How Can Anyone Be An Atheist? | Manda - Lynchburg, VA | Atheist Experience 22.09

how you doing I'm scared okay I'll make this easier Jamie's far less scary than I am and he said I get to talk I'll let him talk you don't have anything to be scared of yeah I'm nice well I listened to that last call and yeah I feel like I'm be honest a friend of mine dared me to call y'all she said y'all were real nice my question I guess was just I don't understand how anyone could be an atheist I mean I live my life I try to live my life you know to serve God and to be a good person and when she said oh I talked to you a theist that's it ow yeah I don't know so I don't know whether you called the show before maybe just have you called the show before no okay you sound a little bit familiar okay so you say that you don't understand how anyone can be an atheist you'd be clear I know sorry go ahead well it to be clear when I say I am an atheist for example I mean there's a bunch of people saying this God exists that God exists Yahweh Jehovah Allah Vishnu and I say I don't see it just is that what you're saying or you're saying people that run around and set cars on fire and attack churches because I've heard that as well what you do no no no I just I just wanted to clarify because that one of those two things is a lot more unbelievable and outrageous what do you what do what do you mean why do you mean my atheist yeah someone who doesn't believe in God okay okay so are you wondering like I was a believer before you wondering how I got to where I am or would that would that be a helpful thing for me to tell you about yeah yeah okay so for for most of my life I believed that a God exists that it was the God of the Bible vaguely I was baptized and raised as an Episcopalian oh you I mean a high church thanks yeah are you a what denomination are you well I heard Matt say Southern Methodist but I'm independent Baptists Oh you heathen no I'm just kidding I I actually and and I'm gonna let Jamie go but I actually would occasionally go to Pentecostal churches because they had better concerts you know like you could go see Carmen Carmen and Petra and stuff like that you but I was also I wasn't just on the Baptist I was primarily Southern Baptist but we went to other churches on occasion as well but yeah yeah you can go to the gospel churches for the best music and well I got it up because there's a whole series of jokes like oh you know if you're a Baptist but on the weekends you can be a Methodist because you want to have a drink but if you really want to get wild then you know for a weekend you're an Episcopalian because then you can dance and have a drink in that you know whatever but you know so I was I was baptized and raised as an Episcopalian right so we would always go Easter and Christmas but often times we'd go as well in between you know just regular Sundays and you know recently I've had to look back I mean like how religious was I when I was you know religious like how did that was I because it seems weird for me now to get into that mindset and I found a whole series of prayers that I'd written down and actually had after I went to Catholic high school I started collecting rosaries because that kind of thing seemed really cool to me so I believe devoutly I prayed etc and then after a while I bumped into some ideas and some questions okay well what is a reliable way of determining what's true right if someone stole the cookie from the cookie jar how do you actually figure out who it is so that all the kids in the class will stop ringing singing that annoying repetitive song right you investigate and you figure out if they've got chocolate on hands right but what I found was the only time when I said oh okay how do I figure out what's true I Neal I pray and I think about what's going on in my head the only time I used that method to figure out what's true was on questions of God and that was the only method I could use and then I thought about okay well we have cars and machines and we have you know I'm amazingly you know fantastic planes and computers how did we determine how you know electricity works how we can design a plane that ways I don't know how unbelievably heavy planes are it's like several tons it flies through the air and carries people with it how did we figure that out and I realize like okay well we studied things that we could observe and we tested them and we improved it and we tested them and we improved it and we in tested them then we improved it right a hundred years ago if you went into a university and you went into the science department or you went into even mathematics or what literature you'd have an extra hundred years of literature now right you could go back and be like hey guys here's this information from a hundred years and now it's all updated it's all new if you took information from a theology department today and you went back a hundred years you would have nothing new to tell them which kind of tells me about whether or not the methods being used to figure this out have evolved or developed or found anything new and given that they contradict each other it sort of didn't lend any credibility to well okay how did you come to this conclusion that there is a gun right particularly in mathematics they can say oh here's why two plus two equals four here's a giant logical proof for why one plus one equals two and it's a huge breakthrough oh and how do you know that this is what makes what is it baking soda and vinegar expand you can test it you can figure it out you can look at things on a microscopic level nothing like that exists for God and humans all over the world come to very very very different conclusions about God often times two people that go to the same church people all over the world oftentimes two people that go to the same church who live in the same house come to very very different conclusions about who to vote for what their favorite movie is what's fashionable what's not what the best food is so if I'm looking at the way that people determine whether or not a God exists it looks a lot like people trying to figure out what they like and I know I've gone a little bit off the rails here and talked for a little period of time for me it's just I'm I'm in much like Jamie I'm not convinced I am in fact convinced that some of them are wrong and hopefully demonstrable so but I realize there's countless claims about different gods they can't all be correct but they could all be wrong I'm not assuming that all of them are wrong but of the many how do I go about figuring out which if any of these are correct or even likely to be correct and not to be glib but I can probably not off the top of my head but I could probably come up with a list of a thousand gods you don't believe in and you know the old joke is that atheists just go one God further but the other the other thing aspect of this is that Jews think that Christians are wrong Christians think that Muslims are wrong Muslims think that Hindus are wrong but you know we are agreeing with all of them and we are baffled that any one person could reasonably justify saying nope this is the right one and then the joke which has nothing to do with this is that Jews don't recognize Jesus Protestants don't recognize the Pope and Baptist don't recognize each other in the liquor store well I mean I know that and I'm trying to follow you often sorry I mean I know that my god is real my grandson when he was two he had a tumor on his pituitary gland and I'm sorry I didn't want to treat it they did the MRA I and and they did another one six months later it was same size and they did another one six months after that and it had shrunk and they didn't I looked they literally did not do any treatment and I don't I mean we I don't know how that's possible without God we were all praying for him and hoping he would be well and he's doing real well now and it it's the last time they did the MRI it had disappeared I mean I've seen miracles in my own life that how else could that be so well are you gonna well which so one of the things is hey there are parts of the story that I have difficulty believing that there repeatedly doing MRIs and there's no treatment but that may be the case but we know that cancer goes into remission that's fine that's that's fine that's fine I'm not saying you're lying I'm saying that I'm getting a second hand so I'm trying to explain we know that cancer goes into remission we know the tumors shrink you started by saying you know your God is real and then you went to the story about your to your was a grandson right yeah yeah and then what you said about that is I don't know how that could happen without God that is a claim that is not I know God did this it's I can't come up with any other explanation other than God and yet there's no demonstration that there is a God could be a God or that a God could do this there's a logical fallacy involved in your reasoning that is I can't think of any other explanation so I'm gonna go with this one and even if you could do that to say you know hey my dog came in wet I don't know how that could happen unless it was raining granted I know that we know that your neighbor could have had turned the hose on it or whatever else that could have gone swimming but to say that I don't know how that could happen if it's not raining is not in any way confirmation that it's raining it's in it's a mistake and reasoning and so people can forever talk about the anecdotes of somebody have this illness we prayed and it got better the problem is how do you demonstrate that the prayer had anything to do with it or that there was a God who answered that prayer specifically because we've tested intercessory prayer and it works at the rate of chance or or worse when people actually know they're being prayed for it works less performance things are so these personal anecdotes of hey I saw this and I don't have an explanation for it awesome then the correct answer is you don't have an explanation for it but you're trying to simultaneously say I don't have an explanation therefore it must be God and that's how we got to every every time somebody is has offered God as an explanation and we've gone on to find the actual explanation the answer was never God not once I don't know I don't really I don't know what you mean by intercessory prayer me praying from that like praying for another person praying that God intercede on their behalf just yeah to clarify it so you don't you don't think that works we know it doesn't work it's been tested and when we've examined we've found indicates that it does not change what happens in the world it doesn't matter who's praying what God they're praying to you could flip a coin and and it would be heads of tails just as good an indicator as to whether or not you're gonna see any improvement that somebody's prayed over yeah I'm sorry I just don't that doesn't make any sense to me I understand that you know you so I mean you I mean I know sorry go ahead no no you were in the middle of a high dad just I mean you know I've lost a lot of people in my life and and God has told me I'm gonna meet them someday again and my grandson Andrew is is healthy today and so how does I don't know how you can say that wasn't God well we're not saying it wasn't God we're saying there's no reason to think it was God that's different but how does God tell you that you're gonna meet these people again um I don't know I I don't know yeah this is this is one of the things about the language when we start talking about God and this is not this is not prom with you Amanda and and I can appreciate having at least somewhat been there the idea that you've been you've been convinced most of your life that someday you're going to go to heaven you're gonna be reunited with all your loved ones and everything's going to be wonderful and the very idea that this might not be true is not just potentially terrifying it can be almost traumatizing and I think this is one of the distresses yeah and oh gosh yeah I know good when people cry I think this is one of the disservice is you know I was just thinking about my sister I lost my sister when I was 13 but I'd see her again I always believed I would this is one of the things where I think religions have done a disservice to all of us because death is a natural part of life and what religions have done it's awful I am and what religions have done is put death in a context that eases people's frustration anxiety mourning by propping up a story oh I'll get to meet them again now even if that were true which we not only don't have good reason to think it's true there's good reason to think that there's no such thing as a soul or anything that of me that could exist anywhere else but if instead we told people that we have no good reason to think that there's an afterlife that gets people to focus on treating people right in this life and making the most of it and valuing with it valuing it so that when death apart from you know instances where it's just a surprise shock you know I can't imagine a parent losing a child but it helps us to deal with it better and if it turns out then that there's an afterlife anyway bonus okay it's a bonus but at least it t not depending on the afterlife encourages us to do better in our interactions in the one and only life that we know we get I'm sorry wait what did you mean that I didn't treat her right he wasn't I don't know I don't know not used specifically you he's not saying that you didn't treat your sister yeah he's saying that in in general if you tell people this life that you have where you're bumping into other people on the street that's the only life that you're gonna have that's the only life that they're gonna have and you bump into him and you just a person just cut not you sorry if Steve bumps into Bob and Steve cusses out Bob and they go their separate ways and Steve goes you know I really shouldn't have done that well you know when I see him in heaven then I'll make it right yeah I'm not wasn't talking about you there are people who have a who's one of their concerns about this is I didn't get to say goodbye I didn't tell them I love them enough it's not about mistreating oh well I'll get to make up for that later if you don't think you get to make up for it later you tell people you love them more you show that you appreciate it more you exercise a bit more patience or at least you can not everybody's going to it a person not not you specifically you know when after she I was 13 which he got so you know it was really hard and and I talked to a friend of mine was Catholic and and I went to church with her one time and I told the Catholic priest because I was were saddened and I told him about what happened and my sister committed suicide so and he told me she was in hell no you didn't say it that way I mean well he said something like those effect which yeah another example you know like Jimmy Julian paradise or whatever so that explains why you're not and I held that or the last time I saw her yeah but this this is the thing and it actually gets worse than this it's not just about propping up what is almost certainly false hope it fundamentally changes the way we interact with people and yet here's the thing there are countless different views about an afterlife if the Catholics are right maybe you don't meet up oh and by the way if the Catholics are right you're not a Catholic you're not going to meet up with anybody anyway and so we can hang out I hear from from yeah I hear from atheists who've been longtime atheists and yet they're still concerned about fears of Hell the hell they were indoctrinated into and the answer that I tend to give is how much time do you spent worrying about the hells of other religions that you weren't brought up leaving in my thing is an atheist I don't think that I don't have any reason to think that anything about me will survive my death I don't think there's a soul I don't think there's an afterlife and I could spend my entire life sad and miserable and depressed about the fact that I'm not going to get to go be with Jesus or whoever or meet my loved ones again and all that would do is make my life worse if in fact this is the only life that I get which is what the evidence points to so far then it's in my best interest to not dwell on the way things aren't but to focus on as best I can the way things are and this is why the kind of ancient notions of some religions I think are poisoning our interpersonal relationships to the point where if you don't believe what I believe not and let me let me take that out of you and me there are parents who disown their children if they if they identify that they're an atheist we have to find new homes for them I don't care if Mike never did that yeah I wouldn't either and good for you if if my child turned out to be a serial killer I would say all day long that they were absolutely horrible that they've done horrible things and were in fact terrible people and yet I would still love my kid and yet merely for disagreements about not just whether or not there is a god but which God is the right God which afterlife's the right left should men be able to have sex with each other should women be able to have sex with each other which is less objectionable generally which I find kind of hypocritical but all of these things that drive us apart tend to come from religious ideas that nobody can prove oh it's just opinion dude yes but you're legislating your opinion and you're treating other people based on that opinion doesn't that matter what people believe matters and I think religions not only can't demonstrate that they're true but I think that they've done a great deal of harm and are continuing to do so but does that make any sense well yes I think y'all were were real nice I mean but I mean bottom line if I if I believed I would never see my sister my brother again I don't think I could bear it and that's and that's why I want my objection to really talking logic you all are talking logic and I I think also we're talking here because this is my objection to religion if in fact you had grown up with the understanding that death was almost certainly the end you you would have the tools to bear it but because religions have convinced you that this is the case they haven't equipped you with the tools to mourn properly to take stock of of life because I've lost people that I love and I can continue my life and I'm going to be sad I'm gonna miss them I'm gonna miss the interactions with them but life is its own reward and the and if I look at the time time that I spend with them as the reward then instead of focusing on some reward and an afterlife then everything about my interactions are better I'm sorry what kind of tools do you mean I don't know oh sorry Amanda finisher thought I didn't mean to jump on I said I said what kind of tool do you mean I don't know I mean I mean mental and emotional tools so people deal with loss and grief in many different ways there are some people who have a more practical view now for example when my grandfather died I was I was pleased not because I didn't like him but because he had been in unbelievable suffering for a long time and I was glad yeah that I had Sharon he didn't believe he was with his King no I think he's dead and I think that's what all the other points do okay but his situation was so bad that death was preferable to continued suffering and I still have all those years in all those stories to look back at our member on and be happy that I was able to share part of my life with him and not have all of that diminished by not by not having the idea that I was going to see him again it's like if you were told though for me from birth to your 18 that when you were 18 you were going to inherit a billion dollars and you get to 18 and you find out hey you're not going to inherit a billion dollars if you spend the rest of your life mourning the fact that you'd not getting your billion dollars the rest of your life is going to be miserable and and I can't throw away life like that because it's the only life I have what do you do with your love for your grandfather I study you're missing you're well presumably he misses his I mean what four people and I've lost I I missed them but really quickly if I can circle back around to your statement if I didn't believe that I was going to see them again I don't think that I could bear it Matt yeah and I don't believe that we're gonna see our loved ones that have passed away or that have died we don't I don't think we're gonna see them again but we have tools to bear it there are resources for this and even if you continue to believe in a God the resources that are provided that help Matt and myself process this can also work for you they don't require non-belief and yeah a God and given that you know even if you're in a stable place where you are like oh yes I'll see them again it's always possible for a person to convert or D convert and given that right now you don't have a view of a way of grieving without God and that right now you have God and that in five years rightly or wrongly you might have a different God or no God that you believe in I don't want you to in five years in that circumstance not have the tools and the processes and the resources that are available to non-believers to grieve I'm gonna we're gonna have to wrap up in a minute I'm gonna put you back on hold because I think they wanted to scream I want to say something but I'll say this there's there's one tool that has benefited me and it works when I believed in God and when I didn't and that's this the people that I miss that I'm mourning how would they want me to live my life would they want me to sit around yeah and miss them or would they want me to live life to the fullest and even if my grandfather and I he never he died before I was publicly an atheist even if he fundamentally disagreed with me and even if he turned out to be right and he's in heaven I'm confident that what he wants for me is to not be distraught forever about his death that I get to go on and I get to laugh and I get to experience new things and perhaps there are new people who enter my life and they're not loved less or valued less because of this the weight of his absence he would want me perhaps to love them more as a matter of fact he'd probably tell me get over it you know and and because that's was the gruff kind of guy that he was on occasion my grandfather would be hey why are you worried about me I lived you know late 70s or whatever and you got a wife and you need to worry about that if you're just gonna sit her out what did I teach I would get a lecture and so and I loved that and the fact that I have those memories makes me it doesn't change the fact that I'm sad that he's gone but I don't have to be miserable that he's not here and on that note I apologize I'm gonna put you back on hold so they do what I just want to say think I didn't think I'd end up crying on the call thank you no no I mean not those kind of teachers yeah that's what happened for being real nice and I appreciated the conversation thank you so much for cloud and wait you know okay y'all take care [Laughter] no I got

Channel: The Atheist Experience

Views: 780,751

Rating: 4.879159 out of 5

Keywords: atheist experience, the atheist experience, theatheistexperience, atheist, atheism, atheist vs christian, atheist debate, religion debate, atheism debate, Matt Dillahunty (Broadcast Artist), belief, faith, reason, rational, proof, evidence, logic, fallacy, religion, religious, science, secular, Skepticism, skeptic, questioning god, doubt, is god real, agnostic, agnosticism, evidence for god, Christianity, Islam, morality, evidence for jesus, Jesus, Jesus Christ, debate, Bible, Bible contradictions

Id: XRxAqj4R_vw

Length: 27min 26sec (1646 seconds)

Published: Wed Mar 14 2018

Reddit Comments

[u/Reasonable_Thinker]

This definitely moved me, it was so interesting to see this woman come in with such a defiant attitude and about halfway through seeing their point of view.

I really understood that feeling of desperation at not being able to see your family again as well. This was an excellent conversation and it really moved me.

I'd recommend anyone who has lost someone close to give it a watch.

[u/notrusseltdavies]

I don't think she lost her faith, she just gained an understanding of a more secular view of death.

[u/Amadacius]

This show is actually great. I've seen a few of their videos and they are so respectful, sensitive and always know a great way to address different concerns.

[u/Alvinmcnoodle1]

I had this playing audio only in my garage last weekend whilst working on my motorcycles.

It made me cry and my hands were too greasy to wipe my eyes.

[u/HeavyMetaler]

This one got me, too. While I don't think this caller was deconverted, I feel she definitely came to a few realizations. This may bolster her faith or make her question more things. I guess time will tell.

[u/reinbarb]

When I lost my faith, it was like a physical blow, having to grieve the loss of loved ones all over again.

[u/JCnaitchii]

Great video :)

[u/rharmelink]

If prayer heals so well, why aren't emergency vehicles delivering injured victims to churches instead of hospitals?

Prayers work for football games. One of the teams usually wins. Not always the one with more prayers. :)

[u/celegroz]

I love the softer, more gentler Matt. Maybe it's just because I'm getting older, but dealing with people like this is so much more effective than deriding their beliefs. It's difficult when you're confronted with fundamental whack-job but, I still find the best approach is to always take the high-road. The Socratic method really works!