Asmongold Reacts to "It Gets Better After 100 HOURS..." | By Josh Strife Hayes

just playing 100 hours all you have to do for a game is you just have to play it for 100 hours and if you play the game for 100 hours then you'll like it okay that's all that's all you have to do if i had more time i would have written a shorter letter a famous phrase often attributed to blaise pascal woodrow wilson or oscar wilde whoever wrote it the meaning remains the same it takes skill to condense information into the smallest possible packet rambling is easy focusing is hard this can relate to video games and it also relates to videos i'll say that for sure whenever i make a video there's sometimes like yesterday whenever i recorded my video i i will go through and i am like extremely analytical with myself like i will watch my own videos and i'll be like there's like a four second like moment in the video that's bad i re-record the whole thing i say this is a garbage video i don't want to have this out there and i'll even go back to my old videos and i'll say this video sucks and i should not have done it this way and i'll watch my own streams and say i said too many odds i said too many ums i'm being boring here this part of the stream sucks and i am ex i am the biggest to myself okay any of you guys in chat that are complaining about something i do on stream are nothing next to the way that i treat myself rpg design especially thanks to the popularity of a phrase i absolutely loathe it gets good 100 hours in i've been making mmorpg related youtube content for years yeah variations of it gets good 100 hours in are commented on every single video it doesn't matter if i personally play for a five ten years pretty good someone telling me it gets good 100 hours in so let's discuss sounds like a good version of it gentlemen according to youtube captions i'm josh dryface certain video games especially mmorpgs are designed to be played for extremely long periods of time which means the vet i would disagree with the final fantasy example i think final fantasy is fine to play at the beginning but i do think that if a game has a very slow start that is a problem with the game i do not think this is a so like there's some people that think that oh well if you can't you know if your attention span isn't long enough to play the game through its unnecessarily long uh you know boring period then that's your fault as a player i think that is a it is a shortcoming of a game whenever the game itself is bad at the beginnings in those games often have hundreds if not thousands of hours of gameplay time so when a new player joins and says i've got a problem with this system i don't think this part of the game is as good as it can be i'm not having a really good time in the early game the veterans often respond just play longer it gets better and a lot of people have told me you need to play a game for about a hundred hours before you can properly critique it especially an mmorpg and i i think that's true to an extent but it's also the the fact that you don't want to play it for 100 hours before you critique it and you say that it's bad is a critique in itself the fact that it does not hook you immediately is bad but like for example like if somebody didn't get level 60 or level 50 in new world beta level 40 even right i'm not going to take a lot of what they're saying as seriously as i am going to take what i think seriously right because they just didn't play the game as much as i did however their experience is still relevant because there's a reason why they didn't play it all the way to level 40. that and that matters take umbrage against this exact statement yeah because i think saying you need to play for 100 hours is used as an excuse for poor early game design true or vastly underestimates the amount of free time people actually have to play games so let's look at both of those things before we begin consider dropping a like on the video subbing to the channel for more mmo stuff or ringing the bell so you get all the future notifications as usual a massive thank you to all the supporters on patreon more on this at the end for now let's begin there are three main areas i want to cover to explain why the it gets good 100 hours in argument is a terrible position for a game to be in and actively makes your game worse first the amount of time the average gamer has available to game second the importance of the new player experience specifically the first two hours and finally the implication this has for your narrative focus or lack of for your game's writing let's start i i quit skyrim on the wagon ride i said this shit's taking too long i'm done listen i understand but like that's an opinion that certain people have that certain individuals have add andy yeah whatever you want to call it i'm not add andy i might actually i don't know if i'm making like people say like i have asperger's to say i'm autistic they say i have add adhd dyslexia all this that i've people have told me that i've had all throughout my years i don't care i know i'm not interested in labeling myself and saying oh this is what my problem is or this isn't what my problem is yeah i don't give a man with the average gamer now when i say average gamer who do you picture lifestyle do they have and most importantly how long do you think an average gamer plays games for four studies has been conducted over the pandemic a perfect time to study gamers when we're all staying inside gaming and the state of online gaming is interesting reported on by tech republic averages found out the average gamer plays games for eight hours and 27 minutes a week that's just a no it's got to count that that's got to be candy crush phone moms that that's got nah bro because like everybody that i know whenever we game man we go eight hours a day minimum eight hours a day minimum what do you mean for one hour and ten minutes a day the average gamer is also a mid-thirties professional male and has on average three children now when i want to say also mid 30s professional male big surprise that all these games have micro transactions because these dudes are making money if you're in your mid 30s you're probably like two or three positions into your career like you're making money and yeah you got three kids i mean yeah actually never mind maybe it doesn't matter if you're making money you're spending money too that picture the average gamer most people don't picture a 30-something year old dad of three with an hour a day to gain most people picture a younger person with four or more hours of gaming time every single night and this is one of the issues with the 100 hour argument need casual players to survive they bolster the player base and bring in massive amounts of revenue but the average casual player only has one hour to play if you tell them a game needs a 100 hour investment to get good chances are they will leave imagine if someone said to you you must play this video game every moment of your free time for the next third of a year and if you do that you might end up having fun 100 hours is much more than most people will have free in one two sometimes even three months so nobody's gonna sit around and play through the dog version of the game for months just to get to the fun part man there's no way that's gonna happen like why would anybody want to do that like for me like what's crazy is like whenever i started playing wow dude i was hooked immediately like i was by the time that i made it to westfall i thought i was about halfway to end game i was like man i'm you know i'm pretty close now i can give people advice i know what's going on in this game you know i got my lay of the land you know and like this is the same thing a realm reborn was not bad like dude you could complete a realm reborn if you went through everything you didn't read any of the questions you'd probably complete that like eight hours like i'm not even kidding you like you could go through that real fast because so much of it is quest text so much of it it's like just kill one mob quick this thing eight hours i bet you could probably speed run it pretty fast man saying that you need to play for 100 hours is unrealistic for the average player in fact the average is skipping every game two hours before deciding whether they want to carry on or quit when i was playing warframe there is an achievement play for two hours you know how many people have this achievement on steam four forty percent twenty percent i knew it yep there it is boys see i i i've got a mind to this kind of stuff you know what i mean less than half of the people that downloaded warframe survive for the first two hours you're losing 60 of your potential player base within the first two hours this is how important the new player experience is this is the vote this is the same thing that happens with like streams for example is that whenever a game comes out so this is the way that this is the way that streams go for like games like new release games most new release games that's the release is that people the anticipation of the game is oftentimes more exciting than the game itself it goes downhill after release it's the same thing with viewership and streams well experience someone needs to have and enjoy to keep playing with your game saying play for a hundred hours it gets good then is pointless no the majority of your player base is going to give up hardcore gamers or veteran players of certain mmos ones with hundreds or thousands of hours already invested in often forget how much of a time sink 100 hours really is for the average person see like that's the thing is like witcher 3 does this really well right it's like witcher 3 has a slow start but on like the second cinematic of witcher 3 it shows jennifer's ass like there's boom right there and that gets people because they're like wait a minute wait a minute i was gonna quit but now i'm interested i'll be right back all right here we go i find it extremely telling when players tell me to play their game for at least 100 hours to get to the good bit but when i ask them if they're willing to play my mmo for 100 hours to try it out suddenly it's too much of a time investment yeah you ever notice how the longtime enfranchised players will demand others forgive their games yeah i i agree with this i think that somebody should have to watch my stream for at least 100 hours before they decide that they want to watch another stream you know what i mean like they should have to watch it for at least a hundred hours so if you follow the stream before you leave you should watch at least watch it for a hundred hours before you decide whether you like the stream or not early design and insist it's worth pushing through but then they're not willing to push through the early design of others if you have time invested into a game and you insist others do the same but when you try to invest time into another game you realize you're not enjoying it early on and consider quitting within the first two hours that's how new people feel coming to your game game companies refuse to investigate update the new player experience because that's not the part that they think makes money the big spenders are the long time players the higher levels but those companies those are the super whales that you just get to harpoon them every day it's like the super whales like they could dude they take harpoons and it makes them stronger fail to see that you only find and keep new long-term players when people make it through your early game the first two hours of a game are essential never mind the suggestion of the first hundred most people won't find a hundred hours free in several months 100 hours is a crazy amount of free time for the average i find that every day you can watch the complete series of firefly in 15 hours you can watch all of breaking bad in 61 hours all of gamers owns in 63. on average wow finish the entire lord of the rings trilogy in 10 hours three hours the books not the films you can play the entirety of the witcher 3 and all extra content and missions including every gwent match in just over 100 hours so telling someone bro that's a speed run holy that's fast man invest as much time as the witcher would take into an mmo that might get good is a bit of a gamble in 1995 entertainers pen and teller released the parody video game desert bus in it you must drive a bus in real time from tuscan to las vegas it takes eight hours there and eight hours back and the bus lists to the right constantly so you have to actually pay attention you can't just click drive and wait it takes 16 hours to finish imagine someone saying to you finish desert bus six times and then it gets really good they might be telling the truth it might get really good but are you going to actually want to invest all of that time to get to the good bit or are you going to go and do something that's good right away yeah so the average gamer has just over an hour and ten minutes a day free to play and will give your game two hours before deciding whether they want to quit or carry on and you're saying the game needs at least 100 hours you've lost players far before you get to the 100 hour mark yeah but let's ask another question if the game does indeed get good after 100 hours why why do you need a hundred hours for the game to get good what is it doing after the 100 hour mark that it can't be doing you should stream the bus game when a player says a game gets good they mean it changes and there's only really three ways it can change to affect the enjoyment factor either it takes the systems it already has and refines them to such a degree that all the mechanical aspects suddenly make sense and are more enjoyable to use or it changes everything about the systems and the changes for the better or it sets up 100 hours worth of context and backstory and now things make sense and the story gets good all of these have their issues if your game takes 100 hours for the mechanics in it to become refined and enjoyable enough to be engaging and fun then why i think a great game that scales up very well is valheim i think valheim scales up incredibly well and it keeps people engaged throughout the entire time i think rust is another one there's plenty of other games like this too and this isn't like again this isn't like a uh instant gratification or whatever absolute willie valham's dead well so is dark souls one is dead too how many people are replaying dark souls one basically nobody and the reason for that is because it's a single-player game that has an end point uh that's just the way it goes it doesn't mean it's a bad game are you actively choosing to keep the opening 100 hours which you have admitted are sub-par why on earth would you actively force a new player to slog through the worst part of your game first before letting them get to the good part a game isn't a job and the majority of your player base will not want to treat your game as a second job it's not a trial you must pass it's a recreational hobby if you as a game designer have a 100 hour long game but only the final two hours are as good as you can make them and as fun as they can be then what you have is a two hour long game with 98 hours of intro crap trim the it's just like my stream and so yeah anyway i feel like one uh there's a i think kind of this is kind of what happened with like game of thrones where they went like zero to 60 at like you know season eight and then like another uh another show that did this was like carnival row if you guys watched that i feel like like the plot went from it went from like two miles an hour or five miles an hour to 60 miles an hour in like the last two and really the last one episode and i you know it i think that's a problem with pacing and like yeah you hit that big that that massive climax at the end absolutely but i do think that it would be better if it didn't happen all at the same time i think that there are many games that have those moments throughout the game that feel good like valheim is an example of this where you fight the deer very like really you fight the deer very very early on and you fight elder pretty early on as well and it's really between like uh bone mass and motor where things really take a long more time and i also want to say that uh some people are saying that valheim is not dead or valenheim is dead valheim will always have finite content that people will lose interest in very quickly until they actually develop real support for modders modding is how valheim will live forever excess off and place quality over quantity mmos know the early game can suck which is why they sell boosts and people get angry at people when they buy boosts but consider this let's redirect your anger toward the game design and not the players when new players have the ability to pay to boost through the content they often get angry but why why anger why annoyance is it because you feel the playing of the game is a right of passage a trial that you completed and therefore others must as well because if the early game was legitimately fun and enjoyable and great for you and someone boosts through it you should feel sorry for them they missed out on a great experience you have good memories of it and they don't what a shame if the early game is indeed terrible and they boosted and you get annoyed that you had to slog through it and they didn't that's really nice that means the game's admitting the game design is bad but see enduring it as some sort of badge of honor if the early game this is one of the worst things that gamers have convinced themselves into gamers have convinced themselves that being able to overcome bad game mechanics means that it's a good game and i think this is like a really good example of this is uh is dark souls 2. people are like oh well you know dark souls 2 is too hard for people and you know it's too complex et cetera not just it sucks that's all it it's it's like nobody wants they don't want to play that like it's just stupid uh like poe has things like that too uh i think many games do being able to overcome bad game mechanics does not make them good game mechanics it just makes them things that you can circumvent or things that you can overcome based off of a certain amount of trial and error play isn't good then you should be lobbying for it to be improved not forcing other new players to go through it so their suffering matches yours and your feelings if suffering through the early game crap is a rite of passage for your game's community don't be surprised when that community doesn't grow and new players quit the other potential of a game getting good after 100 hours is because the gameplay changes to a new style or what you're doing in the game switches dramatically this happens in terror when your class goes through the awakening and the gameplay of that class becomes vastly different all your training and muscle memory up to this point is now basically useless if your game does this why if you have a game design switch that many players will argue is objectively better then bring that forward so a new player gets a taste of it from the very start i'm not saying you need to thrust a new player into a chaotic overwhelming mess of a system from day one i'm saying if you have decided your advanced players get to experience something awesome then your new players should be working toward that from the start not experiencing an inferior system for the first hundred hours and finally the idea that hundreds of hours worth of setup is needed for a payoff such as context or characterization or world building skilled world building or emotional setups can be woven into the fabric of gameplay the audio or the visual mediums the voiceover lines or the gameplay itself if you need one i think that was a big criticism of the uh post realm reborn content is that it took so long to develop the plot that finally happened in like the final cut scenes is that people were just like oh my god like how long is this going to take what is this like it's just taking forever and like i personally as i said i didn't really give a about it because i'm just so used to playing uh you know things that take forever but i do want to say that i can understand that absolutely yeah too much filler and they actually even reduced the amount of worth of setup for a payoff it needs to be the greatest payoff in all of gaming because you are literally taking more time to set your story up than breaking bad takes to tell its entire story yeah that's ridiculous you need to trim down and as the quote at the start mentioned take more time to write a shorter letter so the next time you tell someone it gets good after a hundred hours please remember if you actually want to attract new players to your game or convince new people to play it this is a terrible thing to say you are not if you uh if if a game gets better in uh like over time right it's one thing right but if it gets better after 20 hours or 50 hours or 100 hours that's a problem with the game yeah it's just a problem with the game ping your own course because the average person has just over one hour a day to play and will not enjoy the idea of investing a hundred hours into something they might not even enjoy telling someone it takes a hundred hours to get good is basically saying to someone do you want to dedicate a third of your year to maybe enjoying this they will average invest two years sounds pretty bad and they will leave if it doesn't engage them if your game takes 100 hours to get good you are actively saying the first 100 hours is a subpar quality product compared to the rest so why on earth are you keeping it and why are you making it the first thing that potential new players to your franchise see you are putting your worst foot forward if your game changes after a hundred hours just put that fun at the front and start with it if you are not able to build an engaging involved narrative story or world within 100 hours sit down with your writing team and condense that down yeah new player your game gets good after 100 hours isn't a positive description of your game no you're telling a new player they will need to experience an actively inferior product they'll have to play through a pointless section in some cases if the game changes in the late game a completely irrelevant 100 hours because it won't matter what they do in those anyway if you i want to say that the comparisons of final fantasy are i think partially true but partially not true and the reason why i think that they are partially not true is that as you are telling a story that story will just simply take time in order to be told and i think that it only makes sense in final fantasy whenever you put it into context that your character you put it in context of character progression whereas if you just look at it from story building and you say the level doesn't matter you're just playing through the story well then i think that it's completely fine however i do think that the poster realm were born content because there's no character progression that's whenever things really do drag on for people absolutely 100 hours to set a narrative up you need to condense your story down when you say to someone it gets good after 100 hours yeah that's not a positive for your game design so if you want new players to experience your game and stick with it the next time you're telling someone it gets good 100 hours in just stop and ask yourself why why do you feel the need to tell this to them why do you need to experience 100 hours of low quality game before the good bit happens and if you're making a game remember i hope the people that are in the new world subreddit watch this because this is exactly the kind of arguments that they use to discredit journalists that play their game and they're like well they they don't understand it they don't get it they have no idea right like that's what it is you've got two hours to grab and hold someone's attention and then remain consistently high quality if eventually you realize your early game is weak compared to your late game because you as a developer have improved and your quality has increased change your early game to match your late games quality i guarantee you will notice an increase in players and revenue and final fantasy did do this so they reduced the question longer than it needed to if i had longer to make it i would have written a shorter script cheers for watching another massive thank you to the supporters on patreon and twitch who keep the channel alive you can support one pound a month check the video description for links to the patreon twitch twitter and discord and as always have a great day that's about right i i completely agree uh games that take too long to get into them uh that is a problem with the game itself and anytime that somebody uses that as an excuse uh i will take them i will take that less seriously apps are lutely man [Music] you

Channel: Asmongold TV

Views: 574,503

Keywords: asmongold, asmongold reacts, asmongold wow, asmongold highlights, asmongold youtube, asmongold funny, asmongold tv, asmongold channel, ZackRawrr, asmongold ffxiv, asmongold final fantasy, final fantasy 14, ffxiv, mmorpg, mmorpg 2021, mmo 2021, mmo dead, mmorpg dead, mmo boring, mmorpg boring, asmongold mmorpg, asmongold mmo, josh strife hayes, asmongold josh strife hayes, final fantasy xiv, world of warcraft, wow, warframe, When Great Games Have Terrible Beginnings

Id: d7Yi3Wq8VCM

Length: 25min 32sec (1532 seconds)

Published: Sat Aug 07 2021