>> Announcer: "THIS WEEK" WITH GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS STARTS RIGHT NOW. >> George: STANDING FIRM. >> I'M STAYING IN THE RACE. I'LL BEAT DONALD TRUMP. >> Jonathan: PRESIDENT BIDEN FIGHTS TO SAFE HIS CANDIDACY. >> I JUST HAD A BAD NIGHT. I DON'T KNOW WHY. >> George: PRESSURE MOUNTS FOR HIM TO STEP ASIDE. >> I DON'T THINK ANYBODY IS MORE QUALIFIED TO WIN THIS RACE THAN ME. >> George: CAN HE REASSURE VOTERS? WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO HAVE THE INDEPENDENT MEDICAL EVALUATION? DO YOU BELIEVE YOU'RE NOT BEHIND RIGHT NOW? THIS MORNING, OUR EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW WITH JOE BIDEN. PLUS, OUR POWERHOUSE ROUND TABLE. >> WE USE SPEED, SURPRISE, AND VIOLENCE OF ACTION TO DIVERT AND SUPPRESS THAT THREAT. >> George: AHEAD OF THE POLITICAL CONVENTIONS, PIERRE THOMAS LOOKS TO SECURE THE EVENTS. KIM CHEATLE JOINS US LIVE. >> George: GOOD MORNING, AND WELCOME TO "THIS WEEK." THREE QUESTIONS HANGING OVER THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND THE COUNTRY RIGHT NOW ARE SIMPLE AND STARK. CAN PRESIDENT BIDEN EFFECTIVELY SERVE A SECOND TERM? CAN HE DEFEAT DONALD TRUMP? WILL HE CONTINUE TO BE THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE? I PUT THOSE QUESTIONS TO THE PRESIDENT FRIDAY IN OUR EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW. HERE NOW IS THAT ENTIRE CONVERSATION. >> MR. PRESIDENT, THANK YOU FOR DOING THIS. >> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME. >> George: LET'S START WITH THE DEBATE. YOU AND YOUR TEAM SAID -- HAVE SAID YOU HAD A BAD NIGHT, BUT -- >> I DID. >> George: BUT YOUR FRIEND NANCY PELOSI FRAMED THE QUESTION THAT'S ON THE MINDS OF MILLIONS OF AMERICANS. WAS THIS A BAD EPISODE OR A SIGN OF A MORE SERIOUS CONDITION? >> IT WAS A BAD EPISODE. THERE'S NO INDICATION OF ANY SERIOUS CONDITION. I WAS EXHAUSTED. I DIDN'T LISTEN TO MY INSTINCTS IN TERMS OF PREPARING, AND I HAD A BAD NIGHT. >> George: YOU KNOW YOU SAY YOU WERE EXHAUSTED AND YOU'VE SAID THAT BEFORE AS WELL, BUT YOU CAME AND YOU DID HAVE A TOUGH MONTH, BUT YOU CAME HOME FROM EUROPE FOR ABOUT 11 OR 12 DAYS BEFORE THE DEBATE, SPENT SIX DAYS IN CAMP DAVID. WHY WASN'T THAT ENOUGH REST TIME, ENOUGH RECOVERY TIME? >> BECAUSE I WAS SICK. I WAS FEELING TERRIBLE. MATTER OF FACT, THE DOCS WITH ME, I ASKED THEM AND THEY DID A COVID TEST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT WAS WRONG. THEY DID A TEST TO SEE WHETHER OR NOT I HAD SOME INFECTION, YOU KNOW, A VIRUS. I DIDN'T. I JUST HAD A REALLY BAD COLD. >> George: AND DID YOU EVER WATCH THE DEBATE AFTERWARDS? >> I DON'T THINK I DID, NO. >> George: WELL, WHAT I WANT TO GET AT IS WHAT WERE YOU EXPERIENCING AS YOU WERE GOING THROUGH THE DEBATE? DID YOU KNOW HOW BADLY IT WAS GOING? >> YEAH, LOOK. THE WHOLE WAY I PREPARED -- IT'S NOBODY'S FAULT BUT MINE. NOBODY'S FAULT BUT MINE. I -- I PREPARED WHAT I USUALLY WOULD DO SITTING DOWN AS I DID COME BACK WITH FOREIGN LEADERS OR THE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL FOR EXPLICIT DETAIL, AND I REALIZED ABOUT PARTWAY THROUGH THAT, YOU KNOW, I GOT QUOTED "THE NEW YORK TIMES," THEY HAD ME DOWN TEN POINTS DOWN BEFORE THE DEBATE, NINE NOW OR WHATEVER THE HELL IT IS, BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS WHAT I LOOKED AT IS HE ALSO LIED 28 TIMES. I COULDN'T -- I MEAN, THE WAY THE DEBATE RAN -- NOT -- MY FAULT. NO ONE ELSE'S FAULT. >> George: IT SEEMED LIKE YOU WERE HAVING TROUBLE FROM THE FIRST QUESTION IN, EVEN BEFORE HE SPOKE. >> I JUST HAD A BAD NIGHT. I CAN'T REMEMBER ANY, BUT I'M SURE YOU DID. >> George: I HAVE HAD PLENTY. I GUESS THE QUESTION -- THE PROBLEM IS HERE FOR A LOT OF AMERICANS WATCHING, AS YOU'VE SAID, GOING BACK TO 2020, WATCH ME. TO PEOPLE WHO ARE CONCERNED ABOUT YOUR AGE, YOU KNOW, 50 MILLION AMERICANS WATCHED THAT DEBATE. IT SEEMED TO CONFIRM FEARS THEY ALREADY HAD. >> WELL, LOOK. AFTER THAT DEBATE, I DID TEN MAJOR EVENTS IN A ROW INCLUDING UNTIL 2:00 IN THE MORNING AFTER THAT DEBATE. I DID EVENTS IN NORTH CAROLINA. I DID EVENTS IN GEORGIA. I DID EVENTS LIKE THIS TODAY, LARGE CROWDS, OVERWHELMING RESPONSE, NO SLIPPING, AND SO I JUST HAD A BAD NIGHT. I DON'T KNOW WHY. >> George: AND HOW QUICKLY DID IT COME TO YOU THAT YOU WERE HAVING THAT BAD NIGHT? >> WELL, IT CAME THAT I WAS HAVING A BAD NIGHT WHEN I REALIZED THAT EVEN WHEN I WAS ANSWERING THE QUESTION, EVEN THOUGH THEY TURNED HIS MIC OFF, HE WAS STILL SHOUTING AND I LET IT DISTRACT ME. I'M NOT BLAMING IT ON THEM, BUT I JUST REALIZED THAT I WASN'T IN CONTROL. >> George: PART OF THE OTHER CONCERN IS THAT THIS SEEMS TO HAVE FIT INTO A PATTERN OF DECLINE THAT HAS BEEN REPORTED ON RECENTLY. "THE NEW YORK TIMES" HAD A HEADLINE ON JULY 2nd, BIDEN'S LAPSES SEEM TO BE INCREASINGLY COMMON AND WORRISOME. THEY WROTE, PEOPLE WHO SPENT TIME WITH BIDEN SAID THE LAPSES HAVE GROWN MORE FREQUENT, MORE PRONOUNCED AND AFTER THURSDAY'S DEBATE, MORE WORRISOME. BY MANY IT ACCOUNT, MR. BIDEN IS NOT THE SAME TODAY AS HE WAS EVEN WHEN HE TOOK OFFICE 3 1/2 YEARS AGO. SIMILAR REPORTING IN "THE WASHINGTON POST" AND "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL." ARE YOU THE SAME MAN TODAY THAT YOU WERE WHEN YOU TOOK OFFICE 3 1/2 YEARS AGO? >> IN TERMS OF SUCCESSES, YES. I ALSO WAS THE GUY WHO PUT TOGETHER A PEACE PLAN FOR THE MIDDLE EAST AND MAY COME TO FRUITION. I WAS ALSO THE GUY TO EXPANDED NATO AND GREW THE ECONOMY. ALL THE INDIVIDUAL THINGS THAT WERE DONE WERE IDEAS I HAD OR I FULFILLED. I MOVED ON, AND SO FOR EXAMPLE, YOU KNOW, IF THAT WAS TRUE THEN, WHAT'S BIDEN DONE LATELY? JUST TODAY, ANNOUNCED 200,000 MORE JOBS AND THAT'S MORE THAN ANYONE HAS EVER TAKEN ON, AND I KNOW FROM YOUR DAYS IN THE GOVERNMENT, I TOOK ON BIG PHARMA. I BEAT THEM. NO ONE THOUGHT I COULD BEAT THEM. I TOOK ON ALL THE THINGS WE SAID WE GOT DONE WE WERE TOLD WE COULDN'T GET DONE, AND PART OF IT IS WHEN I SAID WHEN I RAN, I WANT TO DO THREE THINGS, RESTORE SOME DECENCY TO THE OFFICE, RESTORE SOME SUPPORT FOR THE MIDDLE CLASS INSTEAD OF TRICKLE DOWN ECONOMICS THE WAY THE WEALTHY DOES FIND BETTER, AND UNITE THE COUNTRY. >> George: WHAT HAS ALL THAT WORK OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS COST YOU PHYSICALLY, MENTALLY, EMOTIONALLY? >> WELL, I JUST THINK IT COST ME A REALLY BAD NIGHT, A BAD RUN, BUT, YOU KNOW, I -- GEORGE, I HAVE -- I'M OPTIMISTIC ABOUT THIS COUNTRY. I DON'T THINK WE'RE A COUNTRY OF LOSERS THAT HE POINTS OUT. I DON'T THINK AMERICA'S IN TOUGH SHAPE. I THINK AMERICA IS ON THE CUSP OF BREAKING THROUGH SO MANY INCREDIBLE OPPORTUNITIES. THIS NEXT TERM, I'M GOING TO MAKE SURE WE STRAIGHTEN OUT THE TAX SYSTEM. I'M GOING TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE A SITUATION WHERE WE HAVE HEALTH CARE FOR ALL PEOPLE, WHERE WE'RE IN A POSITION WHERE WE HAVE CHILD CARE AND ELDER CARE, AND ALL THESE THINGS. ONE THING I'M PROUD OF STILL IS YOU REMEMBER WHEN MY ECONOMIC PLAN WAS PUT FORWARD, A LOT OF THE MAINSTREAM ECONOMISTS SAID IT'S NOT GOING TO WORK. GUESS WHAT? YOU NOW HAVE 16 NOBEL LAUREATES, 16 OF THEM SAYING BIDEN'S NEXT TERM WOULD BE BASED ON WHAT HE WANTS TO DO, AN ENORMOUS SUCCESS. TRUMP'S PLAN WOULD CAUSE A RECESSION, INCREASE INFLATION. I MADE GREAT PROGRESS, AND THAT'S WHAT I PLAN ON DOING, AND WE CAN DO THIS. >> George: I UNDERSTAND THAT, AND I'M NOT DISPUTING THAT. WHAT I'M ASKING YOU IS ABOUT YOUR PERSONAL SITUATION. DO YOU DISPUTE THAT THERE HAVE BEEN MORE LAPSES, ESPECIALLY IN THE LAST SEVERAL MONTHS? >> CAN I RUN THE 110 FLAT? NO, BUT I'M STILL IN GOOD SHAPE. >> George: ARE YOU MORE FRAIL? >> NO. >> George: I KNOW -- >> COME KEEP MY SCHEDULE. >> George: I KNOW YOU SPOKE WITH YOUR DOCTOR AFTER THE DEBATE. WHAT DID HE SAY? >> HE SAID -- HE JUST LOOKED AT ME. HE SAID, YOU'RE EXHAUSTED. I SAID, I HAVE MEDICAL DOCTORS TRAVELING EVERYWHERE. EVERY PRESIDENT DOES AS YOU KNOW. MEDICAL DOCTORS, SOME OF THE BEST IN THE WORLD TRAVEL WITH ME EVERYWHERE I GO. I HAVE AN ONGOING ASSESSMENT OF WHAT I'M DOING, AND THEY DON'T HESITATE TO TELL ME IF THEY THINK THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG. >> George: YOU SAID YOU HAVE AN ONGOING ASSESSMENT. HAVE YOU HAD A NEUROLOGICAL ASSESSMENT? >> I HAVE A FULL NEUROLOGICAL TEST EVERY DAY. I HAD A FULL PHYSICAL. I HAD, YOU KNOW, I HAVE BEEN INVOLVED WITH MY PHYSICALS. YES. >> George: I KNOW YOUR DOCTOR SAID HE CONSULTED WITH A NEUROLOGIST. I'M ASKING A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT QUESTION. HAVE YOU HAD THE SPECIFIC COGNITIVE TESTS AND A NEUROLOGIST, A SPECIALIST, DO AN EXAMINATION? >> NO. NO ONE SAID I HAD TO. THEY SAID I'M GOOD. >> George: WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO UNDERGO AN INDEPENDENT MEDICAL EVALUATION THAT INCLUDED NEUROLOGICAL AND COGNITIVE TESTS AND RELEASE THE RESULTS TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE? >> LOOK. I HAVE A COGNITIVE TEST EVERY SINGLE DAY. EVERY DAY I HAVE THAT TEST, EVERYTHING I DO, YOU KNOW, NOT ONLY AM I CAMPAIGNING, BUT I'M RUNNING THE WORLD, AND THAT'S NOT -- IT SOUND LIKE HYPERBOLE, BUT WE ARE THE CENTRAL NATION OF THE WORLD. MADELINE ALBRIGHT WAS RIGHT, AND EVERY EXAMPLE TODAY, BEFORE I COME OUT HERE I'M ON THE PHONE WITH THE PRIME MINISTER OF -- I SHOULDN'T GIVE YOU THE DETAIL, BUT WITH NETANYAHU. I'M ON THE PHONE WITH THE NEW PRIME MINISTER OF ENGLAND. I'M WORKING ON WHAT WE'RE DOING WITH REGARD TO -- IN EUROPE, EXPANSION AND WHAT'S GOING TO STICK. I'M TAKING ON PUTIN. I MEAN, EVERY DAY -- THERE'S NO DAY I GO THROUGH THAT THERE ARE NOT THOSE DECISIONS I HAVE TO MAKE EVERY SINGLE DAY. >> George: AND YOU HAVE BEEN DOING THAT, AND THE AMERICAN PEOPLE HAVE BEEN WATCHING, YET THERE ARE CONCERNS ABOUT YOUR AGE AND YOUR HEALTH. THOSE ARE GROWING. THAT'S WHY I'M ASKING, TO REASSURE THEM, WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO HAVE THE INDEPENDENT MEDICAL EVALUATION? >> WATCH ME. THERE'S A LOT OF TIME LEFT IN THIS CAMPAIGN. THERE'S OVER 125 DAYS. >> George: SO THE ANSWER -- THE RIGHT ANSWER RIGHT NOW IS NO? YOU DON'T WANT TO DO THAT? >> I'VE ALREADY DONE IT. >> George: YOU'VE TALKED A LOT ABOUT YOUR SUCCESSES AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS INTERVIEW AND I DON'T WANT TO DISPUTE THAT. I DON'T WANT TO DEBATE THAT, BUT AS YOU KNOW, ELECTIONS ARE ABOUT THE FUTURE, NOT THE PAST. THEY'RE ABOUT TOMORROW, NOT YESTERDAY, AND THE QUESTION ON SO MANY PEOPLE'S MINDS RIGHT NOW, IS CAN YOU SERVE EFFECTIVELY FOR THE NEXT FOUR YEARS? >> GEORGE, I'M THE GUY THAT PUT NATO TOGETHER FOR THE FUTURE. NO ONE THOUGHT I COULD EXPAND IT. I'M THE GUY THAT SHUT PUTIN DOWN. NO ONE THOUGHT IT COULD HAPPEN. I'M THE GUY THAT PUT TOGETHER A SOUTH PACIFIC INITIATIVE WITH OTHERS. I'M THE GUY THAT GOT 50 NATIONS NOT ONLY IN EUROPE, OUTSIDE OF EUROPE AS WELL TO HELP UKRAINE. I'M THE GUY THAT GOT THE JAPANESE TO EXPAND THEIR BUDGET. SO I MEAN -- AND FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN I DECIDED WE USED TO HAVE 40% OF COMPUTER CHIPPING, WE INVENTED THE CHIP, LIKE THE COMPUTER CHIP. IT'S IN EVERYTHING FROM CELL PHONE TO WEAPONS. WE USED TO HAVE 40%, AND WE'RE DOWN TO VIRTUALLY NOTHING. I GET IN A PLANE AND I FLY TO SOUTH KOREA. I CONVINCED THEM TO INVEST IN THE UNITED STATES, BILLIONS OF DOLLARS. NOW WE HAVE TENS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS BEING INVESTED IN THE UNITED STATES MAKING US BACK IN A POSITION WE'RE GOING TO OWN THAT INDUSTRY AGAIN. WE HAVE -- I MEAN, I JUST -- ANYWAY, I DON'T WANT TO TAKE TOO MUCH CREDIT. I HAVE A GREAT STAFF. >> George: I GUESS MY POINT IS ALL THAT TAKES A TOLL. DO YOU HAVE THE MENTAL AND PHYSICAL CAPACITY TO DO IT FOR ANOTHER FOUR YEARS? >> I BELIEVE SO. I WOULDN'T BE RUNNING IF I DIDN'T THINK I DID. LOOK. I'M RUNNING AGAIN BECAUSE I THINK I UNDERSTAND BEST WHAT HAS TO BE DONE TO TAKE THIS NATION TO A COMPLETELY NEW LEVEL. WE'RE ON OUR WAY. WE'RE ON OUR WAY, AND LOOK. THE DECISION RECENTLY MADE BY THE SUPREME COURT ON IMMUNITY, YOU KNOW, THE NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT WHETHER HE OR SHE KNOWS WHAT THEY'RE DOING. IT'S NOT ABOUT A CONGLOMERATE OF PEOPLE MAKING DECISIONS. IT'S ABOUT THE CHARACTER OF THE PRESIDENT. THE CHARACTER OF THE PRESIDENT IS GOING TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT THIS CONSTITUTION IS EMPLOYED THE RIGHT WAY. >> George: LET ME ASK YOU A TOUGHER, MORE PERSONAL QUESTION. ARE YOU SURE YOU'RE BEING HONEST WITH YOURSELF WHEN YOU SAY YOU HAVE THE MENTAL AND PHYSICAL CAPACITY TO SERVE ANOTHER FOUR YEARS? >> YES, I AM BECAUSE GEORGE, THE LAST THING I WANT TO DO IS NOT BE ABLE TO MEET THAT. I THINK AS SOME OF SENIOR ECONOMISTS AND SENIOR FOREIGN POLICY SPECIALISTS SAY, IF I STOP NOW, I GO DOWN IN HISTORY AS A PRETTY SUCCESSFUL PRESIDENT. NO ONE THOUGHT I COULD GET DONE WHAT WE GOT DONE. >> George: BUT ARE YOU BEING HONEST WITH YOURSELF AS WELL ABOUT YOUR ABILITY TO DEFEAT DONALD TRUMP RIGHT NOW? >> YES. YES, YES, YES. >> George: YOU SAY THAT, AND LET ME CHALLENGE YOU. >> SURE. >> George: YOU WERE CLOSE OR BEHIND GOING INTO THE DEBATE. YOU'RE FURTHER BEHIND NOW BY ANY MEASURE. IT'S BEEN A TWO-MAN RACE FOR SEVERAL MONTHS. INFLATION HAS COME DOWN. IN THOSE LAST FEW MONTHS, HE'S BECOME A CONVICTED FELON, YET YOU'RE STILL FALLING FURTHER BEHIND. >> YOU GUYS KEEP SAYING THAT. GEORGE, YOU KNOW POLLING BETTER THAN ANYBODY. DO YOU THINK POLLING IS AS GOOD AS IT USED TO BE? >> George: I DON'T THINK SO, BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE POLLING DATA RIGHT NOW, HE'S SURGING AHEAD IN THE POPULAR VOTE, PROBABLY EVEN MORE AHEAD IN THE BATTLEGROUND STATES, AND ONE OF THE OTHER KEY FACTORS THERE, IS IT SHOWS THAT IN MANY OF THE BATTLEGROUND STATES, THE DEMOCRATS WHO ARE RUNNING FOR SENATE AND THE HOUSE ARE DOING BETTER THAN YOU ARE. >> THAT'S NOT UNUSUAL IN SOME STATES LIKE I CARRIED AN AWFUL LOT OF DEMOCRAT LAST TIME. LOOK. I REMEMBER THEM TELLING ME IN 2020. THE POLLS SHOW I CAN'T WIN. IN 2022, THE RED WAVE WAS COMING. BEFORE THE VOTE, I SAID THAT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. WE'RE GOING TO WIN. WE DID BETTER IN AN OFF YEAR THAN ALMOST ANY INCUMBENT PRESIDENT HAS DONE. THEY SAID IN 2023, ALL THE TOUGH RACES WE'RE NOT GOING TO WIN. ALL THOSE DISTRICTS, WE WON. >> George: ALL THAT IS TRUE, BUT 2020 WAS A CLOSE RACE, AND YOUR APPROVAL RATING HAS DROPPED SIGNIFICANTLY SINCE THEN. I THINK THE LAST POLL I SAW WAS ABOUT 36%. THE NUMBER OF AMERICANS WHO THINK YOU'RE TOO OLD TO SERVE HAS DOUBLED SINCE 2020. WOULDN'T THAT TELL YOU IT'S GOING TO BE MUCH TOUGHER TO WIN IN 2024? >> NOT WHEN YOU'RE RUNNING AGAINST A PATHOLOGICAL LIAR. NOT WHEN HE HASN'T BEEN CHALLENGED IN A WAY THAT HE'S ABOUT TO BE CHALLENGED. >> George: YOU HAD MONTHS TO CHALLENGE HIM. >> I HAD MONTHS, AND I WAS DOING A HELL OF A LOT OF OTHER THINGS LIKE WARS AROUND THE WORLD, LIKE KEEPING NAY TO TOGETHER, LIKE WORKING -- ANYWAY. BUT LOOK. >> George: DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE YOU'RE NOT BEHIND RIGHT NOW? >> I THINK IT'S -- ALL THE POLLSTERS I TALK TO TELL ME IT'S A TOSSUP, AND WHEN I'M BEHIND -- THERE'S ONLY ONE POLL I'M REALLY FAR BEHIND, CBS POLL, AND NBC -- I MEAN, EXCUSE ME. >> George: "THE NEW YORK TIMES" AND NBC HAVE YOU ABOUT SIX POINTS BEHIND IN THE POPULAR VOTE. >> THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT. "THE NEW YORK TIMES" HAD ME BEHIND BEFORE ANYTHING HAVING TO DO WITH THIS RACE, AND HAD ME BEHIND TEN POINTS. TEN POINTS, THEY HAD ME BEHIND. NOTHING'S CHANGED SINCE THE DEBATE IN "THE NEW YORK TIMES" POLL. >> George: IF YOU LOOK AT THE REALITY, MR. PRESIDENT, YOU WON THE POPULAR VOTE IN 2020, BUT IT WAS STILL DEADLY CLOSE IN THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE. >> BY 7 MILLION VOTES. >> George: YES, BUT YOU'RE BEHIND NOW IN THE POPULAR VOTE. >> I DON'T -- I DON'T BUY THAT. >> George: IS IT WORTH THE RISK? >> I DON'T THINK ANYBODY'S MORE QUALIFIED TO BE PRESIDENT OR WIN THIS RACE THAN ME. >> George: YOU KNOW, THE HEART OF YOUR CASE AGAINST DONALD TRUMP IS THAT HE'S ONLY OUT FOR HIMSELF, PUTTING HIS PERSONAL INTERESTS AHEAD OF THE NATIONAL INTEREST. HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO CRITICS WHO SAY THAT BY STAYING IN THE RACE YOU'RE DOING THE SAME THING? >> OH, COME ON. I DON'T THINK THOSE CRITICS KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT. >> George: THEY'RE JUST WRONG? >> THEY'RE JUST WRONG. LOOK. TRUMP IS A PATHOLOGICAL LIAR. TRUMP IS -- HE IS -- HAVE YOU EVER SEEN ANYTHING TRUMP DID THAT BENEFITTED SOMEBODY ELSE AND NOT HIM? YOU CAN'T ANSWER, I KNOW. >> George: I QUESTIONED HIM AND HIS ALLIES AS MUCH AS ANYBODY. >> I KNOW YOU HAVE. I'M NOT BEING CRITICAL. I'M NOT BEING CRITICAL, BUT LOOK. I MEAN, THE MAN IS A CONGENITAL LIAR. AS I SAID, THEY POINTED OUT IN THAT DEBATE, HE LIED 27, 28 TIMES. THEY NUMBERED OVER 20 TIMES, TALKING ABOUT HOW GOOD HIS ECONOMY WAS, HOW HE BROUGHT DOWN INFLATION, AND HOW -- THIS IS A GUY WHO UNLIKE ALL THE OTHER PRESIDENTS OTHER THAN HIM, HOOVER LOST MORE JOBS THAN THEY CREATED. HE TOLD US TO PUT BLEACH IN OUR ARMS TO DEAL WITH COVID WHEN OVER A MILLION PEOPLE DIED. HE TALKS ABOUT PEOPLE WHO WANTED TO GET RID OF THE HEALTH CARE PROVISION. THIS IS A GUY WHO WANTS TO GIVE THE POWER BACK TO BIG PHARMA TO BE ABLE TO CHALLENGE EXORBITANT PRICES FOR DRUGS. THIS IS A GUY THAT WANTS TO UNDO EVERY SINGLE THING I'VE DONE. >> George: I UNDERSTAND THAT, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT'S WHY YOU WANT TO STAY IN THE RACE, BUT HAVE YOU CONVINCED YOURSELF YOU CAN BEAT HIM? >> I CON VINCED MYSELF OF TWO THINGS, I'M QUALIFIED TO BEAT HIM, AND I CAN GET THINGS DONE. >> George: IF YOU CAN BE CONVINCED THAT YOU CANNOT DEFEAT DONALD TRUMP, WILL YOU STAND DOWN? >> THAT DEPENDS ON IF THE LORD ALMIGHTY COMES DOWN, I MIGHT DO THAT. >> George: "THE WASHINGTON POST" JUST REPORTED IN THE LAST HOUR THAT SENATOR MARK WARNER IS ASSEMBLING A GROUP OF SENATORS TOGETHER TO TRY TO CONVINCE YOU TO STAND DOWN BECAUSE THEY DON'T THINK YOU CAN WIN. >> WELL, MARK IS A GOOD MAN. WE'VE NEVER HAD THAT, YOU KNOW, HE ALSO TRIED TO GET THE NOMINATION TOO. MARK'S NOT -- MARK AND I HAVE A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE. I RESPECT HIM. >> George: AND IF CHUCK SCHUMER AND HAKEEM JEFFRIES AND NANCY PELOSI COME DOWN AND SAY, WE'RE WORRIED THAT IF YOU STAY IN THE RACE WE'RE GOING TO LOSE THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE, HOW WILL YOU RESPOND? >> I GO INTO DETAIL WITH THEM. I SPEAK WITH ALL OF THEM IN DETAIL, INCLUDING JIM CLYBURN. EVERY ONE OF THEM. THEY ALL SAID I SHOULD STAY IN THE RACE. STAY IN THE RACE. NO ONE SAID -- NONE OF THE PEOPLE SAID I SHOULD LEAVE. >> George: BUT IF THEY DO? >> IT'S, LIKE -- THEY'RE NOT GOING TO DO THAT. >> George: YOU'RE SURE? >> WELL, YEAH, I'M SURE. LOOK. I MEAN, IF THE LORD ALMIGHTY CAME DOWN AND SAID, JOE, GET OUT OF THE RACE, I WOULD GET OUT OF THE RACE, BUT THE LORD ALMIGHTY ISN'T GOING TO COME DOWN. THESE HYPOTHETICALS, GEORGE -- >> George: IT'S NOT THAT HYPOTHETICAL NAME. I GRANT THAT THEY HAVE NOT REQUESTED THE MEETING, BUT IT'S BEEN REPORTED -- >> I MET WITH THEM. I MET WITH A LOT OF THESE PEOPLE. I TALK WITH THEM REGULARLY. I HAD AN HOUR CONVERSATION WITH HAKEEM. I HAD MORE TIME THAN THAT WITH JIM CLYBURN. I SPENT TIME WITH -- MANY HOURS OFF AND ON WITH CHUCK SCHUMER. IT'S NOT LIKE -- I HAD ALL THE GOVERNORS, ALL THE GOVERNORS. >> George: I AGREE THAT THE LORD ALMIGHTY IS NOT GOING TO COME DOWN, BUT IF YOU ARE TOLD RELIABLY FROM YOUR ALLIES, FROM YOUR FRIENDS AND SUPPORTERS IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IN THE HOUSE AND SENATE, THAT THEY'RE CONCERNED YOU'RE GOING TO LOSE THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE IF YOU STAY IN, WHAT WILL YOU DO? >> I'M NOT GOING TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION. IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. >> George: WHAT'S YOUR PLAN TO TURN THE CAMPAIGN AROUND? >> YOU SAW IT TODAY. HOW MANY -- HOW MANY PEOPLE CAN DRAW CROWDS LIKE YOU DREW? CAN YOU FIND MORE ENTHUSIASTIC TODAY? >> George: I DON'T THINK YOU WANT TO PLAY THE CROWD GAME. DONALD TRUMP CAN DRAW BIG CROWDS. >> HE CAN DRAW A BIG CROWD, BUT WHAT'S HE SAY? WHO'S HE HAVE? I'M THE GUY THAT'S SUPPOSED TO BE IN TROUBLE. WE RAISED $38 MILLION WITHIN FOUR DAYS AFTER THIS -- WE HAVE OVER A MILLION INDIVIDUAL CONTRIBUTORS. INDIVIDUAL CONTRIBUTORS. THAT'S LESS THAN 200 BUCKS. I MEAN, I'VE NOT EVEN WHAT YOU'RE PROPOSING. >> George: YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE FALLOFF IN THE POLLS. YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE REPORTS OF DISCONTENT IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTIES? HOUSE DEMOCRATS, SENATE DEMOCRATS? >> I'VE SEEN IT FROM THE PRESS. >> George: I'VE HEARD FROM DOZEN OF YOUR SUPPORTERS IN THE LAST FEW DAYS AND A VARIETY OF VIEWS, I GRANT YOU THAT. THE PREVAILING SENTIMENT IS THIS. THEY LOVE YOU AND THEY WILL FOREVER BE GRATEFUL TO YOU FOR BEATING DONALD TRUMP IN 2020. THEY THINK YOU'VE DONE A GREAT JOB AS PRESIDENT, AND THE SUCCESSES YOU OUTLINE, BUT THEY DON'T THINK YOU CAN WIN. THEY WANT YOU TO GO WITH GRACE AND THEY WILL CHEER YOU IF YOU DO. WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THAT? >> I SAY THE VAST MAJORITY ARE NOT WHERE THOSE FOLKS ARE. NOT WITH WHERE THOSE FOLKS ARE. I DON'T DOUBT THERE ARE SOME FOLKS THERE. HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A GROUP IN TIME WHEN ELECTED OFFICIALS RUNNING FOR OFFICE AREN'T A LITTLE WORRIED? HAVE YOU EVER SEEN THAT? I HAVE NOT. SAME THING HAPPENED IN 2020. BIDEN, I DON'T KNOW, MAN. WHAT'S HE GOING TO DO? HE MAY BRING ME DOWN. >> George: MR. PRESIDENT, I'VE NEVER SEEN A PRESIDENT WITH 36% APPROVAL GET RE-ELECTED. >> I DON'T BELIEVE THAT'S MY APPROVAL RATING. THAT'S NOT WHAT OUR POLL SHOWS. >> George: IF YOU STAY IN, AND TRUMP IS ELECTED AND EVERYTHING YOU'RE WARNING ABOUT COMES TO PASS, HOW WILL YOU FEEL IN JANUARY? >> I'LL FEEL AS LONG AS I GAVE IT MY ALL AND I DID THE GOODEST JOB I KNOW I CAN DO -- THAT'S WHAT THIS IS ABOUT. LOOK, GEORGE. LOOK AT IT THIS WAY. YOU'VE HEARD ME SAY THIS BEFORE. I THINK THE UNITED STATES IN THE WORLD IS AN INFLECTION POINT. WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN THE NEXT SEVEN YEARS WILL DETERMINE WHAT THE NEXT SIX, SERVE DECADES LOOKS LIKE. WHO WILL BE ABLE TO HOLD NATO TOGETHER LIKE ME? WHO'S GOING TO BE IN A POSITION WHERE I'M ABLE TO KEEP THE PACIFIC BASIN IN A POSITION WHERE WE'RE AT LEAST CHECKMATING CHINA NOW? WHO'S GOING TO -- WHO'S GOING TO DO THAT? WHO HAS THAT REACH? WHO KNOWS ALL THESE -- WE'RE GOING TO HAVE -- I GUESS, A GOOD WAY TO JUDGE ME IS YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE NOW THE NATO CONFERENCE IN THE UNITED STATES NEXT WEEK. COME LISTEN. SEE WHAT THEY SAY. >> George: MR. PRESIDENT, THANKS FOR YOUR TIME. >> THANK YOU. >> George: OUR THANKS TO THE PRESIDENT FOR HIS TIME. ABC NEWS ALSO OFFERED AN INTERVIEW TO DONALD TRUMP. HE DECLINED OUR INVITATION. THE ROUND TABLE IS UP NEXT. WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK. >>> LIKE A LOT OF PEOPLE, I WAS PRETTY HORRIFIED. I THINK PEOPLE WANT TO MAKE SURE THIS IS A CAMPAIGN THAT'S READY GO AND WIN, THAT THE PRESIDENT AND HIS TEAM ARE BEING CANDID WITH US ABOUT HIS CONDITION, THAT THIS WAS A REAL ANOMALY AND NOT JUST THE WAY HE IS THESE DAYS. >> COMING HOME TO TEXAS THIS WEEKEND, I WOULD SAY THAT THE INPUT FROM MY CONSTITUENTS HAS BEEN 10-1 IN FAVOR OF REPLACING PRESIDENT BIDEN ON THE TICKET. >> I SAY, MR. PRESIDENT, YOUR LEGACY IS SET. WE OWE YOU THE GREATEST DEBT OF GRATITUDE. THE ONLY THING THAT YOU CAN DO NOW TO CEMENT THAT FOR ALL TIME AND PREVENT UTTER CATASTROPHE IS TO STEP DOWN AND LET SOMEONE ELSE DO THIS. >> George: REACTIONS FROM DEMOCRATS TO THE PRESIDENT'S DEBATE PERFORMANCE AND OUR INTERVIEW ON FRIDAY NIGHT. ONE OF THE THINGS WE'LL TALK ABOUT ON THE ROUND TABLE, JOINED BY FORMER DNC CHAIR DONNA BRAZILE, SARAH ISGUR, SUSAN PAGE, AND "WASHINGTON POST" MARIANA SOTOMAYOR. WHERE DO YOU THINK THINGS STAND INSIDE THE PARTY FOR PRESIDENT BIDEN RIGHT NOW? >> WELL, GEORGE, THIS IS A CRITICAL TIME FOR THE COUNTRY. IT'S A VERY CHALLENGE TIME FOR THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. PERHAPS A SAD AND DIFFICULT MOMENT FOR THE BIDEN FAMILY. WE KNOW THE STAKES ARE VERY HIGH. WE KNOW WHAT'S ON THE LINE. KEEPING CONTROL OF THE UNITED STATES SENATE, TAKING BACK THE UNITED STATES HOUSE, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, WE ALSO HAVE TO REASSURE, AND THE PRESIDENT IS GOING TO HAVE TO DO IT AS WELL AS THOSE OF US IN THE PARTY, REASSURE THE COUNTRY, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, THE DELEGATES. IN TWO WEEKS, I'M ON THE CREDENTIALS COMMITTEE. I KNOW MANY OF YOU THINK I'M PAST MY PRIME, BUT LET ME JUST TELL YOU, I GOT MORE TO DO, BUT THE CREDENTIALS COMMITTEE WILL HAVE TO SEND BALLOTS TO ALL 4,000-PLUS DELEGATES. AUTOMATIC DELEGATES WHICH I AM ONE, WE'RE NO LONGER SUPER. WE LOST THAT ABILITY TO VOTE ON THE FIRST BALLOT. THOSE DELEGATES WHO HAVE BY AND LARGE BEEN SUPPORTIVE OF THE PRESIDENT, THEY HAVE PLEDGED TO THE PRESIDENT, THEY WILL SUBMIT THEIR BALLOTS, HOPEFULLY WITHIN ONE WEEK, AND WE WILL PROBABLY ASCERTAIN BETTER THAN ANY POLLSTER, BETTER THAN ANY PUNDIT, BETTER THAN ANY STRATEGIST JUST WHERE THE PRESIDENT STANDS WITH HIS OWN DELEGATES BECAUSE ONCE THE DELEGATES NOMINATE HIM, THEN THE PRESIDENT WILL HAVE TO GO TO THE CONVENTION AND EITHER RELEASE THOSE DELEGATES BY MAKING AN ANNOUNCEMENT OR THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY WILL HAVE TO DECIDE THE DAY AFTER THE CONVENTION WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE? >> George: THAT MEANS THE CLOCK IS TICKING. SUSAN PAGE, COMING OUT OF THE DEBATE AND IN THE INTERVIEW FRIDAY NIGHT, IT APPEARS THE GENERAL CONSENSUS IS THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN DID NOT DO AS BADLY AS IN THE DEBATE, BUT MAY NOT HAVE DONE ENOUGH TO REASSURE AT LEAST ALL DEMOCRATS. >> YEAH. FOR SOME DEMOCRATS, THIS WAS THE WORST OF ALL WORLDS BECAUSE HE WAS BETTER THAN HE WAS IN THE DEBATE. ON THE OTHER HAND, HOW COULD HE NOT BE? AND ON THE OTHER HAND, HE WASN'T AS COMPELLING AND CRISP AND CLEAR AS HE WOULD NEED TO BE TO SETTLE THE ISSUE OF HIS QUESTIONS ABOUT HIS MENTAL ACUITY, AND HE REFUSED TO AGREE TO INDEPENDENT MEDICAL TESTS TO DETERMINE WHETHER THERE'S SOME MEDICAL CONDITION GOING ON HERE THAT AMERICANS WOULD HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW ABOUT IF THEY WERE GOING TO RE-ELECT HIM AS PRESIDENT. SO IT WAS -- THIS WAS MORE OF A HOLDING ACTION THAN DETERMINING, I THINK, WHICH COURSE. >> George: MANY ARGUING -- TRUMP SHOULD HAVE TO SUBMIT TO THE SAME TIME AS TESTING. THE FORMER PRESIDENT HAS BEEN UNCHARACTERISTICALLY QUIET OVER THE LAST SEVERAL DAY. >> OH, I DON'T KNOW. ON SOCIAL MEDIA, HE'S BEEN PRETTY LOUD AND HIS NORMAL, BOMBASTIC SELF. I THINK THIS HAS OVERWHELMED A LOT OF THAT COVERAGE. HE'S NOT ON TWITTER ANYMORE. HE'S NOT DOING THE PUBLIC EVENTS, YOU KNOW, AND INTERVIEWS THAT MIGHT STEP ON THE DEMOCRATIC MESSAGE, BUT, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY WHEN YOU SEE YOUR OPPONENT STRUGGLING LIKE THIS, THE CORRECT POLITICAL STRATEGY IS TO LET IT HAPPEN AND GET OUT OF THE WAY. >> George: PROBABLY THE MOST CRITICAL AUDIENCE ARE DEMOCRATS IN THE HOUSE AND SENATE. LET'S WALK THROUGH WHAT'S GOING TO BE HAPPENING OVER THE NEXT SEVERAL HOURS. WE'VE SEEN A HANDFUL OF HOUSE DEMOCRATS STILL A SMALL MINORITY, COME OUT AND SAY THAT THE PRESIDENT SHOULD STEP ASIDE, BUT THERE'S GOING TO BE KEY MEETING TODAY ON ZOOM HELD BY HAKEEM JEFFRIES, THE DEMOCRATIC LEADER IN THE HOUSE. >> YES. HE'S GOING TO BE SPEAKING TO THE RANKING MEMBERS ON COMMITTEES TO BE ABLE TO TALK THROUGH WHAT THESE MEMBERS ARE HEARING, HOW THEY'RE FEELING. IT'S ALSO A TYPE OF MEETING THAT HAPPENS WEEKLY ON WEDNESDAYS, BUT THEY'VE MOVED IT UP BECAUSE THEY KNOW HOW UNPREDICTABLE THIS WEEK WILL BE. IT'S SOMETHING BOTH THE SENATORS AND MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE WILL BE TOGETHER SINCE THE DEBATE, SINCE FALLOUT, SINCE THEY HAVE HEARD FROM THE CAMPAIGN AND THE WHITE HOUSE. MANY DEMOCRATS ARE SO ANGRY AND HAVE LOST TRUST TO THE POINT WHERE MANY HAVE TOLD ME IT'S COMPLETELY IRREPARABLE BECAUSE THE WHITE HOUSE AND CAMPAIGN ARE SAYING, THEY'RE SPINNING. THEY'RE SAYING BIDEN'S GOING TO BE FINE. IT'S JUST A BAD NIGHT. EVERYONE ON CAPITOL HILL SAW WHAT MANY AMERICANS SAW. THEY'RE HEARING IT FROM CONSTITUENTS, AND I HAVE TO SAY IT REALLY IS, AS MANY DEMOCRATS HAVE POINTED OUT TO ME, A VERY PAINFUL MOMENT FOR THEM. IT'S A SOMBER MOMENT. THEY KNOW THEY'RE GOING TO GO INTO THESE MEETINGS BEHIND CLOSED DOORS WITH MEMBERS. IT'S GOING TO BE VERY EMOTIONAL, AND THERE ARE A NUMBER OF HOUSE DEMOCRATS AND SENATORS WHO ARE STILL BEHIND BIDEN, WHO ARE IN THOSE GROUP TEXTS SAYING, NO. WE NEED TO STICK WITH THE PRESIDENT, BUT ALMOST EVERYONE THAT I HAVE SPOKEN TO, ESPECIALLY ON THE HOUSE SIDE SAY, YOU KNOW, AT SOME POINT THIS WEEK, THE COLLECTIVE ALREADY IS THAT MANY DEMOCRATS WANT BIDEN TO STEP ASIDE AND THE INTERVIEW ON FRIDAY WHEN HE SAID, YOU KNOW, IT WAS THROUGH THE -- WE'VE ONLY HEARD CONCERNS THROUGH THE PRESS. THAT HAS ONLY EMBOLDENED DEMOCRATS TO MORE THAN LIKELY GO PUBLIC THIS WEEK. >> George: I WANT TO BROADEN THE CONVERSATION, BUT BEFORE ME MONTH, I ASKED PRESIDENT BIDEN ABOUT THIS MOVE BY SENATOR MARK WARNER TO ORGANIZE SENATE DEMOCRATS, SOME KIND OF A LETTER BY SENATE DEMOCRATS. WHY DOES THAT STAND RIGHT NOW? >> YEAH, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF SENATORS WERE WILLING TO HEAR OUT SENATOR WARNER, BUT THEY WERE WAITING TO SEE HOW BIDEN PERFORMED ON FRIDAY, AND REALLY THE MOVEMENT OF THIS LETTER OR IT WAS GOING TO BE EITHER A LETTER OR TO GO TO THE WHITE HOUSE AT SOME POINT THIS WEEK. THOSE CONVERSATIONS ARE STILL ONGOING. I THINK THERE IS SOMETHING TO SAY TOO ABOUT THE SENATE. BIDEN, FORMER SENATOR. THE WHITE HOUSE HAS DONE SO MUCH TO TRY AND KEEP THAT COALITION TOGETHER. THE FACT THAT WE ARE SEEING FRACTURES THERE IS MORE SURPRISING. >> George: THE ONE QUESTION THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN WOULD NOT ANSWER IN THAT 22-MINUTE INTERVIEW IS WHAT HE WOULD DO IF HAKEEM JEFFRIES AND NANCY PELOSI AND THE SENATE DEMOCRATS -- SENATE DEMOCRATIC LEADER, CHUCK SCHUMER CAME DOWN TO THE WHITE HOUSE AND SAID, WE'RE GOING TO LOSE THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE IF YOU DON'T GO. HE WOULD NOT ANSWER THAT QUESTION. WHERE DO YOU THINK THINGS STAND INSIDE THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE RIGHT NOW? >> I AGREE. THERE'S A LOT OF FRUSTRATION. LOOK. I LIKE TO PICK UP THE PHONE AND CALL MEMBERS. I LIKE TO TALK TO THEM. I HAVE BEEN TALKING TO AS MANY AS POSSIBLE ALONG WITH STATE PARTY CHAIRS AND DELEGATION LEADERS TO SAY, THE DELEGATES ARE IN CHARGE OF THIS PROCESS. I RECOGNIZE MEMBERS OF CONGRESS AS THEY HAVE A LOT OF POWER. THEY CAN SPEAK TO THE MEDIA, BUT THE DELEGATES ARE IN CHARGE OF THIS PROCESS. DEMOCRATS ARE NOT GOING TO OVERTURN THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE, BUT IF DELEGATES GET THIS SENSE THAT WE'RE GOING TO LOSE IT ALL, THAT BECOMES A PROBLEM FOR THE PRESIDENT. THE PRESIDENT STILL HAS TIME. I MENTIONED TWO WEEKS FROM NOW. >> George: HOW MUCH TIME DOES HE REALLY HAVE? IS IT REALLY TWO WEEKS? >> 121 WEEKS, GEORGE. CAN YOU PUT BACK THE CAMPAIGN IN 121 DAYS? HELL YEAH, BUT IT WILL NOT BE THE CAMPAIGN YOU SAW BEFORE THAT DEBATE, AND IT WILL NOT BE THE CAMPAIGN THAT I'VE SEEN AFTER THE DEBATE. STOP -- YOU KNOW WHAT ONE OF MY NEIGHBORS TOLD ME? I LIVE IN A LIBERAL NEIGHBORHOOD. DON'T MOVE TO ANY NEIGHBORHOOD, SARAH. PEOPLE SAY THEY GASLIGHT US. PEOPLE ARE ANGRY ON BOTH SIDES. I'VE HEARD PEOPLE ON THE FOX SAYING, WHY ARE YOU QUESTIONING HIM? WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER GUY? YOU'RE COMPARING HIM TO THE ALMIGHTY, NOT THE ALTERNATIVE. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE HEARING FROM DEMOCRATS. IT'S A LOT OF ANGER AND A LOT OF EMOTION, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, I WANT TO CALM THE WATERS. I WANT TO SAY, THERE'S A PROCESS, AND THIS PROCESS STARTS WITH THE FACT THAT JOE BIDEN SECURED THE NOMINATION BY GETTING THE VOTES FOR THE DELEGATES. THAT'S THE PROCESS. I MAY SOUND LIKE I'M TALKING ABOUT NUMBERS, BUT I'M TALKING ABOUT HOW DEMOCRATS WILL HAVE TO MOVE IN THE COMING DAYS. >> George: SUSAN PAGE, ONE OF THE THINGS WE'RE SEEING HERE AND IT'S A STARK RELIEF, IS THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE MODERN DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND THE MODERN REPUBLICAN PARTY. DONALD TRUMP CONVICTED OF A FELONY, INDICTED FOR TRYING TO OVERTURN AN ELECTION, LYING ABOUT THE LAST ELECTION, YET THEY CLOSE RANKS. >> NO QUESTION ABOUT WHO'S GOING TO BE THE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE. A HUGE QUESTION ABOUT WHO WILL BE THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE. YOU WON'T CHANGE THAT UNLESS JOE BIDEN AGREES TO DO IT. YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO CONVINCE DELEGATES, ALMOST ALL OF WHOM ARE COMMITTED TO HIM, ALTHOUGH NOT LEGALLY COMMITTED, BUT PLEDGED TO HIM AND THEY WERE CHOSEN BECAUSE THEY WERE BIDEN LOYALISTS, THAT THEY WILL MOVE AWAY AND HE'LL SAY, I'VE DECIDED IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO IS STEP DOWN, AND HERE'S HOW HE MOVE FORWARD TO HAVE A CHANCE TO WIN IN NOVEMBER, AND THAT'S WHY IN THE OPENING HE LEFT WITH A CONGRESSIONAL DELEGATION COMING TO HIM WAS SO IMPORTANT. HE DIDN'T SAY HE WOULDN'T LISTEN TO THEM. HE SAID, THEY WON'T DO THAT. >> George: THEY WON'T COME. >> LET'S SEE THIS WEEK BECAUSE TIME IS RUNNING OUT. LET'S SEE IF THEY DO THAT. >> Dr. Darien: -- >> George: DONALD TRUMP WANTS TO RUN AGAINST JOE BIDEN. >> I THINK THAT'S RIGHT. I THINK COMPARED TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IN 2016 PARTICULARLY AFTER THE "ACCESS HOLLYWOOD" TAPE, THERE WAS A LOT OF CONVERSATION AMONG REPUBLICANS ABOUT REPLACING DONALD TRUMP ALL THE WAY TO THE HIGHEST LEVELS OF THE RBS RNC. OF COURSE, IT WAS AFTER THE CONVENTION AT THAT POINT. ASK YOURSELF WHETHER DEMOCRATS WOULD BE HAVING THE SAME CONVERSATION TODAY IF JOE BIDEN WERE LEADING DONALD TRUMP. IT'S THE REASON WHY REPUBLICANS AREN'T TALKING ABOUT REPLACING DONALD TRUMP. HE LOOKS LIKE HE'S GOING TO WIN HANDILY AT THIS POINT FROM AN ELECTORAL STANDPOINT. IT COULD BE ONE OF THE LARGEST VICTORIES WE'VE SEEN IN A LONG TIME. SO YES, THEY WANT TO RUN AGAINST JOE BIDEN AT THIS MOMENT, BUT THEY SEE HARRIS AS VULNERABLE AS WELL. IT'S A WIN-WIN RIGHT NOW FOR REPUBLICANS. >> George: IT'S ALL HYPOTHETICAL, BUT LET'S TALK ABOUT THE POSSIBILITIES IF PRESIDENT BIDEN DOES INDEED STEP ASIDE. FOREGONE CONCLUSION THAT HARRIS GETS THE NOMINATION? >> IT WOULD BE VERY DIFFICULT TO REPLACE SOMEBODY WHO'S BEEN VETTED, WHO KNOWS THE JOB AND HAS DONE A TREMENDOUS -- I THINK SHE'S DONE A TREMENDOUS JOB AND TO ASK THE DELEGATES ELECTED TO THE CONVENTION, TO BYPASS KAMALA HARRIS BECAUSE SOME REPUBLICANS AND A FEW OTHERS MAY NOT LIKE HER, IT WOULD BE POLITICAL MALPRACTICE. AS I TELL EVERYONE, KAMALA HARRIS HAS EARNED THE RIGHT TO BE CONSIDERED IF -- I MEAN, WE GOT A LOT OF WHAT IF SCENARIOS, BUT SHE'S STRONG. SHE'S DOWN IN LOUISIANA. SHE WAS ABLE TO -- SHE HAD A RALLY LAST NIGHT WITH 60,000 PEOPLE. I'VE HEARD FROM SO MANY FOLKS INCLUDING MY FAMILY. THEY SAY SHE'S FIRED UP AND READY TO GO, AND THEY'RE NOT GOING TO REPLACE HER. >> George: SUSAN PAGE, YOU GOT OTHERS CALLING FOR A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT PROCESS, MAYBE A SERIES OF TOWN MEETINGS, A SERIES OF DEBATES. IS THAT REALISTIC? >> NO. I DON'T THINK IT IS. I THINK THAT SHIP HAS SAILED. THE DEMOCRATS DON'T HAVE MUCH TIME BEFORE THE VIRTUAL ROLL CALL WE EXPECT THEM TO HAVE BY AUGUST 7th. IF PRESIDENT BIDEN DECIDES TO STEP BACK, THE LIKELY SCENARIO, NOT GUARANTEED -- THE LIKELY SCENARIO IS HE ENDORSES KAMALA HARRIS. THE DEBATE BECOMES WHO'S HER RUNNING MATE, AND YOU -- THE HOPE IS -- >> George: I SHOULD ADD ONE OTHER POSSIBILITY. AT LEAST IT'S ANOTHER POSSIBILITY. SOME WOULD ARGUE IS TO ACTUALLY RESIGN THE OFFICE SO THAT KAMALA HARRIS CAN ONE AS INCUMBENT. >> IT'S HARD ENOUGH TO GET HIM TO MAKE HIM LIMIT HIS FIRST TERM WHICH HAS BEEN BY MANY ACCOUNTS CONSEQUENTIAL. I THINK THAT'S A BRIDGE TOO FAR. I THINK THAT'S UNLIKELY. >> George: YOU TALK ABOUT THE SITUATION IN THE HOUSE AND SENATE. THAT SEEMED TO BE SOMEWHAT DIFFERENT FROM AT LEAST SOME OF THE MESSAGE THE PRESIDENT GOT WHEN THE GOVERNORS CAME DOWN TO THE WHITE HOUSE. I THINK IT WAS ON WEDNESDAY. ON WEDNESDAY NIGHT, AND SOME REASON FOR THAT WAS PERHAPS A LOT OF THESE GOVERNORS WERE LOOKING AHEAD TO 2028, AND THEY KNOW IF HE GOT OUT NOW, HE WOULD LIKELY BE FORE CLOSED FROM THAT IF KAMALA HARRIS WERE THE NOMINEE THIS TIME AROUND. >> IT'S INTERESTING. MANY DEMOCRATS ARE CONSIDERING WHEN DISCUSSING THIS, THE NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS. THE NEXT THING I HEAR FROM CAPITOL HILL IS, HE LIKELY COULD AFFECT THESE DOWNBALLOT CANDIDATES, BUT LET'S THINK ABOUT THE MIDTERMS. THAT IS WHERE A LOT OF HOUSE DEMOCRATS IN PARTICULAR ARE EXTREMELY WORRIED. YES, LET'S SAY IF BIDEN WERE TO WIN, HOW IS HE GOING TO BE AS PRESIDENT IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS? WHAT IF HE DOES DIMINISH MORE? ESPECIALLY RIGHT BEFORE THE MIDTERMS. THAT COULD REALLY HURT THE CHANCES OF LET'S SAY HOUSE DEMOCRATS IF THEY WIN BACK THE MAJORITY, THEY COULD LOSE IT AGAIN IN A COUPLE OF YEARS. THERE'S A LOT OF THOSE CONVERSATIONS AND WHAT IFS. >> George: THERE'S A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN IF DONALD TRUMP WINS, BETWEEN DONALD TRUMP WINNING AND CARRYING THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE WITH HIM, AND DONALD TRUMP WINNING AND EITHER LOSING THE HOUSE AND/OR THE SENATE. >> WELL, THE LAST SEVERAL PRESIDENCIES OF COURSE, BARACK OBAMA, DONALD TRUMP, JOE BIDEN, HAVE ALL CARRIED THE HOUSE AND SENATE WITH THEM HEADING INTO THEIR TERMS. SO THEY HAVE HAD THOSE FIRST TWO YEARS TO REALLY PURSUE A LEGISLATIVE AGENDA, TO APPOINT JUDGES FOR INSTANCE, WITH THE SENATE. IT WOULD BE A HUGE DIFFERENCE FOR DEMOCRATS TO HAVE A DONALD TRUMP PINNED IN BY DEMOCRATIC HOUSE OR SENATE, FRANKLY, AND ONE IN WHICH DONALD TRUMP SWEEPS ALL OF THOSE, BUT AGAIN, THE MATH IS LOOKING DIRE FOR DEMOCRATS ACROSS THE BOARD. AT THE SENATE LEVEL, AT THE HOUSE LEVEL, AND OF COURSE, IN THE SWING STATES THAT JOE BIDEN WON IN 2020. >> George: 30 SECONDS LEFT. I'LL GO AROUND THE TABLE. WILL JOE BIDEN BE THE NOMINEE? >> STATUS QUO WINS IN D.C. YES. >> THIS WEEK ON CAPITOL HILL. >> YOU GOT ME. >> HE'S THE NOMINEE OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND THE LEADER OF THE FREE WORLD. >> George: UP NEXT, ONE WEEK FROM THE GOP CONVENTION IN MILWAUKEE, WE'LL TAKE YOU INSIDE THE SECURITY PREPARATIONS AND SPEAK WITH THE DIRECTOR OF THE SECRET SERVICE. >> George: THIS SUMMER'S CONVENTIONS IN MILWAUKEE AND CHICAGO ARE SURE TO DRAW SIGNIFICANT PROTESTS AND SECURITY THREATS. THE SECRET SERVICE SUPERVISES BOTH CONVENTIONS. PIERRE THOMAS GOT AN EXCLUSIVE LOOK AT HOW THEY'RE WORKING WITH LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT TO KEEP THE CONVENTIONS SAFE. >> Reporter: THE UNMISTAKABLE SMELL OF BURNING RUBBER AS WE WITNESSED FIRSTHAND SECRET SERVICE TRAINING THAT WILL BE CRITICAL TO THE SECURITY OF PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN AND FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP DURING THEIR UPCOMING PARTY CONVENTIONS. IT'S HOW AGENTS MUST DRIVE IF A MOTORCADE WERE ATTACKED. THE ABILITY TO APPROACH 90 MILES PER HOUR ON NARROW STREETS, NAVIGATE TIGHT CORNERS, STOP ON A DIME, REVERSE COURSE, AND NOT LEAVE A TRACE OF DAMAGE. >> NO CONES KNOCKED OVER, I SEE. >> NO, SIR. THAT'S THE KEY. >> Reporter: A SHORT DISTANCE AWAY, AGENTS TRAINING FOR ONE OF MANY POTENTIAL WORST-CASE SCENARIOS. SECRET SERVICE COUNTERASSAULT TEAM JUMPS OUT, MOVING TOWARD WOULD-BE TERRORISTS FIRING AWAY. >> WE HAVE TO TRAIN FROM THE LONE WOLF GUNMAN ALL THE WAY UP TO POSSIBLY STATE-SPONSORED TERRORIST ATTACKS. >> Reporter: THE POINT, TO HAVE LETHAL FORCE AT THE READY. >> WE USE SPEED, SURPRISE, AND VIOLENCE OF ACTION. >> BUT THE STAKES COULDN'T BE HIGHER, RIGHT? >> ABSOLUTELY. IT'S A NO-FAIL MISSION. >> Reporter: WITH THE REPUBLICAN CONVENTION ONLY ABOUT A WEEK AWAY, THE SECRET SERVICE AND THE ARMY OF FEDERAL AND LOCAL AGENCIES ARE WORKING AROUND THE CLOCK FOR A THREAT IN A DEEPLY DIVIDED COUNTRY, AND WHAT THE FBI DIRECTOR HAS SUGGESTED IS PERHAPS THE MOST CHALLENGING ENVIRONMENT SINCE 9/11. SECURITY PACKAGE HERE IN MILWAUKEE FOR THE RNC CONVENTION MORE THAN A YEAR IN THE MAKING. ABC NEWS INSIDE THE SECURE JOINT COMMAND CENTER AT A SECRET LOCATION. >> I MOVED TO MILWAUKEE FULL-TIME IN AUGUST OF 2023. THIS HAS BEEN ANY EXCLUSIVE ROLE WITHIN THE SECRET SERVICE, IS TO COORDINATE THE SECURITY PLANNED THEIR IF EVENT. >> Reporter: EVERYTHING MUST BE PROTECTED, EVEN VAST LAKE MICHIGAN. >> THIS IS AN ACCESSIBLE AREA FOR GETTING ONTO THE PROPERTY, AND THIS NEEDS TO BE, AGAIN, MONITORED. THERE IS A LEVEL OF SURVEILLANCE AND RESTRICTIONS. >> Reporter: HELICOPTERS WILL PATROL THE SKIES, AND THE SECRET SERVICE HAS A TEAM TO COUNTER A NEW POTENTIALLY LETHAL THREAT, DRONES. TO GET THE JOB DONE, THE SECRET SERVICE HAS ITS OWN CODRY DRONES. >> IF WE GET A MEDICAL SITUATION, WE CAN USE THE DRONE TO GO OVER THERE, IDENTIFY THE MEDICAL SITUATION AND DIRECT OUR FIRST RESPONDERS TO THAT AREA. >> Reporter: WE MET WITH A SECRET SERVICE AGENT OVERSEEING SECURITY FOR THE DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION IN AUGUST. >> IT IS VERY SERIOUS. WE'RE NOT ONLY HERE TO ENSURE THE SAFETY OF THE ATTENDEES OF THE CONVENTION, BUT THERE'S ALSO 2.7 MILLION RESIDENTS AT THE CITY OF CHICAGO THAT LIVE AND WORK HERE EVERY DAY. >> KEEP IT UP. >> Reporter: THE CHICAGO POLICE PLAN TO PUT HUNDREDS OF OFFICERS ON BIKES FOR CROWD CONTROL. >> THE BIKES ARE ABLE TO GET AROUND WITHOUT TRAFFIC THROUGH SIDE STREETS, AROUND THE VENUES. WE CAN MOVE THEM AND BE ABLE TO MOBILIZE THEM. >> Reporter: THESE COPS MINDFUL NOT ONLY OF THE THREAT OF TERROR, BUT HOW CROWDS THEMSELVES CAN BECOME A SECURITY THREAT. [ CHANTING ] NO ONE HAS FORGOTTEN THE VIOLENCE OF THE DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION IN CHICAGO IN 1968. [ CHANTING ] >> Reporter: OR THE RECENT TENSE SITUATIONS INVOLVING WAR PROTESTS OVER THE ISRAELI/HAMAS WAR. >> PEOPLE WHO ARE SHOWING UP TO HAVE THEIR VOICES HEARD, WE WANT TO PROTECT THOSE RIGHTS, BUT WE'RE ALSO PREPARING AND TRAINING FOR WHEN THINGS CAN'T BE DE-ESCALATED AND THEY GO OFFSCALE. >> Reporter: IT'S A DEADLY, SERIOUS MOMENT. FOR "THIS WEEK," PIERRE THOMAS, ABC NEWS. >> George: THANKS TO PIERRE FOR THAT. SECRET SERVICE DIRECTOR KIMBERLY CHEATLE IS NEXT. >> George: WELCOME BACK. WE'RE JOINED NOW BY SECRET SERVICE DIRECTOR KIMBERLY CHEATLE. THANK YOU FOR COMING IN TODAY, MADAM DIRECTOR, AND LET'S JUST START WITH THE OVERALL THREAT ENVIRONMENT. HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE IT RIGHT NOW? >> ABSOLUTELY. THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME TODAY. YOU KNOW, I THINK THE OVERALL THREAT ENVIRONMENT HAS CONSTANTLY BE EVOLVING AS WE'VE GONE THROUGH THE PAST CONVENTIONS IN NUMEROUS YEARS. WE HAVE BEEN PLANNING THIS NOW FOR A YEAR AND A HALF IN BOTH MILWAUKEE AND CHICAGO. OUR FOLKS ARE WORKING TOGETHER WITH THE MILWAUKEE POLICE DEPARTMENT, CHICAGO POLICE DEPARTMENT, TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE PREPARED AND WE'RE READY TO MITIGATE ANY THREAT. >> George: IS THE GREATER THREAT NOW HOMEGROWN TERRORISTS OR FOREIGN TERRORISM? >> I THINK IT'S PROBABLY A LITTLE BIT OF BOTH. WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE WE ARE ASSESSING THE RISK FOR BOTH OF THOSE AS WELL AS ANY OTHER TYPE OF THREAT THAT MAY COME AT US, WHETHER IT'S A LONE GUNMAN, ORGANIZED ATTACK OR AN ORGANIZED GROUP. WE TRY TO COVER ALL THAT. >> George: HOW IS THE CURRENT DIVISION IN THE COUNTRY? THE EXTREME POLITICAL POLARIZATION, HOW DOES THAT FEED INTO THE THREAT ENVIRONMENT? >> I THINK IT PLAYS INTO IT. I THINK THE ENVIRONMENT WE'RE DEALING WITH TODAY IS CERTAINLY DIFFERENT THAN IT WAS FOUR YEARS AGO. I'M SURE WE'LL SEE AN EVOLUTION IN THE NEXT FOUR YEARS AS WELL. IT'S SOMETHING WE TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION. >> George: ARE THERE CONSIDERABLE THREATS RIGHT NOW? >> THERE'S NOTHING SPECIFIC AND NOTHING CREDIBLE OUT THERE RIGHT NOW, BUT WE ARE TRACKING ALL THREAT STREAMS AND WE WORK WITH OUR PARTNERS AT THE FBI AND THEY SUPPLY THAT INFORMATION TO US. >> George: ONE OF THE THINGS YOU HAVE TO DO RIGHT NOW IS BALANCING OUT THE RIGHT TO PROTEST WITH THE NEED TO KEEP THE CONVENTION SECURE. TALK ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT. >> ABSOLUTELY. THE SECRET SERVICE AS WELL AS THE MILWAUKEE AND CHICAGO POLICE DEPARTMENT, OBVIOUSLY RESPECT THE RIGHT FOR ANYBODY TO BE ABLE TO EXPRESS THEIR FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS. WHERE WE HAVE CONCERNS IS IF THOSE POTENTIAL DEMONSTRATIONS TURN VIOLENT, AND THEN APPROPRIATE ACTION WOULD BE TAKEN, BUT WE CERTAINLY WELCOME PEOPLE TO COME OUT AND BE ABLE TO EXPRESS THEIR FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS. >> George: ARE THERE PARTICULAR, YOU KNOW, AS WE TALK ABOUT THE COMPARISON BETWEEN MILWAUKEE AND CHICAGO, ARE YOU PREPARING FOR THEM IN DIFFERENT WAYS? ARE THERE DIFFERENT KINDS OF THREATS? >> NOT DIFFERENT TYPES OF THREATS, BUT WE'RE PREPARING IN DIFFERENT WAYS. EACH CITY IS DIFFERENT. EACH CONVENTION IS DIFFERENT. THE VENUES ARE DIFFERENT. THE DEPARTMENTS WE'RE WORKING WITH ARE DIFFERENT AND THE ASSETS AND RESOURCES WE BRING IN DIFFERENT. THOSE ARE THE DIFFERENCES. >> George: ARE YOU CONFIDENT THEY CAN GO WITHOUT A MAJOR INCIDENT? >> I'M CONFIDENT IN THE PLANS WE PUT TOGETHER FOR CHICAGO AND MILWAUKEE, YES. >> George: BEFORE I LET YOU GO, WE'RE FACING AN UNUSUAL SITUATION. THE SENATE MEETING HAS BEEN DELAYED NOW UNTIL SEPTEMBER, BUT I KNOW YOU HAVE TO BE PLANNING FOR AT LEAST THE POSSIBILITY THAT A FORMER PRESIDENT IS GOING TO HAVE TO SPEND TIME IN JAIL. IS THERE A PLAN IN PLACE? HOW EXACTLY WOULD IT WORK? >> SO THE SECRET SERVICE HAS A RESPONSIBILITY OF PROTECTING ALL OF OUR PROTECTEES SO WE WOULD COME UP WITH AN APPROPRIATE PLAN SHOULD THAT ARISE. >> George: IS IT POSSIBLE TO PROTECT A FORMER PRESIDENT IN JAIL? >> WE HAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY OF PROTECTING OUR FOLKS NO MATTER WHERE THEY ARE, AND WE WILL STRIKE THAT BALANCE. >> George: THANKS FOR COMING IN TODAY. >> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME. >> George: THAT IS ALL FOR US TODAY. THANKS FOR SHARING PART OF YOUR SUNDAY WITH US. CHECK OUT "WORLD NEWS TONIGHT" AND I'LL SEE YOU TOMORROW ON "GMA."
