HONOR, MY LIFE ON THE BENCH, WHAT WORKS, WHAT IS BROKEN AND HOW TO CHANGE IT, LADORIS CORDELL. TIM, YOU GET TO GO FIRST. YOU WERE IN THE COURTROOM TODAY. DID DONALD TRUMP SEE YOU? I KNOW HE SAW MY CLIENT -- MY COLLEAGUE LAWRENCE O'DONNELL. >> HE DIDN'T SEE ME BECAUSE I WAS IN THE OVERFLOW ROOM ACROSS THE HALL FROM HIM. ONE OF THE THINGS WE WILL SEE IN THIS TRIAL AS IT CONTINUES IS AN ACCUMULATION OF THE SAME KIND OF EVIDENCE AND SAME PEOPLE DOING THE SAME NEFARIOUS THINGS AND I THINK IT IS PLAIN ON THEIR FACE WHAT IT IS ABOUT. I DON'T THINK THERE IS MUCH DOUBT AT THIS POINT THAT THEY WERE TRYING TO PAY OFF PEOPLE TO BE QUIET. THEY WERE PAYING THEM OFF IN ORDER TO GET A FOOT UP IN THE ELECTION. I THINK THE ISSUE IS WHETHER OR NOT YOU GO FROM THIS SERIES OF MISDEMEANORS TO A FELONY AND ELECTION INTERFERENCE AND THAT IS ULTIMATELY I THINK HOW THE JURY IS GOING TO LAND ON THIS. ALONG THE WAY WE ARE GETTING THIS VERY CD TALE ABOUT THE UNDERBELLY OF POWER AND MONEY AND POLITICS IN NEW YORK CITY. >> OKAY, BUT IS THERE ANY CHANCE PEOPLE HEAR THAT AND SAY THAT IS JUST HOW NASTY NEW YORK CITY BIG BUSINESS WORKS? COULD IT LOOK LIKE THEY ARE ALL KIND OF NO GOOD GUYS, BUT NOT NECESSARILY TRUMP IS A CRIMINAL HERE. >> YES, I THINK THAT IS WHERE IT TIPS AROUND, ULTIMATELY WHAT IS THE IMPACT OF THIS CASE? I THINK IT IS SORT OF AN UNKNOWN. I THINK BACK TO THE JANUARY 6 HEARINGS WHERE PEOPLE WERE SAYING AMERICAN VOTERS HAD FORGOTTEN ABOUT JANUARY 6 AND DID NOT CARE ABOUT IT AND ONCE THE HEARINGS AND THE TAIL GOT OUT IN PUBLIC, IT MATTERED TO VOTERS AND MADE THEM THINK ABOUT WHAT THOSE EVENTS MEANT. I THINK THIS TRIAL MAY NOT END UP LEGALLY BEING CONSEQUENTIAL FOR DONALD TRUMP. IT COULD BE. I DON'T KNOW. I DO THINK EVERY DAY HE IS SITTING IN THERE AND THERE IS THIS REFERENDUM ON HOW HE RULED AS A HUSBAND AND HOW HE CONDUCTED HIMSELF AS A BUSINESSMAN AND WHAT HE WAS CAPABLE OF. I THINK AT THE END OF THE DAY THIS ELECTION IS GOING TO COME DOWN TO A SMALL SLICE OF INDEPENDENT AND MODERATE VOTERS IN SIX OR SEVEN STATES SO I THINK CARE ABOUT THIS STUFF AND I THINK VOTERS ON THE LEFT AND RIGHT ARE ALREADY DECIDED. CASES LIKE THIS ARE, I THINK, CONSEQUENTIAL FOR THAT GROUP OF PEOPLE. WHAT THEY ARE SEEING IS DONALD TRUMP IS SHABBY AND DONALD TRUMP ALLOWS A PORN START TO COME TO THE OFFICE OF TRUMP TOWER, 30 FLOORS BENEATH HIS RESIDENCE WHERE HIS WIFE WAS WITH THEIR FOUR-MONTH-OLD CHILD. THAT IS THE SAME MAN SAYING I CAN'T GET OUT OF COURT TO ATTEND MY SON'S GRADUATION. AND I THINK THEY ARE WEIGHING THAT FOR WHAT IT IS, WHICH IS THAT HE DID NOT REALLY CARE AT THE END OF THE DAY ABOUT HOW HIS WIFE FELT ABOUT THESE THINGS. HE DID IT ANYWAY AND ONCE IT CAME OUT TO THE OPEN HE TRIED VERY HARD TO BURY IT. >> NOT FROM HIS WIFE, BUT FROM THE AMERICAN VOTER. >> FROM BOTH. >> YES. DONALD TRUMP HAS EXPRESSED HE IS ANGRY. HE DOES NOT FEEL HIS DEFENSE TEAM IS AGGRESSIVE ENOUGH. HE WANTS HIS ROY COHEN, OMITTING THE FACT THAT HE WAS DISGRACED AND DISBARRED, SO IF HE WAS ALIVE TODAY HE WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO REPRESENT DONALD TRUMP. HIS TEAM WAS THE MOST AGGRESSIVE WE HAVE SEEN TODAY. YOU THINK THAT WAS A GOOD MOVE FOR THEM? >> I DIDN'T THINK THEY DID WELL TODAY. THEY MISSED THE MARK. >> DID THEY DO WELL ANY OTHER DAY? >> NO, I THINK IT IS GOING WELL FOR THE PROSECUTION. KEEP DAVIDSON IS AN IMPORTANT WITNESS AND THEY WENT AFTER HIM IN A BIG WAY. SAYING THAT HE IS AN EXTORTIONIST. I THINK IT MISSED ITS MARK BECAUSE TRUMP IS ON TRIAL FOR FALSIFICATION OF BUSINESS RECORDS AND THAT ALLEGEDLY LED TO ANOTHER CRIME, CAMPAIGN- FINANCE VIOLATIONS. BY CLAIMING HE HAS A VICTIM OF EXTORTION, IT DOES NOT HELP HIS DEFENSE. IT ISN'T MAGIC FAIRY DUST WERE YOU SPRINKLE SOME EXTORTION OVER THESE CHARGES AND THEY GO AWAY. I THINK IN THEIR ZEST TO BE AGGRESSIVE THEY DID NOT HELP THE DEFENSE VERY MUCH. >> THE LAWYER ON THE STAND, KEITH DAVIDSON, RECALLED WORRYING ON ELECTION NIGHT THAT THE HUSH MONEY SWAYED TO THE ELECTION. HE ACTUALLY TEXTED THE EXECUTIVE EDITOR OF THE INQUIRER AND SAID WHAT HAVE WE DONE? HOW CRUCIAL IS THAT POINT TO THE PROSECUTION? >> IT IS EXTREMELY CRUCIAL. THIS WHOLE TRIAL TELLS A STORY AND THE PROSECUTION HAS ITS STORY. DEFENSE HAS ITS OWN STORY. SO THE PROSECUTION'S STORY, EVERYTHING IS BUILDING ONE THING ON THE NEXT AND EVERYTHING THEY CAN GET, PARTICULARLY TEXT MESSAGES. PHONE CALLS. RECORDINGS. ALL OF THAT IS WHAT JURORS LOVE TO HEAR. SO THIS WAS JUST A CRITICAL PIECE OF THE STORY THAT IS BUILDING EACH DAY THAT THIS TRIAL GOES ON. >> TODAY THE JURY HEARD, EXCUSE ME, HEARD A RECORDING. THEY ACTUALLY HEARD THE RECORDING OF A CONVERSATION BETWEEN DONALD TRUMP AND MICHAEL: IN 2016 ABOUT THE FINANCING OF THE HUSH MONEY PAYMENT TO STORMY DANIELS. HOW IMPORTANT IS EVIDENCE LIKE THAT? >> IT IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE ONE OF CHOMSKY DEFENSES IS THAT HE KNEW NOTHING. THE DEFENSE FROM HOGAN'S HEROES. >> YOU ARE DATING YOURSELF HERE. >> I AM TURNING 53 TOMORROW. SO, WHEN YOU CAN PUT TRUMP IN THE ROOM WITH MICHAEL COHEN OR A CONVERSATION WITH COHEN AND DAVID PECKER, THAT SHOWS HE HAS THE KNOWLEDGE. THE BIGGER QUESTION TO ME IS CAN YOU PLACE TRUMP WITH THE DECISION TO FALSIFY THE BUSINESS RECORDS? THAT IS THE ONLY PIECE OF THE PUZZLE I THINK IS MISSING. THIS RECORDING IS POWERFUL BECAUSE PEOPLE LIE, BUT RECORDINGS DON'T. >> I WANT TO STAY ON THAT POINT, BECAUSE TRUMP'S LAWYERS CAN ATTACK MICHAEL COHEN ALL THEY WANT, BUT WHEN YOU'VE GOT A RECORDING LIKE THIS, YOU CAN'T REFUTE IT. COULD THESE PRIMARY SOURCES MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN THIS CASE? >> THE WITNESS FOR THE PROSECUTION TODAY WAS DONALD TRUMP. IT WAS HIS OWN VOICE. AS WE SAID YOU CAN'T REALLY REFUTE THAT AND I THINK THE MORE YOU HEAR HIS VOICE, THE MORE IT SEEMS REAL. THE MORE IT IS NOT JUST A LOT OF SLEAZY CHARACTERS YOU MAY NOT FIND REPUTABLE. THERE IS ACTUALLY A MAIN CHARACTER AND THE MAIN CHARACTER IS DONALD TRUMP. IT IS NOT SURPRISING THAT SOMEBODY CHARGED WITH A CRIME IS SURROUNDED BY PEOPLE WHO MAY NOT BE THE MOST REPUTABLE PEOPLE IN THE WORLD. THAT IS THE BANE OF EVERY PROSECUTOR TRYING TO PROVE A CASE LIKE THIS, BUT JURIES TIME AND TIME AGAIN HAVE BEEN ABLE TO MAKE THAT DISTINCTION AND UNDERSTAND WITNESSES WHO ARE CHECKERED IN THEIR OWN PAST, IT DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE NOT TELLING WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON AND THERE IS A LOT OF EVIDENCE THAT DONALD TRUMP TRIED TO MAKE SURE THE AMERICAN PUBLIC DID NOT KNOW ABOUT THIS. USE THE MONEY AND THE QUESTION BECOMES AS WE SAID, WHETHER IT BECOMES A FELONY. HOW MUCH WE CAN PROVE THE FALSIFICATION OF BUSINESSES. I THINK ON THE MAIN ACTIONS, MANY AMERICANS OF KNOWN THIS FOR SEVERAL YEARS. >> I WANT TO LISTEN TO WHAT DONALD TRUMP SAID ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL YESTERDAY ON HIS DAY OFF. >> IT IS NO CRIME. I HAVE A CROOKED JUDGE, A TOTALLY CONFLICTED JUDGE. UNFORTUNATELY IT IS A 95% OR SO DEMOCRAT AREA. OTHER THAN THAT, THINGS ARE WONDERFUL. >> FIRST, LET'S FACT CHECK FOR OUR AUDIENCE. A DEMOCRAT AREA. THE CASES TRIED IN MANHATTAN BECAUSE IT IS WHERE THE ALLEGED CRIMES WERE COMMITTED, BUT WHEN YOU WERE A JUDGE DID YOU EVER EXPERIENCE ANYTHING REMOTELY LIKE THIS FROM A DEFENDANT? >> NO, I WAS A TRIAL COURT JUDGE FOR NEARLY 20 YEARS AND NEVER, EVER HAVE I HEARD JUDGES DENIGRATED IN THIS FASHION. IT IS REALLY SAD TO ME BECAUSE THERE WERE A LOT OF PEOPLE LISTENING. THE WORLD IS LISTENING, BUT DONALD TRUMP'S FOLLOWERS ARE LISTENING TO THIS AND SOME MAY BE PERSUADED. WHY GIVE ANY RESPECT TO THE COURT SYSTEM, TO JUDGES, TO THE PROCESS, WHEN IN FACT AN INDEPENDENT JUDICIARY IS THE THIRD LEG OF A DEMOCRACY. YOU HAVE THE EXECUTIVE, THE LEGISLATIVE AND THE JUDICIARY AND HE HAS REPEATEDLY TEARING IT DOWN, CONSTANTLY. WHICH IS WHY THE GAG ORDER IS IN EFFECT, BUT THE JUDGE DID NOT APPLY IT TO HIMSELF. I'M NOT QUITE SURE WHY, BECAUSE IT IS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE JUDGE BEING THIN-SKINNED. THIS IS REALLY TEARING APART HIS ATTEMPT TO TEAR APART OUR JUDICIARY. THE GAG ORDER, THAT IS FINE. TRYING TO STOP DONALD TRUMP FROM DOING THIS, BUT REALLY EFFECTIVE BECAUSE THE PUNISHMENT, AT LEAST AS FAR AS FINES GO, DON'T MEAN A THING TO HIM. HE IS NOT BEING DETERRED AT ALL. >> JUDGE, I ALSO WANT TO SHARE WHAT TRUMP SAID TODAY WHEN HE WAS ASKED IF HE WOULD TESTIFY AND I WANT TO REMIND OUR AUDIENCE HE SAID I WANT TO TESTIFY. HE IS CHANGING HIS TUNE. WATCH THIS. >> I WOULD LOVE TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION. IT IS A VERY EASY QUESTION. THE EASIEST QUESTION SO FAR, BUT I'M NOT ALLOWED TO TESTIFY BECAUSE THIS JUDGES TOTALLY CAN ELECTED. HAS ME UNDER AN UNCONSTITUTIONAL GAG ORDER. >> NOT ALLOWED TO TESTIFY. I CANNOT EVEN BELIEVE I NEED TO ASK YOU THIS, BUT FOR THE RECORD, CAN A GAG ORDER PREVENT SOMEONE FROM TESTIFYING? JUDGE CORDELL? >> KNOW AND I THINK WHAT DONALD TRUMP HAS DONE IS USED THE WRONG WORD. HE MEANT I CAN'T TALK TO YOU ABOUT THIS AND HE IS USING THE WORD TESTIFY BECAUSE HE IS IGNORANT ABOUT THE COURT PROCESS AND I THINK UNWILLING TO REALLY LEARN WHAT THIS PROCESS IS ABOUT AND HOW THINGS ARE DONE. SO NO, OF COURSE, IF HE CHOOSES TO TESTIFY, THAT IS HIS RIGHT
