You may be seated. Hello, Your Honor. Hello. This is the case of <i>
Lide v. Ellis.</i> Thank you, Jerome.
Good day, everyone. AUDIENCE: Good day. Ms. Lide, you say
that for 26 years, you have known
only one man, the defendant, Mr. Ellis,
to be your biological father. And you're devastated that he is claiming
you're not his. Yes, Your Honor. JUDGE LAKE: Mr. Ellis,
you say that Ms. Lide's mother was unfaithful during your
seven-year relationship and that you are certain you are not Ms. Lide's
biological father. You are here
to prove that in court
and to clear your name. Yes, Your Honor. So Ms. Lide,
how was your relationship with Mr. Ellis growing up? Um, I didn't really have
a relationship with Mr. Ellis growing up. Um, it was just me
and my mom. I've been in and out
of group homes,
foster homes. Um, no male role model
in my life. It's been hard. I had a long,
hard life growing up. When you hear her
talk about her life
without you, the man she believes
is her biological father, how does that make you feel? I feel for her and all,
but I'm not her father. I mean, her mother,
she disappears weeks at a time,
out there partying. I mean...
Bright as she is. I mean, I ain't
no doctor or nothing, but I'm pretty sure
two people's this color ain't gonna make no baby
this bright skinned. I mean, she was
practically white. I don't feel like
that's correct because my son was white with black hair and blue eyes. And I'm not white. I don't have blue eyes. JUDGE LAKE: Mr. Ellis,
you know that babies come in all shapes, sizes,
and shades of color, especially
African-American children. LOUIS: Yes, Your Honor. But like I said,
she was out there partying, disappearing
for weeks at a time. JUDGE LAKE: That's the doubt
I wanna hear about. That's what
I wanna understand. LOUIS: With no money. How is she doing
all this partying, disappearing
for weeks at a time
with no money? I mean... JUDGE LAKE:
And so you're saying you were in a relationship
with her mother? LOUIS: Yes, I was. And it was a sexual
relationship? Yes, it was. JUDGE LAKE: And it was
a sexual relationship where you did not
use protection? Yes, Your Honor. JUDGE LAKE: However,
what you're saying is her mother
also was having sex and intimate relationships
with other men
during that time? LOUIS: Yes, Your Honor. And what proof do you have of that?
Do you recall? No, Your Honor,
the only proof I have is by her disappearing weeks
at a time, Your Honor. That's why I called
the, the court so she can really
find her, uh, real...
Her true father, and quit blaming it on me. My mom has never
ever lied to me. (STAMMERING) And you are... And you are...
Yeah, you are right. Even when
things got bad, when it got worse,
my mom has never
lied to me. LOUIS:
But when I was away, your mother sent
Child Support on me. They did a DNA test. I gave her the papers. They've gone
through my check. Was there any record... JUDGE LAKE:
Mr. Ellis, explain that. You, you had
a DNA test already. LOUIS: Yes. Explain. LOUIS: When I was away,
her mother called Child Support on me. They came and took
the DNA test. JUDGE LAKE:
You got the results back? LOUIS: I got
the results back,
it was 99.9 that I wasn't the father. So I showed her
the paperwork. She don't want...
She don't wanna hear it. 99.9% that you were not... LOUIS: Yes, it was
something like that... ...the father. Something like that.
Yes, Your Honor. So wouldn't
you wanna keep
some kind of information or record
so if I did grow up and I had questions,
you could say, "Hey..." No, I would not.
I would not wanna keep
that kind of information. The only information
I needed was
I took that piece of paper down to Child Services and they said
I didn't have to pay
child support no more. That was enough for me. Did you ever hear that
a DNA test was performed,
Ms. Lide? I heard from Mr. Ellis
that there was
a DNA test performed and it was, no, negative. Then I heard, uh,
from my mom, there was a DNA test
took and it was yes. JUDGE LAKE: I'd like
to hear from your mother.
Please stand, ma'am. ROSA: Yes, ma'am. Ms. Lide, you are Danielle's mother? Yes, ma'am. Was there
a DNA test performed? ROSA: It's...
For honest, um, DNA test I gotten
was from her, do... Do not quote, but they never showed, um, to court until now. So you... The bottom line is
a DNA test was performed, yes or no? Yes. JUDGE LAKE:
What were the results? They said in the court
99% yes. JUDGE LAKE:
That 99.9% that yes, he was Danielle's
biological father? Yes, that... (STUTTERING)
That's what I recall. JUDGE LAKE: Thank you so much. That's what I wanted to know.
You may be seated.
Thank you, ma'am. So Mr. Ellis. LOUIS: Yes, Your Honor. She says the test confirmed that you were
Danielle's biological father. You say it said
the exact opposite. LOUIS:
Yes, it did, Your Honor. And I took those
same papers
to Child Support. And they said I had
to pay child support. They said you have to
or you did not have to? LOUIS: I didn't have to. And they said that they...
They've gone
through my check. Three times they say,
"We're gonna send
that money back to you." It might take three
to four weeks,
take about a month, but I got it back,
Your Honor. DANIELLE: So they've gone
through your check twice... Answer me a question. ...or they've gone through
the check three times? What difference
does it make? Because you told me twice. Have you ever received
child support? No, you haven't. JUDGE LAKE: As a child,
Ms. Lide, growing up, you don't know anything
about that? DANIELLE: No, Your Honor. JUDGE LAKE:
Were you told as a child that this man was your father but he does not
acknowledge you or he does not want
anything to do with you? Yes. JUDGE LAKE:
That's what you were told? Yes. JUDGE LAKE: But in your
understanding as a child, that's still my father. That's who people are saying
is my biological father? Yes, and I wanna know
who he is and how he operates. That's because your mother
keep putting those
terrible things... Did you make an attempt
to get to know
his family at all? Yes, I talked to a couple
of my family members
on his side. And what was
their response? Did they...
Did they open
their arms to you? DANIELLE:
Regardless of anything, I'm still their family.
I look like them. I don't look like
most of the people on my mom's side
of the family, so I know there has to be
some kind of connection. And why do you feel
in your heart that this man is denying you? People do things in life that is unexplainable. Me, I look at myself and I... I love myself. I look at myself
in the mirror every day
and I appreciate myself, so if another human being
on this earth don't... Wouldn't accept me
for who I am, that's not gonna stop me
from loving me for who I am. (MUMBLES INDISTINCTLY) (APPLAUSE) Ms. Lide... (STAMMERING)
Ms. Lide, it's not that. I'm not trying
to accept you
for who you are. I think you're
a beautiful person. Your mother
should have told you,
and quit lying to you. You deserve the truth. I do deserve the truth. I'm feeling angry.
I'm feeling really mad. And you have the right to be. JUDGE LAKE:
What are you feeling? DANIELLE: I feel like... 'Cause me, I'm a mom. And I feel like,
if you are
old enough to, like... What you guys went through
was not my fault. And you guys should
never have involved me in anything that you guys
were going through. I would never put my kids
through that, ever. You guys should've
settled this the right way,
the appropriate way. Not wait for it
to see the outcome of it. This is the outcome of it. And you're right.
And that is why for years, I've been telling your mama
to quit lying to you
and tell you the truth about who your father is
so you find
your real father. I feel like
I deserve the truth. That's why I called the court I deserve to know
what's going on. That's why I called the court. It's 'cause you deserve
the truth. In your court papers,
Ms. Lide, you said that you made difficult and unfortunate choices
with men because of this absence
of a father figure, the relationship
with your father. I feel like if I had
a male role model, then, you know, I wouldn't
have to go out there and experience things
I experienced. Looking for love in a man,
like, should've had that firm man connection bond to where I know
what to look in a man, so I feel like
I was robbed of that also. LOUIS: And you would have... The father-daughter dance. And you would have had it. DANIELLE:
Being with your dad... JUDGE LAKE: Let her speak. Being with your dad,
father-daughter dances. You know, um, just having
that, that role model I can call on when I'm going
through something or just a extra shoulder
and support to cry on. So when your friends
and everyone's going to a father-daughter dance,
where are you? DANIELLE:
Me, I wasn't in school. I just did
what I wanted to do. And then,
I went on the run
when I was 16 'cause I've been
in and out
of juvenile hall. And I got pregnant
with my first son and that's what
made me realize, "Hey, you know,
I've got to change my life
or I'm gonna end up... "You know, away or dead." And so I feel like
I had to teach myself
how to love myself and... You know, change myself. That's the smart thing to do. That's what smart
young women do. Yeah. (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING) (ROSA MUMBLING) JUDGE LAKE: I'd like
to hear from your witness. Can you please stand, ma'am? MARY: Hi, Your Honor. JUDGE LAKE: Hello, ma'am. Thank you
for joining us today. Why are you convinced that your son
isn't Ms. Lide's
biological father? When I first saw
the baby at a month old, she looked four months old. And from what I had
heard from my son, her father's a great,
big man. What I heard
from my neighbor, she has a little brother
that she and the little
brother were like twins. And the grandmother,
Ms. Lide Sr.'s mother brought the baby over
in the house behind mine every day for a week and said,
"This is her brother.
I want her to know her." (AUDIENCE MURMURING) Ms. Ellis, what I
wanna understand is at the point you see
this DNA test result... MARY: I never saw a DNA... JUDGE LAKE: You didn't see it? No, ma'am. He told me. So you're just going off
of physical attributes when you say this is not
your grandchild? How she looks? You ain't nothing
but a baby, Your Honor. I've got 11 children. Everyone of mine
is older than you,
and I know mine. Ask any older woman in here and she can tell you,
she know all hers
when they come. So what you're saying
is she did not possess the physical characteristics
of any child that had ever been born
in your family. MARY: That's right... DANIELLE: So, Your Honor, basically,
she just already built the hate in her heart for me
from the day I was born. Like, every situation... How? I didn't even know
your mom was
pregnant with you. DANIELLE:
Every situation... I have seen her,
it's been trouble, like, I've see her
on a trolley when I was 10. I don't know if you
do remember, you know. MARY: You were 16. DANIELLE: I was 10. I saw her on a trolley
where we used to live at and I approached her and I went
to introduce myself, like, you know,
I'm Mr. Ellis' daughter. She told me, "Get the...
my face or I will smack you." (AUDIENCE MEMBER EXCLAIMS) JUDGE LAKE: What? Ms. Ellis, do you
remember this incident
on the trolley? She's lying.
This little girl slid up, teenager, she said, "Hi."
I said, "Hello." "Do you know me?"
I said, "No, should I?" "I'm your granddaughter."
I said, "No, you're not." I said, "I know
who her daddy is,
and you not gonna "put that on my son." DANIELLE: Your Honor,
I have been... And they're both lying
about me going... But Ms. Ellis,
let me ask you this. You know somebody's
telling her this, right? I mean, she's just not
making this up, like... Her mama's
telling her that. JUDGE LAKE: But you say
you feel like definitively, "She's not my grandchild." Your Honor, I feel sorry
for this child. I've told him this and I've
told my whole family this. I feel sorry for her... I don't need anybody to feel
sorry for me at all, because at the
end of the day,
I'm blessed. I just wanna know the truth. But the DNA test told it,
I already know the truth. Let it go. Let it go. She's lying to you. DANIELLE: Well, I haven't... I haven't saw
anything yet. JUDGE LAKE: You have
to understand, Mr. Ellis. Her point is, she's been
told her whole life
you are her biological father. You say you had proof
that she was not, but she hasn't seen the proof. I wanna see with my own eyes. LOUIS: That's why
I called the courts. JUDGE LAKE:
That's why we're here because at the end
of the day, Mr. Ellis, you're saying
that she's 99.9% not your biological daughter and, Ms. Lide, you're saying he's 99.9% your father and that's where
the mystery is. 'Cause I'm 99.99% lost
and confused. (AUDIENCE CHUCKLING) MARY: Good. And I understand
where you're coming
from, baby. And at 26 years old, you shouldn't have
to be going through this. Exactly. JUDGE LAKE:
Now, because
of this confusion, I wanted to get a little bit
more information about the law
in your home state. So I've called upon
an attorney
to talk to me about how you got results that say
you're not the father. And if, in fact,
it was determined that you were her
biological father, then I'm wondering
why in the world didn't the state order
child support and why didn't she
ever get it? This is why this is all
such a mystery. So I wanna call upon
an attorney
in your home state. Kelly Chang Rickert. She's a certified
family law expert. Hi, Ms. Rickert. <i> Hi, Judge Lauren Lake.
How are you?</i> Thank you so much
for joining us today. We have a paternity
mystery here. She's been told
there was previous testing
that indicated that Mr. Ellis
was her biological father. And yet,
Mr. Ellis has testified that he received
the paperwork
after the DNA testing, but it said that he was not Ms. Lide's biological father. <i> As a family attorney
for the last 17 years,</i> <i> stranger things
have happened
in family court.</i> JUDGE LAKE:
And then the other part
of this mystery is, how would he
get off the hook if there is a result
that is a positive result? Surely, the state is going
to try to locate the father and obtain
child support, right? KELLY: <i> Absolutely.</i> <i> Child Support is not
for the mother to waive.</i> <i> So even
if Mrs. Lide's mom said,</i> <i> "You know,
we're on good terms.
I'll waive it."</i> <i> You can't do that</i> <i> because the Department
of Child Support Services
is there and they're involved</i> <i> and they're gonna
enforce the order</i> <i> if, in fact,
the father is the father</i> <i> and that there's
enough income
to enforce this order.</i> <i> So, yes, I think
his story could be true</i> <i> that they do sometimes garnish</i> <i> and refund if it was an error.</i> <i> And I have seen that happen
several times.</i> <i> But like I said, Department
of Child Support Services
in...</i> (CHUCKLES) (STUTTERS) <i> Has a lot...</i> <i>
Make a lot of mistakes.</i> We thank you so much
for your time
and for your expertise. We appreciate that. <i> Absolutely.</i> JUDGE LAKE: Well, family,
this is a mystery because as our expert
just testified, both sides could be true. Jerome, the envelope please. Here you go.
You're welcome. Thank you. These results were prepared
by DNA Diagnostics and they read as follows. In the case of<i>
Lide v. Ellis,</i> when it comes
to 26-year-old... Danielle Lide... It has been determined
by this court... Mr. Ellis, you... Are the father. Whoa. MARY:
I don't believe it. DANIELLE: I knew it. Yes. (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING) Boom! ROSA: I know it. Ha! Yeah! Give me five, girl! Give me five! Yeah. All right. Mama ain't
gonna lie to me. We know it, baby. Never, ever. Mmm! ROSA: Holler. DANIELLE: All this tall, large cup of caramel. (ROSA MUMBLING INDISTINCTLY) (AUDIENCE LAUGHING) DANIELLE: Yes. Well, now that...
I love you. I loved your mother
for a long time, all right? I'm so sorry. (SPEAKING INDISTINCT) ROSA: I know I... I know I wouldn't lie
to you, baby. I already have you
in my heart. DANIELLE:
For once and for all. Finally solved. Hey, I'd just like
to, uh, apologize. I just went by with
what the first DNA said. I can't take back
the last 26 years that I wasn't by her from the first DNA test. I can only try to improve,
and move in her life
and my grandkid's life. JUDGE LAKE: This is beautiful because at the end of the day,
Ms. Lide, this was
about you, sweetie. You've had a tough road. Even in this moment, you just had
to be honest and say, "I'm 99% lost. "I don't know about the rest." And that was honest,
and that was real. Grandma. MARY: Yes, ma'am. JUDGE LAKE: You said
that wasn't one of yours,
but it is. MARY: No, it's not. JUDGE LAKE: It is. The DNA has spoken. You don't believe
the DNA testing? Not that one, no. JUDGE LAKE:
Well, Ms. Ellis,
I'll say this. The DNA has spoken and that is
your granddaughter, your beautiful young girl. DANIELLE: Thank you. And I love when you said that "I taught myself
how to love myself" and you're worth that love, I want you to know that. DANIELLE: Thank you. (APPLAUSE) JUDGE LAKE: And that's why
we're here every day. We have counseling
and resources for you all,
all right? I wish you the very
best of luck.
Court is adjourned.
