What will the Lion do next? With @majorkill

The Fabulous major kill how you doing today mate yeah very good good day good day it's good to good to be on um I guess it's a bit of like a continuation of our chat that was uh on Friday or Saturday or something but this time we're focusing on the Dark Angels which um from what I understand we're both absolute nerds for both of us have our own little armies um so would you like to tell me a bit about yours first yeah I mean I've collected AR angels for many years they are they are my faves and I know that they're your favorite Legion as well so I just thought yeah you'd be the perfect person just kind of nerd out about them I sometimes get in trouble I think for talking about the lion too much on this channel oh mate I definitely don't you I think my time you know it is my time you know people have to remember Prim marks come back once every you know six years or 30 years and so this just this never happens and it's just it's it's the coolest time to be a Dark Angels fan and the the dice is still yet to fall across the Imperium as to the impact of this massive change and yeah sorry anyway so my Dark Angels collection yeah i' collected Dark Angels for many years I actually played Dark Angels both 30k and 40K which is a lot of fun and I was just saying to Major kill before we started that like the they've released so many Terminators iterations of them over so many years that my Deathwing has now become significantly larger than the actual Deathwing which is quite funny but it's uh kind of too many Terminators right well I mean you're going to probably have to stack it out even more have you seen the uh the new the death knuts of the Deathwing or something the new dark angel unique teries yeah the death we nights very nice I have got one Squad of them um I got the new box and with that box came glorious that was the perfect transition and the Glorious new gex and so i' I've been reading that this week and um yeah I've actually got a video coming out on it later this week but I thought you and I could just nerd out on it as well at the moment and we would talk about five pretty big topics for the Dark Angels right now and I guess personally for the lion so five things I wanted to go over are what he's going to do about Luther about Cipher about Gilman the Space Wolves and the old King which is um we'll talk more about him later but starting off then with Luther so in the Dark Angels codex we actually find out that the lion has multiple secret chambers within the Rock and one of them is very close to Luther's uh prison where he used to where he dwell for 10,000 years and was regularly tortured by the chapter masters of the Dark Angels and the lion will go in there periodically and like meditate and he'll and you know think to himself and he's trying to use his Forest walking ability and his Forest walking ability is it's kind kind of like the Tardis I think of it it seems to take him to wherever he needs to go and so I can't help but wonder he's hoping that it will it will take him to Luther so for 10,000 years major kill Luther has protested his uh his his Redemption and that the lion will one day return and redeem him what do you think do you think he's a changed man well I haven't actually read the Luther book but I've seen exits and stuff from it and from like what I've read um he actually seems like a pretty reasonable guy at least he was for a little while and then you know kind of slip in and out of insanity and whatnot um but I I actually think that or I really hope that it's not just going to be a Luther becomes mustache twirling villain vers the lion I think that would be such a waste the Fallen is some of the most interesting parts of the entire law like and so far they're doing a great job with the Risen and how each Fallen faction was actually differently motivated and wasn't very United um obviously I'm not sure how i' feel about Luther and lion going for buddy buddy but I I think there's definitely some light at the end of the tunnel I think there's going to be a bit of an interesting fatherson reunion maybe like a bit of sweet um and I'm very very keen for it cuz there's going to be a few pretty cool reunions kind of popping around here and there yeah absolutely oh I just ruined everything uh yeah absolutely I do think that I think it's unlikely at this point that we would see Luther properly into chaos and the reason I say that and you shouldn't do this when you're talking about law but I feel like if they were going to do this we'd already have had some sort of indication that we're getting a proper Fallen rage and that that's not even slightly on the horizon I don't think if anything narratively The Games Workshop has kind of removed the foen from the setting it's very much implied that the overwhelming majority of Fallen were actually kind of of loyal to the emperor at the very least and so they're now going to become the Risen so how many members of the Dark Angels that Luther has now we don't know it's interesting that it's interesting how this story has evolved from codex to codex so of course for 10,000 years we had Luther protesting his innocence in the last Edition we have this uh and the previous Edition we have these quotes about the fool and gathering in Legion strength now they we have the introduction of the Risen which suggests a lot of them are actually loyal so they're not joining Luther and in this book I will say and sorry I I should have probably started with this but there is a slight change to the wording around it's saying that Luther actually was aware that the lion was well it did always say that Luther thought the lion was nearby but now it's now it's saying in the book that Luther knew the lion was nearby and he never told any of the chapter Masters who interrogated him which is a bit of an interesting change because that that's the only only thing I can find that suggests proper malevolence on Luther's part yeah I mean it's hard to say if it was exactly malevolence because maybe like it just wasn't the right time like you know cuz if he said yeah the Li's like in a room nearby you know the the Dark Angels would have dug holes in the Rock they may have found the line eventually who would have been unconscious and it would have kind of thrown things out of whack and maybe he wouldn't have returned when he needed to return so I think the Watchers probably I don't know for a fact but probably would have kind of spoken to Luther a little bit and maybe been a bit like Yo dude like don't tell the chapter Masters but yeah in the same vein like there could also still be that dark side of Luther still lurking and trying to like keep things Hush Hush but I I I think there's going to be a very very hopefully very like in-depth interesting Exposition that kind of just feels Us in because the dark angel in a deep LW is just very very convoluted and very very open to interpretation that's true yeah no that is true it's what they it's what they do best and I guess I guess yeah exactly as you say there one of the things about Luther is that he he is still sustained by the gifts of chaos so the book says that whilst his mind is absolutely addled because of you know 10,000 years of torture at the same time his body has been sustained by the gifts of chaos so it is interesting I think Games Workshop are trying to keep it as um down to the wire as possible as to whether or not Luther is actually loyal or not but um or you know least whether he has redeemed however I think I if I was to guess I think we're going to get some sort of heroic Redemption of Luther that's that's how I imagine it going down and I I I don't think there's any way that he's ever going to be integrated into the Dark Angels again you know he is the arch traitor for the for The Unforgiven so I just I don't see that happening and the Lion's whole thing in his novel is that when he meets the Dark Angels he executes them if he can see that they have been touched by chaos or they've accepted Gifts of chaos and there's one instance for example where there's actually a member of the foolen who kind of redeems himself and serves the lion towards the end but because he had been touched by chaos the still sadly executes him because he's like you know so you know and the dark angel kind of welcomes this in the novel so it's kind of Interest go so that suggests to me that there's no chance that Luther can possibly come back because at the end of the day he has accepted all of the all of the chaos gods in actual fact I think there's a quote in it might be the Dreadwing novel where it says that after the fall of Horus lupaca the chaos Gods basically pull all their power back and put it into Luther so it's um yeah I can't see the lion allowing this to be honest yeah I don't think we're going to have like new Luther model that is supposed to fight alongside the lion model per se at least not anytime soon but I mean a bit of a segue now but the Inner Circle companions those are risen right like is that are we confident in that or is that open to interpretation I guess I guess we don't know for sure uh but it is very much implied that they are so it's one thing about that them that's quite funny is that the lion is basically doing what we expected him to do um in that he kind of sometimes pops down to the cells of the interrogator chaplins and if there's any fo in in there he'll be like everyone get out and then all the interrogator chaplains leave and when they come back in then the the falling are gone and the fo and the interrogator chapl even as interrog chaplains even as stubborn as they are they don't question the lion however there's a couple of things about that slight that kind of made me laugh the first is that sometimes he doesn't take them out because if he goes in and he finds out that that that dark angel has been corrupted by chaos he'll leave them to be tortured and killed and the other thing is that he also doesn't do this immediately it seems like the book kind of implies that he'll occasionally come down and I'm like wait so you just allow them to get tortured for like a little bit if they're entirely innocent made me laugh yeah it's the lion he's the one that gave the guns to PAB after all so he doesn't exactly have all these marbles together but yeah too see this is where you're going to find me sing way too hard I think but like uh like the the L that is the part of this the Horus heresy where the emperor was duked by um isan 5 so I think people are too harsh on Old Lion he's uh in that regard so you know falling prey to the incredible Charisma of Perabo is uh you know what could you what else could you do you know true he is a very convincing people person isn't he yeah it's what he does um cool so yeah that's kind of Luther down I think we're pretty aligned there um moving on then to everybody's favorite member of the fo in cyer what's your thoughts on Cipher or the Lord Cipher I guess to use his his older title uh well we talked about a little bit before I think on when when we had our last stream but are we are we confident that it's course way are we still that's that's what we're kind of leaning on isn't it I I think there's an argument to say that maybe it's like some sort of mixture there's a um a plotline involving um Mariana who is the uh there a prophetes who serves abdon in 40K and there's like this Soul merging ability that's demonstrated and so that we have seen this in the heresy now where two beings can have their minds kind of melded together but generally oh yeah I I I think so it could be cor way and zahari what I'm trying to say but generally I got to go with course Wayne because it just it's such a better story in my opinion I think it's think it's far better I think that merging that idea actually the more I think about it the more I'm kind of confident in it because I mean Zahara was the protagonist of what like three books like that he had a lot of focus on him like probably more than most characters um absolutely so I it would it would be interesting for them not to use him Beyond like you know him just kind of getting killed off Page by cor way or maybe you know would see it in the scouring series or whatever uh but yeah I think either core or um but is it in the last sorry if this is kind of spoilery territory but in the end and Death volume 3 zahariel and cor Wayne team up don't they to relight the astronomicon um okay interesting so it's it's hard to know for sure and I think that's why games work were delaying releasing the cipher lion reunion or you know whatever um because I'm pretty confident that the line would know who it is straight away and that's the mystery of Cipher gone um so I think GW want to kind of milk that for a bit more cash before they let it all on the table yeah that's fair enough I mean I yeah I I get that so yeah exactly as you say there is this huge storyline in the Horus heresy and and Siege of Terror around the it's a big recck on to The Siege is the Dark Angels appearing during the siege of Terror and they're led by cor Wayne and then it's revealed that um there's actually some members of the Fallen amongst those Dark Angels now what's really interesting about this storyline is that zahariel is a staunch member of the Fallen he kind of doesn't care about the Wier Imperium he just hates the lion and he wants calite Independence and despite that he still serves under cor way very faithfully and he actually you know Rouses all the Dark Angels to cor way side and he does he's instrumental in getting the astronomican relit and that's astronomican being relit with the power of the faith and euphrat Kila is the final thing that gives the emperor the power that he needs at least it's implied this is what happens to destroy Horus so that that Dark Angels plot line becomes very vital and that that did potentially change my viewpoint on Zario because throughout most of the heresy he's a very I think he's a pretty he starts off obviously quite naive and young and nice character but he becomes a very evil character so he is corrupted by this device called the or robus which is it's basically like an old ones warp drive it's one of the ones that vasor has now and then later on he finds out that the lion brutally killed his cousin and I hate that scene so much the death of and and it's like the things about those things is that neither of those change with the destruction of canaban the or the oroborus is not destroyed or Ora Boris and people always getet of me when however I say it and uh also his hatred for the lion isn't just going to go away it's not like the lion all of a sudden will be like oh sorry I killed your cousin are we good now I I don't I that's that's what I can't get over I just can't get over that fact so yeah that that's the thing and I think I think course way is such a it would be such a beautiful storyline for me because cor way is this phenomenal character and beloved by even non Dark Angels fans everybody likes bwin and the idea that you know it's him that loyally served for 10,000 years kind of I think it's just it's it's you know so narratively redeeming for the Dark Angels because of course they're T the typical thing people mention about them is that some of them did objectively kind of turn a little bit traitor is and I think it would be so nice that to also have this like legendary figure who served for 10K years but his his storyline you know Cipher has become you know ever more intriguing for me his his book by John French was really interesting and it's tough because there's so much you know questionable storytelling because it's from Cipher's perspective but he is a fascinating character and the things that he hints at are making me think that it was actually Cipher who awoke the lion in when the lion awakes because the lion still doesn't know how and why he woke up one of the things Cipher kind of suggests that is that the powerful swords of the Dark Angels so the heaven full blades Luther's sword they could act as Keys within the Rock and therefore so could the lion the lion sword so potentially the lion sword was some sort of key to unlock part of the rock that I I don't know the circumstances but somehow this allowed the lion to be awakened that's proba that's where my mind's at currently I think it'll be a combination of things I think you've got Cipher with the lion sword you've got the emperor which I think or that we're going to touch on pretty soon um and then yeah you'd also have the Watchers I think it kind of all in tand them cuz the watches were the ones that kind of knocked the I mean Luther locked the knocked the line out but the Watchers were the ones that kind of tucked him away um and they are considered to be like Cosmic entities of near infinite power so yeah I think it'll be very interesting um hopefully GW don't [ __ ] tease us too long about it because and I I mean I don't think they will because all these new dark angel releases are insane like new B like custom Deathwing Terminators asmodai the upgrade sprew the Inner Circle companions like that is like a insane single faction Focus amount of releases like they probably have the most amount of custom models out of all the chapters now I'd assume like maybe even more than the black Templars uh yeah I guess black Templar probably on a Model basis win it but unitwise yeah unitwise Dark Angels might have it but yeah and this the thing we've only had half of the Dark Angels and it's quite funny actually on like a little side point because one of the things I think vak has done a video on this actually and I looked in the Codex and it looks it very much looks to me like that there is a new Ezekiel model in the background of one of the photos but games work the because they've had so many I don't know what the issues are but they've had so many issues with their like shipping and all that kind of thing that he never got released in time and yeah likewise you know there's no there's no Deathwing range the Deathwing range has been kind of gutted I don't think that was deliberate so it is quite funny it does seem to be the case that we're waiting for a lot of other stuff um but I oh sorry go ahead I'm sorry to interrupt um I I would say that as we know Games Workshop chases the money um and if this range sells as well as I probably think it will and I can definitely imagine them pumping out more lion books more Dark Angel books like I don't know the numbers but I assume the Lion Son of the forest novel sold like [ __ ] crazy if part of my French like I I bought it I think a lot of other people would have as well I think that's absolutely true and the Dark Angels are you know one of the you know four or five Big Space Marine chapters that they're always going to they know are going to sell well and Prim marks make things sell as well that um yeah in a way the Dark Angels release has been massively hampered by these release schedules and there were so few Dark Angels um so few line boxes that actually got made when he first came out so those sales would have been like artificially hampered but that I'm you know just anecdotally from talking to people so many people are so interested in the Dark Angels now and actually like oh I might pick up some of those boxes even if you don't like the dark angel you might pick up those Terminators and convert them to be your own just pry cool um yeah sorry just on Cipher the other thing I just want to talk about briefly regarding him is like his his mission because one of the things we find out in the uh the siphon novel is that when he when he finds when he gets to the he's about to enter the throne room and there's it's a it's it's a very funny book if you haven't read the book I would recommend it it's a really enjoyable book it's like a Heist novel is the only way I can describe it set in the gold in the Imperial Palace and when I say a heist novel it's because it keeps like you find out later on in the book that oh Cypher had planned for this and he'd planned for this and this and this and there's these crazy things like the reason that Cipher escapes the black cells on terror that he was imprisoned in after he sorted rbout Gilman to to terror is because it implies like like 300 years earlier Cipher orchestrated a heart attack in a worker a mechanicum worker in some Factory that made pieces one of which got used in some of the doors in the dark cells and he orchestrated this heart attack just as he was working on the piece that would be used in the Imperial Palace and so it it it when the the Great Rift opened this caused uh yeah it to fail and so Cipher apparently had accounted for all of these things which is just like it's so funny and it's um yeah it's very much yeah kind of uh yeah laughing itself in that respect but one of the things towards the end of the novel Cipher everything goes to plan pretty much all most of the fall and all of the fall and die except Cipher the dark angs the following him they're all killed fighting against the custodian and and yeah he finishes like I think the last two maybe and the custodian who's been chasing him across the Imperial Palace is also killed and he on as he's about to die has a message from the emperor sent to him now there's two things about this message that are wild the first is that he does contact this custodian from a city of dust as this custodian is walking through a street he's in like a Dusty City and the other one is that he tells Cipher not yet which is a very weird and cryptic message and yeah I was yeah any idea what you think not yet means um I suppose it means like not yet to like me cuz I know cyppher was trying to have an audience with the emperor like he was that was his condition for helping Gilman that was kind of like his whole uh like gag about it and even if he didn't expect to actually make it into the throwing room he seemed pretty keen on it so perhaps he was going to the emperor to kind of activate some kind of protocol um maybe involved with a lion sword or something like people I guess would originally think it could have been the Awakening of the line that already happened um so it must be something else so I I think he probably just said yeah it's not time to do whatever that you want to do and maybe what he wants to do is have his audience with the line but hard to know would C up yeah yeah I mean M is to say something about the Awakening of the the lion we don't really know the exact timeline on the Lion's Awakening so it's it's kind of tough to say most people think assuming it's around the time that Luther got awakened I don't think I don't think the lion really knows um we don't know how long he was in that Forest before he was awakened so it's kind of a it's kind of an interesting one um yeah it's yeah it's pretty wild and yeah I um yeah I I kind of didn't like that message I'll be honest with you I was a bit disappointed by it because I don't I I can't really think think of any good reason that the emperor said this because at the end of the day the the this hasn't moved the plot point on whatsoever and Cipher isn't going to be able to get back into the Imperial Palace at least for thousands of years you know this clearly took massive amounts of planning before he actually begins this Heist he is working with the harlequins I assume he needed their foresight and guidance to actually pull pull this thing off yeah at least their wisdom and so I don't see this happening again so I can't imagine Cipher getting back to Terror anytime soon there is talk in the book about how the lion sword is an executioner blade and so potentially there's something around that but I don't think I don't think we're anywhere near the emperor being you know killed in Warhammer 40K to be reborn so I I just don't see that happening but yeah I was I be honest I was a bit disappointed in that line I just I don't get I they could have just done something like if if is the lion if it is cipher that awakens the line or something like that they could have just made it more intriguing I felt I know about you yeah I mean I haven't quite gotten to that book yet I definitely it's definitely on my list um hard to know but I think that's just kind of what GW does they like to make those books that are like really fun and interesting and good to read but kind of end up just being a bit of a nothing Burger um they do that all the time because you know they don't want to progress the plot line too fast too quickly CU then you know they ran out of law or you know like one prime like every six years I think you said before I think that's what they're doing for the Loyalists that's that's kind of like a 30-year plan or so which is crazy to think about so I think we're I'm hoping that we get some juicy Dark Angel law soon uh but I I wouldn't hold my breath for Cipher stabbing the emperor and then the emperor getting off the Golden Throne and you know going in Sayo style quite yet we'll just have to wait and see cuz I I think with ccii I think they want it to be as unpredictable as possible and I think they want to have some crazy plot twist yeah I think um yeah I think you're all right it's interesting you say about whether we'll get like plot movement anytime soon because it's the Dark Angels plot line is kind of stable for now as in like the lion is in Imperium niist doing what everyone kind of expected he's got his little protector he's traveling off doing these quests all over Imperium Nas but generally speaking it's you know it doesn't it doesn't need to progress much further if they don't do anything with the lion story line for five years for example it would probably be fine I hope they don't I hope they move it on but it would probably work so it's it's quite interesting um someone in chat has commented yes uh think it might be a tie-in with the King and yellow plotline yeah I promise I won't bring up the king and yellow every stream but this is something that I I couldn't I couldn't help put my mind to because the it's a very specific scene so this custodian has this as he as he's dying the emperor keeps him alive so that this custodian can deliver a message to Cipher and this custodian has a vision and he he walks through a a like literally a Dusty City so it is yeah it could be wild and I think that Cypher is probably the trickiest part of the Lion's return for black library because he is such a popular character and he is beloved by all like the emperor himself almost and uh we just don't know you know how he can survive into the new Dark Angels even if his course way was aario because as we've discussed he he he he might well have been touched by chaos because he has survived for 10,000 years and come Incredibly Close to some very terrible people so yeah it's a tough one and in that book I should say you know we do there are Servants of chaos that meet Cipher and they are really cloying for him they really want this son of the lion and he is he's you know he's right on the edge of course as you know the nature of his character which is kind of cool um but yeah I I guess the main thing that makes me think we going get something new is because I was so surprised and happily surprised that the Dark Angels got so much focus in the siege of Terror because it would I just didn't see that happening but the the darks get so many so many pages and they become integral to the plotline essentially all ties together and yeah it's it's all around this character of Cipher and this this you know cour Wayne zahar Dynamic has been built up so much and in Luther's novel he says that the two will droel during the destruction of calaban and so yeah we're going to have to see who comes out on top there but that's where that's where that's where it makes logical sense for me to get that switch and and make it be course way but I imagine I'll enjoy it no matter what we put yeah bet I think in terms of like before we move on in terms of the things that will cause large plot Point move forward potentially for the Dark Angels I think as you said the end of the Inquisition series cuz I feel like there's going to be ramifications for the whole setting um and then we're just going to have to wait for the scouring to see what actually happened to all our fan favorite characters um but until then and then of course like any new dark angel or any new lion book that comes out which I I'm I'm expecting to cuz I mean we've had that cipher book recently the Luther book was pretty recent the lion book was pretty recent uh so hopefully people just bought them like Mad Men which I think probably would have happened so we'll get more that's that's the yeah no you make a very good point and like it's funny because one of the things that I will probably try and do now is look at which books are just even being announced and coming out because for example we had Luther a couple of years before and we had Cipher a couple years before what one thing about Luther's novel is that it was kind of it was very necessary them to make this book because Luther's you in if you read the Horus heresy you actually never see Luther fo to chaos at no point in the heresy does he kind of fool it's like implied he's like getting worse but you don't see him accept these gifts from gods or you know do deals with demons and all this kind of thing he's he's by no means the worst of the fallen in in the series and so they we got to the end of the horor heresy and it was almost like they went oh damn we forgot to make leave the fo to chaos and so they had to release this extra book which you know prob you know in hindsight maybe should have been fitted into the actual heresy where and that book covers Luther's entire story and how he actually ends up being corrupted by chaos um I sorry I realized I've kind of neglected chat somewhat um how long do you think it'll be until we get a conclusion to the rangda sloth plot lines one of the parts of the law I'm most hyped by any thoughts I think yeah I think you I think I have seen your video on Thea so any thoughts on um vda you think you'll ever see them again uh to be honest I reckon that's going to be in the category of mysterious [ __ ] that GW only ever touch if they're going bankrupt it's like like the rang there was a few other things there was the like stuff like the Halo Stars the ghoul Stars I think GW loves their kind of lovecraftian esque mysteries that are kind of sprinkled here and there um so I mean who knows maybe we'll get a dark angel book kind of done in the similar vein to kind of how Luther's book was done that kind of you know jumps forward him back in time or you know maybe infinite Divine where it does end up kind of referencing it uh cuz I mean they did end up kind of referencing the ification Wars and some of that a little bit which was previously quite mysterious so I guess we'll see but I don't think anytime soon I just don't want to make a note I was looking at I quickly looked up the Luther book cipher book and the lion book and I I don't know if this is like me looking into it too much but the title structure is like kind of the same like they do the name like Luther firstus the Fallen cyer lord of the Fallen The Lion Son of the forest so they kind of almost feel like it's like a disjointed series Almost so I don't know who knows maybe like that's kind of like the thing they've got going on and they've been releasing them pretty frequently like 2021 2023 2023 so by that logic we probably should get another one this year hopefully yeah I think there's a good I'm hoping we get that obviously we've got the Lazarus book coming out but that's probably not going to be as impactful as as those three but yeah that would be really cool um yeah I get what you're saying on the rangda I think the problem with them is that they are from my point of view I think they're two intrinsically linked with the second or 11th or both primarchs so and they are right at the end of things DW will pull out the bag when they're about to go bankrupt so that yeah I just don't see them coming anytime soon but I also I will say if it is going to come out it will come out we might get some knowledge with the Dark Angels because I believe the Dark Angels are the only people left that have a Cod decease on how to fight against the rangda in the law and yeah I think yeah the line might have the best memory intact one of my head canons I think is that one of the reasons we get so much conflicting information is because I don't think any of the primarch have the correct information on the rangda I think they probably all remember it differently and remember the second and 11th primarch differently because I think that the emperor just messed with all their minds to make sure none of them could have found out the truth and then he forbade the to talk about it so that they never find out that they all had the wrong information um so maybe one of them has the correct knowledge or something like that but I yeah that's I always thought something like that could be fun because we do see the emperor mess with the Dark Angels Minds at like a legion level um in the in the unification Wars is pretty cool um so um cool right let's move on then to probably the thing people are most hyped about actually which is the lion and Gillman and we spoke about this actually during the stream on your channel we did a stream on the major plot lines of 40K right now and the reason I I'm so excited for this is because I love unremembered Empire which is a novel in the heresy where Gilman and the lion meet and one thing I've said to you before is that I actually think the lion and gilban have probably the most indepth relationship out of all of the primar because they get we they get so much coverage if anything the you know unremembered Empire segment of the heresy gets a little bit of blow to it I don't think we needed that many books but like we get so much on the line and Gilman they H they start they are fascinating relationship to me because and I I said this before and I say again people always get annoyed at me when I say this quote there's a quote from rabut Gillman in unremembered Empire where he says there are only two primar he's ever properly looked up to and they are Horus lupaca and lion l Johnson and you know he even references sanguinius and Leman Russ and talks about these people and says there's bits about them that I admire but the only two promarks I actually look up to are the lion and Horus and I know people hate that idea because everyone loves sanguinius but you have to remember during the Great Crusade the lion was an absolute King he was everybody thought he was just ridiculous and the Dark Angels were so beloved and they had all this extra trust from the emperor and they were the first Legion and that meant something all this kind of thing anyway um however that is not that does not mean a loving relationship ship you will also notice that the lion is not mentioned in The Dauntless few The Dauntless few are the primar that Gillman thinks are most dependable and who he could if he fought with any of them they could take on any other combination and the reason the lion doesn't make it into the dless view is because gilan can't trust the guy he just can't trust him and therefore he can't rely on the lion to work with him and their relationship it goes on a massive Journey the lion keeps it a secret that he had Conrad Kur as a prisoner at the start and then he continually keeps things secret from Gillman um and yeah when they they they end on relatively good terms in the book ruin storm and you know they of course say goodbye to sanguinius for the final time and both of them love sanguinius very dearly so it's it you know we do find out in the LI um Li son of the forest that he is immensely sad about the death of sanguinius and yeah potentially there's so much that you know all these things are kind of for me feeding into how their their reunion will go so what do you think major kill how do you think how do you think it will go down in your head I think it will go down I mean knowing them it's like I reckon that'll be pretty sweet like Gillman's kind of this really just wants a brother he really just wants help with running his kingdom and and the line's quite mature now uh he doesn't really like bullshitting people he doesn't like double crossing people he just wants to go around the Galaxy and [ __ ] [ __ ] up like like that's all he wants to do he wants to kill everything that isn't an uncorrupted human and he's really good at it and I think Gilman will have zero issue with that so I think it's going to be nice and wholesome I think initially that Gillam is going to be [ __ ] himself I think the alliance's also going to be feeling pretty apprehensive about it um but I think it'll actually be quite a wholesome nice moment I hope Games Workshop take that time to actually make it a nice you know winning moment for the Imperium instead of kind of being like all right let's craft like this you know hectic thing where they almost go to war but then at the last second they don't end up doing it like I I think it would be nice just for them to make a wholesome story for once yeah no I think that would be very cool and yeah no I I love that and I love this idea mentioned this you before but I just really like it I love this idea that it's like a mirror to their meeting in 30k as in when they meet in 30k there's so much tension going on and the Gillman at that point in the novel is thinking about making the lion this kind of um imperal Regis of Imperium secundus and you know he's like oh but then I have to work under the lion and that's going to be hell he actually says like of all of my brothers why did it have to be the lion he says that at the same time saying he looks up to him so that's how for me that's one of the things that makes me think that relationship is so complex and you know the lion is is is very loud about the fact that he wants to be warm he even talks about being a warm before a warm is even officially a thing and it said that back on terror people are already starting to think that the lion will be made warm and and suggests that the main reason he doesn't become one is because of the disaster for the Dark Angels that comes after the rangdan xenocides when like I think I think 60,000 Dark Angels die or something like that and yeah I I like to think in 40K we're going to get this complete change where now now the lion isn't interested in becoming you know he's not interested in replacing Gillman or running the Imperium or you know when we look at his protectorate he doesn't say you know you have to swear falty to me he just says I'll protect you if you need it and I'll kill you if you turn to chaos but like it's just it's he's such a different character he doesn't even supplant Dante as the Regent of Imperium nius right he's such a changed character and he's gone on this massive character Arc and now when I think he sees Gill I'm I'm hoping for a hug I'm I'm not going to lie give give me the hug be a beautiful moment it would be bring that Vulcan Vibe back in some way yeah yeah it would be great one of the things that I think was actually really interesting about their relationship is um vasor because one of the things that vasor finds out in uh one of the things RoR finds in 40K are these warp drives old ones warp drives is what they're suggested to be and one of them is the AR robus the thing that corrupts Cipher and it was like at the heart of caliban one of them is called plague heart which was previously had under the control of typhus of the death guard and one of them is the tacha engine which the lion finds during the heresy and he actually plugs this into the Invincible reason and allows it it gives it's incredibly smart it's very creepy device and it communicates with the lion through the body of like a dead child is really weird but um um interestingly in the towards the end of the Horus heresy Gillman is becoming quite suspicious of the lion again because the lion keeps finding things out that he shouldn't know so the lion discovers for example that to get back to Terror they must go through Davin which is the planet where Horus lupal fell and so how could how could the line possibly know this and the reason he knew this was because of the tacha engine and the lion never told Gilman or sanguinius this and the Dark Angels kept this device for 10,000 years and ultimately Vash door has now got his hands on that device and it's potentially cataclysmic for the Imperium so almost immediately the secrecy of the lion is going to come up as a factor despite the fact he's gone through all this character Arc and I I wonder like if that's a chance for the lion to kind of apologize and actually kind of be like yeah I messed up here I should have told you about this thing 10,000 ago because it's um it's yeah that was a massive loss for the Imperium to lose that device I think I think the lion is still fundamentally the line at the end of the day uh and while I think he'll come a long way I don't think he's going to be like yeah here's all my secrets and [ __ ] I think he's uh he's he's always going to be a little secretive he's going to keep his cards close to his chest um but I think he has learned his lesson I don't think he's going to shove Conrad K in his you know any ship and not tell anyone about it again fair enough um yeah I I will say actually on that like a really like kind of fun tidbit of law that I really I'm kind of curious to see if they address this um the the the tulture engine play C of robber us also come up in a book called Unforgiven which is a novel that is centered around uh T the typhus wants to combine his part of the death guard with the fallen angels and create the death Angels it's like a new faction and the dark angel try to prevent this and one of the things that they try to do is get their hands in all of these devices so that they can go back in time and like get all of the fallen and throughout the events of the book it is actually implied that the reason the Fallen were scattered throughout time and face time and face time and space is because as Israel the chapter Master of the Dark Angels like uh yeah he could have stopped this and he didn't his actions potentially scattered the fallen and so I wonder and he knows this and so I wonder whether he's going to say to his father that you know I might have had a hand in this and that also suggests that maybe azreel had a hand in the destruction of calaban because the one of the things lion notes in his novel is that the the bombardment of the Dark Angels was nowhere near powerful enough to destroy the planet so like there's so like there's so many like awkward conversations they could they could go through which I'd love yeah no I be kid that's what I mean as I've said a few times I'd be very very keen for them just to I'd read a whole book where all the Dark Angels in the line just sit in a circle and just talk about stuff and nothing happens except they just admit all the [ __ ] they've done and they just explain everything I'd be like [ __ ] yes thank God yeah no true yeah that would be very interesting and it's quite funny you say that because the lion is I think he's being slow on reforming his his sons because he probably knows it's going to be a bit of a ly process because they're very set in their ways but like he so he hasn't like officially called off the hunt for the foolen for example is what I was referring to earlier so the the interrogator chapters are still getting them bring them into the dungeons giving them a little bit of a torture and then think yeah I don't then at some point he'll free them if he sees it necessary but um yeah that's that's that mindset is you know there there's so much in that like even like little lines I think in arcs of omen there's a part where when when azreel sees one of the Risen he's like hang on and you're like that moment there there's so much to that because of course but all his life he's hunted these guys and now he's like they're working with the lion it's just such a head [ __ ] with that um kind of fascinating yeah doesn't one of the reason Like Pat him on the back or something and as like get the [ __ ] off me he might do I can't remember but he might do yeah I remember they I remember he shares a look and I was like oh that's uh awkward um moving on to the Space Wolves again something that I actually I want as much dark angel store as possible but I kind of hope they bring the space wars into the lion Gillman reunion storyline because again to mirror what happens in 30k and the space and the Dark Angels of course are they're probably the most famous rivalry in 40K in terms of loyalists because it is 10,000 years old predates the heresy and the line story line is just kind of fascinating um take the main book is lean russes Primark Nel and it's yeah it's a really good story really well written I love Chris R and the their that relationship is quite interesting in that it actually ends quite well so one of the things that happens at the end of the novel is the Leman Russ ends feeling very sad and mournful because the lion has just disappeared at this point and he's like I don't understand how something could have killed the lion so I'm confident that he's still alive somehow and he hopes to see him again but since that point the Rivalry flares up over and over again and even Logan grimnar and azreel you know they they it said when they fight together when the Dark Angels and space WS fight together they are the greatest force in the Galaxy but they very rarely do because they just don't get along so I think they fight together during the 13th Black Crusade again and then they they fall out favor and then there's you know the um uh Siege of fenis and you know the Dark Angels kind of start off believing that the space was are Heretics and then they work with the space RS and then they fall out at the end again again so it's it's all over the place but I would love to see what what happened with the space walls in the line because yeah how I mean how do you think that'll go down yeah I think it'll be like a like a Easter egg subplot thing I don't think it's going to be like a huge part of it but I think yeah the games has an opportunity to kind of really kind of tickle a lot of people's I don't know like tickle a lot of people's chins in a way like make people go kind of get a lot of satisfaction get a lot of um you know kind of payoff yeah so I think there'll definitely be a a scene I think we talked previously about how bejor might be be there and be the one that kind of goes all right like [ __ ] it let's throw down and you know tries to punch the lion or something as part of their ancient reunion maybe it also kind of signals the end of the the uh the tradition the lion finally put putting a stop to it or after he's punches on with beon or whatever I think it'll be I think it would be a massive waste for them not to do something with it um but I'm also not really expecting it to be like this big kind of plot Point yeah that's fair I mean I think that yeah I I get what you're saying so like with bjor the thing that I think about is his reunion with um Gillman in the book wolf time where he is you know normally the voice of reason in the emperor's gift it's bjor that you know talks the space WS out of um uh kind of yeah stop stops them fighting against the grey Knights for example but then by the time we get to Wolf time even bjor is massively annoyed you know very angry at Gillman and he doesn't kind of quieten the assertions of Logan grim who who's you disgusted that this you know primark's coming here and telling him what to do even though he's not telling him what to do he's actually to give him more soldiers but still hate him hate that guy split up the legions and it just made me think that if bjor is that annoyed and Logan grimnar is that annoyed at Gilman how are they going to be when they see the lion all the space RS will have been told the story over and over again where the lion is put in this terrible light and the last time bjor saw the lion the lion would have stamped Leeman Russ through the chest as Leeman Russ you know wasn't engaged in combat at all a complete fit of rage and you know G bement from The Lion but still you know unforgivable to stab your brother and so I just can't help but wonder what is beon g to do when he sees the lion and I would love it as you say it's to go into like some sort of Honor jeel because it would just be great um I think it would just just a lion fighting against uh they need a new bujor model at some point anyway and it would just be a great honor Jo just to have a lion fighting against dreadn he's so cool um I'd love that yeah I I think we're in GRE here and it definitely wouldn't be the first Primark beon would have thrown hands with either yeah yeah yeah that would be pretty cool um yeah he could be like yeah if he said to the lion that Magnus punch is harder than him I think that would really actually get into the lion skin yeah [ __ ] flip it on him um cool all right let me before we talk about the emperor I'm just going to jump in chat for a bit sorry I appreciate I haven't gone into too much um uh he said it cleared the Bad Blood between them and they reconciled after yeah very true and and yeah to be fair Bon might have seen that but I don't think that I don't think he he will be like ah okay they're good now I still think he'll be very incredibly angry um AEL question are you a cat person or a dog person see I am a dog person but I have a cat but that's CU my girlfriend got cat what be your Maj you cat person or dog person uh I do like my cats but I'm very much a dog person I've got two boys at the moment living with me nice um I have a theory that Cipher seeks a meeting with the emperor because he knows he needs the emperor's Authority EMP power to be cleansed he is the only one who can cause the lion to forgive him true I mean that would that was always like a strong suggestion in the law that the cipher wanted the emperor to forgive himself or forgive the Dark Angels and the foolen and that was one of the things about Cipher's character that's quite interesting is how like weirdly loyal he is to the foolen and how he he's very sad to see them die he keeps them with him for like a long time but he also kind of uses them for his own ends and so his exact his exact inner thoughts on the Fallen I'm I'm interested to see what they are someday because you know potentially you know it again it would kind of make sense to have it be like noble course way because then all of a sudden it's like oh maybe Co Wayne found out that many of these Fallen never actually turned on the emperor so he's just kind of loyal to his brothers um which should be quite interesting um probably noted major you're very kind to do this because appreciate time time differences quite a lot between the UK and Australia so thank you very very much um no stress always take up a chance to talk about the Dark Angels yeah uh will they meet in the Dawn of Fire series well um I I don't think so so we' got two books left for the Dawn of Fire series and one of them is Hand of abdon and the final one will probably be this I'm guessing it would just be ultramarines versus word bearers it's a classic Showdown the word bearers are working out to something pretty big and I'm guessing that's how it that's how the series ends um yes sorry M was webcam is off you will have noticed I don't think GW will ever touch the second and the 11th so that you guys can always imagine your own Legion and make your own Primark see I actually heard or someone when I did the when I did a video on them people said that actually that wasn't why they were created they were purely created for the mystery but I thought exactly the same as you I thought that was why they were created to allow people to make their own chapters and Legions but but yeah apparently it's just part of the mystery I I still think it's probably you know we haven't even got all the prime all the regular Prim marks back yet so I think we're probably quite a bit off that but one day one day I'm sure you know they intend to they intend to have this go on for a very very long time and eventually they'll run out of story they'll throw out a secret secret Brar um but yeah it's objective one of the most intriguing parts of the setting um okay cool let let's talk about the emperor then I've actually put this in the thumbnail as the old King because when in the Lion's primarch no keep say prim novel not Prim novel in the Lion's novel son of the forest he finds an Old King who is clearly some sort of warp manifestation of the emperor that is in his um his realm his Mira calaban realm he traverses through and this this part of the emperor can't speak looks to be in immense pain matches the emperor zmo but it also has three item he also has three items in front of him he has a spear or a lance covered in blood he has a chalice and he has a candelabra what your thoughts made you kill on these three items and what the emperor is kind of what he wants from The Lion oh man you ging me give me the hard question I mean of time it's it's clear that the the forest that he walks through is kind of kind of like a manifestation of the warp that's made much more palatable for the lion that's why the chaos gods were kind of able to manifest there and that's why the emperor can kind of manifest there and it's why it's kind of you know he can teleport around uh the warp is all full of metaphors and [ __ ] I don't really know what the spear chalice and other thingo represents um per se I think you might have probably thought about it a l more than I have kind of even actually remember that part of the book but the emperor it's very clear that the emperor is aware of the Lion's return and he is helping him a lot he gave him his shield uh it's kind of insinuated that he gave him his sword as well maybe you've got more thoughts on that um but I think he's helping him like he can I mean after all the I think in one scene the chaos Gods actually tried to attack the lion in The Forest realm and crack the shits and banish them um so no I I did find that part really really cool yeah no I yeah again yeah I also I thought it was very interesting yeah I mean on the sord it yeah it was very surprising when the lion model was announced because we had the model before the book and when he didn't have the lion sword it was pretty crazy because of course the you know whilst the lion is very much documented as using multiple weapons he uses a uh a massive chainsaw after Gillman breaks the lion sword in the heresy uh the lion sword is such a you know weapon of his office and I really thought he'd have it and so I was very surprised but yeah f is kind of a cool blad and it yeah it's one of the parts of the book that I don't fult Mike Brook for Mike Brooks for because I thought he crushed that number thought he did a really good job but like it was I think there's no way around it he had to fit in so much into the novel and so how the lion finds the weapons is outside of The Shield is a little bit funny he just kind of stumbles on the sword yeah and then like the gun is just like on a planet and it's like oh the emperor left this massive gun here 10,000 years ago do you want it and it's like uh sure and it's like okay you know but it's again it's purely because you have to cover so much within one novel um but yeah the three items so my thoughts are the spear is Russ because Leman Russ is big part of his storyline in the heresy is around the Spear of Russ um the dionan spear I'm going to say all the appolloni spear I always get them mixed up I want to say Dian Spear and that's a very important plot device for lean R Us so I shoot I'm going to guess that represents him the fact that it's covered in blood I think probably goes back to the idea I think of all of the loyalist primarch I think leean Ras is the only one to have been like captured or imprisoned somewhere or or tricked in some capacity because the space RS imply during the battle of the Fang that there is they very confident haaha in the fact that Leman Russ is going to be unable to Aid his sons against Magnus the red so I think that I think that at some point the lon is going to say Lan R Us with the Space Wolves and I think that the Candelabra is most likely the astronomican it it's because again I'm going to try and not bring everything back to the uh King and yellow storyline but um yeah oh sorry actually know technically Vols Terror series really where like I can't see how the line would come into that story line but there is problems with the astronomic it's connected to the Golden Throne and so yeah potentially he's going to come in into that story line but I don't I I can't think how the line will be connected to it but at some point potentially it means like you know be the lights within Imperium nilas or something like that maybe it's a bit it's a bit more meaningful like that or maybe he's going to talk about that you know one of bisar schs well bis's greatest task is to you know remove the Great Rift from the Galaxy and allow the light of the emperor to shine through into Imperium nilus maybe the Lions will come into that storyline at some point and then the Chalice I think is kind of just of more of uh protect the blood angels um task from the lion from the emperor to the lion because the lion loves sons of sanguin he is very dearly and Dante is Everyone likes Dante so it's uh I think he's perfectly happy to work with the blood angels and I think yeah I think that that's probably what that's that's going to happen um yeah any thoughts sorry it's was quite a big ramble yeah no no I think I think you that's Pro as good as guess as you can basically get yeah chalice makes sense be makes sense candle makes sense uh the lion I think we're going to get a lot of lion law um and they're going to get a lot of him popping up in different places and clapping some cheeks so yeah I can imagine he would have a hand in Saving the Wolves saving the blood angels and even saving the emperor at some point uh like I feel like the return of the line's probably been the biggest narrative point and potentially money bag for games workship for a while so I re they're going to they're going to milk that cow dry yeah no for sure and I think one of the things that it's so interesting I remember you brought this up on the last live stream is to think more about kind of time scales and I I think that it's quite interesting that that like you know we have things like the Eisen hor story line that takes place like I think you know 500 so years before I think you were saying before the current story line I think it's probably about right I I think with these kind of missions we could be looking at very long time scales so I actually I have a personal theory that I think Leeman Russ will be the last Primark to return I still think the LI will go on a quest to find him but I don't think it'll be completed for a long while and yeah I don't think these are to be done in the near future I think think games work games wor by setting these up um one of the sorry oh sorry about say something sorry my bad uh one of the things that I I thought about um the lion storyline that was so interesting is that he he never had like a writer during the heresy he never had someone that really took him on all of the Lion's books have like different authors and even the Lion's return You Know M like I say Mike Brooks I thought crushed it but in a way I was quite surprised it was Mike Brooks because he he hasn't written the Dark Angels novels and he's one of these primarchs that doesn't really have like a like a main writer um the Dark Angels of course all have kind loads of gav Thor Nobles but yeah I was a bit surprised that no one really has claimed him as a character because he is a fan favorite for sure yeah maybe they just no no single mortal man could handle the line I have to just kind of P it around a bit but I agree the every every bit of line literature that I've written and I've just thoroughly enjoyed I think they always kind of represent him well and he's always just very very exciting to read about every time he's on page you're like holy [ __ ] I just want to do also a shout out if you guys have done the audio book to the new Lion Son Of The Forest book the audio book narrator absolutely crushed it um I think it was a new guy they brought on and because I'd never heard him in any of the other books and yeah it was amazing so I'd highly recommend the Lion Son of the forest audio book if that's your guys' style you know what it's one of those things where when I I read the novel sometimes I if I get to a scene where I'm like this is going to be a real challenge for the reader because there's this scene towards the end of the book which I've actually a video on or a live stream on where the lion fights against this um demon who takes on the form of like every primarch and the lion fights against all of these versions of his brothers and I couldn't help but think I was like this is going to be this going to be so hard for the uh audio book reader because they got to do a voice for every Primark and a lot a lot of the promarks are just strong Gruff gues so like to do to do like 10 different versions of that is going to be a challenge um so I'm tempted to buy it just for that seat yeah damn I I can't I wish I could remember that more clearly I don't remember it sticking out as been bad so hopefully it's good I mean he was very good like his lion voice was very distinct his zabel voice was very distinct even his um bayor and sarax voices were also super distinct so no I was very very impressed with him cuz you know like having a [ __ ] narrator can really just ruin a whole book yeah yeah fair I mean no totally and uh yeah I was I was so nervous about that book you know and I was so I actually sent Mike Brooks a message on that Twitter or something because I was like thanks for crushing this man because I was so worried like it was you know you're never going to get another book that covers the return of your Primark and I thought that you know I was so worried that like um they didn't see the lion how I saw him like that was quite a big thing for me you know like i' I've said a lot of I've seen a lot of people be like I love the lion now but I hate him in 30k but the thing is the Dark Angels are a character Arc you know they have a huge character AR can if you just look at the Dark Angels and 30 Gates I get why you wouldn't like them because you'll be like oh they're just the best at everything that's kind of boring and I'm like yeah but the point of that is that that they are no longer that they are a shadow of their former selves but within them they have this tremendous capacity to be you know potentially the greatest Legion that's one of the reasons I love the dark anel so much and lion very similar like he he is this incredible General and like you know the thing about the lion that's so amazing is whilst he's there's an argument to say he's maybe the best in a couple of things generally he is considered to be one of the best in a series of things which make him just a ridiculous combatant in in any field of battle um which is yeah why I love him so much um so I would just say dantey thank you so much Super Chat mate you absolute Legend I won't read out the first part in case YouTube gets annoyed at me but uh yeah I appreciate your support man you appreciate it um I can read it out if you want uh yeah okay so um no way the space Vikings are the last two popular I mean that's that's fair I I totally get that and practically it makes sense to bring lean R Us back next I don't I don't dispute this they have to do the space WS range at some point bringing the the L the Russ out with them would make a lot of sense I actually go through this in my Jagger taan video have a very long and uh crazy series of thoughts as to why I think it will be Jagger taan next but I think it's entertaining um H and Russ drinks the most and sleeps through the entire story line Le Leman Russ's story line is a bit this is the difference between the lion and Leeman Russ for me major kill is that the lion is quite poorly written a lot of the time but he has like the most interesting storyline and he is incredibly impressive and so he he's like quite poorly written what he does Mak sense so for example in Leman Russ's Primark novel it's written from Lan Russ's point of view so obviously tries to make Leman Russ look better but even then the actions of the lion are incredibly redeeming you know he does kill the um the Tyrant but like realistically that is nothing like lemman Russ was acting like a baby that book starts off with lemman Russ like killing accidentally a whole chunk of Dark Angels and the lion basically lets it Go and Leeman Russ threatens the lion so everything the lion does I'm I get behind when Leman when the lion bombs mcra I'm like that is awful that's terrible it's also unbelievably the correct decision like obviously you would bomb mcra there's there's no other way to capture to capture Conrad G like the Lion's actions here save the heresy they get sanguinius to Terror sorry you can tell I'm a big L fan but um lean Russ lean Russ on the other hand is incredibly well written like you read like wolf um wol wolf ban wolf Spain yes like that book is amazing amazingly enjoyable novel but like his actions make no sense they make no sense whatsoever um yeah yeah that's kind of what stopped me really kind of getting into the spals than Leman was just yeah I agree even if it was super well written like most of the [ __ ] Leman does you just kind of end up being a bit like dude like the whole fall of Prospero was just you know it was obviously interesting to read about but it was very like o and then like just so many other things yeah wolf ban yeah like kind of almost suicides his Legion to try and kill Horus and some weird vain glorious suicide attack like yeah you kind of just go dude like if you just stay on terror like sanguinus probably wouldn't have died you know things probably would have been a lot better um so I agree I just you just kind of roll your eyes a bit my favorite thing about that and I'm sorry space fans my favorite thing about the W Spain storyline is that Leeman Russ exactly you say like wastes almost his entire Legion at least takes out the heresy ends up reuniting with the lion he basically wastes his Legion so that he can give Horus like a very short therapy session and like it lasts for a few seconds and then all of a sudden Lon Russ is fine again and in the it's like in slaves it's like in um Titan death or yeah I think it's Titan death they went oh my God we've messed that up like we've just wasted Lan Russ Legion for no purpose so they have a ramification which is that Horus collapses and they're like ah few okay so Horus is weakened by Lan Russ's actions at least that gives Leman Russ's actions some purpose then they got to slaves to Darkness and it's like they went oh crap that doesn't work because we need Horus at full power when he fights the emperor and they G um Galactic battle you CL climactic battle however at that point lemon Russ's storyline is again completely wasted because even if you going be like oh what did Leeman Russ like delay the traitors the answer is no because the plot line of slaves to Darkness is going to get angron and fulgrim because of course they're off doing whatever it is that they do and so Leman Russ has basically zero impact on the story and like you say he takes his entire Legion out of the siege of teror is just yeah the entire the entire story L is niut I really thought they might bring up like the bite of the wolf in the final end of the Death volume three to give lean Ras some relevance on the story but he yeah it just like he basically Wast his Legion because of the spear looks at him funny that sounds like an exaggeration it's not um Mr Mor thank you so much for joining the channel you're absolute Legend um do feel free to join the Discord and I do do member streams on Sunday you can see extra content on the channel Channel um yeah thank you so much uh nice comments thank you so much everybody all the symbols seem to be related to what's in the city of dust could it mean that uh the collected blood of the sons of sanguinius are acting as a beacon beacon for some fragment of his soul oh I mean that's one of those questions that I get I don't know how you feel about this question mag like I love them but like they're kind of into Uncharted Territory so I can only speculate uh on this uh that sounds like a great storyline but I I have no idea yeah yeah same V it's just a lot of I don't know it's hard to say it's that people be like what would happen if uh like I think clone fgr or something like that like the very popular story lines so what would happen if he returned I'm like I honestly have no idea I uh I yeah I don't see that going well for him but uh it would be cool why is nobody talking about squats really being the last of the men of stone yeah I think yeah you I think you have covered the men of stone before I think I've seen on your channel I think I did a video on the men of stone and the men of gold yeah the men of gold the men of gold are the part problem for that story line because nothing really matches there I don't know how you feel about it but like you could maybe make a case for the old ones for example but then try I can't try to remember the story exactly it's very old 40K law this sorry so people aren't familiar this this very old text that describes the men of gold who are like this Divine incredible race creating the men of stone who made the men of iron who then rebelled um and that was the cybernetic revolt and yeah the men of gold are the interesting part of that because it can't just be like psychers because psychers didn't create Humanity now the old ones might have made Humanity but like yeah I don't know any I I don't know what your conclusion I can't remember any idea what you think the men of gold were or the men of stone uh I think I was theorizing that the men of gold might have been like the perpetuals or something you know I think it's I think it was kind of uh yeah it was difficult I didn't really know um but yeah I don't know I was just trying to because there's just such a little lore about it yeah yeah I think it is just like couple paragraphs but I I think your suggestion there Daniel about it like the squats being the men of stone that works for me because like if the squats made the men of iron and that could be a really interesting clock development that it wasn't the rest of humanity that made the men of iron it was specifically like the leagues of votan or the squats that could be quite an interesting way to bring that back in and the 40K writers do love to bring back in Old 40K law like I could see them doing something right there uh do you think full groom's return should set a narrative with the Elder as well and the Crone sword as the Elder could do with a range refresh with the rest of the aspect Warriors and Phoenix Lords yes um I do think we we'll get something around that because like yeah I think Games Workshop try to figure out what they want to do with the Eldar because their um Inari series you did a video on how to fix the Inari series I remember but like uh the inar just didn't sell so well so they not sure what to do I think with them um I think they thought the Inari probably be more popular than they are it's quite tough I think a lot of eldo players just have their armies already so they they just don't sell particularly well because they don't get new new stuff they just get like you know plastic versions of old kits or a lot of it has been that um I mean to be fair like the recent ELO releases have been pretty amazing like they've redone The Shining Spears the Striking scorpions uh banshees like they've I know a lot of it is yeah you're right just bringing on plastic but they always kind of tweak it like they make the proportions better and they kind of make the detail better and whatnot um new Avatar of Kan like so Elder players have eaten Prett like new Marg and ra like like we've eaten pretty well recently um I think they're just going with the tactic of being like [ __ ] let's just not make Eldar law let's just like release models cuz yeah I haven't heard of Peep of Eldar law like not even you know barely anything since the enari storyline yet the models that have come out since then have actually been pretty fantastic like I think I bought most of them yeah I think we might weirdly get like some an nari development in the next araman book that if I was to guess because I think araman will hunt rain or something like that um yeah I don't know maybe or maybe like ephel Stern an eal Stern novel I don't know yeah there there's a lot of there there's options um I can see Lev the Leviathan bringing necr and eldari more lore as well which will lead into FM coming back very true yeah that that would be quite cool I mean seeing more Eldar nekron conflict is quite interesting last time you talked about the Khan and on your own video what would you like for Jag's character Arc to be if when he returns he can't just shoot off to space and Hunt yeah it's a good question so there's like a fear within the white scars nowadays and this is like a secret like fear that the white have and it's the fear is that jager taan willingly left his sons because he wanted to hunt throughout the webway I do quite like the idea because bearing in mind we've got you know seven primar to do I like the idea that one of the primarch actually like kind of abandoned the Imperium and kind of grew sick of it you know he came back he saved his system and then he you know he left the Imperium and I think potentially working with the Harley quins um um something like that I think would probably make sense to me any ideas magu what would you do for jagai um I I was kind of theorizing that he's been kidnapped by is it KO gorach or sh gorach or however the hell you say it but yeah I think and I think that ties back into the fact that what what's is it confirmed or just heavily implied that fullrim and jaggedy was planets were swapped um the ones that were suppos to says that to jagg ey yeah yes he kind of tells them that their planets were swapped um which is like okay well who swapped it not the chaos Gods Not the emperor probably the Laughing God did it um why did he do it okay maybe he did it because jaedi being loyal and fulam being traitor would actually end up being like altering the heresy in their favor cuz fulam wasn't exactly I mean obviously he killed Ferris he was pretty deadly but he hasn't exactly been the most deadly Trader Primark he's basically just been jerking off on his pleasure planet for 10,000 years um so whereas jaggedy then entered the webway and maybe into the clutches of the Laughing God who is now using him so yeah I think there's actually a quite a strong Theory um kind of all centered around it which involves jaggedy probably being imprisoned and used for something interesting yeah no yeah that could be cool think that um moreon karak just would be interesting as as a as a influence in 40K because he yeah I think there's there's actually I saw a Reddit post once that really made me laugh and it was very very well thought out and it had all of these ways in which karak has potentially kind of caused the return of rabut Gilman and I was like you know maybe he maybe he's like the elder god that recognizes how important humanity is so him working or someone like jagai would make sense in that capacity he's always been the smartest by far cuz he's the only one that didn't [ __ ] die yeah get kidnapped prediction uh if you'll let me the King in Yellow is not Valor but rogor with valdor as the face of it vasor is working with perter rabo pery swatz Gillman and lion but then Dawn pops up that I mean that would be that would be a lot uh cool I'd be I'd be there for the ride uh Mr Mor but uh I yeah yeah that would be quite a lot I definitely think it is Constantine Valor mainly because it is V like you have to remember this is if you include magos that is book nine of a 10 book series The the last page the last words of the book are the revealing that Rogue woodor is Constantine Valor in the penultimate novel so like I definitely think it's got to be him um and I think that I don't think that happened that we're just going to pull that war out back um Vash working with Perabo yeah that makes sense to me I about you major K yeah the VOR and Pabu one makes total sense the whole rug pool and then turns out it's Ral Dawn not so much um but yeah I mean who knows if it did happen I would probably wouldn't even be mad I'd just be like wellow that's kind of that's kind of whack bit you know all right let's go for it but I'd be very surprised I think I'd make a lot more whack predictions before I'd make that prediction yeah yeah but it would be interesting to see where Vasa properly lands because I don't you know such an obvious thing is like shouldn't the iron Warriors kind of love Perabo it's like probably yeah but then we know so little about the dark mechanicum generally and yeah it's kind of it's interesting um danty thank you again for another Super Chat you absolute Legend what if the lion was at the siege of er um I'll try not to respond honestly and just say it would have been one book and then been over very quickly no I'm joking um I think that so one of the things that I will say sorry to go off but like I do think it's really interesting that the lion actually did have a really big impact dur on the siege of Terror we see this Through The Eyes of sanguinius where as the lion destroys traitor home worlds it weakens the traitor Legions or at least the parts of them that are dependent on the war and especially the demon Primark so like angron is weakened during the siege of Terror up until the word bearers claim a new world within the eye of Terror and so the lion did have a massive impact there potentially you know saved sanguinius' life in that battle because angron is strong enough that he does wound sanguinus with the Black Blade and so you know potentially the lion did save his brother's life there although he he'll never know it and but yeah at The Siege himself um what do you think Ma how do you think that would go um I mean yeah there part of me that just wants to say it just be a cwk but I know it's probably not true I actually would be concerned that the lion would die uh I think he's like he would probably try he would probably it would be an epic death but I think he would probably try and make amends for his mistakes um and he would see an opening to deal a devastating blow against the traitors he probably take out a Trader Primark or two um and he would probably end up saving the life of sanus and maybe the emperor but it wouldn't be a it wouldn't be just a free swap it would it would have to cost him his life yeah I imagine that's probably how they'd end up writing it but yeah he would have been a hell of a a hell of an asset we can I think everyone can agree with that um but yeah I think we'll call the stream there I'm very conscious of the fact I've kept major clup for a very long time thank you once again for joining me on stream mate um I do really appreciate it we also did a stream on major kills Channel where we talk about one of the major plot points in 40K right now so yeah go check that out um I think I have another video on the lion sorry actually out today but it's actually on his relationship with the tyranids which I find quite a cool little plot device so I um yeah so stay tuned for that thank you so much for watching this um any final words major k no not at all yeah I think we now it thank you guys for watching thanks for having me Sam man absolute pleasure talk about the Dark Angels talking about the line as I've said they are my Army of Cho My Space Marine Army of choice alongside the correct Elder the correct Choice uh that take ages to [ __ ] paint but no I've been loving it no thanks for having me um K to do this again sometime awesome awesome well

Channel: Sandman of Terra

Views: 43,062

Keywords: space marines, space marine, warhammer 40k, warhammer 40k lore, warhammer 40k dark angels, warhammer 40k dark angels lore, warhammer, 40k lore, dark angels, dark angels 40k, dark angels chapter, chaos space marines, horus heresy, dark angels horus heresy, cypher 40k lore, cypher 40k 9th edition, cypher 40k, warhammer cypher, warhammer 40k fallen, lionel johnson, lionel johnson lore, warhammer shorts, Ultramarines, roboute guilliman, warhammer 40k rumours, return of lion

Id: KplvZA5dWMo

Length: 84min 50sec (5090 seconds)

Published: Mon Feb 19 2024