Fight Scene Autopsy: The Last Jedi Throne Room, Star Wars

before we begin it is shout out time and I want to give a shout out to a wonderful youtuber named Mahler who makes some of the theme post no probably not some are probably just the most in-depth film analysis videos I've ever seen literally hours long and if you love that nitpicky kind of details that we go into here on shadow versity there's a very good chance that you're going to love his content I know I do as you might have known I'm a massive fan of storytelling being a writer myself and I love good storytelling and also breaking down and figuring out why something isn't working and why it's bad and Mahler doesn't hold back or pull any punches which I greatly respect in fact I've had the pleasure to hang out with him on the podcast that he hosts every framer pause content warning though it can get a little bit edgy but please do go check him out and while they're there why not subscribe greetings I'm shadow and welcome to a new series on my channel called fight scene autopsy the most pedantic deconstruction of pop culture fight scenes here on YouTube and I really mean that we're gonna be looking at this fight scene scene by scene every single maneuver done by the combatants here I'm gonna be assessing to see how viable effective it is from the lens of actual historical swordsmanship now if you are unfamiliar with me or my channel I'll simply state that I am a medieval weapons and armor enthusiast I have actually studied swordsmanship in combat for many years I have several videos on my channel of myself sparring with others and exploring the intricacies of source manip now I have seen people like stuntmen reviewing fight scenes even people who do fencing but fencing is actually somewhat removed from authentic historical swordsmanship and on top of that I haven't seen any of those videos go into the level of detail and I'm going to guarantee we're gonna be breaking down these fight scenes frame by frame if we have to and as you've been out a toll from the title of this video we are going to be starting with one of the bigger more controversial fight scenes in recent memory the throne-room fight scene from Star Wars the last Jedi now I have made no secret of my hatred for the last Jedi but I will say when I first saw this fighting in the cinemas I enjoyed it and that is because it is a lot of movement it's hard to pay attention to the very specific techniques that they do something certainly stood out and there is of course some very egregiously massive holes but when you're just watching this fighting not paying attention it is easy to enjoy it's when you pay attention to everything that's going on well we see some major problems so let's get right into it [Music] we start off with a big epic slow-motion shot of Rey and kylo Ren facing off against these Imperial Guard by the way I'm not sure if these guys are actually called the Imperial Guard because the first order is in the Empire and so the first order guard smokes guard I don't yeah I'm calling them the Imperial Guard okay now the first thing that we notice here is that neither Rey nor kylo are using any guard positions they're just holding their swords to their side that's not good the Imperial Guard are moving in and they don't really have any guard positions either and on top of that what we're seeing here is some very big Telegraph's and oh my goodness that guy coming in to fight Carlo is telegraphing massively as well you see this guy with the double knife spear thing coming to attack Rey he is leading in with his shoulder just basically trying to tell ray and I think actually this is a filmmaking thing this is the stuntmen trying to tell Ridley Scott yes I'm coming into attack so you need to be on point to defend now Rey just led in with a big wide swing of her own looking at this frame by frame really telegraphing her own hit as well now the first guy that just attacked Kylee here is knocked off to the side his kind of flailing away the rage is knocked aside the second guy that attacked her and the first imperial guard he was knocked back way too much than the force of the strike indicated their weapons just simply tapped each other wasn't something so big when it was knocked back at a full few steps Carly knocks aside his second opponent and the guy who's standing behind them right in the middle is doing nothing is it quite a big opening there it seems like is again waiting for at kylo to get done with the first guy I now alt a key again a stuntman kind of coming in one at a time sorry this front guy is just spinning his sword around he spun it to the side does a pirouette and within that time he could have easily closed the distance and just killed Rey who's back is facing him right now okay so now the guy with this beer comes in at kylo and kylo ducks him but what is he doing with his sword is just hoarding it off to the side if Carla had just brought his sword out in front of him as this Imperial Guard swung the overhead and stepping forward because his throwing all his weight into it he would have just walked right past kylos lightsaber and chopped his own legs off perhaps depending on if the armor actually protected them in those instances because the armor in this fight scene is so arbitrary it's for when it protects them and when it doesn't so look at this Imperial Guard who was closest to the camera at the moment about to strike Rey watch what happens with his attack is moving in and look he purposefully misses and these are the Imperial car or not and I supposed to be doubted I really think my one-year-old son wouldn't have missed that strike he's playing with swords already and is pretty good at it he would not have missed that there is a lot happening here and so when I'm focusing on one of the Imperial Guards I don't really see what the others are doing so we're gonna go back a little bit and check what this imperial guard to the very far left is doing with his staff think he swings it down and he misses too he had a big blade swing coming right down but rey her lightsaber is almost hitting kylo it's pointed right behind her and so both of these imperial guards they are forced to miss their attacks because rage has sucks or should I say the stuntmen were forced to miss their attacks because Daisy Ridley perhaps missed her timing was this actually choreograph that to highly-trained Imperial Guard just fully missed their strikes against their opponent when their opponent is fully open sorry if we're looking at this inward from what we are seeing from the imperial guard they are horrible at fighting and so is Raya this point now Rey is moving in and she hits Lori and she strikes the guys spear it looks like she's hitting the guys spear at the moment and they get knocked back from some big epic whatever thing and then she connects with them once again now let's look at what Kyle has been doing amongst that Oh interesting so this was another imperial guard coming in off to the left lunge again towards Kyle Oh from his side vision he leans back and just just knocks it off still no guard position and is off balance and then this is interesting he brings his sword down and he stabs into the ground to block what's like these imperial guards that are now aiming for his lightsaber see look where the Imperial Guards weapon is right now it's high Carlo just put his sword down at the imperial guard is paying attention just attack hi and Kyla is dead but instead he swings a ho a hemming for Hawaii Sabre come on ray spins around comes to the defense of kylo and stabs forward and these guys off to their left here they're just right out I don't know doing nothing ray her back is open to them they're just kind of standing around from being knocked back from some small strike that raided me how she turns to face them good they're coming down she lifts her lightsaber and blocks all three but hang on is she actually blocking all three let's check to try and confirm this is coming in and yes it's underneath though I say but what is this guy here hitting to stop his strike his dagger thing has a free open shot - Ray's head why has it at people it's just stopped because choreography right and who is Ray kicking she's kicking the centermost Imperial Guard and all three of them get knocked back seeing this she's kicking ass enter one yet all three Imperial Guard seem to be getting kicked back by this one kick which is only hitting one of the Imperial Guard so let's check what kylo is doing during this three high attack thing with against Ray where one of the Imperial Guards weapons don't even hit a lightsaber yet it was being held there i goes hitting nothing kyle is obviously doing something his lightsaber is holding off what is this is that's like a weapon glaive by one of the imperial guard and that the other period guard okay Karla is holding the other Imperial Guards weapon to Kyler's left he's holding that weapon at bay and the imperial guard for most of the camera who was engaging kylos being knocked down and so Kylie knocks that weapon aside pushes that other guy away is coming down with a big strike and okay so that guy there is dead okay big pet peeve time I can't stand this in five since I can't stand it when one of the combatants strikes their opponents without their weapon so they they punch they hit somewhere and the punch connects it actually connects which implies that their opponent had a guard down they're all vulnerable so the question is why didn't they just use their weapon instead of punching okay if they actually struck their opponent with the weapon instead of their fist their opponent would be dead and this is what we see right here Kyler he is facing this imperial guard who is completely open no guard position his front chest head wide open Cara's lightsaber is held low all he needs to do is bring the lightsaber up to strike the imperial guard and he will kill them but instead he decides to elbow him all the while holding his lightsaber down doing nothing again he decides I'm going to elbow this guy because elbowing and punching is clearly more effective than this laser sword that can chop through steel and even the imperial guard is through nothing he could just raise his you know weapon right into kylos gut or subah core in between his legs chopped off his nads kylo is dead yet both of them seem to have forgotten that they're holding weapons but the interesting thing here is that the Imperial Guard actually has some bit of an excuse because they're just elbowed in the face so he's wearing a helmet that should protect someone but okay say that was I make a strong elbow to the face that is stunned and is like oh dazed and he is out of the combat for just a few seconds but Kuro here he's all good in fighting form and is not using his weapon he's just holding it to the side and now is deciding to throw this imperial guard out now he's gonna use his lightsaber but no he doesn't he's gonna kick the other guy this is holding his lifesaver doing nothing and he decides to kick this imperial guard who has a weapon raised about to come down I mean at the very least you want to raise your lightsaber to block it instead of kick certain briefcases either if these imperial guards could have been killed by carlo if he just decided to use his lightsaber instead of holding off to the side decided to punch and kick these Imperial guys instead of actually hit them look the lightsaber is nearly touching the Imperial just run him through but he's not doing anything with no I won't kill these guys that are trying to kill me my lightsaber is nearly touching them like just a few centimetres distance and instead I'm gonna throw him forward and not use my weapon come off it holy crap if you're not picking up already this fight scene is trash it's absolute garbage just begun alright so now now we're seeing ray I don't see ok and two guys attacking ray let's watch what happens okay here's another awful exchange and you know if you're not paying attention it looks nice there's a lot of movement happening but from a competitive standpoint it's just atrocious again these supposing all Ray's not trained but she's taking on Imperial Guard and Carlo is supposed to be trained they're not using any fight stances at all alright like combative swordsmanship stances where your sword is in a position to God or attack or be ready it's just the Imperial Guard he swings at ray ok Ray's back is facing him and he purpose all that the stuntman purposefully misses so open just hit her but purposely missing right overhead oh it's horrible and then he spins around back towards Ray in fights ray in to strike him and putting up a guard position he turns to Ray raises his arm and says here you go free hits I mean there's not even trying to attack ray he's just basically raising his arm and his body just hit me as soon as I go on ray you go right right in the chest and bang that's kind of supposedly kills him whip wraps around Ray's lightsaber now ok her lightsaber is grabbed by this weapon and Ray is holding it vertical in front of herself and she's getting pulled in if something is wrapped around a weapon do you know how you didn't pull it free just extend your weapon point it forward and pull it out of whatever loop it's being held in by holding it vertical in front of yourself like that you are allowing your opponent to pull yourself in just stretch it out horizontal let it slide off the end but no she lets herself get pulled it she just she doesn't even straight her sort of hilariously giving out this section right here if she extended her lightsaber forward into a horizontal forward strike horizontal position she would knock this guy in the head he can't block with his weapon whip thing especially with it being wrapped around Eliza just extend your weapon hit him she's like it's so much you could do it this position just I can't stand the stupidity even here it's not like he's forcing her to hold the lightsaber in that position just tilt it forward a bit just a little bit tap in the head it's nothing he can do to stop you stupid it's my brain and all through here she could again just tilt her lightsaber forward hit him in the head I mean it's just continues okay so what did she do here she does instead of just doing the easy thing she like slips in underneath now it's if you were wondering you know if you she was able to slide her lightsaber out of being looped in that weird electric whip thing well that's what she does right here she clearly pulls her lightsaber free right and strikes the guy right up the back right through so look at wow that armor is not doing much and yeah is dead so I mean this should set the precedent that the armor is pretty useless but alright and then she throws the whippy thing away and which slides off her lightsaber so what she's doing here isn't a guard position okay she's just holding it off to the side mildly raised now I had it presumed that that guy was dead okay I'm assuming it's the guy that was hit in the side of the chest by Ray before but perhaps the armor saved him and they're thinking no he's not dead so he can still fight and this is where he splits his staff into the infamous double dagger thingies and then he decides to wave his daggers around this way ever it's really really dumb see I'm not sure if any of you caught that but I caught exactly the movement he was doing because I'm aware of that movement and it's really dumb and useless and look maybe he's trying to intimidate your opponent but it doesn't look fancy especially the daggers with swords maybe not with daggers see I think this is what he was trying to do and with swords this type of Irish can look all right but with two little daggers in the lane as long as let's pay attention we're going so Murray now he just kind of swings it up around and that that's it so ray does a little flourish there too the young train died I guess they couldn't look all right but for someone actually does do a little bit of sword flourishing it's really basic stuff seems she just swings her sword to one side down around there and then back up wasn't even a full loop at least in the fight scene between obi-wan and Anakin they actually did some proper flourishing okay not this pathetic attempt at one these are the type of sword flourishes you want to do that actually walk somewhat competence and I actually consider myself only average with sword flourishing and a flourishing that I'm showing here is only mid level it's above basic but it's nowhere near what I would call advanced telegraphing if I was finding someone leaning into a booth ray and the Imperial Guard see how they're leaning in with their shoulder the shoulders basically an open kind of description on this is how I'm gonna strike I'm setting my attack they're just leaning in big baseball bat swing from Ray and the guy with the daggers I mean he's got two daggers right see how he strikes with one and he lets his dagger hit right what is he doing with that other dagger I mean if he just pokes his other dagger forward he'd strike a right in the stomach but he decides his other dagger doesn't exist which interestingly kind of happens a bit later on in a more literal sense pay attention you're gonna see something atrocious if it hasn't been pointed out to you already ow cuts to Kyler's and his weapon is locked this is again a pet peeve okay the thing when two weapons hit each other in movies and Hollywood fight scenes and then they just hold them on each other this is what is called being in the bind Kyla's lightsabers in the bind with this glaive polearm weapon thing that the Imperial Guard is doing now when you get in the bind there are so many things you can do because you get to feel the pressure your opponent is putting on the weapon and you can manipulate their weapon into a position that you want and sorry if Carlo just stepped to his left a little bit and extended his lightsaber he would strike the imperial guard in the head so instead of taking advantage of being in the bind with his opponent he pushes his opponent's blade down - I mean look credit here to block an incoming strike so maybe he was a bit too worried about this attack coming in and so is like no Oh block and now both opponents weapons are in the bind and it's hard to see exactly how their weapons are being locked against each other if it's preventing either of them striking that Kyllo from the bind but we also see the advantage of cross guards here because the only thing preventing the two imperial guards weapons from actually moving further down and hitting Kyler's hands here is that beautiful cross guard the thing that I've pointed out lightsabers have needed for a long time yet still they don't need to keep the pressure if one simply steps back withdraws his blade and thrusts again and carlo's up and is still locked away with one of the other opponents then be out of hit him but instead they keep pushing as hard as they can and Kyla has to hold them off and then he gets pushed back as well a little bit off-balance so what does he do well he pushes back of course and throws them off and then he comes in with a big strike through this guy's torso the armor interestingly not doing much to prevent the lightsaber from penetrating the guy Carlos strikes here is completely open and I'm interested on what makes him so he goes down he goes to hit him and he okay his blade is knocked back in a fairly huge manner to the point where he's completely disarmed from his ala - imperial guard buddies blades hitting his blade and what people can't get to some I'll give it credit here alright I prove of that thing maneuver particularly but his interest in kylo suddenly got a huge burst of strength to throw everyone off maybe he just braced himself better and he finally takes advantage of an open opponent by stabbing him through the chest Oh see this is interesting Kyler here seems to take what looks to be the first guard position we see in this entire fight scene it's a kind of long point that's what the Imperial Guard is doing here this is not a god Oh Diaz fist forward in front of his weapon leaning the weapon on his forearm like what is this it's absolutely this is so stupid you don't present your hand to your opponent will just quickly swipe at the hand and chop off his hand right there this is so stupid and like why because it looks cool maybe to an untrained eye perhaps but it is sorry profoundly stupid and then we see Rey just doing some hits with the dagger guy the dagger guy did that even that even touch we're gonna go frame by frame here so array her lightsaber is just hit the other dagger and so each is open on the side which is of course obvious and it's good that the imperial guard is trying to take advantage of it so he tries to thrust forward and his not extending forward nearly as far as he can in fact he's holding his hand off to the side more instead of moving it forward and it doesn't even look like it's touch oh okay maybe it's touching here yeah there the blade portion was close enough to do that little cut on her arm but he's not extending it nearly as forward as he can I mean just look at how much further he could extend his arm yet is not because he's holding it off to the side so much and it's like he was aiming for Ray's arm which is again further to the side if he just brings his arm in and points it forward that dagger would be getting rammed right through her stomach oh hang on was that a guard position from Rey did she actually raise her lightsaber to fend off her opponent stay back wow that's a we have a second um what type of guard position by the look of her stance her footing is wrong sorry it's a poorly executed a long point I would call it back back to kylo with his somewhat guard position now what's interesting about these son rare guard positions and look at that guy resting his sword on his hand what an idiot but anyway so he's coming in for an attack now and oh no he throws his sword into the whip thing and is gonna do it trying to whip now Carly wait what happened to your guard position you've loaded it you're holding a good guard somewhat goo God God that was kind of useful why did you lower it Kyler don't do it he's coming in to attack you now the god position is gone in your swings around to try and block what you want to do in many fights is strike from one guard position to another god position to another guard position you should start from the guard position and then in a guard position to keep a good defense you don't want to die this is why over-swinging is so bad because when you over swing a strike you leave yourself open but good controlled sword strikes generally end in another guard position to follow up with another saw strike usually into another guard position Tyler he spins he blocks the whip a big flash connection whip gets knocked aside then that Kyler's why say ever got thrown down from the thing but his leaning low now so he's leaning glory and again why the spinning imperial guard closes the camera he decides to spin around have his back face toward his opponent no stop it stop by there spinning there are some instances where spinning is actually a viable proper type of technique but that is usually when you're employing your weapon in a defensive type action to keep your opponent's at bay so when I criticize spinning I'm not saying it doesn't exist in historical swordsmanship just the type of useless pointless spinning and pirouettes you see these imperial guards doing for very reason presenting their backs to their opponents is just ridiculous Crowley doesn't take advantage instead of attacking the guys open-back he holds his lightsaber at bay off to the decide and narrow he decides to bring it up after the guys done the spin for to block the attack and because so basically Carl was waiting for the attack and then he blocks the attack then he brings his lightsaber down to block another attack coming in and try and strike his opponent knock him at bay and that was actually kind of a good powerful strike at the very least Kylee here is showing some good physicality in his movements okay he is throwing some pain our some weight by now look at this like the physical exertion is there on his face and he throws that attack down with a lot of power so at least there's that you know whip coming in mrs. because he hits right over Kyle his head and Carlo is tucking down doing something with this imperial guard imperial guard did they get a hit on him it looks like he's almost hit but no y'all kyle is holding the thing and he brings that glai thing to block the other strike and does he take advantage of the opening because the guys strike just hits the pole arm thing that Tyler had grabbed and so Carlos would be out and just run this imperial guard who's closest to the camera right through the guts but he he does he do it no kind of that's kind of a hit yet not know it was hard and now the other guy he must have been hit or something because it just was kneeling there for correlated strike him right no no to take off his head complete decapitation good to see I don't know why he just let Carlo do that I couldn't see Kyle strike him to get him to his knees at any point there so that's a mystery and now we're back with ray against the dagger guys leaning back to escape those daggers and then she does a big wild swing aimed at nothing I mean maybe like she's stressed she's off on the back foot and so if you're off balance okay I'll give you some leeway there to say when you're off balance there's a higher chance you'll miss just strike completely and now she blocks and Candice so this is another example of thing I was complaining before about Carlo where people in fight scenes they just decide to forget the fact that they're holding a weapon and they decide to kick or elbow or punch or a headbutt when that means this strike would have connected because there was no gada they whoever was hit by this blunt attack and boot elbow whatever they not ready for it their guard they were they were open they would have been hit which means if they decided instead of elbow and kicking and they use their weapon they would have struck and so this guy here he decides to forget is holding a dagger and instead of thrusting forward with the dagger he decides to kick Rey in the chest because she's open and why didn't you use your dagger mates you would have been dead but no I'll decide to kick and not use my weapon I'm not holding a weapon and then he stands there like he could have taken advantage right it was flat on her face well I'd say but to the side and he decides to let her get up maybe there was an intimidation tactic it's like yes I just booted you off your feet and so let let you struggle because it's so over confident in his ability to dominate his opponent I can see that with an arrogant opponent but if you're really wanting to press your advantage and you just kick your opponent off their feet you would stab down in their face their head right away and in the fight and so Rey is really off guard here and she just does some wild swings this is actually where we see her training come back into the forefront you remember that time when she was training in front of the rock and she does these stupid wild baseball bat swings side to side well you might think that these wild swings that she's about to do here is a result of her being off-balance and timid aeneas trying to fend off her opponent but no this is she is trained to this type of fighting before this is her reverting to her training see that wild over swing like just hit her in the shoulder now so after her two wild swings she lowers her sword and the imperial guard Telegraph's a double hit with his daggers and again look how open he is I mean like I've been stressing the the problem with telegraphing your hits and over swings but I just really want everyone watching this to truly appreciate the significance of just telegraphing like this look at this you know imperial guard he has turned his body fully to the side no weapon in front to protect himself it's an open invitation to get hit it's just sorry amateurish and I mean if Rey actually struck instead of she's holding back she's actually waiting for those blades to come in you don't want to wait for your opponent's weapon if there's an opening you want to strike in such a position that your strike will also block the attack from your opponent that you know is incoming and not only you know that it's coming in you know how it's gonna be coming in because they're telling you so clearly so you can attack before they do that and block their incoming strike very easily because you know what's gonna happen but Ray doesn't do that she waits for the attack coming in wait wait wait wait now it's coming in now I'll come in and block and there's a double hit and then we switch to Kyle oh sorry he was grabbing the guys Paul I'm and then he brings his lightsaber up over on top and then down on the guy good obviously again when people are in the bind of doing something just move your weapon around at the opponent's weapon to hit them lay their open oh okay he hit him didn't did that kill him the yeah looks like the guy is falling now his down and of course this other guy with the pole I'm he comes in and he does a pirouette thing what was the purpose what was the purpose he was not yeah I yield far away from Kyle oh why would he decide to spin in that instance remember spinning does exist in historical sword fighting if you're actually doing something and employing the spin for something for a reason right there was no reason from spinning there apart from showing I was like hey goodies close the other peer goes check check check or Center watch me watch me guys watch me I'll spin them I'll spin look at I spun do you see that guys I can just like and I can spin around I can barrel it coming in big wide telegraphed hit Kyle re is holding the other guy's pole arm and he does a static block oh look static books do exist they're just not as effective as a riposte where you block and attack in the same motion but no it's a static block and what does he do from here walks and then he disengages his lightsaber and comes in with a wild overhead swing where it gets blocked but it wasn't that wasn't even aimed for his opponent you would think you would want to aim through your opponent's head even if the opponent is going to try and block but instead it comes down and it's in front it's forward like the guy didn't even need a block if he just didn't block Carly would have missed completely past you know a couple of centimeters a 10 centimeters off from his right arm miss completely because his over swinging then Carla would be open and there's a the Imperial Guard could just do it overhead swing into Kylie's head see this what I mean about when your opponent either over swings or misses you just sometimes withdraw your weapon let them over swing and hit them when they're open directly afterwards but know that hit knocks the guy back somewhat and then Kyle oh right he's running forward and tries to do a thrust gets knocked aside now he spins see that might have been one of the only kind of he spins and then moves up to a block all right but that's the kind of spinning that sometimes can be viable when you throw a strike and say you are off balance somewhat or you over swing or your dissident position where the block moved your sword so much so that it's to the side instead of bringing back in just cancelling out that momentum you can go with the momentum and spin around which is kind of what Kylie does here see Heath goes in with a thrust and he just moves with the momentum because he's got the sword in his offhand and if he just just extended that sword arm right there into a strike he might have hit this opponent but his opponent is in a good position to block and it's incoming strike but Kylie then decides to instead of strike he waits for his opponent to hit him and he comes up with a block now what do you see anything signify hidden here everyone like look at Carlos vision look at his opponents position and look good what did Kyle is holding with his other hand okay Kyle Lori has warded off his opponents weapon they are in the bind with his lightsaber which means his opponent is completely open to the polearm staff thing that Kyle is holding with his other hand so Kyle oh take advantage the opening just just just just to strike him instead of striking at the blatant opening his opponent has he decisive hit his opponent what is he aiming for he's actually hitting up to his opponent's weapon with the pole arm is holding in his other hand so he hit his opponent weapon where and the opponent's completely open he could have just hit him right in the torso killed him but he hits the opponent's weapon to knock him off his feet and now someone else is coming in this Imperial Guard what is his plan he's running in both arms up and who is he truck is he trying to protect someone no because the opponent the other Imperial Guard is out of reach of Kyla so Carlo can't hit him from where he is standing and so the imperial guard that ran in with his forearms isn't protecting his other Imperial Guard buddy here because Carlo wouldn't be now to hit him and Carlo didn't look to be trying to hits the Imperial guy that just ran in with his forearms so he could just stay back and everything would have been fine but instead he decides to run in and he holds up his forearms to try and block Carlos lightsaber for no reason at all and then this of course shows the inconsistency with the armor because suddenly the armor is tough enough to block like a lightsaber full-on you know touching putting pressure against those forearms that Armour and now it's working and then carla has the staff thing in his other hand still that's like I we just killed him yeah thanks for committing suicide because no weapon no ability to protect himself he is just run in and commit suicide Joe Carlos say yo gee thanks you know thanks to that and now yeah yeah I'll do now the armor is a blocking strike you know now is heating on the neck perhaps there's a weak point on the neck but that we've seen the lightsaber penetrate the chest armor completely already is it a forearm armor that's better oh now the other guy that was on his feet he strikes at kylo misses completely Tyler isn't dodging here he isn't leaning back and so the strike and look granted sometimes you missed your strike but if these are well-trained Imperial Guard you'd think they'd have a better understanding of measure in sword fighting or just combat in general step into measure when striking Toby out of measure you know the reach of your weapons you get a good reflexive understanding of the reach of your weapons and when they get to hit and when they weren't when you will be out of hit when you are in measure when you're not in measure coming in for the strike the strike passes the strike literally passes the leg already and then Kyle is gonna raise the leg like he actually dodged and lifted his leg out of the way obviously that's what was meant in the choreography that the strike was gonna come into the leg and kylo was meant to raise the leg to dodge that attack completely but the timing is off his timing is off and so the stuntman has come in and Kaila hasn't raised his legs so that's why has an extended his arms purposefully misses because now he raises his leg as part of the choreography sorry mate you're a bit late okay you're way off in the over-swinging he spins around look he did swing so much that maybe a spin was effective or at least acceptable in this specific set of moves right here because he spins around Carly again his open and it's telegraphed and he grabs the blade and make you're not fighting the right way against you know an unarmed opponent look I get this is all part either of the choreography and I'm not here to try and rag on the stuntmen because I actually do believe the summon probably know how to fight far more effectively than what has been set up here it actually looks like a lot of the timing is thrown off and if you were to guess who's throwing off the timing generally you probably wouldn't say it was the experienced stuntmen who are out of time in this choreography it's probably the more inexperienced actors if you were to guest anyway Carly is holding the staff and their strength against strength okay the Imperial Guard is decide all right you want to growl unto my staff I'll throw it but why like if you had that much leverage to swing around and stuff you'd think he might have been out of leverage the blade low and then coming up with and you know I up would strike from a downwards position yeah interesting position from where kylo is holding on to the staff he actually isn't holding on to it in such a way where he would get a lot of leverage and so I think the red guy here Imperial Guard is he trying to choke him because this isn't how you choke you wouldn't be able to Turk someone with like this I mean all Kyle has to do is turn his head to the side to move his esophagus into a different position so the pressures on the side of his negatives in the front and so you know you're not gonna choke Kyle oh here yeah so honestly doesn't look like a difficult thing to get out of so imperial guard yep trying to ineffectively choke Kyle oh but in dead he decides to let go of the staff look at where Cairo's hand his look what the guys doing if he lets go over the staff even for an instant and kylo is trying to pull the staff away what do you think should happen here Kyler doesn't pull the staff sorry the Imperial Guard is literally let go of one hand on the staff which means he has no more leverage to hold the staff over kylos throat and so kylo is not pushing against the staff anymore clearly because if he was he would just be able to push away the staff from it and because the guy only has one hand and Carla has two hands on it now he has more language Tyler is the one with more leverage on the staff you'd be out of wrestle it out of the guys grip I reckon just buying the right type of angling but no Kyler is holding the staff on it and is still looking like it's getting tight this scene right here this frame that we're looking at right here is kylo choking himself he is holding the staff onto his back it's like choking her sorry but let go of the staff Oh oh you have oh so I don't need to check myself anymore well not for long I mean III am gonna bring my fist up like that but you know if you're pulling on the staff with any measure of force that briefer or I let go I wouldn't me now to do this I wanted me now to wrap my arm around it and you would have gotten free so thanks let me do this Carlo robot this right here is the most infamous exchange of this fire scene it is just astounding the incompetence of what happens here so we're gonna break it down frame by frame I've addressed in other videos but there are certain things I haven't pointed out before that are astoundingly dumb and so we're gonna like break down everything about what happens right here sorry from the beginning Ray she's even facing her aparted back is literally facing her opponent I just how are you standing all right so the guy you just like slash forward he would slash Ray's back if he'd even bothered but instead he's just gonna stand there and wait for aid to attack him even though array is quite epic but no take your time ray get back as well as me and so I'm gonna swing around still back towards you and I'm gonna strike and sorry okay he blocks have a look at where his other dagger is where is it facing towards okay how close is it towards Rey in this moment so remember those times where people just forget that they're holding weapons and in the instances that I pointed out previously they forget they're holding weapons but they strike with another body limb either they boot or they elbow or something like this but this is so egregious because of how close that other weapon is all right and not only that he literally does the motion of an attack without touching Rey okay he moves the blade from one side of his body to the other which should slash Rey across the stomach but instead he doesn't Rey was so open on the stomach she should be dead just from that motion right there but no hehe decides to move the blade out of the way and after it moves across the stomach so she should be slashed open at the gut the blade as we all know disappears like holy crap seized on the head where did the blade go where the dagger go it's gone it's not even there it's disappeared like rays force powers can just dematerialization that hand at all I don't know I try to give this stuntman some credit where I can but I don't know what the stuntman was thinking at any point do you say guys I'm still holding a dagger in my off hand because clearly he still was he was still holding a dagger in his other hand and they edited it out alright when this was filmed he was still holding that dagger in his other hand he didn't throw it away and so he's holding his left arm off to the side with a dagger in it while they were filming it at any point he Daisy Ridley Brian Johnson assuming there during the filming of the scene say perhaps you should do something at the blade or you shouldn't be holding here or maybe we should have had you in like fighting with one dagger at the beginning of this exchange because the whole time they're filming obviously he was still holding it and then they edited out in post so there are two massive stupid things here but we're gonna go back because there's a lot of focus on the dagger in that exchange because the dagger disappears but we should have been paying attention - how ray got into this position and how the guy got in he had some type of grapple so we're gonna go back and see how they got there so he just blocked Ray's strike and again he doesn't hit ray with this other dagger which is just sitting so close there but anyway we're gonna focus on the other net the dagger that's blocked the lightsaber so they they're sliding around lights flashing and he brought his dagger down under do you think we're a lightsaber is it originally right he was preventing ray from throwing the lightsaber forward chopping off his head with his own dagger but instead of protecting himself and hopefully preventing that he pulled the dagger down onto the other side of the lightsaber now his arm and dagger is behind Ray's lightsaber Ray's lightsabers now in between his arm and his head and this is as bad as him not slicing ray across the gut with it black being directly I mean the dagger was there nearly touching her stomach and he couldn't slice it open ray here her lifesaver is nearly touching the guy's head there's nothing blood cuz he pulled his dagger out of the way and she could just slice it down on the guy's head and kill him straight away but that doesn't happen like she's not doing anything instead she lets him move in knowing well she's doing something he's actually not grabbing her he's technically not forcing her to move in any position apart from where she is putting herself in so she is purposely moving her arm in through his arm this is obviously choreography okay they're doing it on purpose but in the context of the fight if it was real the profound stupidity of this is just astounding because she is now moving her arm in to lock in with his arm when he was there was she was almost touching his head with their lightsaber already and she's letting himself get grappled which is not really a crap because it's the other profoundly dumb thing about this sequence of movements because because what happens okay so she she is moving herself into that position not the guy okay this is the thing it just emit like watching it is okay and I'm just in or of the stupid and again the daggers disappeared and like at first I was misdirected because it had done the dagger was to not realize how stupid what's going on with Ray's arm and lightsaber right now okay what is holding her arm in that angle okay she's holding it on a 90 degree angle beds around his arm is he forcing her for I'm into that position no there is nothing holding her arm down like this this is important pay attention because she holds her arm in that position for an extended period of time without anyone holding her arm there okay she's acting like she's being held at bay and grappled and she can't do anything to the point where she has to drop her lightsaber to try and slice the guy across the test which is how she eventually kills him but no no one is holding her in this position I'm in this position watch now let's go frame by frame now they stand up again nothing holding her I'm in a position and now now she decides to grab the guy's hand that's holding the dagger to prevent him from just spinning the daggers at the side and slashing her in the face he could have done that before but now he can't because he's holding her arm and she's wrapping her arm around his arm I can't stand this because you know what you could do in this position right here she is holding in his dagger away with her offhand and her lightsaber hand is wrapping around her arm bent as almost as far as they can go she could simply just extend her arm stretch it out her in the lightsaber about 180 degrees and just slice him in the head top of his head there's nothing but stopping it from doing that she's sorry but though she's holding her arm pinned for whatever reason it's so dumb and she could just extend it and kill him so easily so she could have done this at any point up until now and she doesn't just like be held at very someone is holding my arm in this position I'm holding it bent so forward around your arm because of reasons and the guy instead of holding with his fist before his full forearm was wrapped in front of that pole arm right but now it looks to be like it's resting just on the guys you don't fist right there and Kyler is actually holding on to this pole I'm with G hands auch I need to do is lift it up a bit jerk it forward and you'll be able to pull it free so easily but no because he's choking himself remember so again she's holding it in that position nothing is preventing her from extending it but it's just it's going on and the stupidity it's so dumb she looks it was like she seems to realize something not that she could just extend her arm and just cut his head off because nothing is forcing a hand to be there she decides to drop it okay she drops her lightsaber like she drops it then she lets go of his fist okay presumably her offhand was holding off that dagger from slicing off her head if that guy's putting any pressure forward to slice that dagger you know as soon as that her off here moves that should shoot for just slice off her head but walks what happens she lets go and the guy the Imperial Guard is now just standing there he is doing nothing he is letting Rey just move down and grab the lightsaber he could just slice her head off at any point here but he's not doing it it's just standing there and ready goes down and grabs it and he's like it's just letting a killer him and she just moves forward slash across there his knees and he's just like all right yeah kill me now kill me yeah across the neck is dead now so that exchange there was the worst exchange I in this whole fight scene and look I'm sure there is a worse one in some fight scene anywhere I can't think of anything and having said that I have not looked at many fight scenes as closely frame-by-frame as this one here but I certainly intend to in the future so if we ever didn't come across anything as bad as this well we'll know but I can't think of any exchange as bad as the exchange we just witnessed cuz they're the level of stupid in every position was astounding sorry here I mean this raises an interesting question in fighting generally and that's why don't Jedi's turn off their lightsabers in the middle of fighting if you strike at someone and they go to block and you turn off your lightsaber at the point where it would have connected with your opponent's weapon or lightsaber and then turn it on just after it passes and they did a static block not a riposte where they were trying to attack you it's just a static block you would then kill your opponent so turning off your lightsaber would actually be a very viable useful technique that no one is actually doing that or in any of the Star Wars fight scenes in all the movies we'd ever see it would be interesting that you know there was some limitation that you couldn't turn lightsabers on and off so quickly in the middle of a fight scene that there's a couple of seconds delay which means you wouldn't be out of time and so or something like that or see here contradicts that because Rey she turns it off throws the lightsaber all the way to grab a Fang dead see how quickly he turned the lightsaber on and off I'm not sure we've ever seen a lightsaber flash on and then flash off that quickly in all of Star Wars but sorry it could have been interesting that there was a limitation that prevented lightsabers just going bang bang I got on/off but this sets up the you know standard that they can be turned on and off so quickly like that which means why on earth hasn't anyone been using that lightsabers like that in actual fighting turn it off and then turn it off really quickly against the opponent and stuff aside from that yeah it's kind of cool you know she throws it he grabs it twos off and again the guy's armor doesn't do a thing like it's like armor only is effective at certain points and we're not so there we go guys that has been the most in-depth and detailed pedantic breakdown of this fight scene that I could possibly do and it is horrible on nearly every level this is a terrible terrible fight scene now when you say what is terrible sad because if you're not paying attention and it's just a lot of flashy movement okay it does that it's a flashy move in and you know it looks impressive when you're not paying attention but if you have an understanding of proper combative techniques okay actual swordsmanship and you look at the moves being done in this fight it's a nonsensical just stupid mess but there we go and this isn't gonna be the early one this is a new series on shadow versity we're gonna be doing more and sorry if you think I'm only doing this because I dislike the last Jedi who know oh no there's going to be more fight scene autopsies than the next one that I'll be looking at and it can versus obi-wan Kenobi so do subscribe and you know click the notification bell so you don't miss it because it's not gonna be the very next video i spaced my videos apart in the series and other things like that so there'll be a couple of other videos go do that but other videos you will enjoy so do subscribe check it out and stay tuned for the next fight scene autopsy I hope to see you there thank you very much for watching in the meantime and until then [Music]

Channel: Shadiversity

Views: 1,055,451

Keywords: star wars, star, jedi, the last jedi, the force awakens, the last skywalker, rey, kylo, throne room, fight scene, review, analysis, lightsaber, sword, swords, jedi knight, knight, the force, force, space, science ficxtion, fantasy, medieval, sci fi, laser sword, luke skywalker, return of the jedi, a new hope, the empire strikes back, rian johnson, swordfighting, hema, historical european martial arts

Id: qyzwBWsqqw8

Length: 52min 41sec (3161 seconds)

Published: Thu Oct 03 2019