Watch Alex Wagner Tonight Highlights: May 3

today's three-hour testimony by former Trump campaign press secretary hope Hicks appeared at times to be useful sort of maybe for both the defense and the prosecution when asked today about Trump's reaction to the release of the Access Hollywood tape hick seemed to butress Trump's Case by testifying that he was concerned about how it would be viewed by his wife Melania that's part of the defense's argument Trump was killing these damaging stories about him not to help his campaign but because he was concerned about his family finding out but Hicks also cast out on the defense's argument that Michael Cohen made the hush money payments to Stormy Daniels out of the kindness of Cohen's heart Hicks told the court today I didn't know Michael to be an especially charitable person or selfless person Hicks also recounted a conversation she had with Trump as president when the stormy Daniel Scandal eventually surfaced in 2018 saying I think Mr Trump's opinion was it was better to be dealing with it in 2018 than it would have been to have had that Story come out before the 2016 election joining me now are Jer Jeremy sand former assistant district attorney in the Manhattan DA's Office trial Division and Suzanne Craig New York Times investigative reporter focused on the finances and taxes of Donald Trump what a beat um thank you both for being here today I I got to ask and let me go to you first on this Jeremy the idea that Trump was trying to cover up these stories to protect Melania or his family didn't want the papers delivered to his family doorstep lest she read about his affairs with other women that was somewhat established by hicks's testimony but she also was pretty clear that everything that was done in this period was through the lens of the campaign that this was decidedly a move that would benefit Trump's candidacy does it matter if he also had personal reasons for doing it well the court can't take judicial notice that he's had multiple Affairs before and his wife knew that walking into the marriage but they're not mutually exclusive you could genuinely care about your spouse or your children and want to protect them but you can also want to protect the campaign and make sure you get elected as best you can so I think it really doesn't hold much water sure you can want to be careful about your family and love your family but that's not what this is about but as long as you're doing it for expressly political or campaign purposes it's still a violation absolutely this it's not like you have some a defense self-defense claim here you did it for this reason but you can also do it for that reason they're not mutually exclusive what did you I mean what's your top line on Hick's testimony today Suzanne um I thought the end was really P the end of the uh the government's examination was very powerful when she put us in the room with that conversation she had with Donald Trump when he was president about the payment first of all we according to her testimony it establishes he knew about the payment which is very important because he's been saying it was for legal fees he's now acknowledging the $130,000 payment to stormmy daniels's hush money according to the testimony today I thought that was that was really powerful and then also he talks about how well better come out now than in 2016 right the piece that we just read right I think both of those were very important and I also thought she was an effective witness because she wasn't we we've seen a lot of Scoundrels as we come through come come through the court and we will see more um she's not that she was a trusted adviser um and she I think you don't know why she broke down crying there was a maybe a lottery reasons that went into that but it happened right after that testimony that was so powerful and then she transitions again right into her biography about him how close she was and how close she was when I and I think she was over she was I don't think she was overcome with emotion and it and it just showed to the jury how how just conflicted she was but how close they were and I think that just made her a very credible witness I'm sure the jury it wasn't lost on anybody in the court room well the yeah I mean I I would assume that that is Mana for the prosecution right this makes her look like a a trusted V an adviser who is not out there to get Donald Trump and and is in the line with David pecker who's out on the stand saying we're still good friends and does so and you know basically makes the prosecution's case for them while saying he's still friends with Donald Trump absolutely and keep in mind she she's there under subpoena she's not there because she wants to be there and she has a real relationship with this man forget what anyone sees on the outside side whether there was a caring tender close professional personal relationship there was something really real and substantive there so she's there telling her story very credible empathetic and when you're crying not that I tell my witnesses to specifically cry but you sort of do sometimes you hint like let your emotions come out it's okay we all have emotions that absolutely plays well sure or not with a jury I thought the other important thing about hopix was she said she was paying for her own Council we've seen a lot of witnesses come in the Trump organiz ation is paying for their legal fees she came in on her own her own law spoke with an independent voice quite obviously it felt you talk you mentioned the word scoundrel so I'm GNA go right to Michael Cohen because when you say the word scoundrel I feel like a little Michael Cohen alarm goes off uh there were there were various efforts made to impune Cohen's character or at least his role in the campaign um Hicks establishes that Michael Cohen is not a charitable individual right that he's not necessarily making uh taking out a home equity loan and paying off stormmy Daniels because he's a good guy this is the exchange uh this is from Emil bie the defense Mr Cohen wasn't a part of the campaign right no sorry this is about Mr Cohen's role in the campaign Miss Hicks no he would try and insert himself at certain moments but he wasn't supposed to be on the campaign in any official capacity Mr bie he went rogue at times fair to say Hicks yes I used to say that he liked to call himself a fixer or Mr Fixit and it was only because he first broke it this is sorry to the second part of it which is he is not a charitable charitable person which would seem to be butress the prosecutions argument uh but he is also not part of the campaign does that undermine the prosecution's argument not that much because you do not have to have a paid role or be an actual adviser to be involved in a campaign there's a long-standing relationship between the parties he's he's he's his attorney meaning he's Trump's attorney so there's an incentive for him to help the president because that incentive is the president wanted him to help and there may be an end game for but he's not giving up that kind of dollars I don't know how much he earns a year but post tax dollars of $130,000 to help the former president or pardon me to helped Trump at the time to get elected so I think it's a silly non-common sense argument I don't think it holds water as I said before it's more of a cender here it just doesn't work what did you think of I mean a lot of this is they're building a kind of house for Michael Cohen to walk into um with strong Rafters do you feel like I mean you've been at this this hearing Sue it it feels like there there's been enough testimony that you know whatever Michael Cohen says can exist on its own and there's still a pretty Rock Solid case of pro prosecutions made right I want to step back when I answer that question because I think sometimes we're like what what's going on here and what's this trial about it is about first of all a conspiracy and then the falsification of business records so right now we're in the conspiracy phase and that we're building that conspiracy that there was a cover up and we've seen a lot of witnesses come forward and we're moving I think today we got a little sliver of it when we talked about the payment and Donald Trump knew about it we're going to be moving into the falsification of business records so I think what they're doing is exactly what you said they're trying to have a number of witnesses that will support what Michael Cohen is saying and I have to say I have been there every day the most powerful witness so far I believe hope I hope pix was very powerful but David pecker he was talking to Trump at every turn of this and it was very powerful he put him right in the center of it they had an agree agreement to embellish stories that were bad about Donald Trump's Rivals toon Carson that story deserved a pullit sir we heard today in court but also the catch and kill scheme and David pecker knew about the cover up he was in the middle of arranging those deals with the women and and all of that is so important because he was aware of it and testified to it you have a a real principal whose reputation has not been impune giving up the goods it's butress by Trump World insiders I got to ask you because the prosecution has lined up so much data if you will in their favor do you think there is any chance Trump takes a stand at this point I would think that he would not take the stand and and I don't think it's despite the fact that the prosecution is doing well and I think they're getting doubles triples singles even home runs here and there there's still a big lift ahead it's still a big lift this is not just a misdemeanor and a misdemeanor would be a loss here and in fact not to get too far ahead of ourselves if if they I would even think the prosecution would want the jury to consider a lesser included misdemeanor it's really all or nothing we're down we're getting ahead of ourselves here but but you know there still is there that intent to commit another crime what is that other crime and you have to as you said before what is that conspiracy to commit that other crime in terms of the election that's not so easy I'm falsifying records I'm hiding things I'm doing hush money that's not the crime that's not the crime so there's still a lot more to go but those pieces are coming into play absolutely and H pick and and David pcker are are definitely closer to the home runs well day 11 my friends Craig burning that Midnight Oil uh Jeremy Lance to Craig it's great to see you guys thanks for your time this Friday night joining me now is Michael rothfeld investigative reporter for the New York Times and co-author of the fixers the Bottom Feeders crooked lawyers gossip mongers and porn stars who created the 45th president Michael was part of the Wall Street Journal reporting team that won the Pulitzer Prize in 2019 for its investigation of Trump's hush money payments and he was name checked several times at trial today Michael thank you for being here let me first just just you know we learned today in court that it was your correspondence that first informed hope Hicks about Karen McDougall and the and the Scandal that had yet to break open I'll just read a little a little bit of the transcript from court today this is uh Matthew Colangelo from the prosecution when did you first hear the name Karen McDougall Hicks November 4th 2016 Colangelo and in what context did you first hear the name Karen McDougall Hicks I received an inquiry from a reporter at the Wall Street Journal asking questions about her and the national Inquirer Colangelo who is the reporter you heard from Hicks Michael rothfeld can you take us back to that moment Michael and and tell us about what it was like well we had been chasing uh this story actually for about a month at the journal we had gotten a tip that um there was a lawyer who was uh paying off women for Trump before the election and we had narrowed it down actually to two women Karen McDougall and Stormy Daniels and eventually were able to obtain the contract that Karen McDougall had with uh the parent company of the national inquire which led to the story that you were just talking about and and the election was rapidly approaching so obviously we were trying to move very quickly to get the story before the the election we knew stormmy Daniels was also talking about selling her story or telling her story but we hadn't nailed that down at that point but we did nail down the Karen McDougall story did you have a sense of how directly connected Donald Trump was to the McDougall payments uh well we knew that David pecker who ran the national inquire and American Media had a long relationship with Trump uh going back a couple of decades so we had a sense that this was done to protect Trump I mean this was the first time um anyone had reported the term catch and kill um in this context that that pecker had caught the story for Trump and killed it we did not have a direct connection at that time to Trump we suspected it which is why you know in the days uh before that email that I sent to Hope Hicks we were talking to the National Inquirer primarily because they had paid Karen McDougall $150,000 we wanted to establish that and we suspected strongly that strump uh Trump was was connected to it but you know the evidence for that would emerge slowly um you know in the in the months and the years after we reported that story in the end in in your report uh hope Hicks is is is noted as a trump campaign spokesperson who said of the agreement with Miss McDougall we have no knowledge of any of this hick said that Miss mcdougall's claim of an affair with Mr Trump was totally untrue um in retrospect what do you make of that I guess I'll call it mendacity but I mean maybe she didn't even realize she was lying because again H piix was clearly not that familiar with what happened here yeah I don't I don't know that hope knew about it I mean obviously she was speaking for the campaign um I I I believe that she didn't um know about it I mean I don't 100% know but she says that she did not uh Donald Trump as we now know uh did have uh correspondence with David pecker and Michael Cohen about paying off Karen McDougall uh over the summer before she was paid in August so you know clearly she was misled and um you know I I I suspected that that that probably was not true that Donald Trump did not know about it but you know we that that was the campaign's response and and they they denied it they also denied he had had an uh you know any relationship with stormmy Daniels throughout this the prosecution seems repeatedly trying to make this point that the campaign took this was very concerned about these allegations regardless of whether they true were true or not and that indeed this sort of panic that it caused internally helps explain why the payments were in turn later made to Stormy Daniels can you give me a sense as a reporter on the other side what you imagined or knew the reaction to be inside Trump World well I I I could imagine they were uh there was a lot going on at that time I mean there was a Hillary Hillary Clinton email scandal going on I mean we were just a few days out from the election um and uh you know we know now from the inside and from the emails and the texts and calls that hope pix had with Michael Cohen that they were very concerned about what impact the Karen mcdouall story would have um it it did not have an earth shattering effect uh with all the other noise but what really in that period of time informed the Stormy Daniels deal was the Access Hollywood tape because that and that had happened even before we reported the Karen McDougall story around October 7th so we reported that in early November but as of when the Access Hollywood tape was reported that jump started uh the Trump uh Michael Cohen negotiations with Stormy Daniels to pay her and they they actually negotiated the deal um a few days after the Access Hollywood tape uh came out and and and she had been trying to to sell that way earlier in the campaign but was unable to until that point Michael Cohen then delayed paying and in fact didn't do it until the very end of October right we know there were a lot of efforts to quash stories that could be harmful to the campaign and what was interesting to me today is that hope hick testified that um she talked to she reached out to Jared Kushner when she found out the journal was working on this story um Jared Kushner has a relationship with rert Murdoch to see if Kushner could entreat Murdoch to buy some time were you aware of any efforts being made to slow the publication of your story no definitely not um and and I mean I think she tested ified that uh Kushner had told her he he wasn't going to do that and she should just respond but I can tell you that we never at the journal um had any interference from rert Murdoch or or anyone below him when we were going to publish those stories um we were able to get them in I mean even the stormy Daniel story which was more sensitive because it was the the president's lawyer he was now the president and you know involving a porn star it was more direct Tai um you know the journal published those stories uh we published that on the front page there was absolutely no no qualms yeah and it became being right we wanted to be right I mean exact was the main thing well and it is obvious obviously you got it done because it's part of the prosecutions argument today in the first criminal trial of Donald Trump um Michael rothfeld a sort of central cast member in in today's testimony today really appreciate your time and thoughts um the perspective is invaluable thanks sir thanks Alex you know how the fake news Works um they leave out some or most of the facts of a story the truth of the story is that this was a working dog uh and it was not a puppy it was a dog that was uh extremely dangerous I'm a dog lover I've trained dogs for years I I've been around hundreds of them of course and uh so this was a tough situation dogs that have this kind of a problem that have been to training for months they are extremely dangerous and a responsible owner does what they need to do and what this what the law will allow what's the old adage if you're explaining why you shot your family pet you're losing especially when you're a nationally recognized politician explaining why you took a 14-month-old dog named Cricket out to a gravel pit and executed her at Point Blank Range South Dakota governor Christy gnome's unfathomable decision to include this anecdote in her upcoming Memoir has sparked outrage and also cap mated the party and not in a good way former president Trump is reportedly disgusted by the story Rolling Stone reports today that Trump can't stop talking about it and he he has repeatedly brought up the incident with his AIDS today Colorado's Jefferson County Republicans announced they have canceled Governor gnome's fundraiser tomorrow supposedly for safety reasons but that is not the only controversial story in this book in the very aptly titled Memoir no go going back gome writes I remember when I met with North Korean dictator Kim Jong-un I'm sure he underestimated me having no clue about my experience staring down little tyrants I'd been a children's Pastor after all the doic the Dakota Scout a local newspaper First cast out on gnome's claim here it spoke with dozens of gnomes staffer none of whom had any knowledge of the meeting with the reclusive dictator sort of the thing you would wouldn't really forget if you were a staffer or the governor and tonight the governor's team is admitting that the story is not true Christy Nome never actually met with Kim Jong-un in the book Nome also writes that she spent time in Paris and was slated to meet the French President Emanuel macron but after macron called for a ceasefire in the Israel Hamas War gnome claims I decided to cancel well the Dakota Scout was on this one too the Scout confirmed with the French president's office that macron never had a meeting scheduled with Christy Nome spokesman for gome says we've been made aware that the publisher will be addressed addressing conflated world leaders names in the book before it is released unfortunately for governor gnome both of the stories about her diplomatic achievements appear to be false but the story about shooting her own dog is most certainly true for

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Length: 20min 14sec (1214 seconds)

Published: Sat May 04 2024