all right here we go we have Tony Gonzalez aka GZ the former manager of the clips who came home from doing eight and a half years welcome to Vlad TV thank you thank you thank you well thank you for joining us here and you know this is your first time here and I think you have a very important story so I want to go ahead and start in the very beginning so where exactly did you grow up I grew up in on Virginia seven five seven Virginia Beach Norfolk Portsmouth area okay born and raised yeah I was actually I was born in Chicago but oh wait let's say concede in Chicago my mother um just so happened on my father's from the west side of Chicago humble part and my mother was visiting him when when she owned me know when she had me and then um we went back to Virginia where I was born and raised okay and in Virginia did you grow up with a two-parent home one pair at home um well I grew up with my mother went back to Virginia she went back by self and I'm her and my father a real father separated and my stepfather raised me since I was long since I was like nine months and um so you know so he played though he played a good role in in the house okay and as you were growing up were you was your family struggling were you middle-class um do yeah we were struggling we are we actually are I grew up I was we went to Norfolk a place called Robin Hood that's torn down now so I was about three and then my mother arm moved to twin canal a policing by green running them in Virginia but my grandma stayed out a place called called Bayside with John and I'm going to go stay with my grandmother because my mother and father you know with them struggling I went to stay with my grandma you know who actually raised me and um so you know ain't how much and how much in the you know you know but the area where I grew up in it was a you know all the action everything going on you know but um but my household you know growing up under my uncles and um my husband who was Panamanian you know that's what I saw all the drugs and stuff in and out the house and you know okay so you're growing up in this house and you starting to see drugs at an early age at what point did you start dabbling yourself when I was about in junior high you know you know I grew up with the going on up under the couch and seeing a plate of cocaine with a scroll and I'm like what is this you know so so when I got in junior high um I end up finding out what that was you know through home going across the street to the neighborhood called base out on and with me going over there and saying what the guys they were doing over there you know I was like oh I got dead in my house so um I had a stepbrother and a stepbrother who um my grandmother my mom and I raising two and he used to go inside my uncle used to go inside my uncle um jacket hearing and finding the stash and I'm gonna sell my uncle Jackie and and taking it and giving it to me so I took it across the street to to the neighborhood and found a thing to actually cook it up for me and that's how I first got into the game okay how old were you at the time I was far about fifteen okay so a fifteen years old you essentially became a drug dealer it was basically yeah okay now the clips the two brothers had they moved to Virginia at this point or not really um I wasn't sure you know I didn't know anything about them I didn't know anything about them until I turned probably about I said about 1718 somebody that for like 19 um but um I didn't know anything about them at the time okay so from from 15 to around 19:00 were you continuing with the with the hustling yeah yeah I was on I started to you know cuz I always been home you know we had a Spanish last name it was it was kind of easy for me to to end up finding different connects but um like I said I had an uncle who was Panamanian and I remember being at my grandma house one day and he's sitting there counting 250,000 and I'm like wow so I end up I end up on getting something from him and going and actually served the other guys who was actually on the corner and um you know but then oh he ended up getting deported so here I'm getting deported you know I had to find my own way so I don't find him my own way you know I was friends with this guy named named Tony had the same name as mine and he's the cook so he actually showed me how to actually cook and so we riding down the street one day and uh a song come on the radio 103 and a song call I got quote Dylan at age of my five so I'm like hey who is that and he like bad that's the clips I like the clips he like yeah that's for real group sabado and you know them he was like yeah I know that I'm like dad to studio right now so I was like well shoot I need to go meet them cook are they talking about what I like to do so he was like well I set it up as a matter of fact we can see we go past there tomorrow so my mind started racing so I'm like alright it's a guy in my neighborhood based on all named chance so I said before he goes to the studio tomorrow I'm gonna go grab chance and take him to the studio to see if I can get him on the radio you know that's how easy I thinking it is but me not knowing that chance came up underarm Teddy Riley in them because Teddy Riley to make came down to Virginia at the time and shot a video down the beach with um with Ferrera called rump shaker so I'm thinking oh man I can get in the game I can get chance on I can be this manager or whatever and all but everything didn't go to plan like I thought okay so by the time you're 19 how deep in the drug game are you I'm deep I'm I'm actually going to I'm going to New York with on with another childhood friend of mine and I'm transporting drugs back and forth from New York to Virginia okay and we're talking about kilos tens of kilos hundreds of kilo ohm at the time you know cuz I when I finally say to my mind I was able to get one key and then it wasn't nobody around Virginia who I can actually get it from like like talking about it long I'm going to get one and then end up turning into like three keys out of time and I'm coming back and forth like that okay so that's around what 50,000 or so every transaction oh yeah at a time actually it was going for like in New York probably about 20 24 23 something like that done okay so it was actually more than that's around 75,000 yeah okay well when you talk about coke the cocaine game people don't play by the rules my people are robbing you people are shooting you people are selling you fake cocaine people are snitching on you on everything everything that could possibly go wrong usually goes wrong in that game so leading up to that time what kind of loss is retaking um I took a couple of losses by really wasn't taking amazing losses because I had a I had a good team around me so so my losses came at just with dumb thinking that damn really got to pay me because I'm protecting you or their did they mess up so I didn't really take too many too many losses you know and then how I was you know suffer I lost it on the road coming back um otherwise that ain't really take too much losses in the drug game okay what about arrests during that time yeah you know um people was bizarre people was getting you know getting knocked off but um but back then it was it was a certain coat though that like really people really stuck by the end like anybody saying nothing you know like it was it was I know our our way it was it was like like you know if you're getting out you go do your time and that's what it was we had a couple of people to our neighborhood who actually went in and you know snitched and and you know and that had the bad name but you know angry line of problem with that what about the violence the violence was always there you know but I did my thing if we did if I did get beat for some money or something like that or you know some started it was a thing of I rather just cut them off and keep it moving because I can live another day you know so so I wasn't bout no violence you know there's one thing but then at the time you know like I said I was surrounded by my good dudes them like people already knew like yo if we do go trial then you know but and okay well I interviewed Ballas who went by no malice at that time and he talked about how him and push a tea moved to Virginia Virginia Beach and I guess they had two cousins that were running that housing projects I guess Bridal Creek yeah that right no and being that environment malice started moving drugs first and then he went away to the military and then push at II kind of took over you know did his thing at that point we had two cousins here that basically had this housing project so none called Bridal Creek and these guys they grew like freakishly big at a young age and nobody would ever mess with them you know so it was very easy for for me to go out because my cousins ran everything you know at first they wouldn't even let me get down with anything that was going on but you know after a while you learn the ropes hanging out everybody knowing you and knowing not to mess with you so it was you know kind of easy were you aware of what they were doing over there or this was just two rappers you know that we're on the radio that you were interested at that point um I know who their cousins was you know I definitely knew their cousin was they were they were older than me but you know far as them being around the neighborhood around a neighborhood whatever they did around a neighborhood it won't no concern to me over in my neighborhood so I wouldn't know okay so it's a totally different part of town yeah got it okay so then you go and meet the clips yeah how did that first meeting go you know like I said so the next day when with my friend Tony he took me over to the studio and I take um you know my neighborhood hero father's rapping chance over there he didn't tell me that he already knew for real and it was all under Teddy Riley and they kind of like you know with chance doing doing a couple of song without thinking like black street and stuff like that they end up putting them to the side so me bringing him to the studio when I got there they was looking like what is he doing here so that introduction really ain't go too tough so I end up on leave and I end up meeting them you know but I'll end up leaving taking chance back to the neighborhood we end up going back the next day and you know that's when I end up talking to a pusher and malleson Pharrell and everybody okay so Pharrell was actually with him at the time yeah he was actually with him he was actually at the studio when I first met okay and yet I mean Teddy Riley kind of discovered The Neptunes yeah and they they produce from Shaker like you had mentioned and that blew up and then the Neptunes were kind of in the game and the clips were their first artists that they signed to start track yep how big was Pharrell in Virginia at the time was he huge or is he just someone that was up-and-coming no he was you know actually he was somebody who me being from the hood we used to because he went to president high school and I went to Bayside high but um I was like probably like two grades under him so he was in the band when he was in the band I was like at the football games couldn't wait for the football games to finish the weekend I'm fighting the other neighborhood or whatever so he's to actually see me and I actually knew who he was because he's the way the space jackets and he was considered weird so when he end up on doing the rump shaker thing here got a little you know he got local local fame but it was until like the Noreaga song and all that came out that day that he really was on another level um but during that time he was you know we looked at him like he made it and and he had more money than anybody we knew legal right okay so you meet the clips you meet Pharrell when does your business relationship start with them in terms of you being their manager um so at the time when I came around it was getting ready to shoot of a video called the funeral out Norfolk and when they end up shooting that video they end up getting dropped I think it was on Elektra at the time right Elektra yeah and then I'm getting dropped from Don from the label so at this time for real was trying to shop them another deal so what enough happening was on with which I want to go to much detail in because I was playing that part in my book I ended up going on the road with Pharrell and me and push it was actually going to different states meeting for real but I was you know paying my own way and stuff like that and um and he was having he was having push to hop on different on singles songs that he was doing with people you know I was going to like LA and and you know all these different places and all and me and pushing just going together cause mayhem end up connecting it one more so with mileage mere malice and connect it war so push it because push it was more like Street and also mayhem end up connecting and developing a good arm a good bond and so we was actually meeting Ferrera wherever he went and push her hop on the track 1204 doing a song with and the death I was going for a minute until until Pharrell end up getting to deal with on with our stuff okay and then the clip signed to Arista didn't Eclipse IDE - for real the air still but they signed on the Star Trek with Pharrell and and what happened was they end up then I was going to have Rob Walker which is which was for real manager at the time he was going to be their manager and they were gonna make me the road manager but it was the conflict the interest being with Pharrell with on Rob running the label so he can be their manager so I went from being the road manage to say okay you can be our manager okay so now you're the Clips manager on paper officially yep people and they start working on the Lord willing album yep and the first single is grinding yeah were you there when they put that song together yeah I was day when they put this on again I've asked you in the studio with me when they did it okay and I had heard that they didn't really even like the beat there was like alright where's the rest of it and Pharrell was like nah this is gonna work yeah no that's true they didn't like the beat oh you know actually laughter they recorded it and it was me who was taking it to different radio stations and imma like sleeping outside of radio stations trying to get the djs them to actually play it on the radio and just one DJ I gave it to his name with them did you do something like that so I give him the I give him the record I call him I said yo you gonna play it and he said well I don't really like the beat maybe I can do to beat over and I'm like what so um he didn't play it but end up I and I'm having all DJ stress DJ stressed end up playing him and joke they're not playing it at all you know yeah and it's a golf actually it didn't take off for about nine months because we end up getting inside at home we end up doing a tour East Coast tour all of us on a little Winnebago and going up and down the East Coast trying to get it played yeah means a very unique song I mean just a drum beat like that like something you would do on your you know cafeteria table pretty much yeah and you got these two guys spitting drug rhymes all throughout and it just somehow worked ya know yeah like I say it was a it was an imma run man before it really hit because you know phenom us it wasn't being played and I remember that day when we was in New York and they start planting and and flex I think know I might was a sight for sound of flex drop some bombs on it and we thought it was over there okay so then that song does well and then when the last time the second single comes out and that one does even better yeah and then the Lord willin album comes out and it goes gold yeah and then like the clips are doing songs on like Justin Timberlake's first single and all these other guest appearances like you guys are now in the game officialy yeah how did it feel to come out of you know the background of hustling and looking over your back to finally hey you know I'm part of this successful group that's making money legitimately and doing tours and getting endorsements and I'm part of this I'm the manager yeah I mean it was it was it was like a dream I mean you know like it was something that I could I never thought I'd be doing especially on from where I came from but um you know but I had you know cuz I had to learn on the fly cuz I didn't know what the job entails or anything and um but I had a lot of had a lot of good mentors to really show me what they're doing how to do it but you know like I said it was overwhelming though it was overwhelming because I start hustling because because once we signed the deal I made a pact I made a pact to them that I was leaving the streets alone I had a gold tooth in my mouth and we had an operation get that tooken out and you know I thought I was this corporate guy and I said you know anglo I'm not even going back to the hood which was a mistake too because once I started doing that there people in the hood looked at me I changed you know but you know you know that go okay and the clips really were known for the drug rap I mean from the first single to push your T's name to pretty much every song and then to this day push your T every song is talking about cocaine and drugs and so forth how much of that in terms of those those lyrics on that first album how much did that was based on your life I said a lot you know you know I see a lot I see I say 90 95 percent okay so they be writing lyrics and then they ask you for ideas well actually no no no they'd have had astronaut for no idea off of what they seem you know so you know they didn't have to ask me that but I remember it was a couple of times I remember it was a rap back in the day mayhem was on sitting there talking and I said to him I own I made a statement I said man for every for every car guy at nine knows me I'm just generally talking I said that he was like and he looked at me but he ain't seen nothing and then I heard it in the rhyme when we said oh yeah for every car night at nine knows and I heard it and I heard and I was like eh I said that to him you know I mean so he was good when it came to that type stuff um but um but I never say you should say this you should say that you know I mean I don't have to you know I mean because they can they saw what was going on okay so you're the manager you leave all the street [ __ ] behind you and now you're just focused on your legitimate career with the clips first album comes out like I said it goes gold and everything is going well but then some label issues start to happen before the second album yeah explain that um so end up you know we was on air still so we're not finding out that uh that I remember going in office with guys and I lose in front of La Reed and he was saying how you know that um Esther was going to merge with Jive and you know just in that listen s I'm like I'm like you know but with me at the time I understood what was going on but you know I'm pretty much like alright so what does this mean you know cuz I never you know we never been part of a merger so it was a thing of with us going to Jive which which was a pop you know label um the guys done was like mad about that because you know they felt that they didn't know how to to put out a rap album you know a grimy gritty rap album for what the clip was about so once we got to drive it was a thing of us going in there and seeing if we can get off because for end up signing the deal with Interscope so he decided to do with Interscope he basically signed us away please you know and the clips so very was saying yeah so you know we don't want to let y'all go because he was looking at it like as long as I got y'all Pharrell is going to reduce y'all anyway so but the guys you know um like well you just let us go and let us you know could was trying to go get a new deal but he looked at it like well you know we're never giving you our money already cuz they already had gave us a check too so we locked in so the guy was upset you know you know so that's when litigations and stuff started and we were suing jive and telling we're gonna give him no album and Barry and Pharrell was in this pissing pissing contest and Pharrell told him well I'm not working with with Justin that was Justin Timberlake no more and so Barry and I'm going to get timber that's when you end up hearing timber there knowing all just and stuff so you know it turned bad oh it turned bad but when the guys really found out that that Pharrell shipped him away that's when you know when it it kind of was bad blood but I did we were still talking to for everyday like a what we can do what we're gonna do so now he's trying to fight to go ahead and get us back so uh what inner happiness was you know I know talking to the guys and it was like man you know what we're gonna do so I mean I'm a guy by the name of Tony Draper man Draper had a good relationship so I know calling Draper talking to Draper you know telling Jennifer the situation what's going on and he was telling me yeah my arm I know very wise real good you know maybe I can go and set some up and see of um if he see if he let y'all go so I went back to the guys and it was like you get tell them to see if you can do that so so Tony goes he come back and say man seong-chil really wanna let y'all go you know you gotta understand that that they are like they are like a big label like death sit all day but they got other artists they still making money for us they're making money the guys ain't making no money so like you know but Barry said here cut up another check and it's going to put this album up so I go back to the guys and say hey they say they cut your no check so so they were like alright cool so we start litigations Dan ups on you know give us another arm check and so now they got to work on this album but now drape is like I tell Drake with him doing that I let him partner up with me I gave him 10% of the management and he can help me manage the guys okay so that's the the hell hath no fury album alright but during this time not a lot of money's being made there's with you know I was also in charge of booking shows not only I wasn't learning that game because I'm in Virginia I used to do a lot of rap shows in Virginia bringing it to the Nova and different places on so you know I didn't have the nightclub well actually I have nightclub Dan but um I ended up taking over all the booking so I'm booking shows everywhere different states and they tell me yo we need some more shows me some more shows but now telling them listen we can't keep going back to the same places like you know when got no song on the radio but I'm doing the best I can so you know end up drying up so we waiting on the album to be complete which was taking a long time because with because Nana was the thing of they're going to different producers trying to reach out and Pharrell is busy so you know so it was taking way longer then then expected so that's when I have a lot of free time on my hair as you're waiting to you know for the clips to put together hell hath no fury you decided to hop back in the streets again oh yeah but but it ain't come it ain't come you know like that it was like cuz you know I'm talking about like two years the day they have an album out or the way they was recording album took like two years like it was taking so long that Draper came to me and said hey like I don't want nothing to do with it no more because because Betty no Berry was waiting on the album and they kept putting them under pressure and Drake was like yo y'all just go here I'm out so hearing up leaving but um but what happened high end up hopping back in cuz you know like I said it dried up so I said man I got to go back to it's what I know but you know coming cuz I'm we was gonna tour like right before this and I'm running across a guy named lo you know he came to me he was like amen anytime you wanna go y'all want to go on tour I got a tour bus the child can just use so I said well why would you just let us just use the tour bus he was like no well actually I I wrench all the bus but then I want to have a bus traveling back of y'all so I said well why you want to do that he's gonna just be on tour was he like nah he said well actually he said I got a couple of connections and I'm gonna be moving work inside one of the the buses so I said we're nah I like we can't do that because if you get not you're gonna come back on the guy so I have you know I don't want to do that so I said on so he was like alright cool but we're hearing up doing was getting in the air of some of my cousins and um who I had out there on the road with us and so there used to come be like oh man the guy lo said you know he got to work for the low and and it's a drought back in Virginia and he can get it to us but he just needs you to co-sign it so first I wasn't with it but then I said I I go into co-signing because he want me to co-sign because he feels some happened to the work then I can pay for so he end up home he ended up getting with them bringing bringing work down to Virginia and mayhem end up getting cool but I had nothing to do with the work at the time so end up on me him got so cool I start going to Atlanta mam end up getting uh another crib and I landed together and um you know you know he end up I'm coming to me one day saying I got 20 keys but um with these 20 keys at least need the money up front for ten so I called my cousins and I'm like yo didn't you notice what do you need but my cousin was like man we don't got no change you know to put up that money for that so I'm like oh my god well you know what I do I'll put the money up I said I put the money up but I'm gonna charge on the work now because stuff is slow for me something's gonna charge on the work so end up a couple months pass and we end up having a book on the show at a club called on bed in New York and um so I remember me and the guys are we all hopping on excursion we're going to do the show club car bed and a guy named lava he gets a call he gets a call to say that the club's manager and done was give me to go do it so I bed and the truck's manager OH de Mexican some money for 20 keys so I'm like uh-huh so everybody in the truck looking at me like what you hustling again but I'm like oh no Mexicans because the guy loan is a black guy so I remember getting to the club club bed you know I see this guy he come up to me he like yo son you Jeezy I'm like yeah he's like oh you know lo so I'm like oh no I'm like yeah but ain't seen lo he said well you need to call do pipe because the do pipes say that the guy low end up giving you 20 keys and you own so the next day we goes to UM Clinton sparks show and I called the guy pipe and I'm talking to pipe and he tells me hey you know we got situation going on somebody old for this meadow for that so you need to come out to Phoenix so all to answer these questions so now you're back in the drug game again I'm back in the game again you know at this point do you feel like kind of frustrated with yourself you left this whole life behind to try to go legit and that didn't really work out so now you're back where you started in a way yeah yeah but you know at the same time I was I was like tired you know cuz on it just it with the music business hang you know cuz because the music business just like the streets you know and me dealing with two different people it was kind of like like you know I gotta do it push it and I gotta do it my list and dancer so you know I want to say was a babysitting job because did they grown men and they're very smart they're very intelligent you know specially when it comes to being a student on the game I'm gonna come to the music you know so they take stuff real serious but you know each one of them have different issues so you got to do that and um you know but I was getting tired I was getting tired okay so now I started dealing cocaine again and you have a Mexican connect well actually I think you know I didn't get it until you know when they tell me I had to come out to Phoenix and so I go so I ended up going out to Phoenix to to explain why I don't owe them for twenty kids but I owe them for ten keys so I end up going out there and um and I'm taking another one at all knowing my child friends with me out there what just came home actually from doing like 10 years I took him out there and we sit down with the Mexicans and so we got the middleman and we got the head man this is called the the head man Johnny and didn't get the middle of man with his pipe they start telling me how you know sitting I walk in the room first thing they say is yeah we love your group and I'm like all right you know ok so they like but um you know we want to know do you want to work something like that when I work I'm like well hold on let me explain to you about I want all y'all for the 20 keys he said no we ain't worried about that right now it's cool I don't want to know do you want to work so they start talking throwing prices all at me yeah I give you the keys for 17 the you know the weed for 250 and you know the hair I listened and I'm sitting there like man I only really know too much about hair on but all right cool but I'm just trying to just say whatever it is so I can get up out of it you know so you know I'm hoping they say I gotta come with some money and I blame me I don't got no money and then they be like well i cool but you know they end up giving me the prices and stuff we end up eating dinner and up leaving about a couple months later I get a call is this guy is the guy out front he's in a van and he took me to open a garage in Spanish open the garage up and they're not looking to meet up meet her so I go to the van and I look and there's these big FedEx boxes crates of FedEx boxes you know so you know I go in to help them we're bringing the boxes in so now I'm realizing yo this is this is de Mexicans work so I run and I ready to go get the money for the tim-ki so he tell me no no no call pipe called pipe so I called it got pikemen he tell me hey um you remember the prices I told you right so I'm like yeah so he like Merry Christmas I've been in a couple weeks and um you know so the rest was though you know for about a good year I'm I'm back in the game deep okay so now you're back in the drug game 100% are you you know managing the clips anymore or did you completely step away from that role well no they still working on the album they still working on the album you know it's like I said during this period of time it took like almost two years before they even finished before they even finish the album so we're going back from the beginning another two years when I'm back rolling so you know and at the time I'm so deep I'm not thinking about the I'm not thinking about the music no more the honest truth they could have not called me no more and and and how I'd been fine but you know I know making so much money with the Mexicans I ain't around a nightclub in Virginia called encore I end up on moving to Miami getting a spot in Miami when it bought me a Bentley and put the Bentley out there in Miami so I'm I'm out there having fun enjoying my life well according to articles mm-hmm coroner federal documents said that you laundered money through several front businesses one named as the clips booking agency sole providers management which basically styled themselves out as music producers rappers entrepreneurs club owners clothing designers and other legitimate occupations in order to conceal the true sources of your income is that accurate oh no but but like when it comes to the federal law once once one penny of drug money is is consumed all of it is dirty so so so you know even though what my trucking company was legit is it's now in tainted you know with the book and you know I mean so but but I didn't launder no money when it came to that that was you know I kept that totally separate but like I saying once you're in that game they make it seem like it's all the same okay and do the clips have any idea what you during this time no okay I mean you know like I said butts up for when we got that call and they heard you know what was going on they heard it but far as you know after that no down you knew where everybody else will see me will actually think you know why is these guys not making the money right now and you just bought a Bentley something's going on right and I guess there was a drought in Virginia during this time so you were pretty much the main guy that's bringing all the working yeah one of them I'm not gonna say the main guy one of them yeah okay so here you are now back in the drug game and then the feds you get on their radar yeah well actually I was on the aridity I was on the radar back in oh one when I stopped I was hearing you know people doing grand juries on me Dan but I ain't really understand what the face was um but I when I end up hopping back in I was on their radar I'm not getting on their radar because um the Mexican who I was dealing with end up getting caught okay that's pipe yes pike so pipe gets caught with weed and a gun in Richmond yeah yeah yeah yeah and he starts cooperating and he actually names you he named me and he told how the whole operation went down he told from how I initially first came all the way to Phoenix to settle a debt and everything under the Sun after that well according to articles they're saying that you're running a twenty million dollar drug ring yes I'm about right you said that so that's accurate they weren't exaggerating dare dare dare dare put a tent on the - a little bit but but you know but I would definitely say say between 10 and 10 and 20 because because I do it is because how they do it is everything that he ever gave me he told everything he ever gave me so what they do is they don't only just say okay one key the equivalent of one key they do it with equivalent of how much you actually make off a key of breaking down so if he giving me 50 keys you know I'm saying it ain't just how much one key cost is how much you can make off of 50 keys at your height during that time how much profit were you making a month oh man oh man I was making them I was making probably about you know cuz because what I used to do I used to say if I get fifty seven I get 50 keys I only put like two thousand per key on it and on and I probably sell 50 in about three weeks two weeks okay so you're moving 50 keys at this point you're in the big time this is this is not like before where you're getting to three keys at a time you're now moving heavy weight yeah okay now in articles they're saying that the drug ring that you were involved in was linked to Olympic gold medalist Tim Montgomery as well as former Bloods gang leader Marlon Reed yeah they say but but um you know me and Tim me and Tim Montgomery we all go together he sold me um him him in another he had a partner it was this guy named James going to scoop Club they end up selling me encore if I can't remember how much exactly it was but it was a transaction of some money and some weed and and end up getting into that little trouble he got into and handing up going away so going away to prison so when he went away to prison I offered him some money to just buy all of them out so when he got caught when they said that you know man come on the club together they made it seem like me and Tim was selling drugs together but me and him never ever so no drugs together you know they even say that he actually had a hand in stitching on me but you know you know how the streets do discrete so just just just throw that word around so loosely Tim never snitched on him he told what I bought the club for you know which is kind of dressing at you but fires he couldn't say to him because we never did not work together okay so when when pipe gets busted it turned into seven sealed indictments yeah and it was that included you your friends and national family members yeah actually it was all family it was all family was like three of my little cousins my sister boyfriend and it was I had a childhood friend who I grow who's already doing time and they brought him up in indictment because the whole thing was there to get like they had put like six people in it to make it a CCE case it seemed like it was that many people under my control to order for the beat of CCE you know so you had to have I think is like six or more people so they make sure there was it was six of us and you know so the charges can like try to stick ok CC e stands for what Gong continued criminal enterprise ok so now you're in a sealed indictment and the feds start tapping their phones yeah what were they catching on these phone taps you know it was did they end up they end up coming coming to get you know to speed up the diamond quicker because on some happened around one night after my club I had a little cousin of mine who end up getting killed down the street from you know in my neighborhood leaving the club one night and um you know you know people start throwing my name around blaming me saying that I had something to do with it and um you know he's my cousin oh but the thing was it ended up coming out you know that they knew I had nothing to do with it because my phone was tapped so so you know when it comes to murder and stuff and you get the pins of the phone and they listen to my conversation and stuff like that they knew I had nothing to do it but still but they had to investigate and I'm doing when they had to investigate it was a thing of of making them hurry up and coming to get me because you know when the fair see that they wanted to come and indict you and if they feel like violence of Summers occurred they want to come and get you before something happens to you your name is in you got your name in an indictment they're tapping your phones you're working on the clips next album in Miami and people start getting picked up by the feds yeah when you heard that how'd you feel when I heard they were looking for me yeah well and they're picking up other people around um when they were picking up other people I was like you know I was kind of into knocking I'm like any picking them up picking me up let's do it but um but when I found out how close it was you know for good for good our our two before I got the call that there was at my house in Virginia looking for me you know man my stomach was like all the pieces cuz I'm still like I'm still like well damn catch me with nothing I'm like they can't be looking for me like highly looking for me and I'm at my house in Miami okay but they ended up Ashlee picking you up at one point well you you turned yourself in yeah yes so so did the sort of day that um you know the guys that were in Miami and it was on their way back to Virginia and I get the call when they was on their way back to Virginia the next morning and um so for that weekend I end up calling my cousin she was a she's a lawyer but she's not the corner lawyer of my family so I called her and she said oh she got this good lawyer used to represent like Michael Vick and I'll iris and everybody all got my neighbor woody Woodward so um calling him for me and I'm talking to him so he tell me listen don't come back on air plane train bus or nothing because they're trying to make a movie out of it but like they're trying to have you know put me on this big stage they make me seem like this just animal so he said he got some mom some connections in Miami and I can go turn myself in to the Miami federal building so you know that's what I ended up doing did you tell the clips what's about to happen no but actually they was getting the calls because you know cuz you understand like all us was like all of us is like family so they talked to to my little cousins and you know just like I do so the day was getting a call from different family members and and everybody telling them what was going on so they pretty much knew it before I even knew it right because I remember when I interviewed push a tee like seven years ago we talked about this situation he said that nine of his best friends got indicted you in a situation a while back were like your former manager caught a major case yeah how many usually good 30 to 32 years yeah that did that shake you up a little bit I mean because that was your home but yeah I mean yeah of course it shipped me out but I mean you know you know I do this followed them like you know it wasn't and you know people always say my manager man it was nine of my best friends not just my manager none of your best friends yeah what was the big year seriously okay so in a range from ten to thirty four years and they got between ten and thirty four years each yeah so this was just like just a [ __ ] like everyone started going down that was around you pretty much yeah out of the clips react to this like all their friends are now getting busted he has a federal investigation and he gets sentenced to 32 years for drug trafficking right right were you guys investigated as well or is that simply towards him that was that was towards him okay I mean but was there a certain amount of fear that went into that because you know how the feds do it did they try to drag everyone into it oh it was an extreme amount of fear there was you know you can only you couldn't help but wonder what the possibilities who was gonna get you know dragged down with that or you know how everything was gonna play out but I seen I said and I watched you know all of our friends you know go down in the in that situation and you know there was a time when I thought you know that we would be involved with that um would it well I ended up calling I end up calling him a little push I call one of them and I you know cuz I'm still thinking there's a thing that I can call and you can just go bond them out so I caught one of them on the phone I'm like yo you heard such a such just got picked up and you know they're picking up everybody you know they're like yeah I'm like well go bond them out and I you know I get the money when I get when I get back but um you know so you know at the time we've not been in Virginia and me being in Miami you know I ain't really know how they really felt you know I gonna imagine okay and I guess Pharrell and push a t help pay for your lawyer yeah um pusher for real and a guy named shake shake who's part of tews part of the nerves he looked out for me to he's on me I'm a I'm childhood friends to okay so now you're locked up yeah and you know the feds don't just want you they want every buddy yeah so they take you into the interrogation room and they're trying to get as much information as they can out of you what happens at that point so so what happened was you know like I said I turned myself in Miami and um and of Hannah get transported back to Virginia so I get back to Virginia and uh you know I'm sitting there and I get my name call you know lawyer visit so I go and I go out and when I get to this little room it's on it's my lawyer first he took me he bought him into this next room and it's the arm it's the FBI ATF and they want to sit and talk to me so I'm saying like well hold on what I want to talk to me for I'm like ain't it to you that I'm guilty yet so he like knowledge listen he said you know I'm gonna tell you this just listen to what they got to say and then we're gonna determine whether we gonna go to trial or what we're gonna do so I said alright cool so I walk in the room and something I walk in the room is on the FBI ATF and it's the homicide to take and no first one spoke with a homicide detective he say first I want to tell you that all I know you had nothing to do with your little cousin getting killed so sooner you said every day I broke down in tears because I was like forth you know cuz when my neighborhood a lot of people was on blaming me saying I had something to do with it so for him to tell me that I didn't it was like whoa you know if knocking really pretty much born knowing that all right cool so then you know he started asking me about do I know these guys who actually had something to do with it or whatever whatever you know but honest truth I didn't know nothing cuz even when they caught me on the wire with me telling them I don't believe I can't I don't know who actually who did it because normally I find out everything that happens and you know in Virginia but I but but I didn't know so you know so that cut short with that cuz I couldn't help them I couldn't open with anything on that so the FBI comes and they say listen you know they say we will give it to you straight they say um you got Pike you know he told on everything that he gave you you know like we got because the one thing people don't know in the face hearsay is admissible so whatever a person just says he can say he gave you a million keys and that's on record that's a million keys Deb you can try with a million keys because it's a missile it's different from the state the state here saying they're miserable you got to go through all kind of stuff what the fair's it's totally different so they say you know we got enough right now with just him and forty-six other people who's ready to testify against you in Virginia you know cuz we had people just hopping up on the case you know you got some guys who was in prison who was trying to get a sentence reduced who said that I dealt with them and oh one and and guys didn't who said they dealt with me dan who definitely didn't it then you got guys them who were close to me who didn't even who was signing up to say I don't want to go down so I wouldn't to testify from the street guys know who was real close I gotta also tell about that in my book so so they say but with the guy pike who's who's on actually telling on you but he won't tell us on the guy Johnny so they say so so we need you to cooperate on Johnny and we'll make sure that the debt your sentence go like they said but if not you know you can get like so you know me so I'm sitting there and I'm like well I ain't never been in trouble for I'm like most I probably get is ten years I'm like I don't know I mean I don't know nothing no you know tonight was telling my friends so he said on but we also want you to know that and put out paperwork and stuff implicate my mother my wife my sister and my aunt and I'll say it and if you don't help us out we're gonna have a diamond to go pick them up tomorrow so I'm like okay you're and you're you're how old at the time I'm 33 I think 30 to 34 okay so at 34 years old you're being told that you're facing life and they're gonna lock up your mother your wife your sister all that yeah and this is document in your honor yeah okay how did you feel at that point um I mean I was like like you know Don the truthful like I grew up on a certain code that you put to keep your mouth closed you know but uh when you start mentioning the women in my life you know I'm like wow but then I'm like okay my mother is a hustler so she she she understands that is consequences so you know if you sell drugs you know you go to prison is what it is my aunt also which is married to my uncle was Panamanian she was she was in the game too but um when it comes to my wife and my sister who don't know anything about prison drugs or anything I'm sitting there like yo they can't go to jail you know so I'm like I gotta try to figure this thing out okay and they offer you something called immunity papers yes so they tell me um that we can give them immunity all I need to do is sign and all we can go and give them immunity for me to to cooperate against the guy Johnny which is the other max again and um you know so I tell them I say I can't answer them right now I said he trying to think about this so to make a long story short on that I end up going back to my cell could've told me to just to think that anger picking about up yet but this thing and they can come back tomorrow then we're trying to give me a week to think any other day so I'm like all right so I go back and I start calling I'm calling everybody I'm like yo listen this you're here what's going on you know doesn't that I um you know when the first person I call called my mother I'll tell her I'm like mom you know just what's going on to pick you up and she like what I do I'm like I'm like this what they said you did because what my mother did she got our own look people who she do a lot missing with piping was telling how you know I probably be out of town or something like that here come and I have my mother give him a whole bunch of money so from her just taking money and he's giving it to him you know that's how she just implicated oh well my wife she um she had some money orders in her name that she didn't know whether before I had her give me some money words and I took the money orders and I gave it to somebody and they got caught with the money orders they had her name on it or the day and of knowing that the money orders came from her so they're trying to say that she knew about it which which she totally didn't so and I'm telling my mother that's the first I can say this for was my call and I tell her that they were gonna pick her up and she like well first and she said well I heard you snitching and I said huh I'm like how you heard that like I just had this me how did you hear that I said well well I'm telling this day granny come pick you up so she like pick me up cuz she like why they gonna do that I'm like man you know sauce paying to her she said well you need to tell them but they need to know I'm like withhold oh I said I said no were like that I said I understand you know this is what's going on that I was you're not called a couple of friends up and I told them what was going on so everybody who I basically talked to say yo the only thing is if you end up going to tell on the guy Johnny with him being you know Mexican and damn Phoenix it can be repercussion on my family anyway you know so I got away that but they saying like okay so the Mexican got pipe tails on you and now they want you to tell on Johnny and he's Mexican so making the sim like don't care nothing about me so I need to decide what I want to do so you know guys them you know who I grew up with and different type of individuals said to me yo do what you need to do and will protect your family as long as you in there cuz I'm looking at it like I'm still gonna get my time but as long as my family get immunity and ain't going to prison I'm cool okay and and you don't actually know the affiliation of these Mexicans that you're dealing with you don't know if they're you know Sinaloa cartel Mexican Mafia you just know these are just a couple of Mexicans that are plugs yep on the bottom I want to know I mean there was rain even know his real name okay but you know you've heard horror stories about what happens when you cross Mexicans ya know you know the killing of your whole family you know I mean they in Mexico they really while out I mean entire villages you know heads in the middle of the court yards police chief's getting killed you know I mean there's a whole El Chapo story and so forth how scared of you are you you know at this situation of testifying against what seems to be a high-ranking Mexican drug dealer you know I was I was scared for my family because I mean you know I know I'm gonna be in prison you know so my family being out there not under my protection you know it was you know it was one of the weakest weakest points of my life that I felt like I gotta depend on guys there who I grew up with and you know to basically protect them you know and and then not only that the scary thing about it was when there when they had bought that first initial van to my arm address I never told them why I stayed at so you know so I don't know how they even got my address to where I was that which I only take that the guy low probably told him or anything like I mean I don't know what the driver part I already had been there I'm I don't know so yeah I mean I was scared I was scared okay you know when going through various articles instead that you were sentenced to 32 years yeah but then I'd also heard 20 years so which one is it now house in 232 382 four months that's how they say it in fear okay so you go to trial or you do a plea deal no so so so you know the next day I end up going inside the office you know and I signed the papers for to give my family immunity so I signed the papers and I tell them you know whatever y'all need me to do the guy with the Redskins got Johnny you know I'm cool with so I signed the papers and um I ended up getting sentenced to the thirty two years and I end up going up the road wait so you took a 32 year plea deal yeah I took a 32 year plea deal which was they was trying to give me life but they said okay with me not being in trouble the devils whole thing we may never been in trouble before my guidelines came to 32 so if I would have had like one like one like charge on my record that was like crazy it would have put my guy lines up and I could have got life but because I've never been in trouble that would give me the 32 years so I basically signed assigned to to open plea it was open plea so when I go in front of the judge didn't he start with the guidelines he gave me the low end of the guyline um for the 32 years okay I mean from the outside looking in to take a plea deal of 32 years when you're what 34 years old at the time you're getting out at 66 that does not seem like much of a plea deal I mean why not just say I'm gonna take it to court and see what I could do there cuz I can't have my mother damn locked up I can't my wife locked up okay I can't have my sister locked up I can have my locked up like this was really like you have people in prison who I actually seen who actually just who try to justify for folk for the actions they might say you know just figure speaks like the guy on six nine he trying to justify for saying oh did they did it to my girl you know I mean so that's trying to be a justification to say oh I was good I do it to my girl that's not nothing that's that's really saying that if they really did it to the girl you know I'm saying so he's trying to justify why he's doing with you doing oh they took my money but with and not saying that I'm any different from him but what I'm saying is - documented to say I got your family what you're gonna do this is like in black and white you know so it's like this or that so it was like me go to trial they get locked up but in the face I was are you got because when you got to connect telling on everything you bought from I was gonna lose trying I will get life I will get life so I'm looking at it like I take the 32 years and I could sleep good knowing that my family locked up when you talk to certain people like for example when I interview busi he has a very hard line when it comes to what he considers niching if you cooperate for any reason that's niching so he did that to get out of trouble right you know he did that to get out of trouble so he read you know he did that to get out of trouble you know he basically did that to get out of trouble you know I just feel like he was gonna take that to the grave you know so if you were facing 25 years I don't give a [ __ ] what I'm facing black we live by Cole's man I don't give a [ __ ] man [ __ ] be talkin about all that red [ __ ] aint folder you put yourself in their position you [ __ ] up anybody put their self in their position [ __ ] you [ __ ] up hit someone years on you now whatever go I come at you use on you man you [ __ ] up good [ __ ] you need a [ __ ] all this who did that who did when this and now you did a my god so so telling on someone who's dead that's still considered snitching in your in your book yeah yes you know he was on death row ready to take a needle and and be on every project you know mural and so forth other people will look at and say well if someone snitching against you you're allowed to snitch you know to tell on them back some people are gonna look at what you did as snitching yeah that's what it is so you would say snitching yeah I mean I would say it snitching oh like because I believe in a small lie and a big lie it's still alive you telling one person you're telling them being person you can still tote I mean there's no way there's no way there's no way around it but you know but even from when I went to prison I had I had an easier in prison because once you get to to these different prisons and I started no camp I started at some really tough spots you got to show your paperwork so when that goes to my paperwork and it explains about such a such and such and they look at it like in prison they say they looked at when they see and I said okay you got a Mexican guy who told on you and you told on just other Mexican guy cuz he wants on the Mexican guy but then you did that but so your founder wouldn't go to prison oh man you know but then when you put that in your mind on what you what will you do they're looking at her like mad that's a tough pill now you got people who gonna say oh man cuz I you know I had people say this in prison but you shouldn't had your family involved in it but like I told them my family wasn't involved in it that's what the feds do so you know I mean but you got to put yourself in that situation so you can't say what you're gonna do and tell you can put in that situation well I mean but to be fair you did involve your family I mean your mother dropping off money for drug payments your your wife cashing checks that that are tied to drugs I mean you're smart enough to know that you are actually involving them along the way yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah it is what it is so now you start your prison time and you have 32 years at the start yeah okay so you start your 32 year prison term and based on the paper with you side initially they want you to testify against Johnny yeah so then they fly you out to Phoenix I guess yeah so so like five years so about five years later I end up getting home I'm on the yard I end up getting called to go back to court now I got guys them you know basically looking at me like yeah where you're going you know so I'm spending them what's going on so I end up flying like the Phoenix and when I get to Phoenix I'm nervous because like I said I've never been on a stand before I like I never had touched no stand to point nobody out of doing it so when I get there I'm nervous and the first person with the FIR person I see is Johnny they got him in one sale and they got me in one sale and he looks at me and he said I want you to know that I understand your situation I had my guy if he would have he said if I had my guy with a hole hold his weight and not put your family up against against me then you wouldn't be in this situation and he said so I want you to know Dan will be no repercussion on my hand so I mean when you say that a whole leaf just just just goes like whoo I'm like is he lying but then he said oh but I'm not even going to trial today I'm like yeah so he's like yeah oh so he tell me that on but he's pleading out I'm like whoa okay cool so I'm like hold on now I'm thinking to myself same thing you asked me while ago I'm like he plead now I know he's gonna get life how's he plead out why don't go to try with his family involved too so he said um you know but him Tim but he don't tell me that they say he pleading out or whatever so probably about a couple of hours later they're coming to get me and and to take me back to the county jail and Phoenix with us so they cheer me on so you know so far we ready to go he told me he was like man you know just you know he basically telling me that he's sorry that he's sorry for the pipe you know so I'm like all right cool so so I saw at the time when I'm leaving it's like a relief but at the same time I'm like is he lying so I get back to I get back to the compound and talk to my lawyer and my lawyer basically tell me that the guy johnny is cooperating that's why he in a pleading out and um it won't no trial okay but based on your deal you did what you were you told him you were supposed to do so you actually fulfill your end of the bargain yeah my fulfill my end of the bargain so they came and said I'm okay well um we're gonna go ahead and give you all take your time to 16 16 years so my lawyer was like hold on why are you taking it to 16 years and he signed up for to do people to do but they looked at it like what hang I didn't touch this thing I had to testify so so so you know because it's like in the phase if you get on the stand how to testify on all this they pose a you know kind of look out for you more so my lawyer like well hold on he took a chance to put this you know that some could happen to his family put his life in jeopardy and the whole nine y'all need to do more than that so he end up filing his paperwork and three months later came back and he took my time - ten years she went from 32 years to 10 years yep that's a hell of a reduction during this time while you're locked up are you on the phone at all would push your T and mouse yeah yeah yeah I'm on the phone with um I'm on the phone we push it a lot I'm on the phone push a lot I'm on the phone with my list mallet sending me cards um yeah I'm gonna form a whole lot okay and now because you're gone and you're the breadwinner of the family and you have kids you know I got three daughters you have three daughters you have your wife and I guess every so often your wife hits a push your tea on holidays and so forth to help out some money yeah she hit him you know because I got the kind of wife that's like she's like real independent so she's not just gonna just keep calling so you know but like your holidays she'll call and you know go back to school she should call and and hear answer every call and he makes sure that whatever she won't you get to he look now okay well you get out push her t is now in full swing he's now you know rolling with Kanye doing good music his album does well malice becomes a Christian rapper he changes his name to no malice you know and I remember I interviewed him you know he said that one of the triggering points for him to kind of do a 180 is he started thinking about how many people were killed listening to the clips or killed somebody listening to their music and their stories about drug raps and and the violence and everything else like that so he's completely out of that same game that he was in before how many people went to jail listening to the things that that I said forget everybody else you know in other rappers and other groups think about how many times people got pulled over went to jail my record playing in the car think about how many times somebody here was blown out you know and and the the theme music still playing or whatever whatever because I know I liked who I listen to and wash my car to it you know pump my gas in it and it was just the theme music to my life but push her t is in full swing and the two you actually meet up after you get out of prison yeah yeah yeah you get he um he came to he came to visit me when I got when I came home again to visit okay and he gave you a check yep he can match it give me a nice check do you say how much nah okay but it was a nice check yeah yeah that I'd never ever told anybody and I only say that because it was rumored that I told people how much he gave me and I was unappreciative which I felt was an insult okay so you get out and you wouldn't push your tea or cool again but Pusha T has someone in his circle that you're not cool with I already want to talk about that I'm fair enough fair enough I might put it in there no oh then what am I in it I might put it in the book though I might put it in the book okay fair enough and you know we're gonna go ahead and show this picture you and push your TS you take a photo together yeah after you got out oh you got that photo I see you do your work yep number one how did you feel about malice you know becoming a Christian rapper and changing his name to no malice um you know the funny thing is you know like I actually I started my book I start my book like that was basically talking about the conversation that me and Mathers had right before I got picked up and he was pretty much he said he was gonna go get saved but he told me you know that he was pretty much gonna bail out but um because he didn't know you know we didn't know you know what would happen you know the situation happened with me with me but um I looked at it like you know and not saying that a person can't find God after the fact but I was looking at it like he was scared he was scared and and you know he did what was best for him so he turned so he turned to God no cuz he didn't know I mean he didn't know what could happen I remember I don't know if it was after you got picked up or after you got sentence but I think he had put up a video basically saying hey look we ain't got nothing to do with this you know my car is on stock rims and you know he basically was like distancing himself from that whole situation you know be scared cuz they didn't do it yeah because ultimately the clips never got charged with anything they they never cooperated against anybody they were basically just the rapper's when when you were being hamed up were they trying to say hey look what are the clips doing because it looks a whole lot better if you get some star rappers indicted as opposed to just you know their manager coolest people have never heard of what were you telling them when they were bringing up you know push your team mouse's name did the same way when they brought up friends of mine who didn't get who didn't get caught up that they wasn't doing it that there was rappers they asked me you know had they ever did anything I told no it was me I told him if they did something I ain't know about it the same way I did with a whole lot of my other friends which was which could have got me in a lot of trouble far as with my friends because you know because in the fair's if if they ask me about somebody and they end up going to pick Tom they're going up and I tell them now don't do nothing and they end up going to picking them up and then they come in and say they did do something with me now the paper I signed for my family high ability is not a void and then it can go pick pick up you know my family but I that's me taking the chance to say please don't bring that one of my friends in you know so you know because I wanted to be able to still you know I mean walk around you know without that on my mind of that I did some to to anybody that grew up with anything but they asked me but they asked me and like I told him all they do is rap that's what I told him I told him whatever they rapping about it was about me I mean did you know the artist with the clips actually questions with the clips like brought in and interrogated and so forth Nana well I didn't hear that well you get out push your tea gives you a check you guys hang out a little bit you know like which is where the photo came from and so forth but at one point you and push at econo I had a falling out drifted apart something happened between in a relationship so what exactly happened um you know I think was a thing of of not only do you know we're moving in two different directions but but we do have a falling out you know that's the last time I talked to me we had a little argument because I wanted to put I wanted to put my book out and I told him he thought was he thought it was a bad idea so you know I ended up bringing up you know in the heat of the argument I end up bringing up about the snitch song and what I had to go through in prison what could have got ugly and you know he said some things you know that you know because which I understand I understand from his point of view of here to clean up a lot of mess you know I'm saying father it's his image and everything everything that happened so you know I get that so I just looked at it like um you know it was just on his part that it was best for him to just go on going his path and for me to go on you know going my way you know I mean isn't is just sort of ironic though from a certain level when you look at it when you say okay he can't really be associated with a convicted drug dealer he has to clean up his image but to this day we even hear like his newest songs it's all about selling cocaine it's all about selling drugs it the you know the the content has never really changed or evolved he's rapping in 2020 about the same thing he was rapping in like 2001 yeah it's been almost been almost two decades now and it's really the exact same subject matter you know jay-z was rapping about cocaine in 2001 in 2020 not so much but pusher T has stuck to his lane yeah but I mean witness the best way that's why he you know like how can I say that's what he knows you know Destin Lane that you know he got it he got a fan core base that's dope that what they want to hear so you know he's content with just stand stand right there at the level that he got you know and and this feeling that that core fan base that wants to hear it you know he's content with that well push shorty gets married and you don't get invited to the wedding her did that hurt hurt hurt hurt and you know it's funny because I I called him before when I found out he got married this was before the argument I called him and I say you know we just talking cut it out so I'm actually waiting for the chance to say hey um you like me to them you inviting me to the wedding so when I say some about the wedding he says oh oh ain't handling that part of it you know I mean so right then and there I'm like okay I go to my wife I say yo he said he had on that part of it and she said well I don't think you've been invited I was like dang that's this like that's crazy you know I'm saying you know you know so I mean I don't know I understand I still am I still don't understand but you know for long you know for for a period of time I was hurt but right now how I feel right now is like it is what it is I'm a grown man so you know I mean Aang ain't tripping now I'm not but I was hurt what about your relationship with mouse oh you know when I was in prison and I was telling my list cuz I know he had a book out and you know he mentioned my name in the book and he had the Netflix hangout he mentioned my name in the next thing so I'm like all right cool you know and he was sending me like um like prayer quotes and all that you know where he in there you know he saw some I'm you know I'm getting all this I'm like alright cool so I'm talking to him so I tell him yo I want to I want to put me a book out you know say like yo long we'll help you we'll put it out I'm talking to this person for it now that I end up getting um I know getting out he still said he's gonna help me oh but then I think we find out that they don't they push it in one in the book to come out that's when he like backed off of it but you know we're still talking but they know I felt I felt some kind of way you know I felt some kind of way and I said you know what I'm gonna back up from that situation I don't want to talk to him anymore because you know he got to go for what his brother um doing you know he just have to so i said on i'm gonna back away from that situation so i have to talk to him either do you expect to some point that you'll reconcile with the clips or do you think at this point your lives have moved in such different directions I mean you know push your T's now you know an even bigger rapper malice is now fully Christian you've left the drug game alone and you're running legitimate businesses you know you guys have had some great memories together but you may just not have a lot of stuff in common anymore if it do it do I'm not going to force that um an honest truth I'm not even thinking about that like you know you know it's like you're saying like I think everybody's going in different directions and you know like about Psalm it wouldn't be no you know dah dah dah dah dah dah it just you know I speak and I keep it moving I mean you know that's just sighs look I'm 44 years old man like you know it is what it is I'm appreciative though of everything that both of them done for me when I say that because from oh one from taking me off the streets a base I long and put me in that position you know I would have still probably been in the drug game forever and and then you know anything could have happened so from oh one from the time that I got picked up I appreciate them for the moments right there but the one thing about it you definitely can't erase nothing that I actually did when it comes to you know when we first started in retrospect if you look at when they're working on their second album and things got slow and you decided to jump back in the drug game if you could rewind time and say you know if I had just waited a while longer and just not even jump back in eventually the second album came out pusher tease career eventually he started to blossom again I could still yuccas could have potentially still been in the mix and had a good career without ever touching the drug game and never done those eight eight and a half years and not involved your family and you know and all the [ __ ] that went along with it do you ever think about that I wouldn't do nothing differently I want to do nothing different I've got no regrets on anything I did but you got to also understand this because one thing that you can't do what you can't do but you can't do it I never do is the what-ifs because you got to look at it we don't know what like the de product would have still been eclipsed and he putting aside that he wasn't assigned to home Kanye is the chance that he wouldn't know now he's a great enough artist you know cuz you know to me actually he's still one of the the best rappers you know far as rapping you know lyrically but he's a student or turning on what could what hikes he could have reached you know could they probably were to put out an album and it just went whatever it did and they come in this doing the same thing but with what with my demise that's when everything trickle and you know he you know I gave it substance you know from from what happened to me you know so so you know the car fell how they feel no but we can't go on to where this well push her T eventually starts beefing with Drake and Drake ends up sort of mentioning Pusha T's alleged drug dealing or lack of I believe I believe that Drake got a lot of that from my interview with no malice like if you watch my interview with no malice how it sort of breaks down how he for you know how no Matt you no malice started for his dealing and then he went out went out to the military then that's when pusher T you know got involved and he mentioned the cousins like if you listen to to the the deputy freestyle it basically from our interview and you know depending on who who you who you talked to some people say that push your t won that battle other people say Drake won that battle when you saw all that coming together and you weren't involved in it but you know you were part of that whole crew how did you take that well I mean well actually you know I'm gonna say both up on one I was they both loving one and I was playing that but going back because I remember the trick says you know who sent some about the cousins or whatever the honest truth I don't like I said I know I know the cousins but the cousins never been wasn't no big-time drug dealers there wasn't they wasn't who what drink is saying oh it was the cousins you know I don't know what cousins they are who you know who both have been them cousins but I will say the reason why I say that both of them one because push the killing them far as everything he said and it was a good play like I said he's like one of the best he's very smart very intelligent you know so he won with that but with Drake not coming back saying out there it didn't work for what push you wanted it to work for because you understand this drink is a way a huge artist so so without him coming in and and making a big thing about it you know you know I look at it like the white Caucasian woman don't know who she is she know who Drake is so Drake did good by not saying anything and saying oh alright I don't want my core fan base to even know who you is you know I'm saying so you know so I look at it like like pushing one to battle but Drake it I mean he won't stop I mean he's he's still drink well yeah and in an interview that Drake did with rap radar not too long ago he basically said that him and Pusha T will never be cool and when he was first leasing to push her T he thought he was the biggest drug dealer in the world and I when he found out all that wasn't real it was like kind of a big disappointment and so forth and you know the the whole drug thing associated with push of T is always gonna be a very interesting topic because it seemed like pusher T did dabble in that but he was never what he was saying he was in his lyrics really ever but that's okay but did he actually say in his lyrics that he was a that he was a big like did you actually say that I see what you're saying I'm not sure I guess you really gotta have to go through and really break me I don't think I don't think he actually said was a drug lord you know I'm saying I mean I'm not gonna say I say what he done because you know ain't say that Dan and they gonna say that now but you know I mean but you know I might look at it like most rappers that's what you know that's what they do they rap well you have a new book coming out called 384 months the sacrificial lamb yeah why that name during 84 months is what the fairs you know - you think about months don't give out years you know so that's what I was sentenced to during the 84 months and a whole bunch of reasons why the sacrificial lamb because if you look it up is it's like animal a person who gets sacrificed for the greater good and I look at it like you know not only for my family to be able to not be behind bars you know for friends and stuff hoo hoo I'm still cool which others day who didn't go to prison who loved me to death Oh for malice for him to fall fine God for push her to be in a position that he actually and now you know after our sacrifice you know and it's crazy because we're all that being said it's still like I'm the one who being appointed as the bad guy you know so I look at it like you know I sacrifice for everybody else you know fall for the good well there is a silver lining to the story you're no longer a drug dealer oh no scared to death scared to death and you actually have a trucking company yeah we're actually transporting legal goods definitely yeah yeah haul vehicles a whole vehicle yeah so you know but like I said I'm seatbelt scared scared to be around anything that's that's like and going through that again I got kids to raise I'm done I'm done yeah because I know that you just hear the story over and over again in some of the interviews that I've even done you know like I interviewed Boston George you know who the movie blow was based off of and he was out of the game and he was living free and he just want to do one more deal just let me just do this one more deal and I could retire and then that's the deal that sent him to prison or Freeway Ricky he was he was gonna be the king of hip hop in LA he was buying like this huge concert hall and he was gonna he had hooked you know motels and his plug kept calling him over and over again to do one more deal and he finally decided to that one more deal and that kind of life in prison which he ended up beating but he ended up doing like 20 years in the process but he got to walk out but it's always that one more deal like okay I'm doing okay now but if I do one more deal I could retire comfortably and it's usually that last deal that ends up putting you away forever yeah do you think about that no no no you know Ashley I don't you know it took me a minute to even want to come out with this book because you know I knew he was a you know he was against it so I said I I'm not gonna put it out but then the circumstances of of him going his way I'm going my way you know I sit and I talked to a couple of people over which I got a good I got a good surrounding team who say man listen you need to do what you got to do so you know because everybody is only thinking about them and their careers and so be it so I got to think about me so far is just the book you know that's the only time that I'm even thinking about prison or any of that stuff otherwise that I don't think about any of that at all you know but um but I will say though I take my head off to the guy who is sitting in prison doing thirty forty years or never getting out and they got certain family members far as like women mother did wife or whatever is in another cell on the yard and he's sitting back like I'm a real guy because he didn't do what he had to do to free his family members I take my hat off to that guy because when being a drug dealer you got to be cold-hearted you have to be cold-hearted and like you said in the beginning there's no ain't no fair game any anything so you got to be really cold and I won't built for that I wasn't built for that you know so so so you know cuz I took my head off to that guy well that's really I mean you got to be honest with yourself and not everyone's built built for this game you know I've told the story a few times my stupid ass decided to go buy a kilo with a guy no you know back in the late 90s and I got ripped off you know for $17,000 off the RIP and I remember I was mad I was mad for a long time until until I remember I mentioned this in my interview with Freeway Ricky and he said well if he didn't rip you off for that kilo you would probably would have ended up in prison true and it just hit it hit me like a like a ton of bricks and I'm like damn you're right it cost you 70 yeah that's $17,000 you know with a kilo of cocaine which is a full-blown felony and I can say this because it's way past the statute of limitations and I never said his name or anything it's like had we successfully flipped that kilo and bought two more kilos or whatever I could have ended up with 30 years and my life has been great since then $17,000 ain't [ __ ] to me these days that's a nice vacation I wouldn't I won't trade that for a week of my life much less 30 years so it all it all kind of has to you know you really have to put everything in perspective and you have to realize you know at that point I 100 percent realized I'm not built for the drug game I'm not built for the illegal game let me just go back to doing regular legal work and that's where I'm gonna make my name and it worked out great since then it took a long time but not everyone's built for this drug game most people are not it's not designed for you to win it's designed for you to lose side for the fence to what you know the fence are gonna win and they're gonna bring down everyone with them and listen I'm glad that you're out I'm glad that you're healthy I'm glad with your with your wife and your daughters you have a legitimate business you could grow it slowly but surely you don't you don't have to worry about looking over your shoulder you don't to worry about getting killed you don't have to worry about your family getting kidnapped you did your time and you walked out of it and you know with your upcoming book 384 months a sacrificial lamb you should be allowed to tell your story just like you're telling your story now I wish nothing but the best for you yeah like I said I want to thank you for the platform absolutely man absolutely but keep keep doing your thing I'm looking forward to actually reading the book and you know possibly in the future you know you and uh push your tea and no mouse might might reconcile whatever you have definitely they're absolutely gonna watch every every second with this interview of course I'm gonna be both of them before they're they're very familiar with the platform you know as well as the whole reap gain and I'm sure Pharrell is gonna watch it and everyone else like that so I think it's gonna make an impact and whatever message that you're looking to send will absolutely reach the people you were trying to send it to yes sir thank you well Tony Gonzalez bad appreciate you coming all right no doubt man peace I thank
