The Blocks and Our Inner Sophist (70)

well this evening we're going to explore curious problem and the title of course is the blocks in our inner Sophists but we're thinking about this title I could have equally have expressed it in terms of another title so let me consider that one why you have to have a problem if you live in this universe could equally have called it the necessity of having a problem from that if you have therefore what is called a problem that's a block so this very language suggests this very familiar model there you go and you encounter a block can't get through it the very nature of that block is an inner voice which you attend to and believe that's the whole problem because this block is a fundamental belief which you have that belief takes the form of an inner thought subvocal statement some image in any case it's persuasive and that's what I call the inner Sophists so let's see if we can get there now that's the goal that's where we're going it's all in one right okay now one of the most difficult problem using word problem in another sense is this word conditions and let's see if I can talk about that for a moment ah use this there's a podium would you agree it's easy to talk about that podium in terms of the usual four ideas it couldn't have come into existence without wood-framed in a certain way and then you need some worker alright to work on the would you certainly can't do that without some plan or design and you have these three things that's not enough someone has to have a need for it sometimes that's called that for the sake of witches came into existence we'll just call it that for the sake of these are of course called the causes but I want to talk about something that comes before causes and without which a cause couldn't be a cause for a cause as one thing but that without which of course could not be a cause is quite another thing now look ER let's take a look at this I mean that couldn't be there even if you had these things unless there was the possibility of going from the design and the plan and the skill and making something like the design I mean unless unless the nature of reality has the condition for a likeness nothing could be like anything else and this could not come into existence unless there was they condition necessary for it which is the idea of likeness same thing is true in terms of God God creates in any way in any way or something like a God creates or brings into an existence a universe there must be some similarities some likeness between the universe that comes into existence and the idea of it that is to say universe is nothing other than an idea in the mind of God put into existence but that's not possible unless before it came into existence there was the condition of likeness so likeness is the supreme principle upon which creation is presupposed now we can talk about other kinds of conditions but when I'm interested in how did we pick that condition as the one to talk about well doesn't it follow that the whole effort of the designer of this is to bring into existence something like the plan B no point in doing it unless that possibility existed would you agree and you and I agree together and we'll take on all people who will oppose us right good therefore in some curious way there must be in existence for certain conditions that are prior to that are prior to the manifestation of that likeness so what are we gonna do with that well I'd like to shift gears for a moment and skip a page because I want to use it later and go to this rather curious problem I'm gonna call this the search for common this here you see someone's sitting and let's say that's the meditator very notice no mouth not talking now in order to play with this image we have to assume several things let's assume there is such a thing as enlightenment let's go further because that's not enough you have to assume that it is something which admits of degrees or stages or levels and let's go further and so it can be hierarchically arranged so that we can talk about a partial enlightenment all the way to hierarchy a pure complete enlightenment or it is exactly what it is now let's go further inside that we have an interest in people who play this game of meditation and the quest for enlightenment and we can then say that some people reach this stage or this stage or the stage impossible therefore to run all the way up to the top well let's assume one more thing that this person has reached a partial enlightenment and as a consequence this person is interested in going beyond the partial amount now why would they want to do it if we can find out why they want to do it it's likely we'll be able to talk about what might be common to anyone in this pursuit if we get that then we might be able to go from stages to conditions and if we can go from stages to prior conditions that we can go back and take a look at the problem we presented ourselves for tonight so let's see whether you're agree this is not likely then we need a name for this person right what name good good very good all right all right there she is Pat thank you for that man let's go further now and say she has in fact now let's go backwards and call this the temp nine eight seven six five four three write that in her meditation she has reached the fifth stage Oh notice the language she has reached the fifth stage does that mean in the very nature of reality these stages must be in place already can we go further and say that's very interesting now what whoever we say about Pat we want to know whether we can equally say that about a group of other people or engaged in a similar activity who may in fact have reach different stages so we want to see whether we can generalize it would you be willing to just take one view and say in order to do that it took some kind of work some kind of dedication some kind of effort if it takes dedication and effort then it presupposes there should be some kind of drive or energy some kind of vital force that Pat can tap into now if she can tap into that vital force then that vital forest may have caused her to turn around and take a look at herself that's a a term we've run into before we're gonna call that see the word conversion is not a good word because some people can be converted today and they use that language without necessarily a turning about of their consciousness or psyche so we're gonna call that by the Greek name receiver what you see it's that that capacity within us to turn about reflect upon ourselves and consider that a very important aspect of our existence right okay so then she has this going for her she's got this now does that not presuppose in our talk that prior to her effort prior to this achievement she must not have been enlightened at all and therefore she must have gone from a lower to a higher and that possibility must be part of the nature of reality no looker that's an interesting movement going from a lower to a higher now that's a very interesting concept it's sometimes called in the Greek world purify the purifying of this of the soul so we can call this purification not that she's being dipped into anything like a baptism but moving from a lower to a higher by dropping the lower concern and allowing herself to merge with the higher that's all we mean by sea to purify from the lower to be able to ascend to the higher that's all we mean by purification now that we got her there you see what we need to do is to say what is there interesting about that well let's say one of the difficulties with temporary expedience or glimpses let's call them flim says it's by the very nature of a glimpse you don't have any staying power doesn't allow you to reside there it's a glimpse it's a tourist metaphysical tourist Wow now you can get that in a variety of ways any kind of energy display might wake you up into it but it has no staying power now what do we mean by that say well for that to be there there she is at Stage five that means in reaching that she can benefit by it to the degree that she is there she can maintain herself in that state possibly because she knows what she's inwardly gone through she might be able to return to it more readily than someone who doesn't know that so that maintaining is very significant and with it and whether there has to be some collective process that goes on that allows her to conserve in some way what it is she's reached because if it's only a glimpse then it's goodbye Charlie then you have nothing for your trip you want to in some way the end of State where you can maintain it conserve it that's what you need now that also means does it not that for each of these stages for the stages themselves the stages themselves there has to be some kind of a structure that holds them in place and maintains those levels the way they are not just that you've reached it that pat reached it but they are there to be reached and can be ordered in that way and in reaching and there's certain consequences that follow from it because if she only took up glimpse of it couldn't maintain that state for any length of time disillusionment is likely to take over right she couldn't conserve anything that she is seen while there it would have little benefit so equally well now these stages and themselves must have that capacity condition huh yeah what's interesting about this is that without one more element there wouldn't be much purpose in going through it at all now we're going to put a name on this we need a name so how use an old name right this is called there's a necessary protective force in the nature of reality because it protects the structure maintains each stage the way it is allows the possibility of some conservation going on through it all from which you can then from that have something to bring back and to be changed by it because if you don't have anything that you can take back or with you or because of it have that has any enduring feature there's no point in the glimpse at all so therefore built into this must be that possibility of conserving now to maintain and conserve is to defend all right that's defending and in that sense it's a protective that's how I'm using the word now well none of this would be of any consequence if there wasn't yet another reason we need this because unless there was something built into this necessarily that suggests at any level experienced there is something that necessarily built behind it is a dynamic that allows permits provides the condition for perfection and therefore that protection that that perfection means that the structure remains as it is remains in place and I noticed was it what it does it remains in place in that sense it's a preserving it's preserving a structure which has this potential of emerging higher right therefore it preserves a structure that is dynamic why dynamic because it has the capacity to pull one through it and it's not only dynamic but it's arranged hierarchically because perfection means hierarchical necessarily therefore the nature of reality must be a hierarchically multi-leveled structure which can reveal itself in the course of the spiritual exploration of man and from that we can then find these five principles which are built into the very structure of our reality which we're calling the conditions so therefore by looking at these stages and considering someone going for the ride right the spiritual ride of enlightenment we can say we've we can now point out these conditions necessary for this to be at all those are the conditions now can we not say that it's likely that what we've said would also fit Charlie and George east and west north and south would it even follow for someone who comes from Brooklyn that's the final test right all right look here for that to be in place gives another kind of and very interesting problems we need something else we need something else in this and I think you may see it implicit in this but I'd like to see whether we can make it right explicit and therefore you have to do some work luckily enough I brought it and luckily enough it's only a couple of sentences now I apologize for the fact that I don't have clean copies they're kind of marked up by my marks but what we're going to look at is a couple of propositions from vocalists and we're going to spend some time on 143 it's one of my favorites so don't look at it right away because we're gonna go to 142 first now okay once you get one set going hold it for a moment and pass the next this means therefore the condition for enlightenment is pervasive pervasive and continuous that's what this is saying because once we say it's true for reality then the condition for enlightenment is pervasive continuous not here and there right now now we called this conditions proculis calls it principles these are the principles of the nature of theology so let's jump into her okay let's jump there's one word we're going to look at keyword all right this word depending upon how you grasp it what do you do with it it's going to depend upon how you see everything we do everyone have two sheets that's right what do you I have an extra 126 142 is where we're going and even though 141 looks very very attractive right now we're just going for 141 142 apartment 142 143 now in order to help you this right conditions what are we saying about conditions he calls them principles now watch conditions since they have some kind of reality built into the nature of reality he calls them principles watch down one more step we do not agree that means built into the nature of reality built into the very structure of it with these conditions or principles that that is the source of goodness for those who can participate in it sure would you not agree for anybody becoming involved in this the necessary assumption is that to get into any state of enlightenment from three to ten presupposes that if it is hierarchically arranged to that degree there is a greater degree of goodness as you proceed up that hierarchical scale working back now we can say then built into the very nature of reality and the very structure of heaven is the principle of goodness being dispersed under these conditions watch now if each of these principles has a kind of unity it has a kind of unity we described it in such a way that you can identify the unity of each of these hands and you can then say it has a kind of an existence and that very existence necessarily brings about a goodness then principles of this kind are called deities or gods see the steps that's the way he calls it so if it has a unity one - if it can be said to exist eternally because it's the very condition for existence right very condition for it in other words this entire universe could for one reason or the other collapse so long as the conditions are still in place another universe might very likely emerge and the same thing could still be set in another universe to that degree then we can say that this is something that is out of time and in that sense it exists out of time it's eternal has a unity all right that's very interesting as an existence as an eternal structure it is in principle displaying necessarily in its production a goodness that's worthy of the name of a god therefore these are we can call them deified principles so with that I'd like to just read therefore 1:42 the gods are present alike to all things not all things however are present alike to the gods but each order has a share in their presence proportional proportioned to its station and its capacity right and capacity I'm putting in the word is something's receiving them as unities others as manifolds some perpetually and others for a time some incorporeal others through the body all right now watch I'm going to go to 143 all inferior principals retreat before the presence of the gods and provided the participant be fed for its reception whatever is alien makes way for the divine light and all things are continuously illuminated by the gods because a range of these experiences is something that we have encountered previously as the divine luminosity now look here take a look at this cookie I'm all inferior principals retreats before the presence of the gods and provided the participant be fit for its reception whatever is alien makes way for the divine light and all things are continuously illuminated by the gods now while he's going to do is give you two sentences to explore that did I hear something yeah yeah yeah and you will read therefore the statement God for the divine principles loud even that radience is that the weakness of the participants I would ask you whether would you would you make the judgment please reread it please obscuring by its weakness even that radius no dancer your question keep going when the light is another principle appears to assume Dominion yet it is not by its own potency but through the impetus of the participant that it has the appearance of revolt revolting do that passages did that again please fun when the light comes when the light is arts cured that appears to assume dominion glad no it's not by its own potency that's the impotence of the participant that's the cause of it all keep on it's just the appearance of it to revolt is that what it says thank you I picked on the right reader right there look here we have this structure and we have this very simple three sentence statement now what can we do with it we can say therefore from these principles necessarily all the time continuous pervasive what's emerging light louder divine light divine luminosity right and therefore it's going on all the time which is why when you have real good pictures of Tibetan sages and Buddhists and philosophers that were drawn before 800 BC they're always shown with sunglasses it's the divine radiance of so much right okay all right now if this is the case what does that mean who's got the problem we have the problem not the nature of reality relationship reality is not evil hey it's not flawed now let's take a look at it contrast something on okay this is the problem of Paul and Socrates now Paul as you know one of the founders of what is called Pauline Christianity was someone who was a hired killer and he saw that he was involved in a mission to stone people to death that was his job and he seems to have taken that with a great deal of glean and dedication these type scientists are not too prevalent in society but he was a murderer who would stone people to death and this strange duck if I may call him that on the road to Damascus had a conversion experience so we're told and the way to understand that conversion experience in theological circles is to say God through an act of grace picked him because he had a certain mission according to the story and therefore God admits of a relationship with participants that's what this says remember I said everything's going to him hinge on this one word relationship because would you not agree you and I might wonder given what we've been saying what did Paul go through to have such a conversion experience given the fact that he was stoning people to death and in those days they didn't make statistical studies on how many stones and of what weight it takes to break how many bones in what period of time in order to bring about death right they weren't concerned with statistics and those days but if this means does it not to explain that you need a theory the theory you have to have is that God enters into a relationship with the participants and since he can do that that's an act of grace now that's therefore take a look at 1:42 now the degree to which a person can participate in this must either be due to a deity or to the participant so let's take a look all right would you agree we need a reader go ahead okay no go go slow all right now here we go for the major major idea but keeps the same pervasive continuous doesn't depart from that what does that mean in this picture that does not permit allow or is there a place for a special relationship between the two Wow go ahead you're doing each order is pretty in the degree of its capacity and enjoys them in the degree of its presence that's right okay now look there it's got you louder gods are present all alike in all things so that means that there's divineness in all things equal it's the obscure there here mumbling allow the clock so God's our president equally yeah so pervasive that means I like it a lot and what's the reason for that come on also remember 143 what you just did it's obscured by its own weakness spring from the radiance itself impotence scar okay yeah want to do more so--that's keeps it to a certain level that's its degree of capacity great yeah well as my uncle used to say you can't be certain be sure okay no I now want to give you two problems one is called the problem of Paul and Socrates we looked at the problem with Paul we haven't mentioned Socrates yet that's what I want to wait for right but that's enough let's go back now they're convinced of these principles would you not agree you want to be very attentive to whatever takes you away from your goal well that is the block that's your block you want to know your block I listen as you try to achieve what's most personally significant to you whatever it is that persuades you to give up your goal that voice that feeling state that attitude whatever it is those three right that's reflecting your problem your block and it's persuading you to give it up that is what I call your inner Sophists that inner Sothis has an origin I comes from somewhere comes from your experiences that have convinced you that these ideas can justify your failure any idea that justifies your failure is sophistry period all right there's only one standard excellence anything in any way that convinces you that you can't achieve an inner excellence it's a problem sophistry now some people might say oh no that shows the evidence of something imperfect in the nature of reality or in opposition to reality a demonic force or something like this well these are belief structures people then rely upon to justify their own impotence all right okay now we go for the next one and that's why nearly all philosophers in the early paintings not only did they have sunglasses but they always had big ears right cuz they were always listening right always inner inner listening to these voices that persuade them not to do what leads to their own excellence right so it's not true the Buddha has a statue and he's got the biggest ears known and he sculpted yeah that's why I got them friend of mine told me not while he was known to lie I thought this was true right okay back here we go the problem what is this yeah well the problem with Paul is twofold one is you have his own statement of his conversion in Galatians and you have three accounts and the writings of Luke who appears to have lived 40 years after him and gives an account of this conversion experience of course it doesn't appear in Paul's own writing so therefore there's a problem whether or not it's genuine and things like this occur now that's a theological Knives argument that goes on among scholars theologians so let me deal with Socrates okay parent okay luckily enough I brought a book I'll just read a few quotes for you and but where God posted me I'm reading the apology but where God posted me as I thought and believed with the duty to be a philosopher and to test myself and others there I should fear neither death nor anything else in desert my post well this is what God commands make no mistake and I think there is no greater good for you in the city in any way than my service to God now therefore gentlemen so far is for pleading for my own sake because the apology is the trial as you know now therefore far so far from pleading for my own sake as one might expect I plead for your sakes that you may not offend about God's God's gift by condemning me for if you put me to death you will not easily find such another really like something stuck on the state by the God though it's laughable to say so skipping and therefore unless God sends you another in his care for you that I'm really one given by God I'll give you some reasons and he then gives some reasons why he thinks I know I could give a couple of more quotes but read one one more several very fine ones and I maintain that I have been commanded by the God to do this through Oracle's and dreams and in every way in which some divine influence or other has ever commanded a man to do anything now would you not agree one might claim God got to you or to contact you through dreams and meditations and chanting in a whole variety of ways what is this man and I maintain that I have been commanded by the God to do this through Oracle's and dreams and in every way in which some divine influence or other has ever commanded a man to do anything it's been busy that hasn't it now wait a minute that is special relationship what's the difference between this and this looks like a relationship to me yeah yes yes yes well that's why I'm raising this is the problem do you not see there's something wrong or right because if there is a special key relationship going on then everything we've done is wrong which is very possible whether it was actually he says it occurred one other time actually but that's a very vague statement and Corinthians okay more come on more maybe he was stoned himself that's all right that's all right I'll take it so therefore our problem is it looks like that everything we've done tonight Wow interesting doesn't fit which is it no wait wait decided was the result of wait a minute could you say that equally for Paul Klein say the same thing actually in one of the accounts on an AS was someone who guided all through the early stages that's the issue if graves special relation is special real relation then what we've developed is focus yes it's special relation yes see participation failure obscurity weakness can we do with that yeah yeah yeah I mean the Socrates would see has a more go push dice when he says grace I mean he just drive along it's not buy something you know there's no there's no I tried not so you know that's right Socrates this is a life are you then saying to the degree that he God receptive to the divine more pushing different levels vitalizing himself turning about going through all of these stages yes well okay look there let me it looks like you're getting some nice understanding so let's see if I can make it more complex and confusion right I mean after all yes do it again that's good that's great looker is there evidence want back into it is there evidence that in the socratic picture you have to go through stages and work and does he become fit for participation okay all right then we'll change this just slightly then at the tenth level let's assume Socrates for the moment reached the tenth level then relation then is possible and therefore the system Falls okay let's preserve what we've said about Socrates he made himself fit for participation and therefore for a special relationship with the divine which he claims he has had if that's so let us assume he reached the tenth level or the that stage which is actually the eighth right then we could say at that level it is possible to have a relationship now is there anything in Plato that suggests that where where where what yeah yeah same our world of appearance we can experience hmm more full of appearances or that which is not real these both suggested journey to special relationship is there anything in Plato that suggests son if I went to page 106 and the symposium in this edition of the great dialogues of Plato do you not reflect that there only it will be possible for him when he sees the beautiful with the mind which alone can see it to give birth not to likenesses of virtue since he touches no likeness but to realities since he touches reality when he is given birth to real virtue and brought it up will it not be granted him to be a friend of God and immortal if any man ever is does that suggest now how can we have it and not happen that's the trick and philosophy well that's easy yeah but the one we're on now is how can there be a relationship and at the same time say no relationship different levels of participation means therefore at the tenth stage talk about it in such a way that we can save it god that's true there's participation on each level louder I can't have the last part louder we got to talk louder if you're going that's true as you go up you lose more and more of the obstacles that prevented you from participating yes yes yeah right decidedly yes absolutely yeah the idea of some weakness in the participant when the light is obscured another principle appears to assume Dominion yet it is not by its own fluency some kind of a error of appearance what is real might be like which we could use to make these distinctions because there seems to be an appearance of something that appears to assume Dominion but the language might suggest doesn't that's right that's wrong it's only an appearance that's the that's the fun part of it to see at certain very interesting levels of those the most interesting and characteristic statement about these higher experiences when someone comes out of them says hey you know what what's obvious was in front of me all the time and I didn't recognize him how I was there all the time look here right is it possible that at this point the distinction between mind and lighten to this degree and a mind as such is no longer functioning and whatever Socrates is doing is doing nothing other than in some way bringing this about talking about it making it real which is nothing other than exhibiting in his own life and his own experience the very principles necessary for a structure of reality to be such that it makes a man a friend of the gods thank you let's do the reverse scribe they won't giving birth excuse me yes this is giving birth oh yeah yes yes yes that's another way of talking about yeah that's one of the metaphors you can use to explain well in the history of thought there was a battle between these two systems and the system Christianity put down this totally close the Academy right the Philosopher's were all killed exiled killed and therefore this triumphant history until last week so I never seemed pretty did he stop stoning people when he was converted did he stop starting people so far as the letters he wrote indicate yes okay thank you you

Channel: PostNothingness

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Keywords: Philosophy

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Length: 70min 42sec (4242 seconds)

Published: Thu Feb 05 2015