WHY SUCCESS Comes From Mastering Negotiation In BUSINESS & LIFE | Chris Voss & Lewis Howes

[Music] welcome everyone back to the school of greatness podcast very excited about our guest his name is Chris Voss thanks for coming on Chris I appreciate you got a new book out that is called never split the difference negotiating as if your life depends on it so make sure you guys check this book out really powerful and Chris you were the lead international kidnapping negotiator for the FBI for how many years well fishel II the lead for four years probably in reality about seven seven years okay and you've worked on I think I read 150 kidnapping on a goat Hynek level negotiation in cases raises gross award you and this and these range from kidnappings or from bank robberies or from water all the range of yeah you know um mostly kidnappings and one of the crazy things about the job was bank robbers are real rare back the robbers of hostages all the happens in movies all times happens in the United States in the whole country about once every 20 years okay and one of them is that one of them is a bank robber with hostages that's that's like the first story in the book so which it's rare to have gotten you know it sounds stupid let it was like I thought I write but yeah I caught I caught one of those and and it was great so my experiences a little broader than most Colorado shares and you're a police officer in Kansas City before then right KCMO PD I lived in st. Louis Missouri for seven years so were you on the Kansas side of this KC MO Missouri gotcha there you go and and then after that you went right into the FBI are you were I did no went for the KCPD direct into the FBI actually it was it was like a ten day period that I was not employed by really ordinary civilian there you go okay and you were doing investigations while at Kansas City or we doing street cop recap rode the car rode a uniform beat cop in Kansas City there you go okay what made you want to get into becoming a negotiator in the FBI why do you think this would be fun for me or something you wanted to do well it was originally a SWAT guy and you know before got it law enforcement I figured to be a SWAT guy like I'm a medium-sized guy yeah so I figured why gotta do martial arts and so then in college and then I then I ripped my knee up really badly in college and martial arts and that was what we ended up being the turning point negotiation because then I was on a SWAT team in with the FBI when I was in Pittsburgh and was on a SWAT team there and then it tried out for the bureau's version of the seals which is the hostage rescue team and when I tried out for the hostage rescue team HRT then I reinterred my knee again and then I realized there's only so many times doctors can put it back together let's top Humpty Dumpty how many times doctors put you back so after they got the knee put back together second time I looked at hostage negotiation I don't know what negotiators did you know it sounded both cool and easy right you know and and I thought I could talk to terrorists I remember literally thinking yeah sure okay so then but and then at that actually bit was a big turning point getting onto the team in the New York City office because originally the woman who ran the team just tried to shoo me away because I had I had no credentials I just figured I could do it I'm I'm uh I'm from sort of a can-do pitch in kind of world yeah I grew up in a small town in Iowa and it's like hey figured out do it get it done we want to the next thing we're in Iowa Waverly Waverly I've been away really says well that's a mecca of Iowa culture okay no I'm from Mount Pleasant all right yeah southeast corner of the state it is about 35 miles south of the future birthplace at james t kirk okay just for all you start yeah there you go so what was the first negotiation process like for you at the FBI what was it how long have you been at the FBI for what was the outcome yeah the first real deal was bank robbery with hostages in Brooklyn your first deal as a bank robber my first FBI gig if you will Wow and this happens once every two decades bank robbers with hostages are rare Wow okay where was the bank it was it was in Brooklyn at 7th and Carroll as Chase Manhattan Bank and every word then no but I was I was gonna I was actually scheduled to do with terrorism related interview that morning and I was a I was a not quite a year out of negotiation training and part of my Charlie Baldwin came in says his bank robber with hostages in Brooklyn let's go Wow and you were in Manhattan at this time right yeah so Charlie and I and we were both nursing bad knees at the time he actually have bad left knee I had a bad right knee you got your wheelchair your crutches justify hobbling around hobble around and so we pull up to the bank robbery and we're too close to the crisis site and we didn't realize we're like right on top of where the bank is where the bad guys were so two to two guys with bad knees bail out of the car and low crawl basically through the inner perimeter to where the negotiation team was being set up and that was my first game okay and now there's the team in a van like it is in the movies where you're like have a van you got the radios and if you can't set up some place then you get a van gotcha and NYPD had a van but we didn't need it we set up in a bank across the street took over it was Chemical Bank at the time and just took over the bank and set up the negotiation room right across the street rock and roll took us two hours from the moment the bank alone went out the first contact was two hours two hours is that quick or is that you know that's probably standard okay cuz it takes everybody a while to get there two hours so they had to wait for two hours to till they got any communication well that's what we thought the bad guys inside we're really true and they and that was that was one of the first things that I began to learn lessons about business negotiation because the organizer inside was one shrewd guy and it's a cliche in a business world that if you're sitting at the table with some guy who wants to make them seem powerless that's an influential guy the guy who always said look I don't have control of what's going on here you know I got a CEO I got all these people anybody the points to negotiators away from the table the harder they work to make themself seem powerless the more influential they are because they don't want you to corner him at the tables I don't have the decision they can't make the decision well they can't they don't want you to know it yeah right they're acting like they can't make it right right right and this guy that Bank he just kept saying you know these other guys that I'm here with they're so dangerous I don't know what they're gonna do and he was extremely calm and at first we just thought we're dealing with an inadequate personality somebody just had no power but we found out after the fact that he was one of the most controlling guys and the guys he took to that bank robbery they didn't even know they were gonna rob the bank they thought they were gonna burglarize a cash machine well he was he was manipulating everybody so my first solid dose with that was somebody like that was like one of the best business lessons I ever learned why what happened how long did the process go for 12 hours well I was in total how many hostages there were three hostages inside two women and a man they had they had guns they had everything I'm assuming bad guys rolled in this guy thought everything through in advance and he rolled in with a gun that looked like a 357 was actually not because he wanted everybody to think he had a 357 so the first thing he does when he rolls in the bank is he takes it to female tellers hostage he hits one of them in the head with the 357 he sticks the barrel in the other ones mouth and pulls the trigger oh my gosh she's like terrifying yeah it's frightened out of her mind she thinks it you know was just an empty chamber which is what he wanted her to think and then would he would he drop the hammer on an empty chamber he said now open the vault and they wasted no time getting that vault open but by them the police had showed up we surrounded the bank and so the vault was open they got cash and bags or whatever they were getting ready to get out when we swelled and surrounded him so how did they get out well they you know we had him trapped inside and so we we went through a really long negotiation I mean this guy's thought everything through so you're on the phone with him you get a hold of him he gets a hold of you how does that work we call the bank the first thing we do is we try to isolate the phone loads right so but so we just got in order we connected our equipment to a phone and just called it on the bank phone and this was and then it'll be the way we communicated the entire time he was picked it up the first time yeah well cuz he's smart he was he wants to figure it first of all let's get away I worry Dylan he wants to get away and he also realizes that if he's talking to us there's a pretty good chance we're not coming in right if he's talking to us and also if he realizes he's got to manage the risk level you know he's gotta talk to us in really measured tones and so he knows as long as he's talking to us and sounded reasonable were probably not gonna break down problems but if they're sounding crazy then you're gonna come in and we're gonna come in so he sounded reasonable he was right like what was the conversation like well he started off right off the bat by telling I was a second negotiator the first thing he'd done was he had already actually we didn't know he called the precinct before we got there he called the precinct and said they wanted to surrender which also then that that's from his perspective he thinks that that means we're gonna drop our guard and it's very much like a really shrewd negotiator says look I want to make a deal you know and if you get a negotiator says you know let's do a win-win deal right I mean the suitor win-win comes out of somebody's mouth across the table relaxed that well that's an automatic mortgage somebody's trying to oh really to rip me off uh-uh interesting cuz let's try to get me to relax he or she sure sure you know if I look here you say man you know let's do a win-win deal here you need to be putting your hands over your wallet really cuz I'm going after it that's funny because I'm always thinking about you know I'm trying to come from place of win-win and all my relationships and business skills right now in my life right but I'm honestly not trying to like screw someone out of a you know by saying that I'm really like let's make sure that you win I win in this business deal or you know whatever is happening but it's different maybe when there's someone who's stealing something well it's context too but and then is the first thing that you say is like if you say to me look I want to make sure that this is good for you and then I want it to be good for me at the same time right you know you're expressing a win-win but if I sit down I was I was saying like look Louis you know that still would win here I'm telling you I don't want to pay you anything mmm this pseudo right comes at a moment interesting so you should negotiate first before saying that is what you're saying well you start thinking about stuff other than money well you know what really telling you is I don't want to give you any money gotcha in that context right gotcha right but the sooner somebody starts trying to give you a deal it's a great move to get the other side to relax right okay so what happened next well he called the precinct and said they wanted to surrender so what he the deal he wanted to do was he said put a van out front we'll all get in the van and we'll drive to the precinct right that's absurd like you'll drive the preset okay right like but that's an escape plan right so but because it came out half that information came out when we actually got to the bank at the beginning all the top brass had showed up they figured you know they're half paying attention they figured they it should be 20 minutes and it's over because that was the information we first got that they wanted to surrender and as stupid as that sounds a year earlier a hijacked plane and coming to JFK and in that hijacking the hijacker said he wanted to surrender as soon as the plane touched down and that was in fact what happened so there was some precedent in New York for somebody wanted to surrender right away so if you're half paying attention you're thinking oh it's the same as this stupid hijacker a year ago well it wasn't the hijacker that came in a year earlier he wanted he wanted to get into the u.s. to get out of his country and he figured jail in the US was better than life and he was saying and he needs need a free ride through the u.s. that's way huh yeah hijacked a plane that's funny he didn't know he's gonna spend a life in jail Wow but that he and so there was some precedent for it so the bosses show up and they're just hanging out outside shaking hands and up paying attention what's going on you know pretty soon they wonder what's taking them go she ate is so long they're looking at their watches they're like we've been here an hour you know these guys said they want to surrender an hour ago why is anything out well they were stalling and they were trying to escape and and we also found that the gallery inside was um he was burning money in the basement the bank was under construction at the bank Wow and what he was doing was he stashed a couple hundred thousand dollars inside the construction and then he burned a pile of money in the bank anyone and so he figured I don't have to get away with the money I just got to get away if I had a little hide anything I'd come later I'll come back and get it later Wow see it was a cage yeah he was it really case smart and at at 8:30 that night right at 12 hours later he walked out of the further Bank and we put those golden handcuffs on he couldn't get out although we hadn't we have to but even even up to the last minute I saw because I was inside I saw the video he's looking around he came out real slow and he was looking left and right the whole time I mean right up to the moment that our SWAT guys actually put the hands on him he was looking for any uptight escape yeah he never lost his poise the whole time oh wow interesting so how did you guys finally get him to surrender order well he got when I got on the phone with him I was part of a change of strategy and I was good if something wasn't working for a while right well we'd slowed it down and I was gonna be the really tough nice guy all right like I'm gonna my job to get on the phone was to be the immovable nice guy the nicer you are the more movable you could be mmm you know you know and forgive me for picking on mr. Donald Trump right now but you know the style of being you could be very aggressive without a very certain without being aggressive and in his stylist he wants to yell at people you didn't want to intimidate his way in you don't have to give up that much assertion you just you don't want to be that mean you don't want to be that harlot for example what do you mean like how well you know there's a win la yes um this great guy here tells name was Tom Girardi voted top trial attorney in California several years in a row by the Bar Association he gets a voter top trial attorney so many times that when they put on a front page I say again Wow so he comes in and he's a guest of my class at USC and he stepped and I know he's a top trial attorney but I was style I figure he's gonna be an attack dog cuz I spent so much time in New York you know him used to attack dog attorneys and Tom walks into the class and he says you know the key to negotiations being nice and gentle then what Tom does by being nice is get you to drop your guard at Tom is it a moveable unrelenting opponent and that's why he's so successful and he's ridiculously nice about it like he smiles and he chats with people and he always talks about how will collaborate with each other in the future he you get into an argument with him and immediately he'll bend it he's talking with you about how you're not gonna be successful the other ten years from now hmm or in the future which is the same thing a hostage negotiator does like if your barricade in the bank I'm gonna say my first goal is to get you out of there alive well I picked a point of future that we can collaborate on Tom Girardi does this instinctively and he's just super nice about it I mean like you either you've got to cooperate with him because you like him so much he's never gonna let up on you or more than likely you're gonna say something accidentally mm-hmm and and he gets people saying stuff accidentally any and then he could and then he doesn't jump on you if you say something accidentally he lets you say so many things accidentally what do you mean I think I don't mean well like you know he loves to get people on uncovered they never should have written hmm like if you if you said Tom and email st. Tom let's go have lunch together he will not email you back saying ok because he doesn't put anything in emails because that's a downfall of almost every single lawsuit somebody who's done something wrong is gonna put it in an email Wow in hub knows if he's nice to the other side long enough he's gonna figure out where those emails are so and that's what people do all the time you know lawsuits are uncovered people get into trouble with what they put in emails when Wow Whitney when they say hey they said it an email somebody else is saying you know we you know we shouldn't be doing this in a person sends an email back say like yeah it's okay no way to find out oh my gosh in today's day and age people put stuff in emails it so Todd knows he's just relentlessly nice lent 'less and the most charming guy you ever met in your life wow so you don't have to be aggressive to get what you want to get what you were interesting okay I've got a bunch of questions for you that I want to ask about this but I want to do a role play first if you're cool with it I'd love to say you do this in your class or a special outfit no we gotta wear wear uniform yeah I'll be your referee okay I might have you be a wide receiver we can do that oh you for illegal procedure there you go but you do this in your class right because you teach it I see business school and what other role play usually consist of what parts so I say I say all right I'm gonna ask you to volunteer to roleplay with me further class okay and I want you to know just in case you're worried about role playing with a hostage negotiator in front of everybody just ease your mind just so you won't worry I promise you the experience is going to be horrible perfect and you probably give that why anybody else in the class mmm okay all right so here's a roleplay you volunteered you yes I'm a bank robber your hostage negotiator I'm trapped at a bank yes you and your colleagues you've got to be shredded your job to talk me out just like your first case right okay yeah there's only four restrictions you can't give me transportation you can't give me weapons you can't give me drugs or alcohol and there's no exchange of hostages you can't offer come in if I offer to let everybody go you can't offer to send my mom in if I let everybody know because I can't get anyone to come out people only come up nobody come no exchange Ferno you know like Eddie Murphy didn't move noise one person egg let me talk to you you can't do that you can't walk me no one can come in no one comes only people can come out only people come in so those are those are the only four ways can something else come in sure if you if you don't break any of those other restrictions no I'll call drugs alcohol no weapons no drugs no transportation broadcast is exchanged okay we'll do the negotiation over the phone all right would you would you ready say ring ring a little pick up ring ring I need to call in 60 seconds or she dies let me see what I can do on that okay you got 57 seconds to do something well Chris we don't have cars that quickly tell me your killer right now you've got 55 seconds as a matter of fact or you tell him you've got to give me a car let me see what I can do on that get back I heard you say that before you've got 50 you got 45 seconds car yes and I need to make sure she's still alive before I can get you a car she's alive I need proof 43 seconds I need to hear on the phone nope no absolutely not 40 said I want to help you get wigs actly what you are in fine you tell me you can give me a car I'm gonna do my best to get it for you as I heard do my best are you telling me this is Eddie yes to a car 35 seconds I'm gonna do my best to get you a car it says I need a little more time than 30 seconds because we can't tell you you have just said you are going I'm gonna get you a car just give me a little bit more time yes on the car I'll get you a car yes on the car okay you got 25 seconds because that cars everywhere if you can give me one you give me once right up front right now and give us a few more minutes and we'll get you a car as quickly as we can you get 25 seconds you're gonna have to give me a little bit help here doesn't give you anything you got 20 seconds we're gonna do our best to get you a car yeah you just said you were gonna give me a car now you're back quickly as we can you're saying yes on the car yes my car second side killer okay well we just need to make sure we have a few more minutes to guess tomorrow for you yes okay 10 seconds okay our men are on it right now okay we'll stop there okay all right so literally that's everything that you did was wrong no no your strategy's on the money okay seeing I would only change how you tried to implement the strategy okay but you um you trying to feel me out a little bit you got a great tone of voice like I was attacking you like Kroy yes I'm hitting you hard yeah and I actually used one I used a Donald Trump voice basically uh-huh now you didn't respond you didn't you didn't lose your stuff at all you stayed very calm the whole time okay that's the key that's not easy to do not because I was feeling it inside I was like hell man that's very impressive that you voice didn't come up one iota in that negotiation and with that particular voice is a counterpart it's not at least a bit unusual we start talking over each other right you know talk over me once right is that a key yeah it's not right to interrupt her secret to gaining the upper hand in negotiations given the other side the illusion of control now I'm coming at you as a very control oriented negotiate as soon as you don't struggle with me over control you actually begin to gain an advantage because then you feel like you're in control right you don't have to try to gain it anymore right right I'm more than likely gonna start dropping like if I have a control freak guy if I want to talk all the time about a control freak guy control freak negotiators didn't want to talk all the time they feel out of control when they're not talking so you want to get them to the point where they don't talk but they don't talk because they relaxed not because it tries to seize control right so you did you did a real nice job with that now the only thing another thing that we teach is see you're not gonna give me a car right and you're trying to make it sound like you were going to yeah now I teach how to say no and then you want to feel other ways of saying because the real answer to that just like at the very beginning in my book you're supposed to look look at what saying how am I supposed to do that mmm so pause it back to a question right uh uh how question an open-ended question well not just open it how okay how is a key to life yes is nothing without how see you know the fight and and you could also started talking about how without talking about yes mhm so just say what I you could see how would I do that what I say I'd love to get you what you need how would I do that just know what I do how would I do that so give them the control to fear at the solution right right right how am I supposed to get you the car in that timeframe because that's what you're trying to express there actually is a time problem here right in 60 seconds how am I supposed to get you a car right right that that's different then we can get a car we just need 60 more seconds all right we need more time yeah right because because now I think now I think you're ducking me okay but if you instead you say like how like you know you course the cars are out here right away but first of all I got a I got to tell everybody what we're gonna do I don't need anybody to get surprised let's talk through the details of how this is gonna get done in the meantime what got you here the first place mmm you know how do you find yourself in this kind of a situation how do I make sure I get you out of there alive the succession of how questions how am I supposed to promise to get you a car if I don't know that she's gonna come out alive mmm you take what you want and make it the path to what I was hmm you know how am I supposed to get you in here if it doesn't benefit me also rights so as soon as in any negotiation what I want is now a means of getting what you want then that changes the dynamic right away so so how do you deal in a negotiation with the kind of person who has to win and ask to get everything they want they're very controlling alpha right and it's their way or no way we're getting everything they want is actually third over their list first of all being control is number one on their list that's emotionally satisfying the second thing is the Alpha type which is we refer to that as the assertive the one thing that's more important to them than actually getting what they want is being respected and making sure that you know everything about what they're coming from so and it's a classic guy who's working for his boss and said you don't want my boss didn't do what I wanted to do but he heard me out or she heard me out I can live with the direction we're going as long as I know that my boss knows my opinion and so that the assertive type of negotiator it's really more important to them that they felt felt that they conducted themselves respected respectably that you respected them and that you knew what they were coming from and once they know those things they'll actually soften up on what they want if they feel disrespect to the prior be more frustrated and angry and right demanding right right right right so you guys are very demanding what they're really saying to you sub subtle is I want you to know how important this is to me right and what you know how important I am so how do you meet that person just come to them with respect or with Mario you could say look you you're you're impressive you're phenomenal you've thought it's all out this is very yeah I mean clearly you know where you're coming from you know what you want I'm lucky to be talking to you at all right I mean if we ride to sit down with Donald Trump I would in fact be lucky to be in the same room with him that'd be the first thing I'd say to him I'd say struck is he an American icon you know you you're the symbol of American business certainly in New York City yeah you know stroking her ego it's not a bad thing one of the what and you know it's a version of empathy because that's how they see themselves and you know the the emotional recognition like an emotional currency is not going to solve every deal I just don't want to try to solve any deal with money what I could have solved it with emotional currency I'm saving my money with emotional empathy currency intelligence right my blood is too important to me to waste it what I could buy something with satisfaction mmm so yeah I mean I'm enormous ly tight with my dog and there's so many people or especially men in business SEOs I feel like there's a lot of alpha men who are trying to get what they want and so somehow they'll they'll lose money because they're not able to have empathy or they're not able to whatever they're not able to drop their ego yeah a lot of a lot of money's left over pay on the other table over stuff like that yeah or what they value themselves out like prices the most of price is the most emotional term in a negotiation because you value yourself based on price but if I can get you to value yourself in another way put your the magazine cover we struggie on some other way they used to be you get Donald Trump at any magazine you wanted to if you put a motor cover you know imagine the right time and that used to be his deal if you want to do an article on Donald Trump the deal was he made the cover and and then he would knock himself out for the people doing the articles oh yeah on access anything answering questions imagine how valuable his time was they got a cover to the magazine anyway I put somebody on it right you know now that rating something that costs them nothing right and he's giving them dynamic interviews and he's promoting him hard and he's sharing with everyone right everywhere and he interests dance so you you know you buy Donald Trump with emotional recognition so what are the characteristics that make a great negotiator in your field and also how do those translate into the business and relationship world just in general outside of well let the other side go first you know most people have our so so they're burning with their argument here's why you should make this deal and they've got that memorize and and they're not gonna listen to a word you say till they get it out so trying to talk to them is really like trying to talk to a paranoid schizophrenic alright because they're rehearsing their speech in their hand and their logic and so they just you just can't get through to him mmm so you let him go you let him go first and another guy Ned Colletti former GM of the Dodgers friend of mine here at a phenomenal negotiation he's net lectured at in my class at USC also you know and that always likes to let the other side go first you know he did the Barry Bonds deal he's done a ton of deals across the board and Ned says well you know in a two-hour phone call there's gonna be 90 seconds of solid gold where my the person I'm talking to based on changes that they made in their tone of voice and the adjectives that they used he's got an instinct for it he couldn't he couldn't identify you sorry say there's 90 seconds to saw it gold and I'd say what is that alright and we talked it through this as well yeah it's gonna be a change in a tone of voice it's gonna be a different kind of adjectives so Ned wants you to go first because he wants to know what's gonna take to make the deal what they want right yeah well these waters learning for or how they characterize what they have and what they're not saying to may be exactly right what someone has failed to say he's offered a lot more important than what they have said which is why I give it a little thought in advance all right what they're gonna what are they gonna say if they if they've got this so I I actually like to look for more of what they haven't said what's glaringly missing and that's gonna take I'm gonna need you to walk through it a couple of times before that jumps out of me mmm okay okay who are the most difficult people to work with then would you say it's the Alpha people or you say it's the uncertain people or what type of people are hard to work negotiation with you know you're talking about a little bit of a type match that hasn't has a tendency it's a little bit based on how bad I want to make the deal like I don't like liars hmm or I don't like the most difficult people to work with in the long run or people who haven't thought anything through which is as bad as a liar only their hearts not in the wrong place they don't know what they want right civically or they don't know how they're gonna make they don't know how they're gonna get this done which is again we go over and over again I go over and over again yes there's nothing without how like in the person who thinks like the yes is gonna make a deal well yes it's not gonna make a deal because you got to have how mmm how we gonna put this together and someone who doesn't think things through a lot of times they're actually kind of dysfunctional on their own side so they're big promises they can't keep and they have no idea they can't keep those promises right and so when they take your deal you think you've done a deal with them they take it back to that company they're coming I was like now we're not doing this it's a stupid idea we can't do this sure and that happens a lot I think in a private sector I've heard from a number of companies that fully fifty percent of the deals that they make that don't go through he killed internally because somebody cut a deal for them and they took it back to the company the company says no that that violates our Terms and Conditions right we can't deliver on that basis so you're dealing with someone who just has no doesn't have clue as to what's going on on there such a lot of people like that when you're making a business deal what do you recommend as the amount of time to consider the deal before saying yes let's do it like here's the deal points here's what you want here's what I want okay should we sign it right away should we give it 24 hours should we take it to our team should it be a week you know what's like kind of a standard you think and unless you've got something in line ahead of time company name was a Black Swan group because we believe there's black swans in every negotiation which is something you didn't know that as soon as you found out it's gonna change all the prey the deal gotcha so you sit out down at the table to find out the unknowns huh and you it's impossible to research all the unknowns plus a lot of the unknowns I'll find a lot faster if I just ask you right and I could research for two weeks something that I may be able to get you to tell me about it ten minutes for example what do you mean something you want to ask oh I'm doing I'm speaking to a lot for a longtime client and they have another cup firm that I've been affiliated with coming of doing a different block what I found out they were doing that block I couldn't subtly reach back through my network to find out what the competing slash partnership firm of mine is what they're charging or I can just flat-out I said well I need to get the information a lot of information you got to get by not asking you got to trigger it you know the phrase ask good questions it's really get good information and a lot of times you won't tell me stuff if I ask but if I act like I already know or if I there are other ways hostage negotiators trigger information without asking questions and hostage negotiators get that information to make you feel good about giving it at the same time so give me an example either in a hostage or business deal what that kind of trigger could be well it's gonna be it's gonna be so sort of a statement like I have I say look I'm sure my my competing companies charge you twice as much as I am oh and then they'll tell you the answer that water correctly Oh actually now it's the same or actually you're getting a better deal never underestimate the size desire to correct you Wow because it makes people feel powerful and smart you know you're gonna want to feel smarter than me one of my clients is negotiating a deal for a commercial office building in South Carolina and it's it's almost a hundred percent occupancy it's at a mixed-use historic area so it means that the building can't be knocked down and nobody can build it because it's an historic area and so the building is basically impossible to replace in its owner percent occupancy it makes no sense of sellable ting so they're genuinely thinking why is the seller selling first of all you can't ask why because why makes people defensive if I look at you and I say why did you wear a black shirt you know it's the thought it's gonna be like do I got to defend the blacks why I'm yeah so you need to find out why we can't ask white because it makes people too boss what would you ask there well then again you don't want to ask at all because if you're smarter you change your white why is the what's and it's more likely the respondents saying you know what's making the seller wanna sell so you know what is causing them to do them not why are they selling but instead what my student did was he said well seems to me the sellers selling a cash cow because of a disbelief in the market fundamentals in the future that ability now let me correct you and this is why I'm doing exactly huh and the other side would like not only yeah they get they got a couple buildings that are underwater now I don't I can't imagine a real estate agent answer that question ever I mean this is this is highly confidential all right the prior to hear from you know my cell is desperate for money is is what they what the answer was but because it was a correction and people love to correct they'll correct you without thinking it through it's an involuntary response the desire to sound smarter right you would be right and correct you which is a burning desire and most people because it makes me feel smart more powerful hmm and I'll seize every opportunity to feel smart or more power for you at the table Josh it's like a chess it's emotional chess I love this motion and how do women and men comparison ago she ators as counter as counter power to see they're against each other or woman man woman woman man man is there a difference seeing I think a powerful woman negotiate a woman who's really good at negotiation she's almost unstoppable Wow and I think that the reinforcement the societal reinforcement is constantly trying to pound men into being better negotiators and constantly trying to pound women away from it and I think that I think that the step from sympathy to empathy is a shorter step and women are socialized to be sympathetic and I don't think they're you know whether or not it's nature or nurture I know there's a lot more pressure society and culture II culturally for women to be like that and I in my class women pick my style of negotiation up faster than a minute and the women to go to my class start cutting bigger and better deals faster than the men do in business or in life or and just in both gotcha so in in in my view I think like after they graduated they go on to do well in the class okay you got you got to negotiate with skin in the game in my class and almost all of my students are rising star business executives so mock negotiations they're making morons what you're saying no and the real act on my stuff and put it in real life why you're in my class and you got to write about it Wow and when you know I've got everything from a billion-dollar Wall Street transaction people in my class use the tools for I get a a USC get a lot of commercial real estate transaction Wow a lot of people buying commercial real estate that are that are working on MBA so I've got a lot of those transactions got you know my favorite my favorite way to say no which I got you know the how question before uh-huh the favorite way to say no was how am I supposed to do that just real calm deference there's great power and deference you know that's and that's what I did in kidnappings bank robberies everything how am I supposed to do what if they say I don't care figure it out or she's done well then you know that you've pushed them as far as you can and that means you got to pivot to something else now that and and that's actually where you want to get to because the strategy of negotiation is find out you want to max every time if you can and the only way to max that is to find out that I've hit you to the full limit without making you angry enough that you slam your hands down and walk away because even your reaction when someone or you shoot someone you reaction to this now I was like look you got to do it or things are gonna go back and it was a one of my one of my students here in town is negotiating for for a luxury client to rent a house in Hollywood Hills and you know 20 grand a month was a rental mmm and they were trying to get the rental or they were trying to lease try to get it you know Joe and so the person said if 20 grand a month right yeah and and it's for very well his clients extremely wealthy so that you know and you negotiated wealthy market the other side think she got all the money at home and so he just said how am I supposed to do that and they said okay well then they shifted the terms and he cut the price and he moved a bunch of other terms around then they negotiated for a while longer and then he said again on the price this is how my client how's my supposed to pay that and the ruler says if you climb one size he's kind of packed man you got a deal when the other side says if you want it you have to do it mm-hmm which will come out usually after the second third time that you said how am I supposed to do that knock it down a little more on a car a real-estate deal whatever it is now now you've maxed that time now you move on to something else so you make the deal but you needed to know that you pushed it as far as you could have mm-hmm without them storming out without them saying Chris Voss is not any fun to deal with I would never do business with him again then how am I supposed to do that in a deferential way they still feel in control they're not you're not saying screw that's too much like what are you out of your mind you're right and if you don't make the deal at that point that what they say after the fact they say you know I didn't make a deal but I deal with them again mm-hmm you know they're all right they're all right to to deal with could they get the lease there how much again again how much you know they they knocked it down to less than 20 and then they got some softness on some other terms now and then they cut the deal for that there yeah I wish I was paying 20 grand a month for a lot of money for a house 20 grand a month Wow that's a rich rich student yeah that are involved in a lot of lucrative deals yeah yeah so you're saying what is the importance of empathy and a negotiation when I'm hearing you say it's is extremely important and that's why you feel like a woman would be a better negotiator in general because they have more empathy in general or well it's the shortest most people have confused sympathy with empathy okay what's the difference empathy is I can see you're upset it's just identifying how you feel sympathy is like wow I feel bad for you feeling sorry or bad for someone it's in but sympathy it's it's it is in fact it doesn't help anybody like I don't care if you feel bad for me right I could care less so sympathy is not a good thing sympathy is a weakness as a negotiator negotiation empathy is a good thing empathy and tactical empathy okay we've really taken a pass just empathy in general mm-hmm like we've been doing this long enough that I know what I'm looking for before we sit down I know that I need to find out the stuff that our negative emotions for you because I need to get them out of the way of the deal and I need to find out the stuff that our positive emotions for you because I want to reinforce that to make the deal and I know that the negatives are gonna have be a bigger deal to you than a positive so so if can you give an example this in a business deal what that would well if I don't if I don't like doing business with Donald Trump at all then if he get if he's annoying me to the point where I get enough satisfaction keeping money out of his hands I won't make that deal or if I'm in a business deal where the other side and I've thought about this like you annoy me so much that I don't want you to get any of that I'll take less money to keep you out right how do would you eliminate something like that that negative in the deal so that you could well then then say like if I think that you're negative towards being able to say look I'm sure it seems like I'm greedy here if I say to you like I'm sure I'm gonna seem very greedy here that sets me up to ask for a lot of money because there's actually science that backs this up now identifying a negative diminishes that every time so if I'm gonna make it get me grabbed for the money you're gonna think I'm greedy and I need to get that out of the way because if I'm too greedy you're gonna you're gonna get some satisfaction by keeping me from the money even if you don't get it right and so I'm gonna say look I'm gonna seem real greedy here I'm gonna seem like I'm very self-centered and that I'm greedy and then I'm not looking out for you at all and then I'll just let it set and you'll take a lot more from me a lot a lot you you'll allow me to take more if I've said that in upfront really because I've diminished that your thought is like I mean how I can never seem to greed and when I make that grab you're gonna say well he was honest with me told me you wanted a lot of money he didn't try to say hey look let's do win-win deal they give me all the money right because if I say I want to do win-win day with you I'm like hey I'll be nice to you look out for you and then you try to take ninety and give me ten that's like no it's not a good deal yeah but when you say it up front then you're more likely to get the deal yeah and get more or whatever you want right I'm gonna seem very honest to you but you're gonna like that I was honest with you had you gonna say after the fact like look he was on I always knew where he was coming from I didn't like the deal but I did it anyways or whatever yeah huh okay but yeah that's crazy it's that's just this stuff that we found out the works regularly we had talked about another one we talked about the book there was a multi-million dollar deal going on Washington DC the subcontractor was very unhappy with the general contractor and female negotiator and they were getting ready to lose everything and they sat down and they said you know I'm sure we seem like the big guy that doesn't care about you I'm sure we seem like the big general contractors trying to take complete advantage of the sub and not appreciate how hard you working for this and not care about your future at all and she turned that deal around when she was done she took an additional million of profit on herself and her company and the other side liked him more so not only did they increase the profit but they had a better relationship this is why being honest upfront or empathetic or I can see how you might feel that we're gonna do this at tactical approach while there are negatives here we're gonna address the negatives up Friday we're gonna make them go away address them up front most people don't want to do it I already did that do you know when I did that to you when I've already done it remember we talked about doing the one-on-one role play yeah I said it was gonna be armed that's true you set it up front yeah and I always I always do that every single time the same way because if you do the role play with me no matter how it goes I you know you're gonna feel like you were beaten beaten up right but she told me I was gonna be right and you can't come out if I said shocking horrible you know you can't ever say well he's saying Bank me you know he caught me off guard and right and then then what I always do then I defuse a negative and then I pitched the positive and most people pitch the positive and hopefully negative will go away they sandwich the negative positive negative positive say I don't like say which at all start with the negative thought with the negative and I said and you will learn more than anyone else so how do you do that in a business deal where you start with okay I'm sure you think we're horrible we're trying to get more than we should or will you don't walk it to the table you could make a really educated guess on what the other side is gonna think of you if you're a big business dealing with a small business if you David and Goliath you know that before you get to the table right flip side around if you new to the industry and you try to work your way into the industry how do you look to somebody who's been in the industry you look like an intruder mm-hmm you know I'm sure I look like an intruder I'm sure I look wet behind the ears I'm sure I look like I don't have any experience in this area because if I'm new to the industry and I'm talking to somebody's been in the industry for a while what I want is money you've got I want a piece of your pie it's a nice big pie here and I want to take a big bite I'm right if I'm new to the industry and so on and and you it doesn't take a genius to talk it through and go like yeah somebody who's new the industry's trying to hammer the wind I got no respect for people who've already been there and I'll say that no you know I'm sure I'm sure look like an intruder here so how do you how do you frame the positive afterwards then you go look like an intruder but and then I'll say and there's money to be made here that wasn't there otherwise because if I'm new to the industry especially if I'm bringing a deal in I'm bringing you found money mmm the worst thing I could do is say hey look I got some fine money for you all right let me bring this to you sure you're gonna be like you bringing me nothing I'm fine all right I can pay my bills before you walked in the door it allows you to pay my bills so but I want to make that point so I'll sit somewhere I'm going I'm gonna say you know I'm sure I'm look like an intruder an appreciative of what the end of you you've been here for a thousand years you know I don't know anything mmm it's always lead with the negative or the elephant identify the elephant that's exactly right doesn't a negative but the the the elephant in a room identified an elephant always gets smaller every time you called the elephant in room out again and there's a subtle difference to never deny it like five reefs and I'm sure it seemed like an a to turn you I don't want you to think I'm gonna true her that's a denial that's gonna say I am an intruder yeah and your minds yeah I'm coming into this new I'm coming to this yeah denial magnifies negatives there's subtle difference between denial and observation mm and if I say look man I don't want you to think I'm gonna treat her here I don't know what you're thinking what Biondi years and I don't know what I'm doing immediately you're thinking that correct I denied it hmm and that's why that subtle difference is night and day in negotiations that subtle difference makes all of it I had I'm doing when I'm working on my book deal I don't know my age I don't listen to this or not but I oh really my agent one time because I'm a bad client if somebody's negotiating on my behalf because at some point in time I'm gonna jump in with no warning of course like listen to you this is where I was supposed to be done yeah yeah yeah I can't I only sit back for so long and so I'm getting ready to have jumping in the middle of this price negotiation with a potential writer with the writer okay you know before I came across tall tall as a superstar yes he is the best business book writer on a plane he's right and and so before I came across tall when working with us trying to get some going with another guy and I jumped in in the middle of it with no morning without telling my agent so I did it in an email and then I constructed an email to my agent at the same time now if somebody's supposed to be keeping her mouth shut or negotiation the name you might call them might be a loose cannon okay somebody who pipes up when they're supposed to shut up sure and they don't check with anybody else loose cannon so I said I craft an email to my agent at the same time and I first I wrote a role in the first time I'll admit I said I don't want you to think I'm a loose cannon and then I went back and edited it and I said I'm sure I seem like a you know he couldn't deny it right you weren't denying it you were but this is a predictable negative she seemed like a loose I said I I'm sure I seem like a loose cannon sent him the email as soon as he read it he sent me back I know I don't I always respect a bold move Wow so I'd I'd call the negative out it doesn't take a genius to figure it out and just call it out identify the elephant in the room don't deny if I to say no I'd marry no elephant a room rabbi yes there is sure and and he is responded immediately we part of negotiating with the publisher as well if you let him do the job no he you know what you need an agent for is really understand terms and conditions yeah and any a great source of Intel and so when the deal came through plus I don't try to get every last dollar and I don't try to get every last percentage you wanted to be a win-win well I want I want you to work it to do business with me in the future if I cut you throat you're not gonna want to continue to do business or if they don't make out what they thought they wanted to and then right Yeah right so yeah in fact even though I don't use the words win-win yeah why not because of just because I first of all it's it's shorthand for whip when hmm so only only only two people really actually will throw that out of a negotiation someone who needs to be a stronger negotiator or it's a thousand it's almost a thousand percent not you know if somebody says win-win to me early on I know they're communicating to me they're gonna try to make this deal without giving me any money really I just don't think that way when I say it though but maybe that's well you're naturally collaborative guy yes and you got a lot of you got a lot of non-tangible as to throw on the table to make it a great deal right and a lot of people that haven't thought of those non tangibles or non-monetary stuff to make it a great deal right they just know that they got no money right and if you approach the table you got no money how you gonna make that deal a lot of people think well I got a let's make it win-win all right and I'm so wonderful to deal with right right you'll just be famous if you deal with gotcha gotcha okay so how what do you say instead of that I want to make this good for you and good for me well also I start I start throwing up stuff that really that's really good for me that's not not gonna cost you a dime and what a brainstorm with you like crazy as much as I can and then I'll get you brainstorming and I was I'm in a discussion today to possibly go to a conference in Chicago and I already know in advance they got like nothing for fees right like yeah so and so and we start brainstorming and the young lady I'm gonna phone with she says well is there anybody that might come to the conference that you would want to meet and I and my thought was I don't know who's at the conference but I do know I think a really a profession that wants to get better at negotiation is not afraid to admit it our baseball scouts a little foam or I'm gonna play with a baseball scout just yesterday and he say like look is a scout about sign of prospects on these million dollar deals we could have a several hundred thousand dollars swing in a given deal I'm not a negotiator I was scout so it occurs to me these Scouts are out there trying to find talent and then they have never had time to become better negotiators except my father finding out the hard way you learned my stuff really fast I gave his guy copy of my book I said you don't want read the first 10 pages if you can't use it then you know you don't ever have to talk to me again mm-hmm the first 10 pages you learned some stuff you can use right away so I'm gonna phone with this girl for this conference that I had ago like all right look I think I could I could really help out professional baseball organizations to their Scouts maybe not their GM's who were doing the hundred million dollar deals but put me in a room with the guys that are doing a million dollar deal and I said so if you know anybody for the Cubs and the White Sox just give me an introduction and we'll talk about it that'd be worth me going to this conference for nothing if I get a good introduction to something to leave me to business you know and she's like oh she said I'd you know I'll check into that cuz she's right there yeah they're running a big conference and and it's it's very much good for Chicago and it's good for business people and most professional sports franchises come to know that what's good for the community is good for that hmm so then it becomes in effect when wind rises don't use those terms gotcha gotcha I like it though how do you become the smartest person in the room you know look for emotions first emotions yeah you know what if I figure out what's driving you like if I tell what you're passionate about and you're passionate about getting better and you're passionate about helping other people mm-hmm and your passion about healthy competition and you are fueled by a great feeling of achievement of competition at the same time and you're more likely to do stuff and engage in activities that fuel both of those things at the same time right and the openly competitive people or either openly competitive because competition makes it feel good or it's a defensive thing mm-hmm and you need to know the difference between somebody who attacks you because they're being defensive and afraid they're gonna get hurt they're very fear driven yes and a person that's attacking you because it is very competitive and a very competitive type just likes competition makes a great ally whereas a person who's attacking you out of fear they're not good long-term allies cuz they're gonna they're gonna they're gonna feel at some point in time they got to screw you before you screw them Wow it's so understanding the distinctions of those drivers those two people look almost exactly the same okay I dated I had a phenomenal social relationship with a woman who was in real estate in town three or four years ago and she was she was very she was fear of loss overwhelmingly fear of loss driven in relationships and business and everything right she was she was always just horrified that she was getting cheated and and she didn't have great she didn't have great business partnerships she was very successful but not a lot of great partners mmm and that's a it's a slight change you know there's a two-millimeter change there between the competitive because I like competition or the aggressive assaultive because I'm afraid of getting cheated and I need to let those differences because it's gonna tell me what kind of a party you're gonna be how do you know as differences just by being aware listening and yeah you know you the emotional intelligence comes to you really fast what you start looking for it right that's why that some people are really good at cold reads mmm one of the classes I'm teaching at Georgetown right now there's a really brilliant young lady who's Afghani and she loves a cold read you know starting to make educated guesses about somebody real mink yes and she's talking to a cab driver the other day and the cab driver turns around and looks at it says do my wife said you ha ha ha because she guessed she gets a guy's daughter's name she guess a lot of things that were accurate about his daughter and his wife just based on a quick interaction Wow for her it was a game which is another thing if it becomes fun for you you pick it up faster right so you could get really good at this as soon as you start trying to look and it's amazing it'll also go away quickly too got to watch the muscle yeah atrophy exactly right you got it you got a train on it well what's a word you'd never say in a negotiation well the worst thing to say business deals are personal relationships here and the pitfall was coming on whose mouth that's coming out of like do you ever say no or do you ever say you know I might need to say no I'll probably I like to let know out a little at a time which is actually how am I supposed to do that is the first way that I say no that's no without saying no right that's that saying no to what's on the table but not no to you let's figure if we can work this out they may come a point in time when I when I say no said and done but I'm gonna need to explore every option there I mean I don't say here and yes is a bad thing to hear so don't say yes yeah yes yes it enough selves I would much rather say you know okay I'll do it I'd love I love to say you went because when you win you're gonna perform hmm yes there's nothing without how I need you to perform at a top level you perform at a higher level when you feel like you win if I if I hear if you look at me and we make it daily say okay well that's a resigned to okay and we're gonna run into trouble when we go to implement cuz the minute anything bad could happen by you by your inaction you know there's a phrase never be mean to someone who could hurt you by doing nothing hmm which nearly everybody can't hurt you by doing nothing right oh so saying okay I'll do it right or yes you went are you in right right so I want you to feel like you want you win so we got the better end of the deal yeah cuz are you are you gonna hold to the deal if you got the best end of the deal of course I love you could bracket but awesome yeah I got the better end huh right so you win okay I'll do it you win you can do both of them together if I said that's good cuz you want if you say it it's bad to me because you feel beat mmm-hmm I don't want you to I don't want you to feel beaten right all right which is one of the real big problems with negotiation because since I've been getting helping people get better at it like I get more stories of guy says let me tell you about this deal I had them over a barrel there was nowhere for them to go you know for intense bonus was I took them hostage well I gave it to you that the person they beat was as passive-aggressive as possible on the implementation of that deal but if you look a lot of money on the table didn't feel good about right huh right it's always make the other person feel like they got the better end of the deal right right they won and yeah they won and it was their idea it was their idea I like your idea I'll do it something like that yeah okay yeah I mean that that's really good and so that's why the one usually the one word ain't of yes and no those are also frequently misunderstood hmm you know the Sri Canada yes is there's commitment confirmation counterfeit huh and most people are used to getting lured into a trap with yes you know would you like to make more money is it a true this is the off season you know whatever setup yes sir it okay yeah you know what's leading someplace yes one of my one of my students is on a honeymoon and he's want to get a an upgrade on his bungalow and it's the offseason in his in his resort now what they typically do is they cut prices on on their basic rooms Hahnemann sweets but not the honeymoon lines and anybody knows they're all vacant now what do you just want to cut price on a regular room he wants a honeymoon suite and he starts out the conversation was like you know isn't it true this is the offices the general manager knows is a trap there it's more than say the guy starts going sideways on him immediately he didn't say yes right he didn't want to say yes cuz he knows that yes is commitment and yes is probably a trap and he knows I don't know where you're going with this but you going someplace that's what he said yeah then what happened well then and so then my student realized that you know he fell into this just yes trap thing mmm so he had to kind of he had to kind of get back out of it and they started talking instead of trying to get yeses and noes I don't we started describing a situation it started showing up a little bit yeah well I'm sure you know a lot of guys don't like me coming we want a room we don't want to pay anything for it you get so many tourists that are in here in the offseason and they're cheap that's why they're here in the offseason anyway cuz I cheap to start with and it won't pay anything for anything anyway and now the managers appreciate where guys come from he had said leading with the negative right he ends up getting the upgrade really yeah free cuz he built a relationship and yeah the guy the guy the guy's got an empty room yeah never be mean to somebody could hurt you by doing nothing not giving you the if the room is doing nothing mm-hmm you know you want this guy to give you a favor and he doesn't own the hotel and those rooms are normally vacant anyway so his owner whoever owns the hotel they're not mad at him because those rooms are empty they expected her to be anything yeah so he's got options you know ultimately you want to make the pitch like you know you give me that upgrade I'm gonna be a fan for life I'm gonna tell her tomorrow day tell all my friends about this something I've done for like the last 10 years a friend of mine told me this line that he's like you know if you ever want an upgrade if you ever won like something better in the deal use this line and I swear I've been using it maybe it's been wrong but I'd love your opinion I say what's the chance you can help me with this all right so that's it that's a what question to start what's the chance who thinks about that that I like first of all to what question yeah and secondly what's the chance you can upgrade me you're elevating the person when you ask it for out so you're giving them power right right the opportunity to have power right yeah so there's and and I don't know that I change that sense at all I might say in advance like look this is really gonna seem greedy of me mm you know says you can't you can't leave me with the negative ad lead with a negative he if you try to call out a negative that's not there you won't plant it if you try to deny a negative that's not there you plant that baby and that's why you have to know the difference between a denial in a straight observation and knows that's a subtle difference because you're good you're probably gonna want to say before you ask the guy for a discount you're probably gonna say this guy's gonna think I'm cheap and I'm greedy I don't want them to think that so if you mentioned it all you get instinct to say look like I don't want to I want you I don't want you think I'm cheap and greedy here that's a denial that plans so I bet you might think that I'm being a little gray shirts I'm sure come across I'm being greedy but what's the chance you can help you can upgrade me yeah yeah you can support me and getting up and so if you're asking for an upgrade is if you were vain the guy's gonna know that's not greedy you want him you want him thinking no you what I'm saying though those a great answer because when somebody says no they'd just protected and defended themselves like it's ridiculous you'll be stunned that what people are willing to say no - I mean just absolutely stunned I'm coaching a guy who's working on a new position with the city of Beverly Hills and they they're constructing since it's a new position he sees his job descript and he wants to take but it's problematic the way they put it together yeah and he says how do I negotiate with these guys because this job district description is not gonna make it work and I said look look look at him across the table and say do you want me to fail and their answers no but I said well look at how this is set up you know I'd love to have this job but he instead of saying he wants to sit down with him and say hey look this is never gonna work the way you guys designed this right you can't say that that can't say that they're coming from defense mode or something right right right now there he goes it away well you say no because when you say you do you want me to fail I mean it that's that's there to help you yeah I say no they protect themselves you then come to the other guys rescue and when you you punch it a lot of really powerful emotional triggers are when you say to somebody you want me to fail hmm and and one way or the other I mean we try to sit down and think of the most ridiculous question that they would never say yes to like if at the end of a negotiation if I can't if my one of my last things I'm always gonna say is like if you can't budge at all I'm st. all right we'll look seems like you're powerless here Oh nobody wants to say yes oh wow he's like there's nothing you could do it seems like a completely powerless here and they'll put you on hold they'll find a way to help seems like you're powerless you can't help me it sounds like you're powerless here right no we every would say yesterday Wow that is powerful do you use that a lot when you're at the individual or anything or something in need of any deal if we haven't come to agreement that that I'm happy with that'll be the last thing I'll say it seems like there's nothing I could say and it seems like you're powerless it seems like nothing that you could say to them to get what you need right or for them to move deal points and it seems like you're powerless right they're powerless right oh that's powerful so yeah we allowed of people have cut deals by they thought it was completely in the tank they're actually just trying to end positively it's really it's critical to end positively hmm so give me one little extra thing then if you know they want to end positively not like yeah I'm powerless here so let's do the deal yeah okay I'll throw in this or I'll give you this yeah like I make it I make it a regular part like my credit cards almost all them got fees mm-hmm and I called every year ask him to waive the fee yeah and and they almost always do and tell the guy says well we waive the fee on you the last five years a row it sounds like you're powerless yeah I wanna say yeah I'll say that I'll say it sounds like you're absolutely powerless here sounds like you're nothing nothing you could do and they'll put me on hold let me see what I could do anything was to be powerless oh wow that's great let's finish with the final few questions make sure you guys get the book here this is fascinating never split the difference negotiating as if your life depended on it some powerful insights in this interview so far and I know you have a framework for negotiating in the book final few questions what are you most grateful for in your life recently yeah I'm just I'm grateful though my son still is in business with me you know my son can tolerate me I brought across nearly everyone that I wrote across since I've been in LA I'm just happy in one way or another that they've come into my life mmm I got a tan I'm grateful I know it's gonna sound like a cliche I'm grateful to be sitting here right now I think I think this when I start finding out about you know cool stuff that you have done I appreciate it and how much positive positivity and help you bring in people I mean I think that I think that's incredible you appreciate people who listen Podcast are getting phenomenal value yeah I appreciate it see how he's ending on a positive see how good this is I appreciate it yeah there's a there's a question we we asked at the end called the three truths and this is if it's the last day for you many many years from now your books have been erased all your techniques have been deleted from time the information you put out to the world is gone for whatever reason and you have a piece of paper and your great-great-grandchildren comes up to you and says we write down the three things you know to be true about everything you learned in business relationships school FBI everything in life you've learned coming down to three simple truths that you would pass on to us that's all the things we know to live our lives by what would be those three truths yeah be generous it'll come back to you much more than you could ever imagine yeah work hard be generous work hard be honest I mean anything any of the opposite so those are just damaging shortcuts just really damaging shortcuts you could so yeah that'd just be generous work hard be honest I like it simple and effective I like those things make sure you guys get this book never split the difference where can we connect with you online Black Swan Ltd dot-com BL ack SWA n ltd like limited calm we are not ballerinas yeah we but we you know we're very add to we like to have a lot of fun yeah yeah great athletes so they are and you're at vast negotiation on twitter yes are you on the Instagram and the Facebook as well Black Swan Ltd love Facebook haven't plugged into Instagram yet I would imagine we will soon as Savannah dragged myself into the 21st in perfect and again it's a former FBI top hostage negotiators field-tested tools for talking anyone into or out just about anything so this is extremely important in terms of personal relationships family relationships intimate relationships friendships business relationships right any type of relationships this is going to support you I think it's a must read and understand if you want to have peace in your life because negotiation is a constant thing that we go through all the time especially when you have kids all these different things you're always going to be negotiating something right and you might as well be good at it hey might as well enjoy it it's a Boswell enjoy and have fun with it so before I ask the final question Chris I wanna acknowledge you for a moment for your incredible skill set that you've developed over the years from all the cases you've dealt with and and served on a huge impact to make sure that people get away safely and people don't kill anyone and all these things that you've done as your work of the FBI and also for your service in helping so many of us entrepreneurs and become better entrepreneurs through teaching at USC and Georgetown is always in Georgetown and for coming out here and sharing a wealth of information I feel like I'm pretty good at negotiating but I feel like I don't know anything after doing this so I appreciate your wisdom all the years of your hard work and for bringing this to life because so many people need this thank you very much yeah final question is what's your definition of greatness Wow you know I think someone that would have had it was both true themselves and had an impact on their world because I think people basically really are good you know I don't think that we're by definition evil creatures so if you were if you were true to your nature then the impact that you have on the world is what the universe put you here for and so then you would if you true to your nature then like you should be you're phenomenal all right Chris boss thanks for coming on appreciate it my pleasure you see it hey guys lewis howes here and thanks so much for checking out this video in this interview I hope you loved it if you did make sure to leave a comment below and share this with your friends also I've got a huge announcement the summit of greatness is coming very soon if you love the school of greatness podcast if you love these interviews and you want more you want to connect with some of these speakers in person you want to connect with me and other people just like you who watch and listen to these interviews then make sure to sign up for the summit of greatness go to summit of greatness dot-com to learn more you can check out more about the video that we have that we created for the summit there's a link in the description below as well it's summit of greatness dot-com check it out right now I hope to see you there and again thanks so much for watching this video

Channel: Lewis Howes

Views: 595,936

Rating: 4.8776994 out of 5

Keywords: chris voss, never split the difference, lewis howes, the school of greatness, chrus voss interview 2016, chris voss negotiation, chris voss black swan, chris voss fbi, how to negotiate, chris voss interview, negotiation tips, negotiation skills, negotiation training, methods of persuasion, negotiation strategies, self help, self improvement, self development, personal development, inspiration, motivation, success habits, success advice, life advice, wisdom, success, wealth

Id: O_iKeiPhisw

Length: 77min 34sec (4654 seconds)

Published: Sun Sep 11 2016