True Health is Health of Being An Interview with Sri Mooji by Luke Sniewski
(with subtitles) [Interviewer] Hi. Can I get a quick sound check? [I.] Can you introduce yourself? [Mooji] Can I introduce myself?
[laughter] [Mooji] OK. So, I believe you are having [Mooji] an interview with me, today,
about health, [M.] and I liked it because it wasn't
specifically about physical health. [M.] I'm not the most physically healthy. [M.] Everyone here's much more healthy
than me, physically. [M.] But I felt,
what was appealing about your approach, was that it was much broader. Or, in any case, you wanted to ask
someone like myself about health. I was very much attracted to that because I could speak about
what I would call 'true health', which is health of being, health of spirit, health that comes from Self-knowledge. [I.] Can you elaborate on that?
What's the difference [I.] between healthy being
and being physically healthy? [M.] This is just
my own terminology and interpretation. [M.] Do you want me to repeat the question?
[I.] No. Please go ahead. [M.] I thought you were in a sound check. [I.] You're already right into it.
[laughter] [M.] OK, you ask what's the difference between healthy living in its physical aspect and if there is another aspect of health beyond its physical connotations? For me, real health would be to be in total harmony or alignment with your inmost being. That would be health for me. Physical health plays a very important part.
It is the most popular. Even when we speak about yoga, most people, certainly in the West, would feel that yoga has more to do
with physical asanas or postures, and stretching and all of these things. But the term 'yoga' is much broader than the physical definition of yoga, the physical aspect of yoga. Yoga means,
to bring together two things into unity. So, it already starts on the premise that there are two things to be brought together. It doesn't say that
there's only one thing that appears to have become two, and then reintegrates itself
into its original oneness. Yoga has many different aspects. There are aspects of yoga, like 'Karma yoga', you might have heard of this, which primarily is about selfless activity. There is 'Jnana yoga', which is the yoga
of knowledge or perfect wisdom. This is expressed
in the form of Self-knowledge, and the emphasis is on Self-inquiry, to look into one's inner nature. There is 'Bhakti yoga', which means the yoga of devotion, surrender to the Supreme Being. And then there is the yoga that
we know, or hear of, like 'Iyengar yoga', 'Ashtanga yoga'. The yogas, which are more popular. People in the West
are more familiar with that form of yoga. But the question was about health. And in our concept, primarily in the West, yoga or health is about
our physical health and well-being. And people do a lot of exercises, and make sure that
they're taking the right kind of food. There's a lot of information available about how to live healthily
from the physical aspect of our life. But let's imagine someone
who was physically very healthy, ate well, exercised well, in the prime of their physical life, but inwardly was very depressed, or had self-destructive tendencies. Because these kinds of paradoxes are there. There are people who are physically very fit, physically very healthy,
but inwardly unhappy, very much introverted and even dark. So, I could not say that
such a person is in full health. They may be able
to do handstands on one finger, but that would not amount to health for me. Health would have to be that
someone is also fit internally. A mind that is calm, clear and wise. Someone whose way
is inwardly still, loving, open, kind. I would include these also in health. [I.] You talked about selfless acts [I.] as being a foundation of Karma yoga. [I.] When the mind
is constantly playing tricks on you, [I.] and constantly rationalising
and justifying actions, [I.] and labeling them as selfless,
but they're really selfish, [I.] how can you really determine
if something's truly selfless? [M.] It's very difficult to determine, even in one's own self, much less others, whether something is truly selfless. And 'selfless' we have to explain because some people aren't familiar
with the term selfless. It means to not be concerned,
to not be psychologically self-conscious of how you're coming across
and how well you're doing, and if you're being perceived by others,
to be kind or not. We can put that out there like this.
How can we be clear? How can we be sure that
our actions don't contain a kind of selfishness, or we have a selfish motive behind our seemingly unselfish, kind,
and compassionate gestures? I'd say, on the whole, for most human beings, and we'll come to this question more,
but I'll hint at it now, we are highly involved with our own identity. And that itself
leads to a kind of selfishness. We are so insular, so myopic. 'Myopic' meaning that
we are only self-referencing. And we are brought up, many of us, to appreciate acts of kindness, and so on. And we like to be kind ourselves. But very often, genuine kindness is rare. Meaning that someone gives without any motive, without any sense that
they want something in return. Not even a 'Thank you'! Someone who gives in the dark from the dark, just gives,
without needing to show their face. There are many people like that also. But, by far, not the majority. Most people want to be appreciated. So, when they do something that
is felt to be kind, they want people to know that it's kind. Even people who pray,
sometimes want other people see them praying, and how expressive they can pray. So this is a very, very difficult one. [I.] So, does someone have to tune in? [I.] Do they have to stop and think?
Stop and feel? [I.] How can they say,
'Wait a second, that's really selfish. [I.] I may be pretending to be nice, [I.] but I'm actually
trying to just feed my ego.' [Mooji] They know it. [M.] It's only a question
of whether you're open enough to admit it. [Mooji] I think we know. I don't know
if we give enough time to reflect upon that. Or if it matters enough for us
to stop and ponder about it. We know. If you have issues of self-importance, any kind of ego, it will be very, very difficult
to perform a selfless action. [I.] And because all of us are tainted
with at least just a little ego, [I.] if you know,
and if you force a selfless act, [I.] just because you know it is selfless,
is that healthy? [I.] Is that a good way [I.] to start the momentum
of building the process of selfless behaviour? [M.] If it starts at the place where,
let's say, it's in response to a genuine need. Suppose an elderly person,
or even a young person, collapses in the street. And then you may feel to go over,
and your reflex is to go. It may not be a reflex for some people. They may stop and think,
even though there's no threat to them at all. They may still stop. And if you have a suspicious mind,
you may think, 'Maybe somebody is faking that
they have collapsed, that when I get close, they will mug me'. It depends how much fear is in the mind also. But, let's take it another step.
It has happened before. You may respond to an obvious need for help. Say, someone has collapsed in the street,
and you go over to help them. Let's say, they are smelling of alcohol. And sometimes,
your mind may give you a lot of trouble like, 'People might think,
I'm drinking with them and they're my friend'. We have a lot of complexities about this. Then, sometimes, you genuinely
respond to a call for help, or a need to assist, and then it seems that
it was very spontaneous. And then your mind says,
'Aha, you were very good! Yes, very good! Look how many people saw you. Two or three stars in your crown today.' [I.] So, does something like that
negate the selflessness of it? [I.] Does it then become a selfish act? [Mooji] No. No.
If it has happened spontaneously, that action in itself is pure. Where people have difficulty
is in the reaction that comes from the mind, when the mind starts to give a summarisation
of what they have done. They have a lot of trouble with that. It's very, very difficult to avoid that. And some people, in the end, say,
'I don't want to do anything like this, [M.] because my mind
gives me a hard time after that'. [I.] So, I think, most people
have that post event analysis, [I.] interpretation, and summarisation. [I.] What's the best way to treat that voice?
To ignore it? [Mooji] To not listen to it as much. To recognise, to discern that
the action in itself was good. Assistance was rendered to someone.
It was appreciated. That was fine. Everything is fine about that. Don't give up
because it is the ego that attacks, but it is the ego that is attacked also. If you understand this thing,
then you can say, 'OK, mind plays these kinds of games',
and you disregard it. Don't do too much self-analysis about it,
and just get on with your life. Leave it behind! [I.] You talked briefly about fear,
you mentioned fear. [I.] Like, when helping someone in the street,
you can get these fears. [I.] I think, that's ultimately
what we're trying to get past, [I.] our own fears of failure,
fears of looking like a fool, [I.] our fears of embarrassment.
All those fears. [I.] What's the best way
to deal with those sensations and emotions [I.] as they're arising in the moment? [Mooji] I have to be upfront about it that
we can do small things. There are exercises we can do,
and they will help. [I.] Can you start with 'to deal with fear'?
Sorry about that. [Mooji] Yes. OK.
What would happen in response to a cry for help, or a situation
where assistance is deeply required? You participate in that,
or you are pulled to do this, but then fear arises inside that 'Maybe I'll be attacked
by this person who I'm trying to help.' Or 'Maybe other people might take advantage', or whatever the things the mind plays.
How to go past this? How does one deal with that? Generally, I would say, there are exercises that
can assist you to do this. There are many people who are giving
a certain kind of training like that. But I have to come straight away and say that all difficulties that we experience, whether it is a fear of rejection, or the fear of the lack of appreciation, or whether we are worthy enough, or whatever, all these,
all different shades of fears and anxieties. They come to us because we are
not actually sitting in our true place. We are living from a place
of a very wrong identity, a limited identity, actually. We live primarily in the notion of merely
being our body-mind and conditioning. That is not our true Self. It is a limited portrait of our completeness. And so, because we live
in this very narrow, limited state, then all of these
idiosyncrasies and strangenesses, they come with that state. I like to introduce that on a deeper level. What it means is that
because we don't get it right at this level, and I think, it is good that
we don't get it right at this level, because our failure at this level,
to find that complete state, stimulates an urge to go more deeply
into exploring into our nature. If our projections, if our idea of who we are in its limited portrait,
was true, we would not grow!
There has to be some aspiration. And aspiration is born
out of suffering and difficulties also. The deeper question and quest
would be a real search for completeness, which you wouldn't find
simply by having a healthy body. It's a good start, it's helpful,
but it's not enough by itself. It would have to be something internal. You'll have to go back again
to the Source of what it is that we are, and not just understand it intellectually, but to really experience that directly. From there,
things will begin to come very, very right. [I.] That's probably
the next perfect question, [I.] 'What are we? What is the Source?
What are we trying to get to?' [I.] Obviously, intellectual understanding [I.] is so much different than direct experience.
[Mooji] Yes. [Mooji] You ask,
'What are we trying to get to?' Actually, whether we are
conscious of it or not, our urge is for lasting happiness,
for peace, for harmony, actually. But not being aware of that consciously, we go in search of this
in so many different ways, externally, through relationships, through sports,
through so many different activities. And we have to go through them, and then eventually to discard them, to say,
'Well, it's not that, it's not lasting'. The lasting peace ... because it is instinct in us
to search for lasting peace, or a joy that is unbroken,
a happiness that doesn't fade. There's something,
there's a pulse inside the human spirit, not just human spirit,
but all sentient beings. A search for life, a clinging to life, and some of us intuit somehow, that life should be eternal. It has to be, at some level,
eternal or timeless or something. And this is the motivation,
this is the drive, the urge. The desire for life, in fact, is in search of something that doesn't fade. First we try through the senses, and the things that we imagine, through sport, through relationships,
and so on. And we come to see that we gain experience, but everything fades
like clouds passing in the sky. They come and go.
Everything is coming and going. At some point, the question does arise, and very often, very naturally, at some stage, if your seeking is earnest,
life brings it to you. Life arranges it for you that you will come to the next opportunity and it will be introduced to you consciously. It may happen
through some encounter with someone. It could even happen through an accident. You may just fall off your bike, and it shakes something up deeply enough to stir up some deeper questions in you. Or you may find a change
in your inner environment, the way you feel and think
is beginning to change. These steps roll on in front of you,
like that. So, at the Heart of ...
even when we experience fear in life, it stimulates a deeper yearning to go beyond fear and to find
that place of total rest within us. And most human beings aren't aware that
such a thing even exists. We have only tasted it momentarily, but unfadingly few have experienced this. [I.] What do you think, [I.] prevents people from that experience,
that Self-awareness? [I.] What prevents the light bulb
from turning on, [I.] from that moment of mindfulness, [I.] that disconnection
from the conditioned behaviour? [Mooji] We can offer
different answers for this. You ask, what it is that can help to trigger a longer lasting, if not eternal, or permanent recognition
of our highest state of being? What gets in the way of that? The consciousness that we are, temporarily,
is wearing this garment of a form. I would say, a biological suit. For a while, we are going to wear it. And in that expression of life, it will learn what it needs to learn
through this body. But it also must go through the experience of believing that it's the body,
for a while, and that it's
the conditioning or programming that happens inside that body. To then, only later,
come to a deeper realisation that that is insufficient, it is inadequate. It's not true
because these are qualities and objects that are fading and changing. And it intuitively knows that
there's something beyond this. So that search is actually being driven by a deeper,
maybe subconscious or unconscious force that drives us to not abandon seeking. Life is also seeking. What stops or prevents this switching on of the light of awareness,
of pure Self-awareness? It can't be put
in any kind of mechanical terms. I can say that
as soon as we began to function in terms of a human being and identity, and the body, and the life force, we became addicted to experiencing. We totally love experiencing.
We can't give it up. Every level, even the painful, is part of the total dynamics
of the field of experiencing, and we totally love it. And then we believe it also. The information that comes
through the senses and the mind, we get very entangled in that. And yet, the reality in us
is quite apart from that. It allows a certain amount of identification
to arise from itself, and that identification
plays as the sense 'I' inside this body. When you feel the sense 'I', because everyone refers to themself as 'I', it is the most important word
in any language, the feeling of 'I' and what it represents. Nobody gave it to you. The world and your parents may teach you
every other word, but nobody gave the word 'I' to you,
the sense 'I'. It is intuitively arising with consciousness, and its implication indicates consciousness. 'I' is consciousness! But when consciousness
is experiencing through this body, it is compelled for awhile
to identify with the body and say, 'I am the body.' Now this 'I am the body-belief'
gives rise to a second name, and that's the given name that
you take from your family. George, Michael, Luke, Mooji, or whatever,
is the second name, and that really refers more to your person. 'I' really refers to presence. Because how you know yourself, even before being taught anything else, is through your intuitive awareness
that you exist. And this 'I exist' feeling or sense in us arises as the feeling 'I am'. And that 'I am-ness', that is our being-ness,
that is our consciousness. That's what we are, actually. But that consciousness
gets transformed or converted into the notion of a person,
which is a contraction of it. It is a limitation of that. But the consciousness lives for awhile
in the notion of being a person until it is mature enough
to begin to inquire into its original nature. So, while we are
in the state of identity as a person, it is a very complex state,
a very intense state, full of friction and anxieties because it is not a stable state. But it is designed to not be stable because its very instability
provokes a search for what is stable. And this is the carrot in the life because you have to always be aspiring
in order to evolve and to mature. [I.] You've talked about experience, [I.] that we're constantly
seeking experience, [I.] and the way you describe it
makes it sound like an addiction. [I.] For lack of a better word,
I think, that's what it is. [I.] We're addicted to experience,
to this swaying. [I.] Does that consequentially mean that [I.] the way through
is painful and through suffering [I.] to avoid those addictive, behavioural,
conditioned tendencies? [M.] Pain is one of the avenues.
Suffering is one of the opportunities, whereby consciousness
begins to contemplate itself. Because pleasure by itself
does not promote introspection. Often, difficult and challenging situations trigger more reflective
and meditative qualities within ourself. I lost your question a bit. [I.] I was just asking [I.] if pain and suffering
are essential components of enlightenment? [Mooji] Pain and suffering
are essential components in life. They have to be there
because they generate and promote evolution and maturity in sentient beings. It has to be there,
but it's not the only thing that's there. Also joy and certain factors
which play in us, which are untraceable,
they just seem to be there. And they vary from body to body, they express themselves
in lesser or greater proportion. We can't really quantify or qualify
where they come from. We can just say that
if you take a group of 100 beings randomly, you'll find that
there are different states of mind and maturity towards self-knowledge, naturally. But everyone will have
a certain amount of experience, a certain amount of wisdom. Some may, for a while,
believe themselves to be wise merely because they use the mind a lot
and think a lot. But when you use the word 'wisdom', it really refers more to the knowledge
based upon experience and insight. And these are powers and abilities
within the human psyche that are not so deeply explored, especially in our Western lives, like meditation, inquiry, faith, and trust, all these aspects of human expression. [I.] What is your advice for people that [I.] need to have a healthier relationship [I.] with that inevitable
pain and suffering in life? [I.] Is there a healthy way to manage it? [I.] Is there a healthy way to deal with it? [Mooji] The healthiest way I can tell you is to become silent and empty. It's not immediately appealing to the mind because we are used
to going to get tools to fix things. So we have really lost out
on the opportunity and the guidance to become inwardly silent, empty. Because our outer coaching and conditioning does not put much value
on meditation or on stillness. We put a lot of value on time and money, but on silence and peace and Emptiness, we rarely talk about that. We're even a little bit scared about it,
even uncomfortable about it. And yet, in each one,
at some point in your day, you have to go
to this place of total Emptiness. You can say, 'Thank God for sleep',
because it is life, nature. God gives you that opportunity
for eight hours, almost as full as your waking hours, to be completely nobody
and to be completely empty of intention, of identity, of activity, of all of that! And guess what? If we have to guess.
We all love it! We love to be, for these hours,
sometimes eight hours, for some people ten hours, to be nothing and nobody,
and have no job, have no association. In your waking state
you might be a husband or an engineer, but in deep sleep you're nobody. You may have 10 children
in the waking state, but in deep sleep you have nobody.
Even 'you', you don't have! We don't go into that state screaming,
'Please don't let me go there!' No. We totally love it. We buy the best bed to ensure that
we can forget about everything! So, if we do that unconsciously,
or compelled by nature, we can also enjoy some of that state
in the waking state also. I don't mean that
you are walking around snoring. I'm saying that there is a silence in us, that is there in deep sleep,
that is also present in our waking state. This is where meditations,
and this type of guidances help human beings
to be aware of themselves as consciousness rather than merely as bodies. Not only as a body
and not only as personality, but also as consciousness. And the more we discover
this field of infinite potential in ourselves, the more ... it doesn't lead to us feeling, 'Oh! We have so much more to do!' We feel, 'I have so much more to be.
I just am.' The feeling of 'Am-ness' is the most powerful discovery
in the human kingdom. [I.] Fantastic! [I.] When you said, 'You are living a dream', [I.] what do you mean by that statement? [Mooji] I rarely utter this type of thing,
and not just publicly. I wouldn't say to someone right off the street,
'You're living a dream!' They wouldn't know what I was talking about. So, it would be very, very silly and unfair. Also, people would not comprehend
what I was talking about. Sometimes in life we joke and say,
'Ah, you're dreaming, man!' We understand it like this,
we don't go more deeply into that. But the fact is,
there's a lot of truth in that. If I say, The world is a dream, I don't mean that I'm looking at these flowers
like they are a dream. Let them be as they are. What it means that 'we are dreaming' is that we are not suffering from the world
in its natural manifestation. Things are neither good nor bad,
they just are there. That is not the world we experience though. Our experience of the world
is our psychological approach to life. Our judgements and anxieties,
visions and fears, our attachments, and so on. That is what we are experiencing. In each unit of consciousness, if you take a body to be a certain mindset, it will determine the strength
of our experiencing. If you are someone who is very, very
full of judgements towards others, then the way that you experience life is going to have a strong effect
upon how you experience your existence. And so, from the totality perspective, what you are experiencing is not true,
is not Truth. It might be true that
that is how it feels for you, but it's not Truth that
it can be relied upon. Because if something is true,
it has to be true for everyone. We are experiencing ...
It has been said before, there is a saying,
'I'm not seeing the world as it is, I'm seeing the world as I am'. So, if you are someone
who is full of psychological noise, the world you perceive will seem very noisy. If you are someone who is full of love, the world you will see,
and the way you will meet beings, will be full of love also.
The reading is not out there. Like I'm looking at my hand,
my hand is not looking at me. And when I see the hand, it's there, but where I experience it is inside myself. So, the world is shaped
through our interpretation and through our vision, our projections, our interpretations. All of this colours the way
in which we experience life. So that's why I say,
from that perspective it's not a truth. People say, 'My truth and your truth ...', but these are just very relative things. When we speak of Truth, we're talking about
something much more fundamental. Something which is consistent and unavoidable
in every single being. [Mooji] That is what we speak. [I.] What are some of the tangible effects [I.] and consequences of the journey? [I.] When you're discovering the 'I', [I.] when you finally understand that 'I',
that consciousness, [I.] what are some of the ways that
life's different? [I.] What are some of the things that change? [I.] What have we both to look forward to? [M.] Most of the change happens in you.
Because sometimes the people, when the change has occurred,
when the realisation happens in them, they say,
'Wow, the life is so fantastic, so beautiful! Ah, everything is working so well! I think of somebody and they show up.
It's amazing!' But it was always like that. It has always been like that. It's just that
now it's your turn to see it like that. But it has always been like that. But because you are new to it now, you say, 'Oh my God, it started then!' But it is timelessly like that. Also, all anxieties and such things
like depression and fears, they go. Your Heart becomes very quiet, very peaceful. You discover a happiness that
doesn't go away. You become clear. So clear inside that
you cannot come to the end of you. You know this, you don't believe this now.
You know it! I don't know how to tell you that you know it.
You just know it. If you fall in love,
you don't have to read a book about love, or read a dictionary. You know it's love. You don't need
someone else's opinion about it. We know inside that what's here
is beyond the body-mind expression. You just know it. And what will change? The way in which you relate to existence
and other beings, that will change,
if it was not already beautiful. It will become more beautiful,
more wise, more open. You'll feel more gratitude in your heart for life and for the senses,
and for everything. For the use of a mind
and the powers to discern. And it will be just incomparably beautiful. [I.] What do people need to understand? [I.] What do people need to learn
to find happiness? [Mooji] They need to, first of all, recognise that they are not merely their bodies,
nor their thoughts. They need to know this thing,
not just believe it. Maybe believe it, or maybe hear it. Sometimes you may meet someone whose presence exudes a natural conviction
and response in you. That is nothing intellectual, that is purely at a pulse,
at a Heart level inside you, and triggers a flowering
of a deeper understanding. It can happen very spontaneously,
magically, like that. But for many people, it starts in a seemingly simple,
coincidental kind of way, where you meet someone, and maybe you are given a book. You start to read, and it triggers
some reflections within yourself, and you begin to ponder on something. The next thing to happen
is that you meet someone, and it seems, 'Oh my gosh!
I was just reading about this book and it is written by you or your cousin.' It seems like
these beautiful coincidences are happening. But what is happening is that as you come more and more
towards synchronicity internally, the world begins
to reflect its harmony to you. And you begin to recognise it. And as you recognise it, you say,
'Oh my God, how is it possible? I didn't make this up,
it just happened like this.' And so, you begin to enjoy the wonder of life, the amazing spontaneity and grace and benevolence of the existence. So these are very, very attractive [Mooji] for the intelligent being. [I.] This is actually a question for myself, [I.] for people that are creative. [I.] Everyone is seeking creative expression,
everyone wants to act. [I.] But is there a way to work hard
without being addicted to it? [I.] Or what's the way
to approach work and ambition [I.] and entrepreneurial ventures
and creativity? [I.] Because I kind of
bunch all those together, in a way. [I.] Is there a way ...
How do I frame the question? [I.] Because we find peace through stillness, [I.] but yet,
we are constantly striving to create. [I.] Is there a balance? Is there a mindset? [I.] Is it action without expectation? [Mooji] I'm hoping that we,
talking like this, and those, whoever would listen, will feel a sense of openness
towards that inner journey. Even the openness is already a step. And then you start
to be pulled in by some force to bring you more closely. I'm mentioning this again
because rather than giving lots of little techniques
about how to do things, because we're very much
a 'how-to-do-species', we begin to discover, our being-ness is already containing so much, like 'everything' much. And there is nothing more creative, actually, than that Source place inside ourself. It creates all of this.
All these colours, it didn't spare. It didn't say, 'Oh! There's too much yellow!'
No! It creates all this beauty out of its silence.
It comes out of it. And yet, this is the direction to go. Because if we're going
only on the basis of being a person, and becoming famous, doing all these things, it is wrought with effort and struggle,
competitiveness and need. And it is not beautiful at that level. If you want to create,
then create something beautiful. How is something beautiful created? It's created out of beautiful being. Now, I know that, sometimes, people are experiencing
very deep and traumatic feelings. And out of this deep, traumatic,
inner environment, they produce beautiful things also. So we cannot limit it and just say, only when you're feeling beautiful
you make beautiful things. Creativity is not about making things. In fact, creativity is intelligent existence. When you meet someone,
and you meet them in spontaneity, that is highly creative, actually. When you're open, that is very creative, because you have not come with an intention. Your intention is not so fixed. You come with an openness to see what are the possibilities that may happen. This is the most exciting one! If we have the intention,
'I want to do and do and do', in a way, your room is closed. But if you come and explore
and see where it's going, you enjoy also. And in joy,
you feel a natural gratitude for life. You're praising, your work is praising, Your attitude is praising life, in fact. This is beautiful creativity. [I.] It's hard because the inspiration [I.] comes from a deep sense of intuition. [I.] It's definitely something beyond thought.
It's a feeling. [I.] But then,
society teaches us to keep chasing, [I.] keep pushing, keep pushing,
keep pushing. [I.] How do we know
whether that suffering and pain [I.] is part of the process,
or if it's me just trying to feed ...? [Mooji] It is part of a process. It can produce a certain skill, but it rarely produces brilliance. Often, the brilliance is so humble because it comes out of Emptiness. And when something comes out of Emptiness,
you can't take a claim for it. This is the amazing thing, that you come to a certain place
where you go beyond self-control. You come into total being-ness. And from there, it's like
the universe is dancing through this body. Now we'd like to be able
to bottle that and say, 'Yes, yes, this is what I want to hold,
and turn on the tap at will.' But what it shows you is that when you are
in atunement or synchronicity with the being-ness, then this is your natural day. What may be a spark for someone, is your continuous and timeless being. For someone it's only a spark,
a little spark. Because mostly,
we are living with this notion, 'Yes, yes, I do this and do and do', and then somehow a spark comes, and it's like you want
to give everything for this spark because you know it's totally effortless, and also, it is without identity. It is totally divine! It's this divine spark that
you want, isn't it? [I.] A very small percentage of this planet [I.] ever feels that divine spark.
[Mooji] Yes. [I.] Or maybe a very small percentage
would act on that divine spark? [I.] What prevents other people [I.] from answering the call,
that divine spark? [I.] Is it just fear? What is it? [Mooji] Ignorance, arrogance, too much desire, too much attachment. And being attached to your attachments. All this brings in a kind of blindness,
a kind of heaviness. You work, but you strain and struggle,
and toil and labour. Actually, that divine spark is you, but you don't know it. Every day we are experiencing, but we're not conscious of it. We're not aware of it. We only know it as a kind of blast,
like, 'Puff! Whoa!' So people say, 'What's happening?'
'I just can't say. I can't say!' How can you explain such joy or such bliss? [I.] It's a very good way of looking at it. [I.] I've actually covered
all of the basis that I wanted to cover. [I.] Do you want to add anything
for people who have never meditated, [I.] for people that are so conditioned? [Mooji] Yes. I want to show them
something simple that anyone can do. I want to show you a simple way to get back in harmony with yourself. Now, everybody feels the sense 'I', 'I am', just the feeling 'I am'. You know of your existence.
You know you exist. OK? So this feeling, 'I exist',
or the sense 'I am', when you say 'I',
that's what it really refers to. I would ask them
to just spend seven minutes or so. Just sit quietly for a little bit, and just feel the sense of being-ness. Just the sense 'I' or 'I am' is there. There is no story in it, there is no history. It's not important that
you think of yourself as a man or a woman, or a meditator. None of these things help.
Everyone can do it! Just the feeling of being-ness. Once you are aware of how simple it is,
just a feeling of being, like if you had nothing to do, nothing to become, nothing to change, nothing to fix, nothing at all, you are just here. And there's no thought
about what you are doing. That simple empty space, just be there. Just the feeling that you know you exist. It's like a quality of presence. Just stay in that feeling of presence and don't allow it to connect with any thought or intention, or any form. Just keep it by itself. Leave it there. Now, some thoughts are going to come, and some habits
to start to think about sending an email, or something like that. But if they come,
you're not to fight with them. Simply be aware of them, but just stay as the feeling 'I am'. The feeling 'I am' is just like a space. If you do anything in a space,
it doesn't stay. If I draw a face in a space, it doesn't stay. They just appear and they disappear,
but you stay only as that space, just that awareness space. In the beginning, it might be very difficult. It might feel very difficult to do,
but persist. Do seven minutes. OK? And maybe even if it feels,
'Wow! That was so tiring!' In the beginning, it can feel tiring, because you're not trying
to become something, you're trying to prevent the mind
from taking your attention away. So you just stay like this. And you do it again when you want. And gradually, you'll be able to stay, even though thoughts and noise come and say, 'My God, there's even more noise than before!' But don't give up. After a short time, you will discover
something very, very beautiful. You're going to discover
a silence in yourself, a peace, a sense of vastness. You are going to become so happy,
so, so happy. Just keep on staying in this space
whenever you want. Seven minutes minimum,
just sit there like this. You can do this
before you go to bed at night, but not when you're tired. Or, in the morning is nice. When you get up, just sit for a few minutes, and just clarify your mind,
just keep it clean. Then go about your business. Just do this and keep it going for a week,
or two weeks are good. Then you may write to me
and tell me if your life has changed or not. This will be something that
is not to do with any particular religion. Anybody can do it. The atheist can do it,
the believer can do it. The karma yogi can do it,
the jnana yogi can do it, the bhakti yogi can do it,
anybody can do it. People who know nothing about yoga,
meditation, religion, nothing at all. They can do this. It will bring you to the same place. It's the most beautiful Self-discovery. Just that. Just this nothing. No special terms, no special
impressive spiritual terminology. Just stay in the feeling of being. And when thoughts come
to take your attention, just stay, learn to ignore them. At first it's going to be very difficult. The worst are going to come
and create fears in the mind, but you only have to stay as that feeling. Then, after your seven minutes,
you get up and go about, do your thing. Then, if somebody wants to say something, maybe they write to you, Luke,
and tell you about this, what happened in their life. Because I think it will touch
on all the things we talked about today. It will touch on all those things. It will satisfy all those questions in them. [I.] Thank you.
[Mooji] Thank you so much. When you go beyond self-control ... you come into total being-ness ... and from there it's like the universe is dancing through this body. This is the full version interview
taken by Luke Sniewski for the episode 'Before I Am' which can be watched at
