Scientology EXPOSED - Evil Tom Cruise, Brainwashing & Forced to Terminate Babies!

this week on the true JY podcast we go into the Dark World of Scientology with former high ranking member CLA Hedley CLA had a lucky escape from Scientology after over a decade of abuse working directly with high ranking members like David muscavage and even Tom Cruz CLA testified at the trial of that 70 short actor Danny masteron after scientologists actively silenced his victims to protect him from being punished for his crimes and in this podcast CLA goes in depth on the levels of abuse she was subjected to as a child and even later being forced to have multiple abortions not to mention her husband who was also rammed off the road while driving away to escape Scientology which is why CLA is now bravely speaking out in the hope of preventing others from the same fate this is the true Jordie podcast with CLA Hedley welcome back to the true Jordie podcast today I'm joined by an amazing guest within a hell of a story it's CLA Hedley thanks for coming on CLA thank you so much for having me I greatly appreciated I've been looking forward to this yes me too um I've always been quite interested in Scientology and uh of course you're you're now doing like a YouTube channel and you've got a book and all sorts of could you just mention that before we get on the on the road yes very definitely my husband Mark and I um have a YouTube channel it's called blown for good exposing Scientology um we have more than 200 videos um more than five million views at this point we're just starting out but our goal is to expose the abusive practices of Scientology help spread the word and share people's stories of of their experiences within that organization um and for my husband and I we es we both escaped in 2005 my husband's book is called blown for good behind the Iron Curtain of Scientology wow and and from what I understand you both were quite high ranking members in Scientology yeah yes I was born into Scientology ology um and then I spent 15 14 years um working um in Scientology SE organization which is where members are required to sign a billion-year contract um I worked at the headquarters of Scientology in California um including eight years in religious Technology Center which is run by the current leader of Scientology David miscavage yeah that guy he he's got scary written right in his face yeah and big time yeah and I mean I'm assum have you met him I'm assuming oh many times yeah I worked I worked directly with him for eight years wow um so yes I've I've seen him physically abuse staff many many times um and of course that my experiences at that level of Scientology now drive my work to expose scient ology as um as someone that was born into it it was never a choice for me until the day I made my Escape so um it's my goal to not have anyone fall prey to this cult one of the things that I think is for me quite easy to understand is um how easy it would be for someone who's born into something to be brainwashed to such a degree uh because what what what Chan has anyone got like um you know when you're born into it um so yeah I have a lot of empathy for for you definitely and if you could just give us like just some broad basic uh things that the beliefs are in Scientology yes um so Scientology was founded by elron hubard who's a science fiction writer Pulp Fiction writer from the the 50s um that that's a whole story in and of itself I always highly recommend that people read barefaced Messiah by Russell Miller it tells the true story of elron hubber and who he is but in terms of the belief system a scientologists would tell you it's an applied philosophy it's a system of beliefs that and practices that they uh use in their day-to-day life um and it is an all-encompassing system so it's very different from what you might consider if you think of a a a Roman Catholic or a Catholic or Christian you know go to church once once a week or you know um pray Scientology is nothing like that it's a complete system is it more like a way of life so to speak like like a lot of rules and regulations and ways to live by yes very definitely your relationship your work uh your your uh how you parent your children every single aspect of your life has uh do you know beliefs and practices that are considered the body of Scientology you know is that sort of when I hear things like oh at ot8 like you know when people reach a certain highest level of knowledge is that like pay to learn or very definitely yes okay yeah in fact there's there's been several um series of studies done as to what the costs involved are but yes each level as you progress up that up the levels is you pay more and more money and and OT is operating thetan so and that's driven by the belief in Scientology that you don't you're not a soul but you are a thetan it's not an exact parallel term it's equivalent Elon hubber uh definitely had a great imagination it seems um and in terms of the story behind it am I right in thinking some of this is sort of alien related or not yes you are correct about that um that specifically is part of operating thean level three which in Scientology is referred to as the wall of fire um which has a very specific narrative that uh we that planet Earth is a prison Earth and that um many beings were brought here um by zenu the Galactic Overlord uh 75 million years ago dropped into volcanoes it's it's quite elaborate uh I'll spare you all the details most lies usually are right like it's uh to simplify it I would say it's one of the most elaborate cases of The Emperor's New Clothes that you probably have ever encountered okay yeah obviously to people who haven't been indoctrinated into this from a young age uh it does seem ridiculous right but but a lot of grown people do turn to it for for whatever reason and I thought like I wondered if you had a theory as to why it gained so much popularity what was what was it that Drew people in uh first of all Scientology tends to pray on people who are uh vulnerable or having Str at a time in their lives where they're struggling so for example my mother was brought in at age 17 by her brother um she had been raised Roman Catholic in England and um she was pregnant she been doing some drugs you know hippie hippie time in the 70s um so this was her way to break free of that control that she felt she was under you know it's kind of like out of the pan Into the Fire kind of a situation or vice versa depending on which way you look at it but um but so you know and at the outset Scientology will say oh what's true for you is what's true uh so meaning you can take take the pieces that you that work for you and discard the rest that's kind of one way they get their foot in the door uh but nothing could be further from the truth in reality you are expected to 100% accept um Hubbard's system and apply it to every aspect of your life nothing is optional in Scientology another part is um they get people by saying they accept people of all beliefs again that's not true um so you know there's carefully crafted lies at the front door that lure people in um and in in this day and age they have renovated beautiful buildings that also make people go oh let's see what this is about um fortunately again there's there's many um there's now many people who have shared their stories very bravely of their experiences in s ology so all you all one would really need to do is Google and you would learn the true facts not the glossy facade that they pres present in terms of Elon hubber himself now knowing what you know looking back um what what would you describe him as what kind of man would you describe him as if you could maybe compare him to someone else in history would is is he even comparable yeah good that's a good question so I never met him personally um but of course I grew up seeing the busts of his head EV you know everywhere um I spent my childhood at St Hill which is the headquarters in uh West Sussex England I was there until age 13 um so he W as a child growing up in Scientology I always thought he was this mystical uh person to be worshiped like you know every time I would study Scientology in their training rooms at the end of every period you clap to you stand up and clap and hip hip hoay hip hip hoay like fanatical Worship in um and and having no perspective being that I was born into it that was just the life I knew um I mean I have to I I have to kind of hand it to to the um the level of magic genius that hubard had of I think studying um groups and ways to control people and um poaching what he saw worked and kind of concocting it into this body of data that um has has uh trapped a lot of people destroyed many many families hurt a lot of people and meanwhile um bullied themselves into position of having tax exempts status here in the United States um and and amassing billions of dollars so uh but again that's why that's why I do what I do to uh educate people on the true nature of this organization yeah and the the guy who sort of took the mantle from him was David muscavage who is you know the modern day leader can you kind of give me an idea of sort of how how he took the mantle and what kind of Direction he changed did he CH Scientology for better or worse or did he mold it in his own image or or has he just continued on what Elon was already going to do how's how's he changed things yes great question um so David miscavage took over in 1986 when elron hubard died David muscavage very carefully maneuvered himself into a position of power uh removed anyone else who had previous Authority um or status or any potential other Replacements um he he carefully maneuvered those people out of the picture uh he is a very domineering um controlling abusive person micromanaged so many aspects of Scientology he was very um unforgiving ruthless um and domineering um demanding and commanding um complete compliance with everything that he set out for to be accomplished and his whole program he refers referred to it as ideal orgs creating these ideal organizations all over the world what do you think the worst thing David muscavage has probably done in his life is there's no oversight of this person no government control nothing so he is running for all intents and purposes his own world and can get get away with whatever he wants to as a result like just take the example of his wife Shelley miscavage uh who I knew personally and worked with for many years um she has not been seen in public now for many many years um she was she was at his side 247 during the entire 14 years that I worked at the management headquarters she was a pivotal figure and she had worked with elron hubard since she was 11 years old anyway so to take the the fact that he that David mcage has gotten away with Vanishing his wife uh just as one small example I mean you know there are many many many questions should be asked about what David miscavage has been doing and where are the authorities in investigating some of these matters is it possible that she is no longer alive um anything's possible I don't believe that's the case though um most recently um we we were we were sent a voter registration record of hers from a very remote part of Northern California where Scientology has a a secret property that's um and so I I believe that um David miscavage has done to his wife Shelley the very same thing that elron hubber did to his wife Mary Sue hubard um Scientology was um found guilty and charged with the largest infiltration of US government in its history and 12 of of um scientology's Top members went to jail for this including Elan herd's wife for for infiltrating the government yes wow yes there was a raid um by the FBI of Scientology properties in the late 70s I believe um what do you mean by infiltrating the government just to just so I fully understand what the like do you mean that they're working in high positions and like getting information wow yes they were copying documents if you if you anyone wanting to know more just um search up operation Snow White and um there's there's a lot of information out there about this and and yeah so so again Scientology has been around since the 50s and there's they have a very tarnished and sorted history through all of that and you know how some of these sort of Cults they they seem to be very sexually charged especially towards the top did you see any of that in regards to these kind of characters or was it not really that sort of vibe yes there is there it is a culture of violence and also coverup and um uh sexual assault of minors covered up um you know there's I mean there's unfortunately there are many many examples the very cult the very culture and nature of Scientology is to cover things up protect themselves uh never report to authorities never involve the police um and so yes because of that um it's it's an environment where Predators can get away with crimes yeah and even the fact take this the situation with my husband and I my husband escaped from the headquarters in California on January 4th 2005 he was chased and run off the road by their security guards and as it happened a passer by saw this happening and called 911 and the police showed up there's a police report of of this incident um that's in his book but either way my point being what would have happened if that random passer by hadn't hadn't called the police you know um he wouldn't have succeeded in escaping so the certainly the crime the covering up crimes is is definitely um part of the culture of Scientology and I I guess for most people the first time we kind of became aware of Scientology from the outside looking in is these big fancy gers that they have which look far better than the Oscars even the amount of money they must spend on these things as ridiculous and the celebrities who are you know involved in this world which um I'm assuming they're using a some sort of fishing rod to make people want to you know hook them and and and come on in and and you actually happened from my research to be familiar with a lot of these guys in fact you testified in the Danny masteron case is that correct yes that is correct well and the my my my question basically because I was a I was a real fan of uh this guy right when I was a kid I used to watch the TV show that 70 show loved the show and I was oblivious as how many of these these actors and actresses on the show were scientologists so um I guess my first question is why are there so many celebrities you know in this uh religion and then if you can explain to me sort of the broad details of what you know about the Danny M and KAS and why you testified absolutely so so yes um attracting celebrity and using um their realm of public influence was specifically a strategy devised by hubard to um to work on pulling in people who influence opinions to be able to say oh look you know look at Tom Cruz he's a Scientologist and use that to lure people in very intentionally and specifically I will say that in this day and age and again I think this is uh in large part due to the the internet and YouTube and uh Leah reminy series Scientology and the aftermath the going clear HBO documentary the amount of information in the public domain in this day and age is such that I think they're far less effective in today's in in this age than they have been previously and I don't think that um their celebrity uh membership is dwindling not growing social media has probably not helped that a great deal yeah no no and and and the Danny Mason situation what what do you like could you break down just the the basics for us so we get the case um an idea of the case the case involved three Janos these incredibly Brave strong women who um C went forward with um charges of um rape and and in fact um they had each been um members of Scientology when these crimes were perpetrated I was approached by the the DA's office in Los Angeles asking me to testify about my knowledge of the policy procedures practices of Scientology and the reason that came into play is because the these crimes were perpetrated in the early 2000s I think it was like roughly 2000 to 2004 and there were reports made to Scientology as is the practice for a Scientologist about these crimes that had been committed and um instead of reporting those crimes to police as one what expect the victims were silenced and they were um targeted and um and again this is part of the practice of Scientology so where my testimony came in is originally the the judge had ruled that Scientology could not be discussed or even talked about because they were not arguing that the crimes were committed uh but then the defense changed that strategy and that's where it was important that the terminology the language and the practices and the policies was critical because there were reports made to Scientology and I'm assuming they silenced these girls because they wanted their their little star to make sure he doesn't go to jail um because he has I mean at that time tremendous pull he that it was one of the biggest shows on TV um that's right I think he had one of these girls at gunpoint even um that's right so yeah that was I mean it was insane to hear that that would be going on with a guy who was so famous and uh I mean he he got he got quite a long sentence from memory to my knowledge it's 30 Years to Life um because it's uh multiple counts hats off to these women um their bravery is just outstanding in this in this matter to persist through what Scientology will do to somebody trying to expose them is out of this world I I mean I've I've my family and I have been um harassed and followed and uh had all manner of um what Scientology refers to as fair game uh for the last 18 years since we've been exposing their practices it begs the question what else they've covered of by putting on this kind of pressure onto people because you know people are just people and uh to to be like your your you and your husband are you know a Twan band as we'd say uh to go up against such a mega powerful organization with all that money um I can't imagine how how stressful that's been and I definitely want to talk more about your story uh as we go and um you you mentioned um Tom Cruz earlier who has got to be the you know the most famous M sky and and that was kind of yeah my first sort of understanding of what Scientology was cuz there was this video that got leaked when he was going like you're an SP man and I just want to tell them wake up you know what I mean we've all sort of seen that very good very good um imitation it was crazy and like as someone who doesn't really understand Scientology at that point you're like what is an SP a suppressive person and and and you know down the rabbit hole we we sort of went but can you just describe to me Tom Cruz's role in Scientology um and if you've met him what what he's like yes absolutely um and yes I have met him in fact uh he Tom Cruz celled my husband which is covered in in my husband's book D what you say counseled can you exp yes he so he did Scientology therapy if you will on my husband um it's called auditing you know again the the language of Scientology is so deep and so uh isolating that you know you could get two scientologists in a room and they could have a conversation you wouldn't understand a single thing of what they just said well the words sound sound scary and I I assume deliberately to make you feel like oh this is very official you know like it it's very cleverly selected even that word auditing like that's something that should be taken seriously you know right um yeah so so so Tom Cruz is sat in front of your husband auditing his his mind essentially I mean has your husband described what that was like to go through yes he has it at Great length and also too I I I I did have personal interaction with Tom Cruz during the time that I was in religious Technology Center obviously um Tom Cruz definitely received very um preferential treatment Within in Scientology for by the end uh in the later years he he was David miscavage is closest friend closest Ally closest Confidant um and such that Shelly mavage David's wife then ran the project to find Tom Cruz a wife which resulted in his marriage to Katie Holmes which obviously yeah Katie Holmes is a Scientologist as well no no okay they just selected her for him sort of thing that's right but yeah and again look at history uh if you read what Katie Holmes went through to get out of that relationship and with her daughter and I mean that's that you know again this is you're talking celebrities and she had to escape in the dead of night too pretty much wow so so in terms of his personality Tom when you're interacting with him you know what level like because I kind of assume it'd be quite a borderline arrogant like like if if if you want to be that high up in any organization and absorb so much power probably something not right with you in my book so what kind of character would you describe him as um I would characterize Tom Cruz as a um a very domineering uh controlling person um and again during my time in religious Technology Center I had to work with his staff who had been hand selected by David miscavage and Shelley miscavage um so in other words he was very he was completely surrounded by scientologists uh specifically and intentionally so during the time that Tom was married to Nicole Kidman um David miscavage had said that Tom was actually drifting out of Scientology and then that was very aggressively dealt with to drag Tom back in uh you know but so do you think Nicole Kidman was part of the the reason he was drifting out and maybe the divorce of her was uh part of the reason he was brought back in maybe yes I I do I know um Marty wthin at the time was David mavage is right-hand man and Marty wthin was very involved in um the whole divorce proceedings between Tom and Nicole yes so again it just shows you you know like what what religion would control people's relationships control who they can talk to control every aspect of their life with their staff you know it just again begs the question what is what's really going on here um and I knew from working with Tom's staff that he could be abusive and and um abusive in what way uh verbally in some cases physically at least a few instances that were were described to me I didn't witness it personally but it was described to me that uh he would often lose his temper um and so he what what kind of a physical thing would he did they say he did well one one example was this one of his staff said that he threw them up against a fridge and um was yelling and verbally abusive that's that's one one situation that was no no I can't understand what they could be like what what you know what I mean like what what could be wrong do you know what I mean I like if you're in this sort of religion usually you know you're supposed to be praying like the these are the things that we know like I I just it obviously it's the F Furthest Thing from a religion the way I'm hearing it right now right yeah yeah and that's that and that is part of where it's important to deconstruct and and understand what is this because you know putting a slapping a label on it and saying oh it's a religion that's what Scientology wants you to do yeah don't ask questions don't don't uh learn about what's happened to actual members or you know don't don't at and again so going back to you were talking about uh we were talking about the the upper levels and the elaborate story here's here's a great example of a control lever within scientology members are not allowed to compare notes you're like if you were on the ot3 and I was on ot3 we couldn't have a conversation and go because it's confidential and you're not allowed to discuss it so I'm just imagining me like you heard about ot3 can't believe it can't believe it didn't expect that do you know like it it's but you know the way it's been constructed clearly by alron Hub is is so divisive to make sure no one no one ever talks to each other and realizes what the real game is which is power goes up [ __ ] rolls downhill usually and now a word from our sponsors now breaking a habit can be as difficult as getting in the ring with Mike Tyson with one on behind your back but don't worry Lads fume has got you covered because not everything in a bad habit is wrong so instead of drastic uncomfortable change why not just remove the bad from the habit and fume is an Innovative award-winning flavored air device that does just that instead of vapor fume uses flavored air and instead of electronics fume is completely natural and instead of harmful chemicals fume uses delicious flavors and your fume comes with an adjustable airflow dial and is designed with movable pots and magnets for fidgeting giving your fingers a lot to do which is helpful for de-stressing and anxiety while breaking your habit and I love 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smoke and mirrors and the the programming so you know it the and the it it is control um and and that's where I think the Lawrence Wright's book going uh going clear Scientology and the prison of belief he referred to it as a prison of belief to me that's such an appropriate label because when you have the level of indoctrination at a certain point you start doing the work yourself so for example simple seemingly benign Concept in Scientology any critical thought is a bad thing if you say uh hey David miscavage just beat someone up that's a critical thought which means that you've done something wrong you yourself the only reason you're having a critical thought is because you've committed a crime and so you know it just kind of it's layer upon layer of these control mechanisms that that and again in my case I was born into it this was being programmed in from from age four um so it's really hard to unravel that and and walk that back I mean for you to get out after being born into it I shows I mean must have taken unbelievable strength but also ironically uh critical thinking um you know the ability go something's not right here um and and and strength but um one more thing about Tom Cruz actually was uh one of the other first uh instances I seen about scientology was Leah Remy on um Joe Rogan's podcast and she said like well people say why would Tom Cruz need Scientology you know he's a big celebrity all the money in the world everyone loves him and she goes yeah but like even as a celebrity you can you can pay for I want to paraphrase but you pay for servants and people adore you but the level of power you get from being basically uh you know Jesus uh you know in Scientology where people will look at you as as a as a person of worship it's a whole another level of control and influence where you are spoken to not like a celebrity and a good act but like a God and that that really nailed it for me and I went oh that's why he's in it he gets off on this he wants the ultimate power and that he can't have that level of power anywhere else is that do you think that's fair I do I absolutely think that's fair it would hard it would be hard to imagine that Tom Cruz doesn't know the level that Scientology has infiltrated his entire life um and he's probably welcomed it but yes that that Godlike um worship for sure I mean David miscavage would take Tom Cruz around the headquarters and demand that the staff jump up and say yes sir Mr Cruz you know like absolute worship for sure that's absolutely a big part of it I'm sure and they do the sort of like salute right like and but from what I remember elron hubber was like a failed Navy guy so he managed to like write this into the religion cuz he's like you know you know i' really like to still do a bit of that so we'll work that in um which is like cuz I used to like I used to work at C and I I found that bit quite funny like yeah he just got to make sure we could still do that um and and he worked in the naval uniforms and yeah all those elements you're absolutely right I've had to be to be fair I've had the exact same thought like oh I get it that you know just yeah take the bits that you wanted to uh experience or or that you enjoyed and it's it it's having talked with uh many you know heard from people in the actual Navy in the actual military who actually serve our countries it's just oh my gosh it's so it's embarrassing and retrospect but but if anything that that should be one of the biggest clues that this is all just a figment of his imagination that like we're all wandering around dressed up as navy guys where you know when none of us are we're not at se you know what I mean like that's not necessary for any reason other than it looks kind of cool um uh but yeah I mean I mentioned Leah rany who has played a huge part in I guess you know exposing a lot of this she is actually suing Scientology uh from what I've read in the last six months uh what do you make of Leah her story and and taking on the church you know in cour yes um Leah remedy is a absolutely a fierce Brave whistleblower Advocate the work she has done um since getting herself and her family out of Scientology is absolutely incredible um she has my greatest respect I mean it really takes it it is a David and Goliath type situation um as as we were talking about earlier you know this is a billion dooll organization that has had seven decades of the practice of silencing destroying muzzling um and those are words herard used by the way as to what should be done with anyone who speaks silence them destroy them utterly um there are so there I mean like I said there's Decades of documentation of Scientology working to destroy people's lives so Leah could have just left and gone on with her life and instead she's become um one of the most vocal Advocates exposing the abusive practices of Scientology and so in this current lawsuit scientology's practice of fair game is certainly a significant focus of exposing what Scientology does to its critics like take the example of my husband and I um up until right now today Scientology is running paid Google ads to promote OTE their hate sites on my husband and I that have videos of my mother for example um and my uh my brother my stepfather my cousin you know just I mean what what religion does this to people these people who you've just listed they am I right in thinking they are still in Scientology and they are saying bad things about you and your husband is that correct yes wow exactly and they're paying adverts for that yes yes Jesus use it the Scientology uses tax exempt dollars to attempt to destroy science muzzle anyone who says anything um that they don't like about scientology and you've just mentioned how much money that this company which it's a company right it's it at least a billion dollar company right and looking at the gala looking at the size and the the grandiose buildings that they've built and you know how well turned out a lot of these people people are you know you wonder where the money's come from and one thing I did notice from one person's account was that they pay a lot of these lowlevel sort of entrylevel scientologists like like slave wages like next to no money and they're just absorbing every bit of wealth and it's going like right to the very top it but but do you know any of the actual like ways they've made huge amounts of money they have um an organization that's referred to as the international Association of scientologists people donate millions and millions of dollars they have all these different like you know Silver Platinum meritorious whatever their labels are um they have wealthy um scientologists who have donated including Tom Cruz by the way um millions and millions of dollars for just to um amass wealth so the International Association of scientologists alone probably represents a massive portion of the wealth that Scientology and the billions of dollars that they've amassed um you know if you go back to in 1993 is when um the IRS granted Scientology tax exempt status and uh so there was a big event that David miscavage did in Los Angeles and in that in the speeches there he he says well it's a good thing they granted us this otherwise we we could be in jail right now okay wow thanks uh good to know um do do you know how many people are in Scientology or do they never disclose that that's a good question they do not disclose that if you read their propaganda they'll say oh we've got unprecedented expansion we're on a you know uh Super Bowl ads they they'll run super Super Bowl ad W they put Super Bowl ads out that's wild wow I don't know why but that's just blown my mind like you've got like Coca-Cola and then you're going straight oh and if you fancy a bit of Scientology we've got your cover as well that's wild oh my God right I know yeah cuz they on cheap right like so yeah so do you do you all right so they're saying they've got millions of people there do you genuinely think more and more people are joining up or do you think all of this bad press is sort of hindering that or or no I absolutely think that their membership is dwindling for sure my I I think you know there's been thoughts bounced around but I think the closest to accurate is probably that their membership worldwide is maybe around 30,000 now wow right wow um I've just twigged that now I've done this podcast with you they're probably not going to accept me which is a real shame foro please don't please don't unless I've got to be honest if they want to pay me a lot of money and put me really high up I'll think about it but no I I worked in the C Organization for 14 years and made $46 a week during that time oh my God $46 a week I assumed that you were sort of like living off of like a your system where they like they give you your food and it's just they extract all the money that's right right and and you know in the C organization you're working hundreds of hours a week so it's not it's not a ninto five jobs Jesus what what what are what are you doing for all those all those hours a week like what kind of work for about five or six years I was involved in staff training so I would oversee staff study of hubard materials and then during the years that I was in religious Technology Center I was over uh Human Resources getting new people uh finances for four years I was an executive reporting under Marty rathen and David miscavage so again 8: am to midnight most days and um oftentimes all nighters there was about two or three years where um I was considered to be in trouble because Marty wthin had escaped and so that was my fault supposedly and so I was denied dining privilege like the punishments and the abuse are really extreme and you see dining privileges meaning what they would restrict your food no I was so as a punishment I was required to only eat meals next to this giant dumpster like a whole trash receptacle area uh as a as a demeaning humiliating form of punishment for for somebody escaping from that from the headquarters so you know cruel and unusual punishment at the hands of David miscavage was very common can you explain to me how they would how they would tell you you're eating over there NE like would would would David muscavage tell you or would someone else come over and what kind of tone of voice are they like is this like really nasty or oh yeah yeah it wasn't so in my case it wasn't directly by David miscavage it was by the person who is the ethics the uh ethics officer is the title it's like the police within that organization that's who enforces the term for it in Hubbard's words is make make the punishments uh for non-compliance to gruesome to be faced and enforce them that's kind of the tone and environment that um scientologists but even more so members of the SE organization live in it seems incredible ibly cruel um you know some of some of the things that you know I've read up and some of the things you're saying right now and like it feels just like weak people getting off on power over over even weaker people who you know are struggling with with the the being subjected to that is that fair that is fair definitely and I will say that I don't think that I think there are very good people in Scientology who probably in Act were were lured in because they want to help people they want the world to be a better place the problem is that you know you walk in at the ground level by the time you're at at at the top of the building you realize there's no way out and very often your your you've got your family is in your friends are in perhaps your job is depending dependent on your um continued cooperation with Scientology so it can be very very hard to exit yeah yes I mean especially if you were raised in it which which you were and in terms of like being a child in Scientology what was that like obviously your mother raised you in Scientology so my mother got into Scientology when she was pregnant with me when I was four years old as a single mother she joined the C organization so she signed the billion-year contract at that point for all intents and purposes I was handed off to um staffers of the sea organ ation I I from age four to age 10 I was lucky if I saw my mom two hours a week Jesus yeah so you mentioned that she was a single mother and you mentioned earlier about vulnerable people I'm assuming that they would have prayed on someone like her thinking okay this someone's maybe going through a tough time desperate we've got all the answers but but in terms of your mother um all right it's one thing being desperate looking for answers it's another thing accepting only seeing your child two hours a week so why do you think she managed to make herself okay with that yeah you know I think that um I mean she was she was very young um and she believed she was helping a bigger cause and you know in Scientology the approach is that you you're required to do what refer to as the what's what's the greatest good for the greatest number of Dynamics and the the 100% priority is given to the group of Scientology and doing what scci what's best for Scientology above and beyond what's best for yourself or your family or anything else that's that's kind of how it's presented and and what the indoctrination requires so you know I think I don't I know she didn't like it there were often times that I even recall as a child that she was crying because for example when I was six years old one she was sent away to Europe to recruit new members for several months and um and she was when she told me that she had to go she was crying and told me that she'd asked them if they could reconsider but that she had to go and do this otherwise she was going to get in a lot of trouble you know that's that's a a huge burden to place on a six-year-old child like what you know what you know she was just like said well I'm going to send you postcards and these these people who are by the way complete strangers are going to look after you this is your new family Jesus yeah and what what kind of people were you left with uh other other members of the sea organization um they were so you know because I saw her so little I can't say it was a huge change but nonetheless it was a definitely a huge loss even as a child to go like why can't I just have a normal life and and be with my mom like other kids are what kind of living circumstances was it for you cuz I'm thinking okay you're six seven years old here are you in a big room full of people what what was it like yes they had Comm lodging oh gosh probably maybe 40 40 50 kids and there was a girls dorm and a boy storm I mean really for the reality is we were orphans um yeah it sounds like and yeah and orphans with a Lord of the Flies twist because we were responsible for supervising and taking care of each other so for example when I was seven I was responsible for five other kids and I had to make sure that they brushed their teeth that they made their beds that they did their homework you know things of this nature that there was maybe one or two adults supervising that many children um it's yeah as as a parent now it's it's absolutely horrifying and and truly you just go how is this even legal that they would could get away with this they they they they no longer have Cadet or organizations they they now instead um make it illegal in Scientology for members of the sea organization to have children and if a member of the C organization does get pregnant they're forced and csed to have an abortion wow so like I'm sure people get pregnant fairly regularly because it's human nature to want to have sex right so like um do you know anyone who was forced to have an abortion I was um twice actually um and this was during the time that I was um working at the headquarters uh I knew that if if I even put up one her ofite that they would put me on heavy manual labor um you know it's it's something else to be trapped in that world uh you know and again this is what motivates me to expose these this organization for what they do nobody should ever be forced to make a decision so about something so important and significant and so personal um and and the the first time I swore that if I if it ever happened again I would just refuse the problem is that the second time um I was in Florida my husband was in California and I I wrote I had to write a request to be able to call my husband and it was denied so I knew that if if I didn't go along with what they were making me do they would never even tell my husband that they would you know I would end up on my own with cut off from my family cut off from my husband um and I was completely stuck and it's something that I struggle with and Will it's it's really hard but but I my my husband and I filed a lawsuit um against Scientology in 2009 we we ended up losing but as part of that lawsuit I made a list of 60 women I had personally known who were forced to have an abortion some of those multiple times um and I will say that um our lawsuit included charges relating to forced abortion human trafficking uh yes we lost but in the end the judge ruled that had we pursued other causes of action such as false imp imprisonment um assault and battery we may have fared differently um we ended up paying the legal fees I think roughly $46,000 to Scientology they Scientology had offered us and said hey we will wave that bill if you do the following one turn over the rights to your husband's book blown for good behind the Iron Curtain of Scientology two agreed to never speak publicly about scientology ever again three three um turn over any and all Communications you've ever had with any media any former scientologists so basically they wanted to make us their spies and never speak again so we were like no we sold sold a sold a vehicle sold did scrambled did whatever we could and um paid them and then miraculously a friend of ours um Jason beay said you should do a fundraiser and and and we did and within a week we had such an outpouring of support from all over the world and and that those funds were raised back good on you you know self-respect is priceless in my opinion and not bowing down to them after everything they've done to you it you know at least you've got that and uh and in terms of like being forc have an abortion you know I never thought I'd hear that on my podcast you know I you know abortions for any woman woman is a tough thing to go through and that's when you're you're choosing to do it let alone when you don't want to do it God only knows how that must have you know impacted you in the long term I mean does it does that sort of thing I mean I can say how emotional you got when you spoke about it have you managed to sort of uh find peace you know in in dealing with that it's a work in progress um you know it's it's a long road to recovery there's there's a lot to pack um I'm I you know I will say that I have personally benefited greatly from getting therapy uh which even that was a huge step for me because as being that I was born in Scientology scientologists believe that psychologists and psychiatrists are the consumate evil um the the big bad guy if you will funny old thing right the the people who will see right through us they're evil yeah yeah yeah so um you know and and I'm I don't get me wrong I'm very very grateful for the life that I now have I've I blessed with three amazing children and so you know it's it but it's a lot it's a lot to recover from and there's a lot of hurt and a lot of trauma and um but but I will say that when I first ESC literally escaped from Scientology they they chased across state lines that's a whole other story but anyway um I was terrified of them and um and I knew I know what they are capable of and that um you know that was huge so even for example when my husband released his book I was I said okay you know we each do what we do we each follow the path that we need to take to recover from what we went through but we're going to have Wills in place we're going to have make make sure Scientology can never get a hold of our children we're going to be logical and take the necessary steps to protect ourselves uh as much as we can um but I will say that it's been part of my process of recovering is speaking out about my experiences and exposing what they do yeah I mean we all just want peace in life right and and that's something that has been you that's been robbed from you like to be just sort of sleep at night soundly in the same way other people can when you're always looking over your shoulder um I mean did you ever turn to any sort of anything to to help deal with that like did anyone you know have addiction issues through Scientology or was that never an issue for you um I do know of a lot of people who have struggled um recovering from Scientology I know certainly for myself um I to this day have nightmares you know so it's it's hard um and I would say for myself I've leaned into trying to educate myself and walk back the programming of Scientology that was uh you know it's it's peeling layers of the onion I don't know what to say it's uh a work in progress cuz you mentioned earlier about the the psych psychologist being the enemy and I think I think I might have read somewhere a while back that Sigman Freud may have played a role in elron hubard sort of setting up the auditing like the DI Diagnostics as it called something like that is that right yes Scientology uses an Emer uh it's uh the you hold cans and it's I think it's a galvanometer I heard someone describe it as recently I I always knew it as kind of a primitive lie detect sector but they use that in all of their counseling um so they just ask you questions and monitor what your body's responses sort of thing right okay that's right and what what what sort of things do they ask you when they do that sort of stuff oh it's could it I mean there are thousands and thousands of um different levels but it can be as simp as benign as re recall a time you were happy all the way to uh have you murdered somebody you know they have um in Scientology there's a process that's referred to as security checking or SE checking it's interrogation using that device um and and for example um that's something that I was trained to do at the age of 13 years old wow to interrogate adults as to all manner of question questions um and again what does that do to a child to to require them to interrogate adults about subject matter that's entirely inappropriate for children I mean if if you're keeping people in a constant state of uh defending themselves oh I haven't done anything wrong you know you're they're on the back F the whole time and therefore they can't be aggressive towards Authority right you're constantly keeping them in a state of you know defending thems but for you at 13 to be hearing grown folks talk like that where you've got I mean did you ever think at that young age like I don't feel right about this or or were you just not cuz obviously you you'd been brainwashed to some degree so were you ever thinking like that like maybe this is wrong because of the programming the the little voice was locked in the back room you know the um but was I uncomfortable absolutely what did I you know did I not want want to be doing any of that absolutely but at the same time it was you know it was normalized and the environment was I was not the only child that was learning to interrogate adults in fact right in fact we were encouraged like oh good job you're doing your your study and your training and you're you're getting up there and you're you're you know like pat on the back and oh parents are so proud of their kids and you know it's encouraged um for children to do the the training and and dive head in because again a child is a clean slate and every child just wants to make their parents proud right like so when you're getting that you know the reward and the feeling of Oh I'm great I'm making everyone proud of course you're not really going to question it you're like you're just going to think fantastic I'm winning here uh and you mentioned your parents again there um in terms of your mother did she meet anyone new post uh you know going into Scientology yes she did um she she married my stepfather um when I was 10 she met him when I was eight and and then married him when I was 10 and he's American uh so that's where we ended up moving to the US when I was 13 years old but but hey um talking about my stepfather and going back to my testimony in the Danny Masterson trial I think something that illustrates the level of scientology's involvement in that case is demonstrated by this one piece of information um in March of last year is when the judge ruled that I would be allowed to testify as an expert witness on Scientology in the trial uh the defense called a person to counter my expert witness testimony no way person was my stepfather wow they really they really went and did their research to make sure oh so they wanted someone who knew you who could contradict you who could specifically say she's lying cuz I know her sort of thing yes and and not even so he did not end up testifying I don't even think it's that level because the fact of the matter is that my stepfather was never in the ca Organization for 14 years he did not he was not even allowed to know physic where I worked it was more about the mental head games of get get to me by using using and weaponizing my family against me did it make you feel a certain way like when you heard that did you did you get this feeling of oh no I did yeah so you know this this yeah no the the sinking like ah there's it's I think it's hard for people to understand the lengths Scientology go goes to I mean having your own family weaponized against you what religion does that and and you mentioned obviously we we've we've explored how weird it is that they threw a load of kids in this Hall and just let them look after each other like Lord of the Flies like you you know put so correctly um you've also mentioned previously like underage um abuse being a problem sexual abuse and that sort of thing was that something you ever seen or heard of in that time uh as a child yes um I I I was a victim of um a sexual assault when I was starting at age five um Jesus and again yeah no it's layer upon layer of trauma and abuse that's covered up by Scientology um who was it who who was attacking you it was one of the older uh Cadet that's one of the the um there was two different two different instances both of them were um older children like three four years older than I was um and again that was the environment was such there was no adult supervision no correct oversight it was like I said Lord of the Flies type situation and no recourse because if you if I were to report that then that would that I had done something wrong I had Scientology calls it uh the over motivator sequence you've pulled it in you you the in Scientology the concept of victim is a negative thing you you're never the victim you're not allowed to complain about anything because the machine needs to keep on moving you're not important right yeah wow I mean wow that's mind-blowing and and and look this if you leave a bunch of kids to look fend for themselves as you say it's like chaos um and and to come up with the strategy of oh by the way you're just now not allowed to have children at all is also another like mental solution for a problem like we can't be bothered to house these kids we we don't want to have this problem just stop having kids like they don't even think that it's just not even a clever setup you know which is all the more surprising how people sort of managed to to to fall for it and you know um your mother um bringing into with this as you've gotten older have you kind of been able to forgive her or what's your sort of feelings towards her now that you're a parent yourself and you know how what it is to love your child as a mother yourself yeah no that's a great great observations and great question um yes absolutely becoming a mother myself gave me perspective and helped to unravel my own experiences you know even even to to the point that you know I my Approach prior to becoming a mother had been just oh just shut it shut it away walk away from it you know I would was even defending my mother for disconnecting from me that's the practice in Scientology of cutting off completely it's not the same as Shan it's kind of next level like absolutely no communication so she just cut you off completely yep she's never met my my um children My Three Sons yep and but I will say that it what were you saying to defend her just out of Interest like what what what excuses would you make for her I was just saying that so this was originally uh I was telling my aunt it's O it's okay I have to I have to do I I know why she's doing it okay so I was defending it not because I believed in it but because I knew the consequences my mother would face if she did not cooperate with the rules so for example I knew that if she talked to me then she might face not being able to talk to my other siblings for example that's that's a really bad situation to be in and not so so because I understood it I was trying to not rock the boat and my aunt who was never has never been a Scientologist very firmly and politely told me to stop defending it I can imagine the choice of words was pretty straightforward yeah she said stop put stop you know stop putting your stop keeping your mother on this pedestal what she's doing is absolutely not okay and but you know it really made me realize like yes why am I why am I defending this she's never she it nothing that happened in my childhood was okay nothing was normal nothing unconditional love does not exist in Scientology and so I you know from such a young age was forced to bend to and cooperate with a system of um life that is completely destructive for a child yeah if I'm right in thinking you were told to sign a contract that's 7 years old for a billion-year contract um yes I think that alone tells you everything you need to know about the level of indoctrination of like get them young and make them think like you are committing everything to us for the rest of your existence um and and the idea that a seven-year-old is in any way a fit and proper uh person and of mature sound and mind and body to be able to go and put the signature on a contract for anything like that um but yeah um in terms of your dating yourself right you you obviously you met a husband what is dating like in Scientology well I'll say that my experience was unique uh not unique it was different than like a civilian Scientologist for example where dating might be similar to what it is out here in the real world in my case I was already working at the headquarters um in California working you know 8 am until midnight on a good day that's where I met my husband Mark um and so we never dated per se in Scientology if you well in the SE organization if you engage in anything other than you know a a non-passionate kiss you can get in very uh very big trouble and sent to what they call the rehabilitation project Force where you're it's slave Camp labor reprogramming is a a short way to explain that so there's no it's in the sea organization it's pretty much like okay let's get married so in the case of my husband and I um we were married when I was 17 and he was 19 and we're a statistical anomaly in that we've managed to keep our relationship together through hell and high water wow so yeah this this this August will be our 32nd anniversary and and am am I right in thinking so there wasn't necessarily much of a connection to start off with you were just pair up from just by close proximity right well uh we weren't paired up um I mean we were you know it wasn't something we were told like it wasn't an arranged marriage no but the point being that you don't a as Mark likes to say there was no um test driving or whatever you you know okay so try before you buy we're getting married because there ain't there ain't no back and out it's where they get married there ain't no dating you know cting it's it's full on straight away um and I mean credit credit to you both I mean cuz not only did you a um survive all of that time together but you know you've managed to continue after a traumatic experience because often when couples go through trauma sometimes they just can't make it through it even if they do love each other why is it that you guys have lusted then h I would say um well first of all my husband has always been a rebel and that that was honestly What attracted me in the first place was because you know I saw that he he he was he I mean he was in Scientology from a young age but not as deep as I was and I saw that he didn't hold the same regard or the same level of you know follow the rules um so he took it far less seriously than I did uh which was just such a breath of fresh air to me to go like wow okay and then so you know fast forward to so we were married 1992 fast forward to 2005 he ended up escaping and leaving me behind because I hadn't been home it's kind of a long story covered in his book but in that moment I realized you know of course I was being he's he's now a suppressive person and he's bad and he's gone and you you know divorce him immediately I'd already been being pressured to divorce him for the entire time we'd been married by directly by David mavage was that because he was like not conforming to the status quo yes he was uh he I mean he was always either doing really really well or really really terrible he was he's a you know he's a capable person and worked really hard to do what they wanted done but he would ALS he he was also not afraid to bend the rules you know um so he tended to get in a lot more trouble than I did and so when he escaped it was this moment of Reckoning for me like wait wait a minute and I honestly you're not allowed to talk about leaving so even though we were married for 13 years when when he escaped never once had we talked about let's get the hell out of here you know never because you know you're your chances are you're going to be interrogated if one partner says and Spills the beans then you're both in trouble you'll be separated there it's like layer upon layer of control mechanisms so he felt I guess that he couldn't tell you because he he's implicating you if you know about it but also he's also worried that you might freak out and say something to someone right wow they even come between your marriage they just everywhere isn't it it's like this thing that you can't even say but it's everywhere and that that is where it's important to know it's not it's not just it is a it infiltrates every aspect of your life it really reminds me of a movie I've seen and I kind of I think it's called equilibrium um the guy who uh played Batman Christian bills in it and he takes a tablet every day in the morning and it stops him from feeling emotion and it's very like Soldier esque like everyone does what they're told and like it feels a lot like it's the closest thing I've heard to that movie ironically and um one of the things I heard that happened to your husband is he was putting something called the hle yes what can what is the hole cuz it sounds horrible yeah I was I was put in the hole too ironically I was put in the hole for refusing to to divorce my husband oh okay then yeah um it's for and again just understand that it's cool and unusual punishment to to the next level but it was these double wide trailers um where staff that were considered to be a in non-compliance with David miscavage were confined to this to this building and it got much much worse after I escaped um to the point where there were literally the doors were locked there were security guards 247 staff were made to uh beat each other up um confess to their sins it was just absolute Insanity um but even in the in the time that I was there was the beginning of that where staff were being told they were suppressive people even though they're they've committed to a billion years that's not enough now they're being told they're bad people just because David miscavage doesn't like them or you know they didn't get they didn't do what he wanted the right way or they didn't do what he wanted done fast enough could be anything is that the worst punishment you've heard of in terms of just like ones that you know of no it's not the worst um for example those same management Executives were made to go out and scoop up dried up excrement from a Iration pond at that property with no hazmat suits no nothing just like shovel stick it in a bucket no protection um several staff ended up in hospital with as um respir issues because of that a member of the C organization a staff member that worked at that property uh she un alived herself because she was being prevented from seeing her husband and then they covered that up and said it was just an accident when she that she fell into a high voltage electrical chamber wow that's yeah I mean you can imagine how that would happen when when people are being like [ __ ] with so much in their head like you know some people just haven't got the uh resistance to keep going and um I think I might have read somewhere that there's a lot of like almost solitary confinement tactics where people are just sort of restricted and um stuck in a room and not allowed out sort of thing for hours and it it it does sound horrendous what you you know obviously you had your Escape moment what do you think your Rock Bottom moment was where you were like I'm going to get the hell out of here at some point was there a moment or did you have an opportunity you just think I'm going now yeah um it was for me it was when when Mark escaped um you know I I was keeping up the facade even in my mind that I would just persist through and and keep going for the sake of the people I loved my husband my family you know I stood to lose all of that so I just stubbornly felt I could not I didn't see that I had another option until the moment that Mark was no longer there and I just reached a point where I was like I'm I'm not going to be able to survive this I will fail um and whatever state that puts me in I'm I'm gonna lose this battle unless I get the heck out of here it really reminds me the way I'm I'm a TV binge Watcher and um I don't know if you've ever seen Game of Thrones um yes there's a moment where um Joffrey is torturing uh sza and she he's just lobbed her head's dad's head off at one point and then they're asking her like are you going to escape and she's like Joffrey is my king I must be like and that's the sort of like you're not even allowed to even start thinking about escaping because if you do you're worried you're going to say something and give the game away so you're even bullshitting yourself um which is quite that shows the extreme levels that you had to go through and in this instance Joff fre is David muscavage which is quite seems like quite a good crossover character if they ever need someone to play David muscavage in the movie um great observation that would nail it yeah absolutely um I've really enjoyed this this chat and and I hope that we can do a part two where I can go into greater lengths because obviously this is a bit of a uh introductory U look at what Scientology can do to people and bloody hell you know it's done a lot um my final question question for today CLA is how would you like to be remembered ah what a great question um I would like to be remembered for um my work to help people get out and to expose the truth of Scientology despite um despite huge obstacles to overcome despite my own trauma you know I think it's really important to rise above and just try to do good in this world and um that's that's my answer there's no you know there's no there's no road map to any of this right absolutely just um but I it my passion is to help people understand what this really is and to not get lured into this dangerous organization well there's no doubt that you know the work that you and your husband are doing is preventing them from luring more people in so that is a miss accomplished uh 100% uh I'll put the link uh to all of the stuff that you guys are doing um the books Etc in the description below people can check out your YouTube channel can you name it again just before we go absolutely blown for good exposing Scientology and we also have a pod we have it on podcast and amazing all the platforms yes well that was a CL um on the true Jordie podcast thank you very much guys don't forget to hit that like button stay subscribed to the true jie podcast and we'll see you on the next [Music] [Music] one

Channel: True Geordie

Views: 80,670

Keywords: scientology, tom cruise, david miscavige, shelly miscavige, elisabeth moss, john travolta, leah remini, mike rinder, jenna elfman, kirstie alley, priscilla presley, lisa marie presley, grateful dead, leonard cohen, nicole kidman, nazanin boniadi, mimi rogers, katie holmes, church of scientology, Joe Rogan, Danny Masterson, That 70s Show, Bijou Phillips, L. Ron Hubbard, Louis Theroux, Going Clear, Claire Headley, Conspiracy, Sea Org, Blown for good

Id: 1j99cM0C8Yc

Length: 82min 7sec (4927 seconds)

Published: Mon Feb 19 2024