Trump on Trial: Inside the courtroom Day 10 | Live Q&A

for sure hey everybody it's Katie Fang host of the Katy Fang show I'm also a legal contributor at MSNBC I'm so grateful that you're joining us for second live stream that we're doing it is day 10 of the Trump New York election interference trial there's been so much that's been going on and look I get it it's been a little bit of choppiness right I mean there's been days where there hasn't been any Court they started a little bit later they've recessed a little bit early in fact tomorrow they're going to strap back up at 9:30 but recess a little bit early at 3:45 what we want to do today is get you caught up to speed we're going to start with today day 10 of Trump's election interference trial we've got some amazing aming guests that are waiting right now on the sidelines to join us they're going to lend their insight and their analysis as to what is the impact of what's going on it'll run the gamut from legal to political to a little bit of something else put your questions though in the chat we are endeavoring to move faster and more efficiently to be able to get those questions to our guests and to make sure that they're answered and we appreciate it as always that you guys are here and you're tuning in for this experience and so what I want to do right now is bring in a fan favorite one of my brilliant brilliant friends that can really help us get a bigger picture idea of what's going on in this trial and that's Molly Jong fast so we're gonna welcome Molly to our live stream right now on YouTube thank you thanks for having me Katie you can hear me I can hear you and Molly Welcome to our YouTube live stream that we do here on msnbc's channel on YouTube Molly just a couple of quick takeaways from you I just want to start with the end of the day working with this guy who is a tech forensic expert at the Manhattan DA's office I mean listen some of those Witnesses are dry right you need them to be able to get evidence in and the evidence that we heard today at the end of the day the jury hears about that recorded conversation between Donald Trump and Michael Cohen where in Michael says that he's spoken to Allen as in Allan Weisberg and they talk about this plan you hear Trump suggesting paying cash and in the end you hear Cohen saying no no no I got it I got it so I mean Molly think about it this is kind of like one of the bigger Blockbuster moments that this jury's probably been waiting for right yeah I also think it's pretty interesting that they're that they wait around to see if he wants to wait and see if maybe he won't have to pay right I mean that seems like an important data point because remember this whole case hit is on the theory that he is doing this to interfere with the election it's not about Melania it's not about protecting the kids it's really about trying to win the 2016 election and so everything he says like that makes the case right where he you know he says maybe we won't have to pay he says you know we're you know what the sort of setting the table with the the um the aess Hollywood table coming out and then knowing that the walls are sort of closing in and he's got these two other women so he really is sort of setting up this the the prosecution is setting up this story of a man who did something who made a campaign contribution to help his campaign to keep these stories from getting out Molly let's talk about how do you think the jury receives and remember this is a jury of quote unquote Donald Trump's peers right um I'm not sure if I'd ever want to have that label but but how do you think they're receiving hearing that Donald Trump's then fixer and personal attorney his guy that that Cohen refers to Trump as the boss right I mean there is a very interesting very intense relationship there between Trump and Cohen but if you're the jury and you're sitting there Molly and you're hearing that Cohen is secretly recording his boss you know the guy that you know he's doing all of this dirty work for do you think that's well ceed by the jury do you think it's bad that they're hearing that I mean it's great for the prosecution this is like Smoking Gun evidence but do you think they're kind of like that's kind of shady that the guys recording his boss in this way well well so this is the fundamental always has been the fundamental problem with this case is Michael Cohen which is why Michael Cohen has not testified right we had David pecker testify because David pecker is not a person who's written any books about Donald Trump right he doesn't David pecker is completely not emotional his story is the story of catch and kill and doing all the things in the mainstream media the things that the that Trump says the mainstream media does David pecker did right so all the corruption the stuff that we actually don't do in the mainstream media because it's so beyond the pale journalistically that stuff David pecker did for Trump so he made up stories about the other Republicans running in the primary he made up stories about Hillary Clinton when Trump won the primary and then he also ran these very flattering stories about Trump and then he also crushed these these two women stories he bought them he he gave them money in order not to run them so these were all things to put his finger on the STA scale and you'll remember that John Edwards had a similar scenario right where he had a secret affair the inquir published that story it was the end of John Edward's career so you can really see I mean obviously it's a different party it's a different person it's a it's a different time but the national Inquirer is more than capable of ending a political career yes so we're going to bring in Charles Coleman MSNBC legal analyst and Adam Reese who is our producer extraordinaire who's been in the courtroom following not only this trial but others Adam I want to start with you give us a little bit of color from inside the courtroom today I was just talking to Molly about the fact that that recorded conversation between Michael Cohen and Donald Trump where they're talking about the payment that needs to be made Trump suggesting that it's in cash I mean I know that Trump has been closing his eyes and benefit of the doubt is the dude's meditating but we don't really think that's the case Adam tell us about whether or not there was any extra attention being paid by Trump during that type of testimony from Davidson and even during this records custodian guy this Tech forensic guy talking about that recorded call or recorded conversation do we have Adam I don't think we have Adam right now we're working on it all right Charles Charles are you there I'm here Charles Charles let's talk about the legal import the legal import I I wrote the other day a piece about don't sleep on the records custodians these people that seem so boring sometimes these witnesses that seem like they're not really the sexy ones but they're the ones that get the evidence in we saw that happen this afternoon with this guy who's The Tech Guy your thoughts about the fact that now the jury has recess for the day and even though both on behalf of trump has gotten up to start his cross the jury has been left with that recorded conversation between Cohen and Trump basically memorializing the conspiracy to hush money pay and the way that it was going to be done well I think for those of us who haven't tried cases before this is a really important time to sort of understand that we have settled into a normal Rhythm and Cadence for what it is to trial to try cases every day is not going to be explosive every moment is not going to be ible you're going to have these Progressive es and flows throughout the course of a trial with witnesses that may not seem like on the surface super duper incredibly interesting but have a purpose and these custodians these record custodians are an example of that because they're absolutely imperative in a case like this for multiple reasons on the surface you want to be able to bring in certain documents to authenticate them and to understand and get the jury to understand that these are things that are important pieces of evidence that are valid that the defense is not going to be able to challenge the authenticity of but beyond that in a case like the prosecution has here if today showed us anything Katie and I'm so glad you brought that up because it's such an interesting contrast if we learned anything about this case today is that it is extremely messy and it deals with a bunch of messy individuals you're talking about the president a playmate and a porn star and hush money payments I mean this is you know it it it could not sound more salacious than it actually is all of these Witnesses for the most part have a number of different credibility issues whether it's the motives that they have around getting back at the former president for whatever it is that they did not get from him that they thought they were entitled to Allah Michael Cohen whether it's trying to advance your career Allah Stormy Daniels and the way the prosecution is going to deal with that is to focus on the actual documents they're gonna focus on the things that are indisputable and undeniable and so in order to have those things get put in front of the jury you need these authentication witnesses to substantiate everything that they're going to see and validate it in such a way that you cannot argue against it so that's why even though they're not the ones with the sexy testimony and the explosive you know accounts of what was going on behind the scenes they're critically important to establishing the actual case that the prosecution has to prove yeah if they don't oh go ahead Molly Sor can I just add one thing um why ER is such good witness is because he's not like that he has a relationship with Trump and there are we're going to see other Witnesses like that the the assistant uh then also um hope Hicks so there are not every witness is so you know problematic as Michael Cohen I mean I think he is so what I think is smart is what they're doing is they're doing it in a very slow way so that he really comes up at the end so that there's a real complete story and then he is just additive and I think what you're saying is the anxiety that a lot of us had was that this story all hinged on him and the fact that there really is uh a lot more I think is is a big deal yeah Charles we're gonna get to a viewer question right now it's coming from Rob Rob thanks for tuning in to our YouTube live stream those of you put your questions in here Rob's asking did stormy Daniel sign an NDA or not can she testify it's actually a great question for Rob right Charles because normally with a non-disclosure you can't testify but she should be appearing via a subpoena so does that change things legally for stormy danels can she testify if she's been subpoena she can testify she's been subpoena and that is something that we would likely see and be and be bought up it's clear that you know there was this clip from Jimmy Kimmel that surfaced around her being on Jimmy Kimmel and sort of not answering the question of whether she had an NDA or did not and then Jimmy Kimmel sort of like went through it and ultimately got to the point of getting her to admit if you didn't have an NDA you could acknowledge that you didn't have an NDA couldn't you and she said oh Jimmy you're so smart so we know for the most part that Stormy Daniels does have an NDA and that's not a question it's something that's pretty much been established but the subpoena that you talked about Katie that's the Lynch pin that's the key that's going to allow her to get on to stand and to talk although let's be let's be really honest and clear the prosecution's utility around Daniel's testimony when you put it in the context of everything that we've heard is not as great as you would think it's not she's not someone who is a quote unquote essential witness for the prosecution in the sense of establishing what is needed to be established around Donald Trump's guilt or innocence what you are talking about with Donald Trump is that he made these uh hush money payments and basically falsified business records to conceal the hush money payments so that he can influence the election stormmy Daniels Karen McDougall their testimony add some color to the actual story itself but given the witnesses that we've heard so far that have explained the scheme that have introduced the evidence and that have connected the paperwork Stormy Daniels uh testimony is kind of sort of icing on the cake as opposed to being the heart of what the prosecution wants to tell the jury so for that color that you're talking about we are gonna have Adam Reese he is with us he's our as I said producer extraordinaire from MSNBC and NBC he's been in the courtroom he's the one who's going to be able to tell us what was going on with Donald Trump Adam um I wanted to ask you you know that big I was saying that recorded conversation secretly recorded by Michael Cohen between him and Donald Trump about making that payment Trump saying paid in cash Cohen saying no no I mean we know that Trump throughout the day almost every day is slumping in his chair with his eyes closed and again I'm not gonna say he's sing that he is but did you see moments of Interest where Trump looked like he was more engaged and listening and if so when because does it look like he was concerned in any capacity with the evidence that was getting in front of that jury absolutely and to that point at that particular moment that was a real Smoking Gun when um Mr Doss from the Manhattan DA's office brought up various emails and texts he scrubbed Michael Cohen's two phones and this came out this phone conversation we've all heard it a million times Michael Cohen and Donald Trump speaking in Don Trump's office at Trump Tower speaking about the hush money payment and uh Mr Trump was very interested in this moment he was looking up um when the transcripts uh from these conversations came up it was really the first time I saw him actually looking at the monitor with the transcripts looking closely looking at that monitor um I can bring up another moment earlier um in the morning when we were discussing the gag orders and the prosecutor was saying you know Mr Trump is really um he knows what he's doing he's making these comments and it is interfering with the trial and when Todd blanche's defense attorney got up judge Maran said you know no one's asking him to go out and go up to these cameras he's doing that on his own and Todd blanch said I actually agree with you uh judge and Donald Trump literally the first time I saw him turned around looked at Todd blanch and just shook his head he couldn't believe that he had said that um so he was a bit more involved he is still dozing I shouldn't say dozing off he's closing his eyes we don't know what he's doing at those moments but he's certainly closing His Eyes Adam after that after that exchange with blanch and judge meran we've known that Todd blanch fumbled the ball pretty badly last week with the other gag ordered hearing we saw what the ruling came in earlier this week did you see any other kind of heated kind of energy between Trump and blanch I mean Trump is notoriously not getting along with his Council and gets angry when they're losing or when something goes a foul of what Trump wants we've seen those reports and I I I must say um they seem to be getting along fine they're constantly chatting blanch is constantly chuckling at what Donald Trump is saying they're having Constant Contact back and forth Whispering with each other um but in terms of the gag order I do think blanch did better this time it appears that judge Maran will be a little more amable uh there are four um citations four gag order um violations I think there were two for Michael Cohen one for the jury and one for pecker uh when Donald Trump went to um a construction site here in Manhattan at 50th uh and Park Avenue where the new JP Morgan building is is going up and he spoke to construction workers and then there was a Q&A after that and he um he was asked about pcker in his testimony and he said pecker is a good guy judge Maran seems a little more amable um that he won't um punish Trump for that one but we'll have to see he did not rule yet yes so let's bring in Adam parameno who is a political analyst who's worked um with Hillary Clinton and other big Democratic campaigns Adam I want to ask you about that because I want to St on the gag order for a second here a lot of the complaints that are coming out about an unfair Justice application of a standard here Trump otherwise should be in jail for violating the gag order multiple times a lot of us including me believing that if it was me or some other kind of Joe or Jane citizen involved they would be in jail by now having violated the gag order but other people are saying it's actually good that Maran doesn't put Trump in jail because he'll use it as political Capital to not only fundraise but to campaign on it to make it seem like this is more of a quotequote Witch Hunt your thoughts on whether or not ran should continue the path of just a fine and not actually put him in jail I think I think Maran is treading very lightly uh the prosecutors haven't asked for jail just yet and um Trump H has lightened up on the attacks on the Witnesses on Cohen and stormmy but blanch made some very powerful arguments today that that Michael Cohen and Stormy Daniels continue to attack him um the newspapers are attacking him Michael Cohen is now on Tik Tock um and and so I think the Judge seemed um like he he was giving that some serious consideration and that that Trump is running for the office of presidency once again and that he should be allowed to make comments um but we're gonna have to see how he rules on these four violations yeah and sorry for that uh confusing traffic here of me asking this Adam parameno political analyst uh running a lot of Democratic campaigns and and working very tightly with Hillary B Clinton on her campaigns Adam my question to you is whether or not Donald Trump should go to jail for violating the gag orders or whether Mara should stay the course and not give him some political currency to fundraise some more or to kind of further butress Trump's false claims that this is a Witch Hunt um thanks for having me and always nice to be with two Adams uh you know I think that look many of us uh that are partisan and less objective uh would love to see him go to jail and uh get the same treatment that um just about anybody else would with that said I think that a number of individuals that are authoritative experts such as yourselves on the legal front have talked uh uh in including a former Supreme Court Justice in New York State uh giving him the judge a rating of an A+ um it seems to me that like he's he's going about this methodically carefully and the best that he can um and you know there's a number of things that have come up um in this you know uh testimony I think one of them was talking about Michael Cohen and photo shoots and uh it'll be interesting to see when others are on the stand what comes out of that because that photo shoot my understanding was actually um Michael's daughter uh raising money for St judees under the Eric Trump Foundation um so I think there's a lot more color and context to find out with that said I think the Judge has done a a great job um to date and I think that the news that came out in court today were they that the Trump was submitting these potential posts shows that he is indeed scared of doing jail time despite him saying it would be his honor to go so we're gonna have a viewer question that's gonna come in now um we're waiting for that viewer question can I just add one thing yeah Molly go ahead while I'm waiting for the view to come in I I don't I think that the whole idea that Trump should not be held accountable because he might make something of it is such a like fallacy and we have for so long heard like we can't you know Trump can't be held responsible he can't be impeached he can't be removed he can't be you know because of his people and he's really ridden that a lot and and the truth is like do I think I don't think Maran is going to put him in jail because I think he's too careful and I think that it would just be too much of a headache for him but I do think that that is sort of a fallacy the and that we are all sort of you know like the reality is either the law is the law or it's not I don't disagree I mean my personal opinion I think that if the legal standard is met and I said this earlier today on MSNBC if the DA's office wasn't intending on pursuing the remedies of a motion for contempt they certainly should have filed it in the first place and anyone else would be in jail by now and so for those of you in the chat that are saying you should put them in jail I think I said earlier today they should put them in the poke and he should be in the Pokey for a little while and it won't be Hokey Pokey Charles I want to go back to you on this recorded conversation that is a Smoking Gun that Adam Reese talked about Donald Trump perking up in court listening and looking at the monitor when this transcript was read and the conversation that was recorded was played Charles my question for you is this I'm only going to read like two sentences of it Cohen saying I need to open up a company for the transfer of all of that info regarding our friend David that being David pecker you know so that I'm I'm G to do that right away I've actually come up and I've spoken Trump give it to me and it's unintelligible and then Cohen says this Charles and I've spoken to Alan weisselberg about how to set the whole thing up with and then Trump says so what do we got to pay for this 150 Cohen says funding yes um and it's all that stuff I'm gonna stop now I mean Charles do you need Alan weiselberg who's now going to Rikers and hanging out for his perjury charge the second time around for perjury do you need him to finish painting this picture is it enough that you've got Cohen who's going to take the stand imminently um and and we'll get to the question that was there earlier uh by our our great viewer about Hope picks but but from Jessica but Charles do you really need Alan wiber here would it be worth it for the DA's office to drag him in or the fact that he's doing time for perjury just makes him a worthless witness uh I don't know that it makes him a worthless witness but in a case like this we have a recording and then you have another witness who was privy to that conversation or part of that conversation who's going to add context I think that that's enough I think that you have documents I think you have this recording I think you have the witness who's in the conversation who can give enough context around everything that is actually being heard on the tape like that that's enough such that weiselberg the other half of it the other side of it becomes less and less significant uh because of everything else that you have that you can clearly put in front of the jury without the hassle of dealing with the w witness who's currently incarcerated for perjury and and and now you don't have and here's the other thing Katie you've already got one witness who's going to jail for lying on the stand you don't want to necessarily have to bring in another one in white and that's Michael Cohen he's done jail time for that you don't want to bring in a second witness who's also currently go in jail for lying on the stand and now have to sort of Do The credibility dance with both of them when you have the videotape there's I I'm sorry you have when you have the actual recording so there's no need for weisselberg and and extending that and then also sort of creating more and more of a space where as a prosecution you have to explain or figure out why they should the jury should believe you know your Witnesses when you've added yet another witness with significant credibility issues yeah listen I think dirty birds of a feather flock together but that's just my two cents on this we're gonna go back to that question from Jessica and what we're going to do guys is um those of you that are joining us Welcome to our YouTube live stream breaking down day 10 also look at the bigger picture of this Trump trial and what's been going on as we've been week three put your questions in the chat we're going to go fast guys so for my guests and my panel side are here let's consider this a lightning round I'm gonna raise questions from the viewers I'm going to go to each of you and answer quickly please so that we can get to as many questions as possible Jessica uh Adam parameno I'm gonna go to you all eyes are in Hope right I say that a lot of time all eyes are in Hope hick when can we expect hope pix to testify I mean Adam we know hope pix is on the witness list for the prosecution do you I know you don't have to hold you to a date on this Adam but do you think that there's a logical place where you would stick hopix in terms of her testifying you said Park amango yeah Paro sorry my bad I no no I I think with hope look it's a it's a great question um I don't know the answer but what I will say is I think she's been awfully quiet for somebody who was um very pivotal in every single one of his movements and um pieces of his schedule and Communications every single day for years and years and years so I imagine uh there's a lot there and often when folks are quiet they're quiet for a reason gotcha next viewer question are we gonna get one up in the uh all already we're gonna get it Ah that's a good question it's gonna go to Molly Molly let's do this one the question is can Trump and I'm gonna do an attribution in a second when I pull it up right now who's it from guys Anita great question Molly can Trump be prohibited from going on social media this stuff tals a little bit with this idea that he's still a presidential candidate at this point uh probably not I mean he could I mean they could he could do the judge could do that they already doing it anyway though in some way right isn't that gag order in some way limiting him in some way on social but it's so narrow the gag order I mean that's the other thing it's like you can't you can you can defame right the judge you just can't go after his daughter and you can't go after Alvin Bragg's family or the jurors or the Witnesses I mean it's so narrow and you know he always says like this is my first amendment right Like Your First Amendment right to malign the judge in your criminal trials daughter I mean so I I do think it's pretty narrow I think you could do more the I ultimately the problem is you know look he is this is like organized crime stuff right that you intimidate the witnesses this is I'm sure you guys have have seen or worked on Trials where this kind of thing has happened so that's part of what's Happening Here this is not about free expression and it's not even about running for office we got another viewer question that's coming in from and I'm waiting for it to pop up on my screen guys so I'm sorry about that from Gody doy why hasn't Trump been charged with contempt you know that's a good question for you Charles Coleman I was going to go to you anyway doy our viewer saying why hasn't Trump been charged with contempt so so Charles really quickly let's actually do a little bit of a deep dive legally on this which is why I love doing these live streams right so there hasn't been the crime of contempt alleged via a grand jury or otherwise against Donald Trump right now it's just been the allegations of the violation of a court order which judge mchan has found he has violated nine times over so your thoughts about why we actually haven't seen the charge of contempt against Donald Trump so far that's do right so and you rais a good point to for people to sort of understand the process in order for you to be charged with contempt you have to actually violate something that has been you know you violate something that the court has either ordered or that was a normal sort of functioning of the court and then the prosecutor's office would go forward and decide to issue formal charges and move forward with a prosecution of that this is taking place because pursuant to a court order Donald Trump has violated the order and in that way the DA's office has moved that he would be found in contempt and the judge has in fact said that you have violated the order in these particular ways Alvin Bragg's office has what's called prosecutorial discretion and prosecutorial discretion is ultimately when they decide to bring whatever charges for whatever reasons part of what will sort of make a decision for a prosecutor as to whether you do or do not bring particular charges is what is the utility of actually doing this in at a particular time or for a particular defendant and with judge marshan already imposing the penalties that he has for the violations of the gag order it doesn't necessarily make a ton of sense for Alvin Bragg's office to do because they're likely not going to get any penalties ultimately higher than what it is that Donald Trump is currently facing from Judge marshan and what he's decided so it's not really judicially expedient for Alvin Bragg's office to try and indict him on Criminal contempt charges because they're not going to get any more bang for that buck than they are from the actual decisions that have been levied and the penalties that have been levied by judge marshan so in a lot of ways it's just you know Dy who submitted the question which I think is a very good question in a lot of ways it's really just a matter of Alvin Bragg allowing sort of time to do what it does while still continuing to put the pressure on Judge marshan to make sure that he keeps Donald Trump in a space that is accountable gotcha so we actually have Joyce Vance joining us now Joyce is kindly joining us from Chicago of all places where the hashtag sisters-in-law podcast is doing a live podcast but she's been willing and able to join our special YouTube live stream for those of you tuning in continue to drop your questions into the chat so we can get to them but Joyce I have a specific question for you our brilliant legal mind that you are entered into evidence today two written denials signed off by Stormy Daniels denying that she had received hush money payment from Donald Trump or that she had had and I want to make sure I get this right like a romantic interaction with Donald Trump we'll just leave it kind of hanging there a little bit Joyce do you think that those denials by stormmy Daniels in any way impacts the prosecution's case today so you know the defense have been trading pretty heavily on this in advance of trial with Donald Trump even retreating one of the denials on his website this evidence came in about as well as it could have for the prosecution today with stormmy Daniels former lawyer explaining that what he was doing in essence here was writing something as tightly as he could so that stormmy Daniels could sign it without lying but he pointed out for instance that they had isolated the fact that the relationship between Stormy Daniels and Donald Trump was in no way romantic so that when they wrote that language into this statement it made it possible for her to sign it without lying the jury you know juries are smart juries can use their common sense I'm sure that they got this and we'll hear about it a lot from the prosecution and closing argument because this is the phase of the case where prosecutors somebody on that team is running a list of the most important pieces of testimony that they elicit so that they can Hammer them home and closing argument this will be on that list gotcha and so I guess Molly my question for is going to be this and again put your questions guys into the chat so we can answer them and I'll have the panelists answer them very quickly so we can get to as many questions as we can so Molly at this point we're moving really quickly although it seems to a lot of us including me that the trial is moving slowly and you think about the progression of the prosecution's case they've now gone through Keith Davidson right the lawyer I mean if you think about the chronology they're hitting all the high points now they're getting they have the AUD record secretly recorded conversation into evidence right we do know there's some big name Mark key witnesses that still need to go and yet we're also considering the fact that maybe you don't really need the full impact of the Michael cohens the stermy Daniels Etc there's still that link though to the campaign part of this do you think so far that there's been too much of an emphasis on the salacious component of it we heard things at Keith Davidson where you investigated for you know looking extort possibly extorting Hulk Hogan I mean things like that we heard about Lindsay loen being in rehab I mean does it feel like it veered off a little too much or do you think that the the prosecution staying on the straight and arrow right now well the defense really wants to muddy the waters right and and remember this is very sleazy stuff this is not what happens at the New York Times or Vanity Fair or the Washington Post which is why and you know I wrote about this this idea that Trump uh accuses the mainstream media of doing what he does so this is sleazy stuff and uh I think the defense wants you to wants the jury to think that all of this sleaziness actually means the case itself as bad and and it's not and what we've seen is that we've seen these very good solid non-emotional Witnesses and they presented testimony in a very methodical way and so we haven't needed the players and we've been able to have sort of the outside players though David pcker is really the lynchpin of this whole thing so I do think it's been really good and I think that a lot of us breathed a huge sigh of relief when we saw what a good job they were doing I mean the judge is organized and and careful and does not want to have a mistrial right you see he's he's being really careful about what he lets in and and the remember he took out a juror because the juror had been arrested earlier you know I feel like there's a lot of attention to detail there and he's being really careful to make sure that Donald Trump has a fair shot and is not able to say you know I mean he's OB VI L going to lie and he's going to say that but that the case is really Beyond reproach so I think it's been really good and I think that again the case has not been about Michael Cohen even though you know you've had other people cooperate this evidence which I think has been really useful so we still have these main characters but it almost doesn't matter because we've seen the people behind the scenes who set them up and and I think it would be unusual for the defense not to try to s these Witnesses especially Keith Davidson because he comes from such a salacious World hey Joyce we've been taking viewers questions and there is a new one that just got popped into our chat and that's from Rachel Rachel thanks for your question uh aanat Michael aanat is in jail but will he testify you know Joyce before you answer that let me just add on to Rachel's question literally while Keith Davidson is testifying excuse me D Mr D is testifying about the conversation that was recorded Joyce Michael aanat tweeting from prison no less saying the following Keith Davidson is lying after I confronted her with her own text messages Daniels admitted to me in early 2019 that she and Davidson had extorted Trump in October 2016 it was a Shakedown this is one of the many reasons I fired her as a client in February of 2019 I mean that is a doozy Joyce in and of itself but answer please Joyce quickly Rachel's question aanad is in jail will he testify and then Joyce quickly address this going on with the fact that Avan keeps on tweeting from prison which blows my mind I didn't realize we had that luxury in oural you know I there I think that um the warden um where he is incarcerated might want to think about what's going on because look this is really inappropriate to have someone tweeting about the evidence during trial this is something that a good lawyer would not do because they would be an officer of the court and they would but he's not a lawyer anymore right Joyce so well that's the point right Michael avanatti no longer a lawyer in prison for for decades um and Rachel your question is a good one because avanatti has said he's willing to testify Trump has suggested um that he might Testify the question is will the defense lawyers believe that this will Aid them in creating Reasonable Doubt in the mind mind of one or more jurors look it's important to remember what these charges are and what these charges aren't because a trial isn't just about telling a jury a good story a trial is about technical elements of proof and here that means the District Attorney's office has to convince jurors Beyond a reasonable doubt that false business records were created and that that was done to Aid the commission or conceal the commission of another crime here we're focusing right now on campaign Finance s issues it may be that there are tax issues that evolve as the case moves forward but that's the core of this case now what can Michael alanina do he's a showman he's bored he's sitting in federal prison and something that I learned as a federal prosecutor is everyone who's sitting in federal prison would like to have an excuse to get out for a little while so that's probably motivating um a lot of what we see going on here as a hard and fast calculation he could do as much damage to the defense as he could do good and so do Donald Trump's lawyers bring him in will the Bureau of Prisons be willing to facilitate that on short notice they usually require a little bit of um lead time to put someone on the air US Marshall service for transportation but I think we don't know like we don't know whether Donald Trump will even put on a case in in many trials you see the defense lawyers make their motion to dismiss at the close of the government's case and then they say we don't believe the government has met its burden of proof we have no obligation to put on any evidence um and they will in their closing argument make that plea to the jury you know it's about whether the government has met its burden of proof just not sure Avan has much to add I don't I don't know if anyone else disagrees with me but I don't think I would put him on if I was the defense councel so we have another question that's coming from one of our viewers and as I'm waiting for it to come on up onto our screen um I so just to explain to you guys at home or wherever you are that that are tuning in I have a little bit of a of a stagger delay on my end so I'm just waiting for it to be able to come up right now Katie I was just going to add on the on the aanat piece when he was on Ari melbour I think one of the things that I thought was sort of interesting was and obviously we can assume why but he declined to to answer the question of whether or not he had been in uh in touch with the Trump um team and Donald Trump so he sort of left that hanging out there which uh leads us to we are and it's kind of not surprising there's a a little bit of a show going on here so the one thing the one thing I will say about a potential alanti appearance is you said that and Joyce talked about the fact that he could do as much harm to the defenses he could potentially to prosecution that is true and I do agree with that I also think and I think that he is the definition of a wild card I think that some of it will end up being how the of the prosecution's case plays itself out in terms of what you know the defense thinks they're looking at but I would say that because of the paperwor being as solid as it is and making the connections that it does part of the defensive strategy is going to be confusion and distraction and so throwing someone like avanatti in the mix ultimately plays to what it is that they need because they don't have strong facts to work with and so I think that's the one sort of window opportunity that exists for an aanati appearance on the stand because remember folks all you need is one and that's all they're gunning for and so you know and avanatti getss on the stand does a halfway decent job and then he sort of just mucks things up even further and then that's something that the defense takes as a win for themselves yeah chaos confusion mind that go ahead Adam oh I was just gonna say chaos and confusion and and conspiracy theories are often used to to cover up criminal conspiracies and to me you know I say this as someone who was a longtime friend of his it feels like there's more of a a retribution and payback piece here um given the fact that he authored the uh the case for indicting a sitting president in the New York Times yeah it doesn't escape anybody so Charles Coleman has to leave so we want to thank Charles for being with us and for His Brilliant insight as always Molly I'm going to turn to you quickly with the question that's on our screen from sioban sioban says was there a pre-trial motion about cameras in the courtroom well I can tell you that there wasn't but Molly I want to stick on this because Andrew Weissman was in court today we're gonna place a really quick sound from him and then I'm gon ask you a question on the other side so everybody take a quick listen to this you know he seemed very impassive uh you know you couldn't get a really good look from where I was uh because the camera is very focused on the witness stand on the exhibits and on the defense lawyer one of the things I think people should understand is that this is very much like trials that go on day in and day out many of the trials that I used to do whether civil or criminal it's a very controlled courtroom there no histrionics uh that was true even with respect to the gag order arguments um in many ways the my big take-home looking at this is it's really a shame that the public cannot either be um seeing this you know in by through video or having at least the audio to just understand how normal this is and how this is really what you want in a system of justice so you're stuck with people like me reporting on this you know afterwards um but it really is a quite normal scene inside the courtroom I mean I mean Molly to Siobhan's question about whether or not there should be even TVs or or video coming out of the courtroom there's only so much that we can do from inside the courtroom there's only so much that we can explain I Can't Describe with accuracy what I think as especially as a former trial lawyer having tried dozens if not more of these types of cases criminal and civil how insulting it is to the jury to see the criminal defendant slumped in their chair with their eyes closed and yet I wonder if Trump knew that cameras were going to be in the courtroom that he would pretend to be more alert maybe he would be more expressive so in a way doesn't it just continue to actually be helpful that we don't have cameras my vote is always cameras by the way let me be very clear for all of our viewers turning in but I mean maybe in a way it's good because then you don't maybe maybe you don't see Trump trying to kind of ham it up for the cameras Oh that's Molly I'm sorry my bad oh hi I Disappeared for a minute that was really weird um yes thank you um so look I agree and like today I was like I wish I could go and watch this trial at I mean one of the great things I think I should take a moment here to talk about how great C-SPAN is if you want to watch things in the senate or the house uh or the president giving a speech C-SPAN is there providing that coverage and that's an amazing resource to all of us which is why I use it all the time and love it so much but the point is yeah I think there should be cameras in the courtroom but the this is the this is the is this this is the New York criminal it is yeah it's the it's the court yeah so Shaban to your question it's the court system they don't do it like for example I cover Fulton County extensively that's my beat and they got audio video on YouTube as you all know because we are watching it you know in real time when it happens so I'm very grateful um for some small miracles from Judge Scott McAfee and his decision to do that in Fulton County we're bringing in Hugo LEL um political investigations reporter for the guardian I say he is spear on all things Trump legal and Trump political Hugo if you're joining us now share with us some of your thoughts that you've heard from Trump World because you are super tied in and dialed in tell us what Trump World thinks about the fact that now the jury has heard the secretly recorded conversation between Cohen and Trump basically finalizing with concreteness the conspiracy to pay off Karen McDougall Alan weiselberg being aware and that there was this whole setup there between Micha Cohen and weisselberg in terms of how to paper this deal yeah it was the best way to illustrate this is based on how many texts I got from people uh connected to Trump's legal team and it started pretty heavily in the morning when Trump's uh lawyers scored a couple of points on Keith Davidson on the cross and then when we moved into the afternoon session and particularly around the time that the tape got cleed played the text dried up uh and I think that was pretty indicative of how Trump World thought the day played out I think they think they started strong and then by the time they got to the tape which as you kind of say you know solidified the conspiracy here when Cohen is effectively apprising Trump that you know I'm gonna go set up this shell company so I can take care of the hush money payments that that we needed to deal with um I mean he basically says it out loud and I think at that Point uh Trump's team realized that uh it was probably time to wrap up for them as well yeah and Hugo you also were in the courtroom today you Adam Reese and others Hugo you've been there almost every day following this trial any suggestion that there was a different level of energy that went into today I mean Keith Davidson again having another day of testimony there's been a chopper block kind of flow to this there was no court yesterday teith davson had to return to the stand do you think it seems like the jury is paying attention and I know they've got notepads um I know and I've seen you know they've been taking notes furiously but do you feel like they're still following a law some of this is very technical some of it is a little bit dry um it's tiring right to be sitting there but in chair for hours on end knowing that this case is still going it is tiring and trial is always tiring but I think today was pretty explosive and I think everyone in tuning Trump actually was pretty attuned to the testimony at at at all the big moments um you know if you just kind of run through the day chronologically when Keith Davidson you know testified uh on on the cross that he would never characterize the payments like the one like $130,000 as hush money but he would instead quot it consideration for a settlement agreement you know Trump's lawyers found that particularly interesting uh and they were whispering to Trump among other things that they thought this was an opening from what I understand according to kind of people from with how this went down that they that was something that they could pull the prosecution up on because they can try and make the case to the jury that look you know if even Keith Davidson who part broke of this deal is calling it you know consideration of settlement agreement that sounds very legales and you know what well you know the 130,000 that was being paid to K was for a lawyer it's all for legal stuff it's all legal legal legal legal and maybe they could you know find an opening that way and then by the time as we said you got to the afternoon and when with the tape you know I think I I think things really really changed but it is quite jarring still to hear audio played in the courtroom and it certainly changes up the pace of things and I think it was kind of engaging and interesting for different reasons you know when you hear Cohen's voice kind of Scrat it's kind of Scratchy on the audio uh in the courtroom it is quite engaging in a different way yes so we're gonna have to say goodbye to our good friend Molly Jong fast I want to thank you for being with us since the beginning those of you that are tuning in or have been following along we're grateful for you Molly for your voice so thanks for joining us for your first time on our YouTube live stream Joyce I want to go back to you I know again that you are giving us your time and I'm very grateful I I kind of wanted to go back to you Joyce about attorney client privilege and the reason why I'm bringing it up is that avanatti question that was a great one will he testify does the attorney client privilege survive Joyce aanat is in prison stormmy you know that's not her lawyer anymore con quote but could avanatti even testify about conversations he had with Stormy Daniels so the attorney client privilege survives and it belongs to the client so you raise a really interesting question Katie and if Stormy Daniels wanted to assert the privilege then there would be some form of a hearing or an inquiry in front of the judge and it's very likely that they would have to go through the questions line by line to determine what did and what didn't invoke attorney client privilege so just more messy legal stuff you know to the point that we've been making along the lines here and the point of that sound you played from an trials aren't always sexy there's a lot of technical lawyering that goes into it I think you and I have both tried a lot of cases we tend to take a lot of that for granted but these are the little hearings that start every morning before the jury comes in and testimony is taken and it's really slowing this trial down um a fair bit at this point yes so we're still taking viewer questions we have one from toer and again when I throw this to our panel guys answer briefly as you can so we can get to as many questions as possible for my viewers tomr tomr has a great question I'm gonna throw this to Adam Reese because Adam again you've been in that courtroom every single day following this trial and even outside of the courtroom you are following all things Trump legal tomr wants to know um when this trial is going to end I guess Adam I will break that question down a little bit so toor I'm Taking Liberties with your question I hope you forgive me Adam do we have any idea um I know that we had a list of prosecution witnesses we haven't really made a dent in it I know that much guys Adam any idea when you think the prosecution will wrap up its case in Chief I I think we're we're actually moving kind of quickly um surprisingly enough and we're in the third week technically of the trial um we could get to hopix very soon and then I think next week um we'll move along we'll get to stormmy Daniels at some point we'll get to Michael Cohen at some point we'll still have some more um experts from the Manhattan District attorney's office sort of to go over some documents and emails to tie up some loose ends at the very end I don't think the prosecution wants to end on Michael Cohen but in answer to your question I would think you know in two not next week but towards the end of NE the following week we could get to Michael Cohen and sort of start wrapping up I'd say in two weeks to three weeks time um the prosecution case could be over and then will Donald Trump testify I I I I sort of get the feeling that he won't there will be one expert that they're going to try to bring um to testify um but I think we're looking at two to three weeks okay and so then we have a question from Melody Hugo quickly Melody's question is when should we expect a ruling from Judge Maron for even today's latest contempt hearing just to remind all of you at the beginning of day 10 which was today judge Maran conducting the second contempt hearing for four alleged violations of the gag order by Donald Trump the prosecution putting on his case the defense basically saying there's been no violations um in fact the gag order shouldn't apply to people like Michael Cohen and Stormy Daniels because they quote unquote don't need the protection any indication Hugo from Judge Bashon when we should get a ruling from him I mean there's no concrete um date I mean he didn't rule From the Bench today uh but it could come as soon as tomorrow I don't think that's unreason if you think about how quickly judge Maran turn around the first 10 alleged instances which he which he ruled on you know he's only got a rule on four here and it sounds like his Mind Is Made Up on Trump attacking the jury as a whole he he seems to think that that was a violation so his mind seems to be made up there and as for Trump attacking Cohen in terms of you know responding to Cohen he also seemed to have his mind made up somewhat there as well so it could just be as quick as tomorrow just as long as it takes for him to basically write a formal order I suppose we got another great question coming in from Devin Devon your question's a great one I'm gonna toss this to Joyce Devin's question Joyce is the following Ken Donald Trump I love this question actually Devon this is a good one Joyce you're gonna love this one too my friend can Donald Trump accept a plea deal at any point during the course of this trial great question Devon yeah it's a great question and the answer is only if there's an offer on the table right if there's an offer from the DA's office Trump is free to take it within the terms of that deal but I think your question is getting at something a little bit deeper which is could Trump just go ahead and decide he wants to plead guilty I think that's unlikely but if he did the judge would permit him to go in and plead without any deal with the government but also knowing that that would leave the government free to argue for any penalty that they wanted to ask for that's much risky year for a defendant you do see it happen sometimes it's much more common that there's a deal that's been negotiated that's acceptable to both parties and I think it's very unlikely we'll see that happen here Joyce I'm G to stay with you for one hot second before I go to the next question which came in from MJ Joyce could Donald Trump plead up to the court though right I mean even if the prosecution doesn't make an offer there's guidelines that deal with sentencing I guess the biggest concern for Donald Trump would be pleading guilty to 34 felonies Joyce I I guess maybe I won't he could still plead up to the court right but I guess my question is what is the likelihood of the misdemeanors a lot of people have been chatting about maybe the jury comes back with just the misdemeanors could Donald Trump say I want to plead to the misdemeanors only right he can't do that without the prosecution's agreement so that would have to be a negotiated deal where the prosecution offered him you know three four five misdemeanors in exchange for a guilty plea look prosecutors like that certain and it's not uncommon to see a plea where prosecutors give up something to get the deal I don't think we're going to see that here the DA's office wants their felony convictions yeah so MJ viewer said when can we expect Stormy Daniels to testify MJ I'm gonna take this one and say we don't know Adam ree um sometimes we get some insight Adam and I and others um in the media about maybe when people are going to be testifying when not we do know that stormmy Daniels is on the prosecution witness list um I gu maybe when stormmy Daniels walks in the door or walks into the courthouse we'll know but NJ we don't know actually when uh Adam parkco I have this question for you from Blake our viewers do you think we're gonna see Melania and I think this is such a great question Blake and this is the reason why you know Adam parameno we saw Eric Trump that's the first family member of Donald Trump that we've seen go to court with him and I want to talk about this with you Adam because your political analysis background we've seen Boris epin we've seen Susan WS uh you know former disantis buddy who's been running Trump's campaign in Florida and and and at large are we ever gonna see Melania or any other members of the Trump family come in support of Donald Trump I mean it's a great question I don't know if I would have started with one of the kids who was just part of another uh civil case yeah uh in terms of the business um I think that that you know there's always a uh counter to Conventional wisdom or strian effect so you know if Melania shows up in court there's a good chance that some jurors may want to do her a favor and put him away um so I have no idea what's going to happen but um she doesn't seem to be making very many appearances even at Mar Lago Katie could I just add something oh yeah Adam you give all of that inside track can I just think unfortunately for Mr Trump Milani is not coming but stormmy is stormy weather is what we heard even from President Biden wink wink that was not any Ty that on that point too you know the more he keeps his eyes closed and then the more something happens and his eyes are open like stormy comes in and his eyes are open the whole time it's gonna it's gonna say a lot you know I mean he can ignore stuff as much as he wants but when he's paying attention you know it's going to be interesting to see what exactly he's paying attention to yeah and Hugo I want to go to you because again you are dialed into all things Trump I mentioned borish Epstein who just by the way is it Epstein or Epstein I'm always Epstein like Einstein is how he how he says it wait I want you to repeat that Hugo so our viewers heard that what does Boris say Boris says it's Epstein like Einstein which is his refrain nothing against Boris but Boris just got indicted in the state of Arizona for get indicted for a his efforts to overturn election subversion his election subers subversion efforts in 2020 uh so I don't know about that but but but Hugo do you think or have you heard from your connections to Trump World whether or not there was any perceived positive impact from Eric Trump sitting behind his father on Tuesday in the front row again we've never seen any family members but it does seem kind of reactive though right Hugo media chatting about the fact that there's no family personal members there to support Donald Trump and then suddenly poof out the ether Eric Trump walks in with his dad yeah there was some suggestion inside Trump World that Eric you know showed up and he was there to provide some some moral support and um to kind of keep Trump engaged and I think you know anyone would like that support any criminal defendant would like some support from F from family so I'm not totally surprised that Eric showed up there have been a rotating cast of characters sitting in the first row of pews behind Trump who's sitting at defense table um in the last few weeks you know we've had Boris Epstein like you said today we had Eric Trump the other day we had Susie Wilds the campaign Chief the day previous and it is worth noting that the entire Trump team is technically in New York uh all of his campaign AIDS are here they're staying downtown they're not staying at Trump Tower they are they're in a separate hotel but they are all here and they are kind of all keep keeping working with him and so there was always this idea that they should have a rotating cast of people go into the courtroom and kind of show the big guy support I guess maybe Eric drew the short STW the other day yeah and so you know Joyce let's let's talk about your experience right because you and I as trial lawyers um and we've seen though that jurors I want to emphasize this right jurors look at everything so for those of you turning into this live stream um we have these great panelists and guests that have joined us with their time for which I'm so grateful including the great Joyce fans who's in Chicago for a hashtag sisterin-law live podcast if you don't listen you better listen to her podcast hashtag sisters-in-law but Joyce jurors look at everything I've tried cases where jurors at the end found my defendant guilty but they'll come up and they'll talk about oh well you know that lawyer over there didn't polish his shoes or oh hey really liked your your dress that you wore the other day I mean it's kind of amazing what they pick up on are they noticing something as obvious as the no Melania the no Dawn Jr the no you know um what was the other one there's another one oh Tiffany uh or the other one Ivana Ivanka like do do you think they're actually perceiving this lack and and is it actually helping Donald Trump like do people feel badly for him you think if they're on the jury I'm I don't but I mean I'd ask you know I think this is something that I have never seen before in a trial the absence of family yeah every defendant who goes to trial you know we used to call it the bride side and the groom side right that's what how prosecutors would view it you would walk into the courtroom and you would see all the cops on one side and the family of the defendant on the other and I mean this is the time to bring in all of your third cousins your Auntie's husband um a couple of friendly neighbors you want the jury to see that people care about this defendant and believe in this defendant and for a former president of the United States to be on trial on this particular topic without his wife in the courtroom I think that sends the jury a message now look the judge is going to direct them to decide the case based on the evidence and the law um and not on anything else but jurors are human they will have to make credibility determinations about Witnesses if your wife doesn't believe you enough to not be in the courtroom with you it's not a good look and this question now goes to Adam Reese this is from Stacy Stacy's asking whether or not Adam Reese do we have a known published list of Defense Witnesses I think I have it right here ah Adam re look at Adam at work for those of you on our live stream Bradley Smith he's a former commissioner of the Federal Election Commission um so that would be as far as we know the one witness um other than Donald Trump himself if he were to decide to testify um and then there is the question of whether or not judge Maran will allow that witness to testify but but I suspect uh he would and I assume that FC commissioner is a former Republican appointee yeah well it's just can I just jump in there on on that because that's actually quite interesting you know we had that moment today when Emil B Trump's lawyer tried to interject and kind of sneak into the trial this notion that the feds did not prosecute uh this case at kind of the federal level um for kind of campaign Finance violations and mam kind of shut that down and sustain the objective from the da side and I actually wonder if if that kind of witnesses is going down a similar route this is kind of Trump trying to backd Door uh kind of evidence into the trial which masan kind of previously eliminated in in motion eliminate pre-trial yeah and I want to stick on this quickly with our panelist guys I'm going to go one by one very quickly we'll call it lightning round round robin one question very quick answer Adam Reese I'll start with you will Donald Trump testify your thoughts yes or no I really sorry no one answer I've gone back and forth on this um his his um his people say you know you you can't keep him down he wants to speak his mind he feels very strongly he wants to be heard um and then there's always the question you know he there were two egene trials the first one he was very upset that Joe takapa didn't allow him to testify the second time he testified for about less than a minute um it's the question of will this legal team be forceful enough in telling him it is not in your best interest to testify and I'm thinking that they will be successful so he will not testify Joyce Vance has to leave us quickly Joyce your answer yes or no Donald Trump going to testify only if his lawyers can't keep him off the witness stand well that's an answer Joyce Vance we're gonna say goodbye to you and thank you and good luck this evening with your live podcast ladies and gentlemen follow hashtag sisters-in-law and follow them on that podcast Adam parameno Donald Trump testifying or no if he's awake I think there's a good chance he would I have to laugh I don't understand how someone could be so cranky who sleeps so much but you know yeah Hugo quick the answer please very quickly Donald Trump testify or not and if you have Insight Hugo that comes from Trump World let me know I I actually agree with um ad Adam ree on this I think um his lawyers will be successful in keeping him off and I think at the end of the day what the kind of deciding factor is is he will listen to what Todd tells him uh and I think depending on what happens out this outcome of this trial Todd may or may not be uh at the bottom of the barrel but I think up until the end of this trial he will listen to Todd and Todd is expected to tell him to not testify yeah you know what guys I gotta tell you listen I mean I I think a lot of people are giving Todd blanch a little too much credit here because if Todd and Susan neckolas and Emil bovet were so effective then why is he still posting the BS that he posts on social which leads to the violations of the gag order but that's well I will say I will say one thing and I will say one thing coming out of court today um Trump did Gaggle with the uh with the pool camp in the hallway and he did get asked about Keith Davidson's testimony and Trump for the first time replied I can't answer that because I'm being gagged so it will be interesting whoever whoever is last to testify though before he has the opportunity to take the stand because if someone rils him up enough they might not be able to stop him listen that's a really good point from Adam Park Ando Melody's got a good question Melody thank you tuning in our viewers drop those questions in the chat ladies and gentlemen Melody if it's a hung jury will it be retried um so Melody I'll take this one quickly uh I'm gonna say yes if there's a hung jury will Alvin Bragg retry the case the answer is going to be yes we actually just saw that happen yesterday for those of you that are following the legal news Harvey Weinstein's conviction overturned by a New York appeals court coming back Manhattan DA's office Alvin brag announcing yesterday in court that they plan on retrying him I know it's a different case obviously but I do think if you there's a line from the wire for those of you that are wire fans um about Omar um he says if you aim for the king you best not miss and that's my paraphrase right the ktie Fang spin on that same thing here I don't think Alvin Bragg's gonna you know tuck his tail and slink away if there's a hung jury and it also depends on what the hung jury is for um sometimes we find out Melody after the fact what the split was on the vote if there's a hung jury sometimes we don't but especially if it's a close one then you're definitely gonna see a retry on this case I could if I could just add I was in the courtroom yesterday for Weinstein it's the same Manhattan da pursuing both cases and they said this case is just as strong in 2024 as it was in 2020 so um they're they're going forward they may not have both women to testify against Harvey um but I suspect if for some reason there's a hung jury in the Trump case they will uh pursue it again um it's a tough call um they're already taking a lot of heat from so many so many sides suggesting um this type of a case has never been pursued before uh in this manner and to to go through it again would be a pretty big deal for them but um we'll have to see yeah and I'll just add my two cents to what Adam just said so in this instance though Melody um the the kind of good news is as a prosecutor you want to win right you want to get your conviction I mean nobody wants to lose but a jury is really not a loss and I know some people may perceive it as that but a hung jury is exactly what it sounds like the jury cannot reach a verdict now I want to remind everybody too that's tuning in on this live stream there's 34 counts ladies and gentlemen so the jury is gonna evaluate each and every count and I want to emphasize this because we don't talk about it a lot on TV um but there's a 34C count indictment friends and the jury could come back on one or all none or all five and all sometimes we talk about maybe the jury coming back on the counts that just deal with Donald Trump and his personal account reimbursing Michael Cohen um it's really kind of up to whether or not this ends up being a lesser includeds of maybe the jury coming back down the middle with maybe just the 34 misdem meters but with a hung jury if you're retrying the case as the prosecution you know what's going to be coming down the pipeline again you know what your case is you see maybe where your potential Achilles heals were during that first try of the case or trial of the case and you improve on it so if you're a criminal defendant you may think that you won maybe the temporary battle and not the war if you get a hung jury but it doesn't mean that Alvin brag doesn't come out guns of Blazing the second time around fully prepared I mean Hugo I wantan to I want to go to you quickly has there been any conversation in Trump World about the idea that maybe Trump is found guilty of just the misdemeanors and whether or not he thinks that's going to be a loss in any way to him yeah there has there's been discussion about that and there's also been discussion about hungery as well in fact as far as as what we we're reporting um first on just the misdemeanors I think if Trump is convicted on just the misdemeanors he will take that as a win I think if he can avoid the Fones that's really what they're gunning for uh you know it hasn't gone into particular detail at least I have not heard in particular detail you know that the different breakdowns you know for instance if he's just convicted on the Chey sign but maybe not The Ledger entries for instance right because the 34 counts include both the the falsification of Records on the bo but also the checks themselves so stuff like that on the hung jury count there is some hope and there's always some hope I guess among the pendant that if there's a hung jury maybe the DA's office won't retry it and the case they always like to site is the mcdonal case which is not really an Apples to Apples case but it involves Virginia governor Bob mcdonell who's who was um convicted on uh on on kind of white collar crime charges and then it went to scotus it was overturned um but it was a different kind of case but in that case in particular the justice department at the federal level did not move to retry mcdono and so they look at that as their test case and they think well you know maybe we can get off and so there's been that discussion as well but it's all very fluent yeah so you know Adam parameno I want to kind of stay on this a little bit I mean do you think from a political standpoint that if Trump is found guilty of the misdemeanors and I want to remind our our viewers right now the misdemeanor is just the falsification of the business records which I think we haven't heard any real defense on this I I I was going to make a little Katie sidebar on social about how Rona graph and this kind of maybe escaped some of your uh some of your attention a little bit because it kind of escaped mine and then I thought about her testimony ragraph admitted on the stand a few days ago she's the longtime assistant to Donald Trump 34 years she worked for the Trump organization she said that Donald Trump would sign stuff and not really be paying attention to stuff and or he wouldn't actually be involved in that process and I'm kind of wondering if she's trying to set the table for a defense that the falsification of the business records went went on without him knowing as in Trump wasn't aware of that but parameno do you think that that's a win or a loss if the jury would to come back on just the misdemeanors of just straight falsification of the business records well I think sometimes too if someone is suggesting that someone's not typically involved in something it really kind of highlights uh and underscores when they are involved in something like if they're playing a role in something with with Cohen so it could have the opposite effect um but I I look I after the Mueller investigation I promised myself that my expectations would always be zero so that if something happened I would be pleasantly surprised um and I think it was said on this show already today that more could be added right like a cont so I I would like to see um you know Justice Prevail here whatever that is um but I you know we we talked about having anina earlier you know he had a case in New York and he was Tried by his fellow peers and you know you can have as much Charisma as you think you do and that doesn't mean anything if you've committed a crime so I do have a lot of Hope in this jury to to convict him don't forget how they how they talked about how Frugal he is as well so he was really keeping an eye on you know any funds you know leaving Trump Tower and so there's the argument against what Rona said you you know that he I I do think she also said that if it was a significant amount of money that would be a different story he he would be more alert to those kinds of checks yeah and you know I'm gonna get to uh Maria your question right now why isn't the jury sequestered the jury was already difficult to impanel although it went a lot faster than a lot of us expected it only took four days to get that jury a lot of us thought that the jury would take a couple of weeks to get but sequestering the jury would have been a lot more difficult to be able to un panel the jury consider the fact that this jury would be not with their family in any way or you know they'd have to be living in a hotel for multiple weeks I mean that was part of the consideration I also think that judge Mara having this gag order in place to protect the jury whether or not you think it's been effective or not with Trump so far I think that was part of the analysis as well as to why there was no sequestering of the jury and that is it's not that easy to sequester the jury it's very difficult but I mean some of us think as a gut reaction it would be safer and better um but in this instance so far the jury has remained intact thankfully we haven't actually had to go into the alternates um and just to remind to all of you guys tuning in when it comes time to deliberations the alternates do not participate in any of the deliberations they are thanked for their service when the jury proper goes into the jury room and the alternates we say goodbye to them and they go about their merry way um and so that is going to be something that we're going to see we're actually going to start wrapping these up I want to say thank you to Adam Ree as always my friend you are a font of information we're grateful for you Adam parameno political analyst one of the most brilliant political strategists out there and Hugo LEL from the guardian my friend thank you so much for joining us and to all of you we appreciate you we know it takes time out of your day to join us we appreciate your questions always please tune in when we're doing our YouTube live streams if you have any suggestions on other ideas or topics that you want to be able to see let us know but we're going to keep on doing these we're going to break down certain days of testimony we're going to to bring you the voices that you want to hear from and to get the analysis that you want and that you deserve so thank you all for joining us for our second YouTube live stream this was day 10 of trump on trial and we'll see you soon e for

Channel: MSNBC

Views: 228,135

Keywords: MSNBC, MSNBC latest, Politics, News

Id: AyHDpSIEgOs

Length: 77min 10sec (4630 seconds)

Published: Fri May 03 2024