Ben: Hey, what's up? Holo, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Simply PodLogical, a Simply Nailogical podcast.
Cristine: Holo.
B: I'm Ben.
C: And I'm Cristine. B: Cristine's looking very ... You're looking like cute and smart. You're like it's...
C: Because of my glasses. B: Yeah, Cristine's wearing glasses, for anyone listening to this.
C: I look more like you now. What does that mean?
B: Oh, you look much better than me. Why are you wearing them? Did your eyes get worse all of a sudden, Cristine?
C: Well, I can see fine. I have 20/20 vision, actually. I was recently confirmed by the hospital.
B: That's right.
C: But I'm wearing blue-light glasses, in part because maybe that's a good idea when you spend so much time looking at a screen, but also because it's covering my eye rashes. So ... I mean, not so much. I think I need a better lens shape for my face. This isn't really ideal, but it kind of works. B: Yeah. So this is the first time you're on camera since you posted a YouTube video acknowledging that you're having some health issues, I guess it's fair to say.
C: What's wrong with my face? B: Yeah, and there was a very nice reception to that video.
C: Yeah.
B: People were very supportive and just an amazing number of people, particularly young women, I think, acknowledging that they have or have [had] similar issues. C: A skin condition. Yeah. And it's overwhelming the amount of support and advice and, you know, not people trying to diagnose me, but just expressing their own experiences with the hardships that come along with something like a skin condition, especially when it's on your face. Like that's not fun to have when you're trying to look at people and talk to them and they're just like "I can't concentrate, because your eyes look like demons!" So. B: Yeah, I know one reason to make the video is like you kind of acknowledge it, get out of the way, and now we're not going to have to talk about it all the time, right? So I think we just wanted to acknowledge it now quickly, say thank you, and then just ...
C: And we're also back. Apologies that we skipped the podcast last week, but you know what?, we're back. It's Taco Tuesday. It's a reminder that it is Tuesday. B: Sorry we didn't remind you that it was Tuesday last week, but Cristine deserves a break sometimes.
C: Yeah.
B: Right? So it's a good thing Cristine looks smart today, because we're going to be talking about politics: everyone's favorite subject. But don't worry. We're not going to be moralizing, getting on our soapbox, and telling you who to vote for. I thought we ... It would be interesting if we took one of those political compass quizzes or tests to kind of show where we fall on the political spectrum, because in our last episode two weeks ago we talked a little bit about our experience in university and specifically in grad school. And a question came up from the audience about did we think that there was a political bias on ... in our university, in our program. And I think we acknowledge that we consider ourselves left-leaning people, generally. I think we think that about ourselves, but at the same time, in the environment of a sociology grad department there were a lot of people way further to the left than us, I think. So it did make me think, you know, "Where do I actually fall on the political spectrum now?" And I thought some people might find that interesting. C: Yeah, I think this is an interesting topic. I think influencers try and steer away from politics sometimes. I mean, like yes and no. Like you don't really hear them be like "Today I'm going to talk about politics." It might come up in things they tweet, but ...
B: Well, I guess there are some political channels specifically and there's an audience for that right?, but then when you have a guy like Casey Neistat come out and--what's the meme? He goes "Hillary Clinton."
C: Oh, I remember that. B: "I'm voting for Hillary Clinton."
C: I rememb--- B: And the internet just tore him apart. And I guess there is a sensitivity out there about ... I guess there's an expectation that people use their platform for good and advocate for certain things and I think we have, but I think audiences are very sensitive to, you know, celebrities using their platforms to tell people how they should think or vote a certain way. I think there's a reason why that rubs people the wrong way and I think you have the right approach or I think I agree with your approach in that there are social causes you care about that you have advocated for and we're not shy to share our opinions and they can get political at times. But I don't think it's our job to tell people how they should think about certain things or how they should vote as much as if people look up to us and see us as role models in some way or just appreciate the way we look at the world, if we share our opinion on something it might help someone see it a certain way, too, without us just telling you how you should think. C: Yeah, I agree with you. That's the approach that I personally like to take, although I can understand in the U.S. it's just becoming more increasingly frustrating and sometimes I think influencers, maybe they're just thinking "It's just more direct if I just say this, so there is just no confusion anymore" and people are getting frustrated with just the state of everything. So I also see that perspective. B: Yeah, based on our values, you could probably guess how we would vote and maybe by the end of this podcast ...
C: If we were American. Which we are not. We are Canadians. So.
Ben: That's true. But ... And maybe by the end of the podcast after we take the quiz you have an even better sense of where we sort of line up or fall on some political issues. I know in the last Canadian election, the CBC had this sort of vote-compass tool that a lot of people use, where it's like If you ... if you're not closely following politics and you just want to take a quiz to see how you feel about certain policies and how that lines up with certain political parties, there are tools like that that are actually pretty useful. I remember we did that.
C: I did that last election and it was helpful, because sometimes you think "Well, maybe I align with this party because there's this one thing on their political platform that I like. But you don't really know all the other ideologies or policies that they have under their platform. So taking these kinds of tests for yourself is helpful. And when we did our personality quiz test, a lot of people commented in the comments that they took it alongside with us. So I think that's a really good idea. So we'll put the link to this, the test we're taking. We're not affiliated with them at all and we're not saying that they're necessarily like the most accurate. We ... I honestly have no idea. We're about to find out or I am anyways, but you can take it alongside with us and just see how you come out, too. B: Yeah, you totally should. So the quiz, it plots you on two axes. So one is a left/right axis: that's mostly about sort of your economic policy sort of orientation and then there's a vertical axis as well. That is more about whether you're libertarian or more authoritarian: whether you favor a style of government along that sort of dimension as well. So it plots you as in those sort of four quadrants. So, yeah, it's a pretty interesting test. Yeah, we invite you to "play along" with us at home. It's actually not that long ... C: "Play along," except all of this isn't really a game, is it? B: And I think, you know, no matter where you fall on the political spectrum, whether you're left or right, communist or capitalist,
C: Okay. B: fascist or anti-fascist, I think we can all agree that Oats Overnight is a delicious way to eat oats that are high in protein, low in sugar, and gluten free. Got delicious flavors. Like what is it? Mocha Dream, Chocolate Peanut Butter Cocoa Crunch, C: Chai Latte.
B: Chai Latte.
C: I'd vote for that.
B: Strawberry and cream. So basically you just get this little pouch of like oats and protein powder. You put it in your shaker, add milk or a milk substitute. Shake it up. Leave it in the fridge and the next morning you have a delicious breakfast.
C: A delicious, nutritious breakfast that is filling. I mean, most importantly it tastes good, but I like the fact that it has enough protein in it for you, which makes you full and also like just helps you with your nutrients. I've been experienced experimenting with different milks. So you can put any type of milk in it. And I think the most common one people go to is like almond milk or coconut milk, but try oat milk in your Oats Overnight.
B: Aren't you being overloaded with oats there? C: You know, you don't want to "oatver" do it, but I think it works. It's really good. I've been doing oat milk.
B: All right, so if you're interested in trying oats overnight go to Oats.Com/Simply and use code SIMPLY for 10% off. Again, that's Oat.Com/Simply and use code SIMPLY for 10% off. C: Vote for oats.
B: Vote for outs. Okay. Are you ready for the quiz, Cristine? Are you ready for your test?
C: I'm ready for my test. Look at me: I've never looked more ready! Where is my HB pencil? B: All right, here's a little introduction:
"Before taking the test. Please note that this isn’t a survey, and these aren’t questions. They’re propositions. To question the logic of individual ones that irritate you is to miss the point. Some propositions are extreme, and some are moderate. That’s how we can show you whether you lean towards extremism or moderation on the Compass. Your responses should not be overthought. Some of them are intentionally vague. The purpose is to trigger reactions in the mind measuring feelings and prejudices rather than detailed opinions on policy."
C: So basically they don't want us to waste time being offended at questions that are intentionally offensive.
B: Exactly.
C: Gotcha.
B: And not to overthink the question. It should be mostly a gut reaction. So we've got two windows pulled up here. If you're watching at home, or if you're playing along at home. So, Cristine, first off we're starting off with a bang: "If economic globalisation is inevitable, it should primarily serve humanity rather than the interests of trans-national corporations." C: I feel like I'm back in school. Like the amount ... the number of big concepts in this one question.
B: So for every question, it's just you Strongly Agree, Agree, Disagree, or Strongly Disagree. There is no option to take a neutral stance. They're really trying to get you to take a position on both of these [unintelligible].
C: Political science students know the answer. They know what the question is, too. B: Do you unders-- Do you need some help here?
C: Yeah. Help me out. I mean, help the audience out.
B: So I ... This first one is a little heavy. So it's asking is ... If a global economy is inevitable due to globalization should it serve humanity or the interests of the corporations participating in that capitalist superstructure? C: So, okay, the way it's just being asked is it should serve humanity, so I would agree. B: Okay.
C: Not strongly. Because you've got to balance it. And I understand the implications of ... Anyways, I won't give my full ... B: You can give your ... I also agree. So I think what they're getting at here is some conservatives would take the view that the profit motive for corporations has to come first before human values and that's how a capitalist system works. I would like to think and I also agree with the proposition here that we can imagine an economic global society system that can put people before profits in some way that still works.
C: Humanistic economic globalization. B: Humanistic capitalism? All right, next: "I’d always support my country, whether it was right or wrong."
C: Strongly disagree. Like who ... Was that question for Trump supporters? B: Yes. I will also strongly ... Okay, we're just throwing that out there, right? C: Sorry. Okay, I will ... Yeah, I'll keep my opinions in.
B: Along the same lines: "No one chooses his or her country of birth, so it’s foolish to be proud of it." Is it foolish to be proud of where you're born, Cristine? C: I don't think it's foolish to be proud of it. You just have to make sure you're not incorrectly being proud of it.
B: Well, I think it's foolish to be proud of it just because you were born there, but if you're born in a country that you're proud to be associated with and identify with
C: Exactly.
B: Yeah. C: Yeah, I don't think this this question is fair, because what about all the immigrants who have become Canadian citizens? Like I know many of them who are proud to be Canadian. So this question would exclude them.
B: I think it was ... We're supposed to not overthink these questions.
C: Sorry.
B: But i'm going to disagree. C: Yeah, I would ... I would disagree. Yeah.
B: Okay. "Our race has many superior qualities, compared with other races." It's weird even seeing that written, eh? I feel weird having to say that out loud. C: In fact you just said that, but someone's going to take that clip. B: Okay, obviously, that's a Strong Disagree.
B: Yeah.
B: Can I speak for you?
C: That is like just ... Yeah. Go to school 101 and you will learn. B: "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."
C: Oh, this sounds like an episode of "Billions." B: Okay.
C: Or "Succession." Sorry, I've been watching a lot of those shows about the economic downturns, like from ten years ago.
B: "Billions." I never saw that show. Is it good?
C: Yeah.
B: Okay. I don't like the spirit of this so I'm going to disagree.
B: Okay.
C: But not strongly, because I do understand the logical advantage of what it's trying to get at. B: I think we've answered the same for every one so far. C: Well, stop copying me!
B: I'm copying your homework. I think the enemy of my enemy is just as likely to also be my enemy as they are to be my friend. C: Okay. Confusion. B: "Military action that defies international law is sometimes justified." C: There's just no context to this.
B: Well, that's ... Yeah, that's the point.
C: Yeah. B: What do you think? Here, I'm going to go first so people know I'm not copying you. I slightly agree with this, because I think our sort of regime of international law right now Is kind of toothless and kind of a joke. C: That's a good point. I would have said neither disagree or agree if it was an option,
B: You're not allowed.
C: because it just really depends. You're right. Sometimes the law itself may not make any sense, so why would we defer to it? Always. Right? Things change. B: You have to you have to answer something here. C: I'm going to disagree.
B: Okay.
C: But like ...
B: There you go. C: Barely.
B: You believe in some sort of international order.
C: Sort of. B: The U.S. shouldn't be able to do whatever it wants.
C: I'm not saying ... I don't know. International law isn't the utmost thing.
B: All right. Next one: "There is now a worrying fusion of information and entertainment."
C: You mean fake news? Is that what this is about? B: No, I don't think it's necessarily that. Or maybe. I think infotainment, as some people like to call it, is more of a symptom of a problem than the problem itself. Like I don't like ... When you see shows now on Netflix--I think it may have been canceled, but Hasan Minaj, "Patriot Act," is that what it was called?
C: Yeah.
B: I don't think there's anything wrong with involving ... packaging politics for a young audience in a very entertaining and comedic way.
C: Exactly.
B: The same way "The Daily Show" did that for us when we were younger, right? So I don't think that is necessarily problematic. I think it is problematic that most people are getting their news that way, and that was even a problem back when "The Daily Show" was a big thing. Like Jon Stewart will always say it's like shocking how many young people would tell him that was their main source of news. C: I think you would strongly agree with this question if you're ... if you buy into the moral panic of fake news ruining us. So I'm going to go the other direction and I'm going to say I disagree, because it's not necessarily a big worry that we have information and entertainment happening at the same time, you just have to do it responsibly.
B: I'm going to say i'm slightly worried about it, because I just am shocked how often it is the case that people seem so not engaged and uninformed about pretty basic news. C: Yeah, but that's a different worry. I wouldn't blame it on entertainment.
B: That's my gut reaction.
C: But we differ on this one question.
B: A little bit. There we go. Okay. "People are ultimately divided more by class than by nationality."
C: That depends where. B: I mean, it depends on a lot of things, but what's your gut reaction to that proposition. C: Jeez, I mean, am I thinking of the States or ... B: I agree that in my context, in my life experience, people's class has way more to do with how our society is stratified than nationality.
C: I would say that, too, but I think some Americans might go the other way and say it's much more divided by nationality, like where you're from. B: But we're not answering for some Americans, we're answering for ourselves.
C: I know, I'm just pointing out how it's interesting that you can totally see this through another lens. But I would agree, I would strongly agree, too, that at least where we are it's ...
B: Strongly agree?
C: Yeah. B: Sure. "Controlling inflation is more important than controlling unemployment." C: I want to say strongly disagree, but I hesitate, because I'm honestly not that well versed in the consumer price index and like the impacts of inflation on markets and how that might indirectly impact people's jobs. B: Yeah, a government needs to control inflation so that doesn't lead to a C: Right, like a crash.
B: economic collapse. C: So like you want to care about people and their employment and employability and jobs existing, but Inflation is still important to control. You can't just dismiss it. So maybe I'll just one step disagree.
B: One step disagree. Okay, I'm going to copy your answer. I do feel that way. All right, next one: "Because corporations cannot be trusted to voluntarily protect the environment, they require regulation." Is this true, Cristine?
C: There's a lot of assumptions in this statement.
B: Do corporations not respect the environment? C: I think a lot of things require some regulation or board otherwise. B: You're really dancing around these questions.
C: Because there's not enough information. B: That's the point!
C: But no one should have a knee-jerk reaction to any of these questions and if you do you jump to conclusions.
B: The whole point is to have a knee-jerk reaction. C: But I don't like it. I'm a logistician, Ben. I need more information.
B: Do corporations require oversight to protect the environment. C: Yes. Generally. B: Do you agree? You're strongly agreeing?
C: Okay. Yeah, I strongly agree. But it depends who's regulating.
B: Yeah, everything depends on everything.
C: Okay. Got it. I'll stop over-analyzing. Tomorrow. Tomorrow I'll stop.|
B: Here's a quote for you: “'From each according to his ability, to each according to his need' Is a fundamentally good idea."
C: Who said that? B: Karl Marx. I think. C: Really?
B: Yeah. That's a very like communist principle, right? Like in a fair society a person would contribute just what they are able to, what is commensurate to their ability and they should just receive back whatever it is their need is.
C: Right. Got it. B: Yeah. What do you think? Are you a communist here?
C: I am and I don't like these questions. I am not in a box of anything.
B: Okay. C: Unless it's a holo box. B: I do disagree with this. I think you've got to give some people some incentive to receive more than they need. Yeah. C: Yeah.
B: Why do we work so hard?
C: Yeah, we don't need anything else. I don't have strong feelings about this one, but I will just say disagree,
B: Okay.
C: to copy Ben's homework. Repay the favor. B: "The freer the market, the freer the people."
C: Oof. B: I disagree with this one. I don't think just unregulated free markets leads to a ... I mean, I guess there's a difference between a free society and a fair society, but I'm mostly concerned about a fair society. C: Yeah, I don't like the spirit of this statement.
B: Okay. "It’s a sad reflection on our society that something as basic as drinking water is now a bottled, branded consumer product." C: I don't ...
B: I'm being called out for liking Fiji Water here.
C: You're being called out. B: I'm being called out.
C: It's sad. It sounds like something my grandma would say, actually. B: It's something I would say: I think it's a little sad.
C: You think it's sad? B: As much as I enjoy Fiji ...
C: I don't think it's sad.
B: It's kind of sad that, you know, water like ... It's sad that Nestle is buying up water in countries where people don't have access to clean drinking water. You know what I mean? It's ... C: Yeah. No, I can see that. I guess I'm just looking at it from the Is all consumerism bad, then? B: No, but I think this is a pretty extreme example where something as basic as water that falls from the sky and accumulates in lakes Is sold as some premium product. C: So why do you drink only Fiji Water, Ben?
B: I just like the way it tastes. C: I disagree.
B: Okay.
C: Because I think it's just silly to be sad about consumerism.
B: Cristine just doesn't believe in emotions.
C: No. B: All right: "Land shouldn’t be a commodity to be bought and sold."
C: So who owns it? B: The people. The collective people and they only receive as much of the land as they need. C: Oh, well, that part isn't in this statement. B: I'm making some assumptions here, but I just need your gut reaction. My gut reaction is I disagree with this. I'm okay with land being something you can buy. C: Yeah, I disagree, because I don't know how it would make sense any other way without people murdering each other. B: That's ... We're just so indoctrinated into capitalism, you know, we can't see any alternative. C: I just ... I can't picture it. B: "It is regrettable that many personal fortunes are made by people who simply manipulate money and contribute nothing to their society." C: Simply manipulate.
B: This is a really interesting question, I think.
C: So who are they ... like what's an example of someone?
B: An example would be someone who just plays the stock market all day. Or like someone who does day trading of stocks, I think, is the first thing that comes to mind for me. This person is literally producing nothing of value. They're speculating on the value of other companies and potentially making a lot of money doing that. Although most people who try day trading or Investing in crypto and stuff like that, those people are very eager to tell you when they make some money from doing something
C: Well, it's like gambling.
B: and they never tell you when they fail. Yeah, it's basically gambling.
C: It's gambling. Where do you fall on this, right? I strongly agree. As much as ... like we're invested. I invest my money into things: in securities, equity. C: Yeah, I would strongly agree, too. B: There you go. Take that, bankers! "Protectionism is sometimes necessary in trade." C: What do you think they mean by protectionism?
B: So I agree with this a little bit. That sometimes you just have to think about your country first. You know, Am--- Like Donald Trump's all about like America-first trade. Like a protectionist ...
C: Like what happened recently with the steel trader. B: Yeah, yeah. Exactly. So there's tariffs on steel imports or exports from Canada to the U.S. C: So he was engaging in protec---
B: But like we have free-trade agreements to avoid these things and then occasionally people just break them. Right? C: Um.
B: I just think at a certain point you do sort of have to ... I mean, unless you sort of reject the idea of the nation state and any like the legitimacy of a nation in general.
C: I want to slightly agree with this; doesn't exist, I don't know. Agree.
B: All right, I'll take it.
C: It depends, but it can be abused, which I don't like either. B: All right, next one. "The only social responsibility of a company should be to deliver a profit to its shareholders." C: Dis--- strongly disagree. It's not the only social responsibility. Think about it.
B: You strongly disagree.
C: Yeah.
B: Okay. B: I agree, because I think at the end of the day a company's main motivation priority needs to be the profit motive. I think it's more for outside regulatory forces to sort of force them not to destroy the environment or, you know, give their employees a fair wage and things like that. But I think from us having some experience like running a company or being involved in business, we know that like the first priority in like a nail polish line has had to be to make it profitable and make it work, right? But that doesn't mean we don't also consider the other social responsibilities we could have
C: Exactly.
B: as a company.
C: So this is just saying the only responsibility should be to deliver a profit, so I'm saying there are absolutely more. B: Okay, my gut reaction was to agree, because I think it is the main responsibility of a company Here's one: "The rich are too highly taxed."
C: Oh, boy.
B: What do you think, Cris?
C; Wait, didn't ... We kind of talked about this
(B: Do you pay too much taxes?) before when we were talking about Jeff Bezos and the billionaires.
B: So here's where it's ... I know you're supposed to give your gut reaction, but the nuance here is if rich people actually paid the taxes they're supposed to pay, I think they are being taxed enough. Taxes are high enough if people pay their taxes. I think there are way too many loopholes and ways for rich people or companies to shelter their taxes offshore. C: Because at least where we are (Im not as familiar with in the states, obviously), but the percentages it says like you have to pay after you make a certain amount of personal income, they are quite high. B: Yeah.
C: And if people are ... Assuming rich people, however you define that, is paying that then that's a lot, and I think a lot of people would be happy to see those numbers. B: Yeah, but i'm going to slightly disagree in the spirit of the question that, yeah, you do have guys like Bezos and Elon Musk making billions of dollars while they're not paying the, you know ... You've heard this spiel before.
C: It's like the super rich, B: Yeah.
C: the multi-- Like the billionaires. Because they don't need that much money.
B: The billionaires on billions.
C: Yeah. No.
B: So do you agree or disagree, Cristine? This shouldn't be stressing you out so much.
C: Guys, I'm stressed.
B: When was the last time you took a test?
C: it's been years. The nail art exam. B: You want to agree. I know how mad you are every time we have to pay our taxes.
C: I want to agree, but I feel bad agreeing. B: Okay, that's your gut reaction. You're agreeing.
C: But I don't like agree that much.
B: Cristine exposed. "Those with the ability to pay should have access to higher standards of medical care." C: Oh, this is interesting, because this just came up for me personally. B: it did and, you know, I've been looking into this and ... So in Canada, we're very proud of our public health care system. And I think my feelings about it is that a country should have a medical system that doesn't turn people away. Everyone should have access to medical care. But I think there is room for a hybrid system that allows people with means not to jump to the front of the line, but maybe there is a private clinic, maybe if you need a very fancy procedure or are dealing with a tricky medical issue and you're willing to pay a specialist. I think i'm okay with that being something people can pay for. C: But doesn't, if that exists, erode the baseline service, because then doctors jump ship to the one that pays more and, you know, there's just higher wait times for the people who who aren't paying.
B: Maybe.
C: Kind of like toll highways. B: That's right. Yeah, that's a good analogy, actually. Yeah, I think there would be an imperative on the part of the government to make sure the public system Is more than just adequate. It would have to actually be good and well funded. I slightly agree with this. C: I disagree only because it says to "higher standards of medical care." B: Oh, good point.
C: Yeah, I don't think you should be able to pay for doctors that have more qualifications or like a better-operating hospital just because you can pay more. That's not what I think this hybrid system should really be about. It's more like if you want to pay more to have a fancier-looking clinic or like have a nurse draw your blood in a better private room: maybe. But that's not a higher standard of medical care.
B: Gotcha. Okay. Oh, that's very ...
C: Gotcha. Got 'em.
B: Very Canadian of you. Here's another one: "Governments should penalise businesses that mislead the public." B: Seems like an obvious strongly agree from like a false advertising, unethical bus--- Like there has to be some regulation of false business practices, right C: I agree. But also I guess I'm thinking like "Well, who's lobbying the governments and are they going to be influenced?" Right?
B: Yeah.
C: Because it can be abused. Everything can be abused, Ben. That's what I'm gathering.
B: Who do you trust more? Mark Zuckerberg or
C: Or the government.
B: The President? Okay. C: Or our employer? B: "A genuine free market requires restrictions on the ability of predator multinationals to create monopolies." C: Wha?
B: I strongly agree with this. And I think we're having some interesting conversations right now about whether or not some of the big tech companies like Google and Facebook are technically monopolies Does a free market ... Is there the ability for different companies to compete in a free market if you have a company that owns so much of the market that they can just sort of squash all the competition? C: Oh, that's like what happened with like Rogers and Bell and the telecommunication providers recently. B: Well, this has ... Yeah, so that's ... So a good example in Canada is that there aren't many companies you can choose from when it comes to getting your TV and cable or your cell phone plan. And as a result, Canada has some of the most expensive cell phone plans in the developed world. And it's kind of shocking and a lot of Canadians just ... consumers just don't have the choice. So that is, yeah, one of the implications of a monopoly in an industry. C: So, okay, I would strongly agree. I like it when there's a real application, that we can point to
(B: Well, we just picked a very specif---) and be like, "Okay, now I understand. It makes sense." Rather just some abstract sentence.
B: Okay. "Abortion, when the woman’s life is not threatened, should always be illegal." B: Gonna have to give a big nope to that one.
C: A big nope from me, too.
B: Big nope. Big oof, big nope. C: That' a big oof. Close the window. Shut down. B: "All authority should be questioned." "All authority," Cristine. C: I love questioning authority.
B: You do, yeah? C: I agree.
B: Do you?
C: Yeah. You've got to keep them in check.
B: I mean, you can't go through your life questioning everything, so I'm going to slightly disagree.
C: What? You're a ... you're a pawn. You're a sheep.
B: I'm a simp.
C: Baaaaa! B: "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth."
C: Oh, god. B: What's your visceral reaction? You've talked about that expression before in the podcast and how much you hate it, right? C: Yeah, but I was using it in the context of criminal justice and we can't just like murder someone because they murdered someone. Like that ... That's not going to work.
B: I mean, people ... There's the death penalty. It exists. People do think that. C: Yeah, but it's fading out and not productive for our future.
B: So you strongly disagree with this.
C: Yeah.
B: Okay.
C: I don't like this logic. I don't think it's very humanitarian.
B: I think it's usually not the right way to look at things, but i'm only going to moderately disagree, because I think sometimes you do just have to look at things that way.
C: You can't just look at things in a simple mathematical way all the time, unless it's actually math. Then you can. But human relations?
(B: Like this is actually a good ...) B: This is a good example, though, maybe, of like where I felt like I didn't entirely fit in with like the other sort of crim students in our program, because I think the prevailing logic on everyone was it's ... Everything is about like what works: what punishment works and makes sense? And that usually just means what works in terms of rehabilitating an offender, right? But I think at the end of the day, society ... There's some responsibility for the justice system to fairly and adequately reflect society's values. So even if it's not in anyone's long-term public safety interest to lock someone away, if someone did something very terrible by our society's standards I think there should be a severity of punishment that just corresponds to how wrong we want to say that is and just have that sort of symbolic effect, even if it doesn't work from the perspective of rehabilitation. C: And I can understand that. I just think when in the past like even as a T.A. and I've noticed students make that argument, they're often talking about such a tiny amount of cases and they're trying to use that as a more general logic of like "This is why the justice system should be different. Because it's not about things. It's not about rehabilitation. It's about punishing them." But the people they want to punish, if we were to do it on a case-study basis, would be like the 0.1% of people in prison right now, for example. Like we're really not talking about most people.
B: I don't know if it's that small. I hear what you're saying. Like there are a lot of people incarcerated for property crimes or drug offenses.
C: You want to go burn down their houses? Like, no. B: And that's crazy. And I think, yeah, I would agree with you that that's a problem. But, yeah, we have to ... we can't ... Our theory of political or criminal justice and punishment can't ignore the fact that there are violent criminals who do terrible. things to children C: But there was absolutely people in my class---and i'll just say this because it stuck out to me so well--- who asked the same thing that you did: like, "Well, why don't we just punish them? Why not eye for an eye? Like if they killed someone, we should kill them." And so my prof so eloquently put ... There's a whole other speech, but the basis was "What do you want our society to look like?" B: Game of thrones. Public hangings? I don't know.
C: I think most people, after reflecting on that, decided that they didn't want society to look like that, you know. B: Look like what, though? Like child molesters being locked away for the rest of their life?
(C: To look like what would happen if we actually ...) B: I mean, what are we really talking about here?
C: No, but the punishment is basically giving them the same punishment that they gave to other people. B: Yeah.
C: Think about doing that. B: Yeah. Oh, yeah, that is a sort of dystopian nightmare scenario.
C: And is that the soc--- And who's going to carry out these punishments? B: I'm just thinking like there are crimes you can commit that really deprive people from the enjoyment of their life for the rest of their lives. Even though like maybe you didn't kill them, you could do some--- You can victimize people in a way where they will never be the same.
C: And you can deprive those people in prison for the rest of their life by depriving them of their freedom. B: Yeah. But I ...
C: You don't have to kill them. B: But I think most people on your end of the political spectrum advocate for releasing them so that they can be ... You rehabilitate people so they can be effective members of society. C: Well, sure, except for the point zero whatever percent it is who are declared dangerous offenders who will reasonably never get out of prison.
B: I guess the subjective thing is
(C: That's different.)
B: you see it as that 0.1%, B: And I think some people see it as a bit of a broader spectrum.
(C: And other people think it's bigger.) C: But it's not: that's the thing. Like if you actually look at the data for who's in prison for committing the most heinous of crimes, it's actually a tiny fraction of people who are [unintelligible].
B: But that's because you're defining the most heinous of crimes in a very narrow way. C: Well, I guess if we're talking about like murdering someone or molesting children.
B: Yeah.
C: I don't think that's that narrow. Is that narrow?
B: Well, it's not 0.1%, I don't think. I don't know.
C: No, no, no. Most people ...
(B: I don't have the stats.) C: Okay, we won't get into this, but I just remember from my time working in corrections data, it's shockingly (at least in Canada, at least seven years ago) was not what you kind of think it is. B: Most people involved in the criminal justices are not there for those most heinous crimes you're thinking of.
C: It might be violent offenses, but most of those are not like murder or homicide.
B: That's true. Yeah, actually, you know what's shocking, too? Here's a random stat for you. I don't have the number in front of me, but there's a shocking number of people currently incarcerated who are literally just in remand awaiting trial. Right? So people who haven't been found guilty of anything. Just waiting to get a court date, because courts in Canada, and I think this is the case in the U.S. as well, are just so bogg-- There's so much of a backlog that just getting a court date ... There are people incarcerated just to be determined if they're guilty of anything.
C: Right. B: That's injustice in my mind.
C: That's not an eye for an eye.
B: No.
C: An eye for a foot.
B; Any eye for nothing. C: Yeah.
B: All right, moving on: "Taxpayers should not be expected to prop up any theatres or museums that cannot survive on a commercial basis." C: Interesting. Theatres or museums. So they're getting at like an arts and cultural ... B: Yeah, so I strongly disagree. I think that there is a lot of value in investing in artistic institutions. C: Hmm. Yeah.
B: It's been a while since I went to the symphony or even went to an art gallery, but I want to live in a society where those things are preserved and propped up even if people aren't willing to pay for them C: Yeah, okay. B: Within reason. C: Agree, but strongly disagree.
B: Okay. "Schools should not make classroom attendance compulsory." Ooh. I mean, at any age? C: Yeah.
B: We currently live in a ... I mean, in Canada, anyway, I think ... When are you allowed to legally drop out of high school?
C: Sixteen. B: Is it sixteen?
C: Yeah. In Ontario, anyways, I think. I looked it up once. I don't know why.
B: Were you thinking about considering it, Cristine? C: I don't like the spirit of this, because then it kind of throws to the parent and the type of parent who says "Yeah, don't worry about going to school," if there is no government authority saying "No, you got to go to school" and the parent says "Don't worry about it," then I worry for that kid. B: Yeah, I guess it's a sad reality that you sort of need to make school attendance compulsory, because there are enough kids that would fall through the cracks if you didn't, right?
C: And enough parents that would let them. B: Yeah, but that ...
C: So I worry for that and it's not because I think the government should tell kids what to do; it's because I'm thinking of what is going to be the best for that child in their future. And when they're older, they can make their own decisions. So this isn't school forever, this is just as you're growing up. I do think it's important.
B: So we both strongly disagree. C: Yes, strongly disagree.
B: Yeah.
C: I don't like the way these are phrased. B: I don't like these double negatives. "All people have their rights, but it is better for all of us that different sorts of people should keep to their own kind." Both: Oooooh. B: All right, that's a pretty easy one.
C: Strongly disagree. B: We're doing a lot of disagreeing here. C: Well, give me something I like. B: All right: "Good parents sometimes have to spank their children." Uh-oh. Cristine, were you ever spanked as a child?
C: Yeah. B: I think I was once. I think we grew up at a time where it was just sort of on its way out. The perception that spanking was a terrible thing, right?
C: Yeah, and I would strongly disagree. In this era.
B: Yeah, me, too.
C: Although I'm not a parent, so I can't say how difficult it is or how much of value would be. But from what I understand and the impacts it has on children just from reading journal articles, I strongly disagree. B: Yeah, totally. It really ... It is not necessary to discipline children in that way.
C: Um-hmm.
B: Yeah. "It's natural for children to keep some secrets from their parents."
C: Strongly disagree. I mean agree, sorry!
B: It's very nat--
B: Yeah you agree C: I agree; I agree; I agree. Help, help! B: We just got so used to disagreeing.
C: Disagreeing, yeah. B: Yeah, this is ... I really wonder who would strongly disagree with this question. Like you'd have to be pretty ...
C: A parent who's really controlling.
B: You'd have to be like super-authoritarian parental style, right? C: Well, I know some ...
B: To not let your kid have any secrets.
C: I've heard of some parents who have like taken their kid's phone away and their kid is sixteen. I really don't like that and I think their kid probably doesn't like that either.
B: Yes, and that kid's probably going to remember that.
C: They should be able to keep secrets.
B: Yeah. All right, next one: "Possessing marijuana for personal use should not be a criminal offence."
C: Guess what? It isn't anymore.
B: It isn't here. Both: It's not a problem anymore
C: in Canada. Because it was legalized, what? It was October 17th, on my birthday.
B: That's right.
C: Was it two years ago? I can't remember.
B: It was a celebration. We're not really ... We don't ... You know ,,, Actually, we don't need to go there. I've no problems with it, but ... C: Yeah, I have zero issues with it. And I really don't think it should be a criminal offense and it is no longer in Canada. So. B: So strongly agree. Next one: "The prime function of schooling should be to equip the future generation to find jobs." B: I kind of
C: Yeah.
B: I think that's important, but I kind of disagree because I think it's important that you learn things in school that aren't just the most practical
C: Yeah.
B: things you might necessarily need for a job.
C: You want to build your mind up. That isn't just like for one particular job.
B: Yeah, you should be reading books and learning math you'll never use again just because it makes you a better person.
C: But it's also important to have some element of school that does help you prepare for a job in the future. So I don't want people to misinterpret this as us saying that doesn't matter. Because I think it does and maybe there should be a little bit more of it. Like co-op programs are great for that.
B: I agree. C: And maybe even something more at the high-school level that would help you figure out what you want to do. B: And that was actually a huge frustration of mine in the shift from high school to university was there was so little emphasis placed on ... Like when it came to talking to a guidance counselor or if you, you know, were talking to teachers about university programs, it always seemed like so little of the emphasis was on the ultimate destination of a career. And like there should be stats or resources available to you to know like "If I'm signing up for this degree in university, these are the sort of career paths and options that are open up to me and to what extent my society, the country I live in, is there a job market for that." Right? C: There is some of that, because I've seen it and I remember being shown this in first-year crime: like the types of jobs that you could get with this program, and then the types of income ranges you can expect. The problem is when you're signing up for these all of that just seems so far away and you're still kind of lost, because you don't know if you want to be a probation officer or a policy analys. Like you don't really know what those are. You're just seeing the titles. And you have no real understanding of that until maybe you do a co-op or some real work in that field of study. So it exists. Maybe it's not that easily available. I know Stat Can has some stuff on this in terms of like economic outcomes based on your graduating degree
B: Your degree program. C: and then what you go on. There is some but. B: Okay. So where do we fall on this, Cristine? Do you want to agree slightly just because you think it is an important function? C: I'm disagreeing, because I don't think it should be the prime function.
B: Got it. C: It should be one of the functions, but not the primary focus.
B: Got it. All right. "People with serious inheritable disabilities should not be allowed to reproduce."
C: What is this? Eugenics?
B: You shouldn't laugh at this: people are going to get offended. C: No, I'm laughing at how crazy.
B: It's absurd.
C: Yeah. B: Yeah, so I guess we both strongly disagree And that's like ... That's a really ethical thorny issue for the person involved, right?
C: Yeah. B: Like that must be a really hard decision to make. If you know you have something that's inheritable that's like a debilitating, serious thing and you ... I can't imagine what sort of ethical consideration that is like having as a parent, right? C: Yeah. No, for sure. It's a tough spot to be in and I don't think other people can speak *for* those people. B: No.
C: So that's why I strongly disagree.
B: Exactly. "The most important thing for children to learn is to accept discipline." C: This sounds like it was written by a parent who likes to spank. B: Strongly disagree. There you go. And ... "There are no savage and civilised peoples; there are only different cultures." I don't want to put my foot in my mouth here. Like I think we .. The early ... The question early on about like different races of people is obviously absurd and important to agree with the question framed that way. But when the question is framed around ... Basically this question, this proposition is about cultural relativiswm. Do you think some cultures are better than others or are they all just like different and we have to have appreciation of their difference? Do you have a gut reaction to that, Cristine?
C: My gut is to think of different groups of people as cultures rather than one is, you know, more savage than another. I don't want to get myself in trouble here. I think as a human race we can have some sort of--maybe not objective--but I think we should, as people, we should have some sort of ethical standard that could be applied to different cultures, for example, right? So just to pick a really extreme example o you don't think I'm a terrible person: If there was a culture that thought all gay people were evil and should be killed and women are worth less than men. I don't think we just have to accept that that is just a different culture. I think we should, as people who have some sort of subjective or hopefully objective standards of what an ethical society looks like, should be able to denounce a culture that has those sorts of values or does cause sort of pain and suffering and human misery in that way.
C: But I didn't say that, you know, certain cultures are or aren't better than another. Llike we could still denounce certain cultures for their practices if they violate human rights B: Okay. I guess maybe it says something about me that that's the first place my head went, but just if I'm going to disagree with the proposition I want to make it clear that that's where my head's going. Not that I actually think there are the savages over here and the civilized people over here,
C: Yeah.
B: because that's not what the world really looks like. But I just think, you know, In sociology/humanity departments I think you meet a lot of people who just have a very ... who believe in cultural relativism and think there is no ethical standard by which you can judge different cultures. And I do reject that. Remember, like we brought up arranged marriages on a podcast a few weeks ago.
C: Yeah. B: And I said I thought that was a bad practice. And I got a few comments saying "You're just some white guy; You're not allowed to judge some other culture's custom." And I just think that's a really stupid way of looking at the world. I think no matter what culture you're in you can judge---Like there is a responsible way of doing it and there is a fair way of doing it--- but you can judge another culture's practices if it is violating some obvious moral code, I think.
C: Yeah. B: Anyway, this is thorny territory. Maybe we should move on a little bit.
C: We're going to have another spicy comment section. B:Yeah.
C: Simply Politicological.
B: Moving on. "Those who are able to work, and refuse the opportunity, should not expect society’s support." C: I know where I'm leaning, but I also know what's wrong with why I'm leaning that way
B: Okay. C: So my social desirability cues are telling me not to respond the way that I want to, because we are doing this in in front of a lot of people. B: Yeah, actually, that's true.
C: Yeah, so that's ...
B: I feel like we're being very honest. We've probably said something really stupid already. I probably have.
C: As someone who is very determined and motivated to work, one thing I really don't respect is people who don't put in any work, but expect everything. I don't like that type of person in principle. If you can't do work because you are unable to, because of your life circumstances, that's completely different. But I'm ... That ... This question is not asking about that.
B: But I guess I appreciate you saying that, because I really want to reject the idea that like people on welfare or people who are reliant on government support, I really reject the idea that most of them are people who could be working but are just choosing not to.
C: Right. B: I think that's sort of a boogeyman, you know, you hear from the right wing.
C: No, you're usually on it because you have no choice and you have to be, you know. No one really says "Yeah, this will be fun." But I think I agree with you if we take the proposition for what it is: People who can work who are just refusing it for no good reason.
C: They should expect the support from the rest of us.
B: I kind of agree.
C: So I'll strongly agree.
B: Strongly agree. Okay.
C: Because that's just my personality type. You want good shit? You better put in good shit.
B: Even though we're both rejecting this and, you know what?, even to some degree like I like the idea of a universal basic income. Andrew Yang: shout out. And I think one of the main issues with getting some widespread support for that idea would come from this issue in this question. C: But isn't it ... It's such a small, minor universal basic income that that argument doesn't really work anymore. It's just like so you can eat B: That's why it's important to keep the amount ... Like let's say you give people $1000 a month There probably are a tiny number of people who would be happy to take that money and just sit around on their couch playing video games all day, and they would have no drive to do anything. But then there's also ...
B: Most people don't actually ... Most people don't work that way.
C: Right. B: Most people are driven to do things, need to have some purpose to get out of bed, C: Yeah.
B: and maybe it's ... maybe they can't work for a while, or maybe they have some artistic thing that's not going to bring money, but I think people are sort of driven to do things. C: I like *those* people.
B: I like to think that.
C: Shout out to my people. All right, next question. All right. "When you are troubled, it’s better not to think about it, but to keep busy with more cheerful things." C: This is a personality quiz. B: Kind of.
C: Strongly disagree.
B: I disagree. Cristine strongly disagrees.
C: Well, you should think about it and fix it. Here's one: "First-generation immigrants can never be fully integrated within their new country."
C: think this was written by a grandparent. B: All right, that's a strongly disagree.
(C: Strongly disagree.) B: "What’s good for the most successful corporations is always, ultimately, good for all of us."
C: Jeff Bezos knows what's best for us, Ben! B: I'm going to strongly disagree on that one.
(C: Strongly disagree.) And last one on this page: "No broadcasting institution, however independent its content, should receive public funding." C: I disagree.
B: I strongly disagree with this one.
C: I disagree.
B: Just disagree. I like the ... I like having a public broadcaster.
C: Yeah, me, too.
B: Yeah. All right. Should try to get through the next ones more quickly here. These are on how you see the wider society. "Our civil liberties are being excessively curbed in the name of counter-terrorism." I'm trying not to look through this in an American lens.
C: This might have been relevant, yeah, at a different time.
B: I'm going to agree slightly just because I think it was worrying that in the post 9-11 climate this was definitely a concern and we saw some very real abuses of civil liberties in the name of counter-terrorism. C: I'm going to disagree in my current context. B: Okay. Yeah, I guess it's "excessively."
C: . Yeah, it's kind of how you look at it, too Okay. "A significant advantage of a one-party state is that it avoids all the arguments that delay progress in a democratic political system." My gut is to strongly disagree, even though I do see there's some logic in the question, but I just ... Yeah, I just can't get on board with that thinking.
C: Yeah, I disagree because that there's no room to make anything better.
B: Yeah. "Although the electronic age makes official surveillance easier, only wrongdoers need to be worried." C: What's an electronic age? What?
B: So ...
C: Oh, sorry, like just living in an era of hacking.
B: surveillance. Surveillance is so easy The government can probably listen in and see everything you're doing on your phone. And some people say "Don't worry about it. You only have something to worry about if you're doing something wrong." B: I sort of reject that.
C: I reject that, too, because it can be abused. B: But I'm not going to strongly disagree, because I think there is a sort of
C: Right.
B: watchman function a government should have to some degree. C: I simply disagree.
B: Okay. "The death penalty should be an option for the most serious crimes."
C: I strongly disagree. B: I know you do. And you know what? I do as well, but more for ... Not for moral reasons as much as just pragmatic C: It costs more to kill someone.
B: It's just not an effective way: it costs more money; it's complicated;
C: More appeals.
B: if you get it wrong it's even more abhorrent C: More fucked up.
B: Yeah. C: Also, if someone did something so bad, wouldn't you rather them suffer for thirty years in a cell? Just killing them is giving them the easy way out. So I feel like people who are more emotionally driven by the decision on whether or not it's good can think about it that way and then maybe say, "Yeah, let him rot in prison." So that's also the other argument. Not that that is what drives me, but I think that that's what I've heard other people accept.
B: Interesting. All right. "In a civilised society, one must always have people above to be obeyed and people below to be commanded." C: Okay, god. B: Disagree. C: I disagree but not strongly, because you do need some structure somehow. Right? But you know what I mean? I just don't like the way it was phrased. That you need to be obeyed and commanded like for some ... B: It's the language is throwing me off there.
C: The language is bad. B: Even if you do agree that in some sort of hierarchical system.
C: Right.
|B: Yeah. "Abstract art that doesn’t represent anything shouldn’t be considered art at all." C: Disagree. B: Okay.
C: Strongly disagree.
B: You strongly disagree.
C: [unintelligible] dumb questions. B: I'm only going to disagree a little bit, because I think there is a sort of, you know, absurd limit. If I'm someone who thinks we should be funding the arts, I don't want to fund some guy who's just throwing stripes of paint at a white board and then thinking it's some masterpiece.
C: What if it looks cool? What about my nail art? Abstract nail art.
B: Should put *that* in a museum.
C: My peelies. "In criminal justice, punishment should be more important than rehabilitation." C: I strongly disagree.
B: You strongly disagree. I mostly disagree, but I think there should be some balance.
C: You're emotionally driven. You just want revenge.
B: That's right. Sometimes.
C: That video game, "The Last of Us." Ben: Okay. "It is a waste of time to try to rehabilitate some criminals." "Waste of time" That's a weird way of framing it. C:I I'm going to agree. B: Interesting.
C: But that's because it is true that there are some people, like a tiny fraction, who just after multiple assessments and programming cannot be reasonably rehabilitated.
B: Interesting.
C: And that is just from my own knowledge and experience working in corrections [unintellgible]. B:Okay.
C: There are some people. It is *very* minor, though. Let me underscore that point.
B: Yeah, yeah.
C: It's not the majority. B: All right. "The business person and the manufacturer are more important than the writer and the artist." C: Awww. That's like saying like the people who mix my nail polish is more important than me! B: Then strongly disagree. Yeah, I disagree with this.
C: Yeah, I disagree. We're all equally important. B: Well, not equal necessarily.
C: Okay, but we're all important for different reasons.
B: This one depends a lot on context, right? "Mothers may have careers, but their first duty is to be homemakers." C: I would like to vomit; that's my response. B: All right.
C: Strongly disagree
B: Strongly disagree to that one.
C: Who wrote that? The patriarchy. B: With a capital "P." "Multinational companies are unethically exploiting the plant genetic resources of developing countries." C: What?
B: Huh. C: I have no idea what they're referring to.
B: I think this is sort of getting at ... C: Like in food when they try and make giant tomatoes?
(B: I don't know enough about this to really have an opinion.) B: Yeah, or like how like the flour you eat
C: Like over-refining stuff?
B: or, you know, the breads is super over-refined. or they have ways of messing with seeds so that they grow better.
(C: Just so they can have a better profit margin or make more.) C: Okay. Know I understand.
B: I don't really know what this does ... I'm too uninformed about this. C: Yeah. I was going to say the same thing. I have no idea to what extent they're unethically exploiting it. I mean, I might have read a headline or two, but I'm ... I don't know.
B: I think it's safe to assume there's some exploitation going on, so I'm just going to kind of agree with it. Just because that's my hunch. C: Yeah, even though I can't back it up with anything real. I guess I'll agree for the same reason. It ... I think it's happening, but I don't really know.
B: Someone who's really invested in this issue can tell us in the comments what we should have thought. "Making peace with the establishment is an important aspect of maturity."
C: What's the establishment? The government? B: Sure. It's however, whatever comes to mind. The nail polish industrial complex establishment.
C: The Holo Taco ... C: I mean, I don't like the spirit of this question, because it's saying you've just go to accept whatever the government tells .you B: Yeah. Yeah, I think I disagree with the spirit of the question.
C: Yeah, me too. B: But I do think just naturally a lot of people when they get older, I don't know if they make peace or come to accept it or just get tired of fighting against things.
C: They just give up. Yeah. B: It's kind of sad way of looking at it.
C: It's not maturity. That's certainly not maturity.
B: Or is it sort of maturity, in that like when you're a student It's very easy to have some very outlandish political views, but then as soon as you make money and are paying taxes maybe you do sort of change your opinion on things. I think that is the case with some people but ...
C: Yeah. B: I do reject the spirit of the question. All right, page five. "If you got through that okay, you'll find these propositions on religion a breeze."
C: Oh, my god. All right. "Astrology accurately explains many things." C: Should we do our birth chart? B: For your birthday maybe, yeah.
C: For my birthday yeah. Strongly disagree. Please don't hate me. B: There are people ... I don't ... There are people in our life
C: Don't get into it now. We'll save it. We'll save it.
B: We have friends who are into this.
C: Ben! B: I do not get it.
C: Ben, stop! Ben, we don't have time. Keep your political hat on.
B: "You cannot be moral without being religious." Bam, strongly disagree. Take that.
C: Man! Strongly disagree. B: Yeah, tell that to the Catholic priests, right? "Charity is better than social security as a means of helping the genuinely disadvantaged." C: I mean, they both can help.
B: Is it better? I think ... I'm going to reject this, just because I think this is the position some people take that you don't need a lot of government support for people,
C: If there's charity?
B: because in a free market you would just have charities helping. C: Right, but it doesn't work that way.
B: I don't think it really works that way.
C: Right, I see what they're getting at. So I'll disagree as well. B: Yeah. "Some people are naturally unlucky." B: I don't believe in luck.
C: I disagree. B: You've got to be good to be lucky and lucky to be good. "It is important that my child’s school instills religious values." C: Disagree.
B: Strongly disagree
(C: Strongly disagree.)
B: Strong disagree. There you go. That .was an easy one. That *was* a breeze. All right, and last page: a look at sex. C: Ooh, save the spiciest for last.
B: "Sex outside marriage is usually immoral."
C: Usu--- Why usually? B: Uh-oh.
C: Only if they decide.
B: Maybe we are the exception, because, you know we're ... we've been in an eight-year unmarried relationship, right? But those people swiping on tinder all day,
(C: But usually ...)
B: that's the real immoral problem.
C: Oh, my god. Strongly disagree.
B: Strongly disagree with this one. "A same sex couple in a stable, loving relationship should not be excluded from the possibility of child adoption."
C: Strongly agree.
B: I'd strongly agree with that. "Pornography, depicting consenting adults, should be legal for the adult population."
C: Isn't it? It's already legal. What are they saying?
B: Yeah. I do think there's a lot of ... The porn industry is ... This is a topic we just can't get into, but like there is a lot of darkness in that industry and sex work in general,
(C: Oh, yes. For sure.) so I don't want to just have this attitude that "Oh, porn is all just great."
C: Yeah. B: Right? I also think it has a really detrimental effect, particularly on how young men think of sexuality
C: and women
B: before they have any sort of real experiences.
C: And women who can't relate to the female bodies they see in porn. But that's another topic.
(B: But it should be legal.)
C: But yeah. B: "What goes on in a private bedroom between consenting adults is no business of the state."
B: Srongly agree.
C: Strongly agree unless they're committing non-consensual, murderous acts. B: And "No one can feel naturally homosexual." I don't even know what that means. But I'm pretty sure I strongly disagree.
C: Yeah. B: "These days openness about sex has gone too far." C: WAP, WAP, WAP. That's what this question is for. They wrote this before the song came out.
B: So my issue with WAP, though, wasn't about being open about sexuality, because I think that's great. So I strongly disagree.
C: Yeah.
B: And I think you do, too.
C: Yes. I do, yeah.. B: My issue was i was questioning whether songs like that are empowering to women when they still are positioning women as powered by their ability to use their sex to get things from men.
C: Or to use men, yeah. .
B: Yeah.
C: Yeah. I understand. B: Anyway. That was it. Now let's see where you stand.
C: Or sit.
B: Or sit. All right. About the Political Compass. So kind of like I explained at the beginning, it puts you on two axes. One is left to right, but they're suggesting it's mostly an economic dimension But the reason that it's putting you in a quadrant is that they think the social dimension is also important in politics so ...
C:Yeah, yeah, yeah. What are the results? B: "That’s the one that the mere left-right scale doesn’t adequately address. So we’ve added one, ranging in positions from extreme authoritarian to extreme libertarian." So if we scroll down. Oh, I got a little certificate; where does it put me? Okay. i'm economic left and I'm pretty far towards libertarian. Interesting. And Cristine
Both: is almost exactly the same. B: Maybe that's why we'd get along.
C: I would have thought you would have been more economic right. B: I thought so as well. So I kind of surprised myself.
C: But there almost wasn't enough questions to get at that. B: I think I answered a bunch of questions very strongly, like you, about how companies need regulation and you can't just
(C: Oh, that's why.) let unregulated markets fly, right?
C: But there wasn't enough about like conservative fiscal responsibility and that kind of stuff. B: Yeah, I am surprised to see myself so far to left. I mean, our hunch at the beginning was that we think we lean to the left. So just to someone listening, we're in the bottom left corner, basically in the middle, so .. we're C: in the middle of the quadrant.
(B: of that bottom left quadrant.) B: Right? So we're, you know, almost smack dab in the middle of the the left side of the spectrum and we're halfway down towards libertarian past the center. I guess one important point to note here is this political compass isn't a reflection of left right in a more conventional or common sense of the meaning, in terms of like political parties in America or Canada even. Like does it help you to find the center? Does it give us an example of people? I think I found ... Yeah, here. So it gives you an example of where some people fall, right? C: Where Hitler is. at the top B: So Hitler's a fascist who's only slightly on the right side of the economic spectrum. Whereas Stalin was an authoritarian dictator on the left side. C: So we're close to Gandhi.
B: We are close to Gandh--- found another page that put more people on there. So who are we actually close to? So like here's an example. They have Bernie Sanders, who's about halfway in the left, kind of like we are, but he's actually less libertarian than us. He's more authoritarian than us C: So we're the closest to Nelson Mandela on this chart. B: That's pretty good company to keep, I think. Like we're not too close to Marxism, that's way on the left.
C: How is Obama all the way up there, like kind of at the opposite? B: That's very interesting, because ... So here's what I think ...
C: Did he really take this test or did someone just kind of plot him on there? B: I think they're trying to plot these people on here, but I think one of the premise of ... one of the arguments of the people who put this test together is that they sort of see that there isn't a lot of distinction between major political parties in the U.S. in terms of where they fall on this compass, right? So Bush: yeah, he is farther to the right and a little more authoritarian. But if we're looking at this compass as an attempt to place you on like a political-theory spectrum that isn't Americanized or American-centric, Obama is actually slightly to the right of center in a way.
C: So basically all successful--by successful I mean like actually got the presidency-- in the States are all in that upper right box.
B: Upper right corner. For sure , like Reagan's way up there
(C: Just by nature of ...) them getting there and being able to maintain that position. So I guess that kind of makes sense in that sense, right? B: But like if Bernie Sanders had been a successful candidate, he actually would have been a guy on the left side of the aisle. And that's why people were so excited about Bernie Sanders, right? He finally represented, I think, a lot of left-leaning people's views that ... Obama seemed like a ... does seem like an incredibly decent person, but when he was campaigning on hope and change at the beginning before he was elected in his first term, I think people were hoping he would be something he ultimately wasn't. C: So you're a little surprised by your results, just because you thought you'd be a little more right. I thought I would be closer to center.
(C: When it comes to this economic stuf, right? Yeah.)
B: I think I was just left of center. I think I totally reject likee I'm ... I don't lean to the right at all when it comes to social issues, I want to say.
C: Yeah. B: But I felt like I'm a little bit ... I'm surprised I'm not closer to the authoritarian end of the spectrum a little bit, to some degree.
(C: Because of your ecomomic ...) B: Some of the answers I gave about foreign policy, things like that. Are you surprised about where you ended up? C: No, I'm exactly in the middle of the the green box.
B: Yeah, and you're good with that? We're libertarian left, then.
C: That makes sense to me.
B: Okay.
C: But also not the most extreme libertarian left. I think that's also important is I'm in the middle of that group. B: Yeah.
C: Bcause I am definitely someone who doesn't really go to the extremes of any mindset. I like to assess everything and consider it and I try and ... I take a conservative approach In my opinions about something. Not in conservativ--- conservativism, but just in whatever the school of thought it is I believe in. I don't go to the extremes of it. B: You're a pretty measured person.
(C: You know what I mean?)
B: Measured in all things. Yeah. Interesting. I guess that's okay. We probably said something really stupid on one of these questions. Should just preemptively apologize. But that's the way the cookie crumbles today, Cristine.
C: What is important, though, that regardless of where you are in whichever box, is that if you can and have the ability to vote In upcoming elections, like in the States, a big one is coming up. I don't know if you've heard, but I am the Simply political respondent on this episode to tell you to vote. B: Yeah, like at the beginning of this podcast, we sort of talked about how we don't think it's our responsibility or fair of us to tell you how you should feel about things, but I think we're comfortable telling you that, you know, in the interest of a democratic society functioning well, it's really a shame when people who can and especially young people don't vote, right? I actually lived in Australia for a few years when I was younger. You know what's interesting there is that it's actually illegal not to vote. I think they fine people for not voting, but I think just that threat works well enough that people just vote and I think they're given ... like given adequate time to actually get off work and vote and things like that. And I actually wonder if that is something we should embrace more in North. America. We don't have that here in Canada and I'm fairly certain that's not the case in the States and when you look at how many people actually vote in elections it's always really depressing, especially when you get an outcome that you're not happy with: when you think of like "Oh, like that guy got 50% of the vote, but he only got 50% of the vote of the 30% of people who actually voted. Right? That's always a real bummer.
C: I'm not opposed to the idea of making it a legal requirement to vote, but you can't impose that without, I think, two things: The first is you have to make it accessible and available and like reasonably possible to vote in a fair and safe way and not travel two hours or not make it hard to vote or maybe you have to open voting online if that makes sense for those people. And then the other reason is if someone goes to vote, they still need to be able to choose that they are not voting for any of the listed candidates. So you can choose to abstain to vote.
(B: [unintellgible][ spoil your ballot.) B: Yeah.
C: As long as you have that choice, because it is also your prerogative if you don't want to pick any of these people, but it is important, just from like a data perspective, to get that number of people who are saying "I abstain from voting." And you should be allowed to abstain as well, but not abstain just be like
B: Staying home. Eating Froot Loops.
C: staying home and not filling it out, because it is important to have that data, too. B: Recorded that, yeah, someone just rejected all the options.
(C: Because what if there's just a whole bunch of people abstaining,) maybe that can have some impact in the actual outcome of how they weigh the votes, for the popular vote. B: I'm not sure if Elections Canada reports on it; I think they did at least at one point. But they used to give the number of how many people were just deliberately spoiling their ballots.
C: And I think that's ... that says something.
B: It absolutely says something.
(C: if that number goes up,) C: that's important.
B: And I think you make a really good point about making it easy to vote. And that's why it is incredibly alarming when you have a political party actively discouraging people from voting and trying to make it harder to vote by mail. I'm not going to make some statement about you're a bad person for being one side of the political aisle or the other, but I think you just have to acknowledge to yourself that if you do lean in that direction to vote for someone who's trying to make it harder for people to participate in the political process is a really disgusting thing.
C: Yeah. B: Anyway. What's the voting age? Is it eighteen?
C: It's eighteen here, yeah. B: Yeah. You should vote! It's an exciting thing to vote for the first time.
C: Is it eighteen in the States, too? I have no idea.
B: I think it's eighteen, right?
C: But you can't drink until you're twenty-one? How does that work? B: You know what? There should be a limit on ... Like you should lose your ability to vote at a certain age.
C: [unintellgible] Well, you know, I'll tell you one thing. One of my grandmas shouldn't be allowed to vote anymore. So. B: You know what I mean? Like if you're like a few years away from death, should you really be voting on the future?
(C: If you're not going to be around? )
|C: Oh, my god, Ben. B: I don't know who gets to decide that age.
C: That's incredibly morbid, but from a very practical point of view, B: There's something to this, right?
C: There is something to think about.
B: Maybe if you're past the average life expectancy you should just not be able to vote.
C: What is what? I think that's like 86 for men, maybe.
B: Oh, it's not that high. It was like 70. C: Or maybe I'm thinking of women. It's much higher for women. B: It was like 72 for men.
C: Women can vote later for longer.
B: That's right. I'm okay with that. C: We'll take away the men's right to vote. How about that? When you hit 70, you're done. B: All right, deal. We could run a political campaign just on that idea. All right, everybody. Thanks for tuning in. Apologies to Dr. Mike. We were going to have him on today, but C: But instead I talked to him myself over zoom the other day.
B: That's right. What a sweetheart.
C: He was very kind. Also, I didn't want to turn this into like a YouTube collab, but I just want to thank him publicly, even though he's not expecting me to. We did speak about my medical conditions, what's going on in my face. And he was super helpful just telling me mostly what to ask my doctors and talk to my own team here.
B: That's awesome. I really appreciate that he was willing to do that just on a private basis without [unintellgible]
C: I didn't even have to pay. I said "How much for the session?" And he said "It's free. Don't worry about it."
B: Was he wearing a lab coat on the Skype call? C: No, he was wearing a shirt with a hashtag,
B: Okay. C: and I can't remember what it is now. B: That guy, he's great. I really appreciate it.
C: Yeah.
B: If you don't know who we're talking about, Dr. Mike runs a YouTube channel, but he's also a practicing GP.
C: He's a real doctor., but he has a YouTube channel about like medicine and you know tips that he makes accessible to the average person to listen to. B: And he makes really great educational content that's actually entertaining and ... C: Infotainment, kind of.
B: He's in a small club, I think, with you of people who have successful YouTube careers who have maintained pretty serious jobs as well, right? So there's kind of a parallel there. There aren't many of you who ...
C: We did talk about that for a little. About just like "Oh, it's so crazy this is the first time we're connecting," because it's hard to find other YouTubers who are of that nature and have so many subscribers or such a big following. Like it just doesn't happen. B: All right. We'll try to get you on another time, Dr. Mike.
C:Yeah.
B: All right. Thank you, everybody, for tuning in. You just got your reminder that it's Tuesday.
C: Taco Tuesday.
B: Don't forget to vote, if you can vote in your next election, whether it's federal, national, provincial, state, municipal. You know, just participate in your political process. How about that?
C: Yeah, even if it's your first time then it's a cool learning experience. B: That's right. Very cool. Super cool.
C: Yeah. B: All right, everybody. Thank you so much for tuning in.
C: And we'll see y'all later.
B: See y'all later.
Both: Bye!
