-(AUDIENCE CHEERING, APPLAUDING)
-All right, welcome to Overtime. Here's our panel.
He's a contributing writer at<i> The Atlantic</i>
and producer of the documentary, <i>-Food, Inc. 2,</i> Eric Schlosser.
-(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING) He's a<i> New York Post</i> columnist and author of<i> The War
on the West,</i> Douglas Murray. And he's a<i> New York Times</i>
contributing writer, his new book is<i> The Age
of Grievance,</i> Frank Bruni. (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING) All right, guys.
Here are the questions, "What are the panel's thoughts
on a Virginia school board restoring confederate names..."
(CHUCKLES) Oh, yeah. I saw this today.
There schools there-- Two schools in Virginia
restoring, I think, the Stonewall Jackson
is getting his name back on the school.
Didn't see that coming. (AUDIENCE LAUGHING) "Is it a sign
of backlash to DEI?" Yeah, I mean it's just--
It's a backlash thing. It is. And always,
this country never knows where to stop in the middle.
(CLICKS TONGUE) It just never-- never can find-- It's like the thing that goes...
(IMITATES PENDULUM SOUND) -(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
-On the-- -People have on their desk.
-FRANK BRUNI: A pendulum? -(LAUGHS)
-Yeah, the-- Well, the... That-- that steel balls. -FRANK: Ah, okay.
-You know the steel balls. -Anyway.
-(AUDIENCE LAUGHING) -(LAUGHS)
-(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING) -FRANK: That's an incredible...
(INDISTINCT)
-I mean... -(LAUGHS)
-(BILL MAHER LAUGHING) So, what do you think about it,
panel? -(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
-(HESITATES) It's-- it's slightly dangerous terrain
but I can throw one thought out. (HESITATES) It's-- I looked
into this some years ago when the statue started coming
down in 2020 and there are some
places where I think there was, like,
very weird overreach. And I can understand some places
where some locals might have, like, got resentful about that. If you go to Monument Avenue in,
uh, Richmond, there are no monuments. It's just an avenue
with a lot of... -(BILL CHUCKLING)
-...like stone bases... -(BOTH LAUGH)
-...on which... -(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
-...on which you could-- you could put a statue
at some point, but there aren't. -(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
-And if you-- if you're into plinths,
it's a great place. -(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
-Just a lovely place. And in fact, the only statue
that is still there is, what's his name?
Uh, Arthur Ashe? -The tennis player. Yeah.
-BILL: Arthur Ashe? Yeah.
So, he has a big statue of him. It's the only one
that's still standing. And he's got a child kneeling
there with a book, and he's got
the tennis racket up. And unfortunately, it looks like
he's about to beat the child. -(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
-But... -(LAUGHS)
-DOUGLAS MURRAY: But it's... -(AUDIENCE LAUGHING, APPLAUDING)
-...just that I can... (LAUGHS) -FRANK: I'll jump in.
-DOUGLAS: So, I can not-- I-- My point is, I can understand
if I were a local, I might have got
a bit annoyed about this. -Yeah.
-ERIC SCHLOSSER: But-- But I think
it's worth remembering that the Confederacy
celebrated slave owning. -DOUGLAS: Hmm.
-And these statues weren't built -during the Confederacy.
-DOUGLAS: Sure. They were built
when the Jim Crow laws were being enforced, and segregation was really
being enforced. So, I think we need
to know our history, and honor our history but I can understand
how it would be tough to live in a town
that is celebrating people who really thought
that slavery was a great thing. BILL:
Well, everybody thought that, -by the way.
-(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING) -I mean, I agree, I...
-Yeah. -Now, first of all...
-(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING) We-- To re-put the statue up. -No, no that's-- Sure.
-I mean, that's crazy. -I mean it.
-But you can do what museums call,
"retain and explain." I mean, you say
we need to know our history. How are people gonna know
their history if there's no statues
representing anything that happened
except for one side. I mean, in most countries -like France for instance.
-ERIC: Well, because-- France said in 2020,
the president himself said, "We will take down no statues, we need to know all
of our history." -And he-- That's to explain it.
-ERIC: In the Soviet Union should they have kept
the statues -of Marx and Lenin up...
-DOUGLAS: Well, actually-- -...after...
-Well, of course... -Yes. And they did. They did.
-...Russia became a Republic. I've been to them. There are-- Lots of the former
Soviet republics put all the statues
in a park for instance where you could then go
to look at them. -And that's one way. Yeah.
-A museum would be great. -BILL: Right, it is.
-FRANK: But a lot of the statues we're talking about
are not explanations, they're venerations... -Sure. Yeah.
-...they're celebrations. -BILL: Exactly.
-And if they're celebrating as you just spoke so eloquently
too, if they're celebrating things like slavery
in the Confederacy then I think it's worth
having a conversation about -whether they belong or not.
-And-- and-- -(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
-(CLEARS THROAT) And they were traitors. -(LAUGHS)
-ERIC: And they were traitors. They were traitors. -They were...
-This was a war against a secessionist. DOUGLAS: Yeah, but people
also have to-- I mean, look,
there are obviously cases
like that where, like, Stonewall Jackson, I don't think you
particularly need to have a school named after, but you know, don't forget
in 2020 this rampage went all the way through
to any High School named after Thomas Jefferson. -Well that's...
So there's a logic.
-So, yeah. Right. -It can get out of hand, but...
-And it got out of hand -very fast.
-I hope. You were talking
about what might happen with a Trump administration. I hope that we're not gonna have
in Monument Valley of the January 6th
insurrectionists and what was the guy
with the horns, you know. -(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
-Statues of those Rebels. -BILL: I could see it.
-But he will-- he will -get them out of jail.
-BILL: Absolutely. Absolutely. He will pardon them. BILL: But, I mean,
again on the slavery thing don't put up statues of traitors
who supported slavery, -but also teach kids the truth.
-FRANK: Yeah. Slavery was a horrible thing
that everybody in the world did including people of color
in other parts of the world. It's all through the Bible,
every civilization did it. They didn't even think
it was wrong. There's no laws against it
in the Bible. There's a lot of laws about it. And nobody ever goes, "Oh, maybe
we should just not do it." -Never crossed their mind.
-FRANK: Right. Again, teach the whole story -would be my thing. Okay.
-DOUGLAS: Yeah,
absolutely of course. -(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
-(INDISTINCT) -Um...
-(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING) "Should cities employ
safe use sites to combat the drug epidemic
and help addicts? " Well, uh, Portland
just pulled back on that. -FRANK: Hmm.
-I think it was Portland or maybe, it was San Francisco
maybe, well-- They had that, you know "Let's give out free drugs,
see what happens." Um, I think it's a great idea
but I'm not an addict. -(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
-FRANK: Yeah. (CHUCKLES) You know, addicts, you know
to them, they were just like, -"Great, more drugs."
-ERIC: Yeah. I mean, it didn't seem to work. I just did a documentary
on the fentanyl crisis recently I went to some of these
safe use sites and there's so
many problems about it 'cause on the one hand
there's a very good, you know, idea, it's a compassionate idea
that you give users this facility where
they can shoot up with needles that are clean
and there's Narcan in case they overdose
and this brings them back round. And it's certainly, you know,
in that way it's understandable. The bit that's the problem
is like ten blocks around any safe use site
is covered with needles and people trying
to sell you fentanyl. So, you have to weigh them up. -BILL: Okay.
-Hmm. "How does our tiered economy,"
this is for you Frank... -FRANK: Mm.
-"...contribute, our tiered economy contribute
to people's sense of grievance?" Oh, yeah that's in your book. Yeah, no, I write
a lot about that in the book. I think one of the things
that's happened to us is our economy has become
such an engine of envy, right? Our service economy is tiered
in a fine grain way that it never was before. When I was a teenager
and I went to a rock concert I remember getting up at 3:00
in the morning and going
to the Hartford Civic Center, -that was called at the time.
-BILL: Who were you seeing? -I have to know.
-FRANK: Queen. -Queen!
-And I'll tell you, right, but here's the thing,
there were basically three sets of seats. There were three ticket prices
and if you wanted to sit, as I did, close to the stage,
I got a throw, what you did wasn't shell out
10,000 dollars or more as people do for one of the,
like, 250, 350 prices for a Taylor Swift ticket, you actually went
in a quasi-egalitarian way and you stood outside on line. Got into the eighth row, caught
Freddy Mercury's tambourine when he threw it out
at the end of the-- -of the show.
-Wow. -(AUDIENCE CHEERING)
-Whoo! -FRANK: Those were...
-(AUDIENCE LAUGHING) -ERIC: Have you still got it?
-(AUDIENCE CHEERING) -But what happens...
-Wow. No, I ended up losing it... I ended up losing it over time,
which is a terrible story. Suddenly,
it's<i> The Kelly Clarkson Show.</i> -(LAUGHS)
-(AUDIENCE LAUGHING) But you take-- but you take the Taylor Swift
concerts as an example, right? People are paying so many
different prices and then they are going
on their social media feeds and they're posting pictures
of how close to the stage they were,
sometimes it's a family of six. You're looking
at 10,000 dollars shelled out -for one evening
-BILL: Oh, sure. We are more aware of the people who live
on the echelon above us, the echelon above them,
the echelon above that. It is in our faces
in social media all the time, and I think it fills us
with envy and drives us apart. -BILL: I'm sure. Yes.
-It's part of our grievance
culture. (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING) Whenever I read about... the prices of these tickets
especially, Taylor Swift, Beyoncé also, I mean,
sure all the big acts. I'm just amazed.
I-- It makes me think I don't understand
the American economy at all. Makes me think,
"I'm glad I didn't go." -(LAUGHS)
-(AUDIENCE LAUGHING) -Well, that's... (LAUGHS)
-(AUDIENCE LAUGHING) That too, but that's so many
people can afford this. -FRANK: Hmm.
-And most of them are kids, or pretty young, right? I mean, it's teenagers, tweens.
I mean, I guess her fan base -goes all way up.
-Yeah, they're the ones you were talking about before
who are living in the basement -at their parents. (LAUGHS)
-BILL: Right. -So, you're saying it's...
-(AUDIENCE LAUGHING) FRANK:
That's how they have the money. That's how
they have the money, right. Yeah, my generation
ruined the world but they always take the money. -(FRANK LAUGHING)
-(AUDIENCE LAUGHING) I notice that. Uh, "How does--" No.
"Does the junk food," -this is for you, Eric.
-ERIC: Yeah. "Does the junk food
that Americans eat contribute to the decline
of the level of our intelligence
and empathy?" Oh, I guess it's saying,
does it, you know-- We know it affects the body,
does it affect the brain? Uh, I think that some of these
artificial sweeteners may turn out not to be good
for your brain, -but I think that, um...
-BILL: What do you mean "may"? Really? Is there any doubt -that aspartame is poison.
-Well, I-- I... (HESITATES) I have to-- I have to hedge
my answers because... -Well, I don't.
-...because... -(AUDIENCE LAUGHING, CHEERING)
-...I have very-- You can afford better lawyers, -I have to...
-(GUESTS LAUGHING) I'm constantly worried
about getting sued, but the evidence suggests
it affects the brain. But I really think
it's the mass culture that's affecting
people's thoughts more than it is the junk food. The junk food is just making
people really unhealthy -and shortening lifespans.
-BILL: All right, well let's go have a drink. -(GUESTS LAUGHING)
-Thank you, guys. -Thank you very much.
-(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
