The Myth in Plato's Symposium (54)

good evening tonight is Plato's symposium we're on a cycle of myths and this is the myth of poverty plenty and love and Aphrodite in Plato's symposium now there's a lot in that and the biggest problem in studying mythology is that we've created the problem you have to see how a myth is used by an author because different authors use mythology and different ways mythology therefore is a challenge it offers a wide range of uses therefore if you want to study met the best thing to do is to go to the most profound set of thinkers to see how they use mythology because then from that you can see from the ideal those that are less than that ideal and it's easier to see the differences other part of the problem our way of approaching mythology is that people read a work and they identify something in a work that has gods and goddesses mythology they cut it out of the particular section and then they separated and they put it in a book like a cookbook with many other myths and they call that collecting the mythology together and then they get a way of bringing it about in terms of family origins and generations of the gods and they put it together in a complete package and that's called the study of mythology okay that's stripping it from its context that's independent of the author who's using it and therefore you will never discover the purpose to which it's being you because the purpose is in the context therefore we want to just take a look at a few things before we go into Plato's symposium all right okay first of all every myth there must be at least one divine figure that means either a god or goddess or a son of a god or a son of a goddess and Achilles of course was the son of a goddess Thetis so therefore in a myth you have at least one figure of divine descent II the divine or divine this descent there must be a drama about the figure or storyline a drama and the divine figure must be the personification of a set of qualities brought together into a unity serves a purpose must have a purpose the purpose can be found in the context in which the myth is embedded get to the purpose I think it's obvious to everyone that love is a problem China loves you bro we do not agree we can see the power of love in all of nature all conceptional birthing well occur I want to ask about that for a moment please come up for a few moments now with your own explanation for the origin of love in the universe please not for any particular species of purpose let's rot all nature and if there are other planets the whole universe alright okay come up with a couple now right I've got a couple of them gonna call upon them for a few minute in a few minutes I want to hear account your account of how did love ever get into the universe it's totally unnecessary in a mechanical universe and a mechanical universe is no need for two things love and worse than that more complex than that there's no need for the second most wondrous thing yeah no need for everything in nature that's in gauged in this tremendous effort appropriation might do it and by all kinds of mechanical ways and appearances of colors and scents and sizes and shapes and everything else there's no need for this at all that's totally unnecessary so we have two mysteries love and beauty can't leave one without the other so now look here how can you take something in the natural world and use it to understand something metaphysical but actually our practice since you know about our other myths we're going to do exactly the opposite uh-huh we're not going to go for that theory it's a waste of time we're going to go to the metaphysical and then use that to understand the everyday you can't go up we've got to go down can't go up can't go for me every day and discover the metaphysical you have to grasp metaphysical non-use that you understand the everyday now the context the context of this myth are these four ideas now the whole and simple way of understanding Plato is that you never use your own definitions for these ideas but only the authors never deviate no interpretation because he's using these words in a totally different way let me give you an example ignorance is not ignorance in the everyday sense it's Oh ran out of gas here you can see a beautiful picture here and this person happens to have as you can see in this beautiful diagram a thing called I believe well three out of four there you can see in this beautiful diagram a person with the belief now they have a very interesting and a special belief which makes them ignorant it is absolutely impossible for this person with this belief ever ever to use this to hit the truth they'll never get the bullseye that's ignorance what's the ignorant is when you have a belief and that belief is of such a kind that that belief will block you and make it impossible for you to hit the mark that is to say the mark is truth you can't possibly hit it with the belief you have that's ignorant now opinion in this case is going to be when you are told when you are told not when you discover when you are told the right way to go somewhere and so therefore you reach some Junction and you're puzzled and in some way usually by another person or a work you're told which way to go that's an opinion therefore you have an opinion about how to reach the truth now it's a very interesting kind of opinion yeah it's a right opinion or a true opinion but the person who has it doesn't know it's true they believe it's true now in the process of proceeding now if that person ever discovers the reasons why the reasons why it's a true opinion why it's true if they discover the reasons why it's true they have understanding understanding means nothing other than that now just because you understand why that opinion happens to be right or true doesn't mean you have knowledge just as if someone came up to you and said did you please tell me how to get to San Francisco because they didn't know how to get there and you say why I'll tell you what I happen to know the way to get there you take this road here follow it don't get off that road and sure enough in the end you'll get there well they hope they're giving you the true opinion they don't know it's true but they do have an opinion when they get there much to their surprise they will have discovered something I have they reached it that is to say they confirmed the truth of the true opinions in their own experience now they got something they confirm the truth of its true opinion in their own experience now they could go back and meet you again and they could say thank you very much but suppose you hadn't gone ever gone to San Francisco either you just happen to know the right Road to go there then they could tell you why that's opinion that you gave them is true because they could show you a map and point out if you're not familiar with the map introduce you to a map and they could show you therefore that following these kinds of science and this kind of information that their information was true they wouldn't know they haven't confirmed it haven't confirmed it so therefore let's go back right so if you have a belief some beliefs may block you from ever reaching the truth if you have a belief there's no such thing as San Francisco with that believe you're not going to take a trip there you're not even going to be interested in gaining any opinions about the nature of San Francisco if you do however gets suspend that belief and now you have an interest in this curious place then you'll be gathering opinions about it it for one reason or the other you suddenly have a true opinion about it and act upon it then that means you're going to try to confirm what it is that you've received as the true opinion and then if you know the reasons why it's true you have understanding confirm it knowledge these two are going to be together knowledge and wisdom but we want to wait for a minute before you can talk about this curious myth we have to know something about this now the only thing we need to know is that which everybody would agree that is that there is a vast and wondrous power to love I'm the vast and wonderous power to love now the reason why we have to go to the metaphysical level is because we have to open up the higher dimension of the nature of love in order to talk about it philosophically so therefore by talking about the power of it talking about the power of it that will allow us to see the range its range or scope and then we can use more precision and dealing with the way in which that power functions so therefore in this Socrates is great speech which is from his teacher his teacher was a woman reported to be a woman by the name of the atima right there she is look very much like this on the old wine bottles and the atima Socrates is teacher then unfolds to him a whole teaching about the subject about the nature of love of which he is said to be the wisest wisest teacher and in doing it she then relates this very interesting model of the power of love now in that model of love we will see the upper reaches of it and in that upper reaches of it that becomes the metaphysical realm once we have them the model of the power of love and can see the higher dimensions of it what's involved in it we can go back to the four categories we had a moment ago and we can see what must come in order for the whole thing to make a splendid unity so therefore we need the model therefore luckily enough I happen to have brought the text and I can use either whenever the lobe as well as the rouse addition so just quickly it's a very interesting shape I arrived and therefore at page 98 in the rouse which is approximately 202 D after Socrates is introduced to these four ideas what are they ignorance right opinion understanding and knowledge gia Tina introduces therefore something quite remarkable she says that the God how could a God be a God who has no share and beautiful and good things that's the question right how could a God be a God who has no share and beautiful and good things or we can say beauty and goodness therefore we can look at it we can say from this rhetorical question which is become ask rhetorical if if there is such a thing as a god that God must share in beauty and goodness that is the theory of what is sometimes called Plato's theory of participation and that is therefore stating that in for God is a God they will share in participate in beauty and that beauty must be linked to goodness so these two words are going to be joined beauty and goodness now see we're already on the theological level Road who sneaked into the theological level and now we want to play with it at a physical trickle level so therefore Socrates asks given this it says then what could love be immortal not at all she said what then what could love be love therefore is between two extremes love is between two extremes in yearly all metaphysics a mean analogy is the controlling element it is a controlling element because any two things whatever they may be if there is any way in which they can be linked together if there is any point about which they can be linked together that linkage is a mean and allergy a is to see two extremes a and C that common area which they share will call B therefore we can say a is to B as B is excuse me as B is to C so any two things in the universe that must be brought together in any way in which they can be said to Bri be related in any way they can be said to be combined in any way they can be said to join into a synthesis presupposes a mean analogy so quickly let me sketch the structure of the model and matter of fact I can do it if I can get you to read thank you would you be so kind of stream just as before then between liquor so you mortal and the inverse now when you do Plato you create you create and you fill in you add to whatever it is you develop we're creating a map an intellectual map that's what we're doing right now and it must keep on going for the entire dialogue so yes keep crying that's the main term the spiritual is the main term God so getting the power of love in this model alright what is the power of love two things go this way alright for men to the gods so that we can put up here gods man mankind man always sends up petitions and sacrifices to the gods as equally the gods are sent to send back glad which is letting you off a command or letting you off the petitions right - Requip right commands I tell you to do this and I'll release you from that command as a requital right I command you to do a B and C okay that's enough required okay go ahead to complete them so it completes them that's what the main analogy does that's what it does it binds it together into a whole therefore gods are involved in a dialogue with mankind through the activities of these arts that pass through this great thing called love that's the intermediary go ahead okay what's the list the art of divination the art of priests and priestesses yeah that's true that's true that's true and all concerned with sacrifices initiations trying to have that but the person who is the master of that that's truly a spiritual person and therefore they are standing as it were as the mean they are then functioning as low as ah now occur that means does it not that if his teacher Diaa tema shows that she has been effective in divination sacrifices incantations initiations all of these things then she is then watch the term she then can be said to be the personification pulls all of those qualities within herself therefore she can represent in herself the mastery of all of those arts and that if that's the case then Socrates's teacher was the personification of all of those things brought together into a unity therefore she functions as the mean between these two extremes good good all right so we'll put a little halo on her to indicate therefore spirits like this entire region between man and the Immortals are gods is a spiritual realm and the person who can function that way through all of these arts very high arts that's called truly a spiritual person they're functioning therefore in this way and completing it when they complete it therefore the gods were able to have a dialogue with man through this kind of a figure Shama yes rather than that's true yes that's good thank you all right now tomate is to trust and dear sometimes is one of the ways to translating the idea of God so it a trust in God dear Tina deals right yeah deal no not to deal JAMA all right good now all we need all we need is a risk okay someone risk what look you now have to come up with a theory you now have to try to give an explanation of why there is love in the universe and you have to try doesn't make any difference what do you have to try now we're going to put this back into this you see now whatever belief you have it should be the kind of belief which should help us and wisdom so if you have a belief about the nature of love in the universe but that kind of idea that you have is not the kind of belief that can allow you to reach that goal then you are bigger and that means therefore if you recognize it you may want to get over it and therefore you can then open yourself up to possibly new opinions you will not know whether they are true but you'll be invited to participate in this series of them and then you must then consider G of one of these things can be said together in such a way perhaps there is some reason why they're called true understanding then if you could confirm all of that in your own experience knowledge or wisdom so this well why is there a love yeah why what's the reason what's the argument just I can't hear to join the world and well but what's yeah okay what's the reason for that yeah I'm not rejecting your answer yeah about why do you know what do you need it yeah yeah okay yes yeah one of the most difficult questions in this game is to know when you have an answer to and whether or not you have answered a question or not that's one of the most important questions how do you know when you have an answer that it really answers the question that's being posed ya wanna try that's right I asked that did you say that here my question and you take it over as if it were your Oh I'm shocked between two extremes well look here I tell you well okay if love is the hole at sea to consider that now you're making a statement right love has to be there first okay so you keep that in mind in the way which you're visualizing it okay good yes please upside down all right so we'll shift the question now to what is the origin of love what does that mean how did love come into the universe what kind of explanation be given for that and that's why we need the next sentence now we're going to go into the myth when you personify you see personify love make it into a person then you can ask the question if it's a person who was its father and who was its mother right see how you do it you personify these great mysteries and then now you can ask about them respect to the nature of the story itself the nature of the story itself is of that love can be said to be the personification of something someone right there it is love personified as a person then you can ask what's the origin of the person now whatever qualities now occur whatever things you say come together into a unity whatever you say that's a brief that it could be brought together into unity that personifies the father then you're talking about the qualities that brought into existence love yes yes that would be bringing them together that's another mean a knowledge of quite true quite true okay all right now let's play now we have to then have a particular set of qualities for each of these people we said before therefore did we not that one of them has to be divine so one or some of these must be divine they must be able to personify and therefore by the way when you have an ideal personification of something you have a symbol symbol that's the nature of moving from a personification when a personification represents the qualities most ideally into a unity that becomes a symbol but let's charge now we're gonna get the drama go ahead and that's a great name for a father's and not if he was never at a loss right now we're going to get the qualities okay when they had dined poverty came in begging as might be expected with all that good cheer and long about the doors mmm no plenty then got drunk on the nectar for there was no one yet and went into Zeus's Park all had stopped so poverty because of her penury made a plan to have a child from plenty and laid by his side and conceived and in heaven this takes just a short while and outcomes and a servant to Aphrodite having been begotten at her birthday party and at the same time he is by nature a lover busy with Beauty because Aphrodite is beautiful Matheson's low is the son of plenty in poverty he gets his fortunes from that first he is always poor and far from being tender now what we're going to get is a series of qualities for each of the figures and the men we're going to identify you should then go back through the story and list every single one of the qualities assigned to each of these figures and when they come together you want to know then what are the set of qualities that love has and you'll tell me later perhaps which ones are excluded or are they all brought together these kinds of questions we can ask now sleeping by the doors and in the streets in the open air having his mother's nature always dwelling want see always and I'm not writing all the qualities down and good good good right born neither mortal or immortal therefore she could not have been a God born neither mortal or immortal that's a mixture there's a mix we have an ex ah he's a mix all right mortal does that fit our men die model God good same day sometimes he is blooming and alive when he has plenty sometimes he is done then again he gets new life through his father's nature but when he procures it plenty always trembles away so that love is not in one nor in wealth and again he is between wisdom and ignorance now that's contradictory that just goes love is not in one so sometimes it's of course the truth is this no God seeks after wisdom or desires to become wise say we added features to this model in that last description you have to keep going back and build on this through the entire dialog he added here wisdoms added here ignorance so please back it up notice now he goes back to our former distinctions and he's going to focus on two terms ignorance and wisdom he is not going into opinion or understanding so this whole thing that we developed you see now he wants to focus only on these two terms these two drop out this therefore is a model that features the motion the movement between the two and therefore implicit in this must be right opinion and understanding but he doesn't need it because he's talking about the extremes and the mean that runs through it ah go ahead nor intelligent should think himself good enough so he does not desire it because he does not think he is laughing and what he does not thinking Venus now that last line is absolutely critical in order to understand the math because that's the condition of man that's the condition of that could you read just what it is to be ignorant it's very important now I'm gonna make someone ignorant ignorant let's make sure we see that he's neither beautiful nor good nor intelligent but he thinks himself that he's good enough so he doesn't desire beauty goodness or intellect because he's satisfied with where he is making wax it that's right we don't use the word wisdom in our culture anymore no one knows what they mean by wisdom we don't think we lack it we don't make any distinction between understanding and wisdom the term is never used Shepton adds and several years he is going to use it he needs it now back into it back into it that's the end of the men that's a whole nother now what can we do with this now we were making some interesting statements where we say you have to go first understand what's going on metaphysically and then apply it to the phenomenal world right so let's go back and take a look at this in terms only of what we know about the myth and we can get it to read read once again if we need to what was the birth of love how did it come into existence see now we can talk about the myth watch the way we do it all right say what was the origin of love in the met how did love come into existence loudly sorry on the same day right remember the language on the same day what were they doing in the heavens they were holding a banquet they were celebrating what the birth of Aphrodite now of course you have to be a little Greek here at the moment everybody knows that Aphrodite is a goddess of beauty so looker what would the gods celebrating the birth of one divine beauty right so the origin of love in the universe occurred mythically then with the birth of Aphrodite she personifies beauty therefore we can say what happened why good heavens beauty how to come in the universe the gods were holding a feast for what a great banquet for what the birth of divine doing Oh so this whole myth depends upon that so therefore they're starting with the fact that there must be something essential in the very nature of reality and that is divine beauty because the gods held a great feast in honor of it that's the birth of Aphrodite and on the same day that notice we can substitute for Aphrodite on the very same day that divine beauty came into existence on that very same day what comes into existence so metaphysically then you understand the nature of divine beauty you know immediately that at the same time there must come into existence love same day same time now why that is so we don't know yet but we know that's what the myth is revealing all right well then what was happening therefore now notice the myth is not concerned with the birth of Aphrodite what factors brought her into existence because that would be then another kind of myth explaining how divine Beauty came into existence we're having a myth to account for the existence of love in the universe so therefore their levels of Mythology now what was going on now now we're going more into the myth what was going on at the time while they were holding a banquet and now we have to assume an existence of poverty and plenty all of those qualities must have existed and have a prior existence in the nature of reality they must be there in place before love comes into existence would you agree with that must be therefore you take all of those qualities together that are personified by Plenty and poverty and you must learn that these are the predisposing qualities that must already be in place in the universe before love can come into existence they only come together they only come together when Aphrodite was born that's when they come together so these two powers come together at the very moment when Beauty occurs into the universe and that therefore it becomes the deed to bring them together a synthesis a main analogy and that mean analogy as you've correctly pointed out is love now let's see if we can get more into those let's take a look at the myth again so it's only a few lines so could you read it once more and I'll tell you exactly where so we can cut cut it down a little bit and go have a little fun by going into it we're not interested in you see in this great myth all right when they had dined alright that's a banquet all right therefore there's a banquet is going on go ahead please just those next two sentences when the gods are celebrating the birth of divine beauty who comes in wait a minute what are all the qualities of poverty remember them want need to Skipton major wants it right could you do it unshod is a bad bad translation right without shoes it's poverty right and need all of those qualities suggest need doesn't know how poverty see the name yeah always dwelling with want that needs once so a primordial right most of the most paramount a sacred need comes in brings comes together with plenty the other extreme so we want some more qualities of poverty right we get him together and now she's hanging where by the doors and she can't come in until he passes out now look here where is this taking place in the garden of zoo now Zeus and Plato and all of the neo platonic thinkers and Platonic thinkers the garden of Zeus is the flowering of Zeus and Zeus is the same as noose which is divine intellect therefore this is a banquet held to celebrate the birth of divine beauty and it's being held in the flowering the garden the flowering of the divine intellect so we have the birth of a divine goddess of divine beauty and they're celebrating great banquet and then this unfoldment of the nature of love and how love comes into existence takes place and the flowering of the intellect see and the flowering of the garden of Zeus the flower and magnificent garden of the intellect okay go ahead nectar is the deathless strength that's what nectar means right the deathless that's the immortal part deathless immortal right and what does he do passes out hey becomes right what we call it asleep and when when in mythology when the gods go to sleep I had some way of saying that they pass out to the everyday world and that's often described in a variety of ways the simplest one is bliss right right you know there are another world they're in their own world that's the drink of immortality nectar and at that time she then obviously has a great desire need for plenty at that moment she then joins him and conceives yeah yes are you thinking about the language side when you're well you're suggesting yes isn't that the good way to do it that's very important yeah that's absolutely important see the myth cannot make any sense on the human level a recent study by Alexander Fenske write a very great study showed three three of his great researchers went out and they found that very few men could conceive to bring about conception when they were unconscious this was a startling discovery this was a very disturbing discovery and the study was hidden because the implications are enormous that's you see it violates our sense of common sense that's right but not on a mythical level if we're talking about it's at this moment that something is comes to birth it's at this moment something comes to birth it's conceived see and in this model there's no space between conception and birth so please watch now keep going where was what is he do watch the language right that's the drive in love to pursue Aphrodite now would you agree necessarily with these kinds of qualities then what must love be if it can satisfy all those things apartment what must Aphrodite be to satisfy all of those urges and and desires of love come on hard rough sleeping them ended want desire need for love to have these qualities in the pursuit of Aphrodite then what must Aphrodite have in order to satisfy those qualities of love must have must be able to bring about some resolution of those on the highest level or the story doesn't fit so now we can ask the question why does it follow if he has these qualities now we go to the other side plenty go ahead then he must have designs on what's beautiful he has designs on Aphrodite divine Beauty on set go ahead he's brave he's willing to go through whatever it takes to grasp that and share possess it good Drive go ahead i strong right because he's hunt he's on a quest always weaving devices bring around how to do it successful cover of wisdom as his father has already achieved wisdom therefore he wants to within himself that realized what his is is his inheritance his destiny that's destiny droste right that's the destiny it's got it he has it in the background that's his inheritance yes a little more go ahead philosopher all his days a great wizard philosopher means a lover of wisdom if he's a lover of wisdom and he's pursuing Aphrodite the goddess of divine beauty then there must be a connection between divine beauty and wisdom there must be a connection between the two now this is why in our culture we cannot make sense of the wisdom traditions of the world because we don't stress the fact that in the ancients especially in this whole Greek platonic world that wisdom is the most beautiful that's it the highest experience of beauty is had in the experience of wisdom or put it the other way around the very nature of the experience of wisdom is an experience and divine beauty they have to go together because love came into existence at the same time as Beauty would you not agree if a divine beauty comes into existence anyone who has a desire for beauty at that moment would come alive and pursue it anytime any of us can recognize something as both beautiful and good what do we do we want to go towards it and mr. Cheeseman step aside I don't want to be second necessarily then all right could you continue and wash it to fold when he has plenty among the qualities of plenty is the successful cover door of love appointment successful cover and other times that's right in what for that yeah you know the only problem the only problem in the whole nature of reality the only problem which would make it very simple for all it's just one thing if at the moment when anyone became wise they would vanish get on his face craft as it were if at the very moment they grasped the nature of divine beauty and therefore got into a mystical state of pure beauty if that would ended bang it's over transformation and gone but the next day the saint has to have a cup of coffee right the same day that's right it has a beginning middle and end and therefore now it's they certainly may penetrate it more deeply and they become great more greatly involved in it they may share in to a greater degree they may participate it and more fundamentally and on a more intrinsic level all of that can be true but got to come out of it up and down yes then quickly after sit down we're going back here so now he's between ignorance and wisdom and therefore we need a definition of both all right watch what he does then to become wise for Riesling she's already nor does anyone else seek after wisdom FES rise already come on you're wise in the state you're in now remember what we said earlier all right let's go back nip must serve a purpose I'm mr. e now this has to come together this we're calling the model this we called the myth and they now have to come together to serve a purpose if we don't have the purpose then we don't understand the why the author or whoever is relating the story is using it therefore that's what we need we need the context within which to understand this thank goodness there's another paragraph and they're short one at that all right remember the last point description of ignorance is wisdom and therefore Socrates comes back to deity man raises the most interesting question Coretta if those who seek after wisdom are neither wise nor the ignorant no where are the philosophers that's their enough even to a child now we want to read this carefully enough so that we can see to what degree the atima is using the key elements of this myth the key elements of the model goes back to those four distinctions ignorant opinion understanding knowledge and wisdom and brings them together into a unity we want to see that and we want to see at that moment whether it then discloses the purpose of them then the use of the model brought together we can see that then we'll understand the myth and as I say we're very lucky it's a short paragraph could you be so kind as dungeon right now let's do it together now all right this is the myth okay I'll underline it'd be nice to have another blackboard yell gun the model as love is the model right that's where love is between these two yeah read it again please they're poor what's between these two that's right between these two who did we say before it was between these two personified and his teacher yeah therefore what can we put over here right oh go ahead say wisdom has to be and therefore if you catch a glimpse of it to the degree that you can catch a glimpse of it it would awaken a desire for it at the same time at the same day that you perceived it or caught a glimpse of it or discovered its possibility any of those what would awaken at the same day therefore to the degree that you can you can catch that this curious of all notions that wisdom must be most beautiful the most beautiful thing in the universe all right you got that Wow then if he can catch a glimpse of that what will he do pursue it it will awaken a need a want a desire will it not so go ahead love love the beautiful anytime anybody perceives what they regard is beautiful it doesn't make any difference who or what they are there's a desire naturally for it his birth is the cause of this top method so he comes up a wise and resourceful father never right grab right back in the met pulls them together Socrates you made a mistake you've got them confused you thought the lover right was it was the beloved that's your problem see through this entire speech of deity Emma she's going to straighten out four terms love loving the beloved lover the whole speech dosa the myth just picks up these aspects okay go ahead now we're going to get a new definition of it go ahead what's that this that's this hold it that's this isn't it this is the thing love now hey look here what are we going to do with these terms we can then say these terms represent Aphrodite try so what did what must she be then more come on what are the qualities what's the qualities of wisdom you just read them wise resourceful for the thing loved is in fact beautiful my dainty perfect blessed it's perfect its blessed the word dainty isn't there the word is tender tender in the sense that accessible it can be entered into a bright tenant it doesn't create obstacles therefore Aphrodite must be regarded as all beautiful perfect blessed therefore anyone then who encounters it deserves the title of the Blessed they recognize now a perception into the nature of divine duty as perfect where where's all of this disclosed and the Garden of Zeus well I mean therefore it's through the functioning of the intellect that this therefore is perceived this is where the drama takes place and the rest of the symposium therefore is to try to show how the individual philosopher must develop the intellect in order to get into this game so that they can perceive the nature of beauty as wisdom or wisdom as beauty which is another expression of Aphrodite what your would you not agree what does this do this tells us about it does it not and if you begin to see the reasons why what is being said as being said if you understand the reasons why the opinions you are gaining or learning are true or right that's understanding but now you have to have a way to confirm it so that it's yours and not the author's alone right you want to enter into it you don't want to be told all right even though it's nice to be told beautiful things you want to get into it and do it experience it become part of it so then liquor did deity Madan bring together the model in the myth did it then open up and allow us to understand the myth in a new way did it relate therefore to a higher purpose because one of the great mysteries is what is this crazy thing called philosophy and the philosopher so therefore this myth serves a great purpose not only to acquaint us with a metaphysical realm of the nature of reality being what wisdom itself than perfect and blessed and beautiful but how the divine how the intellect therefore gain a perception of it and confirm one's understanding and a higher experience right ha ha that's very thing we were talking about there for the context of the myth presupposes the model they both must be brought together to serve the purpose a higher purpose because the context allows us to see the purpose of the myth is not what we said the purpose of the myth there's a mystery to unfold the mystery to unfold is the curious thing called the philosopher and therefore the purpose of the mythos to disclose the nature of the philosopher and philosophy within a metaphysical structure now we can turn around and say hey how does love function in the everyday world we can say Oh everywhere in nature in every place we can see a desire for the beautiful and procreation on the various levels in which it can be done in the way in which it's done by different kinds of entities and living entities can we not we got to talk about we can fit the everyday phenomenal within a metaphysical now we don't go the other way around we go to the metaphysical first workout all these relationships and then see if we can see the everyday world on a higher level so to be able to see them everyday world within the metaphysical context is the way of using this curious thing called philosophical myths of Plato and that's what we've been doing and therefore I'm open to your questions I think I've completed it have we done good since he doesn't spread birth Beauty not here not a Nesmith oh my question is did play to ever describe and any other man what would we have to go to the standard Metro won't say what's interesting if we look at myths as understood by modern Robert Graves he will show that for each of these myths they vary in different places and at different times it's not just one so therefore what you want to see is the highest expression in use of this and therefore you go to those thinkers with whom that that functions yes he does we can go see Aphrodite as divine beauty is a mythical way of expressing what is called the idea of the good now the idea of the grid is not a thought it's a Greek word idea which means to be able to behold it so to be able to hold the good or the one to be able to hold it the experience of one has his Aphrodite divine duty so that's what it is and therefore he talks about that in various dialogues that's the whole purpose of making the metaphysical and unethical into one continuous parallel story and that's the Phaedrus it's also the republic centrally and maybe we should do that next time you

Channel: PostNothingness

Views: 1,856

Rating: 4.6571426 out of 5

Keywords: Philosophy, Plato (Author), Myth, Symposium (Book)

Id: 94I318Hojmk

Length: 76min 10sec (4570 seconds)

Published: Tue Jan 20 2015