Another House Democrat is calling on Joe Biden to drop out of the race. Moderate New York Congressman Pat Ryan is now the eighth elected Democrat to do so publicly. Of course, President Biden has no shortage of critics right now. Some of his toughest are coming from those who worked inside the Obama Biden administration, like the co-hosts of the podcast Pod Save America. They served as speechwriters to the former President Obama. This is a campaign that has been in a white House that is being let down by their principal over and over and over again. It was a terrible interview. He did a terrible job articulating why he's in the race. What happened at the debate and why he's the person to beat Trump. He is doing a terrible job. Joining me now is one of the co-hosts of that podcast, Jon Favreau, Obama's former chief speechwriter and the coauthor of the new book Democracy or Else. Jon's one time former boss is also here, former Obama senior adviser David Axelrod, now, of course, a senior CNN contributor. Thank you both for being here. Jon Favreau, I'm going to start with you because, first of all, acts. I did listen to hacks on tap, so I'll get to that in a second. But I listened to the entire, episode. I think you dropped it yesterday. I mean, it gave me so much anxiety I could feel the frustration coming through the car speakers as I was listening to it, and then my earbuds. And so the question is that I have for you is I'm putting myself in the position of the Biden campaign right now of the white House. And that is you guys are so angry and you guys are so upset. Are you hurting more than helping by saying so much about what you're saying publicly? No, I think what's what's hurting Joe Biden right now is not only the debate performance, but the response to the debate performance in that he has been unable to articulate a coherent and compelling argument against Donald Trump, who I believe represents an existential threat to our democracy. And the debate did not, voters had concerns about Joe Biden's age and fitness for the job. Long before the debate. An overwhelming majority of voters did in the debate amplified those concerns in a way that was very visceral for voters to see. And so it's like it really doesn't matter what I think. But I hope that the Biden campaign and that President Biden will just like, look at the listen to the voters. Right. And and the overwhelming majority of whom do not like Donald Trump, do not think Donald Trump is honest. But I have had concerns for a couple of years now that Joe Biden is not fit for another four years because of his age, and a majority of voters didn't have that concern in 2020. I want you both to listen to what the former House speaker, Nancy Pelosi, said on MSNBC this morning. It's up to the president to decide if he is going to run. we're all encouraging him, to to make that decision. I want him to do whatever he decides to do. And that's that's the way it is. David, I'll start with you. The significance of that? I think very significant. First of all, as you know, I think you said earlier in your show here, Nancy Pelosi is a very deliberate person. she says what she wants to say. She never says what she doesn't want to say. she said that for a reason. The president tried to close down this discussion at the beginning of the week with his letter to the House. And what she's saying, delicately and respectfully, is. No, really. The discussion isn't over, and we still need to have this discussion because she's hearing from members all over the country. They all poll, they all talk to their constituents, and, they're worried not just about the existential threat of Donald Trump becoming president again, but also the effect that it's going to have on all of their races. And the prospect of recapturing the House. So I think the leaders are trying to be respectful and supportive, of the president and, leave the decision to him. But I think they're going to want to make sure that he makes that decision based on real information. And the real information is not encouraging. And so the question is, how much of that real information is he getting? you know, for example, now, the Stephanopoulos interview was with several days ago at this point. But he said, the only person that at that point that he knew that who really wanted him to get out in the Senate, among his former colleagues was Mark Warner. John, you and. Well, David, I think has gone a little bit further in saying that effectively that President Biden should step aside. Correct me if I'm mischaracterizing your position, David. But, John, do you think it it would help at this point for people like you and elected officials who have microphones and megaphones to be more specific publicly, or is it better to continue to press this case privately with the president? I don't know the answer to that. I mean, I'm sure that pressing the case privately to the president is going to be the ultimate thing that, if he decides to step down, that's that's what's going to do it. But I do think the reason that I keep talking about it, the reason that a lot of people keep talking about it, is because President Biden and his advisers are having these conversations with elected officials. The president does respect Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, all of these people around him that he served with for years. and I and his advisors as well. And I do think that if they all gave him an honest accounting of what the numbers are right now and, and what voters concerns are, then I still believe that Joe Biden would make what I think would be a very courageous, honorable decision to say, I want to, you know, finish out my my job as president here in the next couple of months. But I want to pass the torch to the next generation. And David, answer, my question, but also, I want you to sort of play with another notion, a broader notion beyond President Biden, which is Richie Torres told me this morning, Democrats are headed for a suicide mission politically. You heard Michael Bennet on with Caitlyn last night, saying that it's not just a presidency at stake. House and Senate Democrats are going to get wiped out. you worked in the white House. You were both in the white House when there was, I don't know about a wipe out, but it was a quote. Your former boss, he got shellacked. Democrats got shellacked. very different circumstances. But is that where you see November headed? Look, if the polling numbers that we see today, or anything like the numbers at, in November, I think that, gravity will take hold. you can't run right now. These polling is showing, for example, Senator Baldwin in Wisconsin running 12 points ahead of Biden. And I think the same is true of Senator Rosen in Nevada. you know, Bob Casey in Pennsylvania running well ahead of him. But, you know, the history, I there's there's there are very few cases, of senators in the last several cycles in presidential cycles who, when, when they're presidential candidate is losing. And so I think there's real fear, not just for the senators, but for, representatives in these swing district front line districts and a lot of Democrats think the House may be the last line of defense if Trump wins the election. So there's a lot of concern about this. If President Biden does withdraw from the race, replacing him at the top of the ticket could be chaotic. But here's what a top Biden fundraiser and longtime supporter George Clooney said about that in his op ed this morning. Would it be messy? Yes, democracy is messy, but would it in live in our party and wake up voters who long before the June debate had already checked out? It sure would. The short ramp to Election Day would be a benefit for us, not a danger. Jon Favreau and David Axelrod are back with me. Ax, what do you think about that argument? Look, I think there's merit to it. You know, sometimes this is all a matter of risk assessment. There's risk associated with everything. The question is whether the risk of the status quo eclipses the risk of trying something else. And I think we've reached the point where many are have come to that conclusion. But the thing about the piece, Dana, that I thought was particularly impactful was Clooney, who just hosted a fundraiser, a major fundraiser for the president a few weeks ago in California, said the you can't win the battle against time. None of us can. It's devastating to say, but Joe Biden, I was the Joe Biden I was with three weeks ago. The fundraiser was not the Joe Biden of 2010. He wasn't even the Joe Biden of 2020. He was the same man we all witnessed at the debate. That is devastating. That's devastating. Yeah.
And that's and that's what people fear. And that's exactly what I was going to ask Jon about, because, Jon, you were at that fundraiser as well. I don't know if you spent as much time with President Biden as George Clooney did since he was one of the hosts, but that I'm totally with you, David. That quote was like, wow. I mean, it was not surprising to any of us who were at the fundraiser. I was there. Yeah. Clooney was exactly right. And every single person I talked to with the fundraiser thought the same thing, except for the, you know, people working for Joe Biden. Or at least they didn't say that. But I remember my wife Emily turned to me after the fundraiser and said, what are we going to do? I mean, and I said, well, there's a debate in a week. Either he'll do well on the debate and we'll think, well, he was just tired because he flew all the way back from Europe and that'll be that. Or he'll be like this at the debate. And then the whole country will be talking about it. And so here we are. Wow. please come back, both of you. Thank you very much for being here. fascinating conversation,
