Dorn On The Vengeful Spirit and The Iron Cage Disaster | Warhammer 40K Investigations

like so many of his brother primar rogul dawn had seized A Warrior's Destiny long before his reunification with the emperor adopted into the ruling families of the inwit system his talent for discipline and Order had expanded that star lung Dominion's boundaries further than anyone had before him he had a mind appreciative not just of metal and Machinery but also the flesh and blood that must wield such Tools in matters of War furthermore dor was possessed of a stwart idealism that melded perfectly with the emperor's great Crusade and equipped him well for leadership of the fledgling seventh Legion the Imperial fists soon became the emperor's pretorians a duty they discharged With Honor on worlds Beyond count as the great Crusade wore on from the first they proved proved masters of the bloody work of Siege craft under their primar guidance they raised and broke fortifications like no other Force safeguarding the nent Imperium with an ever expanding curtain wall of Fortress worlds and deep space Bastion to Dawn's calculating eye the Imperium was a fortress and Terror its Central Citadel Mankind's far-flung worlds were more than dominions to be reclaimed they were vital rampants in a growing hole that Dawn envisioned as the Bastian imperialis and owed service as readily as they were owed protection in return as a result few felt the Betrayal of the Horus heresy more deeply than the brooding rogal Dawn each world that plunged into Rebellion cracked the foundation of the immortal Fortress he had labored to build even before the outbreak of the Horus heresy d had been recalled by the emperor to fortify the birth world of humanity the petoran of Terror was one of the emperor's greatest assets during the age of darkness and especially during the siege of Terror for his incredible mind along with the defenses instored by the seventh Legion delayed the traitor forces long enough for reinforcements to arrive the time for speeches is done the first great test is here my order to you all is simple yet heated well and exert yourselves to see it done they are coming kill them all however during the latter stages of the Horus heresy and in the scouring afterwards terrible evils would befall the seventh Legion and their primarch for in the Grim darkness of the far future there is only War I love rogor you love rogor probably he's a pretty hard character not to enjoy and I think the reason for that is because he is probably the most consistently well-written Primark that we get in the heresy if you look at his journey compared to someone like the lion then someone like Leman Russ he's so consistent in how he approaches his problems he's an understandable character he's very human at times he needs to take breaks during the siege of Terror there are these scenes where he kind of goes to this garden and will dwell on things and when he does defeat his foes he does it in a really interesting way one of the things that makes daor so interesting is the fact that he actually basically takes out two traitor primar during the lorus heresy and Siege of Terror they are alarus and fullrim the reason that's so interesting is because you wouldn't typically put rogal dor as one of the the best primarch in terms of fighting however when he beats them again it's just kind of through great writing he beats him through his tactical Acumen he beats them through exploiting their weaknesses so when he fights against alarus we see that he actually understands his brothers probably more than any other Primark and he understands why he is the petorian and what it is to have that role and so he can instantly kind of pick alarus out amongst his leg which of course most of the primar typically can do when he fights against fullrim he exploits F Grim's arrogance and fullrim actually attacks the Imperial Palace with the Emperor's Children kind of all at once and rogon says to sanguinius later you know I probably can't beat forgrim in a straight fight but I know that I can fight him to a degree that he will then turn and run so rogul dor is a really great character to follow and I'm pretty sure he's one of the favorite CRI marks when it comes to Black Library authors and it's also worth noting that everybody on the loyalist side and the traitor side during the siege of Terror is kind of full of nothing but compliments for Dawn it's regularly said that if he was on the traitor side the traitors probably would have won sanguinius Vulcan jagai they all note multiple times that realistically he probably had the greatest impact out of any primarch and the emperor certainly seems to have a huge amount of trust in dor that he doesn't really seem to have for any of the other Prim marks however if you were thinking this is just going to be a a session where I gush about how amazing rogal dor is unfortunately that's not going to be all this stream is so we are going to go on today and have a look at the end of rogor Thorn's storyline from what we know and how it is completely different to this incredible stalwart and Legend AR character that seems to make no mistakes throughout the heresy and now interestingly in the end of the Death volume to it appears that we have a good explanation of why Dawn seems to make catastrophic errors in the scouring given that during the Horus heresy is just nothing but net from the big guy so we're going to take a strong look at what happens to daor when he teleports onto the vengeful spirit along with the emperor and sanguinius this is known as the anabasis assault and when they teleport on they are immediately split up this was always kind of the Old Law that they didn't all approach the throne room together however now we have a lot of detail on what happen to rogo dor so one really interesting thing to note is that Horus lupaca actually had a plan for Dawn in his new Imperium he also had plans for sanguinius the emperor and Constantin Valor he actually wanted to make a new maval the maval were the senior members of the sons of Horus or lunar wolves who advised Horus during the Great Crusade and Horus heresy we explore this topic to a great degree in Horus rising and the early Horus heresy books and throughout the Horus heresy various members leave the sons of Horus or they are killed and so Horus decides he's going to make a new moural and now he's going to have it that each member of the moural will represent one of the four chaos Gods so he has a plan where the emperor will represent slesh he will be like an avatar of slesh within the moural which is sounds crazy but the logic given is that the emperor has been you know planning things for tens of thousands of years and so realistically he's probably going to want to take a step back and chill out for a little bit so he's goingon to be the avatar for Lanes Valor is a person who's been kind of you know custodians are kind of uh uh they have very little Free Will realistically and so valdor would be a representative of Z on the mour ofal sanguinius would be a representative of nurgle because of course he's foreseen his death so that eternal life aspect would be really appealing to him however most people thought sanguinius would surely be an avatar of corn because the blood angels are all about ripping and tearing let's be real however actually the avatar for corn in is's plan was going to be rogal Dawn and it's really hard not to notice how those two things rhyme so rogul K is absolutely a plan of the chaos Gods so after rogul Dawn teleports onto the vengeful Spirit or what he thinks is the vengeful Spirit he actually ends up in a desert there is rusting Brown everywhere it's described as it's described like a red desert and he is taunted by a being who is referred to as the red or he refers to as the red and we probably think this is going to be corn or at least some sort of Representative of corn and as rodor walks throughout this desert he is constantly told to say blood for the blood God essentially as rodor crosses the desert the red constantly asks like blood for the who who is the blood for and the idea is that if rogor will finally say blood for the blood God he will give in but every time he gets close his sanity reasserts himself and he keeps repeating the same line you know I am rogal Dawn and you know has to keep reminding himself of who he is and it's said that this scene actually goes on for centuries from Rog Dawn's point of view now admittedly this is when time has absolutely gone to hell but certainly it's a ridiculous time frame to be trapped in a desert and as rodor kind of goes through the desert he finds this huge uge wool that he can't get through and obviously there's a lot of symbolism here because rogor is very famous for being a Primark who's exceptional siegecraft and Siege Warfare however he can't get over this wall and he keeps coming up with plans for how to get over the wall battle plans etc etc he Scrolls them onto the wall you can actually see on the wall there that as he's coming up with these plans he is writing them down and the red keeps getting really annoyed by this there's this really funny scene where as K is trying to taunt the primarch of the Imperial fists he says to Dawn he's like who's the blood for who's the blood for and then rogul dwn remembers this like lesson he'd had from the emperor long ago where the emperor had told him about an ancient battle and there was ethics to Warfare introduced and rogor gives like a lecture to K despite the fact he knows Korn won't listen about the ethics that should exist within Warfare fair and it said that the red is getting increasingly annoyed by this because rogal Dawn just will not relent the Primark of the Imperial fists does not give in and he does it again he keeps giving these lectures to the blood God and explaining like you know the the tactics of Siege Warfare Etc but rodon can't technically actually win he has no way of getting out of this Fortress as Dawn continues walking through the desert he does not that there's not much left of his blade and everything is started to rust even his incredible armor has started to rust he does discover armor of the seventh Legion he's starting to forget even what the seventh Legion was he can't even remember what he's doing here he doesn't really remember the Horus heresy he remembers like that there was some sort of big battle but it's just been such a long time even a Primark is starting to lose his faculties and all along periodically corn just kind of jump out and from from various distances whisper and say give in give up let go just say it say blood for the blood God but rogul dwn believes in the Imperial truth and he says there are no Gods not even you he says that to K not to his face but as close as you can get to K and say it so you may be wondering how does rodor ever get out of the desert and he gets out of the desert largely as a consequence of the emperor so we've talked about in previous streams quite a few times now throughout the end in the death whilst this is going on the emperor is ascending to godhood he's becoming the dark King and when the emperor is convinced to relinquish this godhood and he lets go of it there's a huge psychic shock wave that is sent out and it affects people all across Terror all across the vengeful Spirit everyone can feel it chaos demon starts celebrating when they hear it because they suddenly come to the conclusion as as the chaos Gods planned that this is the Emperor relinquishing the only Power he could possibly have that could be the warm however the other effect of this shock wave is to weaken the grasp that Korn has over this realm and so the wool starts to weaken and rogal Dawn starts just punching the wool he punches his hands completely bloody but eventually he does get through the wall and into the inevitable City and if you think it's uh going to be a lovely reunion with the Imperial fist who joined him when teleporting onto the vengeful Spirit quickly he actually discovers that every single member of his Legion who teleported onto the vengeful spirit with him is now dead they all died fighting against traitors he actually kind of follows the battle and he understands like who was the last to die and he actually picks up one of their great swords the Great Sword of his husar who you know died fighting as the the last Imperial fist on the vengeful spirit and daor actually you know picks up this weapon and it's going to use it now to fight back against the traitors and rogal dor actually decides to reenter the fight as it were and so we don't actually know what he's going to do going into the final book because rogal dor has essentially spent centuries being tortured his actual primarch weapon is broken he's now got this great sword but also narratively I'm really interested to see what they do with daor in this final book because the emperor loen and kaalus and L they're fighting against Horus valdor is about to take on abdon so who is left for rogal dor my brain immediately jumps to arabus arabus is probably the last significant chaos Marine left on the vengeful Spirit Perabo himself is like long gone um potentially there'll be a demon summoned maybe that will fight against rogor but um yeah I'm really interested to see what they do there it's also worth noting that the last time we see rogo Dorn in the book he actually rescues the witch acte who has uh I really to do really needs to do a video on her at some point she has a very long backstory into the horist heresy she is the Blessed Lady of the word bearers if you've ever read first heretic she's actually brought back to life by arabus and becomes a petual goes on this huge Journey she controls the alpha Legion and she actually Jewels against arabus in the second end of the death novel so she has this huge storyline and she has seemingly been watching over Dawn whilst he's been in this desert it's kind of implied because she immediately responds to Dawn and when daor says do you know who I am she says the phrase to him that Dawn been repeating to himself over and over again to keep his sanity which is I am rogor seventh found Primark Primark of the Imperial fists etc etc she says that exact phrase and it looks like malador has been watching Dawn all along as well um Serene yes the name of the character if when she's in the first heretic but the really interesting thing is that you're probably watching right now and going like okay so daor actually kind of Beats chaos in this respect he's kind of fine at this point in time and to be fair he seems to be pretty with it right he definitely seems like he's about to rejoin the fight as it were however the reason I think that this has probably had a much greater effect than the book is initially let on it's because of the iron cage now the iron cage is very old Warhammer 40K law and it is rogal Dawn's greatest mistake it is one of the greatest mistakes that any of the primarchs make and and he nearly loses all of his sons so certainly after the Horus heresy rodor is grieving for his father he actually finds the emperor's body he takes the emperor's body back to the throne room we can only assume that the emperor imparts some sort of wisdom Into Dawn we see malador do a similar thing in the end in the Death volume one and it was always said that the emperor imparts a knowledge of how people should kind of maintain and update The Golden Throne now that he's about to be interred so rodor goes through a lot but ultimately rodor ends up being completely broken as you'll see in this passage here the one real Triumph in the period following the Horus heresy was the reason for perturabo's Ascension to the rank of demon Prince the iron Warriors had been close to breaching the defenses of the Imperial Palace but had abandoned The Siege before horus's fool afterwards their empire was dismantled by the Imperial Fists by virtue of overwhelming superiority of numbers however on sebastos 4 Perabo would set a trap for their Primark by building the self-styled Eternal Fortress upon hearing of the Fortress rogul dor publicly declared that the imperial fists would dig Perabo out of his hole and bring him back to Terror in an iron cage rabou Gilman pleaded with dor to let him help but just as Perabo planned daor was arrogant enough to undertake this Mission alone rogu dor expected honorable battle but that was not perturabo's agenda at all the Eternal Fortress was a sophisticated trap at its Center was a keep sitting in the middle of 20 square miles of bunkers Towers minefields trenches razor wire tank traps and much more radiating out from the keep in the shape of an eight-pointed star were underground tunnels that connected the surface fortifications every entrance to the underground network was concealed and the keep itself was a decoy of no real value most fortifications are limited by the need to protect something the Eternal Fortress was just 20 square miles of killing ground Perabo and the iron Warriors waited below the surface for the first shots of the Imperial fists orbital barrage as soon as it commenced they replied with a number of remote weapon silos located well away from the Fortress the seventh Legion responded with Thunderhawk born troops attacking the silos and a full combat drop of the rest of the Le Legion as soon as the attacks on the silos were underway the missile stockpiles were detonated thousands of tons of debris was HED into sasas atmosphere making communication between ground troops and Fleet virtually impossible the detonation was the signal for the iron Warriors Fleet to attack the traitor fleet was no stronger than that of Dawns but the loyalist thunderhawks were on the planet's surface also the chaos ships had many iron Warriors amongst their compliments eager to man The Assault boats the Imperial fists Fleet tried to hold but was forced inexorably out of position after a few hours the only target being engaged on the planet were coordinates pre-planned by Perabo Under Fire from space the Imperial fists proceeded with their assault in parade ground formation on a four compan front perab watched from an observation tower and carefully began to destroy them first the minefields did their work then when they reached the first expanse of fortifications the iron Warriors manned their trenches and opened fire while the trenches held the Loyalists attention squads of iron warriors with crack grenades and melter bombs emerged from hidden bunkers and attacked the tanks halted by the fortifications the Imperial s turned back to fend off this threat and for a time were pinned down amidst the tank traps once more they rallied and swept forward to overrun the iron Warrior trenches only to find them empty so it continued Perabo dissected the Imperial fists tank by Tank Squad by Squad rogul Dawn remained convinced that victory was in sight and pushed his men on Perabo pulled back some of his Defenders and called upon others to hold a strategy that had fractured the Imperial fists first into companies then into squads by day six of the battle each Marine fought virtually alone and Dawn's troops were reduced to burrowing into the mud and piling up the dead bodies of their brethren for cover still Perabo remained patient he allowed Dawn to Rampage around the trenches calling his name name and demanding personal combat content that the sight of their primarch's impotence would demoralize the Imperial fists the siege of the Eternal Fortress was to last for three more weeks the Imperial fists had burrowed Into The Killing Zone and were unable to escape although his captains called for a breakout rogal Dawn would not give the order he refused to believe the evidence of his eyes and continued to call for one last charge or for Perabo to face him unable to abandon their Primark the Imperial fists prepared to die with him if Perabo had a failing it was that he had grown to enjoy tormenting his enemies too much he could have finished off the Imperial fists at any time but chose not to fortunately for rodor rabou Gilman put the Imp iium before pride and had brought the ultramarines to the rescue the powerful ultramarine Fleet forced the iron Warriors back while their thunderhawks plunged through dust clouds to evacuate the Imperial fists Perabo had no desire to fight two of his brothers and concentrated on preventing the Imperial fists evacuating their dead and wounded was now a Broken Man it would be 19 years before the Imperial fists could once again go to war they left over 400 Marines at the Eternal Fortress and every Refugee carried horrific wounds the genan seed captured was sacrificed to the dark gods in return for perto Rao's elevation to demon prins one insult had been Avenged and since then the iron Warriors have lived only to settle accounts with the corpse on The Golden Throne so that scene is pretty shocking really I think to Imperial fist fans because you're so used to rogal daor being this incredible figure that doesn't get things wrong and I think this is why we need to talk about whether rogo dor has been broken because I think actually annoyingly there was something wrong with the video there but the wording in the book is very very clear and specific that rogul dawn after this is now a broken man but I am not entirely sure that it is just this event that does this so one of the things that you'll notice in that passage is that rogal dor ignores the pleas of his sons and he actually you know insists on pushing on and it's just his pride that is forcing him on to fight against his brother however if we have a look at the end in the Death volume 1 and two in volume one when he's in the desert he discovers the plates and bodies of his dead sons and he Grieves immensely and then in the end in the death of volume two he discovers their bodies again but for real in the inevitable City and he actually picks up this sword of one of his sons and says I am going to plunge this into the red he literally wants to go and fight Korn at this point that's how obviously Furious he is and it's very clear that rogor is devastated to see his sons absolutely butchered as they were so to have this followup event that has rogal Dawn ignoring the plight of his sons and just pushing on and as it says it's it's through pride and arrogance and he's so confident that he can beat Perabo if you're not familiar with their kind of struggle and their rivalry they have been Rivals long before the Horus heresy into the great Crusade and they actually used to like have mock games and and battles with each other often and the iron Warriors even play this game that's basically like Warhammer in the setting it's genuinely pretty on the nose and whenever rogal Dawn and perto Raa used to play any kind of game it was said that daor would always win so dor is so confident that he will beat Perabo when rogal dor becomes the petorian of Terror when the emperor actually asks him can you reinforce the Imperial Palace uh rogor uh insults Perabo and says that that you know if the fortresses are well manned then there is nothing Perabo could do he could never beat my fortresses and Perabo rages at this so he's absolutely Furious and it's a huge 180 because that's that's generally what people think about when they think of the Rivalry is the fact that Perabo was the one that was always really angry and Dawn was the one that was always described as being better but actually in the iron cage it is brutal and absolutely Savage that the iron Warriors could have just destroyed the Imperial fist at any time whenever they wanted to do so they could have just done it but Perabo enjoyed torturing the Imperial fists and his brother so much he just didn't if Gillman hadn't come and saved the Imperial fists the entire Legion would have been lost and this event actually causes perturabo's ascendency creating this undivided demon Prince undivided chaos characters are always incredibly powerful but Perabo whilst he realistically should have been doing more over the last 10,000 years he has been a pretty big blight on the Imperium he is the one that is responsible for creating all of the incredible weapons that abdon and the other chaos Lords use and and rogor creates that he does create this this absolute monster and in the future of Warhammer 40K when all the primar and Chaos primar do return I think you'll see Perabo coming to huge prominence because as you probably heard for it's often said the parabo is the backbone of the traitor forces in the horor heresy and it really is true it really is true and it's terrible so a good look for rout Gillman in this scene because if you're not familiar up until the iron cage rodor and rbout Gillman had a huge argument they disagreed greatly over Gillman's plan to split up the legions into chapters it's called the Codex crisis there was of course fear that it might lead to another civil war it was certainly bad enough that rodor refuses the aid of Gilman in fighting against Perabo and if Gillman hadn't put the Imperium before his pride the Imperial fists would have been lost it's a pretty pretty brutal scene I have this big theory that what we're seeing now in the end the Death volume 2 is the start of the breaking of rodor you know he has spent three centuries he kind of thinks in this desert where he sees the Dead bodies of his sons he's taunted by corn he forgets his own name at times has to remember it and reassert his will he constantly tries to you know torment corn at times by repeatedly writing down battle plans and keep coming up with plans on how to escape and get over this wall and he just can't and then he gets out of this Fortress and he's probably going to fight some demons and stuff and then he finds the you know the dead body of his father has to rebuild the Imperium and then he has the iron cage and by the time he gets to the iron cage the actions that we see of rogor there I think are very different they don't match up with rogor in the heresy you know he like I say he gets he's nothing but net through most of the heresy he's an incredibly likable character you know at the start he's mean to Nathaniel go and I don't like it when people are mean to Nathaniel go so I didn't like that but after that he's a fantastic character and he deals with multiple primarchs for the traitors and after the emperor he's probably the main reason that Terror stands is for as long as it does and allows the ultramarines to actually make it to the cell system so it's a pretty big change I still don't believe 400 Marines of the Fist were the only casualties of this battle I wish to know the legion strength during this battle for both the Fist and the iron ory that's a really good question so this event the iron cage it's referenced occasionally when the iron Warriors and Imperial fists fighting the books for example but it's not been properly chronicled since like fifth edition that's the last time it was properly written about even in the Imperial fist codex They Don't Really delve into the iron cage and I think the reason for that is because we might see events of this recond one of the things that has changed a lot over the last 20 years are the sizes of the legions and how many casualties for example there are in battles so that 400 number might end up being like a 40,000 number in the future although it's worth noting that the imperial fists are a much smaller Legion after the siege of Terror I also think it might just be the case that and it's tough I did look into this it's tough to read from the wording but I think that 400 number is just like they're going to be the 400 Marines who are left behind by the Imperial Fist and the ultramarines they just can't evacuate them and uh their gen is sacrificed to the dark Gods I am really excited to see how they make Perabo a demon Prince so if you're not familiar Perabo kind of hates the chaos by the end of the Horus heresy he's very much like aligned with abon's beliefs if you're a black Legion fan and he thinks like Horus is an idiot Horus is a fool he leaves The Siege in protest and he hates what Horus has become so the idea that he goes from that to becoming a demon Prince is a huge change I should say as well because people often unsure he is definitely a demon Prince so we see him used like Gifts of nurgle in 40K he does meet hanza in like a short story we know for sure is a demon Prince and I know a lot of people are not so sure on that but certainly does mean that we're going to have to go on this huge huge plot development to find out how on Earth Perabo this man who hated chaos ends up as a demon Prince because it just it just doesn't match up as it stands now so that in theory would be a fascinating book in the scouring if we have a side of rogal dor who ends up you know because at the end of the the sieg of Tera rogor is the man you know he is the guy that saved Tera he goes from that to the iron cage and Perabo goes from his position of hating chaos to becoming a demon Prince that's a lot of character development to have so I mean probably M multiple books Perabo is a tricky one he tricked the line and it looks like he tricked on two yeah I mean the tricking of the line people love to read into that like you got to remember everyone was tricked the emperor was tricked by Perabo during this time people of like to go like oh the Lion's such an idiot nobody guessed is Van five was coming it's not like the Salam were like you know I think something's up here they they all get absolutely blasted impal fists are almost wiped out during the iron cage and are basically wiped out during the war of the Beast they have a rough post heresy I mean that is very true it's a big spoiler but they yeah they are wiped out essentially to a man the the chapter of the Imperial fist during the war of the Beast and they have to be kind of reformed using Marines from like loads of other Imperial fist chapters it's pretty it's pretty Savage how do you think they will tie this into ral's disappearance so ral's disappearance is very mysterious again that is something that has already been reccon so in the original Law like if you have a look in like the original Space Marine books it is said that they have rogal daor skeleton in Amber on the fallons however in mon 40K law it said that they only have his fist and the chapter Masters like will scrim shw their names onto the fist that's already a pretty big change there's also a lot of confusion I think around that event kind of understandably because it's said that rogal dor is lost during a Black Crusade now there is this definition of Black Crusade which is like any large incursion into the Imperium from the eye of Terror however abdon wasn't even attacking the Imperium at that stage so how did rogal daor go missing during a Black Crusade if abon's not even properly up and up and running at this point in time seemingly it's just some like meaning meanless Black Crusade that takes rogal Dawn and I don't know it's not a great look but certainly again in terms of rogor being broken it's a pretty good explanation to explain why he abandons the Imperium and you know certainly it seems like he sacrificed himself and more of his sons to save Kadar essentially in this final uh confrontation but he does teleport onto the sword of sacrilege and there's really not much evidence that anybody on the chaos side even believes rogal dor is dead you'd imagine for example that ship the sword of sacrilege being a much bigger thing in the chaos fleets I think the thousand suns have it nowadays and it's not like a centerpiece it's just like a ship they have and there's no chaos Space Marines who are bragging about the fact that they're the one that killed rogal Dawn there's no you know people holding up a helmet that looks like rogo Dawn's helmet and saying this is the real helmet there's no real attempt to convince us that rodor is actually dead Perabo was incredibly pragmatic he probably would have viewed Ascension as essential to Victory potentially there's definitely this side of falling to chaos that you do see where you get this point of like well what else are we going to do the Imperium will never take us back at least there's some sort of Happiness to be had but uh yeah maybe so my idea for how Perabo would Ascend would be that he kind of was experimenting scientifically with chaos and was looking more and more into war magic because the chaos is on the back foot here well the traitor forces at least and so he's like well there is this kind of you know force of chaos that's clearly very powerful maybe he thinks he can Master it in a way that Horus never could because his fear is that he'll end up being used like Horus was used and maybe if he thinks he can kind of scientifically conquer the warp then he will you know then he'll be able to beat the Imperium but at the same time he ends up kind of being tricked by the chaos gods and he ends up ascending kind of uh as a mistake so may maybe they'll write it like that and have it such that paba really didn't want to ascend but through through fault he ends up ascending you're quickly becoming my favorite 40K YouTuber oh thank you so much man I really appreciate that there's a lot of amazing law YouTubers but um yeah it's uh that's always great to read that kind of thing wasn't Peter dying from what forgrim did to him maybe he went to demon to use chaos and be the character who actually takes advantage of chaos potentially yeah you you could do that you could say it was he was dying he never F away to beat it and yeah yeah I guess the only thing with that is it kind of there's nothing wrong with this but it kind of runs quite similar to angr on storyline in a way because angron also was Theory dying and he uh L has him asent to demon Hood to save him could rogul return as a Dreadnaught Primark that would be amazing that would be really really cool I think one of the other things about rogo Dawn's return that is a really cool thing to think about all of the primarch at the moment the the designers the GW have confirmed are getting a piece of The Emperor's War gear so Gillman has the emperor's sword uh the lion has the emperor's shield and the question is what is Rog dor going to get and there's kind of a process of elimination we can go down uh rodor has uh Leman Russ has the Spear the emperor has a claw which rodor could use potentially over that hand that he's lost on The Sword of sacr but at the same time primarch are supposed to be able to regrow limbs so full Grim does this during the heresy for example before he becomes a demon Prince so maybe he'll just regrow the limb but him having the claw would work I'd quite like to see corus have the claw because corus loves claws basically um but you could also give like corvus maybe like a cloak uh rodor could have maybe like a big chunk of his armor that would make sense because he already loves loves The Bling doesn't he he's a big Golden Boy but um yeah it's kind of kind of interesting uh Dawn live stomp stomp of course uh it sets up him getting the empress claw as his Prime oh there we go as his Prim weapon if he returns because his hand is gone yeah I mean the claw would make sense I think I just quite I quite like the idea in my head of cor korax coming back being this big shadow monster and he has one black claw and then one Golden Claw I that would be awesome I I think that would be really cool but um yeah I guess you could probably be cheeky with it and give like you could give corvis like the emperor's cloak or something like that but coras can't really get any more invisible he's already invisible visible enough but although the other thing that's really interesting sorry just spitballing the loyalist primarch we think or I think will probably have started experimenting more and more with the warp so corvus is the best example because we see him fight lar in the book Shadows of the past and he has incredible psychic power in there but also I'd imagine someone like Leman Russ we'll see come back and he'll have like various kind of uh Thunder Powers Etc like kind of like Thor to Odin o Thor to Odin transition would be complete and I'd quite like to see a a bunch of the primar messing around with psychic powers and so potentially they could get gifts from the emperor's Armory that enhance their psychic abilities that could be pretty cool so you could get that way as well sorry that's a really fun topic I'm totally stream about that one day maybe um uh part Perabo will be a chaos rad of immense proportion I think I think i' I'd like to see Perabo as a massive metal dragon I think kind of like the ultimate demon engine that's how I imagine Perabo but yeah I don't know I I always think of him like a massive metal dragon there is like a very very vague description of him uh in a short story but it could be like anything he's just like he's a demon and he's Lord of iron uh so yeah there's definitely metal involved it is interesting another thing to note is that in the Beast arises Vulcan does say that he'll speak uh he'll let Dawn know about his incredible sons and so it's very much implied that Dawn and Vulcan are potentially in talks during uh during at least the kind of 32nd Millennium so maybe Dawn and Vulcan are hanging out I've also quite liked the idea that maybe Vulcan or sorry that I've also quite like the idea that maybe daor is in the throne room so maybe he has felt so guilty about the the interment of the emperor he actually watches over Dawn from the throne room and that would kind of make sense because no one goes in there if you got most people if they go in there they die and you just have to ask the custodians to be quiet about it and they probably will be so they think that Mak sense uh and if that's the case then in theory Gillman and Vulcan or whoever might have already met with dor so be pretty cool I hope chaos Perabo model has who you hope he's a tow interesting that that would be a hell of a change I agree that uh Barabas dantioch and Alexis Pollock show exactly how close D parts of Perabo would have been if they put their differences aside yeah that's true I mean Perabo is one of those primarchs that I kind of get it you know he he's childish in a lot of ways and he's a ridiculously short temper but at the same time he he gets horrible jobs from the emperor the uh campaign against the frud is just brutal like no one would want that's like the worst war you could possibly fight they have like time stop time slowing powers and so all of these all these iron Warriors end up aging so much that's why dantioch is quite old and frail by the time we see him in the Horus heresy it's it's pretty brutal talk about the greatness of Vulcan or I'm leaving uh I mean Vulcan is very likeable character I mean this is the thing like Vulcan comparing Vulcan and Dawn storyline for example is pretty Savage Vulcan and corvis corx get a really hard time in the heresy like it's just brutal it's not just IST van five is five or yeah it's five afterwards like you know Vulcan gets tortured corvus tries to rebuild his Legion and it goes horrifically wrong he has to slaughter his own Sons it's just Savage whereas rodor is just like you know ah he finds G he goes to Tera he he's you know he re fortifies the Imperial Palace he beats alarus he leads them during the siege of error he delays them for a huge period of time he beats FG Grim it's just incredible incredible win after win after win he anticipates what the tracers are going to do it just it's brutal so it's I I honestly would expect to see rogor get a real hard time in the cage I'm afraid to to say because it there's some sort of balancing out here has to happen um you know like we've seen I mean Gillman technically doesn't doesn't lose too much but he does kind of die to be fair uh didn't the emperor also have a power fist he used it to knock out Lian Russ so maybe D get that I mean the emperor would have a massive Library I think I think what they mean when they say we'll get a piece of The Emperor's armor is in that classic those classic IAL pictures of the emperor fighting on the vengeful spirit all of the primarchs get a piece of that war gear that's what I'd guess but in in theory yes the emperor has this massive library and he he can give them all 20 suits of armor each he's probably got them fine I hope Dawn gets the claw and Vulcan The Gauntlet modified into a power fit I mean that's true yeah I guess you can kind of change the size of things like uh The Shield The Shield was a really clever it was a clever idea yeah that makes a lot of sense and it's broken as well in is going like the if you haven't read AR of omen like the previous book angron angron like he finds The Sweet Spot but he destroys a planet with one of his blows and there's like Corn's power behind this blow and then Lion's just like shrugging them off sending angron flying off do you think if dor is alive and in the warp he will have mutated evolved like corvus if so what would he be I don't think they would have done that for Dawn I think there's a chance you'd see that for Leman Russ and you'll see like a a very Odin lemon Russ that's what I would guess you'll see that's why he's got the spear he's described as being very old like the lion in his Primark novel when he finally leaves and I think you'll see him with some sort of FL warp lightning powers that's my guess but that's it for this stream thank you so much for watching if you do enjoy this content please do click the like button you can subscribe to the channel you can join the channel by clicking the join button on the page below that makes a lot of sense doesn't it but thank you so much for watching I hope you enjoyed it and I'll see you next time

Channel: Sandman of Terra

Views: 68,378

Keywords: warhammer, warhammer 40000, space marines, wh40k, space marine, warhammer40k, warhammer 40k, warhammer 40k shorts, warhammer shorts lore, imperial fists, imperial fists lore, the scouring warhammer, warhammer 40k the scouring, primarch, primarchs 40k, primarchs warhammer, primarch fates, rogal dorn primarch, rogal dorn warhammer 40k, rogal dorn lore, rogal dorn disappearance, black crusade 40k, perturabo, iron warriors, perturabo daemon prince

Id: TM0RGlO8EII

Length: 46min 30sec (2790 seconds)

Published: Thu Nov 23 2023