Did Jesus Exist? | David - Oklahoma City, OK | Atheist Experience 21.25

well I just wanted to clarify something as far as a theist believes I've been watching the show for years now one is a you believe well let me clarify do you believe in Jesus that he existed or not existed some do some don't well what do you believe the ability actually existed in history or not I think that it's very likely that there was a historical figure that the stories are tied to but we don't know much at all about him and it may actually bend a number of different people molded into one after the fact I don't I have no idea I'm unconvinced that there was a single individual on which those stories are based and even if we were convinced that there was a single individual I don't know how we would know anything about that person specifically because if you if you go through for example the gospel stories and start there's no way to verify anything they're right down to enter the name or the date or anything Wow I mean a lot of scholars disagree with that I mean a lot of our dollars were in there bro yeah yeah I mean you have university professors too that they spend their whole life you know if you realize that university professors that you do I realize those university professors who spent their entire life studying this who also think that Jesus didn't exist that's true I agree with that but you know if you go by a bridge you've got a very car bird you know higher in very high in educational systems my thing is I'm not going to say Jesus didn't exist my issue is I could say Jesus existed but I don't know if we have a good record of his words and deeds I could say Jesus existed and I think we have a good record of his words but maybe is not a good accurate record of his deeds or not completely accurate I could say I could grant all of those things and it still doesn't tell me whether or not there was an individual who was the Divine Son of God who died for people's sins and rose the third day and reigns forever and have none of that is demonstrable so to me whether or not there was a person is independent to some extent I mean if we could conclusively prove there was no Jesus well then everything about Christianity is done which begs the question it not begs a question I don't like say that race it raises the question if in fact this were true wouldn't Jesus's existence and deeds and words be the single most reliably attested event in all of history to where there could be no question being no question and what way isn't it the thing is if it's true it's the single most important thing in history right oh sure I agree and and it was if it's true now is it that single money had please if it's true not only we have billion don't we have what then we have billions of Christians to test to that no we have nothing today how many how many how many of those billions of Christians were alive in the first century no I'm not repeating that I'm just okay so they're lazy they can't attest for the reliability of the stories that we have that's true that's true now is it cisu if it was what single if it was a single most important thing and this is all part of God's plan wouldn't a wise God make it so that there would be absolute reliable confirmation of every single aspect of this to where there could be no doubt yeah yeah the people call Bible that's a lot a lot of em oh happy that you don't really have issues with the paucity of the Bible you know I know people I know people I know there are people who don't have an issue with the veracity of the Bible but that doesn't mean that they're correct the fact that you're convinced it so you do realize it for example we don't have any of the originals right look better that's a matter of opinion okay it's not it is a it is a matter of opinion David but also there are ways in which we go about determining whether something's read to believe now we have none of the originals Yeah right none of the originals let's just stick with the four Gospels okay we don't have original copies of the Gospels correct correct we don't even know who wrote the Gospels correct well I mean the they sign their name no they did not know the Gospels of the Gospels are unsigned we have no idea who wrote them the labels Matthew Mark Luke and John are a matter of church tradition but that's not who wrote it well okay let's look all can see you know I'll concede this part okay because I know where this is but look you know usually that Jesus go ahead you believe that Jesus stood in history but what about what about Rome when they decided to make Christianity the state religion okay a hundred years later yeah three to five why would ya why would the most sophisticated education Edge's educated country here in the world decide to choose Christianity because its leader became finance because its leader became convinced either of its truthfulness or of its usefulness okay so now you've got a government declaring declaring the official religion of Rome not hey a bunch of people a bunch of people didn't become convinced of the truth of it the leader declared this is a new official religion is that the way we should be encouraging the adoption of religions by government sanction and edict so no I I agree with that so why why raise Rome because throughout 300 years after Jesus purportedly existed a country adopts that religion that tells us nothing about whether or not is true right no what is it what it does tell me that something miraculous happened what looks like let's know relax well it would be like the United States becoming Muslims all Muslim religion that would be America entity that would be uh 300 years it would be a miracle for the United States why would it be a miracle for a country which had an official religion to change its official religion well let's maybe miracle is a little bit overstated okay let's just say it a phenomenon okay it's an interesting phenomena now tell me why it happened is it more likely that happened because the religion is true or are there other reasons that might actually be more likely well I believe that the religion was true it provided everything that's not what I asked Andy I didn't ask what you believe about the religion I you're propping up this country changing its official religion to Christianity as if it has some significance about the truth of it and so I'm asking is this change more likely due to the truth of the religion or are there other explanations that might actually be more likely well there could be but we don't have any you know what's strange is that you know there there was approximately three million Christians in Rome towards the end of their of the era but we don't have one letter of a Roman citizen saying what is with this big Christianity do you know where the way they do you know where the word atheist came from well tell me it's what the Romans called the Christians when they didn't believe in the Roman gods okay see here's a thing do you have do you have one letter which tells us tells me that and you point a link or a reference I'm sure you can use Google to look up the origins of the word and what's wrong is called oh but but let's say let's say how letting let David let's say that I didn't have a letter what difference does it make well it's called it's called proof so you know kangan writing some yeah you want proof well I'm just trying to provide the proof yeah looking for I'm time at I've asked you several times because when you offer something that you seem to think is a reliable offering of evidence for the truth of Christianity every time I question it you acknowledge that it might not be so I'm just trying to get to you know the facts I know you're putting words in my mouth now no I'm sure if we go back and rewind you put the words there yourself but just in case you think I'm just in case that's the day my day David just in case you think I'm tricking you what reason do you have to think that Christianity is true and real what reason do I have yes a for one is that I have the Word of God how do you know you have the word of global how do you know the Bible is a word a gun because that's what the Bible says okay the Word of God that's called a circular argument it's a fallacy to use the very thing you're trying to prove as the proof do you know how many of reality are sorry not absent if it's scary let me stop a fallacy yeah it's it's a fallacy whether it's true or not actually but if and the question is how do you know that it's true you can't say I trust the Bible because the Bible says it's the Word of God because I can write an I can write you a note that says it's from God does that mean it's where it's from God well I based it on faith okay is there any position you couldn't hold based on faith no not really so if you could hold the big if you could hold the faith-based position that the Bible is real and true in the Word of God and you could also hold a face and you can also hold a faith-based position that the Bible is not real and true in the Word of God then doesn't that mean that faith is not a reliable path to No well then tell is what's your definitely I turn definition of faith Dave yeah it doesn't matter it doesn't matter what my definition isn't let me measure no it doesn't David no it doesn't gave it let me explain you just said that there's no position one could not hold basing it on faith so somebody could believe the Bible based on faith and somebody could believe the Bible is false based on faith correct no I okay I've misunderstood that last part you don't think it's positive you don't think it's possible for someone to believe that the Bible is false based on faith correct okay why not well first of all we have to have to identify what faith is yeah faith is the excuse people give for believing something when they don't have a good reason now okay seminary Xzibit your student is that what they talk to you i well so what what how would you define faith plate so state comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God that tells me how do you that tells me about how you get to faith that doesn't tell me what faith is skip over a couple of chapters it it no that's not what it is that's how you get to it faith comes by hearing you know what else comes by hearing lies faith the scripture that are actually what the scripture that you're actually looking for David is that faith is the evidence of things hoped for okay so you're fine with that Centuri of that sure except faith out isn't evidence what evidence do you can't say I take it on faith that the Bible is is the Word of God because that's not providing anybody with any evidence that's just a statement of what you believe okay so even your own usage of faith is in conflict with the biblical definition of faith that you got and because the one you offered of faith comes by hearing on truth also comes by hearing the true the untruth comes by hearing okay I can agree with that so is there any is there any position that somebody could hold that they couldn't just say hey I take it on faith I don't have to provide evidence sure I mean that's what faith is you know you don't need it with it you don't require evidence yeah except that I can believe that the Bible's false based on faith right if I don't need any evidence okay okay you'll do that yeah so if I can get to the Bible is true based on faith and I can get to the Bible is false based on faith that means the application of faith can lead me to both something that's true and something that's not true correct mmm well I think you're going down a rabbit tunnel but I'm pretty sure all I did was took exactly what you just agreed to and expose the I your unjustified but we are completely out of time for the show thanks for calling David you can call back another way

Channel: The Atheist Experience

Views: 273,319

Rating: 4.8229489 out of 5

Keywords: atheist experience, the atheist experience, theatheistexperience, atheist, atheism, atheist vs christian, atheist debate, religion debate, atheism debate, Matt Dillahunty (Broadcast Artist), belief, faith, reason, rational, proof, evidence, logic, fallacy, religion, religious, science, secular, Skepticism, skeptic, questioning god, doubt, is god real, agnostic, agnosticism, evidence for god, Christianity, Islam, morality, evidence for jesus, Jesus, Jesus Christ, debate, Bible, Bible contradictions

Id: apS_679ru50

Length: 14min 25sec (865 seconds)

Published: Wed Jun 28 2017