Was Ted Bundy Sorry? Final Interview Body Language Analysis

well hey there idiots welcome back to observe in today's video we're going to be analyzing the nonverbal communication of ted bundy during his last and final interview ever this was shortly before he was executed via electric chair more on that in just a minute let's go ahead and roll the intro [Music] theodore robert bundy was born on november 24th in 1946 while he claimed he had an overall happy and average childhood many describe bundy as having a difficult childhood he spent his early years with his maternal grandparents who raised him as their son bundy was said to have thought that his mother was his sister by a prison psychologist who once interviewed bundy in the documentary the ted bundy tapes he apparently didn't find out who his birth mother was until later in life along with this a forensic psychologist and fbi and law enforcement consultant stated that bundy exhibited signs of conduct disorder as a child this was further amplified as a young bundy began to avidly view violent pornography he stated in his final interview that he felt the need to take in more extreme content to give himself the same feeling until he finally realized what he had to do to take it to the next level while his first attack occurred early in 1974 his first killing occurred on or around february 1st of 1974 from that point on through the year of 1978 according to his own confession he killed kidnapped and assaulted more than 30 women in seven states while escaping from prison twice after his final arrest in 1979 bundy insisted on acting as his own attorney and even cross-examined witnesses during his trial however he was found guilty of murder and was sentenced to death via electric chair over the next 10 years legalities would play out bundy was even married during this imprisonment and had a child however he was later divorced and was executed by electric chair at 706 a.m on january 24 1989 at florida state prison in stark florida so this interview occurs like i said very shortly before his death and what i wanted to be able to do is take the time to break down his nonverbal communication to see if there were any signs of genuine remorse was he a psychopath was he something else and just see what we can learn from a legendary serial killer now ted bundy we did jeffrey dahmer a while ago and i'm going to continue down the list of some of these very well-known serial killers to see if there's any pattern that pops up that's enough talking though let's go ahead and begin the analysis [Music] ted it is uh about 2 30 in the afternoon you are scheduled to be executed tomorrow morning at 7 00. okay so this is obviously a little bit later in bundy's life like i said it's closer to where he was about to be executed and this is an interview between him and dr james dobson i have already done one analysis of ted bundy in an earlier interview before this specific one and if you would like to go and watch that please feel free to do so it kind of plays off of this one and vice versa but neither are needed for the other to be understood if that makes sense anyway i have kept in mind some of his verbal and nonverbal patterns from the other analysis that i have done but he is also much older in this one than the one before so we'll still be hammering out some of those details if you don't receive another stay what is going through your mind what thoughts have you had in these last few days well i won't get you to say that it's something that i feel that i am in control of or something that i've come to terms with because i haven't so something that occurred much more often in bundy's prior interview it was a lot more smiling manipulation in that form he doesn't do that here of course also this is a very different circumstance from the other interviewer back then he believed that he had the ability to get free still and was still fighting for that here he's saying that he doesn't accept what's happening but there's not really a way around it and so we can see that kind of somber resolve on his face and that actually plays out characteristically throughout this entire interview let's continue it's a moment by moment thing sometimes i feel very tranquil and other times i don't feel tranquil at all what's going through my mind right now is to use the minutes and hours that i have left as fruitfully as possible and see what happens it helps to to live in the moment in the in the essence that we use it productively so i'm right so so far what i'm saying just non-verbally from him he has an average blinking rate overall it's not overly fast it's not overly slow so we can pay attention to how spikes appear in that he did have a pretty substantial swallow in there at one point but this is the beginning of an interview makes a lot of sense for that to happen nothing so far has been an anomaly for me to stick out to be like hey we really need to hone in and focus in on this but also the question doesn't really require that kind of response so let's keep looking at this right now i'm feeling calm and in large part because i'm here with you for the record you are guilty of killing many women and girls yes yes that's true ted after you committed your first murder what so he also maintains this like to the side and up out of the top of the corner of his eye kind of look at the person the entire time and i'm not sure as to why that is i'm not sure that there is a psychological reason for that the head tilted downwards could be a sign of his somberness or feeling of defeat because it is a very imminent deadline that's approaching if that makes sense so that's what could be happening here i'm not dead positive regardless it doesn't have too much to be able to give as far as information goes so i just wanted to make note that that has shown up here i have seen that i've noticed that but there's not too much to be able to say as to why that is let's continue was the emotional effect on you what happened in the days after that so this is a partial steeple this could be seen as a power move a full steeple is up here like this all fingers pressed against each other like that and that is a power move it's definitely a domination gesture so the partial one coming up here i don't think that he's trying to be in any special way dominating or anything along those lines but he does seem to press his fingers against his mouth pretty substantially there and that could be an indicator that he's going to be talking about something that is pretty negative or something along those lines regardless i will let you know that body language reading is still fairly new we're trying to navigate what tells can mean what and if there are any universal ones in body language reading in nonverbal communication that usually lies largely on the face and with that there is the facial coding system that allows us to be able to see these replicated expressions in multiple different scenarios it's scientifically proven to be able to be a reliable source of information body language reading is still trying to follow along with that many people know that term but the correct term is non-verbal communication reading and so with his body language it's still pretty difficult to say that that specific tell had any specific mean so let's let's continue to see what happens against please understand that even all these years later it's very difficult to talk about it and and so he's having a lot of vocal difficulty speaking and you could see the consternation across his face with his drawn together lowered eyebrows and the pressed lips as well that's all adding to that general emotional group but that's a very easy one to fake anybody can kind of look somber at the drop of a hat that's not the hardest thing to do even in acting for instance if you think about soap operas everybody is real great at looking somber about something it's not hard to do that it's whether or not it's genuine or not it's difficult to say that he's really feeling somber here or not there's not enough tails to be able to say but those are things that we're making note of and with the vocal halting in there as well that could be an indicator that he is genuinely feeling some form of emotional difficulty recollecting these not enough to say for sure yet but let's continue reliving it through talking about it it's difficult to say the least but i want you to understand what happened it was like coming out of some kind of horrible trance or dream i can only liken it to after you know i don't want to over dramatize it but to have been possessed by something so awful and so alien and then the next morning wake up from it remember what happened and realize that basically i mean in the eyes of the law certainly in the eyes of god you're responsible and to have to wake up in the morning and and realize what i had done and with a clear mind and all so he's he's having some odd vocal patterns in there a lot of stuttering and restarting and things like that which doesn't lend me to believe that he's rehearsed these statements in any form beforehand so i don't know that he actually got a list of questions i highly doubt it in fact but it seems as though he's genuinely coming up with them as they go along and he's trying to think through what he's saying as he's saying it ergo all of the vocal stops some interesting things that he said verbally that do parallel with dahmer from earlier is bundy says that he feels like he was in some sort of trance or coming out of a trance feeling like he's being possessed and dahmer recollected something very similar of exiting a certain phase or feeling of some form or another after doing the deeds now this is an interesting aspect all the way around it could be their brains attempting to form a shell of protection around what they had done it could be them blowing smoke at us to be able to make us feel like they had some form of of reason to do it even if their reason is that they couldn't help themselves but what's interesting to me is that both ted and dahmer both said that everything was on them but bundy doesn't hold to that he says that this is all his fault and then he goes to try to explain away what caused him to do it and it's a weird kind of dichotomy that exists with bundy specifically that doesn't necessarily exist with dahmer so it's just curious i will also note that bundy pulls in a lot of religious speak in this he pulls out a lot of speaking about god and god's will and plan and at the very end dobson asks if bundy has accepted jesus as his savior and so on and so forth so that it makes sense where bundy's at in his life to be this close to death many people will out of desperation turn to religion and hope of something you know so that does make sense coming in here i don't know that it's a manipulation ploy it could very well still be from bundy a manipulation ploy but i'm not sure let's continue all my essential moral and ethical feelings intact at that moment absolutely horrified that i was capable of doing something like that you really hadn't known that before uh there is just absolutely no way to describe first so during that time where he's shaking his head in response to that you didn't know that before question he has a substantial expression of contempt and then that's also mixed in with consternation as well through the top half of his face and those do make sense as bundy's trying to express a feeling that he knows he only is feeling especially in the room there and then also trying to add the weight that his actions would have required if that makes sense so that specific emotional display does make sense in context with what's happening there so far he's being quite synchronized as to whether or not he's feeling genuine remorse i'm not quite sure yet let's continue the brutal urge to do that kind of thing and then what happens is once it it is very interesting he's hunching up a fair bit both hunching down and raising his shoulders up as well and he does this flash look off to the side here now you can hear that there are many other people at least in the room or in the vicinity to where he's easily distracted but to be easily distracted in a point like this it's a self-conscious feeling thing or a desire to escape possibly would be this reason that he flashes the look off to the side that way he doesn't obviously really want to be there and that does make sense contextually as well let's continue more or less satisfied and reseed you might say or spent that sense that kind of energy level recedes and basically i became my myself again and i want people to understand this too and i'm not saying this gratuitously because it's important people understand this that basically i was a normal person i i wasn't some guy hanging out at bars or a bum or i wasn't a pervert in the sense that you know people look at somebody and say i know there's something wrong with him and just tell that's interesting though where he was saying i wasn't a pervert he does raise his hands up this could be seen as a blocking gesture like i said body language has its limits but then he also flashes a little grimace in there as well now this could just be all that his nose started itching there in fact the likelihood is so with that i'm not hanging too much on the fact that he did reach up and then have a itchy nose during that time as well now what it could be an indicator of is agitation people's nerves will start firing off itchiness will occur whenever you're agitated so that could be part of it but as far as it being a lie or you could tell because you itched his nose or anything along those lines there's no way to be able to hang any scientific evidence on that so neither am i let's continue i mean i i was essentially a normal person i had good friends i i i lived a normal life except for this one small but very potent and very destructive segment of it that i kept very secret very close to myself and didn't let anybody know about it and part of the shock and horror for my dear friends and family one years ago when i was first arrested was that they just there was no clue they looked at me and they looked at the you know the real quick i'm gonna pause this here and make a note about how he is speaking of and processing his own relationship to his friends and family and everything in regards to what he really was and what they saw so he seems to have a fairly solid third person perspective on this and i will also make note that he didn't mention anything about the emotional states that would go along with being normal so again this is still cloudy for me because he still hasn't really drawn attention to guilt or remorse genuinely and in such a way that i could see so he's saying that he was completely normal whether or not that includes the normal gambit of emotions we're not quite certain so i can't say yet yes he's obviously a psychopath or he's obviously a sociopath let's continue watching and gathering some more information um the all-american boy and i'm i mean that wasn't perfect but it was i want to be quite candid with you i wasn't i was okay okay uh i was and the base interesting so he's really started to animate a little bit more especially when dobson comes in and kind of either tries to interrupt or is adding to vocally regardless the physical response from bandi is the same he becomes more animated and more passionate and brings out a specific gesture here as well and that's fascinating that he has that sort of passion centered around him being a quote-unquote normal human normal boy at that time and so my question is why is he focusing on that so much here especially down here at the end of his life is he really just trying to wrap things up maybe is he trying to manage his image after he's gone or perhaps he's still holding on to hope that he's not going to be executed shortly thereafter obviously he was but perhaps he was thinking that he wasn't going to be i'm not sure i will say that it is simply interesting that his nonverbal communication spikes while speaking about him being an average normal perceivably average and normal human let's continue humanity and basic spirit that god gave me was intact but it unfortunately became overwhelmed at times and you know if i were able to ask you the questions that are being asked out there one of the most important as you come down to perhaps your final hours are you thinking about all those victims out there and their families so during that time where dobson says your final hours if you look at bundy's eyes during that time you could see just the slightest movement of sadness creep in there which i think does make sense contextually also he's keeping his fingers in front of his mouth regularly this could be seen as his self-soothing or self-pacifying gesture that manipulator to your mouth is definitely one of those common ones that pops up for people who are feeling a certain level of nerves so that could be the case here as well just still things that we're making note of it looks like we're about to get some better questions here so let's see how they play out well who are so wounded you know years later their lives have not returned to normal they will never return to normal absolutely are you carrying that load that way is the remorse there again i i know that people will accuse me being self-serving but we're beyond that now i mean i'm just telling you how i feel but through god's help i have been able to come to the point where i much too late but better late than never feel the hurt and the pain that i am responsible for yes absolutely in the past few days myself and this one's very interesting to me he's still carrying out his characteristic tilted and mostly looking down sometimes looking up at the person he's now looking down far more often than he's looking up which is interesting that dropping of gaze that could be related to shame why that shame is there is another question but then he's also saying yes absolutely he's reiterating and also showing desynchronization between his head movements and his words so during that whole time with the eyes dropping the desynchronization and the reiteration of something that was already there as if to amplify it does push me to believe that perhaps he still doesn't feel that way is this enough absolutely not but it is something that it's alerting me to that possibility now so that's something that i'm just keeping in mind as this continues forward and brought it up so that you can as well a number of investigators have been talking about unsolved cases murders that i was involved in and it's hard it's hard to talk about all these years later because speaking again about his crimes and by a roundabout way the people involved in them he does have another substantial reach up and it's his nose sort of thing now this could be his tell of agitation that he's showing in this way perhaps right now it's just more information that we've gathered because it revives in me all those terrible feelings and those thoughts that i have steadfastly and and diligently dealt with i think successfully with the love of god and yeah let's reopen that and i so that's an interesting pattern right there that does seem to be a little bit telling as to how his relationship with religion actually is playing out and he's talking about how he has done this thing he did this and had done this well instead fastly and so on and so forth and then at the very end he tags on with the love of god and his quality of tone drops off dramatically and the pitch of his tone drops off dramatically and then that kind of does indicate that that might not have as much confidence behind those words as he had a little bit before seconds before as he was speaking about his actions so it does seem as though he might be using religion as a perception management thing to be able to come across as more of a human at the very final days i'm not sure it is still just something that i'm keeping track of i felt the pain and i felt the horror again of all that can you help me understand this desensitization process that took place what was going on in your mind well by desensitization i describe it in specific terms is that each time i'd harm someone each time i kill someone to be an enormous amount especially at first enormous amount of horror guilt remorse afterwards but then that impulse to do it again would come back even stronger now believe me so this is an important part he's talking about the feelings centered around it this is why we're here this is why we're curious and he's doing his characteristic gestures looking down to the side eyes may be closed sometimes at very least hooded very relaxed and this look of consternation in his eyebrows or concentration somberness perhaps those sorts of emotions are playing out but what's interesting is his speed of talking has changed centered around those remorse and those general emotions that you would hope to and expect to hear he kind of rushes by them and then talks and talks more about the actions that he would do later and how it would come back around and and continue throughout so that's an interesting thing that he did just breeze by those so fast without focusing on them very much at very least that can be an indicator that to him those aren't as important of the story as the surrounding details that he focused on more very fascinating let's continue i didn't the unique thing about how this worked dr dobson is that i still felt in my regular life the full range of guilt and remorse about other things uh regret and you had this compartmentalized this compartmentalized very well focused uh uh a very sharply focused area where i was like a black hole it was like a you know like a crack and everything that fell under that crack just disappeared does that make sense yeah it does so i saw no anomalies during that time to push me away from believing him that he was really genuinely feeling guilt and remorse and those emotions that you and i would like to hear him say he had him describing his actions and his behaviors definitely sounds more like a compulsion an issue with compulsion control rather than uh psychopathy or something like that it sounds as if he wanted a stimulus to such an extent that everything else would fade away or become less important that's fascinating to me just so everybody watching this now i am not a psychologist i am a nonverbal analyst i do have understanding of psychology but that's not where my degree lies so please take any of my words about him having any compulsion control or psychopathy or sociopathy with a little bit more of a grain of salt because i'm not fully educated in that area so just just letting you know that especially if some of you who are watching this are are in possession of a psychology degree or something along those lines and might know a little bit better i'm really just speaking from kind of second-hand experience on that so just letting you know that let's continue one of the the final uh murders that you committed of course uh was apparently little kimberly leach 12 years of age uh i think the the so dobson mentions the name of the girl and bundy takes a breath in and does a postural change as well and that means that whatever dobson has said struck a specific emotional like cord in bundy i think we're about to find out what that is here but it definitely did happen there so let's see how that plays out public outcry is greater there because an innocent child was taken from a from a playground what did you feel after that what was there were there the abnormal emotions just a massive increase in manipulators is specifically centered around agitation as you see him wringing his hands he's stroking his hands across his mouth like that as he moves from side to side postural changes looking down looking up it's a whole burst of action in his nonverbal baseline centered around this this specific girl that dobson mentioned and so as a nonverbal analyst looking at that i know for a fact that whatever he's about to say it's going to be negative in relation to that just due to his nonverbal communication leading up to this point so let's see how that plays out three days later where were you dead i i can't really talk about that right now that's oh yeah it's too painful i would like to i'd like to be able to convey to you what that that that experience is like but i can't that i won't be able to talk about that okay [Music] hmm hmm interesting so during that time bundy does a good job at showing negative emotion he seems to be having emotional difficulties centered around this incident that dobson's describing and he continually has his eyes down during the entire time he has vocal halting in there as well it sounds as if his vocal cords are tensing up it sounds like he's about to maybe be emotional or something along those lines and that all sounds very convincing up until this very last part where he flashes a look upwards and the emotional state is not there that desynchronization between the top half and the lower half of his face is interesting as his eyes are showing more cold calculating expressions as he checks up to see if dobson is emoting correctly that's very interesting definitely a big red flag but we'll talk about it at the end i can't begin to understand well i can try but i'm i'm aware that i can't begin to understand the pain that the parents of these of these children that i have and these young women that i have harmed feel and i can't restore really much to them if anything i won't pretend to and i don't even expect them to forgive me and i'm not asking for it that that kind of forgiveness is of god and if they have it they haven't they don't well maybe they'll find it someday do you deserve the punishment the state has inflicted upon you this is still interesting to me because now we can see him checking back in as a as a normal conversation style looking up out of the corner of his eye as he has been doing throughout the rest of it but it's not the same calculated hard expression that we saw right after his display earlier that little blip there seems to be fairly substantial it might be might be fairly revealing it's genuinely interesting to me how he's displaying oh yeah i'll we'll we'll talk about our thoughts at the end of this let's go that's a very good question and our lines are very very honestly uh i don't want to die i'm not going to kid you i'll kid you not the smile that he's having there it's not a genuine joy smile and i know that all of you probably know this and many of you will cope with difficult things the same way with this grim smile another time that i could think of it happening here on the channel that i've seen would be during the johnny depp and amber heard deposition back and forth all of that nightmare that occurred johnny depp had that smile creep in while talking about the abuse that amber had towards him so it's this grim humorless smile that many people will have in response to difficult things so that is popping up here on bundy's level that doesn't mean that he's not a psychopath or a sociopath so let's continue i deserve certainly the most extreme punishment society has and i deserve i think society deserves to be protected from me and from others like me that's for sure um i think what i what i hope will come of our discussion is i think society deserves to be protected from itself ted as you would imagine there's tremendous cynicism about you on the outside and i suppose for good reason i'm not sure that there's anything that you could say that people would would believe some people would believe yeah and yet you told me last night and i have heard this through our mutual friend john tanner that you have accepted the forgiveness of jesus christ and are a follower and a believer in him do you draw strength from that as you approach these final hours i do i can't say that it's going to be being in the valley of the shadow of death is is something that i've become all that accustomed to and then i you know and then i'm strong and nothing's bothering me uh listen it's no fun it's it's it you know it's it's a it gets kind of lonely and yet i have to remind myself that every one of us will go through this someday in one way or another and countless of millions who have walked this earth before us have so this is just an experience which we all share yeah right now so he also still turns it back to religion at the end of this so we saw some interesting patterns throughout this we saw some displays of what we would hope to be able to see in regards to the shame or guilt or remorse that you might hope to see but then it sprinkled in with some oddities in there as well and i will point out at the very end it's interesting how quickly he can crash back and forth between like say when he's sipping his his drink and putting it back down and that general emotive group right around to another one it's odd that he does make that crash relatively fast now from this interview alone i wouldn't say that this interview was enough to be able to say whether or not he's a psychopath or a sociopath if he felt guilty or not i will say that it pushed me further in the direction of him not feeling guilty but i really i really cannot be sure i did appreciate seeing the parallels between bundy and dahmer and how they each thought and processed and how they entered into a certain way before carrying out their crimes that was interesting to me that parallel was very clear bundy was different he was a very different criminal in general his his separation between normal-ish life and crime was very outstanding and it seemed as though it spilled over somewhat into his mind as well now during this time there's always the possibility like at this specific interview that he could be working on dissociating from what's going on and pulling his mind back to not experience it would make sense in context for him to do that and that could be lending towards some of those tells where i'm seeing those misalignments i think that i think that bundy was in full control during his his killing spree i don't think that this was something that he was overcome with anything that he couldn't stop or anything along those lines i do believe that this was more of a compulsion issue than anything else i'm not certain that he does feel the guilt and shame and everything that we would expect him to feel what i'm curious is that he might think he does feel those but is more so worried about impression management and the repercussions of the negative actions all in all very interesting let me know what you think in the comments below i've given you my opinions on it i've let you see kind of what the science side of things can show you if there's something that i've missed please feel me in i i can't spend all of my my hours studying each of these cases i try to spend as much time as i can but i mean i i do have limits so if i've missed something and you think that it could really add to the perspective that we have here please leave leave it in the comments below also if you do have any other requests or suggestions that's the way to do it hit the like button if you haven't hit subscribe all that this channel is partnered as always with the emotional intelligence academy out of the uk so if you would like to be able to get a fully accredited master's degree in nonverbal communication reading more or less it's a different title but that's more or less it follow the link in the description below you'll get 10 off along with that there's a whole pile of other courses along with one called getting to the truth and you get a massive discount off of that especially if you're just wanting to kind of wet your toes so to speak in this field get an idea of whether or not you like it that would be a great way of doing it i highly suggest it i'm going through their master's degree at this moment and so i mean i i'll let that be a testament to it or not but but without further ado that's all that i've got for today my name is logan and you have been oh so awesome as you always are and i will see you in the next video cheers [Music] you

Channel: Observe

Views: 650,169

Keywords: Logan Portenier, Observe, Mentalist, Lie to Me, body language, nonverbal, psychology, React, Analysis, lying, detection, reading, behavior

Id: ty4Dr6aGnTo

Length: 37min 16sec (2236 seconds)

Published: Fri Sep 10 2021