Busted 'Super-Dryer' responds!

Morris theme ultra-fast dryer that's going to use vacuum to reduce the amount of energy it takes to evaporate water because just like in outer space the water inside Mars evaporates at a lower temperature thus requiring less heat and energy to vaporize oh wait I gonna bust it first of all wrote a reply to me and then they actually made a response video and included in it a link to a private video of the device working which was great because I was really curious to see what this device actually sounded like you know because for some strange reason I'm sure it's a total coincidence all the other videos that they have somehow managed to have no sound on her that's odd what's wrong with the Sun on this video no this is the unedited video I think's fully they got me trying to conceal the fact that their device sounds like a hairdryer [Music] but we'll come back to that later now let's just remind ourselves of the key promises of this device that it's going to run under vacuum and not just regular vacuum space vacuum vacuum technology no not that vacuum space vacuum and it's gonna use infrared light combined with its infrared heating system it can dry your clothes in as little as 15 minutes or as it says in a Kickstarter it's going to use UV and I have technology whatever that is so hey you are okay a closed trial within 15 minutes using UV and if' technology and it's on all of them UV and if' technology UV and i have technology UV and I have technology and it's going to be ventless which means that it's going to actually condense the water and not just vent it into the room and you know the more I think about this the more we kind of stink of someone selling a hairdryer and a rotating drum for a few hundred bucks but let's go through their written reply first then we'll come back to their video response the first thing that just stinks is the first line the concept of vacuum drying is not a scam well yes but the concept of getting a cell filling water bottle isn't a scam either because dehumidifiers work and they're used in industry [Music] I wonder how that worked out for them oh yeah that's right they went fast and look they too had a nice video showing how their kit worked so it can't be a scam because dehumidifiers actually work right yeah the vacuum tries do exist but there's a good reason why this sort of thing isn't used dry clothes I mean you get your first flavor why this sort of thing isn't used to dry clothes if you just type vacuum dryer into Google and look for images and the one thing you'll notice is these vacuum dries look pretty heavy-duty so this beasty here is my vacuum oven or as it says a vacuum dryer and the one thing you'll notice just look at the thickness of the door these things as is the rest of it and the reason it's bollocks and of course is these things have to be able to hold that a vacuum which actually is about 10 tons per square metre when you're under a full vacuum now I'm down here I've got a rotary pumps as you fed the East and rotary pump and go down to L fraction of a million but pumping out a big chamber like this he's a tough job so I spark up my pump leave the bones posed hold on okay now he's pulling now excellent development so to get to millibar 20 millibars plate the freshwater that's all the way over on this side the highest mountain to America they would be about here somewhere Thanks fifteen fourteen thousand feet backs of a thing Mount Everest plate atmospheric pressure on Mount Everest is over here somewhere so as you can see it takes quite the time to pop these that move down on and what you'll see is as you get further over he gets slower and slower and slower nice queues for the rotary pump like this it's a little there's a bit sighs Cristina seriously so it can only pull out a fraction of the water with each cycle of the pump it's a 1% so obviously here is taking out one percent of the whole atmosphere here it's only taking out one percent of what's left so I get slower and slower and slower and you wouldn't be able to use a decent-sized rotary pump like this on the Morris for two reasons first of all it's an oil-based pump so what happens if you use this with someone that water is eventually from the oil and it ceases to be an effective pump so we're now up to about the atmospheric pressure now though they claim they're gonna actually have a lousy vacuum in this dry about a tenth of an atmosphere which means it won't have a force of 10 tons per square meter on the outside but about 9 tons per square meter which is why vacuum ovens like this a built like tanks and not flimsy little plastic boxes the vacuum vessel that they're probably looking at isn't it's probably about half the size of this thing in total so you can see that it's getting pretty small and they actually have some numbers for the size of their drum which is about 29 centimeters by 26 centimeters it will take one foot by one foot now it turns out I've actually got a vacuum desiccator about that size yeah so what you're in is a vacuum desiccator with a vacuum gauge on the top this one's polycarbonate polycarbonate good and bad for vacuumed educators it's good in that when it fails isn't throw a big transfer glass around though she caught a little bit energy in our vacuum test big dip vacuum desiccator like this the downside of course is if you're drawing something which is solvents in the songs can get into the plastic and rot the plastic and this thing is this thing pretty flimsy anyway it'll it'll hold a vacuum but I wouldn't trust it with taking much more in the way of mechanical stress after that anyway dimensions what you find is this guy is fairly comparable he's about 25 centimeters across and 25-ish centimeters tall which means the barrel on that thing is not far off the size this Morris Dreyer thing which means that this is just a single shirt going in - what is this essentially the barrel size of this dryer it's a single shirt now it's a vacuum desiccator now I could hook this up to a chunky pump rotary pump but like we're saying rotary pumps you can't really use because they have oil in them and that's just gonna fill up with water after a while and it'll stop being an effective pump diaphragm pump you get a little diaphragm pump like this for about 10 bucks they don't pull great vacuum but the cheap saying 10 ish bucks so the first thing I'm going to do is make sure that we're sealed up on the top the vacuum pump is actually done in to the back here we're gonna make sure the backs open and yes I'm gonna push this down right so we start up with a vacuum good I should once they're there seal the vacuum of holding shower just to give us some idea of how long that's going to take we're gonna get a stopwatch get in here as you can see we're up to about a tenth of an atmosphere down already so it does work and it's just clearly going to take a lot more than 15 minutes to get down to the required back actually now we're up to about a temper tend of an atmosphere given enough time we've given about a half an hour I reckon that we'll get this this boy down here to about ten third atmosphere which is all the way over the other side because remember what happens is you come you've got a pump more more air and well more of the the gas on the inside of here to actually get the pressure down a little more that's the the exponential thing on the pumping this isn't the only thing they've got to have under vacuum they actually have to have a casing all around this that needs to be under vacuum too because feedthroughs on vacuum chambers with moving parts are a colossal pain in the ass because not only do you need the low friction that you get from a bearing it also needs to be an airtight seal and that actually pretty technically challenging thing to do so pretty much the only sensible way to do this is to have as a big metal box we this tumble dry a thing on the inside but I'll come back to that later the practical upshot is basically almost the entire of this structure hashed I have has to be able to survive a pressure of about ten tons per square meter or zero uses vacuum technology no not that vacuum space vacuum believe that so what else about this product just feels wrong well if you look at all of their video footage the one thing you'll notice is there's almost no indication of what this device sounds like you can look at their video from these CES where they launched it and you'll notice it's got a music track no sound if you take a look at their video that they released a bit working again a music track no sound in fact the only thing that they've got suggests that it makes almost no sound at all you can barely hear it above the narration safely doing laundry in the comfort of your own home and then you take a look at their technical diagrams and the teardown that they have this thing and you'll notice that it contains nothing to condense water nothing that would pass as a vacuum container and hell for that matter nothing that would pass as a vacuum pump and bear in mind that ventless dryest like this are basically giant heat exchangers you need something like this in their dryer exchanger looks like a metal with lots of radiator fins on it where is it basically 9/10 of the items that you would need to make the claimed product I'm missing here then you take a look back at their rebuttal letter Morris zero does not maintain a nearly complete vacuum a tenth of an atmosphere through the drying process it can only use heat conduction and heat radiation to heat clothes under full vacuum these may help dry flour medicines well but are not efficient for insulating materials such as clothes yeah I mean did the ambiguity this whole thing has the feel of someone who just read the wiki article on vacuum drying but there's no real experience of dealing with vacuums or evaporation or condensation of liquids under vacuum look if I get atmospheric pressure that's a thousand millibars and add some water a few drops of water to it the water constitutes about 20 millibars only got a thousand millibars of atmospheric pressure so about two percent of the atmosphere there is water vapor now if I remove ninety percent of the air and add some water to that as I explained in my last video the vapor pressure does not depend on the atmospheric pressure because from the perspective of the surface of the water it's essentially a total vacuum whether there's an atmosphere there or not the practical upshot is the vapor pressure of water is going to be 20 millibars and then you're gonna have a hundred millibars of air on top of it four-fifths of the atmosphere in this dryer is still going to be air which you can pump around and use for heat exchange and really again moreish zero does not maintain a nearly complete vacuum that's not a nearly complete vacuum through the drying process this just makes no sense normally what you would do in a system like this is your pump down the system you pump out all of the air and then you seal the system and then you run the whole drying process under reduced pressure without ever having to run the vacuum pump again and like I did here with my little tube once it's pumped out and there's a perfect vacuum on the inside I don't have to pump anymore and if I condense water on one side then water goes from one side to the other at the speed of sound but of course you're still gonna put all the energy in to the to evaporate the water the thermodynamics doesn't change which is why the water freezes in about 20 seconds but in principle you could just keep pumping on the vacuum chamber but bear in mind that the cubic meter of air contains about 20 grams of water now they reckon the Morris is going to pull off 200 grams in a go okay cool so 200 grams would be about 10 cubic meters of vacuum with saturated water pressure on it and a decent rotary pump like this who pulls about four cubic feet per minute four cubic feet is about a tenth of a cubic meter so to run this for one minute we'll get to about a tenth of a cubic meter to run it for ten minutes will get you about one cubic meter and to run it for a hundred minutes will get you about ten cubic meters you have to run a pump like this for about two hours just to suck all the water out using a vacuum pump and even you would just be pumping that water vapor into the rub meaning that it wouldn't be a ventless dryer so the only way they would be sensible to do this is vac down your dryer seal it run the whole thing under reduced pressure then it is a ventless dryer and the only way air can get into the system is if you open a valve but I so went over in the original busted video none of that changes the thermodynamics you still have to put the energy in to evaporate the water so in most of the drying process we use a large flow pump to maintain a relatively low pressure while still having a hot air flow which is why Marsh Erica needs a little trouble what you're good to use hot air now I thought it was going to use infrared light to them to do the heating combined with its infrared heating system it can dry your clothes in as little as 15 minutes what do you mean having a relatively large air flow of hot air to keep the clothes you mean like in a regular tumble dryer you look at the teardown no apparent vacuum pumps no apparent vacuum vessel hell it was only when I got down to thinking about this that he suddenly came to me that what the hell's the deal with that water trap how are you gonna get the water out of a vacuum chamber will be down actually having a hole in the vacuum chamber and a little hole in the vacuum chamber and your vacuum is gone I mean that's it let me just show you with my vacuum oven if I just open the bleeder valve Abed so if I can kill pump what you'll see is a seal system now so unless there's a leak it should be good basically in perpetuity like this and what I want to show you is a vibrant bleed valve just to give you an idea for how even a small hole on a fairly big vacuum system basically absolutely prevents you from Holly a decent vacuum so [Music] [Music] okay and that's the best backing that I can pull with the bleed of our wire and let's just briefly remind ourselves of how long it took a fairly decent pump to pull down a vacuum vessel this size not to a tenth of an atmosphere which is the pressure that they claim moreish runs under but to a third of an atmosphere which is more like the pressure that you get on Mount Everest and this is maybe an interesting time to reflect on why I have this giant vacuum chamber in the first place you may remember some time ago NASA wanted to send this helicopter to Mars and initially I was super skeptical about it until I went through the calculations and finally concluded that actually no this was possible very difficult very likely to fail but it was possible and I got this vacuum oven to do the vacuum thrust tests with a small helicopter and various degrees of vacuum sadly it arrived too late but it's a times like this that I'd really like to thank those who support this channel through patreon as they really do make buying pieces a kit like this possible and now it's being used to benchmark this vacuum dryer so there we are about one minute in and we're down to the sort of atmospheric pressure that you get on the big mountains in America and the other thing that finds when these things have been under felonies in vacuum even a very small vacuum will hold the door shut that's why French doors when you close them is the cold vacuum that it's a small reduction the pressure that holds them shut but also these boys the seals tend to stick a bit once they've been on the vacuum so anyway that's hey you know it's not a giant vacuum oven you know this is probably only comparable to a regular-sized dryer maybe not even that so if the water is actually gonna be condensing on the inside of this low-pressure chamber how is he actually going to get in to the trap at the bottom that I mean anyway you know sensibly to be done if the whole thing is under vacuum but that would mean that you would need vacuum seals on the water bath as well and you just remove it dump the water no seals whatsoever on the water trap now none of these makes any sense so what do we got so far a vacuum dryer that uses vacuum to help clothes dry faster that doesn't actually maintain vacuum for the whole time which uses infrared light sorry did I say infrared light nope it uses air from the surrounding environment oh so it was that you were saying that it was ventless actually now you can't be ventless if you're sucking air in from the environment as they explicitly say the energy of evaporation is not only supplemented by the heating module but from air from the surrounding environment that flow is through also adds a lot of energy to the clothes and it's going to use high flow pumps and heaters yeah congratulations you've invented a tumble dryer honestly if I look at the teardown of this thing let me just tell you what I see I see a vintage dryer that essentially consists of a hairdryer you know the high flow pump a rotating drum but hey it copy that that would be hella noisy your hopefully pumps are notoriously noisy and look you can barely hear this uh Morris over the voice of the narrator safely doing laundry in the comfort of your own home can you hear safely doing laundry in the comfort of your own home sorry what's that in the comment section it says that it runs at about 60 dB that's about the noise of a normal human conversation so let's move a hair dryer sufficiently far away that it's about the same volume as a human conversation now you might be thinking that I'm crazy in that I've forgotten why lapel mic no the reason I've done all this is he a reasonable idea of what these things sound like so for instance this is a standard hair dryer a few feet away look he uses a thousand watts almost exactly like Morris this is about what Morris would sound like at this sort of distance but it in there Morris promo video it's working and you can barely hear it a comfort of your own home that doesn't seem very honest maybe we should update their video safely doing laundry in the comfort of your own home thankfully the more Xero uses vacuum technology no not that vacuum actually no I'm pretty sure it's exactly that kind of vacuum you know this kind of vacuum what you mean like this so it moves to the trend process we use a large flow pump relatively low pressure now in response to my video they did actually upload some footage of their dryer working where it pulls off about half a kilo of water per hour this is a regular try which will do about three times that amount but their sound is curiously muted on this video well thankfully they've got some talking and some other sound events on this audio track so let's see if we can actually edit those shots that they sound a little more realistic [Music] [Music] and one last time let's hear it in their promo video safely doing laundry in the comfort of your own home and for those who missed it this is actually them loading up their dryer with three shirts which will look like so it makes it very difficult to see just how stuffed full these dryer ears with merely three shirts yeah they don't quite have what they have in their promo video which is a few small little items about the sizes of handkerchiefs or tea towels well I gotta be fair at least in the reply video that they did they acknowledge that they can't beat the laws of thermodynamics via some clever design which is what funders claim they would do and they did actually find a mistake in my video no significant no not really but still a mistake right so this was the mistake all the numbers I had were for drying wet clothes per kilo of wet clothes not put kilo of water and one is basically three times the size of the other the practical upshot when I do my independent calculations there are a factor of three out so that number there is wrong these numbers here are right which means that this morris is actually more efficient than regular tries but less efficient than heat pump dryers is it dishonest Collette Green and the day it takes 40 percent less energy than other dryers yeah kinda it's kind of like claiming that my gas guzzling pickup truck is eco-friendly because it has better gas mileage than a Humvee so other than that their main point is that they claim that they're gonna use reduced pressure to actually make the water evaporate quicker and I'm not so sure I'd buy any of that we create a low-pressure environment using a large flow pump and the difference between the inlet and outlet you see this is the thing a large flow pump he's basically a hair dryer or a vacuum cleaner or something like that and those things really struggle to get down to three quarters of an atmosphere our suction gauge measures inches of water lift if a vacuum has a water lift of over 80 that is a powerful vacuum so you got that as we're strong vacuum is a hundred inches of water left and if you wanted to get a total vacuum you would get about 400 inches of water left so your best high volume vacuum pumps are only going to get down to about 3/4 of an atmosphere that's about the atmospheric pressure on reasonable size mountains in America it's a bit of a stretch to call at a vacuum the more 0 uses vacuum technology no not that vacuum space vacuum and even harder to see how you're gonna get down to a tenth of an atmosphere with such a pump [Music] and believe it or not this thing is now raised over half a million dollars Oh makes you want to go and clean the lab for gleaming the lab I use a dyson animal because while these things are hella expensive of all it's not value purchases I've made this one was kind of worth it is these things are very powerful and very well designed so Amazon affiliate links below if you into that sort of thing and hit the like button if y'all liked what you saw subscribe and hit the notification bell if you don't want to miss out on new uploads and there's always the voice of thunder channel if you want to see more of what's new like what's happening on the surface of the Sun today and this ever if you really like this channel and want to support it directly you can do it through patreon and thanks for watching [Music]

Channel: Thunderf00t

Views: 823,593

Rating: 4.8892913 out of 5

Keywords: Morus, busted, Ir, thermometer, evaporation, water, dryer, tumble, clothes, kickstarter, indiegogo, viral, new, science, steam, drier, physics, chemistry, engineering

Id: SXR6y2ST77s

Length: 30min 16sec (1816 seconds)

Published: Tue May 28 2019

Reddit Comments

[u/Reid89]

Even if it worked why would you want such a small drier?

[u/ab00]

tl;dw?

No interest in watching a thunderf00t video. Can we not ban them from the sub?

Hopefully eevblog / electrboom / bligclive or someone who isn't a monumental twat releasing videos full of inaccuracies will do one.

[u/csgobobster]

This is too political