Top 10 Games that Should Have Been an Email

[Music] [Music] thank you [Music] [Music] thank you [Music] [Music] good afternoon everybody I'm Tom vassel I'm Z Garcia I'm Mike delicio and this is another top 10 for you perhaps all of us in the past and our past lives that are past less green lives um we're a little green today um [Music] that's for me making it Green from the previous year ago yes yes use my shirt as a guide your shirt's probably throwing off the whole thing as well it's all it's all complete we've all been teachers yes and if there's one thing we all have in common other than being teachers is we hate meetings I don't think you guys come to the level of hatred I have towards meetings no I don't think this time I advise them with all my heart I really do and it's a problem because I need to go to them and be in them and apparently run them um one of the main reasons I'm the chairman of dick is at my church is so that I run the meetings because we're going to get them done in time we now run 20-minute meetings as opposed to the three hour meetings they were in the past I've been in teacher meetings that have gone over two hours oh man especially when any sort of consensual decision needs to be made I'm sorry there's also always that one teacher that has something to say about every topic at every meeting and you just want them to shut up okay so if you're under if you're watching this and you understand it's the phrase here if you're watching Linda this is for you yeah if you don't understand the phraseology this is I think a very American phrase yeah um but basically there's a lot of meetings that you go to and they hand you a sheet that tells you everything in the in the meeting a summary yes you then read that out loud and discuss it just in case no one understands how to read it and we say you could have just emailed it to everyone and it would have been the same this meeting could have been an email right yes so it says it all time does meaning it could have been an email so what we're talking about today are games that are just they go on too long yes like meetings go on too long right I want to be clear on mine so I picked my 10 here games are games that I either like or don't like I have a mix of that yeah but I would like them much much more if they were shorter my negative rating of the game whether it's a low rating or it's like a six or seven as opposed to a higher rating is because the length of the game is that's the main sequence some of these have a few other problems and stuff minor things sure but it's the length the length length length length we are aligned in that way I don't love all of these games although I like more than I dislike on my list and they all I feel like would be better if they were shorter that's why I didn't pick big epic games that are designed to be big epic long games right I think if there's if that's what the experience they're trying to provide is I generally I mostly have that yeah we'll see all right well I've done a different thing I've picked 10 games that I wish the theme was about emailing oh I love it or had something to do with Computing I'm gonna change my list so all of these would be very well themed in Ram ROM JavaScript or REM Linda this is for YouTube I don't even know what Linda so what did you do for your top ten same thing you guys did all right all right here we go number 10. what if this is our longest top 10 ever oh we can top ten should have been an email that we have the power to make we're trying to we're trying to preempt the comments already oh yeah yeah all right my number 10 uh I got a little seasick there for a moment my number 10 is a game that is a euro game it's a heavy Euro game but I think it would be much better if it was shorter quicker to play um and still give that same experience my number 10 is I don't think you like it tricarion have you played tricharion I hate it yeah right now does length have anything to do with that probably yeah yeah I think the lack of theme and there's a lot of problems I have a trick area I actually think it's a very thematic game uh for a Euro game tell me how that final round works again with the show what are you doing you're putting on tricks are you connecting cards and putting cubes on them or whatever both right talk to Brian Drake look he's not going to do any of mentalism unless he has two triangles that match up together all right so this is a big sprawling game right so I expect it's going to have a bit of time to play it right maybe an hour and a half maybe even two if you're playing in a higher player count this game consistently for me plays at three hours or more and it's a little too long actually it's a lot too long for the experience that I'm looking to get out of it I like it it was you know in in or near my top 100 I think within my top 100 I don't know how long it's going to stay just because it takes so long to play it that I don't play it as often as I would if it was a third shorter it's also a teach man it is a teach that is true it's it's uh it's not easy to teach but that's a you know that's mind Clash I mean these are games that you have to put in a lot in the front the front end to get the enjoyment out of it and I do think that it pays off very well it's just a bit too long for it looks like a whole lot I've never played it but that picture looked like a whole yeah well I think that it probably had some expansion stuff in it too but even the base game that there's a lot going on it's a really good game just too long to carry on all right my number 10 is at number 10. uh because it's easily fixed and in fact I often when I still would play this game would do so with a modified endgame trigger the game is DC Comics deck building game oh interesting DC Comics deck building game is a fine little deck building game I enjoy it it is just too stinking long and repetitive for what it does people who really like it don't seem to mind that in fact I had probably the last time I played this I played with a group who were Fanatics of the game and they loved just they knew it all they you know really were into it and expansions made the made their way in and out of it with some mode you can do that with and it just went on forever thankfully the end game trigger is someone flipped the table thankfully everyone died um from old age no um the deck of cards the little deck of cards that denotes the bad guys you go up against you need to go through it yeah you can just make that smaller it's very easy to yeah it's very easy but the rules as written I do not like uh the way that works out I think it's just really really outstays its welcome the last half of the game when playing by the rules I'm like let's go and the turns keep getting longer because you can do more you're having more stuff it's like I do this and this nothing I got 18 actions 52 power yeah yeah so truncating that I'm happy with this one it's interesting I hadn't I wouldn't have considered this I used to play this a lot with my oldest son and especially since even if you have enough power to take out one of those villains that is a end game trigger you don't have to you're not required to you know what I mean so you can even lengthen the game more if you want to just keep going by the way I would like to stand up now and say people who do they need to stop that's true I'm playing a game with someone and they're winning by 200 points they could end the game yes and they're like now let's keep going what's wrong with you I've already lost right yeah that's true agreed it's a good point and it's easily modifiable so I'm not it's my I don't know if that's a viable career option sorry what are you thinking I said to those people grow up to be torturers but I'm not sure it's a viable people who run meetings look Tom you have to have a varied skill set right torture can just be one of the many skills that you have you want to be flexible that's like a minor in college yeah right exactly I'm in elementary education look I only need to take one more class and I'm going to get my torture Miner I think why might as well right I like that okay interesting all right I did my top ten in um basically how much the length bothers me about and how much it changes my view of the game so okay don't take umbrage with where I put them necessarily Umbridge my number ten I'm I'm correctly pronounced my number 10 is Rosenberg game no not uve yeah but it's actually not one that people talk about as much today but in the day it was one of the most popular games out there Aura at pitora now it's a bonanza actually I like Bonanza I think it's a fine game it goes on too long yes particularly if you play more than let's say four and unfortunately the game is better with more than four yeah it plays better with more players but it just drags out a bit and you're sitting there and I think if this came out today he would probably do something to speed that up back in the day would be a work replacement game and also you would have to eat beans and feed the food how do you feed the beans yeah you'd have to eat like you'd collect sets and at the end of so many rounds you'd have to eat some of them to survive Hoover Rosenberg is a very hungry man it's a game about trading um and you have to keep the cards your hand in a specific order which is something that not many people have followed that there's very few games that have that few behind the film it does that but that's the newest that's the newest one that does that I think yeah it's just it's a cool concept but it was like my turn your turn you go around table and it after maybe playing through Pluto for two years you might go this is not so long right but I would like Bonanza if it was faster that's all my number 10 Bonanza that's a good call yep foreign gem oh hello Hidden Gem okay it's in the library and I don't think you've played it and I don't think you've played it then it can't be so hidden we don't know it's even in there it's a Hidden Gem I doubt it's ever he put it in the library no I don't know if he's even I don't even know if it's been checked out it's a good game it's a Cooperative game but it goes on far too long this is called the pronunciation it could go one of two ways and I've never really learned I'm going to say the stygian society mm-hmm it could be stigian are you sure that's still in the library I don't I'm not sure honestly it has been in the library I may have pulled it mostly because this is the Kevin Wilson game and it's a really cool Cooperative game with this very neat dice uh Cube Tower it's not a dice tower that is cool it's really cool and you drop the cubes into the top of the tower and that's how attacking kind of works and each you're you're climbing up this Tower trying to get to the very top to face off against this big bad boss the problem is is that each one of these floors is a pretty lengthy battle against some of the minions right it might be you know six to ten of these different things you've got to fight and you're having to you know use power cards and drop cubes and it's really neat mechanically but it is probably twice as long as it should be now I've found a way to get around this by being absolutely terrible at the game and so the game ends much earlier than it would if I was any good at it okay if that makes sense there's at least two of those on my list yeah I have come back to it because I'm happy if I can get to like the third floor and you're supposed to get all the way up to like the sixth floor and then fight the Baddie there um so it's neat but it's too long it is just too long and I think even if you did perfectly on every floor you're still looking at a couple hours maybe even longer so gosh yeah for a Cooperative game that's kind of silly you don't have a fair amount of Randomness to it I don't think that it should last quite that long right no I agree that's I have not played that one um we can't say if you're right or wrong that's why I put it on my list 58 likely you're right that's true if someone says a game is too long I go I usually accept yeah I don't like are you sure you're probably right yeah all right my number nine is number nine because much like my number ten you can adjust the length you can make it shorter here's the reason why it's nine and not ten most people will misjudge what they think is short ER this is Robo rally oh I was gonna you're gonna guess Rubble rally no but I was trying to think of a game of that happening but you're right Robo rally I'll say making sure okay I only use four boards that is way too long okay I guarantee you you are making it longer than you think you are in Robo rally oh I'm only gonna use three flags likely it's still too long depending on where you put those flags let's go down to two that's too long how about one thing this is that gray choice I should have put it on there but I mean I Rory said put zero Flags um I you're right though I mean this game is a very good reasonably length game but not according to the rule book I think even like they're they're you'll see this you'll be like oh that's a tutorial one I'll skip to the second one that's usually what I do when I play these games yeah no they all have to be like that all of them wow they are all too long it's really I mean and then you add more players chaos ensues which means you get pushed off course I mean having someone bump into you easily in this game just added 20 minutes to the game length I knew there was a reason why I didn't want to play this this just this game everything I hear about it makes me want I really like it but again the game is so tempting to be like here's some new boards you're like those boards look awesome here's new things you can add let's do it eight hours later yeah yeah it's just too long uh which again if you can we should approve yourself we should have used that graphic the SpongeBob graphic yeah two hours later there you go that's my number nine my number nine is based on a TV show and actually they remade what it is they remade this game as an X-Men game but the originally the originally jaunty show was Spartacus blood and Sand oh if I was not what I was thinking um I highly recommend watching it with young children do not they remade this as an X-Men game are you sure I thought this was a Sons of Anarchy game hands down they remade this as an X-Men game oh um that no one ever bought fairness whiz kids did that okay but Roy bought it you got gut that this is one of those the X-Men game came out and was out of stock and no one bought it really fast anyway this is a game about um it's based on this when I said watch your young kids just to clarify that's the opposite of kidding it is there's more blood in one TV show of this than there is in like 20 movies you can think of that's not like he makes Kill Bill look like the guy didn't use enough wood wow okay and even the board game says mature content on it yeah there's one card with one curse word oh all right well so there's a bunch of blood on even on in the arena sure but that wouldn't be M.A but the game is ranked M.A anyway so in this game you are you have your own Gladiators that you get and you send them out to Arena and it's a little bit of a boring fight in the arena the game isn't particularly good at that but it is kind of fun to get these Gladiators see them go in there bid on the ones you want and it goes on and on and on you have to like bid to get your people in the arena and you then you bet on those and you're trying to get there's a lot of take that cards in the game which I don't know again I don't mind all this stuff I do mind it when it's two plus hours yes and that's just too long this game should have been a nice streamline 45 minutes to an hour and I think it would have been a much better game I know a lot of people love this game and it has I mean definitely it's fans you know sure um I I like the idea of it a lot I like the concepts I like a lot of things in it it's just that after an hour I'm like all right and it just seems like it's the grind that's what this game has and I mean a lot of games have that but it doesn't need to be that long you're not entertained Mark says the TV show is too adult for most adults that's not particularly incorrect um uh it was on Stars if that helps at all and they were trying to like outdo HBO right my word they were trying oh you think you're hardcore which is a bummer because I the idea idea of Spartacus leading to Rebellion sure is a cool concept they were just like nah we're going to soap opera this thing to death um anyhow that's Spartacus [Music] my number eight is a game that I don't particularly like and I think it is primarily because it is way too long for the experience that it provides this is a hidden movement game guesses it could be a lot of them actually Fury what is the egregiously long hidden movement game that exists very of Dracula is Right very of Dracula wait wait too long did he miss me way too long of course he misses you every day in a hidden movement game I want to focus on the hidden movement I want to focus on some really convoluted combat system okay hold up hold on I don't want to focus okay clearly you're thinking of the theory of Dracula second edition or previous um Dracula Third Edition is a streamlined Beauty oh interesting the one that I played I've only played one version of it oh it was the Third Edition way too long here's the third here's the statement there okay there's an easy fix for this die early much like the stygian society if it makes you feel any better I wanted to die very early oh no the game was too long for what it does like come on let's get I didn't care anymore at a certain point I'm like he's in the ocean he's not in the ocean please stick a stick a stake in me I'd rather I mean I just read it should have been called like the the fear of Dracula or the cowering of Dracula because in this game he's basically running the whole time right right he's not coming after you yeah I completely get that this is a I think of it as a mood game and this game sets you you need to go in for an Ambiance right if that isn't there if you're not working towards creating Ambiance yeah absolutely it's too long there is not enough action there's not enough confrontation right it is procedural in the way sort of a detective cop show is procedural yeah and finally like someone shoots a bullet at someone in you know 50 minutes in or whatever this is like that and I get that absolutely I like that feeling in this one that's sort of like hmm But you're stroking mood be Vibe but you're right it did not make my list but I completely get it and to kiss up a little man the the I I think I have the best possible experience of this which was being taught by somebody who knows it very well oh somebody who was role-playing Dracula very well wait I played this with you yeah we played it at the mac and Chester I wasn't there though second edition um no I don't know if it was 100 so anyway but then I still think it's too long um that was second yeah yeah it just from Hit movement game I'd rather do like letters from White Chapel mind management which gives me that that the main thing I'm interested in in a hidden movement game in like 45 minutes so yeah I get it yeah I get that no no that's a valid pick Mike and I uh for one it's his number I accept it my number eight is fire and ax a Viking Saga yes I like this choice this is a decent game it's kind of a light game um mechanically this is not a uh that cover looks way more exciting than the game is yeah yeah and this is another one in that sort of not it looks way more like there's gonna be way more action than there is and there is you're sailing mostly and loading fish and yes you show up at these ports and roll dice take them over like you mark them there's a lot like there's a lot of victory points in this game this is not a Spartacus sort of themed thing um but and that system's fine that's an okay game I don't necessarily need it to be blood rage it's just too long for that you know you go through these sagas you go through the the stages in the game things on lock you can go to a farther and farther ocean which just takes more time sailing you're not you don't get faster it just takes you more turns but the game isn't necessarily changing you just you need to literally travel farther so it slows down if this would lose 30 to 45 minutes I'd be a lot happier with it it would too but I wouldn't like the other time played either yeah you're not a fan of this one yeah it just it has a few die rolls that really matter I don't like that you know dice are great sure but they better spread out like over several rules over the game this has like maybe 20 or less rolls if you roll poorly for several of them you've lost I hate it hmm but if it was 10 minutes there's very few games that they're 10 minutes and I hate them but they do exist that's a good time no fire and actually I shouldn't do it I do enjoy it um will reevaluate we'll come back keep going do anything but that basically yes fire an ax my number eight I'm where were we all right so my number eight is one of the most denounced games on Board Game Geek and I actively dislike this game as most Board Game Geek people do but only because of the length if it was a shorter game I think I wouldn't mind it can I get Facebook no I bet it's munchkin no I don't like munchkin it's phase 10. you wanted to be phase two now it's risk oh so risk and I know that this doesn't bother me as much because I played Risk Legacy which does shorten it down a lot and I like that game much much better okay and the I think risk the combat system is the combat system you have to you know I don't love the combat system but if risk took an hour I'd play it a lot more the fact is there are so many Risk games that go on forever and ever and ever sure gosh most not only did I go on forever and ever but sometimes the last 45 minutes you could be like we know who's going to win here right but there's always that slight chance somebody will come back yeah so you've got to finish it to The Bitter End yeah it does a good job of uh the immutable factors it just is not a particularly good Game it just needs a different end game doesn't it that's really kind of it yeah I like I like the idea of risk I mean I first heard about this game when I was 12 I no it was 11 or 10 I don't remember I remember hearing about it and thinking I'd never heard of it my life his arm is on a board fighting and I was like wow yeah and then we played it deep voices the 11 year old okay I was like oh other than maybe like some of the Sid sacks and games like a choir this is one of the older games that I think is just off of still feeling somewhat current right there's it still does the things that a lot of modern kind of area control games do but you're right that end game trigger it is old school keep going until someone's fully wiped out idea like keep going until someone's completely out of money in Monopoly right just this old archaic idea of how a game should wrap up yeah but like I come I come back to what you said earlier where you know I'm not picking on game like Twilight Imperium is not on my list right I'll say I don't want to play Twilight because it's too long but that's not I don't think that's a deficit of the game the game is trying to be that long there are big games Fortress America even acts as it allies I feel like those games have an arc risk doesn't have an arc risk to Arc is get in Australia somehow survive and then slowly battle your way out till the game's over and I know games go differently than that but risk is so long it's a joke it's a joke in Seinfeld it's a joke and on TV there oh we're playing this game all night long but it would be fine if it was short it'd be much better for a shorter yes well I don't think I would like Twilight Imperium if it was an hour what if it was a rolling Riot game I feel like that's a deceptive trick I don't think it's possible to have a good 4X space and I'm just kidding let's go into the next one I can't understand [Music] [Laughter] [Music] [Laughter] [Music] all right well here's where I may have painted myself into a corner a little bit maybe you'll have to you none of neither of you will be kind maybe the chat will be kind to me just to be clear we weren't planning to me of course my number seven is a game that the argument you could make is that this is trying to be a big long game but this one still drags for me too often and this is Mansions of Madness second edition um yeah I know Roy is cracking his knuckles back there I feel like most of the scenarios in this drag to me I I I I wish they were shorter if they were shorter and punchier I think I would actually like this game I'm to the point where I dislike it because I am always ready for the game to be over about 45 minutes before it is I think my problem is if I was to phrase it I would say this game does not have enough short scenarios it does not right right I don't mind that there are some that take three hours if I want to play for three hours that's there yeah but this is a scenario driven game and as they come out with more expansions more content downloadable content even right they could offer long scenarios medium and short right but there's like one and a half short scenarios right right that's the problem and maybe I haven't like a lot of Fantasy Flight games they really tend to air on the side of longer more right bigger and we'll see some Fantasy Flight game show up on my list literally from this number on yeah I I just I feel like this is one we've had some people saying that oh this is an overstays it's welcome type list and that's certainly an element of it this is one that's on the list because to me it overstays as welcome I like a lot of what it does I'm into the story for like the first hour maybe hour and a half and then I'm ready to be let's get on with it already I don't feel like I'm not with you on this one I just don't feel like there's enough happening I feel like it drags I agree with you that they should have more shorter scenarios and I wish they did and that's one of the reasons I don't play it but when I do play one of these scenarios I'm kind of on board from beginning to end it's pretty involving I'm not I'm usually I'm usually checked out and as we all know Cthulhu is one of my favorite themes and I wish there was more of it but this game does a better job at bringing Cthulhu theme to life sure than pretty much any other game well I mean being app driven and it certainly helps any other game so no I can think of it I can think of another couple against but anyway my number seven match the madness too long my number seven the game I think is too long for session but that's not even really my main issue here my main issue is leveling up progression in this game is an absolute bear oh my heaven dragon fire oh geez dragonfly oh this is the door before it the one with the what was that called shadow running fires crash run Shadow fire Rush cross what is that game called it's called but I know to the comments put us out of our misery you know what I'm talking about that game and this game which is based on that are both interesting these sort of deck building very Cooperative pretty tight math you know sort of games very high fantasy in this one when you win a game those games are not necessarily short they're not tremendously long but they're not sure talking like an hour you get like half an XP he's not kidding yeah and then you need 10 to unlock level one then you need 15 XP to unlock level two getting more you don't need five more XP you need 15 new XP okay you can sell back one to get something high it's just insane I assume they expect the people to play this like for the rest of their lives and this be the only game they ever played I just was like after the first game was like we all leveled up yeah yeah and that's absolutely what you kind of need to do unless you have a regular group this is all you play and you don't mind that incredibly slow grind otherwise just give yourself more XP so you can sticker up your boards so you can level up gain new things it is pain painfully slow the leveling up and therefore the game feels slow right every session you're like wrap this one up so I can win the like the 2xp I get even if you lose I'll get something right it doesn't say we lost why board game Adventure designers don't understand people like to level up right even if you're giving me small little level UPS give me something but I because look I love gloomhaven but I'll play a session a Gloom and I'm like oh well maybe I level up next time nope then you level up like every three or four you know dungeons but it's just it's exciting there's a reason the video games they they go up to level 100 right you know and you're like oh you leveled up again oh you leveled up again and you're like oh now what can I do and it's exciting right this was in games in video games almost all of them you level up incredibly fast at the beginning right like you finish a tutorial and they're like level two and you're like and then like you slash two goblins and they're like level three eventually like in the 60s it takes a while to go from like 60 level 62 to 63. but at that point you have a lot of other tools to mess with right at that point there's other things I'm playing with right this is not that it doesn't get any faster you know um so that's my main issue there dragon fire or Shadow Beast cross face whatever it is that one all right well mine is a crossover oh my number seven come on it's with Mike oh come on which one is it Mike um it is Fury of Dracula that's correct you both animals okay okay but here again Dracula which version that you play which Edition I've played all of them baby all right well okay no wait I don't think I played first is the fastest they call that one's Dragula Express now yeah well we'll remember that comment anyhow uh Fury of Dracula I like it and and yes that definitely the third slash fourth because of the same Edition yes um there it's faster than the second all right you played the longest one all right but even though I played the third and you haven't apparently you've forgotten um I still think this and there's a couple reasons for that one fear of Dracula has these occasional reset moments and I'm like ah because Jack was like and then we're like oh now we have no idea where he is and you're like starting the game over almost which yeah like I don't like that mechanism at all right we either catch them or we don't right um and then the game is about fighting and a fight you fight once in a while you fight maybe once in the game right and so that fight would be more exciting if it was kind of like the culmination of the game oh my gosh and if it took an hour exciting that is so tedious yeah I still like fear of Dracula I'd probably give it a six or seven I just would like it more if it was faster that's all that's what I'm saying here um I think it's a fine game it just could be sped up a bit and I think it would have been but Fantasy Flight just loves their yeah they're adding more stuff to games the whole sliding the cards with the different things yes it's it it's something that when you read a paper you're like wow that combat is a neat idea the sliding cars I need idea but it also slows the game down way down not that I feel like they never worry about game lengths okay I don't think they do does not seem to care right or token count either so how many very small tokens Can we throw in this video yeah yeah anyway theory of Dracula [Music] [Music] my number six is a hidden Trader game potentially it's a Cooperative game kind of it's a zombie game kinda dead of winter number six is dead of winter yes uh there's a lot of zombies in the game but yeah definitely a zombie game well it is but the zombies are are it's not a traditional zombie game I don't think next Mike is gonna say The Walking Dead is not a zombie show it kinda is and it's more about the people right just like this is more about the people it's more it's about as far as I remember cans of beans well there you got that too there you got that too you're still bitter about the stupid Bean yeah let the beans go no yeah okay so my beans everyone else in the world can die I'm eating these beans yeah dead of winter is a game The more I've played it the further it's kind of dropped when I when this first came out and we had a dedicated group that was into it it was so great it was also very long but it was so cool and as time has gone on I started to see cracks showing and and you know kind of the the things that were exciting are no longer exciting and the the dragginess of it is even higher accentuated and so I don't tend to play I don't can't remember the last time I played denim winter actually it still has a little bit of a soft spot in my heart because it was one of the early Hobby Games that switched on my short list yeah but it's just too long for for what it is it's too long and you're kind of doing the same thing over and over again too so there's not a lot of dynamism to the game there's not really much of an arc you're just kind of doing the same thing and then Plath hat came out with that insane expansion ridiculous we're there in a long night you could very aptly time yes next to each other and then you somehow you're you're like two camps that are yeah it I never even tried to never imagine this like no yeah is that double down on the length because you're communicating with each other right you have like two separate colonies are there still beans oh there's beans yes there's beans and there are inebriated Mall Santas you can count on that and he's only on one of the camps that's true dead of winter is my number six all right my number is so bad for someone who's new to board game coming and going what are they talking about beans beans in a knee braid and Santa Santa Claus what uh my number six is a Fantasy Flight game you already told us that it's a Cthulhu game it's too stinking long oh I better notice there's a card in there that might reset the game if I ever see that card again I'm gonna shred it but I like this game this is actually a game that has actually grown on me really it's Eldritch Horror by the way yeah yeah it's actually grown on me playing with a smaller player count playing um wait what have you played this last I don't know it's been a while but wow yeah probably the smart player account is definitely better yeah it is better because the story is decent it's got a good flavor to it again sort of a mood thing an exploration thing but the first couple of times I played this I really despised it um I was there it was just too long we were about we were maybe halfway through or two-thirds of the way through the game and pulled a card that literally says undo the last objective or whatever you completed you can do three of them for the entire game okay who thinks about it I don't get that you just sent me back an hour an hour on one card flip yeah no I might have ripped that card up yeah that's kind of like that's the FFG version of skip your next 16 turns okay no I want to put that card again insane so but other than the specific instance shorter I mean smaller player count and and sort of making it Lively with the theme and moving it along I can enjoy it it's still too long if and again FFG does not learn from this stuff if this game had come out as a follow-up to Arkham right that had given you a bigger scope and a smaller time frame what a triumphant success do you remember when it came out they said this is going to be more streamlined we're not going to have that many more expansions yes which was a bold face lie right I mean this was billed as the smaller quicker streamlined version not smaller because it was World Spanish but more streamlined yes and that's not really it they're about the same length I mean I was thinking about this on Tuesday night at the store someone came in and bought all the Mansions of Madness everything for it wow and bought several Elder Char expansions and I thought you're not doing all this at once right you need to yeah yeah Avatar is a neat game but yeah the length is kind of where I it's just I man I want to play games like these that are shorter the closest you're going to come to this I think is going to be um Elder Sign you know well no problem can be long 90 minutes two hours yeah but that's like Max Elder Char is two hours minimum usually yeah and it's the same sign is actually again with a shorter lower player count is not bad right yeah seven it can yeah which is ridiculous yeah but it's on the box I know if you play that at seven it's gonna be waiting it's gonna be four hours right yeah yeah my number six is not Fantasy Flight oh but it is plat hat like Mike's was oh okay and this is a game that I think I would have liked more and it was there was a couple other things I didn't like about the game I thought it was too dark and I thought it was a little too more random but I think the randomness would have gone away had the game been much shorter it should have been half the length and I'd be on board with it and that's Abomination oh this is a good pick yeah yeah abomination has a cool Dark theme where you are a Frankenstein of sort trying to build your own goal monster whatever and you are going around getting parts it just takes a really long time I do this and this and this and this and oh I got an arm oh I need two arms and two legs and the Torso oh my word your bones connected to the Torso bone and the Torso bug connects to the bean pan yeah yes the bean can I formed beans in it I think this game which can go to four hours if you're not careful that they had cut the time in half this game would be much more popular today it's pretty popular as it is this game still gets talked about and played we have in our library and people check it out but it's really long and I think it would have been even more popular had it just been half the length and it almost feels like as you did it like just double what I got here just the the time could have been cut posted an official shorter game variant for this yeah you knew yep you know what you did okay just next time do it the first time I am not well one on the one hand I'm like okay cool thanks for providing such a thing on the other hand I'm like you knew that this was too long right then why wait just put that out don't wait for people to confirm something you suspected there's no way you were surprised that most people were like oh four hours is too long for this really you that didn't cross your mind man I need some beans there's no beans in this studio is there probably oh [Music] thank you my number five is my newest game on the list it is very recent and it's a game that uh neither you nor Z like I like it but I I really wish it was significantly shorter this is wild Serengeti this is a beautiful looking game interesting choice where you are placing animal you're playing as a videographer a nature videographer and you're trying to get particular layouts of animals and essentially you're just moving them on this gridded board they're moving animals around unnatural moving around well no you're you're putting meat out and trying to get them to to come to the meat um so you're ruining the habitat well look Let's uh not get caught up in the details beautiful game and I like mechanically what it's doing I know you're not big on these types of games but it works for me other than it is too long I feel like it could have been for a game of this weight because it's a it's a relatively like great game half the length it should have been literally half the length yeah I think it goes six days it should be three days um for six days I believe I think that the round six rounds maybe I don't know if the rounds are days they may be but it just goes on too long um you could get the same experience in half the time and that's what they should have done I I really really to the extent that I want to continue playing it I own it I'm going to keep it I'm probably going to come up with some ways it would not be hard to to do some housework I think I might test a four round game maybe four rounds which just started on on the third day right skip those first two days because who cares yeah and then just go from there the only thing is that you probably wouldn't want to clear the board after that first round maybe after the second round that's true does take about a seat the board up but you could just well you figure it out it's your problem that's it the solo game you start with animals maybe maybe you can do it that way start the game with some animal Seated on the board that's the way the solo Game Works anyway so anyway or you could sell it no it's a good game it's just too long you didn't like it this is a game I really do like uh quite a bit and so well I mean I think I would like it more if it was shorter yes for sure 100 it's still there's still other problems with the game but yes yeah all right there's my number five wild Serengeti my number five is a bit of a strange pick and but when I saw it come across the screen it's not oh this is a new Uncharted terrific Cosmos oh put this out and it's an old Stefan Feld game that very few people I think know or have a two-player game no it's not oh okay I got it Stephen Feld Cosmos you said I think it's in Cosmos yes old Stefan and it's in there literature line like pillows of the earth and all of those games so it's based on literature what was that game called that's not a two-player game no it's a deduction game sort of kind of thematically at least oh it's a game called the name of the Rose oh okay the Umberto Echo game I never played this yeah the name of the Rose but I mean that cover makes me want to is that my uncle that is uh yes uh he's part of that's he's part of a lot she's not the at what you're looking for this is an interesting if again very point-sality mechanical movement game everything about this game is just drawing me to play it I I really liked this game this is an interesting game with positioning the characters moving them around trying to move around suspicion using these characters from one place to another one this is a neat game very well made completely different from the usual failed offerings it's just too long and this is a known issue with this game most people's complaints with this game are neat solid it's too long hmm and I wish this would come back you know Stefan felt I know doesn't really do as much sort of return to the source there's like uh kanitzia would do no but I would love to see this game come back into print reworked tightened up a little bit because it really does different unique things they need to do is they need to name it after a city like Poughkeepsie and then Queen I would do it where in Poughkeepsie is Carmen San Diego okay I played my number five yeah I thought you guys this is very little no I was thinking about the Builder's duel one I was thinking Cosmos this is ravensburg so I got that wrong but it's still not too long though this duel is uh use the clues yeah Builder's duel is the two-player version of killers pillars yeah yeah all right this game on any list it's a game I my eyes go but I would like it if it was shorter and I'm talking I think I would like it if it was 15 to 20 of the current length and I think it could be done it's an old game it averages around seven hours to play Seven Ages you're not talking about diplomacy I am talking about diplomacy I hate diplomacy but guaranteed I would not my my dislike of it is I don't want to play a seven hour game with all that tenseness that this kind of game brings I can handle a tense game where we're all stab each other and back and yeah for an hour an hour and a half for seven hours it's too long yeah also you know if you're friends first like when you if you've ever watched the show Survivor and you see those people get really mad when somebody betrays them you go but it's just a game because you watched it for 45 minutes they've been there for days yeah yeah and the longer you are and you get betrayed it really bothers you yeah but you know what else uh what other game is too long at seven hours all of them okay are too long at seven hours let's see but I wouldn't put Twilight and pyramids because I agree that game you're having fun the whole time diplomacy you could be in really boring positions for hours and that's the thing and Twilight Imperium is designed to be that length of game like you are actively involved well that's what's kind of designed to be like at the end because turns are 15 minutes long I guess but because it's 15 minutes for everyone going around talking and talking then you write everything on paper you reveal it you do all the orders and then 15 more minutes the first turn is 30 minutes long hey turn the first turn yes could you do some sort of diplomacy Express where you have a stand timer perhaps well I think so and I'm saying I think I would like diplomacy I think the concept is neat everyone starts in different positions the talking and working to each other it's just too long the length it could have been done and I know this because I like these styles of games One Night Ultimate diplomacy just the first one is there could you play this game it's werewolf diplomacy could you please not betray somebody is it possible to play this game where you tell the truth and you and you honor every bargain yes but it's still you can tell the truth but at some point You're Gonna Go I'm attacking you now okay you can tell the truth but I mean it is a one-person winning I mean I guess there's things where two people can win or whatever but you're going to eliminate everybody gotcha so I mean at some point if you come to me and say hey worked out I'm gonna have to be like sorry Mike I'm about to stomp on you right that doesn't necessarily feel good no so yeah I but I would like it other than that diplomacy [Music] my number four is a game that I like a whole lot it's in my top 100 actually in my top 50. the one the one beef I have with it is that it feels too long um to the extent that much like um Abomination the designer has come out and said all right well if you feel the game is too long here's a way to to shorten it up try to think how many games has this been done to is it waking rounds it is not it's a because it is not a Ryan locket game it is good it is a colossal slash um madigo or asthma Day game it's a designer that's known for small games this is his only big game mazzo this is Mezzo yeah yeah I was about to say uh the heroes of AirLand and see because that's awesome designer only does small games that's true yeah so mezzo is a game that I love I mean I really really really love it it's too long it is too long it is too long there's a variance that's short there is a John clowdus has come up with a way to to basically this is one of those games where you you the first kind of third of the game is Just ramping up it's almost like a pre-game and he's like okay just start with this and just get to it okay um and and that does help I still tend to play the game as it was written in the rule book just because that's what I'm more familiar with what I'm more comfortable with um but it does feel a little long and I do wish that it kind of got going quicker so maybe I will try that Designer kind of uh variant at some point I haven't yet almost always will try a designer that makes a game faster yeah very rarely do I go that it happens but very rarely do I go the game's over I wish it was longer I almost never think that yeah I think that sometimes some games are too short sure right but that's why I said almost never but it's rare that the designer would then as a response put out a variant or something yeah that is was already too short or makes it too short right how long is this game it's been so long well it depends on player count for sure but you get 12 people yeah yeah you can't play 12. uh what is Max in this game five uh if we with an expansion the box is for you can get a fifth place so that Max is four the max is four number two so play with five expansions that add more players always a bad idea yeah I mean it could go over three hours you know and and it it's it shouldn't because it's a snappier game than that it's also a very very smart game that does some really neat things in this space of kind of uh you know troops on a map it doesn't feel like every one of those games and so I still love the game My only the reason why it's so high is that I would have really almost nothing bad to say about the game other than a few little component issues if it weren't for the length right that's the only thing when someone asks you want to play can you teach me meso yes do you have a couple hours that kind of a thing so that's why it's on my list all right uh top four here I've got four games left two of them are from Fantasy Flight games this one certainly is you should have just put Fantasy Flight as your number one company just the company wrap it up FFG this this company has gone on too long right like wait a minute what are you saying all right so my number four is fallout Fallout is I just talked about Fallout really I would not have considered this one Fallout is a really solid interesting design with the main cleverness coming out of it being that sort of uh that deck of cards that tells you the story yeah and will advance this way or that based on what's Happening and something they lifted wholesale and put in Arkham Horror Third Edition it's a it's a great bit of design really works well tells a great story it just is too long and unfortunately in this game that issue is compounded because in this one there are these sort of two factions vying for control you know the the uh Academy and the autonomous or whatever they're called I don't remember um there's two groups and you are sort of backing one group or the other one for how long this game is and you're looking at like three hours the switching of those two and who's in the lead is just too volatile you could play Thinking you are doing just fine two hours and 40 minutes and then it flip-flops on you the last 20 minutes of the game and you just got the floor was wiped with you so that's that doesn't work out now I know they put out an expansion that tried to fix that they put out another expansion that made it Cooperative because it was not and that was a big deal with people big problem but if the original one with that weird end game system was just shorter it wouldn't have been a problem I would have loved this game at one hour with the same stuff that's going on moving around leveling up fighting these dudes neat dice system in a great story like I said it just goes on and on and does the same thing again FFG seems unperturbed by length they just don't care I will take that football from you go ahead baby run my number four yeah okay still a fantasy fight sure in fact you just edited a video where I talked about this game um this game I love the game everything about it except for length and the length actually made me not want to play they came out with a third edition which was done by a different designer and completely changed the game I think I like second edition better it's just too long and that's Rune bound this is from Martin Wallace of all people I definitely did not do a video with this oh Roy did Roy did sorry I'm like okay I don't remember this one this is a Wallace game yes really I did not know that um yeah I know no one ever mentions this one yeah this game it's an adventure game you're moving around you're collecting allies you're collecting weapons and you fight enemies first you fight small ones and you level up but you get some more good stuff you fight the harder ones and you eventually fight the the dragonlords there's some big dragon Lords around you find the Big Bad Dragon Lord he's hidden somewhere you fight him you beat him you win okay it's very fun they have lots of expansion packs you can switch in different enemies that you fight instead of dragon Lords you fight something else I love it it just takes too long wow I mean again this is this is a classic early Arts Fantasy Flight this was all their games at this point in time yes correct I mean you could say descent you could say any of these games right but Roomba particularly I found egregious because I like the game so much it's fun to level up it's fun together now it's fun to get coins and buy weapons but you just kind of like you there's this one mechanism where you roll a bunch of dice that show terrain and then you pick those that's how you move on the board so I rolled two trees of water and a plane okay so I can move here just oh that sounds like the the lost city conicias game what's that called The Quest for Eldorado it sounds like quest for El Dorado uh the dice game yeah so that's probably happening now if you're watching konitzia you better mention me in the design credits also one percent uh you get half of that I'll take that too um but that's a cool moving concept yeah but also as slow as we came down because someone goes okay I can move here I'm like just roll uh just roll die then right I mean or just set you four movement points sure something they could have streamlined so many parts of it and then they they really streamlined a third edition but they also change it from you you were flipping tokens I remember that I remember yeah I remember it didn't play it but I remember hearing about it and it was fine but this was the one I love it's too long and that so discourages me because I think this would be in my top 100 otherwise yeah so Roomba and second edition interesting [Music] all right my number three is a game that I do like quite a bit um it is number one no no it is billed as at this point it's billed as a multiplayer game but this is not this is purely a solo game and I I will staunchly say that my number three is Nemo's War um I really like Nemo's War it does a lot of cool things but it does a lot of cool things for a very long time actually actually if it did a lot of cool things for a very long time it would be okay I guess but you're you're rolling dice you're doing checks you're doing check after check after check after check and yeah there's a little story elements there's not much of a story really there's some cool stuff but I I've gotten to the point where I just don't pull this out anymore I had it I got rid of it I consider getting it back and I'm like do I really want to sit through and play this again for another three hours I don't think I do it's just too long again just too long you know I didn't put any I don't think I did let me just double check yeah I didn't put any really solo games on my list because I don't mind them being longer I can set it up and look at the table so those awaken round games like tainted Grail and all that they're really long yeah but I got the time to be clear I've played many many games of Nemo's world it was in my collection for years I mean it was one of my top solo games I still think it's a good design I I'm not saying it's a bad design I'm just saying that at this point I think it just is too long for me I mean I don't want to keep coming back because it doesn't change enough from game to game you could change the the uh what do they call it the the his motor the motive you can change the motive and sure that's going to change some things it's going to change kind of the scoring but you're still you can make it slightly shorter it can Maybe not maybe it just moves where those cards it changes it'll change where some triggers are and things like that but it's going to be a long game and you're right you can go away and come back to it and so maybe it's not as much of an issue but I tended to play as Nemo's war in a one discrete session I wouldn't go away and come back to it so and it is whatever that's not the right word it's behind a curtain one one what are you doing Eddie distinct distinct maybe I don't know that's discreet I need I need one of those calendars that give me the fancy super silliest words anyway uh Nemo's war is a good game but if you remember what they mean and don't write down a list of them and then forget half the definitions for me um not to be a hipster but this game for me is kind of a mood yeah I have to be in that movie be in that mood and it's its own thing it is long it is pretty much different from everything in my collection and and if and when I want to play this I'm okay with that game length yeah but I don't always want to play this because it's long and has a lot of moving parts and a lot of rules and it feels sort of war game adjacent it does in some way it does so you have to be in that mood yeah all right my number where we had three my number three is a game that is solely it's not Fantasy Flight this is solely on here um because when I play two players I have no issue with this game whatsoever and if I play at three which I've done once or twice never again and if I play at four which I've never done because each player adds like 30 minutes I would have a serious serious problem with this game it had each player has 30 minutes each player is like 30 extra minutes and this game is should not be a two two and a half hour game it needs to be an hour Lewis and Clark Lewis and Clark is two at higher player counts wrong I consider this for my list and I was like now I even have a shorter I think I still wouldn't I really like this game I think it's a solid hand-building racing kind of game which you're making your way down the river over the mountains you know basically what took her out of this house getting to the other coast I like what's happening in this game it's very attractive it got it's got some interesting combo building going on in it but man does it not scale well and the only reason it does not scale well is time there's nothing mechanically that makes it not scale well it just takes that much longer for that player to do every one of their turns this could have been solved very easily I mean you could have us Traverse fewer spaces that would do it something else I don't know but it just drags on and on and on and on and by two two thirds of the way through before I even hit those mountains I'm like just drag me into the river and drown me I don't care anymore who wins and what's this even more egregious I think is that it's a race game at heart it's a hand management game but it is but it is technically a race game that is how you win yeah it should feel like a race game if it does not yeah do you like the dice version the dice version I think is is nice yeah I like the dice I do too it's much I like this one more as a game yeah um so yeah if this scaled better across the player counts I wouldn't like it a lot more as it is at two I think it's a solid game I just I just in my head consider it a two-player game and then walk away so that's my three all right I feel a little bad because I've been my number three we I've been beating up on in several of my past top 10 lists over the past couple years oh that's mean although it used to be one of my favorite games of all time since we're talking about time this has time and the title and it's this one is time stories oh time pirates actually is a little longer it should be but specifically the where this came into mind is the Brotherhood of the coast is this the one this is the pirate one this is the one where we had a sh we were on the ship a pirate ship and we we went we first fight a ship and we died and then we just went we're back here again we're fighting it again because we would have done everything the exact same way right and there was no other ship you get or nothing right looking back at this there should have been a way for them to do that there should have been a way for them to say if you're gonna make all the same choices nothing different right come back here and take this many like time units that should have been in the game you shouldn't because again that's how the movies work right when you watch Groundhog Day you watch his whole first day even then it's you don't see the whole first day you see right 20 minutes of it then the second time they show you 10 minutes then five and pretty soon they're showing you a second at a time but in time stories you got to go back and do it all again yeah um I agree that this system would have the first time was incredible because it was really doing something you hadn't seen before and they were keeping those Loops to like three or four for the whole game this one the one where we were traversing the desert and you couldn't and you couldn't go back to the beginning in that one actually so we got it sort of reset the story from when we were already in the desert and we're in there and realize we don't have the equipment to fight these uh these Magi we're stuck here how did we get through that did we pretend to go probably pretended I don't know it's just to sort of it locks you into these Loops that you need to keep going so yeah so this one we had some problems with time stories I didn't put I was gonna put the final one The Madam oh yeah because that one did this Loop thing ad nausea but my problem with that one is the whole drink your oval team thing yeah I'm still I am still actively angry about that years later I'm still Matt just think about it okay go back to the other part the time the time is just it it's wasted time you are literally like let's do that again oh I wonder what's behind this card oh okay that's just you're you're wasting my time then as a player I'm I don't know I just feel like they could have sorted down and then and the pirate one was one where it just came into Focus we're like why are we doing this and I remember I said let's go back and you and Sam were like I don't know it feels kind of like cheating but we don't want to do all that stuff again we would have done everything the same way and it was like a 20 minute yeah 25 minutes thing that's not good you just pretend and go right from there yeah that which is which breaks the immersion right it means sure you're not really doing it anymore you're just sort of going through the bumbling along now so anyway that's my number three time stories with the Brotherhood of the coast [Music] [Music] all right my number two is a game that I like quite a bit but it has a similar situation that you have with Lewis and Clark and then this is a player count thing for me well I think it's also just part of the design more players are going to add more time to the game um I will not play this if I can help it at more than two I'll play it at one or two this is an uve Rosenberg game oh well it's not one of his new big ones kinda is one of his newer big ones yeah caverna A Feast for Odin now if he's thrown is fine with three or four are you out of your mind are you on your mind no I played a four player game with Feast for Odin that took over four hours player problem so many times we talk about this game and you complain about the number of choices in it now you're saying no I warn people I love the number of choices in it Tom Mike this is one of my favorite games I love this game Tom it's too long Beyond two I love it too guys no feasting on Odin yeah this is too long Beyond two players I really like this game a lot this is probably I think this is my favorite uve game but it's too long when you get Beyond two players it just it is I don't agree well you can you can be wrong but it's way too long this is something there you the more players you add the more time you add and the downtime and your next turn is immense what are you it's a worker placement boom done let me see how I'm going to place this on my board oh I need to get this I need to get my uh because you start placing your board it's the next person's term no because you need to figure out well if I go here then I can get this piece I haven't put my piece down yet uh again player problem No No One's Gonna Do It people are always going to try to in a game like this an efficiency puzzle game like this people want to be as efficient as they can but they're going to take forever to be efficient it's a long game it's a good game a really good game it's too long too long you know hey look you're never gonna agree with me I don't care it's too long my number two Beast for Road are you done with that Odin fried Odin leg you've been feasting on over there tastes like Valhalla all right my number two is my final pick from Fantasy Flight games this is a pretty recent game very recent you had a shot FFG you had a shot a recent game yeah they had a shot with this one to fix a lot of those things I've been dragging them through the mud for and you messed it up again wait do we have the same number two are you kidding me we do have the same number two unfathomable we almost at the same time okay it's the same thing yeah well yeah we can talk about it but I mean that one yes but it's old his is uh I should have put on fabulous shut up he's gonna say Battlestar Galactica let me time Jump Blue Battlestar Galactic unfathomable is a reworking of that which came out what two years ago a year ago not that long ago you're right though this this is actually so irritating it's worse because it's newer and you guys know that a shorter game I think like one of the complaints I should say about Battlestar Galactica they were a couple there's not that many it's a robust game but one of them is this could be a little tighter especially now when there are this many more social deduction games that have proven you can do this yeah in a shorter time frame and retain your tension your interest are we going to do that are we going to trim a little fat off no we're going to leave all the fat on that turkey leg much Like A Feast for Odin this one that aspect of it and I like this better than Battlestar because I like this theme better um disappointed me in that aspect really alone they could have trimmed a little bit off and it's like they don't care or they chose not to I don't get it man I don't get it it could make it a little tighter I don't need it to be a belt 45 minutes but I'll take two hours instead of three I can't believe I didn't think of this at all my number two is Battlestar Galactica but they again they're the same system they're the same game and I know every time I mention is those people who love Bachelor Galactic and you know what I have loved many games of it they were fun but with all the social deduction games out and I'm not including Battlestar Galactica Express which was re-med as dark moon which is not that good thank you no yeah it's not um I just like the shorter idea of the deduction games and I Battlestar Galactica is good but it's not it's just too long it's especially egregiously long if you're in prison well can you play this game in prison Tom I mean I don't know I mean put a file in there at least or what's it called it's not called prison the bridge you mean in the game the game is especially long yeah and I feel like they could have shortened it up so each expansion what do you think they did they're like let's make it longer did you like this episode on Battle cycle we're gonna make that a whole section that we add on to the game it's like what and the expansions wildly got out of control yeah I have a bachelor Galactica to the point where a lot of people I know play it pretty much straight they might add a few things from the first expansion Exodus and everything after that we're just like never happened Pegasus ship is cool and then pretty much everything else after that was just extra stuff fat again it's just like no we don't need more but Z is Right unfathomable I was like ooh here's their chance to streamline it I just don't think they care anymore and you know what I get on one level other than dead of winter there are not many huge deduction Games Social deduction games they're mostly smaller I'm not talking about a giant box that you open up and pretend it's a big game um but I mean they're mostly small games so I can see that some people look for this but it I had the same thing about this as I said about diplomacy when I play something like Battlestar Galactica I get all stressed and I'm in there and it's all the longer the game gets when I'm done I feel exhausted I feel like I'm what a shorter one I'm done I'm like okay now let's do something else right yeah so again two hours 90 minutes right isn't sure that's not a tiny little filler no you know it just you can pack the momentum a little tighter if you go from three hours to two and keep your highs and lows keep your energy you know just make it more cinematic die huh I thought you would argue with me on this one yeah yeah all right anyway Battlestar going to go my number two [Music] my number one is uh number one because a it's the first game I thought of when you mentioned this list and B it's the game that I think would jump higher in my estimation if it was a third maybe half of the length it's a boss battler it's a new game this is townsfolk tussle oh interesting choice I really like this game but I feel like it needs to be shorter you this is actually one of the easiest ones if you really want to you just said we're playing half the game and I think you need to because you basically you play through a series of bosses until you get to the big boss and it's really clever mechanically even the way that you progress from one to the next is cool and they've got kind of like a a town phase in between where you can get new new items and things along those lines and they have a leveling where the the bosses get a little bit more tough and and different things so all of it mechanically is very cool but it's just too long too long a game of this are you calling that it's like the two three people and then a boss yes it's four it's four four bucks the game is not a campaign game you're not you're not meant to play one boss put the game away and come back and play the song right you're meant to play it back to back to back to back that is the game that is the game and it's too long it should be it should be what two maybe two bosses and then the the big bad three three is slightly longer than I would want yeah it's still a little bit longer it's fine four is too long yeah two you might feel a little you know what though I have played just one I've been like hey I just play one and we played it we're like it is still fun but it's not the game as it's presented in the Box no I get it because you do get extra stuff to the next for the next time there is a there is an arc there there is an arc and again the way that the bosses kind of interact with things changes from level to level so really neat game does some very cool stuff but it is too long it it's significantly too long and yeah maybe we should work on some type of a variant for it but I really think you you really could I think there might even be some rules in there to take out some cards to handle take a look you know give out some extra cards I've said when I played with my kids one time I was like here's how much money I think we would have got the first scenario yeah we're starting right on the second boss sure you can you're fine you can do that very distracted by your Banks right now that's really distracted I'll tell you what though if it rains this is the hat to wear the rain ain't touching me or the people next to me you're too close in the zip code if that's the case my number one was kind of folk Tesla hey man if I remember my job had this hat he would be taken to people out by the Torso if who had it odd job the guy from mothers yes you look like uh he would also have a head down the guy from Mortal Kombat who throws his hat and Kane [Music] now Ryu is the that's Raiden never mind um Liu Kang it wasn't get over here I don't know somebody will tell me my number one I have a similar problem with what you're saying with uh townsfolk tussle the difference being in townsfolk tussle you do have punctuated sort of chapter breaks if you want to call it very much so you do have a place where if you wanted to stop would feel like a natural stopping place that's true I think this game does not even though there is a save system which is garbage you guys were talking about how you weren't including this I am including it it's my number one the seventh continent oh okay okay are you kidding this game might take a seven hours eight hours ten I don't know I mean just keep going yeah and going and going and eventually you like die possibly eight hours into a a Cooperative game no and you're telling me if I want to play that curse again or what scenario I gotta start again from the beginning yes I can kind of go in a different way but there are wrong choices um So eventually I'll have to do a bunch of the same stuff again that is too long and this is not a game you can just pick up and come back to not elegantly I do not like the same system in this game that I thought I like the save system I tried it once and I was like you know what next time we're just playing straight through yeah I hate the save system you literally for the sake of packing it up easily reset the map yeah could you imagine if that was true in say like video games like if you're playing Legend of Zelda you save when you come back there's fog of War everywhere around you except where you're standing I would hate that a lot you'd have to discover everything again you'll be like I think the horse farm was kind of that way let me start walking that way oh look it's a giant are there giants in there I don't know come back to seventh continent is too long I like that I didn't even consider it and I didn't put it on my list because I have fun that whole long period of time I really do I do it's too long it's too long I want shorter curses I don't care if I'm getting less content or whatever I don't understand this fascination with this game you can play for 300 hours I won't okay most people won't uh-huh it's it's it's it's meaningless if I'm not going to consume it okay this cake is three stories tall it doesn't matter I'm still only eating a piece of cake bad analogies you're gonna eat a three-story cake a hundred percent there we go I'll bring time along that cake will be toast it's another bag toast cake oh toast cake all right Tom what's your number we're gonna bring a top the cake will be good thanks Mike I'm saying you and I were shaking hands you agreed with me Sports feeding you three stories okay I hear this all right um my number one would be probably in my top 20 games of all time or so but it uses an app if it was shorter right no it it should be the length of an Ube Rosenberg game which are not that long um but it's and it feels like an obey Rosenberg but it's way too long I love it other than that and that's the colonists oh this one's a really big deal for me because I love this game and it is straight too long and I can't think of any way to shorten it this is weird though because isn't this designed to be like three distinct ages four distinct ages and they added a fifth for lunatics in some expansion straight through yes oh that's crazy and that's the problem and here's the thing I would say well skip the first is you need them to build up and it really is it's more interesting each age because there's more things at it it's a it feels like a Rosenberg game where there's buildings out there and you're using yeah Lookout and it's such a cool game and that map I know that but I like all those different buildings do all different things and it's so awesome but I it is a minimum of four hours it's just too long and I don't want to do that every time yeah yeah and I can't cut out the fourth age because then you miss you know on the book they're like we could just play a few ages but then they're like the book says you could play for your ages but you're kind of missing out on the progression and you are yeah it's not like it's the same thing the whole time it does get better yeah but it's too long ah this is such a good game so you still want him to keep the four inches just truncated I don't know how I almost I they should probably get rid of the first age and just give you more resources and stuff or build a pre-built map or something like that right um I don't know how to fix it that's why it's my number one because this one frustrates me yeah I mean and if you catch me in the right mood at a con or somewhere I might even play it you know if I have the four hours to spare because I like it that much but when I played initially I said it was a six because the time of the length of the game did not equal the fun I had sure oh but it could happen it's just a lot of fun all right before we get to the People's Choice um I do want to mention several people mentioned various games like terraforming Mars sure and other games games that I've had horribly long sessions of but I didn't include any game that was horrible because of a player because players can ruin almost any game yeah and any game that gives you we talk about them we're talking that's almost a different list like games with the option of analysis browsers sure it is those are huge but like onesie mentioned it don't matter if you're fast it's still gonna be long right just because of the way the nature of the game is and so that's why I I mean my dog one time played a game of terrifying Mars with a guy who played with all his cards face down and every time it was his turn he would pick one a card up and look at it and he would do this with all those guys yeah and then so that game took like four hours but that's I don't think that's the gains fault no um I'm pretty sure it's not very confident it's not all right let's see but let's see what the people voted for Here We Go number 10 through six I'm betting there's gonna be a lot of Elder Charter bam you know what some people say katana's long because of the um the trading especially if they play with five or six yeah it's in the expansion don't do it that's Tom's second rule of thermodynamics Tom that's your number one game up there number art Nova I don't think it's too long frankly I know it's long but I I'm I'm enjoying it the whole time that's my number 11 for sure all right Nova okay seven glue Maven I think blue maven's built to be long so yeah I didn't really consider gloomhaven it also was a campaign game yeah six look at that number five munchkin I get it right my skin is a bunch of jokes I just I don't think even if munchkin was short I would like it you can keep pulling people back that's a problem in game design you need to be careful of number four battles I think unfathomable is not on the list because no one's talking about it I'm calling that one for me too I got it all right number three Twilight Imperial yeah I actually disagree with this one I think it's I mean it's too long for me to want to play but I don't think you could shorten it without losing so much of the game yes okay number two Monopoly that's kind of a given yeah yeah I just said what do we think number one is going to be I thought about Monopoly putting it on my on the list based on the number of people in our live chat that have mentioned terraforming Mars I think it's going to be number one well have you seen this I have yeah wow well that's what Prelude was about right was to yeah it's the first expansion in the history of humankind that made a game shorter like on purpose it was designed to do that yeah but Monopoly I thought about Monopoly my list and I thought it was if it was shorter would I still enjoy it the answer was no that's the thing it wasn't it's not just the lens right you're super lucky necessarily make the turn to turn in that game better it's the same yes so all righty well that wasn't too long of a time no look this is uh you know what 45 minutes yeah that's good thank you everybody for watching um this is the notice is not the last thing tomorrow we're playing a live play tomorrow morning at the game called Elric so come by and join us for that there's a contest you can win a copy of the game um and we got lots of reviews and videos going up over the course of this week next Thursday we're not doing a top ten instead we're gonna be doing a tournament of the worst board game covers in the history of humankind buckle up everybody that's gonna be a lot of fun um if you want to nominate games to be in there the brackets for that of which we're gonna let you vote on there's a thread on our Facebook group dice to our Facebook group so go in there we've already seen some great candidates where I was like yes that's one of them so I can't wait I'm very much looking forward to that like I said in the thread if you don't like negativity then a few weeks after that we'll do the best box covers of all time less fun but more uplifting we cover everything that one yeah I mean then we'll do the most media cover to put a positive spin on it I think it's gonna be a lot easier to do the best looking boxes than it will be to do the the worst looking sure I think I think the art is is uniformly better than worse wouldn't that make it harder then to pick the best because he's got so many to choose from okay you don't understand what best means alrighty folks thanks for watching we'll see you next time until then I'm Tom vassell I'm Z Garcia I'm Mike delicio have fun all right don't be wrapping it up wrap it up [Music] [Music] foreign [Music] [Music]

Channel: The Dice Tower

Views: 111,664

Keywords: board game, board, game, dice, card game, cards, catan, monopoly, tower, dice tower, vasel, review, tom vasel, vassel, settlers, gaming, GeekUsername: TomVasel, board game review, boardgame, uno, ticket to ride, apples to apples, educational games, educational, top 10, juegosdemesa, Brettspiele, ボードゲーム, brädspel, jeuxdesociété, משחקילוח, 보드게임, deskováhra, graplanszowa, bordspel, 棋盘游戏, gioco da tavolo, desková hra, gra planszowa, настольная игра, trò chơi trên bàn cờ, jogo de tabuleiro, لعبة اللوحة

Id: 1BskB21dIGQ

Length: 90min 0sec (5400 seconds)

Published: Thu Sep 01 2022