Elon Musk Reveals New Details About Neuralink, His Brain Implant Technology

the jurgen experience fundamentally well let's talk about what you can talk about to what neural link is because the last time you were here you really couldn't discuss it and then there was a i guess a press release or something that sort of outlined yeah that that happened quite a bit after the last time you were here so what exactly is it how do you do what what happens if someone ultimately does get a neural link installed what will take place well for version one of the device it would be um it basically implanted in your skull so uh but it would be so flush with your skull so you're basically take out a chunk of skull replace put the neurologic device in there um you put the the electrode you'd insert the electrode threads very carefully into the brain and uh and then you you know stitch it up and um and you wouldn't even know that somebody has it um and then and and so then it it can interface basically anywhere in anywhere in your brain so it could be something that uh you know helps cure say uh eyesight like give you returns your eyesight even if you've like lost your optic nerve type of thing uh really yeah yeah absolutely hearing obviously um i mean pretty much anything that where that it could in principle fix almost anything that is wrong with the brain and it could it could restore uh limb functionality so if you've got a interface into the motor cortex and then an implant that's say that's like a microcontroller near muscle groups you could then create a sort of a neural shunt that restores somebody who's a quadriplegic to full functionality like they can walk around be normal whoa yeah so maybe slightly better slightly better over time yes you mean with future iterations like the you know six million dollar man although these days that would that doesn't that's pretty much yeah yeah six billion dollars so the the whole would be small how big would the hole be that you have to drill and then replace with this piece there's only one hole well um yeah the device we're working on right now is about it's about an inch in diameter and your skull is pretty thick by the way so skulls are mine is for sure it might actually literally be um i mean if you're a big if you're a big guy your skull is actually fairly thick um skulls like it's like seven to 14 millimeters um so that's probably a couple inches a half inch you know half inch thick skull ish so um yeah yeah so that that's a fair bit of like our our we got quite a coconut gun on there it's not it's not like some eggshell oh yeah i believe you um so the yeah you basically implant the device uh and so you would be like a one inch square or one inch in diameter yeah like so an inch circle like a circular yeah i think like a like a smart watch or something like that okay yeah okay so you take this one-inch diameter like ice fishing right you ever go ice fishing um no but i'd like to it's great yeah it's really fun so you basically take an auger and you you drill through the surface of the ice yeah and you create a small hole and you can dunk your line in there so this is like that you're ice fishing on the top of your skull and then you cork it yeah and you replace that um say one inch diameter piece of skull with the this neural link device um and that has a battery and a and a bluetooth and a inductive charger um and then you and and now then you've also got to insert the electrodes uh so the electrodes are very carefully inserted uh with our with a robot that we developed uh that's very carefully putting in the electrodes and avoiding you know and any veins or arteries uh so it's you know doesn't create trauma so through this one-inch diameter device electrodes be inserted and they will find their way like tiny wires basically tiny wires and they'll find their way to specific areas of the brain to stimulate no you literally put them where they're supposed to go oh okay yeah how long will these wires be uh i mean they usually go in like you know depending on where it is like you know two or three millimeters so they just find the spots yeah wow um and then um yeah then you put the device in and that that gets that that replaces the little piece of skull that was taken out and then you you stitch up the hole and and then you just have it look like a little scar and that's it well this would be replaceable or reversible yes like if someone can't take it anymore i'm too smart i can't take it yeah you can totally check it out and what is the besides restoring limb function and eyesight and hearing which are all amazing is there any cognitive benefits that you anticipate from something like this uh yeah i mean you could for sure um uh i mean basically it's a generalized um sort of uh think for for fixing any kind of brain injury in principle like if you or if you've got like like severe epilepsy or something like that it could it could just it could just sort of stop the epilepsy from occurring like it could detect it in real time and then fire a counter pulse and stop the epilepsy um if um i mean there's a whole range of brain injuries like if somebody gets a stroke they could lose the ability to speak that that'll that could also be fixed so if you've got like stroke damage or if you lose say you know muscle control over part of your face or something like that i think and then when you get old you tend to if you get like you know alzheimer's or something like that then you lose memory and this could help you with you know restoring your memory that kind of thing restoring memory and what what is happening that's allowing it to do that like the wires these small wires yeah stimulating these areas of the brain and then is it that the areas of the brain are they're they're losing some sort of electrical force like what it what is happening yeah yeah so it's like it's like i think it's like a bunch of circuits and there's some like circuits that are broken and we can like uh fix those circuits substitute for those circuits and so a specific frequency will go through this yeah specific in that would is the process figuring out how much or how little has to be how much these areas of the brain have to be juiced up yeah i mean there's still a lot of work to do so when i say you know we got a shot at probably putting it in in a person in you know within a year i think that that's that's what that's exactly what i mean i think we have a chance of putting input into one end having them having them be healthy and and restoring some functionality that they've lost the fear is that eventually you're gonna have to cut the whole top of someone's head off and put a new top with a whole bunch of wires if you want to get you know the real turbocharged version the p100d of brain stimulation i mean ultimately if you if you want to go with full ai symbiosis you'll probably want to do something like that symbiosis is a scary word when it comes to ai it's optional would hope so yeah it's just i mean once you enjoy the dr manhattan lifestyle once you once you become a god seems very very unlikely you're going to want to go back to being stupid again i mean you literally could fundamentally change the way human beings interface with each other yes yes you wouldn't need to talk [Laughter] i'm so scared of that but so excited about it at the same time is that weird yeah i mean the i think this is one of the paths to um you know like think like what like ai is getting better and better um so now let's assume it's sort of like a benign ai scenario uh even in a benign scenario we're kind of left behind you know we're we're not we're not along for the ride um we're just too dumb right so so how do you go along for the ride um yeah so you can't beat them join them so um and we're already we're already a cyborg to some degree right because you've got your phone you've got your laptop glasses yeah yeah electronic devices and um i mean today if your phone if you if you don't bring your phone along it's like you have mussing limb syndrome that's like you know feels like something's really really missing so we're already partly part you know partly a cyborg or an ai symbiote essentially um it's just that the data rate to the electronics is slow so especially output like you're just going with your thumbs i don't know like what's your data rate maybe optimistically 100 bits per second that's being generous um and now the computer can communicate at like you know 100 100 terabits you know so so certainly you know gigabits are a trivial at this point so this this is like you know basically you can your computer could do a mill do things a million times faster or at a certain point it's like talk they as like talking to a tree okay this is boring you talk to a tree it's very not very entertaining um so um so if you if you can solve the the data rate issue and you're especially output but input two then you can improve the symbiosis that is already occurring between mana machine so you you can improve it in what when you said you won't have to talk to each other anymore we used to joke around about that i i've joked around about that a million times in this podcast that one day in the future there's going to come a time where you can read each other's minds and well you'll be able to interface with each other in some sort of a non-verbal non-physical way where you will transfer data back and forth to each other without having to actually use your mouth yeah make noises exactly so when you like what happens when you when like let's say you've got some complex idea that you're trying to convey to somebody else and how do you do that well your brain spends a lot of effort compressing a complex concept into words and there's a there's a lot a lot of loss information loss that occurs when compressing a complex concept into words and then you say those words those words are then interpreted then they're decompressed by the person who is listening and they they will at best get a very incomplete understanding of what you're trying to convey it's very difficult to convey a complex concept with precision because you've got compression decompression you may not even have heard all the words correctly and so communication is difficult you know what we have here is a failure to communicate to coolant luke yes and there's a great movie yeah there's an interpretation factor too like you can choose to interpret certain series of words in in different ways and they're dependent upon tone dependent upon social cues even facial expressions sarcasm there's a lot of variables sarcasm is difficult yes yeah and so one of the things that i i've said is like that there could be potentially a universal language that's created through computers that particularly young kids would pick up very quickly like my kids do tick tock and all this jazz and i don't know what they're doing they just know how to do it and they know how to do it really quickly like they learn really quickly and they show me how to edit things and yeah it's if you taught a child from first grade on how to use some new universal language i mean essentially like a rosetta stone and something that's done with that interprets your thoughts and you can convey your thoughts with no room for interpretation with clear very clear that where you know what a person's saying and you can tell them what you're saying and there's no need for noises no need for mouth noises no need for these sort of accepted ways that we've uh sort of evolved to make sounds that we all agree we through our cultural dictionary and right we agree or certainly we could bypass all that yeah we could still do it for for sentimental reasons right like campfires yeah exactly i don't need campfires i don't need to roast marshmallows it's kind of fun right so yeah um yeah i think you would in principle you would be able to communicate very quickly and with far more precision uh ideas uh and and language would i'm not sure what would happen to language but you could probably within a situation like this that you would be able to just look kind of like the matrix you you want to speak a different language no problem right that's why it was downloaded the program right so at least for the first iterations first few iterations we'll just be able to use like i know that google has uh their some of their pixel buds have the ability to interpret languages in real time sure yeah you can hear it and they'll it'll play things back to you and whatever language you choose so to be something along those lines yeah for the first few iterations well the first few iterations are i mean what i'm talking about is like in the limit over time you know with a lot of development um the first few iterations really in the first few versions all we're going to be trying to do is solve brain injuries um so so it's like don't don't don't worry that it's not going to sneak up on you this this will take a while how many years before you don't have to talk if the if if the development continues to accelerate then maybe like five years five to ten years that's quick that's really quick that's the best case scenario no talking anymore in five years best case scenario but i'm 10 10 years more like it i've always speculated that aliens could potentially be us in the future because if you look at like the size of their heads and the fact that they have very little muscle and then they don't use their mouth anymore there's tiny little i mean the archetypal alien that you see in like closing counters are the third kind they they're like if you went from like uh australopithecus or ancient homicide to us what's the difference less hair less muscle bigger head and then just keep going a thousand a million whatever you or five years whatever whatever happens when neurolink goes on online and then we slowly start to adapt to this new way of being where we don't use our muscles anymore we have this gigantic head we can talk without words you could also save state and save state save state like save your brain state like like a saved game in a video game whoa like like if you want to swap from windows 95 well i play a little better than that but yeah i think we are windows 95 right now from a future perspective probably um but yeah i mean you you could uh save state um and restore that state into a biological being if you if you wanted to in the future in principle it's like nothing like from a physics standpoint that prevents us now you'd be a little different but then you're also a little different when you wake up in the morning from yesterday and you're a little different in fact if you say like you five years ago versus you today is quite a big difference yes um so you'd be substantially you i mean you'd be you'd certainly think you're you but the idea of saving yourself and then transforming that into some sort of a biological state like you could hang out with 30 year old you i mean the possibilities are endless um that's so weird i mean these things think like how your phone can you can record videos on your phone like there's no way you could remember a video right as accurately as your phone or a camera you know could so uh now if you've got like it you know some some you know version 10 euro link or whatever and far in the future you could you could remember you could recall everything but just like it's a movie concluding all the entire sensory experience emotions everything everything everything and play it back and you should edit it edit it yeah so you can change your past you could change what do you think was your past yeah well so if you had like a tremendous thing right now it could be a replayed memory it could be yeah it may be what's the odds of this being a replayed memory if you had a guess it's more than 50 there's no way to assign a probability with accuracy here right but roughly if you just had a just gut instinct well i don't have a neural link in my brain so i'd say right now zero percent but at the point at which you do have a neural link then it rises above zero percent the idea that we're experiencing some sort of a preserved memory is uh even though it's still the same it's not comforting right for some reason when we people talk about simulation theory they talk about the potential for this currently being a simulation it even though your life might be wonderful you might be in love you might love your career you might have great friends but it's not comforting to know that this experience somehow or another doesn't exist in a material form that you can knock on it feels real feels real but but if it's not but the idea that it's not is for some strange reason disconcerting well yeah i'm sure it should be disconcerting because then if this is not real what is right but but the you know there's that old sort of um thought experiment of like how do you know you're not a brain in a vat you know i mean now here's the thing you are a brain an event then that fat is your skull yes and everything you see feel here everything all your senses are electrical signals everything everything is an electrical signal to up to a brain in a vat with a bacterial skull and all your hormones all your neurotransmitters all these things are drugs adrenaline's a drug dopamine's a drug you're a drug factory you're constantly changing your state with love and oxytocin and and beauty sure changes your state great music changes your state absolutely and yet here's another sort of interesting idea which is um because you say like where did consciousness arise well assuming you believe the belief in physics which appears to be true um then you know we the universe started off as basically quarks and leptons and it quickly became hydrogen and of helium lithium like basically elements the periodic table but it was like mostly hydrogen basically um and then and then over a long period of time uh you know 13.8 billion years later that hydrogen became sentient so where along the way did conju where is the consciousness what's the line of consciousness and not consciousness right between hydrogen and here right when do we call it when do we call it consciousness i was watching a video today that we played on a podcast earlier of a monkey riding a motorcycle down the street jumps off the motorcycle and tries to steal a baby yeah so that one they went is that monkey conscious it seems like it is it seems like it had a plan it was riding a [ __ ] motorcycle and then jumped off the motorcycle to try to steal a baby it seems pretty the one that just strike baby down the street pretty far yeah yeah seems pretty conscious right there's definitely some degree of consciousness there yeah it's not like it's not a worm it seems to be on another level yeah and it's going to keep going and that that's the real concern when when people think about the potential future versions of human beings especially when you consider symbiotic relationship to artificial intelligence it will be unrecognizable that one day we'll be so far removed from what this is we'll look back on this the way we look back now on you know simple simple organisms that we evolved from and then it won't be that far in the future that we do have this this view back well i hope consciousness propagates into the future and it gets more more sophisticated and complex and and that it understands the questions to ask about the universe do you think that's the case as a human being as yourself you're clearly trying to make conscious decisions to be a better version of you right this is the idea of like getting rid of your possessions and realizing that you're trying to like i don't like this i will try to improve this i will try to do a better version of the way i interface with reality that this is always the way things are if you're if you're moving in a some sort of a direction where you're trying to improve things you're always going to move into this new place where you look back in the old place and go i was doing it wrong back then so this is an accelerated version of that a super accelerated version of that i mean you don't always improve but you can aspire to improve you can aspire to be less wrong yeah this is like i think a good the tools of physics are very powerful like just assume you're wrong and you're asking your goal to be less wrong i don't think you're gonna if you succeed every day and being less wrong but you know if you're gonna succeed in being less wrong most of the time you're doing great that's a great way of putting aspire to be less wrong but then when you know people look back at nostalgia about simpler times there's that too it's very romantic and exciting to look back on campfires but you can still have a campfire yes yeah but will you appreciate it when you're a super nerd when you're connected to the grid and you have some uh skull cap in place of the top of your head and it's interfacing with the inner international language that the rest of the universe now enjoys communication with people and we're yeah sure i think so yeah i like empires you

Channel: JRE Clips

Views: 3,249,517

Rating: 4.7679491 out of 5

Keywords: Joe Rogan, JRE, Joe Rogan Experience, JRE Clips, PowerfulJRE, Joe Rogan Fan Page, Joe Rogan Podcast, podcast, MMA, Joe Rogan MMA Show, UFC, comedy, comedian, stand up, funny, clip, favorite, best of

Id: Gqdo57uky4o

Length: 25min 3sec (1503 seconds)

Published: Thu May 07 2020

Reddit Comments

[u/QSH2426]

I replayed the clip and if it ever got to v10 it would be the most mind blowing (pun intended) thing!

I do like how it’s strictly for fixing damaged parts of your brain for the first versions!

[u/Janicc]

It's awesome that Joe Rogan is so interested in Neuralink and this technology. We got tons of information due to all his questions.

[u/RazzyTaz]

Speaking on his save state comments, that reminds me of that AMA of that lady who wakes up everyday thinking it's still October 2014. Although its from brain injury, it does give an idea of what a save state would potentially look like. It also looks like this kind of technology has the potential help her too.

[u/lokujj]

• He addresses removal and replacement (not well, imo) around 5:10.
• Addresses promise to have device in a person within a year around 7:18.
• He explains the advantage of a highly-parallel interface well around 11:26.
• Rogan asks how long it will take around 15:02. Musk says "this will take a while". Rogan: "How many years before you don't have to talk?". Musk says maybe 5-10 years in best-case scenario.
• Around 23:57, Musk offers some useful advice for billionaires on Twitter.

[u/liani_does]

Take my money! I wish we could invest in this new tech.

[u/[deleted]]

I can't help but think about Sword Art Online whenever I hear about new Neuralink info.

[u/Kaje26]

“Fix anything wrong with the brain”. If it could fix my crippling fatigue and depression... wow.

[u/Nathan_3518]

Elon Musk loves campfires guys. The world is saved.

[u/deekaydubya]

I've been out of the loop for awhile, but has anything else been said about the tests using monkeys? I remember Elon letting something slip during the initial announcement but haven't heard anything since