Journey Home - 2018-02-12 - Jennifer Kern

[Music] good evening and welcome to the journey home I'm Marcus Grodi your host for this program once again I have this wonderful opportunity the unibit Ian gives me has been given it to me for I think a lot longer than Mother Angelica had ever expected but to stand with you to hear stories of conversion dear the Holy Spirit works in the hearts and minds of people to open their heart to a deeper walk with Jesus Christ in a discovery the beauty of the church and for some of them it's the last thing they ever expected Mothe and but yet we discover that it's home and that's why we call this the journey home our guest tonight is Jenny Kern former Presbyterian PCA and nondenominational welcome Jenny so that too the journey home that was just noticing as I had to mention PCA because when you mentioned Presbyterian was a lot different Presbyterians they don't always get together in the same room together but it's because the uniqueness of it but welcome here thank you and let me get all the way and invite you to get us started on the church okay you'll hear that this was the instrument that God used to bring us our family so yes praise God I am so blessed I was born into a family both my parents were faithful people and are still our faithful people and uh so grew up going to church the youth group we went to Christian schools I have it's me and I have two younger brothers I'm the oldest of three and at a young age I think I was right around five years old I remember asking Jesus into my heart to be my personal Savior with my mom she prayed with me and shared that with me and I believed that that was I was born again I was a child of God I was young you know only five but I I remember doing that with her and it was about and I would say it's not just you believed that but that it really was real I mean we recognize that when a person has an awakening to Jesus Christ and is moved by faith to turn their life over that's you know and and that's grace that then awakens us to be opened we're still have freedom to respond but still there's that's Grace and grace of grace it's all great so and your parents - they're faithful so you were born into a family of grace yeah last it was about a year later that we our family moved to Orlando area from we were in Grand Rapids Michigan at the time when I said that prayer and we moved to Orlando area and my parents got involved in the PCA church the Presbyterian Church in America and they had never been a part of that church before is it okay so we were my brother and I we both had made professions of faith and we were baptized so I was about 6 I think when that happened and went to Sunday school you know went to Christian school and it wasn't until I was about 11 I think and I overheard a conversation between my parents and my aunt and uncle about the atonement of Christ and I heard them talking my my parents know Calvinist you know they've learned this or joined this church and they're passionate about what they've learned and my aunt and uncle who were from a Baptist Church and so they're having this discussion and I walked in and I hear this for the first time that you know my parents are saying that Jesus died for the elect my aunt and uncle are saying Jesus died for the whole world and I have always heard the whole world and so I was that was confusing but then interesting to me extremely interesting to me and so I think it was that Christmas my parents bought me a book on denominations because we'd pass a church and I'd say well what do they what do they believe and I was so interested so a very young age I was curious and I never I never asked the question why are there so many denominations I just I never thought about that but I was so anyway that was just very interesting to me and I wanted to pause there because not that we want to get too deeply into that argument on the issue of atonement because I'm a bit stale out on myself in the sense of to give a fair just a fair representation of of a five-point tulip Calvinists understanding that Christ's death was only for the elect whereas a good faithful Baptist or Methodist might recognize on Christ I had for everybody in him in the unique distinction there comes down to the freedom of the will to choose Christ's death for us right they would the Calvinists would say only the elect have that freedom and they didn't even choose it themselves they were chosen right right so Christ died for them which is why then the Calvinists ended up having to say that then the ones that Christ didn't die for for were chosen to be outside right and did not whereas the other would say no Christ died for all and then we have this freedom to respond still grace right yes and at that age I didn't I didn't I couldn't concede all of that but it was just very curious to me and I think I was in high school and my parents invited me to their adult Bible Sunday school class because they were studying the five points and they knew that I was curious and so I went and learned more specifically what you're talking about you know the tea that the tulip acronym and hook line & sinker I just I just held on to that I felt so chosen special I knew that I had been saved I'd said the prayer I was saved as baptized even though that didn't enter into my salvation thought process at the time the baptism part but that and my world was really with other Christians I'm at a Christian school and so I didn't ever dwell on the opposite side of that coin that then there's well then there's those who wants a burnt Jesus didn't die for so I didn't go there I didn't think that way so it's just interesting and and went on my merry way and really well that's really my identity as a Christian was I'm Calvinist and I I didn't really realize that till later on but that's how I filtered every when I would go to different churches I would filter the sermon through this you know won't that that pastor doesn't believe what I do they they just they haven't arrived yet I mean it was that almost that kind of spiritual pride that this man who's been to seminary is wrong literally and I would sit there and anyway and so that's that's interesting as you said you really didn't delve into push it the envelope - what about those outside of the alack yeah because then you would have been pushed to wonder what was that guy up there in that pulpit who doesn't seem to believe what I do well he must not be one of the elect yeah I never won I'm saying that's what you're forced to eventually go or to be protected within your own community and don't think about the outside just us there's just us yeah yeah so I mean to the point where well yeah I went you know through high school and college I I never lost my faith and never questioned my faith but I wasn't a little faithful going to church and things like you know sometimes I would I wasn't really active in anything I met my husband in college and he grew up in a Christian Church Congregational Church action and believed in Jesus but he had never heard of what I was talking about on we just kind of stayed away from those things and ended up engaged and married and so funny because of how important this just underscores how important how content in home convicted I was in this position the only thing I wanted to carry down the aisle was too much so that just it was just it was that and it it was that I felt so special that's really where I developed with that but I just felt very special to God anyway but we didn't attend a PC Church who actually ended up went to the Baptist Church then eventually in a free Church wonderful people in both churches we've got a lot of wonderful people and then we moved a little further out west we were in the Chicagoland area actually and started attending a large nondenominational church and everything was fine you know we were enjoying the church it was it was being a seekers type church there wasn't a lot of it seemed like a simple message but we love the worship we loved the groups that were there and we got involved and so that was a good place for us for the time my husband had been Scott had been in law enforcement and lots of circumstances led to him realizing he was ready to move on to something else and so we started looking he wanted to go into counseling the Lord had really started growing this passionate heart and him to help people as he'd seen so much so much brokenness and it's a beautiful thing and so if you started looking at seminaries for because he wanted to go to a seminary program for counseling and decided to choose the one close to my family in Orlando which is Reformed Theological Sunday so I'm thinking wow you know God's gonna answer my prayer and my husband's gonna leave there a countess because that was still very important to me and God is funny how he that's not what happened and I do want to mention that for so from the time I'm about 14 till probably 20 years in the 20 years later I never I never questioned I never thought about what we said you know that the other side of that claim and there was a there was a neighbor in her neighborhood who was dying and he would drive up in the car because he wasn't he just couldn't move around very much but he was very neighborly and he'd Drive up and I want to talk to Monday and he mentioned that he was close to the end he's telling me this and I just felt this intense burden to share Jesus with or to find out where he was you know and I asked him I said John do you do you know Jesus and he do you believe in Jesus and he he kind of you know maybe maybe God exists I don't know I don't know and just kind of change the subject well I'm thinking if he knew Jesus he would have said something you know he would have said he did and so I felt a lot of pressure and out bird and I wanted to I felt like why need to pray with him and this wasn't my I wasn't much of I'm not an evangelical type you know I want to evangelize my faith I always wanted to be if I'm just a little bold that way and so but I said well could I come pray with you even married sometime you know and oh sure you don't give her a call and that was that and just a few days later I went into the hospital and he and he passed away and I never had a chance to pray with him learn to talk with him well that was very hard for me to understand because I'm thinking that was that burden was from the Holy Spirit and yet and this is obviously presumably he didn't have a deathbed of conversion but I mean as far as I could tell in my way she seemed to not have her you know he seemed to die in his sins well how how could it be that I would desire him to be in heaven and Jesus wouldn't and I had never and that sounds kind of harsh but that's where I was and I called a friend of mine who was we've done some youth work together and he was also you know performed and believed the way I did and I asked him he was on his way to seminary and I asked him about it and he said you know he said how dare we everything for more compassion that God is and so I took that and I was humbled by that and what I didn't even realize I was doing that and I I was sorry I felt like kind of rebuked I was thankful but I I just it was troubling for me but after he said that I you know we were busy getting ready to move and I just tell him to Florida and I just kind of dismissed it that was a huge in that she was gonna say and again as I mentioned earlier I've been out of the Presbyterian stream for many years now so I don't want to misrepresent but I do remember that the Presbyterians especially districts Presbyterians struggled with that very issue in many ways one of the ways was it took him a long time to become missionaries hmm they were not a Missionary Society until I can't think of the guy who father did missions and maybe the 18th century because it was this very issue is you know if God doesn't care for them or if God wants them to be saved he'll do it but but what but I but I feel the power tell them the gospel but they're not of the elect so it's exactly the struggle you were in and this idea of you being more compassionate than then you can't be more compassion than guys that's a wonderful statement but then it doesn't answer the question well then if God is so compassionate the why is he chosen me and not those folks why did he die for me and not them and part of that vet that issue and Presbyterianism was to to honor the sovereignty of God that God is all-powerful and we're totally depraved that's number one of the tulip Travie T so I can't choose God he's got to choose me chose me for the beginning of the world what about those what well he must not have in some limited atonement as the knell but you also have this perseverance of the saints so in the midst of it there you are you're confirmed God died for you God loved you and he saved you and nothing to do with you and it's really affirming and so you could be happy with this and not think about those people over there right right but you said it aside I did that's where I was and so we we moved to Florida Scott began the counseling program at the seminary and we had that another baby was born to us that first year so we had to now and things were good it was it was a bit of an adjustment coming back to to my home because I had we'd been away for so long I'd been away and so to come home as a wife and a mother and a lot of extended family and so there was a lot of adjusting just in relationships and boundaries and those kinds of things and so I started a little bit with that and thankfully one night as my husband Scott and I were praying about some of these issues it was like it was like the Holy Spirit opened up this door in my soul and showed me some really ugly pride in a closet that was just you know just this is ugly and it was humbled and I began to pray Lord root out the pride in my heart not the pride in my heart it's ugly I want it out of there and I'm a lot of pride in there and also about the same time started praying probably from you know sermons that I had heard and women's groups and all different things just this discharged to seek the Lord know him for who he is not who we think he is not who we want him to be but seek him for who he is and so I really earnestly started to pray that way and the verse that I would pray I've memorized it it's from Psalm 25 verse 4 and 5 and it's NIV version show me your ways o Lord teach me your paths guide me in your truth and teach me for you are God my Savior and my hope is in you all day long and I began to pray that he would show me his truth show me his ways and I had no idea I was not like I said I was very content and my faith I was I felt like I was had arrived I was there and I'm probably not expecting that he would do anything other than where you're at exactly and Oh his mercy so February 2014 I don't remember the exact night but I was just a normal night the kids were in bed I was relaxed on the couch watching sitcom reruns on Netflix folding laundry and the show that I used to love to watch came on and the episode the family in the in the show is Catholic supposedly and so they're making comments are talking about the mass and somebody didn't go to Mass and so somebody in the family saying you're going to go to hell and so I'm hearing this just kind of half-heartedly and it was just like it's not Hollywood embellishment or is that really what they believe and just curious and I was so comfortable had the computer not been right beside me on the couch I would not have gotten up to get it but I grabbed it and did a search and came across Catholic Answers and the very first screen that came up was common misconceptions in the Catholic faith and I all these questions grabbed me and why do they worship idols and why do they pray to Mary and why do they the Saints are dead why are you talking to Saints all these questions that I didn't know I really had I never was the Catholic Church at all endurance gods life up until this point well I think Scott was more he had a lot more Catholic friends growing up I really didn't I had some my focus was more between the denominator between the Protestant down you know I was focused on who believes what and the Catholic Church was just kind of across a divide I didn't I believe that there could be elect and the Catholic Church you know Jesus that could happen maybe but I never really thought about it I never it was just an immature I guess kind of perspective I went to private schools where we focused a lot on the Reformation and so that was really my grounding I never thought about anything before that you know a lot of people think that when the pilgrims came to this country they were escaping Catholicism no no they were escaping high church Anglicanism because they wanted independent Protestantism sidon it to be interesting that really from then on the battle amongst Protestants was not against the Catholic Church it was amongst themselves exactly what you're talking about Methodists Presbyterians biscuit aliens Lutheran's Pentecostals sure that's what you're thinking is not those Catholics they're out there and you know so anyway I did this I'm reading these things and just grabbed grabbed I mean I couldn't believe it was Tim staples never heard of Tim staples didn't know who he was but he's answering like for instance you know why why do Catholics bow down and worship idols you know statues and images and his response was no no no no worship is forgot alone we adore God alone there's no created no created thing that we worship that these beautiful art pieces and images and statues point our hearts to the Lord much like this was awesome much like you know we carry pictures around of people in our families and we don't when we have them on our walls if you don't that's not the person that we're not we're not that's that represents the person we don't worship them we think of them it makes us think of them and wonder how they're doing and well that made so much sense to me and again I'm not I'm not looking I'm not curious because I want to become a Catholic this was just oh this is this is cool thing to read right now as I'm just sitting on the couch well it really grabbed me and I would just became really interested and I'm reading several more of these things and a couple nights later I thought I read who Tim staples that he had because I couldn't leave this that he had been a Protestant minister and had come to the Catholic Church I mean hold the phone I had never heard of that I never heard of that and so I thought what and so I did more searching on him and came across video clips one of them was from the journey home show and I think it's about a 20 minute clip I've watched it several times even since then cuz it's so amazing where he does it's on I'm pretty sure it's called Mary the new Eve was the clip name and he talks it was he just walked through the Marian and I hadn't even touched Mary yet on my reading I know there was no reason to it blew me away the the way he was describing the way he was bringing the scriptures and showing Mary in the scriptures from the old and the new testament in this picture of you know of Mary in the Old Testament in hushed I watched it several times when my husband came home from his clinical hours at the clinic that night he walked in and I said oh hi need you you've got a witness with me I need you to watch this with me and he did and so that just kind of blew open this whole I was just it was Wonder Man anything about nothing like this and it made the scriptures feel like 3d to me and I just I felt it was you know the verse I think it's in Romans where Paul says oh the marvelous riches of God you know this I was wondering and awestruck by the beauty of his word and the amazing grace part of all this is here I am just kind of dabbling and starting to be curious the exact same time the lord's don't work in my husband he's in seminary to become a counselor but he had to take biblical studies type courses knees taking church history and he was learning about denominations and he's a very smart analytical kind of man so he's he's learning this and starting to ask questions not with me this not with me bit more just kind of on his own and so as we start to kind of talk that starts to kind of come out and Wow grace that God would would do that and so now we're separately separately separately in different ways you know I'm more emotional and I do like to learn I mean I loved I loved to learn about what the church is what the Church teaches and so I think that definitely that night where I watched about Mary just I was like it was like being so hungry coming to a feast I'm just I just want more and I didn't have time and I'm running that she's on the kids all day so it was really nap time and after they went to bed and I was so curious about your show so I'm reading about you and your bio and another minister that left the Protestant I just couldn't believe it so I'm watching all these conversion stories and and this is just going on and on and I'm so curious and it's starting to feel more uncomfortable at the church and we were just like a mega type nondenominational church and you know it's funny that you'll you'll say that it was Tim staples or Catholic Answers or the journey home program that really got you started on that or the cracks me up no it wasn't it was this secular television show that like family that you were watching and from your kind of protected PC a tulip I don't know if you were even thinking theological about those Catholics on that program you were just enjoying the program but you were thinking that no these are those people that are outside this bubble mm-hmm but the Lord used that to awaken you to wait a second why do I believe about those folks yeah even that awakening anti-catholic presumptions in you that you really hadn't thought about but they're part of the the soup we live in and again our culture that has nobody in their right mind would be Catholic and certainly no Protestant minister would ever conceive of becoming countless all right so why don't we pause there Jenny Jenny currents are is our guest and we'll come back in a moment we'll pick up on where both your husband at you are moving at the journey of parallel yeah trips oh by the work great [Music] [Music] welcome back to the journey home I'm Marcus Grodi your your host and our guest is jenny kern former Presbyterian PCA and nondenominational might I paused you in the midst of your journey where as you recognize both you and your husband are being drawn along that sounds like you have a real you as a result of Catholic Answers and and the TV show you're watching that you had an awakening to Catholic things your husband was being aware of the denominational craziness but what was it it was was the drawing Catholic guitar just seeing the craziness of denomination we think he probably a little bit of both I think he you know learning the history of the church you know because the focus for us mostly in the proximate world is kind of his Reformation and then on its then to start to learn the beginning that this is where everything began now this is not coming from a Catholic perspective at this seminary and yet God used and he would listen to things I was you know showing him and because he was curious but it was just it was a different you know he was very busy he was at school all the time and work in and so we didn't have a lot of time but um he never he never cautioned me or slowed me down and I would pray I continued to pray this prayer from Psalm 25 you know show me your ways o Lord every day and I would tell the Lord if I'm doing something wrong if I shouldn't be going here stop me and I just trusted him and I'll never forget there was one night that I was it was late at night and I just really felt like you know what I want to I want to pray the rosary and the word dead come from was it made a comment in Catholic answer the show your show i watch yes I watched journey home all the time and so many people it was so refreshing to hear other people with the similar hang-ups or questions and I'm hearing how they worked through it and so many people talked about the rosary and someone mentioned a scriptural rosary well that sounded a little bit more out of the safe to me so I just googled it I'm safe it's night everybody's asleep at me or my little laptop and I googled description rosary and it came with a beautiful place - I found this online and I didn't know the prayers yet I didn't you know and I did I did say Lord I don't offend you I I'm trusting you I'm learning - I'm learning to love your mother so if I if this offends you stop me and then I just said to Mary I said Mary take my hand and bring me to Jesus bring me closer to Jesus I know that's what you do and I just started was a Tuesday night so it was sorrowful mysteries and I started of course with the agony in the garden and this is scourging of the pillar and the crown of thorns and caring of the cross and the crucifixion and I started and with the agony and as I began to pray and I'm you know looking at my computer screen because I'm having to figure out the prayers but Marcus it was as if I was there I was seeing Jesus suffering in this garden and I wasn't alone Mary was beside me I think or felt that way but what struck me was I mean I've considered Jesus in the garden before I've seen pictures I mean my whole life but what was different was this intense this this is humanity he was he was God and man and here he is suffering and his mother is suffering knowing what he's you know she's suffering and all I could think about was my son who's in the crib in the room beside me a year-and-a-half old sleeping and I'm thinking about I'm just in this I'm caught up in this place as a maternal you know concern and I'm looking at my Savior oh I was undone and I I got somehow I got through the whole five mysteries just just moved never the same I could never and so it was such a beautiful piece in my soul that I hadn't moved away from Christ I'd moved closer to him and that that that was huge I mean that was a big step because now I've done something that's kind of taboo and you know kind of scary and but I had done that and that only aided me and my as I'm walking forward here there was something you mentioned that started this before the rosary that would have been so unlike a PCEHR as you asked Mary you don't talk to dead people no you know but you were asking her for her help you were praying the communion of sage you weren't igniting the communion of saints in a way that a Presbyterian would not have affirmed so grace was already working you before you did that rosary but but open the door for that Rosa absolutely oh I remember when I learned about the communion of saints and it was before the rosary you're right and I remember learn I think of his Catholic answers one of those misconceptions and it was Tim staples I believe that was the apologist and he explained it so well he said the saints in heaven are part of their bought through the body part of the body of Christ and we the Faisel and earth are part of the body of Christ and the body of Christ is not divided and that was like of course so yes they've passed on but Jesus took care of death I mean he's conquered death and now they're there in him and so it just it made sense to me that you know we're not they're not they're not the ones answering the prayers we turn to them for help much like hey you know my friend we pray for me I have a test tomorrow my mom is sick will you pray for her I've never had a friend say just go to Jesus why don't why are you asking me can't you just ask Jesus well of course I can but how he's sharing with us it's his he's sharing his family well that that was beautiful to me that was one of those first things that I came across it was it was wonderment again it was just beautiful and it brought such such it just fit it felt it felt real and solid and true and so I didn't I didn't have a problem with that so you're right I did I did feel okay asking Mary to bring me to Jesus and um shortly after that I was curious still about things and I'm learning I wonder what's different what solution Anglicanism and Catholicism I learned about the Ordinariate I've never heard of this come to find out there's an ordinary at parish close to about a half an hour from our home and the priest there had gone had been a police officer with my husband had gone to RTS and had been an Orthodox Presbyterian minister had moved into the Anglican Church kind of on his way and came in through the Ordinariate and it was a chaplain which my husband Scott was kind of thinking about you know after his counseling school was done he was thinking how could he move and he wanted to serve police and anyway so all this was I remember running to him I think you have to hear this you have to hear about this priest so we emailed him we met with him and you know we walked through the door and Scott says we want to hear you know my wife really wants to hear your journey your journey to the Catholic Church yeah so I got you know I got this wonderful I mean it was wonderful and he he mentioned something about it was really funny he said something about the Rosary or maybe I said something about praying the rosary and he said you're praying the rosary I guess and he said oh it's a matter of time so funny but he was just three patient he listened he was very excited to share his journey and he was so patient and listened and so we left that you know meeting and which is kind of still curious and that was the summer of 2014 it was it was like a year later so we're still kind of just dabbling we've even started trying to go to Mass sometimes but the problem or the hang one of the big hang-ups for us was more cultural because we had little kids we were used to the big mega church with this wonderful children's program where we dropped the kids off at Disney World you know and come back and pick him up and and they you know and so we were used to that and a lot of these parishes have their you know maybe a nursery but lost a lot of the times there was no workers or and so we're having to learn you know we had two little ones and one on the way at the time and that was kind of a challenge you know and so it was frustrating for us and so we were kind of back and forth but with that said by the following summer I was getting pretty Restless I felt like okay I I know that's the truth I know that's Jesus I'd been adoration I gone to daily Mass I'd gone to mass it's like the digital NASA on Saturday night so it was a family on Sunday to the Protestant church and soffits I was wanting to be there and it was just feeling a steaming Restless but at the same time I I knew that Scott was on we were just we were both walking towards the same and just kind of different ways and so I really felt from the Holy Spirit I believed that you know to submit to him if he's art he can lead us there and I need it to be patient and I needed not to do not to be pushy and I didn't want to be pushy and anyway so that was kind of playing well there was one day in July I remember and I was just I was just crying out to the Lord I'm like when's this gonna happen how is it going to happen and just kind of wanting to know it's all going to turn out and I was reading in the Psalms and the 23rd psalm verse 3 I think it says something like if you lead me along the right path for your name's sake and that jumped out at me I've read that some I've memorized that son but it was this feeling of that it was up to me to figure out kind of come to get to the bottom of things and you know that Jesus was kind of waiting on me you know like I was kind of not moving fast enough or we something I'd was just a lot of Russell sense and anxiety and he was like saying hold on a minute I'm your Shepherd you can trust me this is because of me you know and it was I could exhale it was just this beautiful moment of peace and and a couple days later my house got said to me he said you know he said I think we just need to go back to the nondenominational church for a while and it was like I knew in that moment God had got me ready for that and so I didn't push I said okay and I laid it down I thought I'm gonna pray about this and I'm gonna trust there's a verse in Colossians I think it's Colossians 4 3 and it says devote yourselves to prayer being watchful and thankful and I love that because I love the idea of praying in anticipation and trusting God to do something I knew that he was leading us so that was July our son was born in September our second son a week after his birth again we're still going in the non-dimensional church we're just kind of dealing with our frustration there and Scott said you know I emailed the same priest father holiday is our priest at the ordinary with the periodic parish there he said I email dipping out I really want to go talk and so I'm trying to be poker-faced you know but on the inside I'm I am doing the happy dance because I thought okay I was like two months like that's pretty good and so on we wouldn't talk to him again and we have you know a whole year later now if we've worked through so many things and he just listened and he said wow you know he said what's what's going on what's keeping you from kind of crushing crossing that threshold and it was really just kind of that the whole our families think and how does this really cap in and is this it was really just kind of that as far as theological II and we were feeling drawn so he just kind of kept it he was just patient he prayed for us and we started and he didn't you to tell us at that point he said he said I want to advise you he said if you're really wanting to move forward I start going back to mass stop going to the Protestant Church let's let's stay let's go to Mass you know and he didn't push this to come to his mass it was about a half an hour away from our home so we started going to some local parishes and eventually one morning one Sunday morning Scott says you know I really want to go to father Doc's church so we did and we fell in love with it and and it was that was in the fall by Christmas time maybe January we met with him again and just with some more follow-up stuff I mean really just hammering out this wrote this question came up you know one of mine one of my big ones that I struggled with I don't think this late in the game but at some point was baptismal regeneration rabbit you know my mind I was getting ready to ask you at some point the one thing you had to deal with was a difference in sacraments between the Presbyterian denomination 'el Baptist catholic baptism catholic confirmation catholic eucharist catholic marriage mm-hmm it makes a difference because something changes yes wondering how you dealt with it yes it was for some reason baptism gave me a hard time and i just kept praying about it and it was actually one of the one of the books I read was Devon rose as Protestants dilemma and there was a question and it was a symbol the way he said it was something like baptisms not something we do for God it's what he does for us and that for some reason that just clicked that day and so yes sacraments oh my goodness the the Incarnation reality that matter matters I've heard that on your show that matter matters that God knows our frame you can't stay away from us if he uses what he's created to impart grace to us is just one of the beautiful mysteries that oh just just overtook me and so as I began to really meditate on those things and think about those things that just drew me and the more I prayed the rosary the more I wanted Jesus in the Eucharist and it was just it was just this gentle but but sure it was a sure footing there was never a moment where I felt like in fact I remember the moment when I realized okay this is what I believed and this is what I'm coming to believe and they don't they don't hold up they're not the same I can't have both there's one that's true there's one truth and I remember standing there I remember where I was in my house and thinking I feel I feel like he's just shaking the you know he's shaking the the foundation but he showed me ever so gently the pride the spiritual pride in my heart as I'd ask him to prove the pride out but I kind of had him figured out see he fit he fit into this acronym and I'm not saying that for every five point calmness that was me I can only speak from my perspective so I mean no harm but he showed that to me and it was it was kind of scary and it was humbling and so praise God so then the very last thing was God parents what do we do we don't have family members that are Catholic the few Catholics we know really are they practicing we don't really know and I really wanted another convert family I wanted I wanted my children to have that it need be to have that perspective and God and His mercy provided us an amazing family through amazing means and so we were able to come into the church oh this is awesome so it's the Jubilee year of mercy on Divine Mercy Sunday on April 3rd 2016 we came in the whole family we didn't come in at Easter he came in the we yes and I don't remember why now it was kind of I don't remember why but it was really neat and so what a journey and and since we've been Catholic the the understanding or the being drawn to the to Jesus and the Eucharist and in the sacrament only it's only gotten sweeter and it's deepen and it's become it's become so much it's not so much mental anymore it's the fabric of you know we talked about it with our children and we're teaching them these things and they're just they're just eating it up and they're learning and and going being able to go and spend time with Jesus and adoration well that was that was kind of that's the Thorin that's a foreign concept and at the beginning before I was even Catholic I would go because I thought I kind of have to I got to push myself a little bit and see this and understand this oh my goodness and so to be able to go and spend time with him and there was a there was a time when I think was about a year ago so we were already Catholic and I and there's a church close to us that I was having this exposition and you know we could go and adore Jesus there and I really wanted to go the kids are in bed my husband was home because he was sick and I just really wanted to go and I was on my way out the door and it was like it was like Jesus stopped me and he said I know you want to go I know you want to come but your husband really needs you and he showed me that this is where this is where it you know it's putting that it's putting it's believing and then it's where it's where the faith meets the world you know it's where it's we're working all that out and and serving Christ in my husband what a concept I mean and that's not necessarily just Catholic but but in that in that place of I was frustrated because I just want to go I never get to go I want to go I was feeling entitled and he just so gently stopped me said oh I know your heart that serve your husband you know the we've said it so many times in the journey on program then it's not like it came from us or anything but that one of the problems in the Protestant world is this it's almost more of a philosophy than a theology it is this either or either either/or and that's why you got caught up in the tulip thing it's either or sovereignty of God or freedom of man or either or either or the Catholicism is always from the beginning recognized the beauty of the mystery of the both hand it's beyond us God is fully sovereign but somehow in them his mystery of his love and His mercy he's also given us full freedom it's a both end so the that's also in Protestantism led to sometimes it being a faith that's all mental it's all inside emphasizing the divinity of Christ but not often preciate in the physicality right humanity it's a both/and and so worship it's both ham and and there's the beauty it's the mystery of it and you stand in awe I don't understand it all but it's the beauty and sometimes it's hard to make that connection except by grace and that's why I think the advice of that pastor start going to mass again enabled you to be close to the grace that opened that window yes that's so true I even even they're into what you were saying yeah I want to go there because I've appreciated being there but wait a second your husband it's the both and you know this Christ this is the service of crisis the uniqueness of Christ you're there too in serving your family yes and along those same lines and there's been times where I've you know I'm trying to pray you know my kids are needing my attention this one time and I'm getting I get frustrated which is you know it's horrible here I'm trying to pray I'm getting irritated right so much to learn and one of my kids needed have gotten dirty and they did a bath or something and so I okay so I'll just have to come back to my prayer time later and I we went into the bathtub and as I was starting to wash him it was it was just like Jesus it was so precious he said something like you're serving me when you do this for the least of these you're doing this for me and this is your prayer this is what it's about it's not just it's beautiful to us of course sit and be with him and be quiet and to read the scriptures and to learn but there's also being interrupted and how do I deal with that am i gracious and this am i see me as an opportunity to serve my my little boy you know and so it's just so many humbling and confession confession I I have come to just appreciate and love how confession what an amazing grace to us the grace is there to help us break some of those patterns and to come and have to admit and say I've done it again I've done again and to have and that was you know of course growing up hearing oh you have to be you know the Catholics have to go to some man to you know have their sins forgiven and now no understanding no no no no God in His mercy because of my frame and my humanity has given me a gift in a priest to be a conduit of His grace Jesus is forgetting me through the priest and he uses his priests and that he just can't stay away from me you know he wants to be with us God with us right and you know the Protestants sometimes you ask God for forgiveness but it's all mental it's just that it's where we have the beauty of the both and we which in the end I think draws us back I think of as a Gustin that said the three most important things are humility humility and humility even accepting all the stuff that's in the Catholic Church that takes a while to understand I mean your new Catholic right but it helps us recognize our called to be humble before God yes what was that first again that you remember eyes that was so poor Psalm 25 yeah did you find that room filled yeah and I was so blessed to be able to go you have retreats and just this fall come home network a coming home network yes house has the retreats for people in their journey or new new Catholics whatever and just to be with other people and to share these wonderful experiences I mean it's just what a wonderful ministry to be a part of that has been wonderful I look forward to many more I want to go again they were the coming home network started and as well as the retreats as we recognize that often people on the journey feel very much alone who do you talk to mm-hmm you can't talk to your non Catholic friends about your journey from whatever reason and then you don't know very many Catholics and some Catholics don't know their faith very well so where you're stuck and that retreats yes the network is due to give you companions along the jury exactly exactly and that was helpful because even in our families you know they they want to support us they love us that they don't understand you know and we we want to share with them my daughter is always wanting to share you know she wants to I want them to understand Jesus in the Eucharist and she she's so precious she writes them letters and she's oh it's beautiful but it's it's coming up against that you know how do we have these conversations well as you mention one of the last issues for you barrier was will how my family and friends when talking to other converts you can understand how they dealt with that and you know how well it worked out so we have an email Kirk from Idaho writes can Jenny speak a little to the difference in spirituality she has encountered coming from her background as a presbyterian and then now as a Catholic in what ways have the spiritual treasures of the Catholic Church in regeni x' faith life oh that's a great question um oh my word so as a Protestant you know I loved going to church I loved being in Bible studies I loved reading my Bible and praying and those were all wonderful things wonderful things and I am so thankful so thankful that I'm I became introduced to Jesus that way coming into the Catholic Church and even just on my journey as I started to learn about what does it mean liturgy learning about the liturgy learning about like the divine the office the office of readings and then the Divine Office the prayers I was so drawn in the rosary and more recently learning about the Saints turning to the Saints and learning from them has been amazing to hear their stories and to see how how they dealt with certain things that came up at their lives just being able to go like I said to adoration and be with Christ it's funny the first couple times I went I didn't know what I was doing and I would leave there thinking did I do it wrong I thought what am I supposed to do oh it's just beautiful to go and that's part of it too is letting him teach us how to be with him and how to and he you know he's there we can sit with him we can read with him we can pray we can it's just being with Jesus like in a in you know being with someone we love and oh and the peace that comes being able to go to Mass every day if I can I mean to go and be with him and receive the sacraments to avail myself of those graces that that just are not in the Protestant world and they they just don't I feel like if they knew if they knew they'd be there it's it's grace and so I just pray for God's grace themselves and there's been a constant stream throughout the history of the Catholic Church beginning with Paul when he wrote in his letters this is the way we're supposed to be by grace but I haven't arrived yet Paul says I've not been made perfect yet I've got a long way to go so the spirituality began with this admission of great humble men and women who've surrendered by grace to Christ but recognized by the same reason that I've got a long way to grow yes the whole history of the Saints are people not prideful but recognizing but by the grace of God I'd be up there right email Janet in Phoenix writes I get so frustrated when Catholics pray the rosary I have in-laws who are Catholic and they just seem to mindlessly mumble the prayers this isn't a living dynamic relationship with Jesus why do Catholics bother why don't they just pray from the heart directly to Jesus wow that's that's a really good question absolutely absolutely what why would anybody pick up it just didn't none of it made sense and the first time I tried it I had I had to overcome that and it took time to number one just to learn the prayers it's kind of a but when we the Hail Mary in and of itself is Scripture its scriptural you know hail Mary full of grace that was from the gate from Gabriel the angel blessed are you among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb that is from Elizabeth when she goes to be with Elizabeth after she after you know the angel is not with her and you know then at the end asking her to pray for us as we've talked about you know the the Saints we know they're praying for us it tells us in Hebrews that we have a cloud of witnesses and it James it talks about you know that we you know the righteous the prey or the right to surveil a--the much and so we know that the righteous in heaven are praying for us so that helped me to understand that it's not some made-up saying it's it's praying Scripture I mean then of course understanding what the communion of things is helped with beef like you pointed out before I even prayed that rosary had to understand that but the rosary it's the meditations are on almost I mean almost all of them 100% are about in the life of Jesus Christ there it's about him and so it doesn't it's hard to explain because it seems like just this rattling off this this thing but there's something about there's something about it gets our it gets our it gets us there you know we're not our mind isn't wander and it can wander but that's the best I can do is just just to trust and to try and and to see that the prayers are from Scripture I was thinking that you know it would be easy it caught up in doctrine you know tulip doctrines the rosary gets us back to Jesus yeah it focuses on Christ's life in Our Lady with them and the Apostles with them and we're in the midst that's what it does and it's recommended every day have this intimate walk with Christ yeah that's the encouragement of the church Jenny thank you so much for sharing your journey on the journey home we ask God's blessings on you and Scott and your families okay somebody's still discovering that's thank you and thank you for joining us on this episode of the journey home I do pray that Jenny's journey is encouragement to you god bless you see you next week [Music]

Channel: EWTN

Views: 28,425

Rating: 4.8988762 out of 5

Keywords: JHT, JHT01603

Id: dSWAblVK04I

Length: 56min 10sec (3370 seconds)

Published: Mon Feb 12 2018