Most Hated FBI Agent in the Mafia- Joe Pistone aka Donnie Brasco

[Music] you wake up in the morning is today today I go to jail or today the day I get killed I've died for you is you're a citizen you should ain't dying for a gangster you prefer Donnie Brasco his life or Joe Pistone's life if you've never seen the movie Donnie Brasco Donnie Brasco is a story of an undercover FBI agent who goes undercover not for six months not for 12 months for six years and eventually takes down two out of the five Italian Mafia families in New York and so when I heard about the story I watch this movie back in 1997 when it first came out starring Johnny Depp and Pacino it's a phenomenal story I said I want to sit down with the real Donnie Brasco to find out about the true story of what happened not just the movie and today we are sitting with the one and only Joe Pistone just to meet you pleasure meeting you my pleasure it's good to sit down with you and see it from your perspective because you've actually lived it's interesting you've lived the life of a mobster and you've been the FBI at the same time so to be different story that we can get from it but having said that Joe this is a question for you you grew up somebody who went to school you're in East Coast you go to school and you do your part you become a schoolteacher you're a guy that's in school teacher you're teaching kids you're being a regular citizen and all of a sudden you become an FBI agent so did you wake up one day you saw a kid that was a troublemaker and you said you know what this kids really starting to piss me off I want to be an FBI agent like what was the inspiration for you to become an FBI agent I always wanted to go into law enforcement but I also knew that I wanted to get a college education I took a job as a schoolteacher I was waiting for an appointment into naval intelligence I went into naval intelligence for a couple years and then I for filled the not regularly read was a prerequisite into it to get into the FBI now will you married at that time I already had kids I was married and I had three children at the time actually Irizarry little yeah fulfill my dream of going into law enforcement Joe let me ask you growing up I'm your Sicilian you're from a Sicilian family yes Italian family so you know when you think about Sicily I mean it is Sicily right so when you were growing up Rudy Guiliani once said that his father told him the following quote he says my father told me that these mobsters you got to take them down because a real man fights one-on-one but these mobsters never fight one-on-one so to him somebody put that inspiration into him to go take down all the crime that was taking place in New York and that was kind of his aspiration right I mean that's how Rudy made a name for himself as a kid growing up did you grow up sitting there with your dad and your mom and your family did you watch movies like that that you have a level of admiration for mobsters or mother was that ever something that you grow because you know there's a lot of things that we watch ourselves as kids was that you growing up or that was not even part of the conversation on the dialogue and the family I grew up obviously in an all-italian neighborhood and in the neighborhood where mobsters from my my father and moms perspective is you stay away from these guys you just keep your mouth shut and listen and don't get involved with them and I think that helped me later on knowing the Italian culture growing up Italian but knowing the mob culture a little bit from growing up in that type of neighborhood because there were social clubs you know there were a couple social clubs in my neighborhood that the gangsters hang out hung out in you see these guys driving flashy cars they don't work they got money you know and they're good to the people in the neighborhood you know they throw the kids in the neighborhood a couple bucks buy him ice cream etc but what you don't see is what goes on behind those closed doors of the social club you know you don't know about the the murders and the extortions and everything else that takes place so I think that that's the attraction that the public sees about about the mob you're now you know about to be recruited and you do a couple things I think you know at one point you were undercover that you were doing mainly was it gambling and prostitution you were finding that was the main specialty that you had and then all of us and they asked you to do this work of you going undercover explained that transition on how that happened when I join the FBI I had my years in naval intelligence they noted that I had the street smart to conduct investigations so I would go in on gambling dens and work the gambling cases work prostitution cases buy stolen commodities you know like art stocks bonds now you are undercover while you're doing these or no yeah yeah on a on a case by case basis and how long would the last 30 60 90 days type of deal well it could be it could be a week two weeks three weeks Oh leap ensign how much activity you had with the bad guy on how long it took you to gain two bad guys confidence and make the exchange and buy the commodity were these bad guys Italians or no they were not Italians no these bad guys were not strictly Italians they were just just thieves that's interesting how they're not connected because you go down many years and not one of these bad guys recognizes you from a prior case that you got him okay so who called you and they said Joe because you know J Edgar Hoover was not a fan of it because he believed that if you want to became an undercover you know you're gonna turn and go the other side so he wasn't a fan of it until you know you came around you kind of proved him wrong but when was it when they kelmot came up to NSA Joe this is the project we have this is what we want you to kind of walk us through how that took place prior to joining FBI I had worked as a truck driver during my years in college and in the summer times I drove 48 footers big rigs so I had that experience and there was an operation at a Tampa that they were still in cars and trucks and they had an opportunity to put an undercover in it I was one of the few guys in the bureau at that time that could that could drive the big rigs so I was asked if I wanted to take on that that operation as an undercover and I did so I was able to infiltrate that group and worked at for over a year and a half that was a year-and-a-half case yeah that was a year-and-a-half undercover operation what we would do is a you would come to us and say I want a Mercedes Benz okay what color you want what kind of interior you want what extras you want and then we go to find a mercedes-benz dealership and and hook it at night that's it that's it I learned to be a car thief Wow year and a half for here now how'd you get did you get publicity for that once you took those guys down well they went to trial and we got all the convictions so what were you aware it was the Joe Pistone named public yet or not yet yeah yeah it was yeah see that's the part that's that's fascinating to me on how this happen because we had the trials in Tampa so sure but when they do recognition and you know they recognize an FBI agent for the work they do they don't typically do it publicly they do that while they function would surely it wasn't advertised it was just whatever the court room was go test you know the court testimony didn't have anything to do with New York so maybe there's not a okay so after that is that kind of how you earned your stripes and they said look this guy can hang he's pretty calm he can go in and make it work why don't we give him this project and when they did were there other options they were looking at or were there like a processor it was just a meeting and say Joe this is you we've decided you're gonna do this work well actually I get back to New York after that year-and-a-half operation my supervisor by the name of gentleman by name a guy Murata had this idea for this undercover operation he asked me if I wanted to be the undercover you know because of my background being Italian he it was geared toward the Mafia the Italians I said sure and I actually speak Italian by the way not that great at that time yeah but not that you know I mean you lose everything you know got it but I'll tell you what you didn't have to because a lot of these guys don't speak it and the guys back at home too but yeah back at all it took about three to four months planning the operation getting everything in place what does that mean planning the operation the FBI doesn't shotgun undercover operations you got to have specific targets you got to have a specific plan of operation so by the time we did that then you have to you have to build yourself a legend because why do these guys want me you know or why what would attract them so you have to have a you have to have a legend since it was going to be a deep-cover operation you had to get it have everything in place before you actually went out onto the streets you can't pick a profession that's a profession involving violence because what does that mean well as a in other words I couldn't I couldn't say I couldn't go in and say hey I'm a leg-breaker you know I'm a money collector I'm a leg-breaker I'm a stick-up man got it there had to be a special skill like yours was being a jewelry will know how to kind of I know see him as an undercover agent you can't commit acts of violence so if I go in and say hey you know I'm a stick-up man well they're gonna expect me to go just do that - a bank robbery with a gun and and and actually you can't do that so we figured the best criminal profession would be a jewel thief for various reasons it's not one of violence a lot of jewel thieves operate alone I could get jeweled and precious gems from the government to show that I went out and did a score now you take a step further if I say I'm a jewel thief I better know about diamonds and pressures you know how did that happen because you knew when you said this is a fur gaze you know this is a how did how did you learn that I went to I went to school to learn about diamonds and precious gems like a private non FBI nothing related after the FBI just went and enrolled and I mean you got the I could be able to tell the divorce or corneum and like a diamond and then we had a we had a friendly jeweler that I spent time in his back room with his diamond guy and then once I once I became comfortable that you know I could at least discuss diamonds and precious gems then it was time to hit the streets and you read the the book Donnie Brasco you know you hear the story the background everything but this theme starts with the bar Masoli so how does here with lefty and by the way you here had Mira introduced you to lefty you read all these different things so and you know Tony Mira's got a whole different reputation of himself you're right so who actually did introduce you like did he did Mira tell you go to this bar did you get connected with him for us before left he came walk us through that a little bit we had several bars and restaurants targeted that we knew that these individuals hung out in and the idea was for me to visit these bars and restaurants get my face seen hopefully get into conversation with people because you don't walk into a mafia place and say hey you know I'm Donnie Brasco jewel thief I like to start doing business with you know yeah who do you know and the idea was hopefully getting conversation and go from there so that's what I did and it had to be a seven day a week job because you can't be around Monday to Friday because once you know once they they recognize your face if you're never around Saturdays and Sundays you see what I'm saying so you can't have the same routine over so can't be every day at 9:00 o'clock in the morning or it is talking exactly so you got it you got to make sure you're changing that up yeah exactly and while you're doing this are you living with your wife and kids or no no I'm living in my own apartment my wife and kids are across the country so initially the project wasn't supposed to go for six years six months six months was the plan yeah so it gets started okay in the introduction Mira lefty how does that go my first introduction was with the Colombo family out of New York City I met them I got friendly with a bartender at one of the places after about maybe six months he finally you know we finally connected as far as talking one night he brings me to an all-night crap game and it's you know all mob guys and he doesn't introduce me to anybody but I'm with him so I'm good I see mirror at these games through conversation everything he knows hey this guy's a street guy he knows what's going on so he introduces me to guys and I had some diamonds one day I go in I come into the bar one night and I say I got a package here then I need X amount of money for I don't tell him what what it is this is to the bartender about okay if you can do anything let me know he just takes it about two weeks later and during this two-week period I don't ask him about the package and he don't say anything but two weeks later he says hey Donnie said somebody left this envelope for you okay and it's he had so sold the Diamonds the bartender's are 10 okay so now when we go out and go to the crap games now he introduces me as Don the jeweler because I gave them so now you have a reputation now I got a record how long since you started going to the bar until that happens because this takes patient six months six months until you're even introduced in yeah oh my gosh a lot of so six months you just got to keep being patient every day and not even just out there every night hoping that open to gain a conversation with someone okay so six months later you get you get you get to meet these guys he calls you down to jeweler yeah then he introduced me a guy by name a Jilly Jilly it was a Columbo Jilly has a place out in Brooklyn so you know Julie says me one day Donnie wants you you know much come out tomorrow you know come out to my my place in Brooklyn his club in Brooklyn I was ok Jilly so I go out there and he had to do you know since the bartender vouch for me i Gilly introduces me to to his crew I'm out there maybe a couple months with them they were very active crew and hijacking and other activities now made guy is somebody that's been officially inducted into a Mafia family ok there are a lot of rules that the Mafia has it's very important if you're an undercover you know what these rules are because they'll help you ingratiate yourself and they'll also keep you alive when you work undercover you have to know your enemy you gotta know everything about your enemy because if you don't you're gonna get killed so I knew the rules you never embarrassed a made guy in front of anybody else if I'm in an argument with you and I'm not a made guy if I embarrass you in front of anybody else I'm in trouble the other rule is during the course of this verbal argument you and I have if you give me a slap and I hit you back you're gonna get killed - a made guy - a made guy in any undercover operation where you infiltrate an organized crime group that you know has violence attached to him you're gonna get into argument because everybody doesn't like everybody I mean you know course it's not a kumbaya world sure you know these guys get out of jail and one of them's a made guy and one of them isn't this is Colombo family is the Colombo's time Frankie and Patsy they had some scores lined up so chilli tells me and I said whatever the scores were it's too dangerous you want to rob a factory in in broad daylight it's a crazy idea one day I come to the club and Julie says Donny said let's walk and talk now walk and talk as you walk down the street and you talk and the reason they do that is because I don't think anybody's listening Patsy was the main guy he said Patsy wants to have a sit-down so I said well let's have a sit-down so we going back at Julie's club they locked the door we should down at a table Patsy takes out his gun out of the thing it lays on a table and he said Donny if you don't tell me and convinced me that you're as good as thief as Jilly says you are the only way you're going out of here is rolled up in that rug I said what do you need to know so that's another thing too you never give anybody up so he wants and you know he's asking me about what you said you're from Miami tell me some guys in Miami that you thieved with I'm not telling you anybody I'm not giving you names and guy says look you just got out of jail how do I know you to become an informant in jail no I'm you're telling them this I'm telling it but you know I'm on a fine line here right we go back and forth back and forth so after about five hours finally Jilly says hey look it's over Donnie's been around us for like three months nothing's ever happened this is over now I got a another problem they just called Donny out why isn't he ticked off if I apologize they're all gonna say they just called Donny yeah how come he's not Pio now I can't do anything to patsy because he's a made guy that's what I'm thinking because he just said that the two rules but Frankie's Frankie's wit passes so as we get up I lay Frankie out right there right there Patsy starts on me but I can't do anything but just defend myself against them but I just keep hitting hitting Frankie so finally they break it up but right now I know I got to get away from these guys so after they break it up I'd say Jilly you know no disrespect to you but I can't be around these guys anymore I can't be around Patsy and Frank anymore because this is not over with them so he says well I understand now I had met Tony mirror at the games mm-hmm the crap game at the crab yes I leave the Colombo's the next time I go to the crafts games I sign up to mirror because I know he's a Bonanno guy and he's down in downtown in Little Italy I start hanging with Tony Mirra but he's he's off the charts I mean the guy was a definitely cycle I mean even if the wiseguys really didn't like him but he was a big moneymaker it was an earner he was a big earner in the job trade for the bonanno's and he had just gotten out of jail but I started hanging out with him and he introduced me to Lefty because they were all in the same crew down in Little Italy and I got into a couple beefs with mirror now he's a made guy oh yes oh so you and he's a guy that's got a reputation that I I heard he's killed more people than cancer when you read about this guy but one night we're in a we're in a restaurant and it's like three four o'clock in the morning and he starts berating the waitress I said Tony I said you know I said it's not her fault leave her alone well he went eight he he start calling me and there's other people there he just berated me for telling calling him out yeah but he doesn't hit she doesn't fight no no no I can't let him think that he's gonna be talking to me like this all the time the next day he and I are loaning and I just told my said Tony I said look there's nobody around now but don't ever talk to me like that again you told him that yeah what was his reaction his reaction was like he was stunned I said because if you do I said you better watch your back I said cuz I'll come after you when nobody is around he told him that yeah how's this reaction even after you say well his reaction was you know you can't talk to me like that I said I'm talking to you because there's nobody else around so it's mmm so at least give him the respect to save face by doing a private yeah but I couldn't show him that I was gonna take his did he do you think he appreciated that are you at least to the price thing he did okay well you know that's what these guys that service ribbon that's what they respect they don't respect weakness you know it's like a terrorist terrorist doesn't respect you when you're weak I had to let him know that I wasn't gonna take it I may have to take his verbal abuse around other people but I was gonna let him know later on this doesn't fly with you where are you know how far into it is it from the moment you decided it goes like this as you said six months you were at the bar but how many how long have you been in now almost a year almost a year to getting to this point yeah but let me ask you were you Mira's guy where Mira hasn't locked you and as his guy don't know that he hasn't done that was his problem he you are or you're not yeah I got it so he can't say you're his product like somebody else can the rule is a made guy bring somebody else in he goes to his captain and says I'm claiming Donny Mira never did that why didn't he thought who knows who knows interesting well good for you that he yeah it was the best yeah he goes away to the can again now is when I marry up with lefty okay now at that time our captain was a guy by name of Mike said Bella because Gallente was still alive in the boss hmm now lefty goes to Mike and says I'm claiming Donnie and Mike's the cap so he can do that Mike's the captain that he was lefties captain God so now I'm under Mike Sabella when they're lefty got it so that's so that's how the relationship we left it begins okay so now you meet lefty now lefty and mirror couldn't be you know more opposite and personalities on the way they were with you what was unique about lefty in your relationship with him mirror you could never get close to mirror what's that with most of them or no was it just how Mira was I was just mirror most people didn't like mirror not yet though yeah lefty hated everybody I mean be honest with you most guys hated him because he had no respect for anybody women girls none at all here's prale yeah but he makes so much money yeah so lefties so now you mean so I was a best man at his wedding and I met his I met his daughters you and I used to go to his house part of my legend while I was an orphan okay so I had no family but real life you're not real life no yeah but Imbaba were you close to your father yourself yeah sure very good relation no issues with father at all got it so your your legend is you're an orphan and I remember that part when your father was in the military and he got shot by the Japs and that's the scene in the bath that I'm gonna do like I'm not taking off my shoes so it's okay so you say this to Lefty you know I would go to Lefty's house for dinner on Sunday in that world Sunday if you go there that's family you're not yeah it's like a pinnacle yeah yeah so now at what point was it when you and left to get really close past that war it's like I know you're going Sunday's and it's family when was it when the first time he told you says listen I have your back you're my guy I love you we're gonna do this together we're gonna take over the world together when was that lefty was running running booked for the underboss of the Bonanno family he brings me in and of course he introduces me to Nicky Baron jello who was the underboss Nicky is not Nicky mouth that's a different Magee right you tell me the complete different Nick in the classic Nicki Marron jello he got the underboss of the bonanno's so lefty brings me to - Nicky says Donny's gonna be working with me in the operation now it's it's maybe four months or somethin you know these guys see me every day I'm talking to them you know having dinner with them or lunch whatever the FBI had another undercover operation going out in Milwaukee simultaneously yeah so this is the one that they said we want you to kind of help the other guys out exactly my whole mindset in undercover is only one person saves your life and that's you the undercover SEAL Team six HRT they could be on the other side of that door but by the time you shoot me it's what action versus reaction the action is you shoot me the reaction is them coming through the door you see what I'm saying not that they're not doing they're here wins action wins that's exactly all right action window so my whole mindset was I my own life every undercover has to look out for their own security hmm don't depend on somebody else right so my first question is who's the undercover so I know the undercover in fact I had worked the undercover that was in Milwaukee I had worked with him before so you have this Milwaukee of you I know I know the undercover I say sure but I gotta talk to Tony that was his undercover name I gotta talk to Tony so me and Tony meet he tells me about the operation Exeter Exeter I can't just go to lefty because I got to go to lefty first I can't just go to left and say hey lefty I know a guy out and out in Milwaukee's got a great business we ought to go do because I got a distance again you know I got to distance myself if anything happens I just bring up in a conversation he left G I got a call out of the blue from this this guy that I knew from 10 years ago guy was a great thief he doesn't do any reaction mm-hmm I let maybe a week go by and then I bring the same conversation up and finally says what's this guy do I says he's trying to start a vending machine business the first thing he says is he F and crazy they'll blow him up out there he says you can't just start a defend the machine business he said that's control what's this guy got so I said well he tells me he's got a he's got trucks he's got vending machines he's got officer guy Milwaukee's still yeah yeah so now it piques his interest because what is it about it's about mr. Benjamin you know so one day he says to me a said though tell like God to fly in here and I want to talk to him it's okay les Tony was a great agent I mean he was a former Marine just a tough tough guy that evening me and Lefty go to the restaurant and Tony comes I'm in the middle of Tony and and lefty right it's just the three of you no one else is ever sent the bar got it so now his mind said is if he doesn't talk directly to Tony whatever is said it's not illegal there's no conspiracy all night the conversation is like Donnie tell Tony whatever the question was tell Tony what did what business is he in out there Tony tells me I Lefty this is the businesses in Donnie tell Tony how many machines he has you know it goes back and forth now the next day we go see Mike Sabella because we can't do anything without the captain and we explained to Mike Sabella exactly what you know what's going on so he says ok you two guys fly out there don't talk to anybody just see if he has a business going so me and Lefty fighting Milwaukee meet Tony he takes us to the offices he shows us he has a warehouse full of machines he's got a couple trucks the whole thing in the mob one family cannot go into another family's territory and conduct business you have to get their permission and then do you give them 20 points or ten points or sever they want whatever they want yeah we got it now sit down with our consigliere the Bonanno family consigliere right so we explained to to Bobby his name was Bobby at the time now we have to lie not to Bobby but we got Ally to Chicago because Bobby has to go to Chicago tell them about our operation Chicago then tells Milwaukee and then Milwaukee decides all right have them come out and sit down with us we have to tell Chicago that Tony the undercover has been with the bonanno's for ten years if we tell them that the bonanno's just met Tony through me that seems to be common though you you read a lot about that where Capone used to do that Capone will meet a guy from a swap meet and he would say this guy's my guy's been with me for a while and he just met him a weaker if I'm sorry God he would say that God he would say because otherwise otherwise they would say hey you just met this guy why are you doing he's with us he's in Milwaukee it's not even a doubt part it's who's gonna make the money part six right out of interesting right so we fly out there being a lefty when we get the call be at this restaurant so we left the Youth Tony go to the restaurant and there's the boss of the family Frank Bella story his underboss his two sons and one of his captains and we have a dinner we tell him you know exactly what we want because he controls all the vending in Milwaukee and all the towns around it right so we'd be infringing on his the agreement was Tony would do all the work they would give him stops that he can put the machines in that they didn't have their machines in out of that business the bananas would have to give the balusters Ares I forget what the percentage was a percentage of profit was it one of the first victories where you're like wow we just got these guys now we have we know we got the family here in Milwaukee and Chicago weekend well the bonanno's thought enough of me and trusted me enough to bring them out there now here's another thing that's lost and we just married two FBI families to conduct business together never happened before Wow all right so Joe this entire time how are you staying cool like you know what is your thought pattern for you I mean look let me in sports players get paid tens of millions of dollars every year to stay cool when they're taking a last shot with two seconds left and their life's not on the line like the coach is not saying hey MJ you don't make the shot we don't kill you but with you you slip one slip in your life is on the line so what are you doing to make sure you stay cool throughout this entire time that goes back to the individual you never change your personality in the undercover business you always stay never change your personality like DNA the way your wire is exactly right you're not so okay got it all right so in other words I can't have a preconceived notion that all mobsters you know or tough guys and drinking because I don't drink I've never been a drinker and my thought process and mindset and undercover is I don't change what I would do normally you and you're in this role for six years and you've never been a mobster before it's not like you did it for a day or two or five minutes or an hour or drive how do you go for six years I mean if you go for six years a part of me is curious to know did you at one point actually forget about the fact that you're an FBI agent and you became a mobster or was alike you're living a double life like a man who's married to two different wives and neither one of them knows about the other wife I never lost the fact that that I was an FBI a never Joe Pistone no to me all my undercover roles were just another investigation and you never got emotionally attached no never no did I did I liked like lefty or like Sonny there were certain traits about the guys that I did but I never got emotionally attached enough to them that oh man you know this guy's going to go to jail or this guy's going to get killed because long-term deep undercover everybody can't do it's a special personality and a special mental toughness that the guys that do deep cover and long-term can do was there a moment where you were so into deep and I know you wanted to be a made guy because you were upset when they took you out because you wanted to be made guy was it you wanted to be a made guy because of a self recognition competitive side of you or because of pride that I went in and I made it all the way up to being a made guy or that the hit was going to be bigger if you were made got to be able to say look I infiltrated and I got all the way up to Vienna mate guy which one was it for you we got six years invested in this it's a long time okay nobody in the undercover field has ever gotten this close to the Mafia where I was going to be a made guy in four months why not wait out the four months and let me get made for what the what was your motivation the motivation was is that look at the kick in the arse to the Mafia they made an FBI agent because remember above it is time the Mafia was like an invincible entity to the American public and he do they won they had an undercover agent at the top echelon of the families putting different families together but they also made him you see the bad publicity and and do you prefer Donnie Brasco his life or Joe Pistone's life Joe Pistone's life hands down hands down now let me ask you let me restate a question Joe Pistone is not married he doesn't have three kids okay and Joe becomes a FBI agent do you prefer Joe Pistone's life or Donnie Brasco is life Joe Pistone still so you have no s there was no part of it where you got so deep where you're like my gosh this life is fascinating to me you truly wanted to take these guys down yeah because that was my job I was my job I understand the job part so it might be hard to be but you only explain to why and here's how I'm processing this say I'm married but let's just say I'm you know John Doe and I'm married to a girl named Mary okay and I love Mary okay and I work with the scroll and Mary works at Sears and I work at IBM and I start getting really close to this girl and maybe I'm starting to spend a lot of time with her and me and Mary are gone through issues and this girl here is treating me really good and it happens 1 month 2 months 3 months 6 months 12 months 18 months she's cried we've cried we've had moments nothing's yet happened okay emotionally I'm getting a little too deep with this relationship here right emotionally if you think about it there was never that moment for you where emotionally you didn't go on to the other side where feeling never Wow so so then that says a lot about your mental and emotional toughness to be able to process it that way and never get in too deep because you were able to convince a lefty that you were the person he loved yeah and Sonny black too so maybe you need to go play poker these poker tornensis you got the glasses on already so you look like you're ready to play poker and crush everybody and my outlook is look everybody has a choice in life you chose to be a gangster I chose to be an FBI agent so if you want to be a gangster Kobe go big I chose to be an FBI agent and as an FBI agent my job is if we know you are breaking the law to gather evidence of you breaking the law it almost is like you have to be emotional Asst while you're going through this because while you're doing is six years away from your wife and kids you come in and scene I mean these are peak of your kids they're grown-up they're going through that they want daddy to be around recitals being missed all these other things being missed arguments would wife validated some of the scenes in a movie role obviously more Hollywood or fabricated you know that like this slap all this other stuff so how are you managing the personal family side and you know what is she doing to not get upset and lose her cool to tell people who you really are because there come the FBI guys are coming to you I mean she asked to be a mentally and emotionally tough person to do what she did so how was that dynamic on the under family side exactly I mean look you can't go into an undercover operation if your wife or your girlfriend or if it's a girl if it's a female undercover you know her husband or her boyfriend or whatever if you don't know the other person if you don't have a partner that you know that is also mentally tough and also has their own character it's not gonna work obviously obviously that's that's a difficult task you know of course it is how often was she seen you what we often was it like the once every month how often would you see family maybe once every four five six months all depended wait a minute I would thought you were gonna say once every four or five days yeah once every four or five months unlike for one day or like for a week at a time I might fly in and spend the day maybe two days I was lucky every every four five six months fly out yeah and you're still with your wife till today same one Joe you married up like at the highest level I'm married an Irish lady I mean let me tell you if you're watching this you Wow marry three kids wife family you're going through this part you've seen him once every six months did the fights did the heat get it get getting higher and higher and higher where eventually she told you said Joe we can't do this anymore you got to cut it was there a moment for that no not really there was one time when I actually almost pulled out because she was in a bad car accident she was yeah yeah how long ago was that into that was maybe three years and hint to the operetta and that's when I thought well maybe you know maybe I should get out we were in in two in two three years I was really engrossed now you know in embedded with the bonanno's we had the operation going in in Milwaukee so I felt if I you know if I do get out all this work that other people have put in done is gone so after some real soul-searching I decided to stay you talk to her about it or no you just made the decision on your own that I told it I was gonna stay you told her you're gonna Stan yeah but she devastated was she annoyed by was she hurt by I think she probably was a little hurt but you know she was in she was on a lot of medications oh maybe she didn't understand but no she was it did levity help you on that levity kind of help you go through this or was it was it was it kind of when you were on your own by yourself were you kind of finding that way for you to be calm or more relaxed or was your level of tense and intensity going higher and higher and higher I always stayed on a plane it's the personality I guess so why don't we talk about Sonny black a little bit cuz you know I've asked a lot of you about Sonny black and he seems like a you know a guy with a lot of his own colorful type of a personality so you're coming up you're making the name you're doing some work in Florida you're getting things done you're building some credit for yourself and Sonny gets picked up and he becomes a boss and he starts kind of seeing that's what's happening with you and then there's this event that takes place in Florida with the you know you got to get this boat you got to get a nice boat and you go get this FBI boat and you and Sonny have a conversation there where and I'm covering a lot of different things but I kind of want to hear from you where Sonny says something like hey I think Lefty's holding you back I think you know I can help you become a made man and all this other stuff how did that transition take place from Lefty to you starting to get closer to Sonny because if I read it well enough I've studied it properly you probably spend most time with Lefty after I left he's probably Sonny that you spend the most time with right correct how did that transition take place well what happened was is that I'm with Lefty and remember Mike Sabella was our captain and carmine Galletti was a boss so now we're in Little Italy they whack carmine Galante they make a guy by name a rusty rastelli the boss of the family who's in prison at those in prison right Sonny black now gets up to captain they knock Mike down because Mike was close but carmine Galante Nicki Marron jello was galette these underboss they go to Mike and Nicky mm-hmm and say look you either step down or we're gonna whack you since they knocked Mike down now the admit you know that the administration of the family they put me and Lefty under Sonny black because he's now elevated the captain he's in Brooklyn so now me and Lefty have to report the Brooklyn everyday to Sonny black so of course I get introduced to Sonny again you know Sonny's involved in in gambling's got gambling operations going it's good it's moving swag so I'm involved in all of this all of this with them now the FBI has another undercover operation in Tampa they were trying to get the Santo Trafficante who was the mafia boss in Florida but they they weren't getting to him and they say hey you think he can bring the bonanno's to Florida I brought him out to Milwaukee I don't know you know I don't want you know I said I tell me who the undercover agent is I said let me see what I can do so I'd go through the same routine but this time what what I do is I said I can't I can't say again somebody called me you know it's a Donnie you know I said what we'll do we were going back and forth to Miami a lot when I say we me and Lefty all right was he like to go down there on the weekends and hang out all right because we had one this is not business no for fun because we we had an in that one of the major hotels that you know we would get a suite and just hang out by the pool so I said I should have the undercover agent who also was going by the name of Tony bump into us in the hotel restaurant bar bump into us yeah this way it's not like hey left you know guy from Florida call me right so that's what happened you know a chance meeting okay hey Donnie how you doing I haven't seen you blah blah blah Tony hey I want you to be watching me lifting I got a I got a nightclub up in Tampa their minds are always working about how to make money hmm right and of course a nightclub you're thinking of yeah no kidding you know yeah you know it got a nice Club it's a private club watch it guys you know come on up sometime you know one day I said you left why don't we take a run down and check this club out so you know tell Sonny yeah go ahead check it out so Mia left me a lefty slide down and shows us around I mean it's gorgeous he's on like five acres it's got tennis courts at night the place is jammed we go back tell Sonny Sonny flies down and now you know they get the idea oh we got a great thing going here now we have to go through the same routine because they can't conduct any illegal business here because it's traffic can't these territory same thing negotiate dollars with me who's been with me for 10 years right now the whole difference here is once they set up the meeting with trafficante me and Sonny go to the meeting just me and Sonny left he's not there know which ticks him off why wouldn't left him either Sonny didn't want him there oh wow Sonny didn't want about it so I'm now in the precarious situation because he says you know me and Bonnie are going to meet Trafficante now it seem like there's there's there's some animosity between from lefty to Sonny because lefty felt like I've been here for 30 years when am I going to get the opportunity to kind of get along so was that kind of deeper oh yeah because you know he's figuring he's bringing you in to meet with him mm-hmm I've been a wise guy forever I got it I got a placate lefty you say left what's the difference you know I'm still your guy you know we can do this and so me and Sonny meet with traffic canny Trafficante gives the okay you guys can do what you want there we get it we get a cup we're good with it so that as long as they get a cut of it what does he care got it he's not putting any men there to run anything got it then what happens is is that the guys want to go out on a fishing trip so the FBI has a boat I said left do you remember we were out in San Diego I said remember we met those couple girls at the bar and we bought him dinner he said yeah I said well you know one of them told me your brother has a boat I always backed stuff up so I said let me see if I can find the number so the next day I said you know what I said yeah I got the number here in my little address book so we set it up and we went out and went out fishing net cetera et cetera well that boat was used in another FBI undercover operation and was not supposed to be surfaced and what happened was there was a leak to the media about the undercover operation so the FBI had to surface the the operation prematurely and the boat was on the cover of Newsweek and on the cover of knows yeah I thought it was a story inside the nose week was undercover it was undercut I'm sure was under Co Wow I'm sure it was so so so when that happens were you under because you were on a flight the first time you saw it right I so when was it when he saw it and he found that you were we were in Miami actually because I remember him saying come on let's go to wolfies in Miami I think it was a it's famous Jewish delicatessen okay I mean everybody knows and we go there and we sit down and you know and he says this looked familiar just the two of you yeah I said it's a boat he said we were on that boat I said left how can we be on that boats now the name of the boat was a left hand what are the chances it's not only find a boat the boat's name is left so he said Donny what's my name I said lefty he said what's the name in a boat I said you do I'm gonna forget that so I let me let me see her Wow I said left even if it was nobody's come after us they were after all these politicians and he said Donny said I don't know if I should tell you know if I should go tell the bosses I said lefty we're still walking around I said look when these arrests were made we're still walking around I said they don't want us you know what did we do we went on the boat we went fishing you know had some submarine sandwiches some heroes that's it so let me ask you is he doubting you or is he doubting somebody else on the crew that may have been a informant who was he questioning you that moment well at that moment he was questioning to me he was question was but don't forget now I've been with him so long and nothing ever was what I'm saying it ever happened you know he was saying did she ever say that you know I should know she just told me her brother her brother had a boat we ever got to go out on it could yeah we could so then you guys go then yeah and he never mentioned it to anybody none of the he never brought up to son ever brought it up to and being never saw it either no so that's so interesting nobody else nobody ever brought it up he was the only one who brought it up got it so so then you have the opening to the restaurant you know the opening of the nightclub and then the cops show up and they have that whole scene that takes place and then you guys go to prison when you're in prison son a lefty tells sunny there's a snitch here right in that moment do you vividly remember that moment when lovey said there's a snitch so when he said that what happened I'm assuming everyone's gonna be Sunny's gonna be looking at everybody but everybody knew everybody you know I mean when I say everybody knew everybody you know it was it was the wise guys you know so then you guys come out then you go and you're coming back and things are starting to get kind of heated and you know you go out there and and and and was this the first time that you actually saw them killing somebody right in front you had you already seen no no no I had never seen it what happened was that I I really wasn't there when they killed these guys that would that was movie that was movie stuff but I had gotten a contract to kill Bruno who had didn't show up Sonny Bruno who's the father who'd had issues with them right remember they killed the three camp yeah Sonny Bruno's a cocaine guy right that he was yeah well his name was Bruno your own della Connie they killed his father big trend and and feel lucky it was only one that was there were three kapos that opposed rusty rastelli and they were trying to make sure they got everybody because Bruno wanted to retaliate right and Bruno was supposed to show up at the meeting to get killed and it did it I was supposed to be there and then at the last minute they cancelled me out and then I was supposed to being the cleanup crew with the guys that cleaned it up but they cancelled me out because they had they had enough guys so they were supposed to take you out yeah they didn't you've got canceled yeah did you did you I don't feel guilty about Nicky getting killed or no was it it was it kind of like you know not at all hey you know like I said you made a choice in life you know it's your choice to be a gangster that's amazing to me that in your money it's it's not necessarily cut it out the way you're making it seen that the thing is we these guys is that you wake up in the morning and is today today I go to jail or today today I get killed so sunny says to you one time the whole thing is how strong you are right and how much power you got and how fucking mean you are that's what makes you rise in a mob every day is a fucking struggle because you don't know who's looking to knock you off especially when you become a captain or boss every day somebody is looking to dispose of you and take your position you always got to be on your toes every day's a scam day to keep your power in position suddenly told you that yeah did he tell you this as he was starting to get really close to you and wanted to help you become a made man was it at that moment when you thought yes so you know the life Sonny and I had a lot of a lot of one-on-one conversation if I didn't feel like going back uptown I would stay upstairs with him sleep on his couch at the time he's one of the acting bosses of the Bonanno family did you see Samia more as a leader or lefty with Sonny dodo was coming up out Sonny when I today yes Sonny was a leader was Lefty more emotional and Sonny was more stable or ya got it Sonny was a leader I get up in the morning Sonny goes to cross now here's the acting boss of the family goes across the street to the bakery gets two coffees hard rolls with butter and brings him back and we're sitting on his couch in our underwear drinking coffee and you know hard rolling bagel with a cartoon on a television cartoon cartoons now that's that's straight mobster you go chicken cartoon could you ever do that with lefty no because Lefty you said lefty was a 24 24/7 yeah 365 day a year gangster Sonny had the downside Sonny was a stone-cold gangster but but it was a little more down-to-earth about about stuff and in one conversation he told me she said Donny said you know lefties holding you back now is he feeling me out to see where my loyalties lie if I'm gonna turn on lefty because I'm close to him now but if I say yeah I know I know Sonny you know but I get and then it's like to him well hell if he turns on Lefty what's he gonna do with me down the road mm-hmm so you know I said Sonny I've known lefty from day one he's got a lot of faults but he's my guy I wouldn't know you without him so he sees I got to show him that I'm a loyal guy but I gotta show him too then I'm smart enough to know lefty has false and then as time goes on we're in a restaurant in Brooklyn called creasy's now that there's this there's this rift within the Bonanno family the three captains that that want to take over the family against Sonny join Messina and a Sicilian faction there was a Sicilian faction of the Bonanno family run by South Catalano that faction was with Sonny and Lefty and and rastelli he tells he says Donnie said they're gonna open the books in December in other words they're gonna induct members he said I already proposed you for membership everybody gave you a thumbs up Sonny Sonny Sonny Stella me so you're gonna become a made guy in December how long is that before the operation shuts down late May so you're seven months away from being America yeah and we shut the operation down in July two months later two months later when the FBI took over and they said no here's what we're doing they went to a lefty and they want to these guys because of the killings now don't forget they kill those three guys I get the contract to kill Bruno who who didn't show Sonny sends me to Miami he said we think he's in Miami so I go to Miami I look around Miami the deal was that if I find him I call the FBI they come out and snatch him and they make it look like they staged a hit like I did hit him and if the FBI found him first in duty reversed you know they'd snatch him stage your head I couldn't find him so after like a week I said Sonny I can't find him he said okay he's not there anymore he said we got word he's back in he's back in New York come on back I go back to New York we're still looking for him now during that whole six years I never carried a gun but now Sonny gives me one Sonny no because now there's a shoe yeah of course yeah I mean we go to a wedding and guys you know but before on a day-to-day basis wiseguys don't carry guns the only time they carry the gun is if they're gonna go do a piece of work now what's the story about lefty carrying - because back then why would you go kill somebody okay when you go you need to would take - yeah because the guns were all then it would give sometimes got it why don't they carry guns in a daily basis cause you're always getting rousted by the cops hmm why do you need you know sure why do you need that accent so the only you know like I would I always get a kick out of watching gangster movies you see gangsters were shoulder holsters and you know where the guns are they're in your pocket they're in your waist I never saw a gangster with a whole shoulder any kind of holster yet so you get the gun six six years into it gives you the only time I carried a gun and and the scene with the boat that scene with the boat was it pretty vividly close to what the scene was with the boat with you and a lefty were you getting close Sony's there you see him you turn off the lights then you go in he comes out you're about to he's about to shoot him you're not gonna do anything about it that's Hollywood so that wasn't the case yeah what happened was we're in the club one day remember I had the contract to kill Bruno so when you get a contract in the mob it's your responsibility that that guy gets killed now I might not pull the trigger I can't get somebody to do the work from but I have to be there sure engine so Sonny gets call and he says Bruno's that such that's a place I gotta get the other guys together so get our guns okay start to get in a car phone rings it's bad information he's not there my problem is if he was there and we get there what do I do you're gonna call do I say hey wait a minute guys I'm an FBI agent we can't kill him what do you think it's killed then you right there first of all yeah Donnie you've been around six years if we get there I gotta tell you I'm not dying for a gangster I'll die for you but you're a citizen your citizens ain't dying for a gangster Wow yeah so you are truly like a real-deal patriot you're not that you you bleed red white and blue you're gonna do it for this country you're not even good Wow so so let me let me ask you this question so this whole thing gets done obviously you know everybody gets killed at that time a lot of these guys that you were in business with and friends with for many years you know you hear this story about Sonny with the Rolexes and Lefty with the girl and hey Sonny says hey tell Jo and the movie I think they have left he say to his girlfriend but in real life it's Sonny says it to his girl that yeah that correction there at a that story yeah I do the FBI goes to Sonny left E&M in the club and what we had done we we took a picture of me and up other FBI ages that's Sonny knew from you know from years of them working him I'm there and I got my credentials and they go to Sonny and they say you know this guy in said well he's he's really Joe Pistone FBI agent undercover they leave now we had wires going there talking it's like there's no way down he's none to covering no no ways an FBI a did you actually hear that live yourself that the wiring of no no no I didn't hear no because I was in Washington at this time God their thought process was the FBI kidnapped Donnie snatched him and our brain watching them and trying to make him inform it that Wow that's how good you were that's that that was there that's how good you were to get them yeah once the indict indictments come out you know and everything now they now they realize it right hey it really was an FBI agent so now Sonny gets a call he gets called to a sit-down he knows what it is yeah just talking about gangsters and remember I said there's gangsters and gangsters yeah he goes in the bar takes off his watch takes off his diamond ring goes in his pocket takes out his money takes all this keys but his car keys says it a bartender I'm going to a sit-down and I probably not coming back cause his girlfriend and says tells her the same thing if you ever see Donny tell him I loved him and I'm glad it was him he was just better than we were he goes in to sit down and they whack him now he I mean tells the bartender I'm going to a sit-down this is sunny and I'm probably not coming back now they don't find his body for a year yeah and when they did they found him with his right why because he had to be shaking hands with what boss Wow now they whacked Mira because he was the first one that brought me in Jilly got killed the Columbo left he's on his way to get killed and the FBI overheard it on a wire so they snatched him before he got to the destination where they were gonna left him yeah so what happened to lofty he went to jail and he died eventually and he did 15 he had cancer dove penis he had lung cancer he had oral cancer they took one of his lungs out in prison and then they found he had cancer in the other lung and he had like six months to live or something not not me six weeks or something to live so they just released him I said go die home so he actually died outside of prison did you ever reunite with never nothing no call no no indirect communication we were we were at a trial in Milwaukee you had like 16 17 trials that you do you had 17 on that one Wow that's not counting the other trial got it so you're on this trial in Milwaukee and no no no it was a trial in it was a trial in Tampa he gets up and tells it a judge he should be in jail he's on in court Lefty yeah when I walked in to testify he's how under the judge that I should be in jail not him why I was the undercover agent I guess and then so you could see the hate you could see oh my god and then in Milwaukee do US attorney not the US attorney but the assistant US attorney comes to me and he says you think we could turn lefty I said 24/7 gangs not gonna do never in a million years you told him though he says well I'm gonna go talk to him I said here's what's gonna happen you're gonna walk in there into jail he's gonna start mother-effing you tell you to get the F out of here he comes back and he said how did you know I know the guy yeah so he died out outside of jail now the part where it says you get $500 for your service is that Hollywood is that true no that's that's what I got okay so now here's my question for you a sixth of your life you give up truly it's like you gave up sixth of your life you've seen your wife and your three kids once every four five six months and when you see them it's one or two days and you're gone right you miss those memories those recitals and you finish up and they only give you five hundred dollars for putting your life on the line and then that's it did they give you a retirement or pension anything else for that was it now I had to do mic night at the mic like 20 what I did what you know I did get the United States Attorney General's Award that doesn't pay you four grand a month for the rest your life is now and and and I got a $5,000 check for that from the Department of Justice a 5,500 bucks 5,500 bucks private school is more than that four kids in college right so was there a part of you where deep down and said you're like give me a break I just put my life on the line you give me only this much I mean because you know here's why here's why I'm asking this question your life will never be the same again never be there well my kids neither will your kids neither will your wife or having put up with this I mean pay for my college kids college give us $200,000 per kid for college take care of me give me a place have a secrets have somebody around me but you brought out 245 convictions is there any part of you kind of saying the system you know you got to take care of a guy like me if you want to do this on the next guy that does it you know you got to make sure the systems change was there any animosity towards the way they took carry at the end there was only one where I had one boss that was a real pain in the arse you don't do it for money you don't work undercover you know for a reward I get that no but but listen you know I did have a hard time from from one si si that's a special agent charge of it of a field Division if there was any any why you letting this guy do this to headquarters but as far as the FBI as a whole I don't have any ill feelings you know because most other than this one guy everybody else treated me fair I understand treatment I understand the treatment part and I know this guy was a pain in the arse but I'm talking about return for your time and service you know you do 20 years in the Army they give you 50 percent you every time you do 30 years they give you 75 I don't know what the numbers right now 75 100 percent six years okay they can't be given back to you now you think it's okay that they only gave you 55 on the rocks honestly I mean I mean there is the other part that it's kind of like listen if if I'm if I'm about to be the next Joe Pistone and I'm about to work on a case that's for a Russian mob let's just say and I'm Russian I grew up in Moscow and I speak the language and I'm got the swagger because I grew up in a part in New York or LA that's part of that and I'm going to get into and I call you and I say hey Joe listen if you do me a favor you know I understand you so I'm about to think about doing this I'm 30 or so I got a wife and three kids should I do it what would you tell me no no seriously see see now now that's why because you have a wife and three kids so if you have to do it all over again you wouldn't do it but I do it would you do it if you had to do it all over again I probably lean in yes so there's a bipolar relationship there that you would tell me not to do it right because there's an issue yeah because you're married and you got three kids but you're married and three kids I know but I'm looking out for you so I'm looking out for you my priest I'm looking out for your wife your wife is watching and saying how about you Joe you know you know my kids had to change schools well they had to move out of state oh they had to change their names all the records because don't forget there was a contract out on me by the mob five hundred thousand dollar contract thing that would have really pay to have familiar to somebody if they would if they would have whacked me then you think so yeah you really believe that back then yeah yeah yeah now so you feel safer today now there's when you go oh yeah okay but the first couple years because I know they were out looking for me the first couple years well how long is a couple years just two years or like there are 10 years for about the first three or four years okay hey Opie because you know from informants you know the FBI knows what was there anybody always protecting you or not really when you were going out pony had trials at trials I aside from that you go into your house somebody follows you were sorry it's your life sign me up you know what I'm saying a great program - so it's okay so so to finish this thing off here do you do you follow on what's going on if there's still the mobs around you know it is it completely depleted cuz you know I interviewed Michael and all of a sudden I got messages from we have a big following from Italy I got a bunch of messages from Italy and in all of us and I got a bunch of messages from Sicily and I get this message from Sicily and here's what it sounds like he says listen it may not be Iran as strong as it was in New York but it's still 100 percent of running in Sicily and everything in Sicily is ran by them so do they still have a presence in New York or is the president still just all in Italy the strongest presence of of course is in Sicily and mainland in the US and I say when I say we I'm talking about the FBI another look you know other federal agencies and and I'm proud to say that our case was a catalyst because it showed that they weren't invincible then the FBI brought all these other cases on the mob today is just another organized crime group in the United States when I say to mom talk about the the American Mafia they're still in the gambling they're still in the drugs still still in the extortions but what they don't have which made them strong prior to the big push by the FBI they don't control all the labor unions like they did hmm they don't have politicians in their pocket like they did they don't not not like they did back in a day they don't have judges in their pocket like they did they don't have law enforcement in their pocket like they did you know back in the day you controlled the unions you control politicians you control the whole country they don't have that anymore they're basically no stronger than any other organized crime group in the US where prior to to us going after them in the you know in in in the 80s with with like I said and I'm proud of it that our case was the the catalyst that showed they're not invincible I mean you you have it on multiple different website where they talk about that the biggest undercover stories of FBI ever had multiple multiple multiple articles say yours is in the top five of the greatest ever to be able to last as long as you did you the only one that was in that in that world with the momma you're the only guy that was able to do it six years which is absolutely amazing to me to hear that did you ever hear from Giuliani did he ever call you and say congratulations good - yeah I've heard him say a few things about Judy was good Rudy was great you know what would be interesting you'd be interesting if in the same room as Joe Pistone Rudy Giuliani Michael Franzese he and a few guys and say hey you know to have that dialogue good conversation it'd be a great conversation that we can put together yeah we got a table so the only person we got to get a hold of is Giuliana if we get the three of us in the same room that would be a I'm sure your producers can do that I think we I think that maybe different I think be a great show I think we great you two kind of go through because you guys you positively impacted the safety of a city which is one of the greatest cities in the world some basics the greatest city in the world you positively impact that the safety of that city that's affected other people that are wanting to raise their kids there not have to worry about it one or forty five convictions it's fantastic so we're at the end so here's what I like to do you've written several books obviously you've been part of a few different projects the one I know about is Donnie Brasco Donnie you a Joe you could obviously sign this and and and maybe we'll do giveaway will give it away to some of the guys that can get that but you got a couple other books that you bring yes tell us about some of those projects Donnie Brasco my undercover life in the Mafia is the first book and then of course the the movie or that was a just Donnie Brasco and then I got a second book called unfinished business which is a continuation of my undercover life in the Mafia because I had other trials to go through because of this because of that so unfinished business brings it together I have another book called the weight of wiseguy and basically it is the way the wiseguy how wise guys act what wise guys do you know how they act when they go into a restaurant etc cetera but the two main books about the cases are my undercover life in a mafia and unfinished business so what we're gonna do is we're gonna put the links below for you to we'll put the links of all the three books below for you to go out there and get it for some of you that you haven't watched Donnie Brasco first all you got to go brother this Danny that the movie sends you really knows and residuals or no did you do you get anything from the movie or no for the movie be made of your story no I I don't because I you know well I I had about a 30-second scene in the movie now where I think I said five words so we're using either with with scene of the boat I'm gonna let you look at the moon oh my gosh the boat so if there's if there's a residual to me it's like you know twelve dollars or ten dollars because you know how that works your story and it's your story yeah unless you unless you're an actor it's a word yeah did you ever meet Johnny Depp and Pacino or no there was no more yeah no I spent a lot of time with Johnny and I spent a lot of time without prior you know prepping for the preppin for Lefty's role and and then I show him every day on set I was I was on set every day so every day as a technical advisor Wow so you were constantly advised that he wouldn't say this take this approach say this interesting experience that but it was great guys both great so guys go order his books if you haven't watched Donnie Brasco will tell you go watch it and you know I put a tweet the other day and I asked the question so tell me what are some of your favorite mafia mobster movies of all time and I wasn't hinting that I'm sitting with you today because you know the sensitivity aspect of it and then all of a sudden you know Godfather Carlito's Way and in Donnie Brasco Donnie Brasco Donnie Brasco so I asked so what'd you like about that me Bharat's good cuz I'm trying to see what they can you know it's the story of Jai don't know if you know pattice the stomach oh I didn't know that you know it's a now it's it's is I always you know get calls from different guys in and some colleges in their criminal justice courses use that book which one banning anymore yeah now you don't do a lot of interviews though when I when I see you not many know you done some documentary and go past oh you haven't seen a lot of stuff you've done the last 10 years yeah well first of all thank you for taking the time and spending time here with us your story is as fascinating as it gets my level of appreciation for your stories at the whole different level now that I get a chance to ask some of this question thank you but thank you so much thank you appreciation no thank you

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Views: 3,639,755

Rating: 4.7326832 out of 5

Keywords: Entrepreneur, Entrepreneurs, valuetainment, joe pistone, mafia, michael franzese, bonnano family, colombo family, donnie brasco, in the mob, mafia families, mafia documentary, rudy giuliani, how to be fbi, joe pistone story, mafia life, mafia story, gotti, john gotti, sonny black, mafia documantary

Id: 8v-X06Q04w4

Length: 74min 34sec (4474 seconds)

Published: Thu Apr 26 2018

Reddit Comments

[u/T0biasReaper]

If hes still alive hes not as hated as you think..... 100k price on his head is nothing, NADA

Wiseguys brought down were inevitable, if he was a priority he would have been gone long time ago

Its when it gets personal and I mean beyond money or guys that had it comin goin down, for a blank check on you. And if a High Table exists beyond american commision, it can go there. And no what idiot 13 year olds fantasize about here on reddit about what other familys besides triads, russians and italians? Yakuza maybe, but I doubt drug pushers, maybe chapo, I dunno. But in the underworlds there are underworlds themselves and dope is not main income of any of the above. In fact most despise traffiking....