WBC18 Tim Staples Opening Talk

thank you so much it is absolutely wonderful to be back in Australia this is my fifth trip to Australia and I absolutely love it tonight the talk is the answer is Catholic and I'm going to approach this and what I hope you will think is an interesting sort of way I was raised a Southern Baptist and I later became a minister in an assembly of God community and in those years you know how do you even put it into words from the time I was eight nine ten years old I thought Catholics were nuts I mean nuts and that that would be a positive thing you know at worst the Catholic Church was the of Babylon of revelation 17 right it's Satan's greatest masterpiece and you know even as a kid as I said eight nine ten years old I remember thinking how could anybody who has a brain that works how could they be Catholic when you have such point for example Matthew chapter 23 verse 9 right and in the Bible says call no man on this earth father you have one father which is in heaven and yet what do you call this this knucklehead back there in there no hey you know what no no I he reminds me I have to call him father knucklehead that's right so what do you call him father I mean it was just like come on what part of no don't you understand I wanted to as a young person eight nine special when I was 10 and I committed my life to Christ I wanted to convert every Catholic I ever met get them out of that dead dried up Catholic Church and make them love Jesus you know in fact my goal was one day I want to go to the Vatican and the Pope saved because I mean come on obviously nobody's ever told him about Jesus because otherwise he wouldn't be running around calling himself Holy Father and other such nonsense but anyway that's how I was raised and then I got away from my faith in my teen years I came back to the faith took a little different turn there and with the Assemblies of God when I was 18 and I immediately when I reek emitted my life to Christ I felt the desire to be in ministry in fact when I was 10 and I got saved I wanted to be a preacher like Billy Graham who was my hero and my pastor pastor Eugene Forman who to this day and forever I will be grateful to that man who brought me to Jesus when I was 10 years old you know I just wanted to be a preacher and I got away from God as I said in my teen years but when I came back I had that same desire all I want to do is tell people about Jesus well I got plugged into an assembly of God community and I ended up joining the United States Marine Corps to kind of get my life started good move by the way but it was my last year in the Marines when I was actually preparing to get out of the Marines and go and to go into ministry that I met a young Catholic marine by the name of sergeant Matt doula and he and I are best buds now he lives in st. Charles just outside of Chicago great guy but when I first met him I was at Quantico Virginia and I'll never forget when he checked into my unit whenever anybody checked into my unit a new marine I was the first one to greet him and the first one to evangelize them you know everybody knew me all the Marines do I hear staples he's gonna be talking about Jesus let's get out of here this guy's a nutcase you know that's what it was but when he came to man to a while I ran into a buzzsaw because this guy he was not like the Catholics that I had met before see normally you Catholics were easy pickings when it came to evangelization because I I hate to say this folks but you guys are famous for not knowing your Bible you know for those of and and that is a true it's a tragedy really we're working on turning that around Catholics we need to know that book it's our book by the way talking New Testament here written by Catholics - Catholics for Catholics in the context of Catholic communities was preserved by the Catholic Church canonized by the Catholic Church without the Catholic Church you don't have a New Testament and you don't have the whole Old Testament either by the way I mean it's our book we need to get a hold of it and get to know it amen but by God's grace I ran into it a young Catholic that was not like I mean normally if I hit a Catholic with matthew 23:9 right called no man on this earth father right the response was normally you know something like this oh I would say how did you that would be about it that would be the level of theological brilliance I would get from the Catholic right but I was more than taken aback when I first met Matt and launched into our first argument and I will say honestly we argued for one year straight we hardly stopped now that's a little hyperbole I mean we did become friends we're in the same unit we worked out together and stuff and so you know we did become friends but it was inevitable because we both loved our fates and and man we would go at it but I'll never forget the first thing I hit him with was guess what matthew 23:9 and for the first time in my life i had run into a catholic who was ready willing and able to defend his faith and I will be forever grateful to sergeant Matt doula my bud because Matt doula had mercy on me amen think about it you know when we think about the works of mercy we often think of the corporal works of mercy right there's also the spiritual works of mercy comfort and soul forgive for bare how about educate the ignorant and admonish the sinner he had mercy on me and by the way you know you're gonna be judged as to whether you go to heaven or hell by both the Corporal and spiritual works of mercy as well but I'm forever grateful to Matt Julie he truly had mercy on me and he shared his faith with me but this is what he says when I said Matt come on man you you're a Catholic when I found out he was Catholic you you're a Catholic you claim to be a Christian right oh absolutely I'm Catholic of course I'm Christian well don't Christians obey the Christ how are the word are you going to tell me the the Bible says calling them on this earth Father and yet you call these priests father you're directly contradicting the word of our Lord and Savior you know what this launched into that year-long discussion and I want to tell you something what happened to me was the very verses of Scripture that I believe were absolutely airtight in demonstrating the errors of Catholicism became the very verses of scripture that led me to the Catholic faith look here we go y'all ready for this all right well when I hit him with matthew 23:9 I didn't get the normal response he said he said Tim we Catholics believe that verse of scripture just like it's written man but did you know Tim that there's more than one verse in the Bible did you know that you guys heard the story the guy who's struggling in his life he doesn't know which way to go he needs direction he's praying well somebody told some brilliant friend tells him if you want direction this is what you do just take your Bible let the pages fall open and point to a verse and God will give you a direction he was like yeah man I'm excited by the way I'm not recommending this alright so he takes his Bible he lets the page he lets the pages fall open he points to a verse and he excitedly reads it and it says and Judas went out and hanged himself oh oh wow maybe Oh folks as meta as Matt doula shared with me you can make the Bible say anything you want if you take verses of scripture out of context he said my friend listen you believe that Jesus means you cannot enunciate the term hair or father with regard to a human being is this is what we'll look Matt what does Jesus say does okay Kim give me your Bible man that used to tick me off he used to take my Bible out of my hand and beat me with it now I'm speaking metaphorically of course but he did he says look look let's go to Ephesians chapter 6 verses 1 & 2 now I wasn't used to Catholics quote in the Bible I thought there was a law somewhere that said Catholics aren't allowed to quote the Bible but here he's and 6 of course st. Paul quotes the fourth commandment what's the fourth commandment every mom and dad knows that one right honor your father and mother and I love that second part my dad used to love that that your days may be prolonged on this earth you want your days prolonged on this earth anyway anyway in that quotes the fourth commandment and then he says Tim I thought you said Jesus said call no man on this earth father will st. Paul does right here under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit is God confused he actually said that is God confused him what's your name Carlos he says is God confused and I'm going man I'm thinking in my mind this is crazy this is a Catholic this can't wait a minute I am NOT gonna be out Bible by a Catholic there is no way and so I take a step back and I hear was my retort I said look look alright I understand that look it's okay to call a physical father father I mean I I get your point even though a minute ago I was saying you can't go okay but here alright I'll give you this you can call your physical father father okay that's fine but what Jesus was talking about in matthew 23:9 is you don't call spiritual leaders father right spiritual leaders Matt Carlos Matt didn't miss a beat he says oh so you can't call spiritually let's go to Luke 16 verse 24 Tim there we go in Luke 16 verse 24 Jesus calls Abraham guess what father Abraham Carlos Matt looks me dead in the eye and he says would you say Abraham is a spiritual leader and you know what my response was I didn't have a response and you know what Matt didn't stop there he's taking Tim let's go over the Roman he's showing me these verses romans chapter 4 verses 1 through 18 7 times Saint Paul calls Abraham guess what father Abraham let's go to James chapter 2 verse 21 st. James calls Abraham guess what father let's go to Acts chapter 7 verses 1 and 2 Saint Stephen when he preaches his famous homily there before the elders of Jerusalem remember that a father Larry what did they do to him after he preached they killed him that's when you know you've preached is when they kill you right afterward but yes how does he start that message he says men brethren father's hearken unto me he calls them father's and then let's go to 1st John chapter 2 verse 13 listen to this st. John writing to most likely the elders at Ephesus it would become a Catholic epistle but most likely first to the to the elders at Ephesus or the priests what does he call them fathers exhorting them to teach their spiritual sons and daughters I am getting pummeled by a Catholic with Bible and then it was two more two more that did me in he goes let's go to 1st Corinthians chapter 4 verses 14 and 15 listen to this st. Paul says you have ten thousand instructors in the Lord Jesus Christ you have not many fathers I have become your father for I'd begotten you through the gospel I'm going somehow I and mind you I had half the New Testament memorized I just didn't memorize these but the last one the last one that did me in was Ephesians 3:14 quoting from the douay-rheims here which gets closest to the Greek text for this cause I bend my knee before the Father of lights from whom all fatherhood in heaven and on earth is derived or literally in the Greek text it says takes its name or derives its authority man that was just like dagger in the heart Matz has looked him Jesus did not mean in matthew 23:9 that you can't enunciate the term potter with regard to a human being that would be absurd because if he did he contradicted himself and so did st. Luke and st. John and st. Paul and st. James and we can add the Holy Spirit who inspired all of them the key is right there in Ephesians 3 notice he says true fatherhood in heaven and on earth participates in the Fatherhood of God see Jesus was condemning the usurpation of the Fatherhood of God and remember both religious leaders we had Pharisees who were teaching as if doctrine the traditions of men taking authority upon themselves that they did not have and of course that doesn't happen today does it no see but we had not only religious leaders but think about it there was a very important political leader who was doing a little of that or how about a lot all the way back to Augustus my friends the Roman emperors you know one of the titles of the Roman emperors was Father God they were the father of the Empire the Empire was their children and you had to worship the Emperor you know many a Catholic went to their deaths as martyrs not just for refusing to worship the pantheon of the gods but for refusing to worship the Emperor as father of the Empire can you see why Jesus might say in that context call no man on this earth father but my friends he's not condemning obviously st. Paul saying I am your father to the Corinthians and I would argue it would have been totally appropriate for the Corinthians to say hey father Paul right he's obviously not condemning that you see folks I am a father to my seven poop machines at home right now in San Diego and oh my wife hate my wife hates it when I say poop machines but anyway there are all snoozin right now back in San Diego I am a father to those seven children in as much as I participate in the Fatherhood of God through a sacrament amen father Larry and the other priests in this church right now our fathers in the truest sense of the term like st. Paul they beget children through baptism they nurture and nourish them through the sacraments and the proclamation of the gospel let me tell you when macula hit me with this for the first time in my life I was wrong and a Catholic was right and it ticked me off oh but you know what my brothers and sisters I never let him know it I fought with him even when I knew I was wrong I fought with him anyway it's called pride people ask me often what how did you become Catholic and I say I don't know because I fought it with every ounce of strength I have but by God's grace I am what I am but you know what happened in my mind I'm faking it okay alright even a broken clock is Right twice a day right okay the Catholics got lucky on one and you know Cana priests father I mean it's not a big what's you know what's up the ante here let's talk about some stuff that's more important than that how about this one and I go after him Isaiah chapter 43 verse 25 Psalm 103 verses one through three tell us it is the Lord who forgives our sins God forgives our sins right now you've probably heard this one before why in the world would I go to some dude with a bunkie collar on like back there why would I go to him to get my sins forgiven when the Bible says God forgives my sin now I would ask you guys a question how many of you here you Aussies do you remember Columbo come on look at this a lot of folks with gray hair or raising their hands alright Columbo now the younger folks who may not know it's worth getting on Netflix or whatever else you can get it on Columbo was the detective oh what a show that was a classic my kids love it today my kids don't watch any of the modern stuff they love the old stuff but Columbo he's hilarious right and I love the way you know he he's all disheveled and his hair is messed up and he's you know let me ask you a question chick one more question right oh yeah oh don't you love it and he seemed like he was an idiot but he was actually the smartest guy in the room well my boy Matt doula when he showed that I like to say he used the Columbo approach of evangelization because he would ask me questions and here's what he did on the forgiveness of sins he said Tim okay I see what you're saying God forgives sins but did you know that in the Catholic Church we believe and teach that God forgives our sins okay but let me ask you a question now he didn't he didn't do it like this yes but he let me ask you a question is it possible he says I'm not saying it's actual is it possible that God could have we're talking Old Testament now could have established a priesthood and given to that priesthood his power to be his instruments to communicate his forgiveness to his people I mean I'm just saying is it possible or do you think God isn't powerful enough to do that you talk about being set up all right what am I gonna say Oh No God's not tapper for nothing well yeah yeah I mean God's powerful enough to do well Tim that's exactly what we see in the Old Testament and we could go through a scores of verses that demonstrate it but Leviticus 19 20 through 22 is an example as you know Leviticus goes through a litany of sins and gives instruction as to how you get forgiveness for those sins you if you do this you take this sacrifice if you're poor you take this one if you're wealthy you take this one right now in Leviticus 19 20 through 22 it's a particular sexual sin that's being described and they say if you've done this you take this sacrifice but most importantly in verse 22 and the priest will make a toment for your sins before the Lord and your sins will be forgiven and he says Tim that sounds to me like God established the priesthood and gave to that priesthood his authority to be his instruments to communicate healing to his people so obviously it's not a contradiction to say God forgives our sins and that there's a priesthood that becomes his instrument to communicate the forgiveness of sins folks this was airtight and I'm going man but my retort was okay all right I kind of I kind of see what you're getting at but wait a minute Jesus Christ is according to 1st Timothy 2:5 the Bible says there is one God and one mediator between God and men the man Jesus Christ he is our high priest Hebrews 3:1 Hebrews 7 22 of course says in the Old Covenant the priests were many because they could not continue by virtue of death of their deaths but Christ ever liveth to make intercession for us at the right hand of the Father so he is our one priest our high priest amen the one mediator between God and men and in Matthew chapter 9 verses 2 through 6 for example remember when jesus healed the paralytic Jesus forgave his sins that you may know the Son of man has power on the earth to forgive sins he says you're healed right he heals him so Matt just look how in the world Matt Dula are you gonna say that I would go to anybody other than Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of my sins in view of all of that and I gotta tell you folks you probably know where he went but he did he said Tim let me ask you a question and he said I'm not saying he did but is it possible you know what folks there's one thing I want to communicate to you guys this weekend it is not hard to be an evangelist it's not hard folks if we would get out and share our faith with people you know a lot more about your faith than you even realize too often we're just afraid and we don't do it maybe it's respective persons I don't know but I guarantee you folks if you'll just stand up engage people in conversation you will be amazed at how effective you could be right now as an apostle for our Lord but it's not that difficult he says Tim look is it possible oh man I remember this Carlos he goes I'm not saying he did but is it possible that Jesus Christ who by the way we as Catholics agree with you he is the god man he is our high priest he forgives our sins absolutely but is it possible that he could have established a priesthood given and given to that priesthood his power to be his instruments to communicate that forgiveness to his people or do you think Jesus was not powerful enough to do that oh my goodness I can't tell you folks but my response was this because I'm going okay I I see where we're going here but he's not going to be able to give me anything in the New Testament that has right the madami yeah okay it's it's it's possible but he didn't do that guess where he went John chapter 20 verses 21 through 23 folks and once again I will never forget it it's after the resurrection Jesus appears the Apostles in the upper room and you know the story he breathes on them and says receive the Holy Spirit here's here's the key peace be unto you as the father has sent me so do I send you key phrase there as the father has sent me what did the father send Jesus to do well a number of things among them to preach to rule right he's prophet priest and King all right so he he sent him to do a number of things but one of which was to forgive sins amen as the father sent me so do I send you that's the context in which he then breathes on them and says received the Holy Spirit whosoever sins you forgive are forgiven whoever sins you retain are retained Carlos Matt looked me once again dead in the eye and he said brother what else would Jesus have to say to you to get you to believe he's communicating his forgiveness or the the power to forgive sins to his apostles I don't know how else he could say it and let me tell you something that I'm gonna make up what I believe is the most important point I'm gonna make to you this weekend right here right now you see I knew what my response was going to be I mean I was a devout Protestant I knew apologetics as a Protestant I knew what I was going to say I mean I used the the argument well all right Matt doula what you don't understand is that actually that verb to forgive is in the perfect tense at least the second occasion of that verb in other words when Jesus says whoever sins you forgive are forgiven that's a perfect tense there of the verb forgive which means a past completed action with present enduring results right now guys I got to tell you as I was saying it to him I started losing my confidence in what I was saying because I said look it's the perfect tense so it actually refers back to the fact that God has already forgiven them through the proclamation of the gospel so the the apostles are not actually forgiven the sins but just declaring their sins have already been forgiven because they believed now folks that sounded good in Sunday School class but when I actually tried to use this on and and let me tell you something I believe with all my heart the reason why I'm standing here Catholic right now I would find out later that sergeant Matt doula had just been up off his knees offering mass and a rosary for me that day you know how I know that because I found out later he went to Mass every day and prayed a rosary every day for the entire year I knew him for me folks I was a goner I just didn't know it yet and let me tell you when he shared with me see Carlos the word works truth works I mean I am proof-positive God can use an ass to communicate the gospel now I'm using the term ass in the sense of a donkey people Balaam's ass from number 16 what were you thinking alright anyway but God you if you proclaim the word it works but I will guarantee you you give me a holy man or woman of God who gets a hold of the word and it works better amen I mean when you hear the word proclaimed by a Pope st. John Paul the great it has an impact amen well let me tell I'm I'm responded to well you see now whosoever sins you forgive are forgiven it's a person perfect tense which refers back to the proclamation of the gospel and I'm called Lord I'm not even beginning I'm not even believing what I'm saying and of course Matt response means this look Tim I don't know Greek but I know this if it's true perfect tense refers back to some previous action well it seems to me it would refer back to when Jesus said whoever sins you forgive wouldn't it in other words yep whosoever sins you forgive are forgiven so yeah the perfect tense refers to a past completed action resulting in an ongoing enduring state it refers back to whoever sins you forgive I got to tell you a story years ago I was preparing for a debate with at Catholic Answers we do dial I like to call them dialogues rather than debates but we I was preparing for for a dialogue with some local a local Protestant minister and we went to lunch and we were going to talk parameters and who's taking the affirmative and so forth and our lunch ended up being a four-hour debate we got into all kinds of topics and at the end of the four hours he said I don't think I'm called to debate you so I'm serious he said let's come back next week and he brought a friend another pastor and we had another four-hour lunch and then they said well you know I'm not sure weird called the debate but we went back a third week and four pastors came and one of them was the Greek professor from their Bible College in Costa Mesa California I kid you not and we had another very long lunch and we did eventually have a really cool good debate down the road but I got to share this with you as we were debating once again over lunch these four pastors we got to the point on this point and I had this conversation with them and it went almost exactly the way my conversation went with Matt Dula 20-plus years before you know and I was thinking of it as we were saying it because the Greek professor made the same argument that I had made 20-some years before and so I responded just like I did with you and and I said look look man I mean this is pretty plain who service sins you forgive are forgiven yeah the are forgiven refers back to the whosoever sins you forgive I mean that's really basic Greek here my friend right and I kid you not we go on he didn't even try to respond very much we just went on topic you know to another topic but any rate finally I just said to the these guys after talking for a long time I said brothers can I just cut to the chase here let me ask you guys something let's go back to John 20 21 through 23 I got one question what would God have to say to you to get you to believe that he's committed the same thing Matt Dolan said to me all those years what would God have to do to communicate to you the fact that he's communicating his power to forgive sins the Apostles because look I don't know how he could say it in any more of a plain way than he does right there and I kid you not that they're Greek professor he said Tim I got to admit to you there are some verses of Scripture that are hard to understand I kid you not he said that and I said brother I agree with you you want to talk about st. Paul and predestination you got some difficult stuff but when it comes to difficult verses of Scripture this ain't one of them this is as easy as it gets and right then the yet there was a young pastor the youngest of the four it was his first week showing up at the lunch this young pastor I kid you not he spoke up and he said Tim I gotta admit you right now you have shared the Catholic faith with me in ways I have never heard before and I realized right now I need to study more about the Catholic faith the other pastors immediately okay time to go now let's go okay we're gonna leave now well we'll talk to you we'll call you okay and they're pulling this guy out of the restaurant and you know what I did I followed him out and I'm following him out go don't you let the devil snatch the seed that was planted in you right now you know it's true and you will stand before God for your knowledge of the truth right now so that was kind of fun but anyway the point is guys and girls we have the truth as Catholics we really do we just got to get it in our heads and our hearts and share it but let me move to to another let's take it up another notch here because I can only do four we've done two can we try to do two more before they throw me out all right yes oh we got a better mic here okay you want to take this here take that alright is this better or is it on I'll bet this is better alright alright let's take it up a notch in my discussion and probably you've heard this before too in my discussion with Matt we got to this point where in my mind I'm gonna believe me he showed me statues praying to Saints all kinds of things he was making sense and I'm thinking I'm losing my mind and so in my mind I'm thinking ok we can we can disagree on a lot of things and Catholics can get lucky on a few things here and there but the most important thing is are you saved right and so I moved a discussion to justification by faith alone and Matt Matt took over the conversation this boy got bold it was more than just defending his faith now this boy got boat cuz I remember Carlos he went just like this he said ok Tim so you believe in justification by faith alone I said any men brother he said okay but let me ask you know do you believe in Sola scriptura I said Amen Sola scriptura by scripture alone right as Martin Luther taught the scripture alone is the regular fee day or the rule of faith Bible alone scripture alone absolutely brother aneesa's okay look let me ask you a question now you believe in the Bible alone you believe in justification by faith alone now I'm not asking you to become Catholic at least not today I'm not I'm asking you to to at least just try to understand where we Catholics are coming from when you talk about justification by faith alone he goes to James chapter 2 verse 24 y'all know right where we're going right but hear me he says all right we see then that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone all right Kim can you at least sympathize with how we might have a little problem with justification when the only time the words faith alone are used in the entire Bible the words not by our right in front of them I mean come on can you at least understand how maybe and I remember once again I responded with well you know that James is talking about justification in kind of a different way than Paul he's not actually saying the works contribute to your justification but that they only prove the justification you already have and I wasn't even believing what I was saying once again and you know what and Matt just nailed me to the wall on the thing now it is true James is talking about justification and Aspen in a specific way he's talking about the increase of Justice that happens through good works in cooperation with the grace of God that we have but there is no doubt there is a contribution to your final justification there there is a be you have to as matt said to me Tim look a man is justified by works and not by faith alone it's okay tell you what let's set that one aside but let's just go to Romans chapter 2 verses 6 and 7 where scripture says God will reward each man according to his works of course I jump in right that well hey man that's not talking about eternal life that's talking about jewels in your crown now for those you don't understand in good Baptist Sunday school you're taught of course your salvation comes when you accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior done deal your sins are forgiven past present and future try to get that anywhere out of the Bible folks but that's what we were taught in Southern Baptist Church right so any good works you do only at we see is the image of adding jewels to your crown you already got your crown on brother you just adding jewels to your crown that you're gonna cast at the feet of Jesus as we see in the book of Revelation okay so I jump in there that's not talking about eternal I think oh really let's keep reading God will reward each man according to his works to him who continues in good works his reward shall be glory in corruption and eternal life oops so according to st. Paul magic he doesn't agree with you Tim he says the reward for good works obviously done as Romans 11:36 as in him with him through him and yes that's where it comes from in the liturgy right there all right obviously but nevertheless my friends how can the Bible be any more plain that the reward is eternal life but let's set that one aside and let's go to Galatians chapter 6 verses 7 through 9 guys once again I have to tell you this was incredible to me a Catholic Galatians 6 verses 7 through 9 listen to this be not deceived for God is not mocked whatsoever a man sows that shall he reap to him who continues to sow any farmers in here I think any farmer knows that sowing that is the seed is something you do amen that's a work alright whatsoever a man sows that shall he reap if he continues to sow to the flesh he shall of the flesh reap death if he continues to sow to the spirit he shall of the Spirit reap everlasting life let us not then grow weary in well-doing for we know we shall reap the reward what reward everlasting life if we do not lose heart guys by this time I'm like seeing double I'm like you know left hook from Mike Tyson I'm up against the ropes it's like well and he goes on and on we all know Matthew 25:31 through 46 the final judgement Jesus gathers his sheep and the goats and folks the only difference between the sheep and the goats is what they did and did not do he takes me through the gospel and he's nailing me left and right and I got to tell you folks cuz we're running out of time we could go down a let's um of my stuff back there on the table I take you through a whole lot more all right I recommend you get all-father layering stuff and all my stuff but I gotta tell you this what happened to me was it was doctrine after doctrine where this guy is showing me stuff and and I gotta say this too there were times many times I don't want you guys to think that he had an S on his chest you know he's he is a great man he's I'd find out later he's the oldest of eight kids all Opus Dei schooled in Chicago all eight of those kids to this day now most of them married with their own families all eight of them are rock-solid Catholics to this day and they had an incredible family but he didn't always have the answer I would nail him and and sometimes he he'd say you know I don't have the answer but you know what he would do cuz I think yeah I got him he would write it down and then he would go back to his spiritual director father Ron Gillis and Opus Dei priest at the Tenley study Center in Washington DC who by the way would become my first spiritual director he just died a couple years ago one of the most brilliant and holy priests I've ever known in my life but father Ron would give him not just answers but books and sometimes it would be two weeks later I mean he would write it down in his day planner you know and there'd be like two weeks three weeks later he would come up and say okay let's see Tim all right on October 7th at 2:35 p.m. you asked this well here's the answer and he would give me an answer in a book I kid you not by the end of the year I had a stack of books about this high and I was crazy enough to read every one of them and you know why because I was going to prove the Catholic Church false I said I'm not afraid I'm gonna read it all Ludvig odds fundamentals of Catholic dogma the church teaches by the Jesuit fathers of st. Mary's James Cardinal Gibbons faith of our fathers Lightfoot's Apostolic fathers even gave me an abridged version of the confessions which actually had an impact on me as well but challenged me rebook the canons and decrees of ecumenical councils he said Tim stopped reading what Jimmy Swaggart says about the Catholic Church and read Catholic theologians Catholic popes and such that's why I'm Catholic my friends because I fought it with everything I had but at this point I'm gonna just do one last thing what do I have I got five minutes all right and father Larry is threatening me already so I'm gonna end with this because I'm thinking I'm going crazy because I'm seen by this time my gosh I'm seeing praying that's it we didn't have time to do that praying the Saints the Eucharist was really making sense to me I'm going oh my lord I'm losing my mind the one thing I thought was going to keep me Protestant was Mary and by the way that's why I wrote the book behold your mother health care defending the Marian doctrines all of them get it but that's I thought was going to keep me Protestant the Immaculate Conception the assumption are you kidding me this is insane and so I even got a little boldness back when I hit him with what about Romans 3:23 right all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God you're gonna tell me Mary's without sin Oh Oh what part of all don't you understand first John chapter 1 verse 8 if any man says he has no sin he has a liar and the truth is not in him you gonna tell me Mary's without sin I got to tell you Carlos I even got a little boldness back on this one but in my mind I'm going lord please don't let him show me Mary what else please and sure enough he hit me I kind of you know I used to box when I was a teenager you know and when you're learning boxing some of you got some of your Z's probably did a little boxing you know when you're a kid fighting Golden Gloves you just good stiff left pain pain get that hook going and then you just get in there and bang heads right but as you mature a little bit the idea you start learning how to do something called punching with angles right it's that little step on the inside of you catch a fancy it's the punch he never sees that's the one that knocks him out it's called punching with angles you know what I found out that doula knew how to punch with angles because I want you to hear his response when I hit him with Romans 3:23 and first on 1:8 this is what he said to me he said Tim you are the first Christian I've ever met who believes Jesus Christ was a sinner right I'm like what I didn't say G yes you did because if you're gonna take first on one eight and a strict literal sense if any man says he has Oh Cindy is alive was Jesus Christ fully man yes he was he was 100% man and he was 100% God of course he can be 200% cuz he's God he was fully man so my goodness you believe Jesus was a sinner and I'm no no he's an exception and Hebrews 4:15 tells us he was an exception he was tempted on all points even as we are yet he was without sin you know that said he said but you're acknowledging there are exceptions aren't you and I said no I'm not one exception and that's it and he said what if I can show you millions of exceptions to Romans 3:23 and first time one day I'm telling you guys if you'd have been in that room you would have seen smoke coming out of my ears because in my brains I'm going he can't do that he can't do that no there can't be are there and of course guys this is what he said to me and it makes so much sense first time 118 Romans 3:23 are talking about personal sin not original sin Romans 5:12 will deal with original sin and there are two exceptions there but we're not there yet let's deal with the verses you gave Romans 3:23 and first John 1:8 are dealing with personal saying how do you know just look it for one verse later 1st John 1:8 let's go to 9 you know what it says if we confess our sins he's faithful and just do you confess original sin people say no real loud no you can't confess original sin because you didn't do it in fact you guys know original sin is sin by analogy it's not proper sin for you it's only for Adam and Eve but we use that term by analogy because we inherit a fallen nature and the foam is patottie or the tendency to sin alright I'm winding it down he's ready with the hook here and you guys hang in here with me just for a sec so obviously that's dealing with personal sin and of course Romans 3:23 all you got to do is read the verses leading up go back to verse 10 where st. Paul quotes psalm 14 there is none righteous no not one all are gone astray the poison of snakes is on their lips they sin they sin he's talking about personal sin all have sinned can anybody think of millions of exceptions how about Romans chapter 9 where st. Paul says referring to Jacob and Esau when they were in the womb of their mother before they had done any evil or good do babies in the womb sin people please say no all right we've got good theology how about children before the age of 7 can't sin although my four year old I'm sorry bishop we got to change that for my four-year-old son that's all I'm saying but anyway now they're covered till their 7th the mentally seriously mentally challenged can't send because you have to know what you're about to do is a sin and further engage the will and act on that knowledge for it to be a sin millions of exceptions in the last thing I'll say to you guys you can imagine what's going through my head I'm going oh my gosh he's making sense but Matt you can't show me Mary is an exception can you and man did he hit me he gave me 3 you get my book folks I give you 8 biblical and historical reasons why Mary's Immaculate conceived I wanted to do 3 with you I can't I'll just do the easiest the first one real quick and we got to go Luke chapter 1 verse 28 I had never heard it presented like this before you all know the story the angel Gabriel comes down to a little fourteen-year-old girl to announce that she's being called to be the mother of the Son of God but how does he greet her he says hail full of grace notice he doesn't say Hail Mary huh usually when you say hail Catholics go Mary full of grace where's my rosy blazer all right no he doesn't say Hail Mary he says hail full of grace and that's extremely important as he pointed out to me and by the way Pope Saint John Paul the great and his masterpiece mother of the Redeemer March 25th 1987 a glorious encyclical redemptor as mater which by the way is packed with incredibly incredibly deft apologetics man but he makes this point that the angel when he greets her Kyra a que corre tome na he actually gives her a name or a title right instead of Hail Mary it's hail full of grace she you go through your New Testament you'll see multiple examples of the word Chi right used and normally there's a name or a title right after it or in the immediate vicinity for example in Matthew 23 you find Festus and Felix two Roman governors and one sends a letter to the other and the letter says Chi ray or Chi rain actually there but Chi Ray o most noble Festus or how about John 19 3 remember when the Jews were mocking Jesus and they played at a crown of thorns on his head remember what they what did they say hail what King of the Jews right that's a title normally follows this greeting this may well be the reason why Mary was so greatly disturbed at what manner of greeting this was it wasn't because of the Chi ray part because that's just a standard greeting it was the cake re Tom in a part this name this new title hail now listen to this as Pope John Paul the second and he actually writes it in Greek there in the encyclical the only time I can remember John Paul actually wrote out a word in Greek but it's hail literal literal translation she who has been completed in grace and this is a name folks it's a perfect passive participle we got introduced to the perfect a little bit earlier a past completed action resulting in a present state of being completed perfected if you will and a permanent state you know what that means she is free from all grace see you and I do not sin because we're full of grace we sin because we're not or we don't cooperate with grace Mary the title reveals to us is free from all sin and folks I wish I had more time but I obviously don't so folks I'd encourage you get a hold of my book behold your mother I go through eight but God loved you and I'm gonna shut up now hey I started late

Channel: Michael Chong

Views: 5,507

Rating: 4.96 out of 5

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Id: j7wgLMRxGiA

Length: 56min 21sec (3381 seconds)

Published: Wed Jul 24 2019