Tim Staples Testimony

[Music] well it is great to be with you and I'm really mad right now because how in the world do you father do you follow father Callaway who set this up anyway oh my goodness I feel like like my friend Patrick Madrid often says you know I'm following the Rolling Stones and now let me get out my accordion I want to before I get started I want to point out we've got a lot of stuff by the Callaway's table my table and I see we have others as well I just want to encourage everyone do not leave here with any money in your pocket all right there's gonna be police at the door ready to confiscate but check out that the tables there cuz you know I'm a firm believer some say I sound like a used car salesman but that's alright because I I tell you what's even more important than you guys come in here and getting fired up and hearing some talks is what happens tomorrow morning and Monday morning and is it really gonna take hold because as an old Pentecostal black preacher I heard years ago say it it don't matter how high you jump on Sunday now for those of you couldn't understand that it doesn't matter how high you jump on Sunday but what matters is do you walk straight on Monday amen so take something home with you I'm gonna recommend we've got stuff whether you like to listen read or watch so you have no excuse there's something back there for you and of course we got tons but if you like to listen if you're one of the few like me who still uses CDs maybe you drive a lot sort of the spirit I cover the six most important topics in biblical apologetics living bread my latest CD set my wife's favorite on our Blessed Lord real presence mass is a sacrifice scripture tradition from history as well there's the listening part if you like to watch why be Catholic and I warn you this is only for atheists agnostics members of the other major world religions I got stuff for them here whether you're Buddhist Hindu Muslim right here also any of the aboriginal religions of Africa or Australia I got you covered or if you're a member of the Orthodox or any of the Protestant sects I got you I got you right here or if you're Catholic I got you but other than that don't buy it all right I take you from no faith at all all the way to the Catholic Church in an hour and 20 minutes also another DVD truth and consequences defend the Magisterium and most importantly I show you that's gonna rock your house I show you what happens when you don't have the Magisterium by way of it will blow your mind what is happened in our the Protestant denominations today that have basically lost almost everything homosexual marriage ordaining homosexuals abortion it will rock your land and so much more folks we are very very blessed to have the Magisterium of the Catholic Church a message we need to hear right now and if you like to read nuts and bolts practical how-to guide take you step-by-step how to evangelize whether I have one chapter on dealing with an atheist in a classroom an atheist professor in a classroom a classroom to dealing with a Mormon at the door evangelical in the grocery store it's all here and of course this afternoon I'm going to be talking about behold your mother an exaustive defense of all the Marian doctrines so folks take something home with you I'm so excited to be here and by the way we reduce the prices on everything you people don't look as poor as I was told what's going on no and we did but folks I am so grateful to be here I absolutely love getting invitations to mens conferences father kaolinite Callaway and I were talking just now about how 24 years 24 25 years ago I can't believe I've been doing this 25 years professionally 25 years ago there were many more women's conferences than men's conference that has been inverted there are by far more men's conferences now and I find I'll go to a town and speak at a women's conference on Friday night in a men's conference on Saturday and the men far outnumber the women today that was unheard of 25 years ago there is a there are exciting things happening folks because as many of you know women are the foundation of civilization amen because what are we doing me and you bro what's your name Brock Brock you know what you and I are doing without that feminine influence you and I are running around throwing spears at each other that's what we're doing women are the foundation of civilization but a culture a family a church is only as strong as its men and men have been and are being emasculated we live in a culture today that is so absolutely obliterated we're arguing about what bathroom to go to folks were arguing over biology we have lost our collective minds as a culture and we need sanity and my friends it only comes principally through the strength of men who are willing to stand up and act like men but that's another talk I've been asked to share my conversion story with you guys today and I tell you gentlemen the ring just the fact that I am standing here Catholic today is a proof that there is a God just as we heard with father Donald Calloway oh my goodness what a story I can tell you if you two told me 30 years ago that one day I would be traveling the world defending the Catholic faith if you wouldn't talk I would have been trying to catch deema now to you brother I mean after I got finished laughing because folks from the time I was eight nine ten years old all I ever believed about the Catholic Church is are you kidding me even when I'm eight nine by the time I'm ten it's like how in the world I'm telling you from the core of my being how in the world could anybody with a brain that works how could they be Catholic come on man are you kidding me from the time I'm eight my pastor Eugene Forman and I'm not picking on anybody Fox I am grateful to God for the Southern Baptist community I was raised in because as you'll hear in a moment they saved my life as well as contribute to save my soul I'm grateful to God for the Assemblies of God the Pentecostal community i ministered and became a youth pastor I am grateful to God absolutely my friends so I'm not picking on anybody when I say this but I'm telling you from the time I'm eight nine ten years old all I ever heard about the Catholic Church is at best y'all were crazy I mean that would be a compliment I mean pastor for me one of the favorite verses that he used and of course I would use for years and years and years on Catholics is matthew 23:9 right and we all know oh no I'm sorry we're Catholics here let me tell you what it says all right No matthew 23:9 of course you'll know it when I say Jesus says called no man on this earth father you have one father who is in heaven amen he used to say to Catholics what part of no don't you understand right I mean it was so simple right yeah what do you call these guys with the funny collars on like we just heard from Father Jesus says call no man father you know as a kid even I remember thinking my goodness all we got to do is tell these people about Jesus and we can get him out of this insane in Catholic Church fact by the time I was 10 I wanted one day to go to the Vatican and get the pope saved cuz I was just sure nobody's ever told him about Jesus cuz if somebody told him about Jesus he wouldn't be running around calling himself Holy Father and other such nonsense right so that's where I come from you know to me when I met a Catholic in fact the first Catholic I ever met his name was Randy he lived about four houses down from me and we became friends when we both played for the same ankle-biter football team it was the 60-pound Annandale Tigers in Annandale Virginia and he was one of my teammates and we became friends found out hell he just lives right down the street but I found out he was one of them I had never seen one before I mean he was real this this is one of them it's a Catholic I wanted to poke and see if he was real and so of course when I first made the first thing out of my mouth is y'all don't baptize right see remember I'm eight years old you know y'all don't baptize right we do it the right way we we dunk folks y'all just do that sprinkle pouring stuff right so I mean the first thing whenever I met a Catholic is I got to get this boy saved that's where I come from but again I emphasize I'm grateful to God for Boulevard Baptist Church because yeah we didn't have our theology exactly right but I will guarantee you this they gave me Jesus and when I was 10 years old 1974 I accepted Jesus as my personal Lord and Savior and I was baptized and I'll never forget that Easter Sunday transformed my life when I gave my life to Jesus and from that day I wanted to be a preacher I wanted to be like my hero Billy Graham I have to say apart from the football field the boxing ring the baseball diamond my heroes were Billy Graham pastor Foreman and of course my dad but I wanted to be a preacher from the time I was ten but you know what happens gentlemen you know what happens when y'all too often you fired up at ten you know what happens twelve happens and ya lot father you and I amen brother that's when I first started in fact it was my 12th birthday the first time I got drunk my 12 birthday was with my one of my older brothers took me out to this park they were 16 and 17 and I had catch this gentleman for Colt 45 malt liquors y'all remember Colt 45 y'all shouldn't know about that I was about 75 pounds so do the math I'm falling all over the place yeah started doing drugs from the time I was 13 but you know what folks I left that Baptist Church behind I got absolutely crazy and not only me but my entire my three older brothers it's funny thing about the Staples family I'm I'm the youngest of four boys were four boys within five years my oldest two brothers are 10 months apart Irish twins so we were four boys within five years we were tight from the time we were kids fact there was folks who know us to this day know what I'm telling you is true everybody in Falls Church Fairfax County Virginia knew you don't mess with them staples boys because if you mess with one you get all four so you better think real hard that's the way we were we were tight when we were in church and we were tight when we were out of church and I don't like to talk about the out of church stuff get the CD set though I tell you the whole story catch this Jimmy Swaggart made me Catholic that's the name of the CD I have a DVD version and a CD that I recommend the CD it's three hours long I tell you the story not only my story but my whole family's story but I got way far away I'll just synopsize by saying this and my family was odd I'm the youngest but I was always the spiritual leader I was the one that got everybody to go to church my mom loved it my dad didn't really like going to church he was hitting this Easter Christmas but I was the one when I left church the whole family left even mom was reduced to eastern Christmas we all got away in fact we got way far away all for my brothers and I until by the time of our teens and early 20s for my older brothers let's just synopsize by saying this we're talking about getting in Oh with my older brothers gang fights stabbed oh how is my brother Ted alive imagine if one gang fight getting cut through the face and then into the tongue he had to get stitches on his tongue the inside of his cheek and outside of his G we're talking about getting shot at stabbed stealing a few cars just for kicks breaking in huh all right we won't talk about all that but the bottom line is we got about as far away from God as you can imagine I even claimed atheism when I was 16 17 years old didn't want anything to do with religion but you know the amazing thing about the Hound of heaven the Holy Spirit it's amazing how I would claim atheism and such and I would I remember gentleman I remember a party I can remember four years old guys this is a long time ago probably to be exact about 38 years ago but I can remember a particular party where this young girl named Teresa I remember she was Catholic and she went to a Catholic school so I was I was just all over her ridiculing her for believing in God what you can't handle life you gotta have some God that you can hang on to as a crutch I can remember and yet doing that kind of stuff and yet I can also remember late at night early in the morning when the party's over being absolutely miserable absolutely empty I remember one night driving my catch this 1972 ooh dodge dart remember that thing with a slant six couldn't get out of its own way you had to put it to the floor to get up a hill that was my car amen driving my 72 Dodge Dart out to Devonshire elementary school I remember parking the car had the headlights out shining over that old baseball field that doesn't exist anymore I took my wife over there years ago to show her and it's been built over but I remember the shine and the lights down on there and seeing that baseball field and remembering when we were kids my dad pitching batting practice to us on that field coaching our team's football baseball and I remember looking up this was after the partying and drunk and you name it and and saying what in the world happened to my life I'm absolutely miserable longing to go back to those days church on Sunday playing baseball and football and learning how to fight miserable and yet the next day right back on the merry-go-round you know if you ever heard the old saying sin makes you stupid you know father John corapi says that oh we're not supposed to say that word father John crap he used to say Sharon make sure don't break remember that sin makes you stupid that's where I was I was just in the mud and the mire and did absolutely depressed then the next day here we go again but thanks be to God folks let's fast-forward because it was one night when I was 18 years old now just two I'll give you a little more of the dirt that I really don't like talking about but I ended up leaving school when I was 16 kind of like father Callaway I was doing my own thing I left early right after the last football game my junior year cuz I had to play through that football season that's why my shoulders destroyed but anyway I left school and gotten a whole lot of trouble trouble with the law and ended up my parents signed legal guardianship over to another family was actually a friend of mine it's older brother big ol burly dude 250 pounds big old beard and and his wife I was gonna stay with them they were gonna straighten me out right well I ended up partying with them not a good choice there folks ended up partying with them and when I was 18 soon as I turned 18 I was gone I'm on my own I'm living with one of my older brothers partying working construction and partying living for the weekend yeah but I was partying during the week and the weekend working construction but I'll never forget one night after partying big time I don't even know how many Budweiser's I had that night but I remember there's no way I should have been able to drive home I did total two cars drunk both times I to this day it's God's grace that explains the fact that I'm alive but I remember driving back to this old apartment my brother Mike and I were living in with a friend of his Tim Leary and his family they had a family business and over top of the family business they had an old apartment and we were living there because it was cheap wrestling with the cockroaches for the sheets are y'all with me that was I remember coming back to that apartment after partying big time and I sit down and I watch the tea I turned the TV on and I saw the lady that father Calloway was talking about I gotta get some money to pay for my wife's makeup yeah that was her I turned the TV on and there she was and I got to tell you you know it's probably two o'clock in the morning one o'clock in the morning and the TV was moving for some reason it was kind of that probably was the 16 beers I had or so but anyway so but I see this woman and when I first I gotta admit she scares you when you first whoa but you know what she said the name Jesus isn't that something she said the name Jesus and there she was crying mascara run it didn't anybody tell did they have waterproof mascara because evidently not it's running down her face she had eyelashes so long she could fly that's what was her name Tammy fake now how do you Catholics know about her but I turned it on and you know what my friends she talked about Jesus I didn't hear that from you God where were you guys back then nobody came to my door I didn't have Catholics sharing the faith with me I'm grateful to God Tammy Faye was she said Jesus and you know what through all the Budweiser's my ears perked up and I started listening and then she gave the microphone over to her husband what was his name Jim Baker and he gave a little message just like my pastor Foreman used to when I was eight nine ten years old ask people to accept Jesus and I got to tell you I knelt down in front of that TV set in that old dusty apartment and I asked Jesus to come back into my life and I believe Jesus met me that day and that's why you don't tend to hear a whole lot of judgmental stuff coming out of Tim staples mouth against folks like Jim and Tammy Bakker and Jimmy sweat you know what that the thing that amazes me is who in the world are Catholics to be talking about anybody else amen I think we've had a few things going on here here and there but you know what I'm grateful to God yeah Jim and Tammy and Jimmy got in way over their heads and their problems they need some Catholicism and absolutely but again I'm grateful to God for this they brought me back to Jesus and I ended up leaving that apartment I moved back home with my parents now some of y'all are cringing right well let me tell you my mom was so happy to see me come home and not in handcuffs Amen if my mom was here right now she would be shouting amen I came home and I said mom I've given my life back to Jesus and I told her about Christian television we started watching together mom was so happy I'm telling you she was just huh I think it didn't matter if I became a Moony she'd have been happy though doing something other than what I was doing but she starts watching with me and we found out our two favorite evangelists Jim Baker and Jimmy Swaggart were both Assembly of God ministers I had never heard of the Assemblies of God before but we got the yellow pages out found Assemblies of God there it is Christ chapel Assembly of God Woodbridge Virginia we were there on Sunday morning and I gotta tell y'all we walked in there and it was electric it was like oh my my good deep I'm this is gonna shock you all right now some of y'all I pray don't don't let them be scandalized when I say this but these people actually hang on now they actually smile during church I know I know I know oh my gosh scandalous isn't it yeah you know I'm joking with you kind of but but I got a tech not folks I'm not talking about turning the mass into a circus I get that it's called the Holy Sacrifice of the mass I get it amen but it wouldn't kill you to smile you know I was I got a fast-forward tell you this little story one of the first times I went to Mass after fast forward to the end here when I discovered the Catholic Church one of the first times I go to a Catholic Church I'm well I mean when I went I had no idea what y'all we're doing I I so sympathize with father Callaway I remember going in there and I'm trying to figure out what y'all are doing because the instruction book is useless because it's all over the place I don't know where to find where are we and and then y'all are oh this is this really ticks me off I'm trying to figure out what y'all are doing that's it oh yeah and then half a year down and half of you're up so I do this I didn't know what to do but when it came to the sign of peace that I could do Pentecostal church yeah I could and I remember where the first I turn to shake hands with the God next to me and I kid this I'm not kidding the dude big ol burly dude right and he's like this I turned to no man I'm standing here right I turned to shake his hand he goes just like this man he looked at me like if you touch me I will kill you and I'm like is it me I had no idea that crazy you know the silly stuff going on in the in the Catholic Church and forgive me folks but it is silly at times this stuff we will fight over in the cat come on y'all I mean yep sign of peace that's the devil getting into the church that's what it is dude I get it it's optional I understand Holy Sacrifice somebody reaches their hand I shake their hand shake the hand smile you never know I told this to the folks last night that God next you might be sitting at mass and this may be the last time he ever goes to Mass because he's been evangelized by Bob and Pete's Church of fun down the street and he is is there is God in this Catholic Church and then he meets Joe I'm more orthodox than the Pope who and that's it he's gone amen y'all anyway forgive me for that folks at Catholic Answers get mad at me when they do when I say that I don't care because souls are more important in my way of thinking but at any rate folks when we walked into that Assembly of God community I'm gonna tell you something these folks not only did they smile at church but I mean I'll never forget what pastor says are there any visitors here my mom and I raise their hand big mistake big mistake I mean folks they were jumping over pews chasing us I mean it's like welcome to the in fact we didn't know it at the time but Christ Chapel Assembly God everybody was a member of a house group so the house group leaders were chasing us come to our house come to our house we made on Wednesday night we've made on Thursday night our food is better than theirs come to our how they were fighting over sin I got to tell you something man this meant so much to me a wayward kid I had just left everything my girlfriend my friends the party scene and everything I've got nothing and nobody and I walk into this assembly God community and these people loved me and embraced me brought me into a singles and I I jumped right in on it folks why is it that at Catholic churches are you kidding me instead of let's welcome the visitors it's like as soon as mass is over if you're lucky most of them are gone right after Communion or earlier if they can't receive are y'all with me they're gone and then after church it's like get out of my way it's bumper cars in the parking lot get out of my way I think we need to work on that I really do folks I mean actually introducing yourself hey that's why the Knights of Columbus have those Donuts after mass amen invite somebody over there you know you don't have to see every minute of the Chargers game hey well y'all this isn't San Diego here is it no are y'all with me I mean Lord have a men DVR it baby all right anyway here's the point we were so excited I got plugged into everything Bible study youth ministry Singles Ministry Detention Center ministry I had had experience there this is a good one for me alright and I did I'm I'm so on fire my mom bought me a Bible King James Version the open Bible study add a King James Version red-letter Edition baby gotta be read letter I read through it so many times I still have it it's in pieces it's in three pieces it fell all right I started highlighting it and yellow turned the whole thing yellow then I had the orange orange as I read through it and read through it I'm so excited I'm so fired up I can't stand it and I felt the same desire to be a preacher that I felt when I was 8 years old I wanted oh man this is it this is I don't want to do anything else except tell people about Jesus but here was the problem problem was I didn't have a high school diploma you know if there's any young people here probably if you want to do something with your life a good first step he's getting high school to people I mean I'm not even talking about college grad school I didn't have high school diploma and so we had a problem I needed education in a hurry and you know what else I just I don't know if y'all know this but did you know it cost money to get educated did y'all know that I learned that real quick it cost money to get I needed some money I drank all my money every bit of my paychecks were going to rent food beer and other stuff and I I was broke there was something else I needed discipline how many of you know when you've been living like the devil for years his father Callaway points out you come to Jesus it's not just a miracle now wow I think Jesus said it in mark 14:38 the Spirit is willing but every Catholic knows that verse have you ever noticed that that's the Catholic John 3:16 but the flesh is weak I know that one and amen it is profoundly true the flesh is what I needed discipline in my life so where's the fella to go I need education in a hurry money for education and discipline any ideas not just service my friend you got that wrong Marine Corps let's just get that straight now I'm Joe hey I don't want to put that look I'm not putting down the Army Navy Air Force I mean come on folks but I understand not everyone is blessed enough to be a Marine I understand that I understand that no but I did I joined the United States Marine Corps my dad and I my dad who just passed away three years ago was was in the Army and jumped at a perfectly good airplanes as he used to say and so I love my army brothers and such but I joined the Marine Corps and let me just tell you this now those years you didn't need a high school diploma you could just have a GED today that doesn't work but it did I went and took the test pass got in went back to school got a real high school diploma as I call it thanks be to God for that choice to join the Marine Corps since I will guarantee you I was able to go back to school get educated and save money through the veterans education Assistance Program which is phenomenal for school but most importantly I learned discipline let's just put it this I met a marine over here where's my marine friend you were over at there he is Semper Fi brother and he knows cuz he went to real boot camp in Parris Island South Carolina none of that Hollywood marine stuff for you and me amen yea yea Parris Island South Carolina let me let me just put it this way folks within two weeks at Parris Island South Carolina I had enough discipline for all of us they will put discipline in you in places you didn't think discipline would fit as my mom would tell you when she came to my graduation three months later she said to my father that's not our son what did they do with our son I'm walking up to my dad with straight back marching up to him calling him sir and it's like praise be to God I learned discipline in a hurry was able to go back to school as I said save money but even more important than all of that I got plugged into Assembly of God communities all across the country that I went to different duty stations did some time on ship on the USS Ranger it was a glorious time and I got so far I was evangelizing at every duty station in fact I could tell you stories till the cows come home as y'all that came to the QA last night you know we would still be there if they didn't force me out of there I don't know what time it was but brothers it was glorious I got involved everywhere I'm fired up I'm evangelizing Marines and sailing at one duty station in fact I had a bus ministry I took that one of those huge you know 16 seat vans and we would fill it up with Marines and sailors and take them to church and to Crusades and such man we were on fire and I love the Marine Corps but I couldn't wait to get out after my four-year tour because my goal was to be a minister I had it all planned out when I leave the Marine Corps I'm gonna get involved in ministry and get go ahead and get my credentials in the Assemblies of God I had it all lined up and and you know what the probably know by now what the ultimate goal was TV TV baby I had the hair oil I had it already it was like you heard of Jimmy Swaggart it was move over Jimmy here comes Timmy that's what I'm talking about but seriously I was so pumped up fired up about my faith everybody in my unit knew oh my gosh here comes staples he's gonna be talking about Jesus everybody but I'll tell you what happened guys cuz that's the introduction are you all ready for the talk now my last year in the Marines I got dream orders to Quantico Virginia now my hometown is Woodbridge I was raised in Falls Church but we later move down south to Woodbridge and if you know the area you may know the area being a Marine but you could throw a rock from Woodbridge and hit Quantico so I was so excited when I got these dream orders to Quantico Virginia because I was gonna be able to go back to my home community get plugged in I'm fired up I've been gone for three years I was already a leader when I by the time I left but when I go back I'm the old man so I'm writing everybody I'm telling my mom saying he's coming back this is exciting so I arrived at Quantico I go back to Christ Chapel assembly a God where it all happened amen and I'm so fired up dog Tim is back man I'm going through the roof replugged into every kind of ministry there is Wow but then what happened I was only there about two three maybe a month to three weeks maybe a month when this fella checked into my unit and his name some of you have heard was sergeant met doula now how many of you've heard my story before raise your hand real high all right how many you have not raise your hand real high where have you been all right let me introduce you to sergeant Matt doula and now everyone I hope you saw all their hands because they're all gonna buy it Jimmy Swaggart made me Catholic so get ready all right sergeant Mandell and the first day I meet him I reach out shake his hand Sartain doula and the first words out of mine are you a Christian you know and normally I didn't get the kind of response that I got normally it was real uncomfortable and this or that but he responded immediately and confident confidently he said yep I had my Bible in my left hand I shake his hand or you were Christian he goes yes I'm Christian I'm Catholic uh-huh I started drooling man because I forgot to tell y'all I felt a special calling to the Catholic Church I really did I felt like God was calling me to reach Catholic and by the way I still do but in a very different way back then it was I'm gonna get this boy saved and get him out of that dead dried up Catholic Church so it is a yes I'm Chris I'm Catholic oh my goodness we're talking within 30 seconds of our meeting we launched into our first argument an argument that lasted one year straight we did not pause to sleep I'm kidding that's a little bit of hyperbole but I will tell you what and I and I am joking we actually became friends of course we were Marines we worked out together we're in the same unit but man it was inevitable we would I mean and I'd love to tell you folks I really would I'd love to tell you oh we just shared with one another in Christian love and we just smiled thank you for sharing that verse that wouldn't exactly be accurate I mean there were times we almost came to blows in the name of Jesus of course and you know with Matt do let me tell you when his ears turned red that's when you knew he was pissed off and I had to tell you this too we had about four or five guys in our unit who were all evangelicals and Pentecostals and we would surround poor Matt Doolin y'all look him up I'm sure he'd be happy to show you his house and st. Charles just outside of Chicago he's gonna kill me but we are very dear friends now he's married with five kids by the way that's why I have seven I had to beat him at something anyway here's the point so within 30 seconds we go at it I mean we're just wow but I will tell you this brother yeah there were times when pride got in the way and please don't think I'm recommending going beating up a Protestant that's not what I'm saying but I will say this that man ministered to me in so many ways you know not only his knowledge which was exceptional but he loved Jesus I mean when he would talk about the passion of our Lord a tear would be in his eyes and it would make me mad because he didn't fit the stereotype these Catholics aren't Christians this guy he loves Jesus no it can't be real because he's Catholic you know with me but he loved Jesus and he yeah he got passionate let me tell you when you started talking about Mary you think you're talking about his mama cuz man he would tend to get angry and that blessed my socks off guys there was something real here but let me just share this with you first thing out of my mouth you could probably guess was that verse the scripture in fact I always used it from the time I learned it when I was 8 years old from pastor Foreman what was that verse again matthew 23:9 call no man on this or father you have one father is in heaven so I was ready when I met a Catholic that's the firt I mean I was quick on the draw baby matthew 23:9 and normally that's all you had to do with a Catholic right just quote the verse call no man on this earth father you have one father which is in heaven what do you call those guys with the funny collars on right and and the you know the Catholic response well why do you call these guys father when Jesus says don't do that and that would be about it that would be the depth of theology I would receive how could you at best I might here well the priest represents God and so he kind of represents God mm-hmm not exactly a picture of boldness right but Matt doula when I hit him with that I mean if somebody did that feeble response to me I'd say don't give me your tradition what does Jesus say I am NOT gonna follow you or some dude with a white beanie on his head I'm gonna follow Jesus and Jesus said no right I mean brothers I'm sorry I was not exactly nice to folk but it was because I loved Catholics and I believed with all of my heart the Catholic Church was leading people away from Jesus so please don't judge our fundamentalist brothers and sisters evangelicals who evangelize you and your kids and everybody else it's not because they hate Catholics it's because they love Jesus and they don't know many of them I and maybe I'm not as optimistic I'm a bit more pessimistic than Archbishop Fulton sheen but I think he was on to it something when he said there's not more than a hundred true anti Catholics I beg to differ on that one having worked in apologetics for 25 years but I will tell you this the overwhelming majority there is no doubt he is correct they do not hate the Catholic Church they are fighting a caricature folks and you and I need to get our butts up out of here and go tell people the truth because that's the way the gospel is propagated my friends they are not just going to come to the truth by osmosis it doesn't work that way and a lady at a conference I kid you not came up to me after oh god bless her heart she was so proud because she came in she said Tim you know what I I want to tell you this I had these folks come to my door the other day and man let me tell you you know the ones with the ties on and they're riding bicycles and they came up to my door and I opened that door and they started to talk their stuff and I said I am Catholic and I slammed that door right in their face and she say did I do good we need to talk okay man we need to talk my wife when she sees the dude riding by on a bicycle my wife will be eight months pregnant and she'll chase them down invite them to the house are you well we've got a big X over our house now they don't come anymore we have to go out and get them but here's the point folks I am so grateful to God for sergeant Matt doula because this is the first Catholic I had ever met who was ready willing and able to share his Catholic faith with me and little did he know in 1986 what he what he was beginning and folks I said this is the folks last night you never know who is sitting next to you in the pew that dude who comes to the door the dude in the grocery store whoever it is who may hate the church hate a caricature of the church if you just reach out you know you may be talking to the next Saint Francis of Assisi amen and this is what happened when I hit him with Matthew chapter 23 9 I was ready let me tell you that I was about to realize I was in over my head with this boy cuz his response was not like the responses I heard before he said Tim tuff we Catholics believe that first just like it's written but did you know he said but did you know there's more than one version the Bible oh yeah there's a little snark there I don't think that was helpful cuz he did and he had a little snark to him there's no doubt and that did you know get under my collar a little of course I know there's more Bible right and he said Tim you can take one verse of the Bible you can take make it say you all have ever heard the story right the guys struggling doesn't know which way to go I need direction of my life Lord I just don't know what to do and some brilliant theologian tells him get your Bible out let the pages fall open point to a verse and God will speak to you now I'm not recommending please that's not the way to be led by the Spirit but anyway so he's excited I'm gonna get direction for my life he lets his Bible pages fall over he points to a verse and it says and Judas went out and hanged himself oh oh maybe I should try something else anyway Tim you can make the Bible say anything you want to but he said Tim have you ever considered Ephesians 6 verses 1 and 2 and you know what he did is he took my he did something dastardly he took my Bible out of my hand and he beat me with it and now I mean that metaphorically of course but he did he said let me show you a few verses here in Ephesians chapter 6 wanted to y'all know st. Paul quotes the fourth commandment what's the fourth commandment honor your father and mother right Tim alright honor your what your father and mother I thought you said Jesus said call no man on this earth father well st. Paul does right here under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit is God confused him is God confused man I'm getting ticked I'm getting ticked but in my mind I'm God I am NOT gonna be out Bible by a Catholic so my response was you know I'm thinking on the fly here you gotta know I am not used to Catholics quote in the Bible at me I thought there was a law somewhere that says you know Canon sick six-six in the code of canon law thou shalt not quote thine Bible anathema oh the stuff anyway the bottom line is he quotes that verse to me and I'm having to think on the fly and I'm going okay all right but I take a step back and this was my response well okay all right a guy yeah I get it you can call your physical father father duck all right that yes okay but Jesus what he meant and matthew 23:9 is you don't call spiritual leaders father that's what he meant you don't call spiritual leaders father Matt didn't miss a beat it was spiritual leaders okay let's go to Luke 16 verse 24 Tim let me show you here in your Bible let me show you here in Luke 16 verse 24 what does Jesus call Abraham father Abraham he says Tim would you say Abraham is a spiritual leader you know what I said how did but that was the depth of my field of correspond I had no but he he he didn't have mercy on me well in a sense he did Amen because it's one of the seven spiritual works of mercy to educate the ignorant what he did he says Tim let's go to Romans chapter 4 verses 1 through 18 he says Tim seven times count'em Paul calls Abraham father Abraham seven times in 18 verses let's go to Acts chapter 7 verses 1 and 2 st. Stephen refers to the elders of Jerusalem surprised as fathers let's go to first John chapter 2 verse 13 st. John referring to the elders most likely writing at least immediately to the elders of evidence ephesus before it became a sort of universal letter he calls them what fathers exhorting them to teach their spiritual sons and daughters let's go to first Corinthians chapter 4 verses 14 and 15 where st. Paul says this you have ten thousand instructors in the Lord Jesus Christ you have not many fathers I have become your father for I've begotten you through the gospel obviously st. Paul didn't get your memo Tim and then he shared the verse that did me in was Ephesians 3:14 and I'm gonna quote from the Douay Rheims Confraternity edition that I believe gets closest to the Greek text here which says this for this cause I bend my knee before the Father of lights and by the way Saint Athanasius I'm getting ahead of myself here throw a little apologetics in here Saint Athanasius would say of this text there's a play on words here where he says giving thanks to the father Patera from whom all fatherhood pasa patria so I don't like the modern translations that say the whole family even though it can be translated that it's it really destroys the play on words that st. Athanasius talks about this is one example of an older translation actually being more accurate in my humble opinion anyway for this cause I bend my knee before the father of light from whom all fatherhood pasa patria so you got Patera patria a play on words I give thanks to the father of light from whom all fatherhood in heaven and on earth is derived or in Greek it uses it is takes its name literally gets its authority and guys it was like a light bulb went on you know I was the cartoon character where the light bulb goes in on over when he said this Tim the key here is you've got to understand the concept of participate co-write theosis says the Greeks call it right participation or as st. Paul says partaking in the divine nature participation see what Jesus condemned in matthew 23:9 was not calling someone father you the term potere with regard to a human being he could not have meant that because he if he did he contradicted himself and so did st. Luke and st. Paul and st. James and st. Stephen and we could throw in the Holy Spirit who inspired Scripture are y'all with me I was getting a Bible lesson from a Catholic and it was really disturbing but he says Tim the key is for this cause I bend my knee before the father of light from whom all fatherhood in heaven and earth is derived you see I am a father gentleman to my seven poop machines at home right now I am a father and as much as I participate in the Fatherhood of God through a sacrament a priest is a father in the truest sense of the term just as st. Paul was how he participates in the fatherhood have gone through a sacrament he is as Paul says the father of the Corinthians a priest as a father he baptizes brings newborn babies into the world and they can be 75 years old in their newborn babies amen any nurtures and nourishes them as his sons and daughters so oh my goodness folks I can't tell you what it meant now you may be thinking well what's the big deal you know call him and father well you know what it was a big deal to me because this was the first time in my life I had to acknowledge I was wrong and a Catholic was right but guess what I never told Matt I fought with him even when I knew I was wrong I would never give one inch baby I was Nancy Pelosi I'm telling you I oh I'm sorry we're not supposed to get political right here's the point folks I'm oh my gosh and this is what happened cuz I know I'm running out of time so here's what we're gonna do we're gonna fast forward here let me tell you in my mind I'm thinking okay the Catholics got lucky on one and that's not a big deal I called pre father right even a broken clock is Right twice a day some of you'll get that on the way home but we went to the next topic and let me tell you I went from topic to topic from statues to prayin to dead folks to salvation justification works sacraments Eucharist Real Presence purgatory indulgences the papacy oh and the Blessed Mother ah y'all come back this afternoon but let me tell you somethin this man rocked my world by the end of I wish we had more time we don't but I do have another talk by the end of one year with this man let me tell you something he had so rocked my world justification by faith alone was out the window y'all get the seed he said Jimmy sorry maybe I go through step by step the theological arguments and such that blew my mind great thing to give to your loved ones who have left the faith and they're going to Bob and peach Church of fun or wherever give them Jimmy Swaggart made me Catholic the CD version cuz I tell the story it's fun it's funny but I in apologetics all the way through it's three hours long anyway so I'm my gosh by the end of the year I'm thinking oh my lord Josefa age by faith alone was out the door I believed you could pray to Saints didn't do it but I believed you could I'm oh my lord I was so happy to get out of the Marine Corps I was not sold on the merry stuff that was the knock he didn't make much headway there he got me on Mother of God would that be it but I know but I'm thinking I'm losing my mind I'm becoming Catholic I'm even starting to seal to see the real presence of our Lord in the Eucharist and it's scaring the daylights out of me and I'm thinking oh my lord so when I got out of the Marines guys you gotta know this is what happened that year that I'm at Quantico I got plugged in as youth pastor at my local community so when I got out of the Marines in fact I had two different Assembly of God churches you got to know this they offered me a position right out of the Corps full-time benefits I'm gonna get paid and let me tell you something in the Assembly God they actually pay you to where you can make a living you know in the Catholic Church at the homes for the poor praise God for Catholic answers my friend no that's another story here's the bottom line folks I'm thinking I'm losing my mind because they asked me to become pastor and I accepted but they put me it made me a pastor for on a six-month basis the elders would watch me in ministry and then decide whether I was called and even though I didn't have any credentials ya see in the Assemblies of God you could be either a youth pastor or an associate pastor without credentials if you're elected by a local board of elders but then you had to earn your credentials before you could be a senior pastor y'all with me so the idea was I would go into ministry work part-time to earn my credentials and like I told you before I had it set up you've passed her get the credentials pastor and then what's next TV baby but what happened Matt doula happened he threw a wrench into everything and this is what happens so I become a youth pastor dream come true I'm in ministry they love me in fact six months later was unanimous the elders voted Tim you're a pastor I had to say no the hardest thing even to this day all these years later I'm telling you even when I say it to you right now there's still that pain because it was the hardest no I didn't want to say no but I did and I told my pastor Gary Jenkins a wonderful man he has since died of cancer giant of a man who was a great man my pastor and I poured my heart out to him and I'm telling him what I've discovered I'm reading the Fathers of the Church I'm reading the echod canons and decrees of ecumenical councils I'm pouring through Catholic books that was the best thing Matt Dula ever did for me folks through that whole year of arguing he gave me I'm telling you a stack of books about this high I still have them all I've read every single one of them highlighted them and such and I read them for one purpose to prove the Catholic Church wrong and that's why I'm Catholic but here's the point he gave me a stack cookbooks introduced me to the holiest priests who just died a few years ago father Ron Gillis and Opus Dei priest with a doctor of canon law and a PhD brilliant man holy but here's what happened I got a I got a shut up I can't believe the clock goes so fast but here it is so I turn it down I say no and I decided okay maybe I'm just I'm losing my mind it's the devil it's the devil hey I don't know why we had to say it that way devil I don't know but we did anyway it was I'm thinking I'm just deceived it's a lot of stuff but it's a devil I'm dizzy so I told Gary you know and I Pastor Gary and one of the elders okay there was Pastor Gary and elder Gary who I told and and elder Gary was a former cat oh that's a whole nother story but the bottom line is I said brothers this oh I'm discovering I remember Gary saying Tim st. Ignatius of what I've never heard of these guys this was a mega church you gotta see this a mega Assembly God Church he says Tim I I don't have time to go back to Bible College with you I just don't yeah I I don't know but I know this I believe in you and I believe you will get to the bottom of it and of course I said god bless you I wish he could have helped me a little more than that but he said god bless you Tim but you can't minister here you know you're you're see what was happening is my Catholic stuff kept slipping out I'd be preaching I was preaching a crusade one night at my home church with another Jimmy Swaggart by this quick story I mean in the middle of my sermon imagine a mega assembly god zillions of people and I'm preaching glory and then you you see these were not Catholic people they were smiling y'all you remember and there go on I mean we used to preach our first hour was the warm-up time then you get into your message and Here I am preaching it there go on brother preach it Catholic Church that's ten minutes ten minutes anyway go on brother preach it I kid you not I'm in the middle and I guess the Holy Spirit moved me and I preached against contraception it just came out I was just reading st. Agustin's commentary on Genesis you know the sin of Onan and I found out that all of our Protestant for fathers agreed until 1930 so I thought I would share and it went from Doris preach it brother took what did he just say so Pastor Gary said Tim it's really time to go you need to go and so I did and I went to Jimmy Swaggart Bible College and this is how we'll wrap things up here folks get the CD set cuz I'm not telling you the whole story here we don't have time but I'll end I know I've been in didn't for a while but I'm gonna end here I go to Jimmy Swaggart Bible College folks to try to save my Protestantism and that's where I became Catholic and that's why I called it Jimmy Swaggart made me Catholic because god bless him I love brother Swaggart met him met Francis met his son Donnie Donnie anyway love him to death but every class at Jimmy Swaggart Bible College somebody would say something against the Catholic Church and this amazing thing would happen my arm it's like it just had a mind of its own and it would just go up there it goes no I'm joking I would end up I'm arguing in class right no actually the Catholic Church isn't Pelagian it was Pope Innocent the 3rd that condemned Pelagianism just so you know and it was actually you should read Pope sosam as his successor that went into great depth he confirmed to councils of North Africa can get condemning pelagianism and then semi-pelagianism as well was condemned at the Council of Orange so professor you need to read the Council of Trent session six canon one yeah well folks can you met you don't do that at Jimmy Swaggart Bible College what ends up happening is I became real popular real quick people I'd be I would go to the lunchroom and people would be jumping in chairs all around me Tim we hear you know I'm not gonna be Catholic are you kidding it's the of Babylon but you know what they say about this is really good let me show you we had an impromptu Bible study in my dorm room every night we had the room filled and people throwing stuff at me I mean Bible verses I'm going to Jimmy Swaggart library we had the 38 volumes of the father's translated in English I'm reading those I'm reading all the books Matt gave me and I'm defending the Catholic Church not wanting to be Catholic and it all came to a head one night oh I wish we had more time we don't one night I got to tell you guys I I tell this story all right this is the last one come on because I'm I meant you gotta sit I mean I'm arguing with folks but in my heart I was dying because I didn't know I'm thinking is the devil still deceiving me I mean intellectually I was Catholic folks but in my heart I had so much prejudice you guys got to understand and this is why when we I emphasize when we evangelize we need friendship evangelization cuz it's not just about going and proclaiming the gospel and making our statement and they all sign up that's not the way it works I'm not against street evangelization I do it but my friends the ordinary way of propagating the faith is friend to friend - bye - amen the way Jesus sent them out and that's what we have to do because my friend it took so much had to come out of I had so much presence against the church the men I loved and respected and looked up to my father who I was this close to worshipping hated the church because he didn't understand it later became Catholic but that's in the seed he said my my pastors the folks I love the most so it wasn't going to come easy but you know what happened one night I had been arguing all day and I got to tell you arguing with students and defending the faith intellectually but I remember going to the prayer room at the dorm at Jimmy Swaggart Bible College I like v-shaped dorms and in the center of each level there was a prayer room and I went in that prayer room and I was crying real tears I'm on my knees and I'm crying and I'm saying Lord it looks to me like this Catholic stuff is real but am I being deceived is this the devil lord please help me and it was like the note nothing it wasn't until I left the prayer room I went back to my dorm room I collapsed on the bed I slid down to my knees and I looked up to the ceiling and for the first time in my life I prayed to a saint I prayed to mama and you know what's amazing I I knew by this time I had known for two years it was okay to pray to Saints but I had never done it you know there's a big difference between having a rosary hanging off your rear view mirror and actually pulling it down praying it did you all know there's a difference there's a big difference I knew but I'd never done it and I looked up to the ceiling and I remember saying mom I knew she was the mother of God I knew she was there for my mother Jesus is my brother in fact more I'm a member of his body you ever known a mom that's only a mother of the head of the baby of course she's my mom I'm but I said mom and immediately all the doubts and such you know are coming in my head and I don't even know if I'm doing this right so you know what I did I just talked to mom I said Mary I don't know if I'm doing this right and if I'm doing something wrong please forgive me but I said mom please help me help me and that's all I could say and I will tell you folks we don't walk by feelings we walk by faith and faith that it scores dry as a bone feelings may come and may go we walk by faith but I will tell you that day I felt and in my mind's eye I can see my mom in heaven walking over to Jesus maybe it's the marine in me okay but I see mama going over to Jesus and saying Jesus now you bless that boy right now that's enough that's enough okay mom pal and I felt it my goodness and I'm not painting Jesus as the bad guy we know any good and Mary comes from Jesus can you just bear with me for a minute I felt the presence of God come in to that dorm room when I prayed to mom and it was like the faith moved from my head to my heart that's why I tell my apologist man when the faith becomes a syllogism you need to put down the books put down your arguments go in the chapel and get in Jesus presence and ask him to forgive you for forgetting that he's a person amen and let him fill your heart with love for him and for people because my friends when the faith moved from my head to my heart I have never doubted the Catholic faith for one millisecond from that day forward god bless you [Music]

Channel: Salt & Light Radio

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Id: crKCduGKRVA

Length: 67min 23sec (4043 seconds)

Published: Fri Apr 05 2019