Body Language Analyst REACTS to Steven Avery's Earliest Interrogation From Making a Murderer | Ep 38

well hey there idiots welcome back to observe in today's video we're going to be looking at a case that was made famous across the globe thanks to the release of the netflix documentary making a murderer it's the stephen avery case [Music] as is the case with all true crime content here on the channel there are two possibilities that can happen one it can be demonetized or it can be blocked due to the fact that it is close to infringing on youtube's community guidelines and policy so i'm going to do my very best to maintain an ad friendly air throughout the entire video however if you are wanting to be able to make sure that i can continue to make true crime content possible for you there are a couple things that you can do right now to help make that happen first you can be a patron of the channel by following the link in the description below there are various tiers you have access to various hd backgrounds live streams and other patreon exclusive content including the ability to instant message with me i try to make a habit out of responding to any and all questions on my patreon to the best of my ability however if you would like to be able to help support the channel without spending any money consider following the audible link below and i'll explain to you how this means that you can get stuff for free and still support me so if you follow that link and you sign up for a free trial you'll have to enter in your credit card number but if you sign up for that free trial it donates automatically to the channel which is fantastic and you get one free credit and that free credit you can spend on any audio book or podcast available on audible you can download it and it's yours forever and if you cancel your trial before it starts charging you it costs you nothing aka you get a free book you donate to me and you don't have to pay a single cent and the book that i would suggest you check out would be the dictionary of body language by joe navarro he is an ex-fbi agent who has made a name for himself in the nonverbal realm by making quality books and consumable content for people who are interested in reading and learning about how to read nonverbal communication so if you'd like to be able to do that go ahead and check out the links below now moving on into the actual story stephen avery was born in 1962 19 years later he had his first run-in with the law where he burglarized a bar and was sentenced to two years in jail however he was able to be released after just 10 months less than a year later he was again convicted after dousing his house cat in oil and lighting it on fire in front of his friends he served time for that for a year and right after getting out he immediately was convicted again as he drove his cousin's car off the road with his own got out of his car and angrily threatened her with a gun he received a six-year sentence for that however before that very year was up a tragic crime occurred where a woman was attacked in a park and was assaulted by an unknown man now this is where things start to get a little bit messy and i have to be extremely open and honest with you right away one i have a lot of disgust for the local law enforcement during this case two i have a lot of disgust for the avery family during this case there's a lot of terrible things happening during this case and i had a lot of frustration while weighing through all of the evidence and the possibilities of how that evidence got to where it was at regardless i just wanted to be completely open and honest this is a bias that i have and i'm going to be consciously and actively attempting to counteract that bias throughout the entirety of the video in order to maintain as unprejudiced a view as i possibly can let's get back on to the avery story though the police force immediately suspected avery just due to his proclivity of violence and lack of self-control they suspected that he was the one who was guilty of the crime they had just been informed of from the very beginning they walked into it with bias that was the first red flag they walked into it assuming it was avery also they primed the victim into saying that it was avery by mentioning this sounds like avery while in front of the victim this is also a terrible idea you don't prime them towards somebody but they did so they primed this victim towards avery and then they brought in a lineup of people and she selected avery out of that lineup now there are so many suspicions centered around all of this case and it's just a massive pile of misconduct by local law enforcement there was a possibly faulty character sketch and then they also had failed to arrest or bring in a person who was in the area semi-matching the description that the victim had given who was known for sexual crimes needless to say avery was found guilty in a crooked system where he served 17 years in 2002 there was advancement in dna research and testing that showed that avery was indeed innocent and this other person that they knew about but had not brought in because they didn't like avery was actually guilty basically avery had served 17 years in a cell for something that he did not do when he got out when he was released he said that he was fine he was not angry he was not upset the past is the past and he was just happy to be free that being said obviously he wasn't that happy because shortly thereafter he sued manitowoc county wisconsin where he was located the sheriff that was in charge at the time and the district attorney who was also running at the time for 36 million dollars for his false imprisonment the time he lost and the money lost during that time it was also revealed that insurance was not going to cover the cost of the suit which meant that the sheriff the district attorney and manitowoc county were possibly going to have to pay from their pockets the large sum of 36 million dollars now for an already crooked law enforcement that does not seem like good news and sure enough a bill is passed in 2005 called the avery bill which was designed to help prevent this sort of instance coming up again and right shortly thereafter on october 31st teresa halbach who was a freelance photographer working for the auto trader magazine was going to the avery salvage yard to be able to snap some photos for stephen for the magazine she arrives at 2 30 in the afternoon on october 31st and is never heard from or seen again a few days later on november 3rd her mother reports her missing and an investigation launches directed at stephen avery in that that was the last place that theresa was seen now i'm going to put a pause on this real quick because i want to be able to speak my mind this is a very tragic incident and my heart goes out to the halbach family and friends and relatives while this video is centered around the possible innocence or guilt of stephen avery a life was tragically lost during this time so my heart goes out to her family and friends and relatives and you have my deepest condolences i know that justice doesn't mean that it makes it easier but i also know that it can bring a sense of fairness and closure and that is the point of today's video now that being said back into the story of things people are highly suspicious understandably so of the law enforcement in the area did they handle this investigation correctly and there are two main parties for stephen avery's case the first one is that he is absolutely guilty and that he is exactly where he needs to be and the other one said that the police framed avery in order to possibly get out of a potentially massive lawsuit now there are some details that i am not going to include in the story about the incident itself due to the graphic nature of the content if you would like to be able to know more about it i have linked a short article below so that you can read up on it or you can go and watch making a murderer that being said i do not like the making a murderer documentary because it is immediately and obviously weighted towards one side of an argument rather than both and having worked in the media for some time i understand the drive the need to make things sensational and so i have no respect for the media in this situation because of its bias and weighted approach to this case that being said from the night of november 3rd 2005 a two-week investigation begins to ensue towards the avery salvage yard where they find the rav4 of theresa the key inside avery's house and also human remains in a fire pit that steven avery himself was seen stoking now this case seems to be a slam dunk case on many facets there's dna evidence he's the last one to have talked to her all of the remains are found on his lot but there are many many instances of malpractice from the law enforcement as well needless to say as i continue to dig deeper and deeper into the evidence of this case i found more and more instances of malpractice and bias seeping in into a case where there should be none of that and that is from the law enforcement and from the media and from those who are studying it it is all riddled with bad practices as i said i found a lot of disgust for this case so today i'm going to be analyzing two different pieces of footage one is from an interrogation that happened sometime after the incident itself of stephen avery to hopefully establish a baseline for those of you who do not know what a nonverbal baseline is it's a person's nonverbal communication at rest or as they would normally act in a situation this is used to be able to establish positive and negative spikes in their baseline to hopefully unearth possible deception or at very least the psychological processing behind the nonverbal tells being displayed so there's a segment of that and then there's going to be interview footage from the night of the incident itself where i would find the most accurate nonverbal read on steven avery possible now if this was a perfect world i would have been able to sit down and speak with avery and question him specifically in order to invoke certain behavioral and nonverbal patterns from him throughout the interrogation but i do not have that option i am simply going to work with what i have here but that means that it is less accurate than if it were in real life for those of you who don't know nonverbal communication is at best 70 to 80 accurate there is always a possibility of a misinterpretation and as more and more obstacles come between a numberable analyst and the person being interrogated the less and less accurate it is going to become so where i could possibly be able to push avery in person to give a 90 to 100 accuracy it will be next to impossible to do that here that being said this is enough backstory and enough disclaimers let's begin the actual analysis i'm not sure shouldn't be much longer though shouldn't be much longer by the end of the day it will be ready i want to point out a few things right off here first we'll start with the non-verbals of stephen you can see that he's leaned back he's relaxed and he has open body language also he's intentionally doing a nod throughout this as he's listening to the interrogator speak this is actually something that i noticed in stephen's non-verbal repertoire throughout all of my studies during this case is that he does this intentional nod often after statements and while listening to people and if this is intentional this is a manipulation tactic it's easier to get people to go along with you if you are nodding in this specific culture this is american culture where a nod is an affirmative movement so with this sort of intentional movement this could be something that he learned over time to help manipulate people to see eye to eye with him regardless it is something that sticks out to me as part of his nonverbal baseline he does this regularly so if i see this pop up it's something that i'm keeping note of but i also know that it's in his baseline if i see something that strays from that that is a red flag for me also let's talk a little bit about the fact that it's one horrible video quality because law enforcement refuses to update their stuff into this century and then two it's also horrible audio quality and once again it's because law enforcement refuses to update their equipment into this century i don't know why you can't just invest in a little bit higher quality cam regardless these are nitpicky things if you can't hear trust me you're not alone i'm not going to add subtitles to this because that takes actual ages and i don't have enough time but hopefully the auto-generated titles are able to help clear it up some if not try to wear some headphones and plug along with the important thing in this is going to be his body language anyway so the words aren't as crucial that's enough talking let's keep pretty watching i'm sorry like we talked about the miranda remember that again so you just don't want to talk with us yes just atrocious audio quality but speaking again on avery's nonverbal communication you could see that the interrogator is moving around regularly sitting forward some gesturing some leaning against the wall he's moving consistently and avery has not moved at all now there are some theories behind this sort of display of nonverbal communication it can be an indicator of somebody who has no empathy it could be an indicator of a psychopathic behavior but this is not a diagnosis on avery's mental state if you would like something along those lines go check out dr grande's video he has a solid representation of avery's mental state but without seeing nonverbal mirroring this means that at least at very least stephen avery is on a different psychological page than the interrogator which i would understand if i were in avery's position and i had been wrongfully accused of a crime from this same law enforcement before i would be less likely to be interested to be working with them later on or being interrogated by them later on also i forgot to note in the case with stephen and teresa the same people that were involved in his wrongfully accused case before are also in charge of this case that's a horrible conflict of interest which i find disgusting and they should never have allowed that to happen which is part of my disgust for the law enforcement on this side but this isn't nonverbal we're going to get back to that all right so what are we talking about before um i cannot hear what's going on here i couldn't understand it on the initial footage i tried to make this more audibly understandable and it's still just going horribly let's talk a little bit about steven avery's body language though whenever the second person comes into the room stephen shifts his chair to be able to adjust to both people in the room this means that he's conscious at least of where he is non-verbally he has also been doing some mouth-touching gestures which could be a sign of self-soothing it often is in stressful situations a sign of a self-soothing gesture which i understand in this case as well and you'll see this this open hand knot that's the conscious movement that is in steven avery's baseline and it's a little odd it doesn't seem to match up all the time and that's why i feel that it's an intentionally done thing that avery is doing to try to help manipulate people to being on his side i'm open and i'm nodding it seems forced and it seems intentional and it likely is in his repertoire so there was a 22 in the house yeah okay and who's was that brother johnson rolling johnson where was that cat hanging up in your bedroom for a year two years three years [Music] so right now they're asking baseline questions they're establishing a baseline not non-verbally but they are establishing a baseline by asking generic non-implicating questions and this is helping me see how he processes he's not displaying a lot of nerves during this situation which means that he's in control of his nonverbal communication as he is in his baseline so if i see something from this more stationary sedentary baseline if i see spikes both positive and negative then that will allow me to know that there is something going on with this psychological processing negative are going to be less likely due to how still his baseline normally is but if there are spikes they will show up on the positive side let's keep watching to find out if that happens yeah okay who are you living with there now for yourself but what's your girlfriend okay prior to that was she living with you yeah okay all right i got it a little over a year or a year and the 22 is so in case you're having trouble hearing they're talking about his relationship with his girlfriend how long they've lived together and you can see still this nodding very intentional broad nodding from stephen and this is just part of his baseline along with the occasional palm flash that you'll see of open body language like i said these seem to be intentional nonverbal displays from stephen have you ever shooting at just target practicing or anything no no okay i would want any other shooting or anything like that because i talked to her old and he said you now you'll notice that as he's saying yes and no his head is reflecting his words it's a yes and it's a no and this is good to note early on in this baseline establishing period because if we see that desynchronized later there's the possibility that that is extra psychological processing and it could be a sign of deceit so noticing it here noticing that that is regularly synchronized for him is important to be able to know before diving into the rest of the actual interview that happened the night of the incident okay so what kind of gun was that you see him do an uncertain scratch of the head here this can be all sorts of things but it could also just be a scratch of the head you have to keep this in mind is that a person will still do bodily movements that don't necessarily reflect an emotive state but it is still something that you should keep note of because it could be a reflection of an emotive state and you're just not sure early on so i've made note of that as well it doesn't seem like it was as warm as it is man that was friday then yeah okay what time of day was that friday so when stephen recalls when he's recollecting something you can see that he looks down and off to the side lightly that's where he has looked now repeatedly throughout this little blip of establishing the baseline that we're working with to be able to recall certain details so whenever we see later footage of him we would expect to see him look down and off to the side for recollection of genuine details if we see that differently then that could be an indicator of deceit we just have to keep note of it where were you doing that like by the house or down in the junkyard or wherever you take it don't put a crush over your shoes so once again he's asked about a detail and he looks down to the same direction as he has the other time this means that this is a reliable tell of genuine recollection from stephen it's important for us to be able to note in his baseline because then that means later on if he doesn't do this tell of recollection there's the possibility and even the likelihood that it's not genuine recollection but instead him trying to fabricate an answer so explain i'm not sure i told me down in that we could see him using illustrators with his hands as well this means that in his baseline if this is a reliable segment which it's not totally reliable just to be very clear this is not a totally reliable system for establishing a baseline because i'm not in control of establishing the baseline i'm having to go off of somebody else's work so it's never going to be as accurate as i would like it to be but if this is accurate which i think it's going to be as accurate as we can get right now he also uses illustrators with his hands so if we see that being stowed away later on that could be an indicator of a negative spike and so the road goes like this yeah and where the crush covers it here's the truck's face there's a crusher there too yeah okay so you were shooting from where at the crushed cars uh found some place in here so you can see in here that the interrogator has started semi-mirroring steven's body language steven hasn't really changed his general pose this entire interrogation that we've seen so far but the interrogator is now mirroring steven now this could either be unconsciously done from the interrogator just trying to be on the same page as a person that will happen in a person's subconscious mind is as they want to be on the same page of another person their body will begin to mirror them alternatively it could be a consciously done thing as well to where the interrogator is now mirroring stevens so that they can feel subconsciously that they are on the same page both of those work in this instance but it is important to note that stephen has not changed his body language for it this does indicate that he is not psychologically on the same page as the interrogator there is a psychological distancing that is happening there ergo the lack of mirroring body language do you guys normally crush your own cars or some of these questions how can you decide to question this time yourself would you like to crush it oh okay so just there's a key in the thing or something yeah so you just he doesn't mind if you use it no okay uh i noticed the one time it was down there that there was a car in there in the crusher a blue car yeah who crushed that one you did when did you crush that one i did want to make note of that fidget that steven did there at the very end where he scratched out his super sternal notch this could be a pacifying gesture a self-soothing gesture the supersternal notch is an area that many people will touch if they are feeling under stress this will oftentimes show up more so in women than it will in men however it still is possible across the board that being said i don't feel that it was related from what i can barely hear of this conversation none of his nonverbal antics during this interrogation are a direct result of questioning from the interrogation but that just means that it's a reliable area for a baseline it's just general basic questions that don't have a lot of weight or stress behind them that helps me establish that this wraps up more or less the baseline segment we know that his baseline does not display a lot of positive activity it's pretty sedentary with some very intentional gestures especially the opening of the palms and the nodding and we also know that it is pretty synchronized where he says no he shakes no where he says yes he does yes and he also will occasionally use illustrators not all the time but occasionally so we would expect to see that sort of behavior throughout his interviews if he's being authentic or if he is not experiencing intense psychological stress so in this next interview the night of the incident which should be the most raw meaning that it should be the most accurate non-verbally if we see different displays than we saw here it is a red flag i will say this i have not watched this interview i wanted to be able to go into this segment of the read with as little bias as i possibly could i wanted to be able to do my research understand everything that i could establish a baseline and then look at this interview for the first time with you right now i have never seen this before

Channel: Observe

Views: 114,143

Rating: 4.8261266 out of 5

Keywords: Sherlock Holmes, Logan Portenier, Observe, Mentalist, Lie to Me, body language, nonverbal, psychology, React, Analysis, lying, detection, reading, behavior, making a murderer, stephen, steve, steven, avary, avery, avry

Id: OQse1aGLjCo

Length: 27min 47sec (1667 seconds)

Published: Fri Jan 15 2021