How to Talk to Mormon Missionaries (Intro to the CES Letter)

hello my name is elder snow no I'm not doing that today I an ex-mormon I'm going to suggest to you how we should treat Mormon missionaries when they come to the door I'm mister atheists let's do this [Music] welcome back to dear mr. atheist and I need to give a little bit of credit where credit is due I kind of stole this idea I got their approval but tell-tell a couple weeks ago he did a video that's actually blowing up right now called how to talk to cult recruiters and when I saw that I thought it was a brilliant idea and so I wanted to actually talk specifically about how to talk to Mormon missionaries now I'm not gonna get into whether or not Mormonism is a cult I tend to think so I came from it it seems to line up with the bite model but that's not the point of today's video but if you live in America and many other countries as well chances are some Mormon missionaries have knocked on your door at some point usually boys 18 to 27 and they usually want to talk to you about religion and to share a message about God and some good news and good developments and share with you their Holy Bible fan fiction and let's split this into two first we'll talk about the actual way to talk to a Mormon and the way to expect them to talk to you but then additionally the actual questions that I might suggest you ask and I went with ones that I think are gonna be the most interesting and prevent them from holding to their normal sales pitch so for the first section and this one's gonna be quick and you could probably predict it if you know me well enough how should you actually talk to Mormon missionaries I want to start off with this these are humans they're people they're young they're very indoctrinated many of them naive and sheltered keep in mind that they are there for two years well a little shorter than two years because first they go to this training center where they learn how to start the sales pitch and and and they learn how to amend it but they are people so be kind be compassionate if you just want to end the whole thing immediately there is nothing wrong with saying no thanks I'm not interested in shut the door now keep in mind that as part of their training they will have been taught to be very nice to be very kind when advantageous they might come off a little flirty but generally they're going to be positive all smiles speak confidently and and try to sort of give off this authority that they might know despite being children basically that they might know some some great thing about the and design in the grand plan of God they also might try and use phrases just to get you to start asking questions to get the foot in the door in the hopes that the curiosity about the things that that you've heard about Mormonism that they can correct it and then take you down whatever Avenue they think would be the most advantageous so my advice just be kind but keep in mind they're gonna have somewhere between this really nice presentation to this kind of hard sales presentation and don't feel like you've done something wrong if at some point you have to say listen I'm not comfortable with you here I'd like you to leave but if you decide to engage there's nothing wrong with being cordial but also firm in asking questions and look for direct answers last little thing of this section also one thing Mormons will do Mormon missionaries is when you say no I'm not interested they'll go okay well listen do you know anybody do you have a neighbor or a friend who might like to hear a message about and I know the old way it went was like a message about modern prophets and Jesus Christ and America and things like that sort of again it's a specific thing that yes they want the referrals from you too and if you give it to them they're gonna they're gonna even say like hey so-and-so said you might like to hear this but also to throw out a few more key words to be like wait what are you talking about modern prophets so that kind of thing also to give them referrals you should think better of your friends and family moving on to the kinds of questions you could ask if you decide you want to engage and I'm not saying you need to hold them there and waste their time but I'd say there are two good reasons to do so one Mormonism isn't true I'll just say that out unequivocally and while it would be naive to expect it there is always the possibility that some question or conversation you have with these lads is going to trigger their actual critical thinking and might be the reason they leave the church ultimately and second if you're a skeptic any moment they're talking to you is a moment they're not talking to somebody who is gullible who is vulnerable and who these pitches that come with community that come with certain social advantages basically you might be saving your neighbor from a life of believing a lie so when I decided to come up with some questions that you can ask first I kind of thought about the things that bothered me and many of the things that triggered my personal exit out of the church but then after watching Telltale's video about how to talk to cult recruiters I decided to adopt a certain order of these things specifically one of the things he talked about is questioning the leadership and questions about the leaders that's where he started but I act you want to talk a little bit more about the lifestyle stuff that you might ask a cult recruiter or Mormon missionaries I would actually say start there start there so you can put them on their toes so that they know you know they don't at least conform with our modern-day understanding of humanity society and the cultural expectations of people if you are a part of a certain community that the church oppresses I would start with questions there so if you are a member of the LGBTQ community I would start with the question of what does the church think of transgender identities or why does the church still try to fight gay marriage initiatives worldwide when they talk about religious freedom but they don't want to offer that religious freedom to people who are gay the most recent case I can think of was in Australia where they very much tried to make sure gay marriage did not pass there the expectations and treatment of women in the church are also something that's problematic so another social question to ask them would be what are the expectations and ideal outcomes of women in the Mormon Church what does the perfect Mormon woman look like to Mormons now by now they've probably already tried to correct you they don't want to be called Mormons anymore they want to be called members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints I've kind of come to the conclusion that as soon as they start respecting the identities of other basically LGBTQ folks I will go ahead and abide that even though it's a two syllable phrase versus the rest thank you for mine they still have the Mormon branding on a lot of stuff now let's get into the actual nitty-gritty facts about Mormonism that do invalidate it a lot of what we're talking about here is went over very well in a document it's basically a little book at this point called the CES letter if you are a questioning Mormon you need to read the CES letter it is not abrasive it is not combative it is literally just a list of complications and facts and things that we know about science history and Mormonism and it is basically one person's letter to a CES director asking why all of these things are this way when the church has reported it differently or that the church is meant to be true even though these things seem to point to maybe it's not and reading this document has been the triggering moment for many now ex Mormons because it lays out the case very clearly so let's start with Joseph Smith questions to ask them about Joseph Smith Joseph Smith claims to have met God and Jesus Christ somewhere in New York and be told about starting a new church to be the true Church Mormons refer to this as the first vision I have a video on my channel I have a link below that kind of lays out the first vision anyway the first question you might ask about this first vision is why did Joseph Smith have four different accounts by his own account that had contradictory details that change how old he was when it happened who he met with and also contradicted his teachings that God and Jesus were one in the same and that didn't change till later and why is it that no one even heard of this account because it wasn't written down for 12 years and wasn't reported by other people for 22 years after the supposed event happened next I would move into the realm of polygamy regarding Joseph Smith now in general Mormon missionaries are probably gonna be ready for general polygamy questions and they're gonna have ways to justify and say look to the Bible here's times that God used polygamy and so it is more specific questions that I don't think they're gonna be as ready for now if this video becomes popular enough obviously they're going to adjust that but here are some questions that I think are worth asking the Doctrine and Covenants which is sort of the Mormons modern-day scriptures most of which were written by Joseph Smith states that polygamy was only used for replenishing the earth basically a way to shore up numbers so why did Joseph Smith marry multiple married women women who are already married and in some case already carrying children and having children with their spouses additionally why did Joseph Smith marry multiple teenage girls now a lot of times they're gonna talk about that was the cultural norm however that's not actually true even by 19th century standards his youngest wife that we know of was a 14 year old and that was still considered pedophilia at that time Mormons also like to say well we don't have actual proof they ever had sex however there is enough accounts that that is generally what he did with the other women he married and by the way his first polyamorous relationship that there's a lot of argument about whether or not it was an affair or an actual polygamous marriage and by the way it was an affair polygamy was used after to cover it up was to a sixteen-year-old with whom he had sex with so we are talking about it two-year difference here in general he did have relationships with many teenage girls and it seems extremely likely that he had a relationship with this fourteen-year-old that was sexual also why did Joseph in getting some of these underage teenage girls to marry him threaten their family's exaltation and also his own life saying he would be destroyed by like a fiery sword maybe was that that I think that is but that he would be destroyed if they didn't that they had to because he was being threatened by God or angels to be destroyed one more thing from the Joseph Smith stuff and then we're gonna move on to some science things something very much worth asking about Joseph Brigham Young and many presidents after the church in general have claimed that Native Americans are the ancient offspring of Jews that they come from Jerusalem and a fleeing of Jerusalem around 600 BC so this is actually a hybrid thing this is about Joseph and the science and the way things didn't match up the Book of Mormon claims that these ancient cultures numbered in the millions and there are no other groups like that in the world that we haven't been able to find evidence of much smaller populations in fact and in fact they talk about wars and things happening in the millions they talk about refined steel before refined steel was a thing The Book of Mormon also claims horses elephants and honeybees were on the American continent long before they made it to the American continent modern anthropology and DNA science invalidates all of these claims so why is the Book of Mormon so incompatible with scientific reality additionally Joseph claimed to translate some sarcophaguses this was after the Book of Mormon that he had received and he created a key to show the way he was interpreting these symbols that key has actually been discovered and totally invalidated since the discovery of the Rosetta Stone it is also very clear by the order that that key shows up in that the pearl of great price is indeed the suppose a translation of that sarcophagus of those sarcophagi sarcophaguses whatever it is so why is the pearl of great price still included after the Book of Mormon as literal translations and books of Abraham and Moses when it has been absolutely and completely debunked additionally as far as translation things goes why did Joseph Smith incorrectly translate a set of plates called the Kinderhook plates which were a forgery meant to catch him in his lie and he did then lie and claim to be able to translate them now a few more questions relating to science and Mormonism modern-day science have totally invalidated a worldwide flood the literal existence of Adam and Eve as well as people living beyond some 500 to 800 to over a thousand years I think in some biblical cases but the Mormon Church not only teach these things are still happening they are actually a very important part of their temple ceremony if they were to say like the Catholics say yes Adam and Eve that's just a story we're just meant to learn from it they would actually invalidate a lot which is dr. know so why do they believe in a doctrine that is dependent on these things that we know did not and could not have happened we know the evolutionary line of humans it does not come back to a single point some 4,000 to 10,000 years ago depending on which which version of events are going with we know there was not a global flood 4000 years ago and we know that the lifespan of humans have never exceeded a hundred years so why do they still maintain this doctrine of being literal fact they don't necessarily hold on to young Earth Creationism there are lots of Mormons who believe in evolution and everything else but there is this incompatible thing of the story of Adam and Eve and the global flood that they do still hold on to and then finally those things which are important to the Mormon temple ceremony why is it that the temple endowment ceremony is in so many parts just a ripoff from Masonic Temple ceremonies during this great apostasy that Mormons believe happened did the ancient Stonecutters actually commune with God are the Masons just Mormonism light it might have suggest a deal also that you could suggest to these young Mormon recruiters they are probably going to offer you a book of Mormon so perhaps offer an exchange again you don't have to do this but if you feel so moved - and this is my plan for the future offer them a trade they read the hundred pages or so of the CES letter and you will read a hundred pages of the Book of Mormon and have a meeting in the future to compare notes so links that you can find below today I will have a link to the CES letter a link to my video on the first vision and a link to Telltale's video on how to talk to Colt recruiters again don't be violent don't be mean don't call them names if you'd like them to go simply tell them and shut the door if you'd like to waste some of their time and chance actually doing them a service follow the questions we've talked about and that is it for today big little announcement little big announcement today the channel is one years old we are closing in on about a hundred and twenty five thousand subscribers that is absolutely incredible and I want to say thank you to you all to mark the occasion we are launching a new actual like merch store merch store right now there are shirts and hoodies in it more variations are coming in and we'll be adding new stuff every month a link to that merch store can be found below if you loved today's video won't you hit that subscribe button if you like today's video hit the like button and if you hated today's video go kick rocks or click dislike I don't care links to support the channel can be found below including a link to patreon where my book review series comes out early right now I'm reviewing the girl to find book you can also find links to Pay Pal and the Amazon wishlist if you want to help out with studio things or pampering my pets follow me on twitter and instagram at dear mister atheists and suggest new videos and topics over on our reddit page here are my list of patrons who keep the lights on and i so appreciate for investing in my channel here a few video suggestions including my telling of the first vision a special thank you to my orbital teapots Karissa Mia commander Bork Maya Ashley and Alison today's patron of the day is Connie would love I've been Jimmy snow mister atheist wasn't my father

Channel: Mr Atheist

Views: 183,581

Rating: 4.9253583 out of 5

Keywords: joseph smith, ces letter, book of mormon, jeremy runnells, the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints (religion), mormon church, mormon stories, mr atheist, dear mr atheist, How to Talk to Mormon Missionaries, CES Letter, church of jesus christ of latter day saints, How To Talk To Cult Recruiters, jimmy snow, telltale cult

Id: JIkawv663Nk

Length: 14min 2sec (842 seconds)

Published: Thu Feb 14 2019

Reddit Comments

[u/ObsidianThurisaz]

All the time. He’s quickly becoming one of my favorite YouTubers.

[u/All_Unknowning]

I do! :D He's pretty awesome

[u/af7v]

I really do like Jimmy's channel. He's clever, smart, honest.

[u/RealDaddyTodd]

The word he wants in place of "sarcophagus" is "papyrus".

Sarcophagus is the coffin. Papyrus is the scroll.

[u/MsMissingHitchens]

Of course I don’t check several times a day for new content?!? Do you think I’m obsessed?!?😂😂😂

[u/Archery134]

/r/Dear_Mr_Atheist

[u/[deleted]]

He is one of my favorite YouTubers. Weird how his stuff isn’t on the exmormon subreddit that much.