Sennebogen Has An Engine Knock Even Deutz Won't Fix

all right here we have an 825 sena bogan scrap handler with a date engine dates vf6 and ten thirteen ec now the dates it's kind of a rare beast where they like to do things a little different than everybody else have you've ever worked on an air-cooled Deutz tract or you'll understand that like the cylinders are individual and you got to shim the bottom of the cylinder so the valves don't hit the pistons or close enough i think it's between 29 and 32 styling the head and the piston any less than 29 it won't start anymore and it will not fire so getting into this cutting into this newer these oh those were the 80s of the 90's tractors this is mid 2000s and they're still kind of doing their own little thing where the injection system is individual injection pumps that run off a camshaft that fire mechanical injector still a local yard bought this as a pair from another company great looking machine just been painted new tires but when they got it it's got a little bit of a knock to it they used it for a little bit only put about ten hours on it the story is that the company that had it before heard the knock swore it was a mechanical knock they pulled the oil pan off and they checked all the bangs bearings looked okay fired it up it's still not so what they did was took the head off and took a look at all the sleeves sleeves looked okay putting her head gasket on still knocked and then what they did was each one of these little pumps here is an individual fuel pump for the injectors which are underneath the cover they replace the front of the front injector here or sorry the front pump Nach went away and then it's at for a while and as soon as they fired it up enough came back they had a Deutz technician come out because santa Boggan had a couple different engines they had caterpillars in it they had dices in it anyway they had a dirt stack come out and he said no it's fine don't worry about it might not be anything wrong with a knock but if you're trying to sell the machine then a knock is a good way to knock twenty thousand dollars off of the total sale price so we're gonna look into this what I did was I took the individual injector lines off and put a new injector line on it from a Cummins actually it fit five nine and ran it for 10 seconds measured how much fuel was coming out of each individual pump and all of them were basically the same without super accurate because it didn't start the same amount didn't start right away the same on each one now these pumps are shimmed underneath to change the timing on it I believe because it's on a cam so the higher off the cam you go the delays the timing what I'm gonna do is as soon as I did that to the number one the knock went away and so 100% without a doubt there's an issue with number one what I'm gonna do is take the top off and move number one injector to number six swap them and then do the same test and see if the knock follows the injector if it doesn't I'm gonna take the pump off and move the pump over and see if it follows the pump so hopefully that does it the problem what I think is it's not a mechanical pump it's kind of getting a runaround from the company before as to what they did I asked him to send me the bills as to the steps that they went through I believe they pulled the pan and I would hope that they did a bearing roll when they did it I believe they pulled the head off and I believe that they replaced this pump but I don't think they put new liners and pistons in it so I'm gonna go on that that hopefully it's a fuel knock what I'm thinking is the timings too soon and the fuel is actually igniting before the pistons at top dead center or the however much before and it's actually pounding down on the piston and that's the knock that we hear so we'll move that around and see what happens here we go so pretty straightforward rockers make sure that none of them are backed off more than any of the others that they're not loose but there's an injector going right to the pump pretty straightforward number six I wasn't paying to get that test and yeah yeah here we go this is the injector out of the number one I don't know if you can see that but it's it's really wet whereas the other one was completely dry so obviously it's a fueling issue I'm leaning more and more towards the fueling issue so we'll swap those injectors but I don't think it's the injectors I have a feeling that it is the pump is timed wrong but we'll swap these fire it up real quick see what happens and then move the pump or at least shim the pump so I still have a knock we'll take that number one line off sprayed it into a bottle and see if that makes a difference so move the injector around and it's still knocking on number one when I put my injector line on there filled up my bottle it's the knock went away so it's still number one I'm sure that this pump is too far advanced so take that off and see what kind of shims we find in there and probably have to add shims to delay the timing on it and that would be it here we go okay so this is basically your injector cam pushes on that and then that's what's that's your timing so it's shimming on the bottom that we have to adjust so to verify that it's not the plunge we're gonna move the plunger to number six number six to number one fire it up again see what it does and then start looking at the shims okay so on our Deitz engine here these washers here set the timing on when this injection pump how close it is to the camshaft and as the camshaft comes up it fires the injection injector so the thicker this shim the earlier the injector will fire because it's getting compressed earlier so now the company that this dotes was bought off of said that they replaced the pump and they replaced the injector washer the shim and the nock went away for a little bit and then it came right back again so me buying another washer is not going to do any different and it's also I'm just gonna get the same shim again I can't request a different size shim so what I've done is I've shaved five thousand and just measured it with my micrometer and by doing that I can delay the timing on number one so we'll see if that fixes it I took the shims out and just fired it up and it ran the knock wasn't there but those two cylinders probably weren't doing a whole lot cuz the time was so far delayed it was just white smoke coming out of the exhaust so I'll throw the pump back in again we'll throw the valve cover back on and we'll see if that 5,000 s-- we can always go more and if I mess up well I can always just buy a new injector washer so every these washes are extremely tricky to put on so I just put enough extensions on it that I can go down into the cup and then just drop the washer over top and let it settle at the bottom and then just pull your extensions out tried with a magnet but magnet always pulls it back out again gets kind of hairy okay so the five made a little bit of difference not as much as I'd like so we took it down 16,000 17,000 I coroner but that doesn't matter it's just a shim so we'll pull that pump out one more time and this time we're gonna get it makes me happy much so no real smoke coming out if I had delayed the timing too much it would smoke like crazy so this is where I stopped I made it better but I didn't make it perfect and basically I just disproved what the previous shops told us by delaying the timing enough and making that sound or do less work I was able to make that knock get quieter I do think that there's a mechanical issue and I do think that that engine needs to be disassembled and inspected properly but that is not my job right now as I do not have the okay for that it's now up to the owners to decide what they want to do with it but it is my job to make sure that it works good enough in the yard so one of the perks of fixing equipment is you get to run it and that is a huge perk for being a mechanic or building cars so this trying to do a review out of a minivan now I like the seven bogans because they're simple this is a 2007 has a dates engine in it putting out about a hundred and eighty seven horsepower and that's all you need to run this crane actually it's a pretty pretty slick system now I'm gonna try and talk and work at the same time I don't run these everyday so I might be a little bit jerking and I apologize for that but just picking up a baby right in any way you shouldn't bring babies through Johnson all I could do is [Music] this is awesome

Channel: DEBOSS GARAGE

Views: 318,496

Rating: 4.9347181 out of 5

Keywords: sennebogen, engine knocking fix, rod knock, engine noise, engine knocking, fuel knock, engine knock, diesel knock, diesel rod knock, diesel fuel knock, Senebogen knock, duutz knock, deutz fuel knock, deutz rod knock

Id: e1Ojp9Lg7vY

Length: 11min 32sec (692 seconds)

Published: Wed Aug 29 2018