Before our main story tonight, I'd like to do something
a little different and just quickly tell you
about a beloved icon of my childhood,
and it's this man... WOMAN:<i> For 20 years he made
the dreams of young people</i> <i> come true,</i> <i> with his hugely popular</i>
Jim'll Fix It<i> program.</i> <i> Best known for his
trademark jewelry,</i> <i> track suits, tinted glasses,
and Havana cigar.</i> Now, I know it's
hard to believe, but that bizarre looking man,
Jimmy Savile, was a national hero. We named places for him,
we gave him a knighthood, we even put up
this statue of him, even though it clearly looks
more like a cheese sculpture
of George Carlin -that someone left in the sun.
-(AUDIENCE LAUGHING) Now, he had a show called<i>
Jim'll Fix It,</i> where he basically
granted wishes. And like many British kids,
I actually wrote to him. I asked him to make me the mascot
for Liverpool football club, and he never wrote back. Which I'm actually glad about,
because after he died, Britain began to find out
who he really was. And the truth was horrific. He's gone from a much loved
entertainer, and respected charity
fundraiser, to a man described by
Scotland Yard as a predatory sex offender. <i> Jimmy Savile's headstone
was here</i> <i> for less than three weeks.</i> <i> His epitaph read,
"It was good while it lasted."</i> Oh! That is an unsettling thing to have written
on his gravestone. Although to be fair,
nearly every famous epitaph would sound horrifying written
on a sex offender's gravestone. From Dean Martin's "Everybody
loves somebody sometime," to Rodney Dangerfield's
"There goes the neighborhood." -(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
-You know, funny, funny. But if he'd been
a sex offender, not so much. The point is, Savile's
headstone was taken down, as was that sign,
and that creepy statue, because once we found out
that he was a monster, we accepted it was
no longer appropriate to publicly glorify him. Which actually brings us
to our main story tonight... the Confederacy. America's tracksuit
sex offender. -(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
-Now, in recent years, there has been a robust debate
over Confederate symbols. From flags being taken down,
to statues being removed, to the white nationalist
rallies in Charlottesville. Both the one that
ended in violence in August, and another that happened
just last night. So as this debate is clearly
not going away, we wanted to take a look
at some of the arguments. Because you don't
have to look hard to find people very upset at the idea of Confederate
statues being taken away. You can't change history. You can't pick and choose
what you decide is history. I think they oughta
just leave 'em alone and leave 'em
where they are, you know. They're part of history. I just don't think
we can erase our history. It may not represent
the best idea... that anybody ever came up with. But nevertheless,
it's part of our history. And, uh,
I think it should stay there. You know what,
I'll give him this, he is right that the Confederacy
and everything that came with it is, to put it mildly,
"not the best idea... -(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
-anybody ever came up with." Because that of course
is making grilled cheese on a toaster turned sideways. That is a billion-dollar idea that is also
completely worthless. -(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
-But they're also right about one thing. We should
remember our history, so tonight, let's do that. And let's look at the unique
heritage of these symbols. Starting with the fact
that there are a lot more than you might expect. REPORTER:<i>
The Southern Poverty Law Center</i> <i> found some 1,500 Confederate
memorials across the country.</i> <i> More than 700 of them
are statues and monuments,</i> <i> and ten U.S. military bases</i> <i> are named for
Confederate officers.</i> Think about that. There are U.S. military bases
named for Confederate officers. And they were the enemy.
They killed U.S. soldiers. That's like finding out that
Nancy Kerrigan -named her child Tonya Harding.
-(AUDIENCE LAUGHING) Why would you do that?
That's a weird choice. And tributes to the Confederacy
are everywhere in the South, and notably some
in the North too. And that map doesn't include
kitschy ways that the Civil War is presented,
like at this family restaurant: ANNOUNCER:<i>
Dolly Parton's Dixie Stampede</i> <i> brings a rip roaring
taste of America to life.</i> <i> Dixie's Stampede
is a musical extravaganza</i> <i> of sight and sound.</i> <i> Centered around a friendly
North-South rivalry,</i> <i> friendly servers bring
the delicious four course feast</i> <i> right to you.</i> <i> Including a whole
rotisserie chicken,</i> <i> and all the Pepsi, iced tea,
or coffee you like.</i> Yes. That is
a Confederate soldier serving a small child
all the Pepsi she likes. Which is still remarkably only Pepsi's second worst
ad campaign. (AUDIENCE LAUGHING
AND CHEERING) And the thing is if you grew up
with experiences like that, it can seem like the Civil War
is just a friendly rivalry. A fun, colorful part
of U.S. history. But that omits the key fact
about the Civil War. The Confederacy was fighting for
the preservation of slavery. And that's not my opinion,
that is just a fact. There are many ways
that we know this. Slavery is mentioned in
multiple state's declarations of secession with Mississippi saying, "Our position
is thoroughly identified with the institution
of slavery." The Confederate Constitution
contains a clause enshrining slavery forever. And then there's the speech
Alexander Stephens, the Confederate vice president
gave in 1861, in which he articulated
the basic principles for the Confederate nation. ALEXANDER STEPHENS:<i>
Its foundations are laid.</i> <i> Its cornerstone rests upon
the great truth</i> <i> that the Negro is not
equal to the white man.</i> <i> That slavery, subordination
to the superior race,</i> <i> is his natural and
normal condition.</i> Wow. Subordination to
the superior race. That is explicit. If the Confederacy was not
about slavery, somebody should really
go back in time and tell the fucking
Confederacy that. -(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
-And yet, remarkably, many people think the Civil War
was over something else. REPORTER 2:<i> When people
were asked, "What do they think</i> <i> the main cause
of the Civil War is?"</i> <i> 48% said,
"Mainly about states' rights."</i> <i> Only 38% said,
"Mainly about slavery."</i> <i> Nine percent said "both."</i> And that is amazing. Only 38% thought the Civil War
was mainly about slavery. In other words,
look to your left, now look to your right, statistically all three of you
live in a country where only 38% percent of people -think the Civil War
was mainly about slavery.
-(AUDIENCE LAUGHING) And on that "states' rights"
argument, for the record, the Southern states were
ardently pro-states' rights. But with some
glaring exceptions. Notably, when Northern states passed laws to help protect
runaway slaves, the South wanted
the federal government to override those states laws. So, they loved states' rights, as long as they were
the right states' rights. The wrong states' rights
would be states' wrongs, wrongs which would
need to be righted by the right states' rights--
look, to put it really simply, they just wanted to
own black people, -and they didn't much care how.
-(AUDIENCE LAUGHING) That's a fact! But that's a very hard fact
for some people to accept. Especially if a member
of your family fought for the Confederacy. And sometimes,
the understandable desire to want to distance
your relative from that cause can lead to people
distorting the cause itself. Just watch as one man at a community meeting
in North Carolina defended a Confederate statue by talking about
his family history. My great grandfather
was a Confederate soldier. And I was proud of that. Because my opinion of his fight was for his rights. I don't know what
his rights were. I wasn't there. He was dead long before
I came along. But I'm really concerned
about our monument. I want it to stay. It reminds me that I got
a little rebel in me. You know, we all want to
kind of be independent. We all have a little
rebel in us, even the ladies. -Ooh! Even the ladies!
-(AUDIENCE LAUGHING) Hashtag feminism,
hashtag confedera-she. -(AUDIENCE LAUGHING, APPLAUDING)
-And look, look. I don't know, I don't know why his great grandfather
fought. It is hard to know
the motivations of any individual soldier. What we do know is that
again, collectively, they were fighting to preserve
the institution of slavery. And I do get, honestly,
I honestly get wanting a more comfortable
history for your family. But in doing so,
you can't invent a more comfortable history
for your country. Because you would be erasing
the actual painful experiences of many Americans. As a fellow North Carolinian
explains. When I walk by this statue,
I-- it becomes very painful when I think of the suffering
that my ancestors went through. They enslaved people. Abused people for their own
economic impact. <i> And it should not be
celebrated by these statues.</i> Right. And that is
the harsh reality of what was done by
those Confederate men. And yes, even the ladies, -hashtag confedera-she.
-(AUDIENCE LAUGHING) If you want to see
a perfect crystallization of what happens when
two people have wildly different views
of the same symbol, just watch this
local news clip. Why do you carry that flag? Because this is my heritage. My family fought
to save their farm under this flag. Who was working that farm? Ooh! (AUDIENCE LAUGHING IN DISBELIEF) That is a good, tough question. And the news clip
actually cut out there, but we were so intrigued to
find out what his response was we tracked it down. And whatever you are expecting,
you're going to be surprised. -MAN: Who was working that farm?
-My family was! -Who was working the farm?
-They were poor, Do you know how much
a slave cost back then?! -(AUDIENCE SHOUTING)
-Oh! Whoa, whoa, whoa! You know you are in the wrong when you decide
your best argument is screaming at a black man, "Do you know how expensive
you used to be?!" It is-- It is comments like that one that landed this guy
on the cover of <i> Holy Shit That Is Not
Remotely The Point</i> magazine. (AUDIENCE LAUGHING) And look, that-- that is clearly
an intense example. But denial of this painful
part of history can take many forms. Look at PBS's<i>
Finding Your Roots,</i> where Henry Louis Gates
explores celebrities' family histories, and he often finds some shit. Famously, Ben Affleck
pulled strings to get the show
to remove all references to his slave-owning ancestors. And though he later apologized, that impulse right there
is not good. Because it sanitizes history. And while there is no
easy way to respond to learning that kind of
horrible information, it is worth watching
Anderson Cooper find out how one relative of his died. Boykin was murdered by
a rebellious slave. Wow. Your ancestor was
beaten to death with a farm hoe. (LAUGHS)
Oh my God. That's amazing.
This is incredible. (LAUGHS) I am blown away. -You think he deserved it?
-ANDERSON COOPER: Yeah. -Wow. You know what?
-(AUDIENCE CLAPPING) You know what,
as a general rule, just try not to live a life ...that could lead a descendant
of yours to one day say, "A guy smashed
grand-poppy's head in with a garden hoe? That's amazing.
Great job 'That Guy!'" (LAUGHING) But, my absolute
favorite response to a nasty surprise, undoubtedly
comes from Larry David, who received
a real one-two punch. Are you telling me that
my great-grandfather fought for the South? In the Civil War? (LAUGHS) What? Are you kidding? Oh, my goodness... I hope no slaves show up
on this-- Please turn the page. (MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER HOLLERS) Now, Larry, this is
another part of the 18th-- Oh-- oh, you did it!
You did it! -I knew it! I knew it!
-(GATES LAUGHING) -Unbelievable!
-Unbelievable. Boy. HENRY LOUIS GATES JR:
That's b-- unbelievable. Oh boy, oh boy. -Yeah. Prettay, prettay,
-(AUDIENCE LAUGHING) pretty bad! Pretty bad! And look! Larry David
is not responsible for what his ancestors did. None of us are. I have to believe that,
because I'm English. -(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
-And I would like to go to an Indian restaurant again
at some point in my life. (LAUGHING CONTINUES) But-- but we do have to reckon
personally, and as a country with what our heritage means. You can't ignore it like Batman, you can't say
it's something else like town meeting Santa, you've got to actively,
painfully, come to grips with slavery, and the lasting benefits
and disadvantages that if conferred. In ways that, frankly,
we haven't yet. And that actually brings us back
to Confederate monuments, because there is
something about them that that symbolizes our reluctance
to have that conversation and that is the dates
that they went up. Because while some
initial memorials were built mainly in cemeteries,
shortly after the Civil War, the real surge came
much, much later. MALE REPORTER 1:<i>
The Southern Poverty Law Center</i> <i> says a majority</i> <i> of the more than 700
Confederate monuments</i> <i> in public spaces
across the country,</i> <i> were erected decades
after General Lee's surrender.</i> It's true, as this chart of the years that
they were dedicated shows, there was a big spike
from 1900 to 1920 as white southerners were
re-asserting their dominance through things like
Jim Crow laws, uh, with another spike in the
50s and 60s as the Civil Rights Movement
was gaining steam, so those statues weren't so much commemorating
recently fallen dead, as sending
a pretty hostile message to African-Americans. And sending messages is kind of
what statues are often for. This one says,
"We love freedom." This one says, "The most notable thing
about our city -is a fictional character."
-(AUDIENCE LAUGHING) (STAMMERS) And this one says,
"About yay big." -(LAUGHING CONTINUES)
-We still don't know... what he was trying to measure,
but whatever it was, -it was... "About yay big."
-(LAUGHING CONTINUES) But... look, for some
Confederate statues though, for some Confederate statues
the intent is crystal clear. In that town meeting
from before, the statue that
they were debating was this one, which went up
in 1914 and a leader of
that county's chapter of the KKK gave a speech at its dedication, calling the occasion
an opportunity "To recall the achievements
of the great and good of our own race and blood." Which, again, is pretty
on-the-nose right there. And the largest
Confederate memorial, the carving on Stone Mountain
in Georgia, is located where the
20th century KKK was born. It depicts
three Confederate leaders on horseback, and
it was completed in 1972, so that means
there is color footage of the dedication. After nearly half a century
of work, the memorial carving here at Stone Mountain
is finally finished. And officials are calling it
the eighth wonder of the world. We must recall those principals
of loyalty, dignity and honor that shine through
the lives of men we commemorate today. Yes. That was
Vice President Spiro Agnew commemorating the loyalty
of literal traitors. But, what can you really expect
from a man whose name, rearranged, spells
"Grow a Penis." -(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
-And... and some-- here's the thing. Some monuments went up
even more recently. I-- I wanna show you one that was erected
on private lands, but very much for
public consumption. Because once you see it,
you will not forget it. MALE REPORTER 2:<i>
The statue was erected in 1998.</i> <i> It portrays
Nathan Bedford Forrest</i> <i> on his horse.</i> <i> Gun in one hand,
and sword in the other.</i> <i> Surrounded by
Confederate state battle flags,</i> <i> visible for all to see
on the side of I-65.</i> (CARS DRIVING BY) MALE REPORTER 2:<i> Forrest was
a Confederate general</i> <i>-and an early leader of the KKK.</i>
-(AUDIENCE LAUGHING) That is just
objectively terrifying regardless of context. He looks like if a nickel
did cocaine. -(LAUGHING CONTINUES)
-So-- so some of these statues commemorate people who thought
a war to preserve slavery, were erected to preserve
white supremacy and were dedicated by
Klan members and yet, there is a blanket defense that tends to get
authored by people and not just people,
also, this guy. They're trying to take away...
our culture. They're trying to take away
our history. Okay, that argument is
taking these statues down obliterates history, which is
clearly just ridiculous. First, monuments are not
how we record history, books are. Museums are. Ken Burns
12-part mini-series are. Statues are how we
glorify people. Or, in the case of one in Tokyo,
how we glorify giant radioactive lizards. -(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
-And yet, the President's concern
seems to be that tearing down statues
leads to a slippery slope. This week it's Robert E. Lee. I noticed that Stonewall Jackson's
coming down, I wonder, is it
George Washington next week? And is it Thomas Jefferson
the week after? You know, you all-- you really do
have to ask yourself, "Where does it stop?" Okay, well,
I'll tell you where it stops. Somewhere. Anytime someone asks,
"Where does it stop?" The answer is always,
"Fucking somewhere!" You might let your kid
have Twizzlers, but not inject black-tar heroin. -(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
-You d-- you don't just go, "Well, after the Twizzlers,
where does it stop?" -(LAUGHING CONTINUES)
-And the same is true of Confederate monuments. Think of it this way,
all people, living and dead, exist on what I'm gonna call
The Hitler-Hanks spectrum, from bad to good. -(AUDIENCE LAUGHING, CHEERING)
-And at some point on the spectrum, monuments to honor people
are going to be inappropriate. Although it-- to be fair, it does get tricky
around the middle, where, of course, you'll fine
Adolf Hankler. -(LAUGHING CONTINUES)
-And-- and look, there are clearly people
deserving of statues who were imperfect humans. And sometimes our standards
change over time, which can then get tricky, because you're judging
historical figures by modern standards. But for many
Confederate monuments, especially those erected
well after the Civil War, valorizing the cause or leadership
of the Confederacy, this really isn't a close call. This is your babysitter
showing up in a Jimmy Savile t-shirt. I don't care what you think
that represents, you're not staying home
with my fucking kid tonight. (AUDIENCE LAUGHING) And for Robert E. Lee
in particular, it's actually even easier
because of this. MALE REPORTER 1:<i> Interestingly,
Robert E. Lee was once asked</i> <i> about placing memorials
at Gettysburg in 1869.</i> <i> The former general replied,</i> <i> "I think it wiser... not to
keep open the sores of war,</i> <i> but to follow the examples
of those nations</i> <i> who endeavored to obliterate
the marks of civil strife,</i> <i> to commit to oblivion
the feelings engendered."</i> It's true. Robert E. Lee
was opposed to statues of people like Robert E. Lee. So, any city that decides
to keep a statue of him should at the very least
add a speech bubble saying, "You know, I told you all
specifically, not to do this." (AUDIENCE LAUGHING) So-- so what do we do now? Well-- well, I would argue
that nothing is not acceptable, and-- and trying
to paper over the cracks can actually make things worse. In the 1990s, Richmond tried
to fix its Monument Avenue, a street lined with statues
of Confederate leaders by adding
African-American tennis legend, Arthur Ashe to it. And you can't just
give Confederates a black friend and say, "We're good, right?" -(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
-We're good! Arthur's up there! You love Arthur! So-- so, if we really want
to learn from, and honor our history,
perhaps the first step might be to put
most of these statues somewhere more appropriate, surrounded by
ample historical context, like in a museum. Where people go to
proactively learn about history, and also
to punish their children. -(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
-And please, try not to think of this
as a loss, because it's actually
a real opportunity, and I'll show you, please. Come with me. -♪ (PATRIOTIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
-Because if and when a pleat becomes empty, that is a chance for your area
to honor someone who really deserves it. A-- And I have some--
some ideas for replacements that I would love
to run by you. First, Beaufort County,
South Carolina, how about
a giant statue of... Robert Smalls here? He was born into slavery. He stole a Confederate boat,
and he sailed it to freedom, and later served five terms
in Congress. This guy is amazing. Atlanta, Texas. You are the birthplace to... Bessie Coleman. The first
African-American woman pilot. -(AUDIENCE CHEERING)
-Why would you not want this
in your town? She's incredible! Now, Florida. You might not want
an individual, but how 'bout something
that honors what your state represents? Something that says, "You've got
a little rebel in you." So, I give you this statue of your
official state reptile... -(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
-an alligator giving everyone the finger. He's called Herman, and he definitely says Florida, while also having
nothing to do with slavery. And finally,
finally, there is Charleston, and to you, I say this. Why have a divisive,
Confederate statue when instead, that pedestal can be filled
by your favorite son, -(AUDIENCE CHEERING)
-the actual Stephen Colbert, who will stand up there
all day telling you fun facts
about your wonderful town. -JOHN OLIVER: Right?
-Yes. -OLIVER: Really?
-Yes. Charleston. Charleston. Charleston is the site
of the first free public library -in America.
-That's fascinating, Stephen. Every year,
we host Zugunruhefest, the Southeast's
most comprehensive migration-focused
birding festival. That sounds incredible,
I'll google it! See Charleston? You can have this
24 hours a day, seven days a week. I-- I actually need
to do my show five days a week. Five! How? (AUDIENCE CHUCKLING) (WHISPERS) I don't know.
I don't know. Ooh! We're also<i>
Travel and Leisure's</i> number one U.S. destination
for the last five years running. -(AUDIENCE CHEERING)
-Come on Charleston, you can
have this in your life! That's our show,
thank you so much for watching. See you next week. Goodnight!
Orlando took down some confederate statues and moved them to the confederate soldier section of the historical city graveyard. That sounded like a pretty good compromise to remove it from a centerpiece to a place with better context. Wonder if that’s an option elsewhere?
That Dolly Parton "extravaganza" seems like something a British satirist would come up with to savage the way Americans are seen outside of America.
https://youtu.be/pcy7qV-BGF4 Head of department of history for West Point military academy on the civil war and slavery.
That Forrest statue gets me everytime. It's the Botched-Restoration-Fresco-of-Jesus of statues.
Holy shit, that Larry David part was like an actual scene out of Curb.
"My family fought to save their farm!"
"Who was working that farm?"
Damn.
I was honestly shocked to learn that most of the monuments went up decades AFTER the war. These aren't historical, they're just symbols of spite and "sore-losers."
"Statues aren't how we remember history. Books are. Museums are....Statues are how we GLORIFY people."
Holy fucking shit, right on the money.
the Holy shit That Is Not Remotely The Point magazine