5 Psychological Tricks To READ ANYONE! | Evy Poumpouras & Chris Voss

curiosity is wonderful so let them tell you stuff ask questions because you're curious and then you'll get more information rather than i found out more about the guy sitting on a plane next to me that he's told anybody in 20 years with this same kind of an exercise if i walk into most rooms like i had a show last night for 85 people in san antonio texas i knew every single person's name in that room every single person's first name how do we all lie all human beings and is it okay to lie all people lie the research varies some research says some people will lie 10 times within a conversation 10 times like in one cent or it could be a 30 minute conversation hi how are you i'm great how are you me while i just had a fight with my significant other so that would be a lie then also lying by omission is a big thing people think that that i have to say the lie for it to be a lie but i can tell you a story and leave something out that changes the context of the story so now the story is not accurate i mislead you that is a lie and actually the number one way people lie is by omission because most people don't like to lie they're not comfortable with it you know it's not natural to us it's work it's a lot of it's a lot of work it's very hard because you gotta remember what you said too right you gotta remember it you have to stick to it because you may have to repeat that lie again later in time and it really is a credibility killer it's just not worth doing and so it's a lot of work to do cognitively so it is actually easier to leave something out i don't feel as bad and then when you ask me louis i say oh you know i forgot to tell you that part and then you lose credibility if i lie like that i may not lose as much it's when people outright lie and then so you probably did some outright lies did you do this yes or no uh no i didn't do it or how about this no i didn't do it oh no that's like one of the indicators um when people say um their body doesn't match up with doesn't match what they say so they'll say no yes yeah and so you'll see the body will do this like the body's in conflict with what they're saying it doesn't happen to everybody it's everybody everyone is so unique and so different and i think what popular culture likes to do is say everybody will do this everybody will do that and that's just it's false and there's no easy way to read people it's work it's studying the person understanding human behavior knowing that person paying attention to their mannerisms so like when i speak i i use illustrators when i speak so if i'm telling you a story i went here last night i did this i saw that now you ask me something you know evie is this your favorite podcast which it is i don't know right but i start you know i put my hands down and i i change my mannerisms now i'm stoic i'm not moving i'm in fact people who do lie tend to move less actually because i'm working i'm working this is work so i'm not i'm thinking i'm focused so there's all those indicators that do help you kind of filter out what's going on with the other person so using body language and being more expressive hides the lie if you are lying if you're usually not all like i want to be you know because some people that don't use a lot of maneuvers they're always stoic sure and so that's just what they are all the time but if you have someone who is illustrative who's always talking with their hands and now they you ask them a question that they're uncomfortable with or they want to lie to you about you'll see less movement in the body what would be three questions if you could only ask three questions to a human being to figure out if they're telling a lie or telling the truth how would you start those three questions what would they be ted t e d tell me explain describe and then i would fill in the rest tell me tell me what you did last night rather than who did you out with last night or were you with sam last night so tell me what you did last night uh explain to me how important this relationship is to you describe to me what you want in this business partnership those questions allow people to tell a story so if you really want to read someone out read somebody you want them to tell you a story so the more i can get you to tell me a story i hear you i'm watching you i'm getting your mannerisms down everything but then you're also telling me what is important to you what is a value to you and then when you do that now i don't have to sit there and guess and figure out oh how should i start my business pitch with lewis you already told me the things you like and so i can come in and speak to you in an intelligent way rather than trying to guess what you know what to say so ideally when you start a conversation and this could be for anything it's not just catching a lie this is really just trying to start a conversation ted ted tell me explain describe you start big you get people talking and telling you stuff even though you're like i want to know this specific thing but if i ask the specific thing this person's going to shut down on me so i can't go straight for that so what you do is you narrow it you get closer you get you go from vague to you know more you know accurate to more accurate to then in the end you get to that direct question because you've worked them to that point so for example if you had a case where somebody was murdered or killed right and you had a suspect you wouldn't say did you kill her you would never say that in fact that would you wouldn't get there till like maybe two hours into the conversation that's like the you you you get there it's over time because it's it's it's a serious thing it's an ugly word and you know i might not even say did you kill her did you hurt her did you harm her did something happen and i would get you so i would never ask it that way you get the person to give you admissions like for example yes i was there i was at the house or yes i did this you know you want them to give you a little bit and then eventually you get more admissions more admissions you start to paint the picture and then you you never actually have to ask them did you kill they eventually tell you so you were at the scene you were there at the same time you were holding the knife they tell you all of it but you walk them you walk them through that process and so when you watch these tv shows or when you ask somebody a direct question and you want a direct answer and you don't get it this is why it's work it's a lot of work to connect with people read people and i think that's why and i think society makes it seem like do these three tricks and you'll have people eating out of your hand in it it doesn't work it's not true and this is why people struggle because they're looking for the easy way when it's really about human behavior the person across from you like understanding them being curious curiosity is wonderful so let them tell you stuff ask questions because you're curious and then you'll get more information rather than try trying to go for like exactly what you want to know and then the other thing too that helps with conversations is something called adaptability a lot of people don't have like if i have a co i have a conversation with you and i specifically want to know one thing but you want to tell me a whole other story around it people don't have the patience and so like no no no we're talking about something else like stick stick to the topic and when you do that you you break a rapport you hurt the conversation so it a part of it is being patient let them take you a little bit on a journey and then slowly you can bring them back to where you want but sometimes we come in so rigid no no i have to talk about this this is the topic and you're not able to adapt so adaptability is being is allowing a person to take you where they want to go letting somebody sit in the driver's seat for a little bit so you're telling me when my girlfriend is arguing with me about one thing but then doesn't want to address it and takes it around the uh the playground of all these other conversations i i get to listen to all those things to get it back to where i want to go to perhaps as opposed to baby let's just focus on the problem right here well it sounds actually like your girlfriend is actually more of an identity based person okay so there's instructional there's identity so if i'm talking to you and i want to tell you you know you want to tell me basically evie if you stop talking to this person your life will be easier right you know cut this person out of your life right and i'm like no i want to tell you how i feel no this makes me feel this way this makes me feel that way but you don't know and you're just kind of like all you have to do is get them out of your life cut this person out of your life or all you have to do is this one thing problem solved you are instructional let's just get to the point what do we got to do to fix it one two three done identity is i don't want to hear that i want to take you on a journey with me to tell you how i feel this person or when we are in that space this this means this person just wants to tell you how they're feeling they want to tell you about their identity what's happening is about their identity so they don't want she doesn't want your solution no she doesn't want you to tell you what to do she wants you to listen to her and so just it's not even about solving it right and so i think that's another place where we get stuck like here here's the solution and it's like no no i don't want that and you're like but you're telling me you have this problem if you just do this you're instructional their identity what are you i'm typically instructional i'm very like just tell me what i need to know i don't need to go through the circle but when i speak to other per people and i realize that their identity or in that moment they want to tell me this whole story and i'm just like dude all we got to talk about this one little thing problem solved i let them go wow if you have the patience it depends what the topic is but she's identity based so i think every time you talk with her if you see that she's like not wanting to get to the point and figure out the solution where she just wants to tell you about her feelings how this makes her feel or how this hurts her or you know if it's about her her identity then that's what she's doing it's not about the solution whether you were in a secret service doing an interview or an interrogation or in the real world now i guess that is the world but after now yeah um what are the social cues or psychological behaviors body language responses that people have before you take the polygraph test to know whether or not they're actually telling the truth what are those few things that you would see we talked about the body language are there other things that would happen social cues or it was interesting everybody would assume that the polygraph was the the lie detector like you just asked the question come on in have a seat louis let's hook you up did you steal when you were a kid you know did you steal that gum or did you steal that and then it just tells me everything and it doesn't really work that way like typically the the lie detector is the person so you sit across from a person you have a conversation and as we're discussing something let's say you're applying the u.s secret service we'll make you overcome okay give it to me and so we're asking you all these questions about your education your background um drugs whatever it is and let's say we get to i say to you louis did you ever steal anything and so now i look at are there any shifts or any changes do you change the direction [Laughter] people are usually not that obvious you know they're but you can see you can see something you can feel it it's also feeling people i think that gets dismissed quite a bit that it's not just see here you know it's like it's also you can feel another human being yeah you can you and it's intuitive and you sh we should allow that and listen to that more rather than shut that down but it would be you know if i would ask you that i would hear the way you responded did you respond similarly to all the other questions the same way is your you know ins let's say if i said louis did you ever you know i asked you all these other historical questions and you're like no no no and then i say louis did you have you ever stolen anything absolutely not so now something like that as small as that i may mark that i was like okay he said no no no for everything else but here he said absolutely not interesting why is it a bit more emphatic he cares more about either protecting something or that it actually isn't the truth he doesn't want that to be but i will notice that it's different that you did something different even if you um no it could be a very subtle thing or you might not give me anything there are some people and i've had those people where it's just like poker face all the way through some people but they'll i don't want to say they're professional liars but some people you know would come in especially if it was a criminal case and they're guarding their the truth really hard and you have to try to figure out what that is or some people come in and it's i swear to god god god knows i would never do such a thing those are usually red flags unless it's a culture or person who typically does it if so if they always say i swear to god i swear to my mom then it would be like look this is part of this person's natural language or maybe in their culture they refer to god quite a bit but if it's not and then you start doing that then again that's a red flag so that's what you're really looking for rather than we have some of these cookie cutter things it's like everybody does this everybody does that now are these things i'm talking about indicators they they are but you may do them and i may not i may do something else what do you do when you lie what do i do when i lie because we all lie at something right we do i do i do small or big my husband's like did you you know have a doughnut this morning no i didn't have it what do you lie about the most professional or personal and what in each each category maybe like if i'm mad because i i have i have a pretty i have a pretty bad temper so it's like oh no i'm fine you know and i i'll because sometimes i'll know i'm like you know i have a temper and sometimes i know i'm being irrational and i don't want to open up a whole conversation so i'll just be like no i'm i'm okay i'll leave it because i'll know it's me i'm trying to think what do i i lie about maybe work if it's a project i don't want to do but usually that's what you have agents and managers for because they do it for you sure they shut it down for you um i'm trying to think i mean we all lie but i try to keep it like usually for me it's like because i'm like a you know like donuts and i like things cookies like things so my husband's like a health fanatic so like how'd you eat today you know i was like oh this was okay i was pretty solid you know oh okay so he'll know what i'm trying to say is there such a thing as a person being radically honest all the time no i don't i've never i've not come across that but i think here's the thing it's okay to lie because have you ever been very very very honest maybe with a person and then felt afterward you know i don't you feel a bit exposed and you feel like you know i wish i didn't share this much with this person afterward you kind of have that remorse because we feel like it's a it's a protection mechanism i don't want to tell you everything about me i don't want to be an open book and so i may and it may not be a lie so by omission so in the meeting if somebody's pitching me a project or i'm talking talking about something i don't like it or i don't like the direction it's going i may not say i don't like this i might say thank you you know let me think about that meanwhile i want to say no way i'm not doing it that's terrible so that that technically would be a lie like you know what thank you and let me think about that but i know i can't respond the first way shuts people down that's why i feel like we hear people say say no you know being able to say no to people more so because a lot of us have to protect your time your space yes energy yeah and that's wonderful but don't say no find other ways to say no no is ugly no is mean no is hurtful so i can say thank you so much i'll let you know um i'm not really sure if i'm able to let me think on that find alternative ways to let people down why is that why not to preserve the relationship because when you say no to someone even it's a friend they might take it personally it stings right why are you saying no to me why do you have to stay like that you can say you can reject people in a thoughtful way in a professional way and it just it depends like do you care about the relationship and if you do your no your hard no can hurt people's feelings people become sensitive because you're rejecting them and so i'm gonna think of a different way to say no that's not gonna impact you as much it's really using language thoughtfully so for example you brought up lying i love that and you said you know when i was a kid i lied so i would never say to you louis you're a liar or louis no lewis you're lying to me i would say louis i know you're not being truthful with me louis you're holding something back from me sounds different so it's the same way with language we don't we throw our words out and we don't realize that they land on someone and so then we scratch our heads heads wondering why did this conversation not go well it's this person's the problem when we don't have the ability to think about how did i deliver this so if it's a business relationship that's important to you but you want to say no to this you want to think of a great way to say no do we want to think about how do we let people down without hurting their identity going back to identity what's the formula or process to get people to do things just because they feel like it well you know it's it's really it's going to sound stupid yeah smiley nice smiling uh neuroscience behind a smile if you smile at somebody you actually hit their mirror neurons you start a smile in their brain smile is an involuntary response mirror neurons mirror neurons in their brain it's the same as if the doctor hits your knee with a little hammer and your leg kicks forward you didn't choose to have your leg kick forward it's an involuntary response so if somebody sees you and you smile you've instantly hit their mirror neurons you started a chemical change now they might fight it and sometimes you get them three smiles right but by a third smile you get them smiling too yeah so you've already started the processing and then uh your inner voice betrays your outer voice when you say how are you to somebody at the starbucks your inner voice is saying i'm trying to make your day better i i i want you to be a happier person they're going to feel it if your inner voice is saying like how are you today i need my starbucks coffee and i need to get out of here and i hate this line and i hate how long you guys if that's in your voice they're going to feel that they're going to be pouring decaf in instead of instead of the other kind right so your entire approach the neuroscience shows us the person is picking it up and responding and so your body language your tone of voice the greatest negotiators in the world really maximize that because it's an invisible skill yeah but it's a skill you can teach it sounds like and learn and learn you can teach it you can learn it you can practice it all you got to do is you get your rep get your repetitions and um uh john foley's a blue angel pilot i heard him speak about four years ago he talked about how long does it take to build a habit how much training do you need he called a groove on a uh putting a groove in your brain the blue angels you know they got to build their habits before they get up in the sky otherwise the jets crash i was in a blue angel two years ago it was crazy man that had been an adrenaline it was i threw up twice i was sick the whole time and sick for three days afterwards i've got a weak stomach but uh it was unbelievable at the same time they needed to know what they were doing oh for sure they can't learn up there right amazing to watch them so close just like feet away from each other at at mach one or however fast or five whatever yeah it's crazy yeah all right so foley said how do they get that good they practice he said 63 to 64 repetitions to put it in your brain and um another guy wrote the talent code daniel coyle yeah um he talked about perfect practice you could go excruciatingly slow as long as you do it right and the first time you try any skill you probably go slow you come to one of uh the training sessions that my company puts on i'm gonna say say this word for word take your time and then react in the moment we have a one of the negotiation tools is what we call a label when i say something to you i want you to label it i don't care if you have to stare at me for 10 minutes label it label it it seems like it sounds like it looks like a label is a verbal observation okay but i need you to use those exact words and if i say i love teaching negotiations now label my emotion your emotion the emotion that i displayed when i said i love teaching negotiations to label them what do you say the three things it seems like it sounds like or it looks like labels say all three of them you just pick one of those three say all right i'm going to say it again and i want you to say word for word it sounds like and then fill in the blank okay i love teaching negotiation it sounds like you love teaching negotiation yeah now that's enough now to start with what just happened is you demonstrated it perfectly okay because the important part is you have to say the first three words that actually fires the brain and you did exactly what i thought you would do we just said it sounds like you fired the brain and then you opened yourself up to whatever your brain put in that's why i wanted you to actually say the words the actual specific words because your brain will kick into gear and say something now your first label every time you fire the synapse you get a little bit better there's a substance called myelin your brain wraps a substance it's an electrical synaptic connection in your brain and anybody you know if you know anything about electricity every time you insulate it fires a little bit better fire it 63 to 64 times according to the blue angel pilot and you get a nice circuit belt and it'll fire quickly and then you'll start to hear it so we'll fire it again okay and i want you to label it again i love teaching negotiation sounds like you love teacher negotiation now dig a little bit deeper explain it more no no just another label but use another adjective it sounds like teaching you sounds like x i love teaching negotiation it sounds like you're passionate about there you go see perfect yeah now you came up with another word now it stumped you for a second yes and you you kicked in you you know you you let that super supercomputer come up with another word like yeah i am passionate about it now interestingly enough this is a way in a business negotiation because a great business deal is an alignment of core values just like a great personal relationship is an alignment of core values i'm sitting on a on a plane flying in here this morning i found out more about the guy sitting on a plane next to me than he's told anybody in 20 years with this same kind of an exercise what do you do for a living what do you love about it and when he when he tells me i now know the guy sat next to on a plane he's got an adopted daughter she was adopted when she was six months old from china his mother struggled with uh bipolar manic depressive she committed suicide at age 17. he was raised by his grandparents his grandfather survived the depression his grandfather at one point in time going into the depression owned 11 banks that all went bankrupt he had to start completely over it his grandfather used to tell him i lost 11 fortunes his grandfather loved to live off the land they love to they love to make things by hand this guy's a very successful contractor here in los angeles and he's constantly constantly constantly working on improving himself um right to his first wife uh their their business partners they work together they work in different aspects of the business i mean i've lost track of the number of things i found out about this guy i know i know about this guy from when he was three years old to now now in this space it would sound like a normal social conversation i know this guy's incredibly loyal he's very practical he's very hardworking he i just i just flew in from vegas he was in vegas because he was in a competitive poker time he likes reading people he's a very hard worker from what i know from this guy from what this perceived social conversation i know that we could do business together and if we run into trouble i have a pretty good idea of what to expect from him and how to deal with those problems if we run into trouble with the very sort of the thing that you and i did just now wow you know you starts so when he teaches you that stuff out so when you ask him a question and he says something you would use one of those responses it seems like it sounds like what was it yeah or it feels like it feels like it looks like it could be looks like exactly i might be reading your body language it looks like you're not that interested into it even though you said you were your body language tells me something different exactly yeah and then and then see if you see that in somebody's body language your point before about starbucks about actually seeing a person that same thing is going on and they might not even know it you know every now and i get people go like yeah you know i've been struggling with this for a while i'm really really conflicted about it and they find themselves opening up because you know most of the time if you see conflict in somebody most people say i had to be fine just keep working hard it'll be fine right it's all part of the journey right instead of actually being a great sounding board for somebody and and helping them sound it out consequently learning a lot about that person at the same time it sounds like you're going through a lot right now it sounds like you're having a hard time with this it sounds like exactly or and that's exactly right and you start to become a tremendous sounding board for people so what happens to that person when you respond in one of those three or four ways that it sounds like feels like looks like what does that person feel on the other side when you're showing that type of compassion or empathy they feel connected with they feel very connected with they feel seen you know they feel like they're a person on the planet they feel like suddenly they're not just another part of the thundering herd that nobody's paying attention to yeah they feel at least that um last week we're doing a training with some some some pretty tough business people and one of the guys in this exercise is saying like i found myself talking about stuff that happened when i was seven years old wow he said i can tell you something i feel transformed right now and so we stopped the group at that point in time and we said all right so now based on larry talking about that sort of a change what kind of a guy is he to deal with he's a pretty decent guy yeah you now have got a glimpse into him is more as a total human being which means if he does something that you perceive to be a negative move he did it accidentally or you misinterpreted it which means it's okay to go back to him instead of you know letting the rage build up in you because you misinterpreted something or he did it by accident he's a decent guy if he if he slided you he did it by accident right you can go back to him and bring it up and say hey i gotta tell you i got a problem with this he's probably gonna open up because just based on this real this three-minute exercise you found out about you opened up then so you'd probably yeah he's a decent human being well and every human being is going to hurt you principally inadvertently so you go back to them and and find out what's behind it and make them aware because they're going to want to know yeah every human being is going to hurt you everybody one way or another is going to do something accidentally or on purpose that's going to hurt your feeling we're going to we're going to interpret it as negative the vast majority of the time yeah when in fact it was probably a complete accident there's a really good chance they got no idea they hurt your feelings right you need to know which one it was did they do it on purpose do they know they did it the numbers are that they did it by accident and other numbers are there's a really good chance they didn't know they did it right you know i went i went to uh you know a landmark form a couple of years ago yeah talking about making amends with people talking to people who have hurt you and so one of the young ladies did you go through the whole program yeah one of the young ladies in it was like you know when i was seven this a girl who's my cousin you know yeah they bullied me you know i said something or hurt me i you know it's 30 years i haven't let go wow so we talked about it they talked about it and she said she went she decided to go to the person and just because to forget to forgive us to like up you know not forgiving is like taking poise and hoping the other person dies right you've heard that yeah so she goes to this girl and she says i want you to know i forgot the girl didn't even remember she got no memory she was just being a stupid kid at the time she had you know they were sleeping at seven right yeah they're they're they're joking around and they're and wow for that long 30 years the other person doesn't even know it so and by nature we're joking around with somebody and we accidentally say something that wounded them if they don't feel they can talk to us they're going to carry it for 30 years yeah if i heard if i heard somebody i want to know yeah you know i because i'm going to be like i'm an idiot you know yeah i had no idea i did that to you yeah i know i did was there anything from the emotional intelligence training at landmark that added to your curriculum of negotiations that you didn't already know or used before well not because it's all in a woven the biggest thing that jumped out at me is it it occurred to me that somebody hurt somebody else without even knowing they did it like in in a masterclass thing you know they did a great job the master class people are phenomenal yeah so we're wandering to the very tail end of it and they got me talking about this guy that bullied me when i was a kid you yeah yeah yeah and and i had i had i had literally never told anybody about this wow so you know it's and it happened when i was a little kid yeah i literally had never told anybody about it not even through landmark or anything nothing well and they get it out of me a master class they they catch me off guard over it you know and it's to to this day this is one of the reasons why i hate bullies you know i want to become an fbi agent because you know we we want to go after the bad guys because the bad guys are bullies and there's nothing i like better than getting a bully that's victimizing somebody else and i think it was instilled in me in what happened when i was when i was a kid but then i started comparing that to this this interaction i heard a landmark where somebody bullied somebody else they didn't even know they did it and then i began thinking about like how many people have i heard that i didn't even know right like they would come up to me today and said you know i've carried this for 40 years and i have to have done that to somebody right i have to i know somebody yeah yeah so it's you know this this forgiveness thing is a two-way street and all and also being being you know who do i need to go back to that i can think of that i and say look look since i know that inadvertently i'm a jerk did i what did i do i'm sure i did something i had to have done something then it's an it's an interesting dilemma all sort of part of you know being a better person anyway which i know is what what you're dedicated to it's almost it seems like it's really hard especially if you're a public figure that has an audience that you're going to say something or do something that's going to offend or hurt someone right at all times yeah it's like you're always going to be offending someone if you have a voice if you're sharing something your your point of view right your point of view is going to reach a certain audience's point of view but not the rest of the world's point of view so it's like you're always hurting people aren't you yeah at some level you're like offending hurting or frustrating and their their hurt's going to be defensive in reaction yeah or they misinterpret or you you hit a button with them yeah that you didn't even you had maybe you didn't hit the button but you came close to a button that's going to hurt you close and you know and interestingly enough we see this a lot with the procurement people that come to our training i'm really careful to say look look i know you guys fear procurement and and this is about dealing successfully with procurement and we had one person in the training go i work in procurement and you criticized you said procurement people were bad i said as a matter of fact that's not what i said but i came so close to your hot button that it hit it anyway yeah and i spent some time with this woman and she was afraid that that was what i meant and but didn't know how to approach me yeah and when it came up subsequently i said no as a matter of fact procurement has one of the most difficult jobs on the planet you guys are both you spend your days either hurting cats or getting chased by villagers with pitchforks right you know it's one or the other yeah and she was like yeah yeah it's really tough i was just afraid that that's what you meant it was that amygdala that we were talking about before that's 75 negative yeah we're all equipped with that and when someone even comes close to a criticism then we're afraid that that's what they mean and they're hurt how do you take criticism not well i've never really been good at it until i wouldn't say i've mastered it i think i've gotten better over the last six years i started to really like say okay let me not react to this criticism like they probably have some good intention they're trying to tell me and maybe there's some truth there so let me start to listen to the feedback or the criticism and say okay how can i be better is there any truth in there that really resonates or are they coming from a place of anger of their own thing criticism is mostly fear driven by the person criticizing right yeah yeah um and um and you criticize that in point of fact you've been hurt you've been disappointed you've been frustrated yeah you know there's a lot of things that you know never take advice from anybody you wouldn't trade places with criticism is a form of advice but you're afraid to tell people how to do stuff so you just criticize what they do some people and then they get it becomes an addiction for some people criticism is not a great behavior i know you've heard the phrase nobody's doing better than you will ever criticize you right they'll mentor you right so first of all how do i take criticism it i got to take a step back and understand if somebody's coming at me with just a criticism even if they ask permission to criticize they got some they got struggles that are worse than mine you know they're an open wound at that point yeah yeah so i'm not gonna i'm gonna say yeah sure go ahead right i'm gonna they've already told me they're probably coming from a difficult place so what i'm gonna try to do is just kind of take it easy on them and understand where they're coming from um a blog i'm a big fan of eric barker writes this great blog barking up the wrong that's great eric told me one time for every every hater there's going to be 10 people that are on your side so when a critic comes up to me i see that as there are ten people you're indicating to me that i'm successful with nine other people and i'm not gonna get down on this person because it's very easy to get down on them because unfortunately they're coming from a negative place yeah gotcha that's good to know what's a role-playing exercise that anyone could do with a friend um that would make them a better negotiator try to get whoever you're talking to to say the magic two words that's right which means you gotta summarize where they're coming from if you in in any given interaction if you got a point you wanna make yeah before you make it your trigger you're not allowed to make your point so give me an example um and you want the other person you're role playing with to say that's right okay so you were telling me about critics yeah you're a high profile guy you're about helping other people which means you get criticized a lot that's right and when you get criticized i mean i you know i wouldn't say you're empathic oh you're i would say you're probably more compassionate those are two different things empathy is you have to have empathy to be compassionate but empathy is not compassion compassion is the next step empathy is a compassionate thing to do genuinely in understanding somebody but there's a real fine line there that distinct things and i think you have a tremendous amount of compassion for people so you know that when someone criticizes you they're attacking you but you also know that they've been hurt and they're struggling so you want to know how to respond to them and have them better as a result of the interaction instead of coming back and making him feel worse and you struggle with that because you're under attack and you try not to try not to fire back at them right yeah that's right they so you want to have a conversation with someone if you could summarize their point of view first summarize the other person would you summarize the other what the other person's struggling with in any type of deal-making in any type of business deal relationship buying coffee upgrading whatever it is right gotcha yeah then after that you can make your point interesting make your point or make your proposal or yeah or whatever so if you're trying to get it upgraded if you're trying to get an upgrade on an airport uh you know on a plane or in a hotel right or trying to get a super size meet for free right you're trying to get some type of upgrade for free right would you do the same thing would you say i know you're going through it seems like it's been a long day for you well you can look at them until when that's going to be a long day so right off the bat you say long day right and then as as soon as you get ready to make your ask what's there in this instinctive response their knee-jerk reaction what's that going to be when i make an ask once you've made your ass what's their pr if somebody's trying to get something for free yeah what's your typical knee jerk reaction now this person's just trying to get something for free from me right yeah uh so and everyone does this or everyone there you go everyone's doing this yeah so you walk up and you go like hey look man i know i'm gonna seem like just another jerk who's trying to get something for free mm-hmm somebody treats you like you were their servant somebody who doesn't care about you could care less whether you live with that they only care that you're long you're alive long enough to make my coffee because that's what the other guy's thinking how do you articulate what they're thinking especially the negative stuff about you when you say that they're going to be like [Music] but what you did was you just woke them up you know you you woke you snapped them out of the negative loop that's in their head because the last guy came in and said yeah and i want it now and i hate waiting in line to start do you do this all the time all day long are you constantly in the game of negotiation with people it's uh it's that you know that i brush my teeth today just because i brushed him yesterday you know i i i genuinely i got to keep my skills up because it's either stay even decline or get better i want to keep my skills up the mercenary in me does it because i got to keep my skills up the missionary in me does it because i actually care about people when i talk about another dimension like you guys think different than most people think well we reverse engineer yeah so my work as an engineer i don't i could barely screw in a light bulb my wife makes fun of me but the way that i think the way that we like the way that i dissect my routines is i first think of the effect so i think what do i want you to think happened right here's what would be really cool to me so it'd be really cool to me if i could tell you to think of anyone but i'm influencing where you're going to go with that person before you even know it and i'm going to tell you that person's name and i'm going to don't make it an athlete that's too obvious don't make it oh so okay narrow down psychology 101. it's the same way that a salesperson if they're very pushy the used car salesman says you get this car get this car your guard is up yeah but if you walk into a place and they kind of talk to you and they go you know what this might not be right for you i'm gonna i think maybe your business is better elsewhere you're intrigued this guy doesn't want my money what do you mean that's how you hook people in there's so many little facets yeah there's interesting thing pickup artist did you ever see that book by uh by neil strauss he's a good friend of mine so a lot of those guys start as magicians and a lot of what they talk about is very applicable to what i do literally but not for picking up you know picking up like girls or anything it's knowing how people think in their decision making knowing how social dynamics work how people think when they're one at a time or versus in a group dynamic and i you know i work on that all the time that's so much of my show is knowing how i'm gonna affect and influence somebody when they're amongst others when somebody is with their peers colleagues or whether they're with their boss all of those things play in when i do a show really oh yeah huge so when you see someone when you go into a room or a restaurant and you're thinking like when you see someone do you think like what's the trick or i mean what's the the thing i want to do not the trick but the you know jason bourne you know jason bourne the first movie one of my favorite scenes ever is when they bring him into the restaurant and he tells you everything's right boom i know what that guy's wearing i know what that license plate is i know that that no bs is exactly what i've trained my mind to do in every room ever if i walk into most rooms like i had a show last night for 85 people in san antonio texas i knew every single person's name in that room every single person's first name how well that that's memory work so i've worked on memory you you met every person well during the cocktail i walk around i say hello i met everyone i even if i don't meet them they have name tags i know i'm going to know everything about them i knew who worked for the host company i know who didn't i know who's superior to who and i've got the social dynamics on this this guy's got a wedding band you know i can see that it's scuffed i know this guy's been married probably 15 to 20 years i everything like that is fodder for the show sure additional stuff you're just like wow this guy's good that is the show yeah so when you hear about cold reading and stuff that a lot of psychics and mediums do i'm not here to tell you what's real and not real i just know that so much of what i see a lot of psychics do i could do exactly the same and i could do with no supernatural abilities i can do it based on the here the now my five senses and what i'm able to do just me a couple questions and yeah just being aware reading questions knowing where people's motivations are i know that they want to hear a certain thing so i'm going to bring them in that direction it's kind of like if i knew one thing about you let's say lewis i learned one thing about you let's say i knew exactly that you were going to think about your brother who's you know a world known jazz violinist number one in the world what i might do is mention my siblings and go into that and then have a facet where i ask somebody else in here to think of their sibling and then i wait that moment and i kind of put the hook in and i know that i've just said it where you're going to go what does my brother do and i know that information everything i've done is craft a scenario that's going to set in motion you asking me the question that i know the answer to it's everything you do is setting up or what you already know uh not always but i try to do multiple different so i have that would be if i did that more than once you would instantly catch on right so what i do is i mix methods in my show i teach you how i did one thing slightly and then i do the same thing in a totally different way and you go what the f so that's the fun of it if i did a show and you didn't understand anything you would get very bored and you get exasperated annoyed with me i like to spread bread crumbs the whole show i teach you little things takeaways and that's why you have fun yeah so you're teaching people what you're doing as you're doing it absolutely like elements of it you're not trying to like hide the magic of it oh no i i will show people how to detect lies during the show and so i'll do things body language reads i'm not teaching you to be a mentalist but i'm giving away a little bit of the craft while i go because that's what hooks you in you go wow and so as it gets every phase gets a little more impressive and then you do something even crazier you go well if you did how did you do that one it just makes it more fun you need to build sure sure um does mentalism have to do more with emotional intelligence or observing people's behavior so it has to do with both in the same way that a hypnotist if you say to me i don't want to be hypnotized i don't want to be hypnotized i'm not going to be hypnotized then at the end of the day you won't be hypnotized does that make sense the power of suggestion so but a hypnotist a very talented good one can diffuse that person's underlying tension or why are they so nervous or what are they scared of or what's the problem so in in most scenarios i try to get to the root of will this person be good to work with or not and when i'm doing a big show i can quickly avoid people that i just don't think are going to be fun right because some people if let's say i walk up to you and you just had a really rough day or you got really bad news and i don't want that i don't ever want to bring up my show is not ever going to bring you bad news it's a fun show it's interactive so i'll kind of shy away from that yeah but to answer the question i think that it's more about observing people than the emotional intelligence because certain people i just can't read well there's no way around it yeah like so i can do certain things with them but we won't get to the next level with them it's just that simple there's no way around it and then they'll come up to the show and be like why didn't you do something more with me and i'm like i'm sorry i couldn't and then they're like exactly right you're exactly right it was a bit more opaque than others so what's the perfect person to work for with or who do you see what's the type of person you see you're like yes that's going to be a good person to work with it's it runs the gamut of the extreme so the people that are most believing and most into it are always the most fun and also the ones that are at the opposite end that are the most skeptical because nothing's better than crossed yeah arms crossed body language like this and i seek them out in the show i have a lot of funny bits that are just literally finding that person that that's gonna say there's no way you're gonna know this and that's the best moment ever when you get that right because that's when you get the explosive reactions on stage on tv and the ones like the david blaine things where you just know in today's day and age where everything can be faked everything can be reshot but authenticity can't be faked like when you see someone's real reaction you know it's not actors you know you just can't fake it it's very difficult to fake surprise and being blown away people can notice when it's when it's off you know yeah of course they can is there ever a what do you call it if you don't you know call it a trick but do you call it something else trick routine effect whatever you want is there ever i don't mind trick i mean at the end of the day i'm tricking you but right my goal isn't the trick right if you figure out how i did it some of the time it's more impressive than actually not knowing really there's certain things i do or when you know if you actually figure it out somebody will walk up to me because you couldn't have possibly done this and this like that's exactly what danny was there's no way that's insane so it's some of the things are even more impressive once you figure them out because they seem so ballsy they go you just did that in front of thousands of people like that could have gone wrong what if what if and i go that's exactly that's the rush have you ever done a big performance where everything's gone wrong never everything but like a big trick maybe that you know you you always do really well or that always goes well and then it's like this big aha and then no that wasn't what i was thinking about oh 100 really oh yeah how do you deal with that so it depends where i'm dealing with it so let's say when i do a stage show like a corporate event or somebody's having me for a private party the one thing i have of the luxury of is time okay so here's what i mean by that imagine a director's cut of a movie let's say you get to watch the three alternate endings you didn't even know that could happen you go wow i didn't even know so in some situations the only reason you know what the ending is is if i frame the ending okay so something could go wrong that you don't even know went wrong you don't know because i didn't say it's not an a to b it's not think of something and i'm gonna guess it so if i can reframe just reframe something then you don't even know it went wrong we just move in a different direction and pivot and suddenly that goes right and you think that other thing didn't even matter do you understand what i mean it's all the way that i frame it you could have ended it originally but it you realize that like oh this isn't the end so i need to go somewhere else correct if you didn't know the reason you expected is let's say um if i said this is the final thing and here we go if i tell you in advance what's going to happen if i say you say this and here's an envelope and look what's inside you're expecting it to be that right but what if it's not that what if it's something from earlier and we then go to do you understand there's different facets sure on tv it's very different yeah i do a lot of live tv now i yeah i'm on the today show every month i do quite i was on espn you see i pretty much do usually knock on wood i've been doing about two or three national tv apprentices a month lately congrats thank you it's amazing so but you got to have kind of the end because you only got like five minutes oh that you couldn't be more right there's a clock ticking and when something goes wrong and a lot of the stuff i do is very risky and a lot of other mentalists that like my friends that will say to me like why are you doing that man and i go because i like to live on the edge like big big risk big reward where i will tell somebody think of something and i go right now change your mind to another thing and it's like they know that there's there's just no there's no safety net if at that moment i don't push them and they don't go to what i want them to do then there's no outs like i did this thing with al roker where i had him think of any celebrity and i said who's going to run for president in 2020 just make someone up right now and he goes george clooney right and then i said i go what if you change your mind right at this moment pick anybody else what if it was somebody else he goes i don't i go just anyone and he goes taylor swift and i took off my shirt and i had a picture of taylor swift uh 20 20 and he did not i'll show you the clip and they they were so freaked out that they couldn't do the next segment and they bumped the next person who i saw in the green room and she was so mad at me oh my gosh and they kept me on and they just kept saying like how did you that owls and i i since know them because we've developed quite a relationship in the last year but to this day he goes that's the one he goes because in that moment i could have sent anything i wanted he goes you were wearing a shirt and then i told him the joke i was wearing george clooney underwear don't worry but uh but no it was it's that kind of stuff is in the moment my heart is racing what if he doesn't say it but i'm super calm that's like all the it's kind of like when i line up at the race day all my nerves are gone once i start running once i get in the zone if i am too nervous and i don't believe it then it won't happen yeah i know that sounds ridiculous but the visualization the i'm sure you know usain bolt michael phelps they did their races a thousand times in their mind absolutely before that gun went off so in my mind every single scenario i'm so focused in that moment when i'm on tv and i know that millions of people are watching that if i don't believe it's gonna happen it might not it's not gonna happen yeah i swear so how long were you thinking about this uh routine without with al how long you think it was just like a couple days before or weeks before probably i mean most of them it's they you don't really have uh it's not like one of those things where they tell you're gonna be on two months from now they're like on monday though hey we want you for wednesday pretty much it's usually about a let's call it seven to ten day notice so you think about it yeah and are you thinking this is what i want him to say this is where i wa oh yeah i'm gonna wear this shirt it was very he's gonna say taylor swift he better and are you going over in your mind like just visualizing it for the whole week like oh this is what i'm gonna say to set him up this is where he's going to go all the time everyone all the time thinking about tweaking it thinking about where it will he think i just know imagine just one of those i don't know what those what are those charts where you this goes to that and this goes to that it's like a spider chart so i'm eliminating all of those branches by what i'm saying and the way i'm influencing him the way i'm tapping him and like i know right when he thought of that when i tapped him he just went away from that oh it's just there's layers on layer it's like inception almost wow that's what i try to do so how did you set it up for him oh you watch it later i i gosh man a video is worth a thousand words yeah because if i tell you you just won't people won't believe it you won't when you see it i'll believe it yeah it sounds too bs when i tell it now is it more about you believing it in your mind and seeing it actually happen or is it more about what you say your touch your what you don't say all of it all of it yes you're thinking about every element of how to influence him to say taylor swift yes 100 wow this is fascinating man um it's still with all that due diligence and all that work i still can't get my wife to say the restaurant i want to go eat at i'm like where do you want to eat she's like anywhere you want and i'm like sushi she's like no then i'll say like four more things and then she'll finally be like no i want this i'm like why didn't you tell me from the start even a mentalist has the same issues that all the rest of the portals have sure so i married her i have no idea what she's thinking that's funny now um have you ever done something on tv where it went wrong were you like you had the taylor swift shirt underneath or whatever they've never been that that they were like deep donald trump you're like um so it's not what it's so i i mean it will happen yeah that will be my last tv appearance right but no it will invariably um it will happen one day but for the big ones for the big reveals like the stuff that's like the end point it's never been that and even then to be honest the thing with al roker i didn't know he was going to say george clooney first i swear to you i swear to you you could that that that was at that moment that was as laser-focused you try to get him to say something else first why want him to say taylor swift the first time of course oh yeah and then you said switch it well you didn't know that that would be the case you didn't know that was obviously if i had this you needed to so at that point for me to say to him i go what if i go in this very moment look at me change your mind anyone else that you could ever think of in 2020 and he went to her it's like two more times someone else hillary who else it was we were on the clock and he goes you have 45 seconds left when i was doing something for them it's an amazing moment and i had about 15 seconds to do it with him and i ripped off the shirt almost like popped the buttons when i revealed it but if you um if you watch it it was just at that moment was just laser focused where i like had to really like vulcan mind mill look him right in the eye and say if you change your mind right now who would you change to and he goes like this he's like exasperate goes i don't know i go just anyone he was taylor swift and it was just it must have felt so good just like ah it's not even a rush like my stomach dropped everything oh my god so to answer your question it hasn't happened yet but even in the moments when it's been close i've been able to find it but it will one day it will one day oh wow and i'm gonna have to watch that one and see um let's bring in let's bring in uh get matt or matt either one either one bring them both in okay so for those who are just listening you're going to want to go to the youtube channel and watch this right now um but you'll still you'll you'll understand what's going to happen matt is here cesar is here next to me and then o's is across from matt so go ahead so i got in here today yes literally from the airport disheveled open up my suitcase and i just started throwing stuff out there imagine planting seeds and i asked you to think not of work but make it like a little more like vacation something that was amazing and i give you some time is that right and you came up with something did you come up with something pretty good now i know you initially deliberated and you thought of of one trip a vacation and you switched your mind correct i could tell the first trip you were thinking of uh you mentioned was it a place you've been to more than once yes okay and i could tell just based on this the hand motion you were there you weren't alone you're with other people and it's somebody close to the heart so go back to the first thing thing you just thought of before you changed your mind somebody with you really close to the heart older this your dad were you thinking of your dad first you were right you were just thinking of your dad no no no but this is crazy because then you changed your mind am i right now certain people i told you group dynamics matt knows everybody in this room yeah so he doesn't feel like he's got to impress you some people want to tell them think of a vacation they're like oh crap i got to really like if he said florida you're going to look at him like that's the best you could do buddy so you probably didn't go with like tahiti or something nuts i think you probably did a place you've been to more than once but like it's just awesome it's just got a place in your heart am i right about this yes now you thought of your dad the first time and so when you changed you probably went to a female plus you're twiddling your thumbs you look excited she's not related to you is she uh she's not she is not okay here's what you do think of the place um um think of where on the planet so imagine like we spin the globe and i think this is holy crap this is somewhere in the u.s am i right is this domestic and okay i think it is somewhere in california am i right holy oh man but it's a good one there's no way i can know this the person with you think of the first letter of her name think of the first don't say don't say listen to this noise like a chop it's either a c or a k am i right yes okay um um how many years back how many years ago was this trip five okay so you went there five years ago but you've been there more than once would this have been like 2012 am i doing the math right on that or like more earlier earlier 2000 what give or take 10 11. okay which one do you think probably 2010. 2010. you'll check later it was actually 2011 but whatever no i'm kidding i'm kidding 2010 it is is there any way that i could have found this out is there some way shape or form that luis sarah anybody in this room could have told me or given this up i want you guys to see this in my pocket i'm i'm reaching in here um i'm going to pull this out it's stapled oh my gosh we're at the school of greatness and i wasn't taking any chances prediction this thing is staple chuck can you tell us it stapled everywhere did i miss a corner did i do anything was i stapling anything here rip it open if it's a photo of you and her there six years ago i'm kidding a photo your camera person's gonna fake people have gotten restraining orders right no not a photo just humor me where was this trip santa barbara oh beautiful place read out loud what i wrote folded and stapled shut for him no way i'm picking up i'm picking up a vacation to santa barbara that happened in 2010 and someone with you named kendra holy he give him cpr stop breathing starting to sweat i'm getting clammy oh what yeah that was it i even said five years and then we went back to 2010 i went through every one of his albums on facebook this morning you have no idea i have 38 other envelopes all over my body his trip to london is chafing my right thigh right now he doesn't even have facebook i know tell me about it couldn't even do it with him wait get sarah in here where's sarah grab sarah real quick that's amazing i want you please turn on your phone and take a step back so there's no way you think i can see your mirrors or anything and i want you to start scrolling through the names kind of like you've done a million times before and what you're seeking out here is this random person of the day somebody you didn't even know why you picked them initially am i right going through and i see you going up going down scouting looking at this guy this girl finally stopping on one specific person did you find them and take your time with it is this the person from before yeah yeah you've got somebody right in mind did you even know why you picked this person initially or is this just totally random totally right okay and then put it against your stomach once you've found them this is the person that she picked before right yeah yeah yeah we when i say picked before it's very important there's no this is like there you didn't tell anybody this is like somebody you just picked out of your phone for no rhyme or reason in fact when you first looked you didn't even look you were just kind of scrolling that put it against your body now i can tell it's a guy am i right about that yes now i don't know how your phone is laid out i've never seen your phone touched your phone you didn't do you didn't write this or whisper this or anything like right now the only way that you have this information is you looked in your own phone is that correct i want to be sure i watch this too and i didn't tell you go there go there you just went through your phone uh is it a first and last name or is it just the first first okay think of how many letters are in the first name but don't count it with your mouth don't use your fingers tell me when you've counted it that was instant louis i call that an instant read if the name was like mitchell that's a struggle man m-i-t-c-h that's like yes but if the name is really quick like joe like a dan or a bob or a bill exactly right i think wait why did you smile because you laughed when you said one of those words no no that was weird she laughed at you and got very tense wow no bs did he just read him is the name actually joe what dude bring it in how did you do it why shut up yeah the tension i didn't even read her mind yeah i was just getting there but she she got very tight and tried to look not serious and then she looked at you right after wait go to his last name no way no don't say put it against your body dude you got the gift man put it against your body put it against your body though joe do you remember his last name okay let's say that i dump scrabble tiles right here on the table and you take them and you spell his last name with the scrabble top and i won't make you count it because i see you looked a little confused you went back and forth which means the name is long i want you to imagine you put all the tiles on the table and you know how the z has a lot of points and the q has a lot of points i don't care which one you pick up but i want you to reach down and pick up one of the letters out of the middle and i want you to come on over and imagine that they're laid out right here the scrabble tells me when you pick one up out of the middle please pick one up and hold it in your hand you have a tile in your hand correct now i saw when you went down did you see how she did this she went like this question that's weird but you didn't know which one to go with which means you either changed your mind or weird question did the letter you pick up is it in the name more than once no okay okay that was because you did that it's a vowel am i right no not a vowel okay okay let me see it think of that letter it's kind of near the end of the name no no okay okay go back to the okay put that down i really thought it's not an it's not an n is it it is an n am i right yes hold the applause good idea in here because i saw you waver from an n and you were thinking of an e and it's i i you know what i know you're about to do it and i don't know if i'm spelling this right everyone always gets mad it's not a spelling bee it's a mind reading can you close your eyes for us please close your eyes and i feel like and do we have are we zoomed in on that yeah we got a shot open your eyes she didn't see it's like italian right joe what what that's crazy wow that's crazy wow weirdest part she barely remembers who he is and he's gonna text her in three days she's gonna freak out i'm kidding i'm kidding she's like do you know joe wow joe's gonna hear this and he's gonna be like come on tweet me back that's crazy the name thing and that's just like crazy but a lot of that is like also persuasion right and it was also like tells and persuasion some of it oh yeah the part with the letters i mean she could have thought of anyone i know she changed right at the end and i knew the vowel and like people are indecisive sometimes right so she yeah wow man this is crazy um what's the one [Music] effect that you've always wanted to learn how to do you've never been able to do yet so i there's one thing that i really want to do which is uh publicity stunts so like david blaine did amazing things where i mean things everybody knows about like exactly stood on a pole for like 48 hours didn't eat for 40 days so 40 days didn't he did that's what they said he was in a glass box in london um that they kind of you know had hanging and he's just done a lot of these stunts like being buried alive and so those types of stunts i've always wanted to do one i haven't fully figured out yet but i want to do a minor houdini thing not so much so those stunts there's two elements that will capture attention right yes the first one is danger right so so either you're starving yourself or you're putting yourself you're shooting a bullet or something where could this go wrong you know kind of that same feeling that mentality when you're at a race track where you don't want anyone to get hurt but you're like this has that danger element right so the other one is if i'm not doing something dangerous which is things like a russian roulette like uh in a lot of shows there's a famous trick that mentalists do where they'll put a knife or a spear under a paper bag and they'll get blindfolded and they'll tell one person know where it is and he can feel where that person's tension is and he'll smack every single bag yes except that one and david's done that too right i've seen it i mean everyone knows it's a famous it's scary i know a guy who went right through his hands right on video one of my good friends in israel what knife went right through and this is your livelihood we're talking about so there's real elements of danger but that so many people have done so if you either do danger or you do something that's endurance like what if i literally just uh you know could walk up to every single person who walked up to me and uh read their mind with something simple like if we played rock paper scissors we flipped a coin and you do this with a thousand people in a row and if i lose i'm gonna pay you a million dollars wow so that might be the next level where you don't introduce an element of danger but you introduce an element of wow what if i could so that's the only way a real publicity stunt could work with mentalism unless you i don't personally like the danger because what do you want to happen people actually want the bloodthirstiness where you actually want it otherwise at the end it's a bit of a letdown you feel relieved they didn't get hurt but part of you wants to see it it's just natural it's the gladiator crazy it's roland coliseum it's crazy so i don't know if i want to kind of incentivize people to want to see me get hurt no uh some people do don't get me wrong some people when they hate like show they're like yeah i want to see this guy stabbed but uh more of how many people's minds could i read it once because it gets exponentially more difficult one-on-one the show is is easier for what i do but you suddenly incorporate 10 people 15 20. it's not 10 times as hard it gets to be a thousand ten thousand you have to watch everybody at once and that's where it would be exciting for me and for everyone else well didn't it is that lior didn't he do something like that on tv wrote down a name and then they flipped it over oh yeah a drawing star stopped so that was very cool so yeah it's something he worked on for a while star is probably easier a symbol's probably easier than a name i would say oh 100 so anyone can just you know if you influence everyone's minds to go into our star i'm assuming it's correct right that's crazy but still in the whole audience it was like everyone had drawn a star and then one person in the corner drawn a penis it was history really [Music] you get 252 on tv yeah you know wow pg-13 but wasn't he like okay don't make it like something like a tree or like this or like that like you're saying eliminating things right like okay what's the next thing yeah it's still it's that's impressive that's very important suggestion yeah unbelievable man what's the thing that you've learned from the power of suggestion and human dynamics in terms of sales like sales and how you sell something if so if there's an entrepreneur listening or watching what can we take away that's more about persuasion or about uh sales or about um negotiation oh my goodness i mean what i do is so rooted in the skills of negotiation what's a few maybe one or two things that everyone should be doing in a negotiation so these aren't things that i've invented my yes these are things that i use and that as a mentalist i'm just a little more keenly aware of when people are going to react based on their body language but that expression of he or she who talks first loses in a negotiation is so true people are scared to pause to just let air settle so for example i almost never when i used to do negotiations would ever mention price just never talk about money there was never i would tell you everything about it and wait for you to ask about it you know everything about it until there because otherwise you make that situation awkward there's something to be said for allowing people to simmer to get excited about something to build it up and say how much exactly before you go to how much and then with the how much question as soon as you list something now this is obviously more rooted in a service versus if you're selling a product or a widget or something else then obviously negotiations don't really matter so many things are the art of the deal right i mean if it's renting an apartment if it's buying a car if it's all these different things where there's different levels of power as to who wants something more than the other and finding that balance i mean it's not going to be applicable to everyone's business but once you're done speaking and you've laid something out do not speak again if you start backtracking if you say oh it's it's two thousand dollars and and then they just let it hang and you're like oh yeah well what do you think or that's right there is the sign of weakness allow that other person to digest it and honestly i've let five 10 15 seconds go by and that's an eternity of somebody when you say the price or when you don't say the price well i it's it's just changed now because i i exactly but when i was doing it i is that i would give a price and then i let that sit i just that's it at that point let them say what they want to say whether it works whether it doesn't work where they want to go with it and then you move from there right giving options is also a great thing if you were to walk into a store and you don't really know what you're going to pay there's a lot of things in this world that you don't know what you're going to pay until you get married you probably don't know what a dj or a wedding photographer anything these things cost right so if you give out packages like here's silver here's gold and here's platinum people always don't want the cheapest option they want to feel like they got a deal but on something that's like better right there's always that feeling of you want to feel like you got a deal so if you can build that into the cake that's always great that's always great but if you negotiate on things you're always going to negotiate so there's something risky to be said where if you're always negotiable right people will know that and they'll always know that they can negotiate you down so you need to decide where you want to be with that um what's the skill you've yet to master that needs to take your game to another level because there's persuasion human dynamics there's suggestion there's memory there's all these different things you've mastered to a certain level but what's what's missing for you something i'm trying to always work on more and more is listening [Music] when i tell you for example don't think of a pink elephant you immediately think about it and all the viewers right now think of a pig elephant so the same thing when you watch the number four you can't think of three you can't think of five and i know it's like a poker tale when you look at it i know it's a four i know it's a three i know it's a two i know i during the years i you practice it enough practice it's all about it's like it's like playing a piano you know everybody can learn to play a piano but not everybody will read mozart so i mastered the whole concept of understanding how people think now if it's a if it's a one through six it'd be easier than one through a hundred so it's the same principle just same principle just gonna be more sensitive wow so somebody has a one throw hundred dice so for example for example uh in my show i have an act where i have someone hold the coin in one of the hands and i guess which hand is the coin every time and it makes the audience laugh because i talk about body language but somewhere inside their mind they're saying okay it's a 50 chance so you know and then i bring 30 people on stage and now you have one to 60 and one of them is holding the coin and now it's much more difficult but i'm looking at them and i point to a person and that person usually holds the coin so it's a real so it's the same concept you know before the before we start shooting we talked about uh magician versus mentalist and i thought about what to tell you about that when you watch a magician show you are amazed you're blown away just like here oh my god how did it happen how did you know it what's going on but you know somewhere deep inside your mind that he didn't kill the girl sower in half and then brought her back right and you know that when she levitated you know it's not something from a quantum physics defying gravity thing you know there's a trick you don't know what is a trick but you know it's not real right you know it's an illusion when you watch a mentalist show there's another factor of belief because there is you will ask yourself is it really true not true is it a magnetic yes but there's there's lots of lots of more aspects than just wondering so there's an element of belief there's a limit of it's similar a little bit to same thing that happens in our brain when we talk about religious when someone believes in god or not believe in god there's you go out and you ask yourself is it real or it's not real it's not just a trick so that's the main issue between a mentalist and a magician wow mm-hmm and there's not many mentalists talking about many how many are there that are world-class in your mind not a lot i mean i think there's like less than 10 very good ones very good ones who's the one that you're inspired by there's uh we talked about there and darren is amazing amazing from england we've got another israeli heim goldenberg from canada he's a good friend of mine there's two in israel which are very good i mean there's there's there's you know yuri geller started the whole concept you know the name no yuri getter in the 70s israeli he took the concept the first one we took and took it to the stage he used to burn spoons with the mind so every time you think of spun ben you have something about that's him he was the one who did it he became huge all over the world he was a personal friend of michael jackson and john lennon and he was consulting them he used to find oil that's what you know according to what he says of course if i oil with his mind have companies advice companies he was the first one who started the whole concept of taking the power of the wine bringing to the stage and entertainment and what i did with it because i was always very funny you know and you know i always like to make fun and entertain people i love the high energy of entertainment and i love to be creative so i took the concept and developed a lot of creativity around it and that's what you see in the live shows and the tv shows and all of that wow that's a lot of fun what's something that someone's done that you think has blown you away personally i feel like you've seen it all you you know how a lot of people have learned their psychology and things like that so i you know well if you think about it again i go back to magic a magician can do four things any magician he can make something appear from nowhere or disappear or transpose you know or levitate um that's it that's like in lots of different ways exactly so like that's like four pillars now with what i do same four pillars i can read something i can influence something or guess something you know it's more like a reading i can predict something or i can uh make things move like the spoon bending or telekinesis stuff brain power on that you build a story different different story it's like you know you talk about motivational speaking okay motiva thinking positive it's it's a fact people need to think more positive but every person takes it to how they see it and how they look at it at the end it's all about mindfulness and you know getting yourself into the right position but same thing here there's four elements and i build the story the crazy story wrong and i give you in the middle of the story i give you traps and i give you ideas and i give you oh i think i know how we did that and then something came coming to that blog so it's it's a show it's a live show it's it's to entertain people and when i see and this is the truth when i see people wandering and here's an interesting thing that i don't think nobody talked about it what is the sense of wonder what is it what do you think is a wonder what is it when someone is wondering they're curious but if you wish you left you were like oh my god oh my god some people will cry some people go like this and some people will just hmm there's lo i mean we know yeah exactly you know laughter you know it's universal this is laughter right sadness you know it's the opposite angry you know it's like this wonder is very individual if you think of wonder not everybody will go like this not everyone some people will go like this some people would be like shocked once i had a show and nobody clapped their hands at the end and i was fell so he said no you understand they were too shocked oh wow so i had to reprogram the show to get uh to uh applause so so it's very interesting you think about it and when i see the audience wondering becoming children again that's amazing wow that's why i do what i do do you feel like you had a good childhood a define a good childhood well you say you want people to be like children again that means i believe you know i have two children of my own and you know the children did you see that there's a there's an amazing scene from the movie the prestige you see a magician you're taking a little bird and you go like this when the bird disappears and the audience goes oh my god and the bird appears like in another place so everybody's like clapping their hand and the little boy is asking what happened to the first bird and really the musician had like a mechanic something that makes her he kills the first board oh no or something like that but peop children has a sense of wonder you know they touch the iron because they're curious and then they get the burn and they they you know i see my my kid is doing something from from lego and he's like oh look what i've done what i've done it's a day of this when we grow up we start to lose this you go into the box you know you you have your work and you know everything in the news and we start to lose this this amazing feeling so wonder of wonder and i'm here to get back and you see and you know i don't want to no name dropping but you know some of the people that i perform for it doesn't matter who you are you can be known i don't know rich poor everybody's like leveled and they have this sense of wonder which is amazing so it's a wonderful feeling how old are your kids or four and two and do you perform mentalism on them it's hard because mentalism is very uh it's sometimes it's not visual it's not like magic usual sometimes it's very intellectual you know what you think about later you think about so it's hard to express it but you know working on that you're working out with them a little bit because you're not like voila like there's something in that corner yeah exactly exactly exactly that's why when i do a big show even if if i do a show for 3000 people it the stage and the screen the production will be modest because it's not going to be explosions and stuff like that yeah there's a little of course lighting and we have screens we have cameras because it's all about the interaction but it's not going to be like you know fireworks and stuff like that because it's all about what's happening there it's not about the world it's not about how big it is it's how emotional it is how important is storytelling in mentalism that's everything that's everything that's everything how did you learn how to tell better stories i didn't i didn't you know i just uh you know it it's i'll tell you a little story a i think it was like 10 years ago i did a show and the guy came to me and told me i have a show for a company for a swatch group in switzerland swatch brand and i have all the retailers do you think it's it's amazing you think you could do something connected to the watch and then we're like hmm it's like thing i have an idea and then started infotainment infotainment infotainment which is creating this stuff i said okay so i know how to guess things for dice what if it wasn't a dice what if it was uh different messages of a company and you look at something and say oh you're looking at how important is the connection with the workers and then i would i find myself talking about the messages conveying the messages but in a way that people remembers it right so for swatch i took 10 people on stage i told them to one of the acts hold your hand above your watch count to three and i actually stopped all their watches stopped completely from they all you didn't touch the watches i told them i was going like this to them the watch stopped you didn't touch the watches the audience goes well never touch the watch the audience goes wild wow one lady from those 10 people said my watch is still working and i started to act like no way what's going on what's going on no no it didn't stop and i was let me see let me see and i was going like oh you have this watch and that was like a moment because and then i said what do you have what do you have and i talked about all the other brands wow that i could stop but i could not stop the swatch that was powerful and the message was i can't do it that's brilliant and it was a metaphor of course by the way i could stop any of the watches i just made it look like i could i i acted as i did and i saw the owner of mr hayek is the owner of he passed away but back then it was like because you had 700 people who sell his watches and now we wanted to say how good is the watch wow so then i found myself flying for a lot of corporations fortune 500 companies security uh for ibm i did a competition who is smarter me or watson you know the artificial intelligence for google we did something who is faster in searching the master mentalist or google you know so i create this and i think this works on a principle that if i ask you what were you wearing uh three weeks ago on monday you know nobody nobody knows no no but if i ask you what did you do on the on the day of september 11 when the plane hits the twin you remember exactly what you did yeah can you remember what i was doing no but i remember what i was doing and they think that why do you remember it because it was an emotional impact bad negative one you remember also the good things so when i'm doing when i'm standing in front of a company and i create this sense of wonder mind tricks call it whatever you want and people are like blown away but this is connected to the messages of the new product you're holding the new cyber security program that prevents hackers and while you're holding it i'm i can't read your mind right and people get the metaphor and everybody remembers the messages and it's better than any lecture it's better than any powerpoint show because people go home and say oh this guy was talking about the new blah blah blah of cyber security of the company when i hold this he couldn't read my mind and when i didn't hold it you could read my mind so it talks about right this what's the riskiest thing you've ever done that you actually because usually you know like it's going to work on this i'm assuming like you know you gotta influence or they use they used to have a time where i used to one of the acts in the show i used to have like a like a russian roulette i used to have like uh like uh four knives and sorry four like bases and one night or something something like that with the bags that's scary i used to play with a staple guns that you know one of them is loaded all the rest is not loaded you mix it up and then i find it and then i took it to the next step i don't find it you find it so you take it and i take it and i go like this like and i click it i did it in a television show in israel it was crazy and then with time i felt i don't think it's for me it's not about the if i'm right or wrong if i'm wrong it's very not for me but but because this is not it's um it's very authentic it's very it might go wrong and when i do a live show and i just came back from miami i did it was a two hours live show things got wrong really right yes but the audience are not aware it's part of the story it's kind of okay i'll get something else i'll get back to it later and there's there was a guy who in the middle of the show he was like a heckler he said what's the name of my my kingdom teacher or what's the name of my friend it happens and i was like i stopped the show and i was like i started to tell jokes about him interrupting me and actually i'm sorry the show is going to be extended and i went to him but at the end of the in the end of the show i wrote the name of his kingdom this is robinson it was remember it was crazy and everybody's like blown away because i have anchors i know i'm first act second act third act but in between stuff can go i go crazy but people don't remember the failures necessarily because they're so you always tie it around at the end and by the way this is i mean this is this is this is it's like a philosophical psychology okay let's say that you're holding i'm just inventing something you're holding a bill and you ask me to guess the serial number okay and i go okay three five six nine nine nine or whatever and it's completely correct and the order is applause let's say they do it and have a mistake in one digit what's better one digit out of the out of the ten ten or eight digits i don't know i'm pretty impressed if someone pulls it out and you get all the 10 digits but in a show i think that if i have a mistake it tells like you're it's incredible i'm human i'm like you guys it's you get got it uh there's an action not perfect exactly because then there's something that's got to be off exactly there's some magic binder i don't believe i don't believe you don't know this person exactly sometimes i get there's an actor i tell someone to draw something where you're standing back to back and we draw the exact same thing and it's really spectacular it's really cool sometimes i get the picture so good that i'm doing a little off on purpose really yeah so he did a house in a tree and a sun so i do a house and a tree but i i reverse it i i do pretty close yeah very very close and it's it's i think it's wow stronger i think it's a little bit not a perfect match yes i'm like a magician that you can't go a little bit it has to be exactly because if not she's not levitating if it's not it's has to be so on purpose you'll mess it up yeah i won't mess it up i go close because i think it shows the credibility of the audience but you really have the exact image sometimes and sometimes not you know and sometimes i will not know it and i will play on it in a different way and i'll go from a different direction or you'll come back to something else with them and tie it in somehow mm-hmm yeah exactly that's that's part of the the show why do you keep doing this um i love the i love how people react to it i really really i love to perform you know i i finish the show i take about i go out and then sometimes there's like a encore or something like that but sometimes i go back and just go down the stairs and people coming to me selfies and pictures and there's like another 30 minutes of me taking pictures signing because i want to hear and people come to me oh my god you're inspired this is not just i don't think it's just entertainment i think it's also inspiring i think it's a little bit educational because i don't i think i think my next phase will be getting a little more educational maybe teaching something maybe really maybe i don't know maybe something that will help not just for fun something that will help you impact people beyond wonder exactly curiosity so they'll go home and they will say okay i want to try to do something and to be better or to to do something um i love the reactions of people i love people generally what do you think that will take for you to do in order to get people out at the end of your performance hour two hours whatever it may be to be like you know what i'm going to change this part of my life that's to be better that's the next step i think what is that you think i don't know yet i you know i think when you see someone who's doing you know in the show you saw the video with the jerry with the rubik's cube uh yes gerard butler yeah so i gave him a rubik's cube he mixed the cube yeah he kept mixing it up behind his back and then he showed that he solved it and if people were like going crazy crazy so this is an act that i do in the show right now with two people and this is an act that i call the act it's it's an act about you're going you're going to do the impossible now not me right now again it's very philosophical because of course i'm doing it i'm helping them i'm controlling i'm influencing but i love to make it look like it's their moment right now so they go like this and like they solved it and it's really really cool so i think i'll add more aspects of that the impossible is possible exactly i want i want you to try to guess what he's thinking not just me not just the superstar on the stage i want you to think of a number and you think about it and you guess the number and i will show them how it's possible to do it and i think this will inspire people to be more positive is this a skill that people can learn to get to a certain level beyond where they're at maybe they're not going to get to your level but how can we learn to be more intuitive definitely in our own lives to be able to perceive people and influence people or persuade people obviously in a positive way of integrity but not getting them to do something negative but how can we tap into the intuition more i will tell you something i'm i'm i'm not religious but every i i'm again you know we're in los angeles every every second you have like the psychic stores i'm really against that i'm against psychic and against fortune tellers some of them using similar techniques like me but if i look at you or tell you to think of a name or something and and i can guess it i can guess it as a mentalist as entertainment or i can say i'm getting spirits blah blah and that's what they do yeah so so so they take advantage of people's you know they're in uh beliefs beliefs and they do it so i hate that but i really believe in karma and psychological not spiritual karma i don't like the whole this kind of stuff but psychological karma so first of all if you give to people you got back definitely so i always try to when there's a situation i always say to people well okay what can i do for you what how can i help you if i can i will help you there's nothing wrong with that and i'm sure it will come back to me right in another way and it happens all the time and you know there's some stuff that people can you know can learn they can learn the basics of uh of uh influencing how to create a rapport how the basic of nlp a little bit how to how to get more chances of the other person to say yes to you and but it doesn't mean you're going to be on stage and guess things about people but how can we use this in our own lives to be better exactly that i think this is the next step for me i wrote a book about this uh it's called mind reader unlocking the power of your mind to get what you want so the whole book is filled with lots of mind tricks mind questions like you're running in a race all right you're running and you just passed uh second place which place are you now you just passed second you just passed the base so now you're on second place exactly but you thought about it you want to say first yes so yes how the mind works it's interesting lots of fun stuff you also influenced me by putting someone in first exactly exactly so i teach about that lots of fun stories my tricks and in between there's a little bit of how to influence people a little bit of um how to be positive you know to give a compliment to people sure for example goes a long way what a compliment goes a long way exactly when you give a compliment it's like you're already influencing someone to give you everything you want make sense right i agree i don't know where you hugged me twice yes exactly no it's funny because i always lead with a big hug when i meet someone it's it's wonderful and i i usually hug like a second longer than you're supposed to but also make it playful you're talking with an israeli jewish okay you know what you know what's futspa hutzpah is a word you could google it i've heard of it but it's the word it's like positive rudeness it's this hey how are you sometimes americans like yeah germaphobic is in space japanese you know like varied but sometimes sometimes it's there's a funny about israel you say never interrupt an israeli while he's interrupting somebody else for sure so so i have this uh thing of hutzpah and it works i think i think the hugs you know the embracing embracing like it creates a con immediate connection hug is a universal way to say hey great to meet you or something like that um for americans sometimes can be embarrassing a little bit a little bit but they say that you're positive so it's all good what do you say are like three four or five things your top thing is that if people did more of they would automatically just be more influential people would want to be around them more people would say yes more or give them more information or want to work with them more whether it be business intimate relationships a few things are just like i'll tell you something there's there's an amazing book called influence so one of the things he talks about it's really interesting it talks about um when you give when you give and it sounds bad but it's not bad reciprocity or yeah no no yeah so when you give no no when you give someone something he he will want to give you back reciprocity yeah yeah and you can see it in in you know in in from individual to countries so for example you know we have the israeli uh government and turkish government for example they're they're sometimes they're like friends not like on and off connected to the situation turkey and israel and sometimes it's a bad relationship that there's a good relationship but there is to we have i think there was a few years ago there was a big earthquake in turkey and we sent the first special units to help and save them no matter what the relationship between the politics right yeah israel is always by the way in thailand when israel sends people to help always always always always and you put politics aside then we had a few years ago we had a big fire in haifa in israel big huge fire and the turks sent the super tankers to help us back it's kind of like and it shows and and the next day you know the prime ministers can say we hate you and and it shows something interesting so the first thing i think when you're in a group of people always be the first one to say uh how can i let me let me help let me support how can i support you and i'm not talking about giving money to people and it's just help in a way in a way before we continue this video make sure to subscribe below and turn on the notification bell right now so you don't miss out on these great videos every single day [Music] so how do you deal in a negotiation with the kind of person who has to win who has to get everything they want they're very controlling alpha right and it's their way or no way well getting everything they want is actually third on their list first of all being in control is number one on their list and that's emotionally satisfying the second thing is the alpha type which is uh we refer to that as in the assertive the one thing that's more important to them than actually getting what they want is being respected and making sure that you know everything about what they're coming from so and it's a classic guy who's working for his boss and said you know what my boss didn't do what i wanted him to do but he heard me out or she heard me out i can live with the direction we're going as long as i know that my boss knows my opinion and so that the assertive type of negotiator it's really more important to them that they felt felt that they conducted themselves respected respectably that you respected them and that you knew what they were coming from and once they know those things they'll actually soften up on what they want if they feel disrespected they'll probably be more frustrated and angry and right demanding right right right right so yeah they're very demanding what they're really saying to you subtly is i want you to know how important this is to me right i want you to know how important i am so how do you meet that person just come to them with respect or with calm or you know you could say look you're you're impressive you're phenomenal you've thought it's all out this is very yeah i mean clearly you know where you're coming from you know what you want um i'm lucky to be talking to you at all right i mean if where to sit down with with donald trump i would in fact be lucky to be in the same room with him that'd be the first thing i'd say to him i'd say struck as he you're an right you know you're the symbol of american business certainly in new york city yeah you know stroking their ego it's not a bad thing one of them and you know it's a version of empathy because that's how they see themselves and you know the the the emotional recognition like emotional currency is not going to solve every deal i just don't want to try to solve any deal with money when i could have solved it with emotional currency i'm saving my money with emotional empathy currency intelligence right right my money's too important to me to waste it when i could buy something with satisfaction um so yeah i'm enormously tight with my balance and so many people well there are especially men in business deals i feel like there's a lot of alpha men who are trying to get what they want and so somehow they'll they'll lose money because they're not able to have empathy or they're not able to whatever they're not able to drop their ego yeah a lot a lot of a lot of money's left on the pay on the other table over stuff like that or what they value themselves out like price is the most price is the most emotional term in a negotiation because you value yourself based on price but if i can get you to value yourself in another way it puts you on a magazine cover i mean stroked ego in some other way it used to be you get donald trump in any magazine you wanted to if you put him on the cover you know imagine the amount of time and that used to be his deal if you want to do an article on donald trump the deal was he made the cover and and then he would knock himself out for the people doing the articles oh yeah on access anything answering questions imagine how valuable his time was they got to cover to the magazine anyway i put somebody on it right you know now they're trading something that costs them nothing right and he's giving him dynamic interviews and he's promoting him hard and he's sharing with everyone he's framing it everywhere and yeah interesting so you know you're buying donald trump with emotional recognition uh so what are the characteristics that make a great negotiator in your field and also how do those translate into the business and relationship world just in general outside of well let the other side go first um you know most people have are so so they're they're burning with their argument here's why you should make this deal and they've got that memorized and and that they're not going to listen to words you say till they get it out so trying to talk to them is really like trying to talk to a paranoid schizophrenic right because they're rehearsing their speech in their head and their logic and so they they just you just can't get through to them so you let them go you let them go first and um another guy ned coletti uh former gm of the dodgers friend of mine here in town phenomenal negotiator he's not lectured at uh in my class at usc also you know and ned always likes to let the other side go first you know he did the barry bonds deal he's done a ton of deals across the board and ned says well you know in a two-hour phone call there's going to be 90 seconds of solid gold where my the person i'm talking to based on changes that they made in their tonal voice and the adjectives that they used i mean he's got an instinct for it he couldn't he couldn't identify he's just always saying there's 90 seconds to sock gold and i'd say what is that right and we we talk a true he says well yeah it's going to be a change in a tone of voice it's going to be a different kind of adjective so ned wants you to go first because he wants to know what's going to take to make the deal what they want right yeah what they what their burden for or how they characterize what they have or what they're not saying too maybe exactly right what someone has failed to say is often a lot more important than what they have said which is why give it a little if thought in advance all right what they're gonna what are they gonna say if they if they've got this so i i actually like to look for more of what they haven't said what's glaringly missing and that's going to take i'm going to need you to walk through it a couple of times before that jumps out of me um okay okay um who are the most difficult people to work with then would you say it's the alpha people or you say it's the uncertain people or what type of people are hard to work in negotiation with you know you're talking about a little bit of a tight match that hasn't has a tendency it's a little bit based on how bad i want to make the deal like i don't like liars or i don't like the most difficult people to work with in the long run are people who haven't thought anything through which is as bad as a liar only their heart's not in the wrong place they don't know what they want right specifically or they don't know how how they're gonna they don't know how they're gonna get this done which is again we go over and over again i go over and over again yes there's nothing without how like and the person who thinks like yes is going to make a deal well yes it's not going to make a deal because you got to have how how we going to put this together and someone who doesn't think things through a lot of times they're actually kind of dysfunctional on their own side so they'll make promises they can't keep and they have no idea they can't keep those promises right and so when they take your deal you think you've done a deal with them they take it back to their company their company goes like no we're not doing this it's a stupid idea we can't do this sure and that happens a lot i think in in a private sector i've heard from a number of companies that fully 50 of the deals that they make that don't go through get killed internally because somebody cut a deal for them and they took it back to the company the company says no that that violates our terms and conditions right we can't deliver on that basis so you're dealing with someone who just has no uh doesn't have a clue as to what's going on on their side sure a lot of people like that when you're making a business deal what do you recommend as the amount of time to consider the deal before saying yes let's do it like um here's the deal points here's what you want here's what i want okay should we sign it right away should we give it 24 hours should we take it to our team should it be a week you know what's like kind of a standard you think um unless you've got something in line ahead of time company name is a black swan group because we believe there's black swans in every negotiation which is something you didn't know that as soon as you found out it's going to change all the parameters the deal gotcha so you sit down at the table to find out the unknowns huh and you it's impossible to research all the unknowns plus a lot of the unknowns i'll find them a lot faster if i just ask you right and i could research for two weeks something that i may be able to get you to tell me about in 10 minutes for example what do you mean something you'd want to ask um i'm do i'm speaking to a law for a long time client and they have another cup firm that i've been affiliated with coming doing a different block when i found out they were doing that block i could subtly reach back through my network to find out what the competing slash partnership firm of mine is what they're charging or i can just flat out ask them well i need to get the information a lot of information you got to get by not asking you got to trigger it you know the phrase ask good questions it's really get good information and a lot of times you won't tell me stuff if i ask but if i act like i already know or if there are other ways hostage negotiators trigger information without asking questions and hostage negotiators get that information and make you feel good about giving it at the same time so give me an example either in a hostage or a business deal what that kind of trigger could be well it's going to be it's going to be some sort of a statement i might say look i'm sure my my competing company is charging twice as much as i am oh and then they'll tell you the answer they want to correct me oh actually no it's the same or actually you're getting a better deal never underestimate the other side's desire to correct you wow because it makes people feel powerful and smart you know you're going to want to feel smarter than me one of one of my clients is negotiating a deal for a commercial office building in south carolina and it's uh it's almost 100 occupancy it's in a mixed use uh historic area so it means that the building can't be knocked down and nobody can build it because it's a historic area and so the building is basically impossible to replace and it's 100 occupancy it makes no sense to sell the building so they're genuinely thinking why is the seller selling first of all you can't ask why because why makes people defensive if i look at you and i say why did you wear a black shirt your instant thought is going to be like do i got to defend the black shirt yeah yeah yeah so you need to find out why we can't ask why because it makes people deficient so what would you ask there well then again you don't want to ask at all because if you're smarter you change your white wise to what's and it's more likely to respond if you say you know what's making the seller want to sell so you know what is causing them to do that not why are they selling but instead what my student did was he said well seems to me the seller's selling a cash cow because of a disbelief in the market fundamentals of the future of the building now let me correct you this is why i'm doing it exactly and the other side would like no no they got they got a couple buildings that are underwater now i don't i can't imagine a real estate agent answering that question ever i mean this is this is highly confidential all right prior thing for you know my sellers desperate for money is is what the what the answer was but because it was a correction and people love to correct they'll correct you without thinking it through it's an involuntary response a desire to sound smarter right right and correct you which is a burning desire in most people because it makes me feel smart more powerful and i'll seize every opportunity to feel smarter more powerful you at the table gosh it's like a chess it's emotional emotional chess i love this and how do women and men compare as negotiators as counter as counter powers either against each other or woman man woman woman man is there a difference see i think a powerful woman negotiates a woman who's really good at negotiation is almost unstoppable wow and i think that the reinforcement the societal reinforcement is constantly trying to pound men into being better negotiators and constantly trying to pound women away from it and i think that i think the um to step from sympathy to empathy is a shorter step and women are socialized to be sympathetic and i don't think that you know whether or not it's nature or nurture i know there's a lot more pressure societally and culturally culturally for women to be like that and i in my class women pick my style of negotiation up faster than the men do and the women go to my class start cutting bigger and better deals faster than the men do in business or in life or in just in both gotcha so in in my view i think that like after they graduate they go on to do well in the class okay you got you got to negotiate with skin in the game in my class and almost all of my students are rising star business executives so um mock negotiations they're making more is what you're saying no in real life real life you can take down my stuff and put it in real life while you're in my class and you've got to write about it wow and uh one you know i've got everything from a billion dollar wall street transaction people in my class use the tools for i get a usc get a lot of commercial real estate state transactions wow a lot of people buying commercial real estate that are that are working on mbas they've got a lot of those transactions got uh you know my favorite my favorite way to say no which i got you know the how question before the favorite way to say no was how am i supposed to do that just real calm deferences great power and deference you know that's and that's what i did in kidnappings bank robberies everything how am i supposed to do what if they say i don't care figure it out or she's dead well then you know that you've pushed them as far as you can and that means you've got to pivot to something else now and and that's actually where you want to get to because the strategy of negotiation is find out you want to max every term if you can and the only way to max that is to find out that i've hit you to the full limit without making you angry enough that you slam your hands down and walk away because even your reaction someone or you shoot someone your reaction to this now it's like look you got to do it or things are going to go bad and it was uh one of my one of my students here in town is negotiating for uh uh for a luxury client to rent a house in hollywood hills and you know 20 grand a month was a rental and they were trying to get the rental they were trying to lease try to get it yeah and so the person said it's 20 grand a month right yeah and and it's for very well his clients extremely wealthy so you know and you negotiate a wealthy market the other side always thinks you got all the money in the world and so uh he just said how am i supposed to do that and they said okay well and they shifted the terms and he cut the price and he moved a bunch of other terms around then they negotiated for a while longer and then he said again on the price he says how my client how's my client supposed to pay that and the realtor says if your client wants a house he's got a pat bang you got a deal when the other side says if you want it you have to do it which will come usually after the second third time that you said how am i supposed to do that knock it down a little more on a car real estate deal whatever it is now now you've maxed that term now you move on to something else so you make the deal but you needed to know that you pushed him as far as you could have without them storming out without them saying chris voss is not any fun to deal with i would never do business with him again how am i supposed to do that in a differential way right they still feel in control they're not you're not saying screw you that's too much like what are you out of your mind you know right and if you don't make the deal at that point then what they say after the fact they say you know uh i didn't make a deal but i deal with them again um you know they they're they're alright they're all right to uh to deal with did they get the least how much did they get yeah they got it how much you know uh they they knocked it down to less than 20 and then they got some softness on some other terms yeah and then they then they cut the deal for the house there you go and i wish i was paying 20 grand a month for a house that's a lot of money for a house 20 grand a month wow that's a rich rich student yeah well usc they get you know people that are involved in a lot of lucrative deals yeah yeah so you're saying what is the importance of empathy in a negotiation when i'm hearing you say it is extremely important and that's why you feel like a woman would be a better negotiator in general because they have more empathy in general or well it's the shortest most people have confused sympathy with empathy okay what's the difference um empathy is i can see you're upset it's just identifying how you feel uh sympathy is like wow i feel bad for you [Music] feeling sorry or bad for someone is sympathetic sympathy it's it's it is in fact it doesn't help anybody like i don't care if you feel bad for me right i could care less so sympathy is not a good thing sympathy is a weakness as a negotiator it's a negotiation empathy is a good thing empathy uh and tactical empathy because we've really taken a past just empathy in general like we've been doing this long enough that i know what i'm looking for before we sit down i know that i need to find out the stuff that are negative emotions for you because i need to get them out of the way of the deal and i need to find out the stuff that are positive emotions for you because i want to reinforce that to make the deal and i know that the negatives are going to be a bigger deal to you than the positives are so can you give an example of this in a business deal with that well if i don't if i don't like doing business with donald trump at all then if he get if he's annoying me to the point where i get enough satisfaction keeping money out of his hands i won't make that deal or if i'm in a business deal where the other side and i've thought about this like you annoy me so much that i don't want you to get any dad i'll take less money to keep you out right so how did you eliminate something like that that negative in the deal so that you could well then then say like i i if i think that you're negative towards me i'm going to say look i'm sure it seems like i'm greedy here if i say to you like i'm sure i'm going to seem very greedy here that sets me up to ask for a lot of money because there's actually um science that backs this up now identifying the negative diminishes at every time so if i'm going to make a big grab for the money you're going to think i'm greedy and i need to get that out of the way because if i'm too greedy you're gonna you're gonna get some satisfaction by keeping me from the money even if you don't get any right and so i'm gonna say look i'm gonna seem real greedy here i'm gonna seem like i'm very self-centered and that i'm greedy and then i'm not looking out for you at all and i'll just let it set and you'll take a lot more from me a lot a lot you you'll allow me to take more if i've said that in advance up front really yeah because i've diminished that your your thought is like i mean how i i can never seem too greedy when i make that grab you're gonna say well he was honest with me told me he wanted a lot of money he didn't try to say hey look let's do a win-win deal now give me all the money right because if i say i want to do a win-win day with you i'm like hey i'll be nice to you i'll look out for you and then you try to take 90 and give me 10. it's like oh it's not a good deal yeah but when you say it up front then you're more likely to get the deal yeah and get more of whatever you want right i'm gonna i'm gonna seem very honest to you i'm gonna you you're gonna like that i was honest with you and you're gonna say after the fact like look he was honest i always knew where he was coming from i didn't like the deal but i did it anyways or whatever yeah huh okay it's yeah that's crazy it's that's just the stuff that we found out that works regularly we had to talk about another one we talked about in the book there was a multi-million dollar deal going down in washington dc the subcontractor was very unhappy with the general contractor and a female negotiator and they were getting ready to lose everything and they sat down and they said you know i'm sure we seem like the big guy that doesn't care about you i'm sure we seem like the big general contractors trying to take complete advantage of the sub and not appreciate how hard you're working for this and not care about your future at all and she turned that deal around when she was done she took an additional million in profit for herself and her company and the other side liked them more so not only did they increase the profit but they had a better relationship this is why being honest upfront or empathetic or i can see how you might feel that we're going to do this it's a tactical approach there are negatives here we're going to address the negatives up front and we're going to make them go away yeah address them up front most people don't want to do that i already did that do you know when i did that to you one i've already done it remember when we talked about doing the one-on-one role play yeah i said it was going to be horrible oh it's true you said it up front yeah and i always i always do that every single time the same way because if you do the role play with me no matter how it goes i you know you're going to feel like you were beaten beaten up right but at least you told me i was going to be right and you can't come out that's why i say horrible you know you can't ever say well he sandbagged me you know he caught me off guard right and then then what i always do then i i diffuse the negative and then i pitch the positive and most people pitch the positive and hope the negative will go away they sandwich the negative positive negative positives i don't like sandwich at all start with the negative start with the negative and i said and you will learn more than anyone else and the way we do it uh in the in spec ops is we we control what we can control so some some people have referred to it kind of control your three-foot world right but it doesn't have to extend it's not a it's not a three-foot thing it's it's what in this moment can i control and then take control of that right because then you are grabbing on to certainty

Channel: Lewis Howes

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Keywords: Lewis Howes, Lewis Howes interview, school of greatness, self help, self improvement, self development, personal development, success habits, success, wealth, motivation, inspiration, inspirational video, motivational video, success principles, millionaire success habits, how to become successful, success motivation, evy poumpouras interview, chris voss interview, how to read anyone, evy poumpouras women of impact, chris voss negotiation, chris voss masterclass, lie detector

Id: AH6p0MLc67E

Length: 123min 38sec (7418 seconds)

Published: Fri Jun 18 2021