Joe Rogan - Elon Musk on Artificial Intelligence

my question is like I know how much time you must be spending on your Tesla factory I know how much time you must be spending on SpaceX and you still have time to dig holes under the ground in LA and come up with these ideas and then implement I'm like I had a million ideas I'm sure you did no shortage of that yeah I just don't know how you manage your time I don't understand it it doesn't seem it it doesn't even seem humanly possible you know I do basically I think we all duck don't totally understand what I do with my time they think like I'm a business guy or something like that like my Wikipedia page says business magnate what would you call yourself a business magnate please change my Wikipedia page to magnet probably it's locked so somebody has to be able to unlock it and change it to magnets I'm gonna go what do we have magnets no I do engineering and you know and manufacturing and that kind of thing that's like 80% more more of my time ideas and then the implementation of those ideas that's like hard core engineering like you know designing things you know right structural mechanical electrical software user interface engineering aerospace engineering but you must understand there's not a whole lot of human beings like you you know that right - you're an odyssey UM's yes - chimps like me we're all chimps yeah we are we're one not one notch above a chimp some of us are a little more confused when I watch you doing all these things I'm like how is this [ __ ] have all this time and all this energy and all these ideas and then people just let him do these things because I'm an alien that's what I've speculated yes I'm on record saying this in the past I wonder it's true if there was one I was like if there was like maybe an intelligent being that we created you know like some AI creature that's a superior to people maybe they just hang around with us for a little while like you've been doing and then fix a bunch of [ __ ] maybe that's the way I might have a mutation or something like that you might do you think you do probably do you wonder like we around normal people you like hmm like what's up with these boring dumb [ __ ] ever not bad for a human but I think I will not be able to hold a candle to AI hmm you scared the [ __ ] out of me when you talk about AI between you and Sam Harris oh you're considerate until at a podcast with Sam wants everything right he made me [ __ ] my pants I talking about AI I realized like oh well this is a genie that once it's out of the bottle you're never getting it back in that's true there was a video that you tweeted about one of those Boston dynamic robots you know like in the future it'll be moving so fast you can't see without a strobe light yeah you could probably do that right now and no one's really paying attention to much other than people like you or people that are really obsessed with technology all these things are happening and these robots are do you see the one where it Peeta I'll put our statement that you shouldn't kick robots probably not wise for retribution if their memory is pretty good I bet it's really good it's really good I bet it is yes and getting better every day this is really good are you honestly legitimately concerned about this are you is like AI one of your main worries in regards to the future yes it it's less of a worry than it used to be mostly due to taking more of a fatalistic attitude hmm so you used to have more hope and you gave up some of it and now you don't work as much about AI you're like this is just what it is yeah pretty much it's no it's not necessarily bad it's just it's definitely gonna be outside of human control not necessarily bad right yes not it's not necessarily bad it's just it's just outside of human control now the thing that's going to be tricky here is the it's going to be very tempting to use AI as a weapon it's gonna be very tempting in fact will be used as weapon so the the the the on ramp to serious AI the danger is going to be more humans using it against each other I think most likely that'll be the danger yeah how far do you think we are from something that can make its own mind up whether or not something's ethically or morally correct or whether or not it wants to do something or whether or not it wants to improve itself whether or not it wants to protect itself from people or from other AI how far away we something from something that's really truly sentient well I mean you could not argue about any group of people like it like a company is essentially a cybernetic collective of people and machines that's what a company is and then there are different there's different levels of complexity and the way these companies are formed and then there are sort of is this like a collective AI in in the Google sort of search Google search you know the where we're also plugged in is like like nodes on the network like leaves on a big tree and we're all feeding this network without questions and answers we're all collectively programming Vai and the the and Google+ the older humans that connect to it are one giant cybernetic collective this is also true of Facebook and Twitter and Instagram and all these social networks they're giant cybernetic collectives humans and electronics all interfacing and constantly now constantly connected yes constantly one of the things that I've been thinking about a lot over the last few years is that one of the things that drives a lot of people crazy is how how many people are obsessed with materialism and getting the latest greatest thing and I wonder how much of that is well a lot of it is most certainly fueling technology and innovation and it almost seems like it's built into us it's like what we like and what we want that we're fueling this thing that's constantly around us all the time and it doesn't seem possible that people are going to pump the brakes it doesn't seem possible at this stage where we're constantly expecting the newest cell phone the latest Tesla update the newest MacBook Pro everything has to be newer and better and that's going to lead to some incredible point and it seems like it's built into us it almost seems like it's an instinct that we were working towards this that we'd like it mm-hmm our job just like the ants build the anthill our job is to somehow know the fuel this yes I mean I mean those comments um some years ago but it feels like we are the biological bootloader for AI effectively we are building it and then we're building progressively greater intelligence and the percentage of intelligence that is not human is increasing and eventually we will represent a very small percentage of intelligence but the the AI is informed strangely by the human limbic system it is in large part our it'd writ large how so we mentioned all those things the sort of primal drives mm-hmm there's all old things that we like and hate and fear they're all there on the Internet the projection of a limbic system no it makes sense and the thinking of it as a I mean think of thinking of corporations and just thinking of just human beings communicating online through these social media networks as some sort of an organism that's a it's a cyborg it's a it's a combination it's a combination of electronics and biology yeah this is in some it's a measure like is the success of these online systems is the is a is sort of a function of of how much limbic resonance they're able to achieve with people the more limbic resonance the more engagement hmm whereas like one of the reasons why I probably Instagram is more enticing than Twitter Olympic residence yeah you get more images more video yes tweaking your system more yes do you worry about what we're wonder in fact about what the next step is a lot of people didn't see Twitter coming that you know communicate with 140 characters or 280 now would be a thing that people would be interested in like it's gonna Excel it's gonna become more connected to us right yes things are getting more more connected there at this point constrained by bandwidth our input output is low particularly output awkward got worse with thumbs you know we use have input with 10 10 fingers and now we have thumbs but images are just are also are there a way of communicating at high bandwidth take pictures and you send pictures people what sends that's that communicates far more information than you can communicate with your thumbs so what happened with you where you decided or you took on a more fatalistic attitude like what was there any specific thing or was it just the inevitability of our future I try to convince people to slow down slow down AI to regulate AI this was futile I tried for years this you nobody seen in a movie over this robots take over it you're freaking me out nobody listened nobody listened no one are people more inclined to listen today it seems like an issue that's brought up more often over the last few years than it was maybe five ten years ago it seemed like science fiction maybe they will so far they haven't I think people don't be like the normally of the way that regulations work it's very slow very slow indeed so usually will be something some new technology it will cause damage or death there will be an outcry there will be an investigation years will pass there will be some sort of insight committee they will be rulemaking then there will be oversight eventually regulations this all takes many years this is the normal course of things if you look at say automotive regulations how long did it take for seatbelts to be to be implemented to be required you know the order industry fort seatbelts I think for more than a decade successfully fought any regulations on seatbelts even though the numbers were extremely obvious if you had a seatbelts on you would be far less likely to die will be seriously injured unequivocal and the industry fought this for years successfully eventually after many many people died regulators insisted on seatbelts if this is a this timeframe is not relevant to AI you can't take 10 years from the point of which is dangerous it's too late and you feel like this is decades away or years away from being too late if you have this fatalistic attitude and you feel like it's going we're in a almost like a doomsday countdown it's not necessarily a doomsday countdown it's it's a out-of-control countdown out of control yeah people call it the singularity and that's that's probably gonna be the thing about it it's a single error it's hard to predict like a black hole what happens past the event horizon right so once it's implemented it's very different cuz it what do you get out of the bottle what's gonna happen and it will be able to improve itself yes that's where it gets spooky right the idea that it can do thousands of years of innovation we're very very quickly yeah and then we'll be just ridiculous ridiculous we will be like this ridiculous biological [ __ ] pissing thing trying to stop the gods no stop we like we like living with a finite lifespan and and watching you know Norman Rockwell paintings it could be terrible and it could be great it's not clear right but what one thing is for sure we will not control it do you think that it's likely that we will merge somehow or another with this sort of technology and it'll augment what we are now or do you think it will replace us well that's the snart emerge scenario with AI is the one that seems like probably the best like for us yes like if you if you can't beat it join it that's yeah you know so from a long-term existential standpoint that's like the purpose of neuro-link is to create a high bandwidth interface to the brain such that we can be symbolic with AI because we have a bandwidth problem you just can't communicate through your fingers it's too slow and where's neural link at right now I think we'll have something interesting to announce in a few months that's at least an order of magnitude better than anything else probably I think better than probably anyone thinks as possible how much can you talk about that right now I don't jump the gun on that but what's like the ultimate what's what's the idea behind like what are you trying to accomplish with it what would you like best-case scenario I think this case scenario we effectively merge with AI where we AI serves as a tertiary cognition layer where we've got the limbic system kind of the primitive brain essentially you've got the cortex so you're currently in a symbiotic relationship with your cortex and limbic system are in a somatic relationship and generally people like their cortex and they like the Olympic system I haven't met anyone who wants to delete their limbic system or delete their cortex everybody seems sort of like both and the cortex is mostly in service to the limbic system people may think that that that their that the thinking part of themselves is in charge but it's mostly their limbic system that's in charge and the cortex is trying to make the limbic system happy that's what most of that computing power is aren't towards how can I make the limbic system happy that's what it's trying to do now if we do have a third layer which is the AI extension of yourself that is also somatic and there's enough bandwidth between the cortex and the AI extension of yourself such that the AI doesn't if facto separate then that could be a good outcome that could be quite a positive outcome for the future so instead of replacing us it will radically change our capabilities yes it will enable anyone who wants to have super human cognition anyone who wants this is not a matter of earning power because your earning power would be vastly greater after you do it so it's just like anyone who once can just do it in theory that's the theory and and if that's the case then and let's say billions of people do it then the outcome for Humanity will be the sum of of human will the sum of billions of people's desire for the future and that billions of people with enhanced cognitive ability radically enhance yes and that which would be it but how much different than people today look if you if you had to explain it to a person who didn't really not understand what you're saying how much different are you talking about when you say radically improved like what do you mean you mean mine read when read it will be difficult to to really appreciate the difference it's kind like how much smarter are you with a phone or computer than without it's your vastly smarter actually you know you can answer any question which if you're connected to the internet you know answer any question pretty much instantly any calculation the that your phone's memory is essentially perfect you can remember flawlessly go for your phone can remember videos pictures and everything perfectly that's the that your phone is already an extension of you you're already a cyborg you don't even almost will in rise they are already a cyborg it that phone is an extension of yourself it's just that the the data rate the rate at which the communication rate between you and the cybernetic extension of yourself that is your phone and computer is slow it's very slow and that that it's like a tiny straw of information flow between your biological self and your digital self and we need to make that tiny straw like a giant river a huge high bandwidth interface it's an interface problem data rate problem so the data rate problem that I think I think we can hang on to human-machine symbiosis through the long term and then people may decide that they want to retain their biological self or not I think they'll probably choose to retain develop biological self versus some sort of Ray Kurzweil scenario where they download themselves into a computer you will be essentially snapshot it into a computer at any time if your biological self dies you could just probably just upload into a new unit literally that down the rabbit hole grab that sucker give me some of that this is too freaky see if I was thinking about this for a long time by the way I believe yeah if I was talking to one line cheers by the way chairs yeah this is great whiskey thank you Underwood's came from who brought this to us trying to remember somebody gave it to us old camp whoever goes Thanks good yeah it is good um this is just inevitable again going back to your when you decided to be half of this fatalistic viewpoints so you weren't you tried to warn people you talked about this pretty extensively I've read several interviews where you talked about this and then you just sort of just said okay it just is well it's just and you in a way you're by communicating the potential fear I mean for sure you're you're getting the warning out to some people yeah yeah I mean if I was really going on the warning quite quite loud morning everyone I could you've met with Obama and just for one reason look just about AI yes and what did he say so what about Hillary worry about her first no I he listened he certainly listened I met with Congress I met with I was out of meeting of all 50 governors and talked about just a AI danger and I talked to everyone I could no one seemed to realize where this was going is it that or do they just assume that someone smarter than them was already taking care of it because when people hear about something like AI thought it's almost abstract it's almost it's almost like it's so it's so hard to wrap your head around it by the time it already happens it'll be too late yeah I think they didn't quite her to understand it or didn't think it was near term or not sure what to do about it and I said like you know an obvious thing to do is to just establish a committee government committee to gain insight you know before before you oversight before you do make regulations you should like to try to understand what's going on and then if you have a insight committee then the once they learn what's going on get up to speed then they can make maybe some rules will propose some rules and and that would be probably a safer way to go about things it seems I mean I know that it's probably something that the government's supposed to handle but it seems like I wouldn't want the I don't want the government to handle this who do you want - I want you to handle oh geez yeah I feel like you're the one who could ring the bell better cuz if if Mike Pence starts talking about a I'm like shut up [ __ ] you don't know anything about AI come on man he hasn't always talking about me but I don't have the power to regulate other companies right maybe companies could agree maybe there could be some sort of a I mean there's we have agreements where you're not supposed to dump toxic waste into the ocean you're not supposed to do certain things that could be terribly damaging even though they'll be profitable maybe this is one of those things maybe we should realize that you can't hit the switch on something that's going to be able to think for itself and make up its own mind as to whether or not it wants to survive or not and whether or not thinks you're a threat and whether I think you're useless like why do I keep this dumb finite life-form alive why why keep this thing around it's just stupid it just keeps polluting everything [ __ ] everywhere it goes lighting everything on fire and shooting each other why would I keep this stupid thing alive because sometimes it makes good music you know sometimes it makes great movies sometimes it makes beautiful art and sometimes you know sometimes it's cool to hang out with yeah all those reasons yeah for us those are great reasons yes but for anything objectives standing outside like oh this is definitely a flawed system this

Channel: JRE Clips

Views: 5,397,536

Rating: 4.8813648 out of 5

Keywords: Joe Rogan, JRE, Joe Rogan Experience, JRE Clips, PowerfulJRE, Joe Rogan Fan Page, Joe Rogan Podcast, podcast, MMA, Joe Rogan MMA Show, UFC, comedy, comedian, stand up, funny, clip, favorite, best of, Elon Musk

Id: Ra3fv8gl6NE

Length: 24min 56sec (1496 seconds)

Published: Thu Sep 06 2018

Reddit Comments

[u/yogthos]

This interview with Ted Chiang is very illuminating in my opinion.