wouldn't I refuse not to go in the ring and he beat me all over the ring and then when I got involved with the mob I believe he's the thing that why I'm so adamant the way I talk and what I say and it's because I believed in the mob more than anybody I went against my family I went on the run because I didn't want to of anybody no mom I left all my money millions I left my children I stayed in a Brazilian penitentiary and I was gonna rot there I was willing to face it that sentence I lived in every country you could think of meanwhile my enemies and my friends like Gotti junior we're already cooperating so what I'm trying to do and it's so important for me to say I am the real deal I am the guy that did this it's not bragging and you know if maybe sometimes it comes off that way because I'm angry because I go around now I don't know if you know what I generate because I go around and I teach kids don't follow that's why I'm angry because I don't want kids to follow this life I don't want kids to understand and think that these guys are tough guys because in my book that I'm gonna do with Susan Pike I'm gonna come out with the next book this is darkest hour one I'm coming out with stalkers out two and three and the darkest hour - that's coming out in February I'm gonna put a scorecard like we doing sports when somebody gets just what you said how many hits or how many tackles I want to go through how many these guys never touched a gun in their life never did a killing Pete Gotti say never touched a gun you didn't kill anybody it's easy put to ask this kid to do the killing from it was easy to ask me to do the killing and the shooting and then when it's finished and all the trouble starts say he was nobody because they're gonna do it to the next kid that's why I'm so was saying or nobody whoever says it I'm saying it doesn't matter who saying what I'm trying to teach these kids is don't follow this life I'm here to tell you I lived this life I wrote a guy who was in this life making a ton of money this is a dead end way to live so it's very important to be very strong about the way I'm talking and what I've done and it's very important to let these kids know listen do not follow this this is a one-way street to nowhere and it's very tough to live that life today though you know - to have the mob life today it's very tough to live the life to this what not not as it was in the 80s no it's not as the 80s because they're not killing and they're not shooting and they're not baseball bat security well this is why I was talking about structure and fear right but you have guys all over street selling powder and pills and they think they're gangsters they put on a suit and tie they put on a cigar they put a cigar in their mouth and they think they gangsters and teaching these kids they could still do this and you can have a future but there is no future in this life there is no future in selling drugs there's no future in selling or hurting its this is why I said it's very easy to kill and hurt but the hard part is not to Jen what's your filing out what caused the fall I've read many different things and I've read both sides of the story you know and I called around just to kind of see what they're gonna tell me people that don't believe a single word that comes out of your mouth people that say this guy's legit and I've called names that you know some of the names you've mentioned just to kind of give that but they've asked me to not disclose the names for obvious reasons like if I were to call you and say hey what do you think about this this is what I'm sitting with yours what's the case with this guy what what caused a falling-out with you John and senior what what caused the follow not while you're coming up well it's very simple I mean anybody would an education can decipher what I'm saying a check right because I'm making statements with names I'm making statements of choice okay here's the falling out Frankie to Chico was killed did you see anybody get killed after Frankie got blown up no any Lina was killed by little Casey family by the road cops at bolito see anybody retaliate that no Bobby Borriello was killed in front of his house see anybody retaliate that no Joey scope what it was put in position to be an acting boss at a Colombo family by gaudí when he was murdered in front of his house any retaliation no my good friend great ride he was chopped up and left somewhere nobody had found his body while his father did life didn't give up God he's seen you could have never spent one day mark writer in prison and nobody did anything about it and in my belief they ordered it they okayed it they didn't order the murder of Greg write it but they okayed it and I could go on with that list little Anthony Medusa was killed over a dispute and I'm trying to think of bedrocks with the owner did anybody kill the guy that killed him regardless if the guy was wrong the right outlaws you can't put your hands on a made guy he killed him god I didn't do anything about it nobody did anything about it why not so we believe in nothing we believe in money and these kids think that this loyalty I just named every boss that's right I just named Sammy Gravano let's put out somebody in his shoes he was quiet he never got caught on tapes he didn't brag he didn't talk about murders that we committed in the past that it's it's all law if you do bring it up you're killed for it he didn't go against his boss he was a big moneymaker he was a family man he didn't run around like a lot of us they were woman he was a perfect gangster that guy was a perfect accident and he was quiet now he's known to be a rat right that's what the the journalists around the world projected a mess that's what the gangsters did but who's really direct this guy did everything from God he gave him up every which way and he didn't get a chance to kill Gotti maybe if he got a chance to he wouldn't ever spoke but instead he was in handcuffs gonna do ten life sentences because of Gotti's big mouths because he betrayed Sammy Gravano Sammy don't betray anybody wait wait did you just say if Sammy had the chance to kill God he would up of course he would have Raja beside do you think Sammy was a threat to Gotti because the street saw Sammy more as the power guy then got it because Sammy was getting all the context and relay like he could eventually be a boss or not no because Sammy didn't have an ego he had no aspirations to take over you didn't care to John what he did on one of your ball Oh Sammy I know is that known it was known because Sammy didn't have the ego Sam you stood back Sammy only cared about making money staying what is fair how much time did you spend with Sammy oh but he is I was he was always around like I was around I you know you walking with your buddies where you thought wasn't at all I was loyal to the Gottis so for me to say this I was a gaudy loyalist I wasn't a Sammy Gravano loyalist but you know if you're gonna speak about the mob and honestly in history history needs to be correct right it can't be somebody that's in love with the the romance of the Gotti story I mean you said something about the Gottis which is which is quite interesting you said anything that preserves Gotti Junior's image is glorifying the mob if you're glorifying the mob you're killing kids you're teaching kids to respect the coward you're calling John Gotti junior and senior coward is that is that what you're saying like they were cowards listen I'm calling all MCAT was the Gottis I'm calling Jeanne Gowdy account he was in jail with me he was my cellmate I slapped him around in jail I didn't slap around just talk yeah Teddy Persico was there call my person goes brother Mikey Spinelli and no one killer was there patty della ruse will make guys they're all that lets somebody ask him did I do it that I have Louis and Dino from GQ we used to call Rob Jeanne Gotti did have James Perry slap and throw a chair at him that I have mark Giuliani to it did we beat up and hurt ally Calabrese in jail you see him in the irishman they talk about he's a gangsters gangster nobody did nothing about it why not these guys were all there wasn't they everybody knows the story so when people say when they talk when they don't have knowledge of what they're speaking about but I'm speaking from facts and I ask people look it up Pete God he never used a gun never John Gotti see never killed anybody with his own hand John Gotti senior never never with his own hand it's easy to have somebody else do it here I'll give you go until you kill zero he's never zero how would you know that I know everything about him was he's dead where's everybody that's the part somebody may say he doesn't have you're going after a guy that's dead he can't defend them son gun all right he's dead let him come out this FBI alive but there's so many rats out there joe massino's a rat knows him his whole life all right why isn't he talking about al d'arco why is he talking about but there's a million guys out there that hung around all the guys had cooperated around the Gambino family nobody put a gun in got his hand to ever I was friendly with Willie boy Johnson before he cooperated well he was cooperating we all were and when he spouted off or Angelo Ruggiero spouted off they all said the same thing but I'm not I'm talking about facts because you have FBI information you have guys that ratted you have guys that stayed with him you have you have common Agnello never used a gun his brother-in-law he ran to Cleveland had a 16 count indictment they closed the courtroom what did he do to get out of it he got guns in his house I mean these are facts these aren't you know so when kids are looking up at these guys I'm some don't you open your eyes cuz I never opened my eyes until now and now that I have a voice I could save kids lives but but why why is the stone being told otherwise why why is a why is this story being told because isn't one of the criterias of being a made man you have to kill somebody isn't that one of the criteria so it's not know so you can be a made man and a boss and you've never killed anybody correct okay the second thing isn't one of the codes of being a mobster you can never talk to a government official FBI copy you can never do that never do that jr. sitting with the FBI make it thrilled to as where I'm sitting Brazil Penitentiary and he could give me 20 life sentences so tell me who betrayed who I'm in a jail I'm in a dungeon I'm getting he's saying he didn't say anything and nobody got arrested afterwards that's what he says that nothing happened that's what he wouldn't say you know you know yourself okay you find me one gangster because he could tell that the Republicans right only but we know our laws he sat with them he gave information against us he was an informant just like Willie boy Johnson and we all cop please Joe Watts had a cop to a murder Danny Moreno had a cop to a murder because of John's testimony and he refused to get on a stand against him he only wanted to feed information that's the truth he was locked up for the silver fox he stabbed a kid from behind as children it's an open murder he can never get locked up for it why not Kevin Bona testified against all of us great witness his girlfriend great witness they were all that there was Emily testimonies that they said they'd seen him stabbed and he admitted and tomatoey admitted he did it he stabbed him he killed him so why isn't he getting arrested for that murder what ask law enforcement get an explanation but I have his 302s we put in a book documents of what he was saying people he was giving up politicians he was giving up all the guys he was giving up he gave up his friends he put all the friends at a murder investigation that's still open that can is never closed and he put them all at that location so for him to say to the media first if he did say he did right actually on video said he ratted then he said he only ratted a little then he said he only ratted against his enemies and then he went back and said I was just trying to trick the FBI it's it's it's not even a conversation to have here at it it's stupid he sat with the government he made a deal he act up on the deal five different times but that's really not the the issue is not what he just did at that time of writing the issue is one after another these guys aren't using guns one after another these guys bosses not just the Gottis bosses around each family already and they're trying to take guys like me to do the killing to do the shooting to do the beating and say he's nobody and then use those kids to get life sentences for them and these guys walk away and they make deals on the side like God he did John how many how much time I I went away that somebody put in at six years for this three years but it's not true I want to wait for three and a half years for a gun I went away in Brazil for two and a half years I came home I did ten years here for this case I went in and out of jail for an assault in 1991 I went back in 2001 I went out again in 2002 back in jail so when these guys talk how much total time so I'll talk about 18 years and how come it's 18 years if you've killed so many people why are you not doing life because I'm the first guy to say when Gotti ratted they came when I came back to United States and whatever happens this one Brazil extradited a guy to me back and I got the paperwork of godî ratting when I was in Brazil they flew him they showed it to you they showed the constantly of the excuse me the constituion the family Joseph carazzo his son joke Rizzo was a lawyer defending ronnie true guilt at the trial in Tampa I was absentee Ronnie Juana's opening statement was given junior up because jr. was ratting he gave me up on a drug in because I gave permission they give me up but I didn't give him permission to give me up on murders and he started giving me up on murders but that information the whole family knows he's a rat he's been shelved he's been chased did people want to kill him of course they wanted to kill him will they kill him who know they don't know what information he gave well they kill who Junior junior because people had daisya life today today always he's always gonna have something's gonna kill him today well you listen it's Persico die cali died I mean it's calm well he's already killed but unfortunately he died cuz I really thought he was a decent guy that's what lot of people tell me they say is a really decent guy I I think the holy trying to turn it around well I I speak openly honestly you know faction of gentlemen they're quiet they don't bother nobody what they do for a living I can't judge them all I'm judging is when guys are telling guys put a pistol in your hair and tell the kid to kill I'm telling the kids don't go into the life I'm not telling an adult don't stay in that life I'm not how are you alive so you've killed all these guys I mean it's not a short list of people if you've had a baseball bat a hundred people you know if you do something to my family and I'm in that world I don't know how long you know so how come nobody has retaliated to you if you have this many numbers of hits how come you're still around you're a public figure you live in in New York it's not like you're living in Montana listen because I'm not P Gotti people know I'm vicious and if you come after me and you don't kill me they know that I'm gonna probably do something well I understand but that's it that's a pretty quick fix though right if somebody says so just make sure he doesn't live well who's gonna kill me P Johnny no he's I mean if he was out he's in jail know who Jackie knows you never used the gun either who Mikey's cause no he never used it got commenting no he never used the gun right you gotta go find so many years not asking this to try to create an event I'm asking this question too but if I was worried about that obviously I think III give you a lot of credit for that because and not that others who go and live in another place it's you know it's to look to each his own but you decide to stay in a place like that you know one that one of the things I was thinking about when I was looking at this I got a couple of the questions we'll go through here but one of the things I was thinking about when I was looking at this is sometimes the the person to be the most careful with and I and I want to preface it in a way and you can come back and answer it in any way you want I just wanna I just want to hear your thoughts on this sometimes say there's a kid who you know he's got a brother and the brothers born in America and he's not born in America but this kids more driven to be a president and this family the father is pressuring them to be a president one day and this brother knows no matter what he does he can't ever become a president even though he wants to be president Morton he wants to become a president but he can because he was born here this guy wasn't it's a law you can't do nothing about it right okay and sometimes this guy on this side who maybe have more qualities to be a president that his father wants him to be they want to make father proud right here I want to be the guy that become comes through and leaves a legacy for your last name pops you came here from another country I'm gonna do my part Germany whatever you want to talk about it in the book 40 laws of power I don't know if you've read the book 40 laws of power Robert Greene law number one never outshine the master right do you think there was a little bit of that spirit felt about you or no that wasn't at all because did they kind of get a feel enough tension to say this guy's a little too ambitious you know and was that kind of your frustration to say you know if I can't go out there and you know get all the way to the top screw it I'm gonna go out there and throw everybody under the bus how much of it was that and again if you completely disagree I'd love to hear your views on this you know what I'm saying yes I right you gotta understand in any aspect of life envious people and jealous people are dangerous people right so when they see that I was successful they see I was making money they see I was dangerous they see then I had a big crew of people more than Gotti's counties didn't have it John Gotti Jr if you can find me a killer that was around him besides Bobby Borriello cuz Bobby was killed but he Robbie wasn't a kid that could go on a street and baseball John you were saying you were bigger than God he's senior in June you know no no I'm not saying that you seen you had a ton of guys junior didn't have guys junior had not assured around them but I was making more money than a senior no no okay so what out what up the question I'm asking is was their level of envy from you towards them no not at listen see all I used the only the respect level is this as you're getting older you're intelligent unless you're a dummy and you just follow blindly yeah but you start seeing I was betrayed by them so yeah there is I was loyal to the mob they betrayed me there's no way you could turn around the fact that John Gotti Jr met with the government in 2003 or four and then he signed papers a year later 2005 he can't change that that's a fact that's when he was in and that's when I was in the penitentiary in Brazil you can't correlate he can't so he can try till he's dead you can't correlate whatever I did for what you did you did this five years earlier so I don't know how he's even trying to correlate whatever he did his actions the rest of the mob knows he's alright okay now did I come in after that yes did Ronnie wanna cooperate no but did he give a statement said he was afraid I'd kill him like everybody else of course he did what kind of statement is that so that's okay well the guy that comes in and he's not the only guy Mikey scars cooperated captain and I just said him once we realistic you go to shore so why am i loyal to a life of Italians when I'm all Banyon and they're not loyal to their own life so this is and they given me up at the same time and while my guys had given me up and other guys in Who am I being loyal to because they're not being loyal to themselves so what do I owe them they owe me nothing when I left my family they owed me nothing what I stood nose penitentiaries and it wasn't rat on my enemies I wasn't right on anybody I left everything to be true to that life that I believed it but one after another made guy after a made guy are giving me up and given information against other made guys and bosses I'm not just talking about just on the links or made guys I'm talking about who's who's gonna deny the fact that these guys are writing like crazy was it public when you retired in 99 or no like did you tell them ambarita because you said you retired in 99 99 1999 that you retired Lord in 99 I got a jail 2000 right in 2000 I don't know if I said I'd retired or didn't retire I was stolen him all your stolen a mob yeah so in 2001 when you was there recording you heard with you and your uncle where they said you know he's he's not a made man he's a skip or something like that is there is there something with that recording your with your uncle or no there was a recording you're talking about Stevie Newell's incident yes and I there was a meeting with John Gotti junior Stevie knew it's joined Gotti junior excuse me stayed across the street was sending messages back and forth to comment Agnello Pete Gotti was involved and talking about hitting me I shot Stevie knew the guy they supposed to be protecting and they asked Stevie knew can you kill Johnny a light it's it's a joke you're asking the guy I just shot that he's supposed to be protected to kill me why don't you kill me you just said you're gonna protect this guy and I told you go [ __ ] yourself when I shot him how did you hear about that they wanted to put it I didn't hear about I said that to him because the FBI came to my house and said there was a death threat on you we have to report it so instead they said are you gonna tell them and this was in about 94 but he said are you gonna tell the guys I said yeah yeah and I went and I and I switched the story to them and I said I heard a recording you guys were gonna kill me so at that same story I says well I just robbed Joe Kane that you supposed to be protected and I stabbed him a second time his did nothing I took Ritchie Gotti seeing his brothers son in law I beat him to death on the street he lived because the guy skipper from Bonanno family saved his life the same guy that's bringing him to me set him up from me brought him to the hospital Ronnie chill Enzo they did nothing I shot my cousin that was God he said don't pay the cop for payoff fee he did nothing I robbed two booked bookmakers around them they did nothing I beat his uncle up in jail they did nothing I beat up Ally Calabrese in prison with other guys and these are what they did nothing they don't do nothing but then they went ratted on me so you had your chance to kill me over and over again how many things can I do these places but when they change that story so when when Charles came to me and we can go on story after story and if he's so loyal to gaudí right why is he robbing papaver a funeral home with me Charles goodnight why are you robbing it with me in two thousand and whatever year we did it one two three something like that we robbed the funeral home of John Gotti's main guy he was buried that he had his funeral there I didn't give a [ __ ] he was alive actually we robbed in a 94 excuse me God he just went to jail so from this guy that don't care about thing and why is a made guy running around with me robbing things if he doesn't answer to me if he doesn't respect me if he's that they don't think I'm nothing why are you robbing why you have no respect for the God he's doing that with me why you helping me give me guns to shoot my cousin that's around Ross from the Genovese family and he's running a bread union with him why why you coming given me a machine gun in a 9-millimeter killed John Gotti junior Pete Gotti and commenting nello if that's not true get the guys that testified against me one was my cousin and knows about it and well Kubo cool Benelli has I put the guns in his safe he's a tattoo a guy in an a but he's still around if it ain't true well Andrew DiDonato that wrote a book about it said Nicky carazzo told him yeah but he didn't mention it he didn't always mean I was gonna do it and I wouldn't give the guns back so why why are they so afraid of me if I'm this junkie nobody right so this is the the point is I ran through these guys and they never did anything and my message is still the same that's the past I'm a different guy now if I wasn't I would be retaliating against guys when they talk so much the way I used to now I send the message my life has changed I'm the same guy I mean don't get me wrong if somebody tries to hurt me I've gotta protect myself but my message it's a kid's day and night it's gonna be the kids to stay away from this life when did you cooperate was it oh five when you cooperate it no I cooperated when I came back about oh seven oh seven it was five it was oh seven yeah it was uh oh seven articles say 2005 no no it was a seven Brazil penitential okay God also operate in 2004 for 2004 I'll come back like three or four years later and I saw an officially about five years later what's the story would one you went to court to testify this one one of the jury members Paul Paragon Perry John however you want to pronounce I want to hear your views from this almost the entire jury didn't believe the star witness yourself he wasn't credible at all what it what is this all about written about in different places first of all this guy's you know we use terminology as a mob pump so he's a mall yeah why would you go out to dinner with Gotti after the trial why'd you go socialize one for that's first off second I can't control what all the witnesses stay on it say on the stand you know if somebody says something different that they didn't hang around us like Peter Cetera he's you know he's a big mouth he worked with me he stayed with me he was gonna set up the murder of Pete Gotti junior Gotti and carmine Agnello but his brother was is that his brothers a tough guy these guys used to come visit me in prison or whatever so when he says something at that on the stand I can't control what he says I he never came to our clubs actually Johnny can accept me to hurt him too when he first came home and what says they Privett was that they provide owns a junkyard Bechet stayed in the old Shea Stadium he was there when I went pro so when these guys are talking I can't change but here's one of the reasons why this jury didn't believe me because there's guys witness after witness saying I'm too dangerous on all the trials get the paperwork that this guy can't control me partially they all right he can't control me and everything but I do work for the Gambino family so their view is I'm lying because no one's controlling me because Joel Kane got on the stand saying one thing Johnny another kid gets on the stand saying God he never did anything a lights crazy he baseball bat me Stevie Newell's getting on the stand say Johnny they chopped me Ronnie won I'm saying I'm scared Johnny a lights gonna kill me I'm a captain a Gambino family so what is the jury gonna say they say this guy's a maniac out of control since I came home the Gotti family this is a fact the Gotti family wrote my parole the whole family wrote I don't know how many letters to my parole wrote to my paroles boss rody right judge 2013 14 yeah God he had his right to write them and say I'm a killer and I'm gonna kill somebody in the Gotti family they need to lock me up you're gonna kill somebody in the family Edie I'm gonna kill the brother or somebody in their family they need to lock me up I violated my parole every gangster around the streets active and not active still in touch with me I'm in the drug business I'm still in the construction business and I'm a nobody but everybody from every crew is getting in touch with me so what are these letters and God himself and his lawyers wrote a letter in to the judge saying that he feared for his life and his sister wrote a letter in 1992 he doesn't have the stomach for the mob world so but my thing with the God exists it's not about the guys it's about the Gambino family the thing about correlating John Gotti junior becoming a rat in 2004 2005 has completely nothing to do with me while penitentiary in Brazil I'm just curious how they keep trying to correlate him riding and me coming in after the fact four three four or five years later the correlation doesn't even make a little sense who's behind a website who's behind a website on Gotti junior how certain are you abet a hard you beside the guy Chris Kasper Rosa said he works for John Gotti junior the guy who runs the website as he works with John Gotti junior this is very similar to what the scientist I'm sorry I don't mean to cut you off no it's okay my Google and read my Wikipedia he controls it he locked it he changed the the the writing of what was on Wikipedia who did John Gotti Joanie with Chris Kasper OSA was Elaine even rewrite on it if you want when's the last time you were in contact with John Gotti junior I was in Long Island at a diner when I first came home thirteen thirteen I had a meeting there were a couple guys and six police calls came and they were for me to God he called up and said that he had fear that I was gonna kill me that he lives around a corner somewhere I don't know if that's true him or no nine and Sam and then the letters started coming into my parole that I left my area and I've been in different areas in New York and I didn't not allowed to leave New Jersey Philadelphia area so the the thing that's is is mind-boggling to me is the way he won't let this go I even gave up social media beacon four years ago because I'm not gonna play these kid games with him forever you know so but the answer is still back to the same thing how are you correlating if he became a rat anything to do with me would you like to face off with them not not fight face off and have a conversation with the would you want to sit down I'll sit here tomorrow with you get him on yeah when we're gonna talk him about I will start with his father so we don't have to talk about him we'll talk about his father I want to know when did he ever use a gun I want to know when a gun was in his hand besides that fantasy story he told in his book that his father left Green Haven or one of the prisons and it's two marshals would only went to a dentist office he went out the back door so he had about 30 people that were witnesses that he was brought to it that so he went out the door he did a murder that's the best he could come to a murder for his father it's the the kids got to know the kids got it was his father me strange somehow was his father a gangsta hundred percent was he from the screen a hundred percent did he have a lot of guys killed a hundred percent was he a big earner no was he degenerate gambler yes was he a tough guy yeah it was a street guy he was - was he a killer with his own hand no did he have killers around them yes he had a ton of killers around him Bobby Borriello was one of John Aitken Elia was one of them and he lino was one of them Joe Watts was a big one Sammy Sammy without a doubt these are guys the most out of all of those guys Sammy and Joe Watts without a doubt without a doubt what out of Johnny's was tough for him too but without a doubt at the peak when you were on Sammy what was a different energy you felt from Sammy then you felt about the senior senior even as a kid senior one in a timid eight you right so I've got your street he wanted you know you know and as a kid I was intimidated I would be allowed to say well sure you know I was intimidating I was impressed by him but then as you growing and you understand the world it's like going to kindergarten you work your way up to college when I looked at Sammy you see complete confidence he walked with confidence he didn't try to stay he down he said hello we didn't try to intimidate you eight K and even to today if you ask him when he met me he doesn't know and of course he doesn't know because I was a kid he met me at the clubs he said he said hello but he doesn't specifically remember conversation cuz I'm a nobody I'm a kid growing up and he's you know he's on the boss so why would he pay attention it's like guys that say they know me and I don't remember him because I'm in a different level you're not gonna remember these guys he but he was always a gentleman and as time went on yes he seen me more and he said a lot more but if you asked him specifically what do we talk about he won't remember I remember because to me it was a big deal just like it was a big deal talking to God he's seen you but then you learn and you decipher hey is this guy a good leader when you start watching people that are good leaders through history whether it's in law enforcement like we talked about Rudy Giuliani right highly intelligent guy good leader he he Testament he did the Mafia but he made a statement I did an interview down and obey about the five families and the interviewers very famous guy down there in the Balkans blending said that God he's seen you had a gun on him and I left I said you're wrong and he says well that's what Rudy Giuliani says all due respect to Rudy Giuliani and I have a lot of respect friend is he wasn't in a car but Sammy Gravano was and there was no gun in got a slap on hands on a jacket he had no intention to get not at a car no matter what he was just gonna send Sammy out Sammy had the gun so it depends on where this information is coming from Phil Baroni right and I'm gonna slide back for a second was one of the guys who was an ex-detective that testified in Gatti's trials and he and this is the reason may be a problem with somebody's juries and he said he didn't know when we were going to kill Georgie Grasso this is the detective that lived up the block from me this is a detective that when I moved to Cherry Hill New Jersey two hours away he moved next door to me this is the detective that went to Mexico with me he's my bookmaking partner with me he's selling drugs with me he's doing armed robberies with me but he didn't know I was gonna shoot this guy in a head who the [ __ ] is gonna believe that who's stupid enough to believe that so if a jury thinks because he's saying he didn't know and Peter said Kara the other guy saying I he met me in McDonald somewhere and I said I don't even know where as a McDonald's we met in Burger King for a different occasion whatever store use these guys had tell him there's only difference between my stories in them and his minds are truth and I don't say I didn't kill these guys I don't say it it shoot these guys I don't say I ain't involved in baseball batting these guys but when these guys want to insult somebody and say you're only on vacation with me Phil Baroni couldn't get further up my ass you're a detective that ran around with that badge with me and we did everything together for 20-something years you were giving us information when Jeanne Gotti and Johnny Koenig had a problem you get an information that John Gotti senior and Sammy were gonna get pinched when they got pinched in 90 where was that information come from was come from Phil Baroni where did he get it from so when these guys are talking on Morgenthau his driver there's returnees driver Jimmy I'm in his house why am i able to describe your whole house if you're not involved with me what the [ __ ] was I doing in your house these are the you know it did his lawyers do a good job yeah I used a good job he had a lawyer John Verrilli Oh fantastic attorney every time he walked in I said oh this guy again not because you're lying because you know they're gonna pick you apart they're intelligent so when you're understanding we can't have these conversations of course they gotta pick you apart there and they're going and they're getting paperwork and I'll give you an example I had tons of paperwork from Brazil extradition and it was fighting my case Marco this guy I sent them 750,000 he stole it he denied it a buddy of mine put all the documents with the money transfers to Brazil and he showed he stole the money Gotti was friends with God he had him do a video but God he doesn't tell everybody this guy when I was locked up facing life in the death sentence took all my paperwork and sent it back to United States government to give me a life sentence my god his behalf so when I'm on the stand they said they got all my papers did you say this yes is this part true no is that part true no is that part's true no I'm lying because back then I wasn't cooperating so I says that's when I was a gangster this animals gonna beat my cases yeah I did order a murder from Brazil where you gonna kill this guy from Brazil that's all in a suite but I'm trying to say yeah you could take that paperwork some of its real someone's fake I'm trying to save my life now I'm honest and testify against the guy who I called Whitey Bulger you gave me up would you think was I fool I was gonna say I'm gonna go to jail and do ten life sentences for a guy that had my best friend from college Timmy Donovan testify against me cuz you said to so he did and he testified for you when you have the Accardi brothers the famous Crawford County family John and Jason and the father testified against me because gaudí said they could or you have Robert lamendola testify against me because God he said he could well Joel can't give fake information understand because he said so or Johnny the car thief that I baseball bat it cuz John Gotti said so I could go through someone seems that he told everybody testify against me they couldn't kill me so this was the way they were gonna kill me he was right on me so when I came back and I got all the paperwork and I found out everybody's testifying against and giving me up then yes I did come in and I never hid the fact I'm not like everybody else I said you'd think that betrayed me I didn't betray anybody so when I came in it was years after John was in it was years after Mikey scars was it it was years and Captain it was years and if at daum was given given people it was a made guy these are all Gotti's guys they were all talking I'm not talking I left my family I left my money I went penniless I lived in Cuba I lived in Colombia I lived in Africa not to rat so when these guys switching this dates can't lie paperwork can't lie the only difference is I've always been a man I stand on my two feet so when I came in I come in and I don't hide the fact he's betrayed me I owe you nothing it's interesting listening to these stories you know for me I've interviewed a few CIA agents one of the one we interviewed she was the chief disguise officer of the US government so she would disguise faces and she went to Bush one time she disguised the face Bush can recognize and she took the mask off saying how great of a disguise this was she married another CIA agent because they met each other in the business I said let me ask you a question how do you how do you believe each other she says it's a very good question I said because both of you are trained to lie for good reason right because you lie to protect your countries so if you sit down with a Russian operative you're not gonna tell every story you're gonna lie as much as you can right so so how does one when when sitting and you hear all these stories somebody who's not in the world you'll just listen to the stories you hear so many different sides and everybody sounds convincing well you have to take like I just said you have to take Ronnie 1 on his opening statement why did he say that why do you say he fears I'm gonna kill him you're a captain why would the guy I shoot say he see ya guys from the Gambino family skipper's answered why would you have the underboss of the Gambino family say he was our hit man for the Gambino family specifically for the Gottis he was there strong why would you have my key scars the skipper John Gotti joined his best friend right hand men say I'm there during these conversations why would I be in Gatti's wedding why am I on a list given him five thousand at the Helmsley Palace was only a handful of gangsters around the world there why am I in sisters what a me this is very simple it's not my word why am i saying he's a rat I have the paperwork I come in years later after they already [ __ ] me so this is not this is steppin it's not my my word this is step by step when I was on the stand I couldn't show pictures of Phil Baroni because they were in my house the detective that claimed all this nonsense so explain to me who is it what do you think the odds are a billion to one five billion to one that this detectives selling drugs with me robbing with me bookmaking with me moves next door to me in Cherry Hill all the real estate in the world you came to Cherry Hill to sit next to me what are you doing at my house every day how many pictures you want cuz after this week I could give you pictures what is Carmine Agnello right never shot a gun in his life 16 count indictment disappears in the courtroom closes do we have to be geniuses to understand what he did so you know I'm not asking anybody to believe what I'm saying just look at the facts why these guys talk alike yeah who do you trust today do you do are you easy to trust people today or after a life like this I mean you're you're 57 years old how do you trust anybody today you know do you see people and you say I think you're 56 to be exact September 30 years your birthday yes so who do you trust yourself today listen you don't live there like you said treacherous life so who do you travel guys like you legitimate guys that have no agendas that'll respectful purely agenda and friends like my friends as friends of mine that I grew up since were kids that are attorneys court stenographers with five years old my friend my friend Michael Jacobs I know him since he's five years old these guys have no agendas but friendship they're not weasels with money they're not calling somebody trying to set me up from behind my back they're not guys that are dying to make their name themselves off me and you got that I'll call up and I'll give you an example a guy calls me out of nowhere fake number and he tells me he's part of a crew Albanians I don't talk against Albanians I try not to kill veins at hurdle beans in my life and he claims he's involved in a crew well Baines that went to jail and he said some choice words for me so I told him you know why I says I'm gonna give you 15 seconds this is what I'm gonna do feel I said first if you all who you are I know you're a dog Isis because while your friends are on prison what are you doing home it's a second if they had no evidence against you when all your friends got went to prison because they challenged the Gambino family why didn't you go kill anybody for them I said yeah you're talking like a killer but you're not a killer because you're not in jail with them you didn't get revenge for them and any of those guys on that case as much as I don't want to disrespect them they didn't kill anybody so one of these guys get off talking or even questioning me well my life when they have no knowledge of it so I have no business questioning your life or disrespecting you in any which way unless I was involved with you or unless I told you I used the name earlier Vito ghazal because like him or leave him like or disagree with his cruel crimes and they try to kill me and in reports all the guys that cooperated said they try to kill me ten times so they have the right to talk about me because we were in throwing back and forth trying to kill each other shoot each other robbing each other so they do have the right even if I disagree I personally give them the respect either way if I like this but I respect them there's a difference like in sports like anything but when guys are talking out of school that don't even understand this life and they get on a chat and they want to feel important with especially when guys reach out to me and talk they're only talking because this is a night this isn't 1985 or 86 or 87 or 90 or pro/5 we all of course okay so the biggest mistake anybody ever made in life is when they challenge and threaten somebody because that's usually when you talk to a serious guy that you can have an issue now with me I don't take them serious because if they were if they this energy there's a lot of guys out there there don't like me right a lot of guys out they want to kill me but they're not on the internet talking about it those are the guys I got to worry about not these idiots ought to be trying to get attention sure so you got a guy like Johnny Burke I'm gonna use him he's got a life sentence this is a guy that was around the Rosie onyl family it was a drug addict got baseball bounded by carmine and John Gotti Jr did nothing about it this is a guy to let his family sit in the street with no money didn't buy him a house I had to give him 60,000 to buy a house this is a guy that left Citrus County Jail twice to go meet with the prosecutors he didn't go to Disney World and try to make a deal this is a guy whose mother threatened us in 2001 if we didn't give him money he was gonna rat this is a guy that got run over by Brendan Cabot and did nothing about it said a hospital and he came running it to me can you help me this is a guy that was with me on the robbery in Valley Stream when I robbed Joe Joe carazzo and Ronnie wants bookmaker that refused to come he was scared this is a guy whose brother married a police officer but calls everybody a rat this is a guy who they did the whole house of an FBI agent for free and when his brother were meeting with him but he calls everybody or at this is a guy who teaches his kids to talk just like him and this is the problem why I keep doing these shows for kids because don't follow these guys they're full of [ __ ] they ain't about nothing and this is a guy that Maddy I won't say his last name shot him in the throat because he talked too much Johnny Burke this is a guy in jail that was getting shaken down and it's Citrus County when he came to the jail I was at I got him in a sally port and I told him I know your rat he cried this is the same guy that's talking on internet sand and because they can Google they can use the internet now from prison this is a guy that if I told him to do anything I wanted he would've did it and said please can I do it again so when they able to talk on internet sand computers because it's a different world but no one's talking about this and his family doesn't know all this stuff but his mother knows that you and I made guys that are cooperating Patsy adriano Dave del pino Peter said Carol made every one of them before all these cases come go pay his mother before he snitches any right sauce and this is a guy in 1994 got out of trouble for a state case and I gotta that we will question how he got out and I can go on you know with more stories about them so when these guys talk the problem is their mouths not just you know they're not so shut you can't stop them from talking so they want to change the storyline what happened this is the first guy that rolled out all these guys so when his sister or somebody's talking I don't even blame them because they're hearing it from him when we got EES kids are talking cuz I tell my kids shut your mouth - mind your business about my life using regular kids if any gangster wants to be a gangster still with me I'm very accessible I don't leave New York so if you still think you're that killer then you're allowed to take a shot jump like we used to stand Street right you froggy take a jump leap so were you talking about kids for I don't want to talk about anybody's kids so you know I make this very easy for anybody it still says the gangsters just what you said it's over but if they wanted to be a gangster go ahead you know what you're gonna end up you're gonna life if that's you're trying to get a name off yourself we're talking about different life today like fear and structure was the key and those two things when you lose those two things it's tough too tough to control so you know the whole part you said something you said uh I'm trying to change my life but you also don't believe certain things change about a person right like you comment something about change you've lived this life for a while how do you I know you said something you had a hard time going to sleep at nights you're still having a scene therapist sometimes talking to some people you know to kind of be able to flush it out it's not like you only did it for a year two years three years you you live this life for some time how are you I opted to stay changed because I was diagnosed with PTSD I don't hide that fact was I try to help soldiers and all the people have been diagnosed with it I don't hide the fact that I see a therapist I don't hide the fact I'm like an alcoholic I said it over and over again it's easy for me to hurt somebody who kill someone that's an easy part for me it's easy I don't say anything different the hard part is not doing it when they talk crazy and talk stupidness so you have to work at things right so I get through it date each day so today I got through today I worry about tomorrow tomorrow but I'm not gonna change who I am so Who I am this I don't need to call 10 guys and the reason why I said when I baseball batted this guy and I say who's there and by myself when I shot these guys I'm by myself because I want people to understand I don't need 20 guys to feel strong and I didn't need a hundred guys to say I'm cooperating now because they betrayed me I just ran through this the mob betrayed me I didn't betray them so not gonna switch that on me I'm not one of these dumb guys I was educated college educated street educated I'm college educated yeah I went to college also so I think graduate the four years but I went to college three years so I'm educated I understand life right and I understand if John Gotti junior ever turned around and learned to be a gentleman shook my hand and said let's forget about the past because there's a ton of guys out there that tried to kill me that I'm friends with now the guy Stevie knew that he planned on killing me and I shot him what friends because there's a level of respect again I'm going to go back to level respect but when you want to [ __ ] the public and yourself and throw your garbage on me and you're not man enough to say this is what I did I'll never be your friend I'll never respect you so when you turn around and you be a gentleman and say okay this is what happened I couldn't take the life anymore yeah I did cooperate I'm good with it I don't care I'm not gonna hold nothing against you because I moved on there's guys that robbed my money big big money like that kidding Marco 750,000 I don't go looking to kill him you still miss the lights do you still miss any of it anybody it says they don't miss the life at my opinion it's been in their life like we are is Alaia I think we all missed a life but the only difference is we get older we get smarter we understand there is no loyalty and I think you miss like we all say camaraderie and all that and I joke about I said well join a bowling team so if you missed a camaraderie but I know that this life of what I thought it was as a young man as a kid does not exist so you know my friends that I when I am together what my friends are the guys I grew up with and we go to the beach or we go as families I don't miss the mob when I'm with them because again now you with real friends and you don't got to look over your shoulder and I don't got to worry about getting in a car and I don't got to worry about anything with them and that you know there's no treachery his only true French and love for each other than our families and this is the part the kids really got to understand because I know I was there I know that it's enticing right and all this is enticing but just what you said I'll be allow you to tell you you know Ralph allah tala from philly said i sleep like a baby and do I like Ralph either all right guy but I said he's full of [ __ ] because I don't I think if you talk to anybody's been in the Armed Forces seen action or anybody from the streets or a police officer that did shootings you're not sleeping you're a lion it's just not possible you just you know because subconsciously it is guilt and you know you ask me it seems like I don't care earlier I do care that's why I go to therapy all the time I did get in touch with so you just for information you in the public I got in touch with tons of my victims some would talk to me some wouldn't I cried with some and somebody didn't but this show is not about how I feel this is not about my personality of you know regret nobody wants to hear that because and at that point doesn't mean anything if they do it don't it does to me of the families I need to speak to independent the families I need to apologize or the families but again and I'll be a lawyer if I see anything different I'm still the same guy so that means if somebody busted in this room right now and try to hurt us you're still capable of course there'll be a life I said well what's the story that Jake you did on your GQ magazine did a story on you what was it about GQ talk to me about I did a Netflix series and this was just a month ago just yeah I did a Netflix thing that's coming out and you spoke to me about that it's about five families and this is also about is five families with the author the the the the same guy that wrote the book five families no okay got it and it's just the yeah yeah I mean there's a notebook out now actually Gatti's boys with the Tony DeStefano actually you know I talked to him and I skimmed through the book I've been right at all and it's pretty good book so you know it's a different perspective he speaks about me and some of the pretty accurate there's some accurate what I read is some of its accurate someone does not you know I called him on one of them and it's a you know he was talking about Mark Ryder and I was you know somebody said because of my age you know he doesn't believe I was wearing and I said to him you know what's funny I said and I said listen you're never gonna get a book completely factual Isis mock right I took him on a run what do you want it's a Disney World I took him when he went to California I took him with a woman Rose Marie Fanelli and we helped him get apartments and he went all the places so when they talk they don't really have the facts and you know I love that family and I feel terrible for whatever happened to his life and he lost his son and his son was a great friend of mine and you know they never found the body and you get guys like my other friend and this is the treachery they life Keith Pellegrino since he's a kid he was one of my drug partners I know my god him guys wanted to hurt him I saved him the same guy that stayed with us knew about Greg's murder and never told us and hid it from us and was involved with one of the guys who was involved in murder that's the treachery of the life and he's not a tough guy Keith he actually he was a punk you know so if it wasn't for me protecting him he would end up dead so how do you do that to one of our friends right so this is why I'm saying the kids get away from this life go play baseball go to school go become a lawyer go become a truck driver do something legitimately do what you're doing journalism but don't end up on the street because there is no true friendships there and and and I would say you know a lot of times people ask me they say why do you what do you interview people in this world and I said you know first of all I did the interview community the mobster community came purely accidental obviously I grew up with a lot of the history of its study in it you know the whole Godfather's you know it's a very if you ask any CEO entrepreneur a lot of people will say one of the most powerful movies you can wash you learn about business The Godfather wanted to maybe not three but you can learn a lot of our business and it gives different perspectives on what you can do with business but but if there's one thing about it is hearing all these different stories and knowing there's always a power play to be done and if you are too naive like you said earlier and you're not antis anticipating next move and making notes of certain people's behavior in some strange moments it could catch up to you that could happen in business just like it is in your world the differences in your world you could get killed in a business world you put out a business well I talked early about this kid Frankie I heard right we'll use an example I like the guy it was nothing personal the the Johnny Canoga and John Jeanie at the time asked me to hurt him over the drug business but the thing is I like them I respect him he and he was legitimately a tough kid he's a big kid six-five would have his friends tough guys left them left them and they didn't retaliate with him afterwards and they didn't try to him now they're talking these same guys had the opportunity and this is why I'm telling kids not even just one end the other guys I even hurt well guys you know I respect you I'm trying to say even the guys like that look what's going on on to them where's their friends when they needed them there was a made guy at the time Jerry Sarah was with him standing what I mean I don't get lost or I'll hurt you too and he walked his father just got a done basically life sentence for me Sarah they accused him of the environment would deal with dozens of stuff and so but his son so and his on the front Frankie now is an enabled what a big mouth where were you when he needed you where were you coming now 30 years later when we're all retired where were you when we were all loading guns and I say that forget about shooting the gun these guys never loaded the gun Louis it was a water pistol so I'm trying to say the same thing over and over and over again right much as I can these kids need to understand stay away from this life because they don't they think just like I did as a kid and it's very hot prestige you know the whole thing you know the movie Goodfellas and you go out and the ladies and you know the cars and all that stuff what's your part of it is true I mean when I talk to a lot of these guys listen you guys have partied hard you guys have had a lot of fun own the hottest nightclubs around I had everything but I'm going to tell you when I sat in that cell alone it was all over every one of my friends in that life started ratting on me all of them like 50 guys 50 something I usually they all went to the grand juries on me you can check with Florida prosecute Middle District of Florida and asking because when these conversations started I think was 54 was the number actually that ratted on me all these mob made guys ratting on me when all the money was gone so it was all the woman sure so was all everybody else and so was my even my other friends that were the street that weren't killers but they were you know playing around on street with drugs and there was nobody near me I was alone in a Cell and I'm gonna tell you like I tell everybody cuz if you're gonna be fake you can't talk to kids and you're sitting in that cell and you're crying and I like when somebody said did you cry yeah I'm a man I'm not a robot of course I cried and I said well you did this you did that I'm not asking anybody feel bad for me I said that's not why I'm saying it I'm saying it to kids so they understand right that this ain't all about that and when your kids aren't seeing you and I didn't see some of my cry for kids I didn't see two of them for 10 years you know so I just agreement with the mom and I'm a mom and I'm friends would have now is a very conciliation she's remarried but this is the reality of the life that the kids got understand and when my uncle died he was like my father I lived with him in California I didn't see him I never get to say goodbye to him and you know you're sitting in that cell and you're crying you're right and this times when you're crying so no one is saying to me well poor you well [ __ ] you you know because I know people on this sure and I'm not asking anybody say father poor me I'm not asking anybody this is my life I stood on my two feet and I gotta accept everything but the reality of a kid that wants to go on the street is I need to tell you you're gonna cry and if you say you're not I know tough guys kill us I mean killers ain't never getting out of jail and I got a ton of friends that are on the street still in jail and and off the streets so people say well I seen him with this guy I don't like say I don't know them anymore a lot of them are my friends still I just ain't involved with them anymore I'll have lunch with him around the world I'm talking about gangsters in and out of jails I got a ton of friends in jails I got fan guys that could write me on a constant basis I said I shouldn't use the word fan Isis cuz I respect them for writing me from jail and they tell me we wish we could be man and I'll do what you're doing and I said took me a long time to be a man like this it's easy doing the other stuff I'll say it over again easy to shoot and kill this is the hard part to admit all this stuff and try to get convinced some kids if you could save one or two this is terrible time to want to live that life because you got 300 million cameras everywhere you got 300 million cameras everybody's going live everything is recorded everybody's walking on with a record so terrible time to do it but watch the news right and I'm not even talking about gangsters criminals doing dump [ __ ] and they notice a camera then they still do it and then almost saying cheese on the camera now walking that's what I'm saying to you they did obviously there's a lot of fools but one of the great equalizers I believe of getting people to not want to go in that direction of a life is social media I think that's that's done the social media and smartphones have change again John what book are you currently working on that we can share with our audience if there was one book we could share which one would it well it's this is Susan Pike with me is a called darkest hour there's gonna be serious talks out two and three okay this was a set up book after Gotti's rules because I did got his rules with Georgia Anastasia and the set up book we don't really talk about my childhood this is a set up book for two and three and two and three I'm gonna really get into all these things I'm talking about shootings I'm gonna get into more but this book different than the first Gotti's Rules is I'm gonna list just like I did names I just did know and I'm gonna make sure that there's gonna be people that were there witnesses from somebody wants to contact see the truthfulness contact and then I'm gonna do a scorecard of every gangster I mentioned in that book how many armed robberies they did how many actual shootings they did themselves a community are you gonna piss off a lot of people if they're alive you're gonna piss off a lot of those well it's going to be interesting for them to come back and say that's not true I did this you had this many say if I say carmine Agnello I'm gonna use him because he had a big mouth right he is right the brother-in-law yeah and he ran to Cleveland and his courtroom got shut down in a 16 count indictment that does not go away and I guess somebody could talk to Julian Eric to the sister yeah yeah his life so was all the son get balls up and get it gonna come looking for me so you know to me I'm just gonna bring out let these guys and if you want to do the right thing maybe you should talk to your kids and tell them the same thing and other kids let's not follow this life because I got nothing against any of their kids I you know I hope that kids don't ever follow us and I hope my kids do the same and I've had problems with one of my sons so you know the reality is break the cycle rice is a terrible time to want to go down life terrible time to want to go that route John again thank you for flying out to Dallas to do this sit down we're gonna put the links to both of the books as well as the GQ article and if you want to find out more about his books or the article go to the link below we're gonna put every single one of the links on how to find out more about John a lights book both the gaudy rules as well as the darkest hour once again thanks for coming out thank you too pal yeah preciate you you

Channel: Valuetainment

Views: 5,629,525

Rating: 4.6879582 out of 5

Keywords: Entrepreneur, Entrepreneurs, valuetainment, patrick bet david, john gotti hitman, john alite, john alite mafia, darkest hour john alite, john alite albanian

Id: sBvKTO-VyK4

Length: 108min 2sec (6482 seconds)

Published: Fri Sep 06 2019

Reddit Comments

[u/shadowwraith69]

Idk this guy seemed like a total jerkoff. The guy who runs value tainment is also a jerkoff. With all his mafia themed buisness entrepreneur advice. Fuckin lame ass lol. Ill admit he did a good michael fransese interview. But thats about it

[u/LizardsThicket]

Doing an interview with Valuetainment = clown status. Guess I’m the last horse to cross the finish line with figuring that out about John Alite

[u/AJKramm]

Im from NY and I have been around extensively. Alite is right. All he is saying is alot of the made guys were weasels who used actual tough guys to do their work for them. Just like middle management uses workers as leverage to do work that they couldn't actually do themselves. Once they went to the can these guys let them sit there and rot, while they green light them over fear of them testifying, take their earnings and leave the families to starve. Guys like Alite did the real work period.

[u/recoveringwidow]

Cuz there's a frickin light side that we normally see??!! WTF

[u/thomasmit]

LOL John Gotti's hitman

[u/Hibee04]

Thought it was a decent enough interview. Although the interviewer always seems like he doesnt really understand the subject matter.

Also doubt many of the guys commenting here would tell Alite he is full of shit to his face.