Mormonism's Impossible Gospel - Getting Them Lost

good morning everyone how are you I wanted to mention one thing about but what rodney was saying i started off with witnessing two Jehovah's Witnesses that was my big deal and I've really come a long way because my my early witnessing methods were were where we would be in my little car and we would drive by a Kingdom Hall and I'd roll down the window and I'd say I'd yell Jesus is God as we drive by and he'll drive by witnessing so I've I've come a long way since then and I wanted to do something a little bit different today I have never done this before and my wife acts she just absolutely hates this now I am Manti man my wife hates this hat but this hat is how people identify me on the street I can't tell you how many times folks have come up and said I saw you last year or I talked to you three years ago and I found you because of the hat so so let me look it into the camera and say Becky I love you but you're going to have to deal with the hat all right I'm going to do the whole thing with the hat because I figure that if you're watching YouTube in your LDS and you've never been to the pageant we invite you to come on out whereas you can really tell we're a bunch of mean hypocritical hateful people right no okay well this is how you can find me I'll be wearing the hat unless my wife gets ahold of it so seriously if you're watching this on YouTube come to Manti we we would love to talk with you it does pull the white screen oh well then you're going to have to come to Manti to see the Hat that's how it works all right we're going to we're going to do the impossible gospel this morning how many of you have heard it before alright that's the majority of you how many of you have seen it on YouTube okay not as many how many of you have not no I mean heard the impossible gospel okay alright so we've got we've got a few chip has we do this every year the impossible gospel because the the technique is it's a very very powerful technique I did not come up with it myself I just named it basically what I did was I took resources from Bill McKeever Timothy Oliver Tim Martin some unnamed guy in the park who I've never seen before and a couple of other people who kind of showed us this approach and I put it together in a way that makes sense to me I made an outline out of it once once chip put it in this book it just kind of took off because we named it the impossible gospel so now regardless of what what you call it everybody seems to use the same name last year I did something way different what I usually do is I focus on you can't see my eyes should I take the hat off I gotta take that listen to my wife you know sometimes I hear the voice of God and he sounds a lot like Becky sometimes so well here's the Hat man anyway what we did last year was I focused a lot more on on the salvation part on getting the Mormon saved what I tell our team is before you can get the Mormon saved you got to get them lost because they believe that they're the true Christians they are more saved if you want to use that term than we are so you've really got to get them lost before you can get saved and for the past four or five years I've been teaching it with an emphasis on that and I kind of got convicted that you know what I don't spend as much time getting to the saved part so last year I really did that I kind of touched on the impossible gospel and I really focused on preaching the gospel to two Mormons so I I called that outlined the impossible gospel of Mormonism verses the sufficiency of Christ but I think what we're going to do is because what I'm doing this year is going to be a little bit different I'm really going to be focusing on the getting them lost part we're going to call this the impossible gospel getting them lost and then we're going to retitle the other one the impossible gospel getting them saved so we're kind of doing it backwards but that's just the way that it worked out alright I've got a bunch of new quotes and some some different stories to to tell to emphasize some of the points that I want to make but always the very first point that I want to make is how we are supposed to treat Mormons we're going to look at our attitude we're going to look at our approach and then we're going to get into the answer first thing I want you to do is open up your Bibles to Ephesians 4:15 Ephesians 4:15 says but speaking the truth in love may grow up into him in all things which is the head even Christ tells us what to do we are to speak the truth in love now sometimes I like to I like to change things a little bit so that you can understand what the Bible doesn't say for instance and I've done this before I've mentioned this to some former Mormon missionaries and I say well you know John 14:6 jesus said I'm the way the truth and the life and no man comes to the Father except through Joseph Smith is that what it says no that's not what it says it says except through me Jesus is speaking of himself so if you change a little bit you find out real quick what it does not say we're going to do that with Ephesians 4:15 this says we are to speak the truth in love all right we're going to change that what if it said speaking the truth is love what would that mean that would mean that I can speak the truth however I want to because I'm doing a loving thing by speaking the truth so I can even offend you purposefully I can say your jerk sinner come to Jesus that doesn't work does it no I have people get on our YouTube channel I do quick questions for JW's and quick questions for Mormons and and this actually this comment was made by a Jehovah's Witness and and he says we don't persecute anyone you jerk and then he proceeded to call me and I died I do t he's missing an eye I'm the I dot okay so you've got to be careful with your attitude you want to be loving when you speak with either Jehovah's Witness or a Mormon so this tells us two things it tells us to speak the truth that's what we do and then it tells us in love that's how we are supposed to do it we speak the truth in love it's two things now when we're in apologetics sometimes we have trouble balancing the two we're real good at speaking the truth but sometimes we're a little light on the love part so God inspires Paul to remind us that we are to speak the truth in love I believe personally that our attitude is way more important than this approach then any approach we use because if they don't understand that we really love them they're not going to hear us okay last week I had marched down to the the public bathrooms and I was I was coming back and I there was a group of Mormons in front of me and they are mocking us and I'm walking behind them and they didn't know this and they're saying oh yeah all these Christians out here they're all from a bunch of different denominations and and they argue amongst themselves but they sure unite when it comes to them being against us don't they you know we must be the true church because they're uniting against us and I said there's a reason for that they turn around and she said the lady says well what's the reason and I said because we love you guys and she says who are you I said I'm one of those Christians you were just talking about so we she she didn't want to talk but she was walking the same way I was well as well walk and talk at the same time so I I kept talking to her and and she kept responding and I I made sure that she understood we were out there because we love Mormons and she says well sometimes it doesn't come across that way I said well I'm sorry for that I'm sorry that there sometimes are folks who who can get a little heated can get a little excited I myself have been guilty of that so I'm sorry for that but but would you think that our conversation is a mean hateful conversation and she says no that's a what would you consider me an anti Mormon and she said no not at all I said well thank you I appreciate that if you go and listen to the majority of our conversations out there I'd be willing to bet that you would come to the same conclusion we're out here because we love you and we're not going to bite your head off so come on out and talk with us when I was glad that she understood that now there are and I want to see hands of those who are new here this year okay that is the vast majority of the people in this room you're new here I want to tell you something you have an advantage over those of us who have been here for years you know what that advantage is you're scared to death and since you're scared to death who are you going to rely on why because you're scared to death so you're not going to rely on yourself are you no but those of us who've been out of here for years you know I'm pretty good at this approach I'll cut this down God don't you just take the day off today I can handle this one we might actually be tempted to do that to walk in our own strength instead of walking by the spirit and listening to him and one of the things that I tell people because to be honest this approach is not easy sometimes it can be confusing it doesn't have to be done in order there's no magical thing to this approach listen to the Holy Spirit I don't even preach this this method the same way every time I talk to a Mormon sometimes I start with the end all mo the hammer sometimes I start in the middle it really depends on what I believe the Lord is me to do based on the person with whom I'm speaking so you've got to be conscious of the Holy Spirit you've got to really stay focused on what you believe he wants you to do so veterans out there we need to hit hit the hit our knees on the streets and make sure that we are listening to the Holy Spirit and not confident in our own ability all right now the approach we're going to get into the approach I like to ask a lot of questions as I mentioned earlier I've got my youtube channel evidence ministries we've got a couple of series they're called quick questions quick questions for JW's quick questions for Mormons and I like to shoot these little questions out there just to get people to think because Mormons and JW's when it comes to religious issues are not encouraged to think about deeper things and I can't tell you how many times I have had Mormons tell me that you know I've never thought of that before for instance here's a quick question I haven't posted this up on my series yet but I came up with this just the other day this this Mormon calls me an anti Mormon and I said well why do you think I'm an anti Mormon he says well cuz you're out here focusing on the LDS Church that makes you anti-mormon I said well my ministry we focus on JW is too he says well then that makes you an anti JW so well let me get this straight if you ever hear me say that that means you're in trouble because I'm setting you up okay so I said let me get this straight if I focus on one group that makes me anti that group right and he said exactly and I said well since the LDS Church focuses on everybody then doesn't that make them anti everybody and he mockingly said that's right we're into everybody and I said boy I sure wish I could get Monson to admit that he instantly changed his attitude I had to peel him off of Angela one of the one of the locals here because he was trying to interject and interrupt the conversation so once I peeled him off and I got him to that point he settled down and that's what these questions can do now questions are extreme we important because Jesus taught by asking questions he said who do men say that I am that way he's got our words affirming him he doesn't have to tell us now I learned this approach interestingly enough from an ex Jehovah's Witness who he says you know question marks are shaped like little hooks and with those hooks you can draw the answer right out of people's mouths because if they don't trust you as a source the chances are they're not going to believe what you say but if you can put it in the form of a question then they come up with the answer for instance if I tell you that you know the whole number between 3 & 5 is 4 2 plus 2 is 4 I don't have to tell you that I don't have to tell you that answer but if I put it in the form of a question now you're thinking it that becomes your answer you have personalized that you have to deal with that even if you don't verbalize the answer it's still up here and that's where I want to get it I want to get the question up here I want you thinking up here so asked a lot of questions we one of the ways we start our conversations is I've got a little track it's called the the pearl of great price it's named after after one of their scriptures and it doesn't say anything about Mormonism it's just a as I explained it it's a modern-day parable that talks about how to have forgiveness of sins so if a Mormon comes by I will tell them you know or I'll ask them would you like something to read before the pageant sometimes they'll say what is it then I'll explain it's a modern-day parable that talks about how to have forgiveness of sins and if if they stop and take it I kid you not I start counting in my head 1,001 1,002 1,003 if they're still standing there then I'll ask the question would you say that you have forgiveness of sin and depending on which answer you get you can go in any number of debt of directions one of the answers that I've been getting more recently than in the past is yes I believe I am forgiven and ask the question how did you get forgiven and they will say I was forgiven because I asked for it now I don't usually whip out the miracle of forgiveness at this point later on I can do that but that's not what Spencer W Kimball says in his book miracle of forgiveness on page three twenty four and three five twenty five you're not forgiven just for asking let me read this quote your heavenly Father has promised forgiveness upon total repentance and meeting all the requirements but that forgiveness is not granted merely for the asking there must be works many works and an all-out total surrender with great humility in a broken heart and contrite spirit it depends upon you whether or not you are forgiven and when it could be weeks it could be years it could be centuries before that happy day when you have a positive assurance that the Lord has forgiven you that depends upon your humility and sincerity your works your attitudes is asking for forgiveness going to going to get any Mormon forgiving not according to this so I kind of took that answer back away in my back pocket and I'll use it a little bit later one of the things that I like to do at this point is I will say well okay where does repentance fit into things if they've mentioned the word repentance or I'll say can I can I share a verse with you out of and they expect me to say the Bible right but then when I say out of the Book of Mormon a lot of times that shocks people out of the Book of Mormon you're going to teach me something out of the Book of Mormon I got to hear this and I've actually had people say that well yeah I'm really interested to see what you have to say out of the Book of Mormon so we usually start with Moroni chapter 10 and verse 32 and it states yay come unto Christ and be perfected in him and deny yourselves of all ungodliness and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness and love God with all your might mind and strength then is His grace sufficient for you that by his grace you may be perfect in Christ and if by the grace of God ye are no you are perfect in Christ you can no eyes deny the power of God I will always ask the question what does that mean remember I want to get them to tell me what their scriptures mean because I don't want to be accused of putting words in their mouth they have to tell me what it means and it's very easy to ask the leading questions to get them to see what it what it means most of the times they'll say oh well you know we got to be perfect in Christ what did you get out of it because they really don't know where I'm going with this and they a lot of times don't understand the verse so I'll ask them did you catch the if-then statement there and sometimes I'll have to go back and reread it like I did last night and they'll see that and I say well there's the if if you deny yourself of all ungodliness love God with all your might all your mind and all your strength then is His grace sufficient for you so there is a requirement for grace isn't there and they will say absolutely that that's right there is a requirement what are those requirements denying yourself of all when godliness loving God with all your might all your mind and all your spirit now I looked up the word all in the reformed Egyptian and you know what that word means that means all all your might mind and strength so I'll ask them when does this grace apply after after you meet the requirements for it most Mormons don't have a problem with that because it reminds them of another verse that we're going to look at here in a bit but I will ask them well what would that mean then if you had denied yourself of all ungodliness what would your life look like and a lot of times people will say well I think I'd be better well what do you mean by better if you denied yourself of all ungodliness and in other words there is no more ungodliness for you to 9 what would you be perfect and that's what it says to be perfected in Christ so they would be perfect so then I ask the question are you then saying that you need to be perfect before you get the grace that is sufficient they just indirectly told me that yes that is what they're saying so who is the focus on is the focus on God's grace or is the focus on me trying to get this grace that focus is on me now I had a group of Mormon teens a number of years ago and somebody said what's ungodliness and I said well you know what you know godliness he said yeah I said it's not that it's everything that's not godly and the kid was like oh yeah okay that's deep you know he understood that he understood that but I like to point out that their whole eternity focuses on the word if if they do that it's a conditional and it's based upon our performance now one of the objections that I commonly get is they'll tell me well you're trying to make it sound like I have to be perfect and my answer to that is I'm not saying that that's what you said based off of this passage plus it does say to be perfected in Christ and if you did deny yourself of all ungodliness you answer the question what would you be you'd be perfect so I'm not saying that that's what this passage says sometimes you can get kind of hung up on that so what's good to do at this point is go to another passage that backs up Moroni 1032 and I usually like to go to second Nephi 25 23 so if you've got your books of Mormon go ahead and open those two second Nephi 25 23 part of this sounds like it could be right out of the book of Romans and then the other part sounds like you could be out of Ephesians until you get to a certain comma as for we labor diligently to write to persuade our children and also our brethren to believe in Christ and to be reconciled to God for we know that it is by grace that we are saved comma after all we can do now that is that word all again remember we already did the the reformed Egyptian word study on this word right all after all you can do what is all you can do everything all you can do my wife likes to ask well how long did you pray this morning 5 or 10 minutes could you have prayed 6 or 11 I mean isn't there really always more that you can do couldn't you set the alarm for a half an hour early my answer would be no but there's always something more that you can do that being the case when does the grace apply after it's the same as Moroni 10:30 to after after you meet the requirements for it you only get grace after you earn it that doesn't sound right to christian ears does it it makes total sense to the Mormon here's why they define grace differently than we do grace is sometimes seen as a synonym for mercy or they see grace as an enabling power it's something that God gives you so that you can do what he commands you to do he gives you extra power extra strength to do this but you've got to earn that power so I often have people because we've looked at two verses in a row that mentioned the word after I've had people say you know you keep focusing on that word after and I had this one guy says you're you're introducing a time element here I said a time for the word after well of course there's a time element for the word after now think about this after before what are those denote time time I can picture my daughter who's now seven she thinks like I do we're in trouble okay I can picture her sitting at the table and me telling her you're not going to get your dessert until after you're done with your vegetables I can picture her saying oh dad you keep focusing on this word after you're inserting a time element here yes I am after eat your vegetables then then you get the dessert that's how it works the word after it's there for a reason at this point once they finally understand this you can move on to another another verse Alma 11:37 actually Alma chapter 11 is my absolute favorite chapter in all in the whole Book of Mormon because there are a number of really really good issues there that you can deal with and help the Mormon to understand a few things first 37 and I say unto you again that he cannot save them in their sins for I cannot deny his word and he had said that no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven therefore how can you be saved except you inherit the kingdom of heaven therefore you cannot be saved in your sins so I will ask the question what condition do you need to be in before he will save you sometimes Mormons don't understand this I'll say well you can't be in your sins right right so what's the opposite of n.o you've got to be out of your sins you've got to be out of your sins before he will save you now I've had many Mormons tell me but Keith if I can be out of my sins and what do I need Jesus for and I say you know that's a great question and if my church taught that I'd be asking more questions because that just doesn't make sense does it get out of my sins so that Jesus can save me at this point a lot of Mormons will talk about doing the best they can they'll say well we only need to do the best we can I don't have to totally deny myself of all ungodliness I don't have to totally do all that I can do and I certainly can't get out of all of my sins but as long as I'm doing my best have you guys ever heard the the little phrase if I do my best Jesus does the rest Mormons will say that very often as long as I do my best Jesus will do the rest well my wife and I have been meeting with a couple of Mormon missionaries recently and the way that we do things interestingly enough they haven't heard about our ministry which is really wild because we were we're blacklisted for a long time they haven't heard about our ministry so the way that we witness to people who don't know about our ministry is we really listen we really we really hear the things that they're saying and then what we kind of go off of this outline without opening up a book of Mormon or whatever because I don't want them to I don't want to tip them off that I know a lot more about Mormonism than they probably do so we just we sit back we take what they say we listen and and we were we were really getting hard or it was hard pressed to get the these these Mormon missionaries to understand this point and at this time Becky was leading most of our conversation and I was just really thinking and praying Lord they're not getting it and I can't you know I can't whip out Moroni 10:32 on them I just can't do that because you know they don't know what we know about Mormonism so we're asking these leading questions and it really wasn't getting anywhere and they kept focusing on we only need the best we only need to do the best we can and I said well we let me ask you a question how many of the Commandments do we have to keep all of them I said well how often do we have to keep them and said all the time I said so we've got to keep all the commandments all the time and they said that's right and I says well then I don't get it she says what are you talking about and I said well you're you're telling me that you only need to do the best that you can do right right and I said so then you really don't need to keep the commandments to you if they think they can't keep the commandments that they only need to do their best then what they're really saying is I don't have to keep the commandments you guys follow that point they understood that and it stopped right there and then they suddenly realize that oh there's a verse that talks about this first Nephi 3 7 let's flip there now first Nephi 3 7 is a scripture mastery verse and a lot of times when I'm talking with with teenagers especially I will I will bring I will bring up first Nephi 3 7 when I'll ask them do you know this verse it's a scripture mass reversal you should know it and if they don't know it then they haven't done all they can do but a lot of times they need a little bit of help with remembering the verse so I'll say and it came to pass that I Neifi and then they'll join in and then it almost becomes a racist to see which teenager can finish it first and they're kind of chanting when they do this that I knew if I said unto my father I will go and do the things which the LORD hath commanded for I know that the Lord giveth no Commandments unto the children of men save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commanded them what does that mean I always ask that question what does that mean that means according to them God is not going to give you a commandment that you can't keep now they're in trouble this whole outline focuses on those two points one the point made it in Moroni 10:30 - you've got to deny yourself of all ungodliness and then this one here first Nephi 37 that says what they can do it it's the Nike verse you can do it just do it how do they deal with this this is what it says you you can do it so I like to ask the question according to this verse is God going to give you a commandment that you can't keep their answer is no so then what is the best that you can do keep the commandments that is your best and I'll ask them that question have you ever kept a commandment yes I have that was your best you kept the commandment now sometimes they don't they don't quite get that so I'll come up with more questions and a question that I've been using recently is is there a possibility that you can do your best and still fail according to this first what is the answer no it's impossible for you to do your best and fail so then what's the obvious question are you really doing your best if you only have to do your best which is keeping the commandments then you're still under the same standard aren't you yes yes they are now one objection that they come up with this well this only applies to certain people in a certain context meaning that it can't apply to them the only problem is first Nephi says that God hasn't given a commandment unto the children of men I how many of you are a child of man okay that's some of you I don't know what the rest of you are okay that applies to all of us we're children of men so yes this this does apply to all of us another objection that I that I've heard is well that it can't be done if they're disagreeing with this verse then what are they saying that it's not true so I'll ask that question are you saying that the Book of Mormon is not true are you saying that because you think you can't measure up to a standard that God knows you can that you're going to deny his work in the Book of Mormon it is not true well now they don't want to say that but then they don't quite know what else say either because now they're really stuck because it says it says that they can do it so then usually they will say well yeah I can do this I can do that and that's where a shirt like this comes in into play for the sake of YouTube if you can't see this it says you know that'd be perfect thing how you doing with that if you can do this how are you doing with it how's it working out for you are you really keeping the commandments those are hard questions those are really hard questions so they usually follow up with well you know I'm not keeping them all now but I'm getting better and better every day so as long as I'm headed in the right direction I'll be okay because I'm improving while I'm in this life I'll continue to get better and better in fact when when we really hammered this issue with one of the missionaries that were meeting with now this one missionary she said this I'll never forget this she said you know it's not that I'm really guilty of these gross sins it's just that I make mistakes and you'll hear them use that word mistake all the time and I called her on it I said mistake what do you mean by that so she proceeded to give me the example of circling the wrong question on a multiple-choice question I said well if you get the wrong answer on a multiple-choice question would you call that a sin she said no and I said then why are you calling a sin a mistake does God look at it that way are we making mistakes or are we offending a holy and righteous God with our sin she backpedaled real quick because she understood that well yeah you're right Keith that I shouldn't use that word and and when Mormons out on the street use the word mistake call them on it what mistake it's not a mistake mistake is turning left instead of turning right a mistake is circling the wrong question on a multiple-choice quiz a sin is offending a holy and righteous God are we really willing to stand before the Lord and go oops I didn't mean that that'd be a lie yeah you did it's a sin it's different than a mistake so what she's doing what she was doing is she was trying to discount her sin by saying that it really isn't all that bad well the doctrine and covenants handles this objection go to a DNC one the NC one verse 31 and 32 for I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance nevertheless he that repents and does the commandments of the Lord shall be forgiven he can't look upon sin with the least degree of allowance so when I say that I'm making my mistakes what am i doing I'm trying to excuse those sins is God going to do that according to this is God going to excuse our sin because we only see it as a mistake so what I've said to them before is the sins that you are looking to excuse God is not he will not excuse those sins simply because we really can't stop can we not at all there's a there's another verse it's in it's in Alma 42 and this is verses 29 and 30 I'm only going to read part of this here this is Alma he's counseling his son Corey Anton who's been unfaithful with the missionary calling and he committed some serious sins and Alma says let your sins trouble you with that trouble which shall bring you under repentance do not endeavor to excuse yourself in the least point so now we've got we've got to we've got the dnc and we've got Alma telling us don't excuse your sin because God isn't God isn't going to excuse that sin Alma 42 verses 29 and 30 I was talking with the guy last night his name was Corey and he was an extremely honest Mormon 20 year old kid and he was getting this he was totally understanding this but then once once I kind of put the argument together then he wanted he wanted to rely on the grace again he wanted to say well you know God's going to do this my bishop told me that as long as I'm as I'm headed in the right direction and I'm I'm doing my best then then I'll be okay and and I said well let me ask you a question I got this question from Timothy Oliver he said why would God deny his word and give you grace when you haven't met the requirements for it I mean do we really think that we are that special that God is going to deny scripture Mormon scripture for our sake simply because we're not meeting the requirements for what he laid out for us in Scripture that's a hard thought because God's not going to deny himself and he certainly isn't going to deny himself for a sinner like me like you like all of us that's an interesting question he really thought about that question and that was what would pretty much shut down the conversation the the pageant was just starting and and I managed to get that point in and I hope that he really really thinks about that but at this point all that they can say is I'm trying I'm really trying I'm doing my best I'm trying well we have words from a prophet about trying and if you haven't gotten this book the miracle of forgiveness you need to have it and chips little outline here for his miracle of forgiveness reference guide you've got to have it because I couldn't remember a certain page I whipped this thing out I found the page and I was able to use that quote with them trying is not sufficient if you've got a miracle of forgiveness open it up to page 164 this is a very very interesting story under the heading trying is not sufficient it states nor is repentance complete when one merely tries to abandon sin to try with the weakness of attitude and effort is to assure failure in the face of Satan's strong counteracting out what is needed is resolute action a story will perhaps illustrate this excuse me an army officer called a soldier to him and ordered him to take a message to another officer put it in said I'll try sir I'll try so this the officer responded I don't want you to try I want you to deliver this message the soldier somewhat embarrassed now replied I'll do the best I can sir at this the officer now disgusted rejoined with some vigor I don't want you to try and I don't want you to do the best you can I want you to deliver this message now the young soldier straightening to his full height approached the matter magnificently as he thought when he saluted again and said I'll do it or die sir - this the now irate officer responded I don't want you to die I don't want you to merely do the best you can and I don't want you to try now the request is a reasonable one the message is important the deaths the distance is not far you are able-bodied you can do what you have ordered now get out of here and accomplish your mission it's normal for children to try they fall and get up numerous times before they can be certain of their footing but adults who have gone through the learning periods must determine what they will do then proceed to do it to try is weak to do the best I can is not strong we must always do better than we can always do better than you can that is a pretty interesting statement do better than you can from this point on if I ever have someone in the conversation say I'm trying I will just look at them and say weak there was one time when I had a group of teens and I had made this point and five minutes after I made this point there were a group of another group of teens came over and they're listening they're new to the conversation they have no idea what we just covered and one of it one of the kids said but I'm trying in unison these other kids looked at him and said wig trying is weak so here's another question is God going to grant you forgiveness of sin because of your weakness you've got to do something don't you you've got to earn it it's weak its weak it's not strong another passage that I like to passage pages that I like to go to in the miracle of forgiveness is page 354 this is a devastating one and actually this is the one that I couldn't remember last night this passage indicates an attitude which is basic to the sanctification we should all be seeking and thus to the repentance which merits forgiveness okay our repentance merits forgiveness it is that the former transgressor must have reached a point of no return to sin wherein there cannot merely be a renunciation but a deep abhorrence of the sin where the sin becomes most distasteful to him where the desire or urge to sin is cleared out of his life has anyone here reached that point where desire to sin is cleared out of your life am I the only one know the desire or the urge to sin hasn't been cleared out of our lives but yet according to a prophet it's got to be before you can be forgiven the desire or urge that's that's tough that's really tough so right about now they're gonna if they haven't already brought it up they're going to say but I can repent I can repent of my sins now you might spend a lot of time on this point of repentance and we're going to spend a good deal of time on it this morning because it's something that they have to understand to get through the argument they've got to understand this point what is repentance and I'll ask them that you mentioned repentance you've said this a couple of times what do you mean by repentance please define repentance sometimes though they'll list the five RS you know they'll get through all five points of repentance most of the times the Mormons don't really understand what repentance is but they will mention something about not doing it again if they mention that that's what I'll focus on and I'll say what do you mean that's not doing it again stuff what do you mean by that and then I'll pull out this tract repentance brings forgiveness which is also written by Spencer W Kimball it's it's got the basically the LDS imprimatur on here it says it's corporation of the president of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints so this is this is their official work here here are the five steps to repentance sorrow for sin the abandonment of sin confession of sin restitution for sin and doing the will of the Father alright the one that I really like to focus on is number two the abandonment of sin it is best when one stops sinning because he becomes aware of the seriousness of his sin he then should want to comply with all the laws of God the thief may abandon his evil in prison but true repentance would have him forsake it before his arrest and return what he had stolen voluntarily the sex offender who voluntarily stops his sin is headed toward forgiveness Alma said blessed are they who humble themselves without being compelled to be humbled and the Lord said by this you may know if a man repented of his sins behold he will forsake them and then there's a reference for dnc 5843 here's his interpretation of dnc 58 the forsaking of sin must be a permanent one true repentance does not permit making the same mistake again true repentance does not permit making the same there's that word again mistake again now you've got lots of directions you can go right now lots of directions one of the questions that I like to ask them is is this saying if this definition is true true repentance does not permit making the same mistake again then is there such a phrase as repent again no because if you repented you won't do it again because you will have forsaken that sin so repentance part of repentance is not repeating the same sin by the way kind of a funny story when I pulled this track out to a couple that I was talking to last week I said do you know who Spencer W Kimball was and I don't know if this kid was stoned or what but I mean he was just kind of looking off and he's like yeah I know I said well who is he he says he was a great man I said well great man who was he and he says he was a very great man and I like to play around a little bit with teenagers and I says was he a very very great man but this is what the Prophet has to say true repentance does not permit making the same mistake again if that's true there is no phrase as repent again now I thought of this last year but it boils down to a couple of things you either repent or you repeat because if you repented you will not repeat if you are repeating you have not repented it's one or the other you either repeat or you repent now this is a sin that all of us are guilty of and I love to ask this question I don't want to get too personal with these people but I want to point something out about sin and I'll ask the question have you ever told a lie I asked this question to a couple of missionaries who were sitting in our our living room and they both admitted that yes yes they've told lies and I said all right now now if there's a possibility that you're going to lie again in the future then you haven't really repented right because if you forsake it then you won't do it again and they said that's right so I asked the guys I said is there a possibility that you'll lie again in the future the honest Mormon said yes and the dishonest Mormon lied and said no if there is a possibility that you'll lie again in the future now think about this lying is a premeditated sin you don't accidentally lie you know why because you've got to make up a story you've got to come up with something you've got to come up with a lie so you're doing this consciously you are lying if there is a possibility that you'll do that again in the future you have yet to repent and that's just one sin what are you going to do with your pride I'll ask the teenage guys what are you going to do with your lust I'll ask the teenage girls what are you going to do with your covetousness you know because Satan Satan is going to get us at our weakest point if he wants to he wants to tempt a guy what's he going to appear as some pretty hot looking chick right if he wants to attempt a woman what's he going to appear as chocolate for a shopping mall right he's going to get us somehow he's going to come to us so I asked the question I say well well if you had repented of lying then let me let me ask you this I said no don't get too personal here because you know I don't want to know all your dirty laundry but can you think of one sin for which you've totally repented I asked that question last year and this this guy that I was talking to I kid you not thirty seconds of silence and he said no no and I said so then basically what you're telling me is you haven't repented of anything and you're guilty of everything lay it on thick the guy I talked to you last night it's about 10 seconds honest guy and he said yes there is one sin for which I have totally repented and I said awesome that is great you've got one down how many more do you have to do and he said thousands I stopped the conversation right there I shook his hand and I said I am so grateful to be talking to an honest Mormon you have no idea what that does for me because a lot of Mormons they want to hide their sin they want to lie again but this this kid wasn't he wasn't about that he wanted to tell the truth about his sin he told me what his sin does to him and and I just pray that God really gets a hold of this kid his name is Corey if you guys want to pray for him but he he's not quite local he lives just south of here I told him that if he wants to come up and talk some more I'll be at the pageant every night just come up and find the Hat and and I hope I hope that he does I really hope that he does so one of the one of the stories that I always like to tell about repentance because it's it's so it's a such a powerful thing and it really explains the difference between a couple of things how many of you are camping out in the city park Manti City Park okay traditionally all the Christians camp in the northwest corner of the park and we were there camping out in the park and usually the Mormons camp everywhere else sometimes you'll get a tent or two of Mormons who haven't got the memo that we're hanging out in the Christian corner you know otherwise known as the Christian ghetto well this one family evidently didn't hear about it and and it was a bunch of them and they start pitching up their tents amongst our tents and what was different about this family is that they were there for a family reunion so they were staying for a number of nights most people who watch the pageant pits their tents they watched the pageant they take down their tents in the morning they're gone you get a whole new crew well this year or that that year a couple years ago with this family they were there for the long haul and it didn't take them long to figure out who we were you're walking around a man tied with shirt like this and across they know who you are they don't like you so we're sharing the pavilion with them and and I was I was sitting up near the fireplace I had my laptop in front of me and I was trying to get some journaling done so I could send it back to my mom so that she could send it out to those were praying for so that they have some more details and know how to pray and the matriarch of the family she was probably in her late 70s maybe early 80s she's on the other end of the pavilion and she starts barking at her adult daughter they don't think we're Christians though it's all about grace and faith and but what about works because James says faith without works is dead and she keeps barking this at her daughter and her daughter evidently got sick of listening to it she went in the tent and this lady marches right up to me and sits right down in front of my laptop and I'm thinking Lord I'm on this mission trip and you keep giving me these Mormons to talk to I can't get anything done so I shut the laptop and we have I kid you not a three-hour conversation three hours and we got to this point about repenting and she told me with all seriousness she said Keith when I got baptized into the LDS Church I didn't sin for a year now there's two normal responses to that the first response which all of you are having right now yeah right the other response if you're LDS and you believer whoa all right well I've been accused of thinking outside the box sometimes I don't know what box people are talking about but I didn't have either response she was waiting for this you know me to just kind of burst up with joy or something like that and I just looked at her I said man that's horrible she says what are you talking about I said man that's got to be about the worst thing I've ever heard in my life she said I just told you I stopped sinning for a year what's so bad about that I said ma'am why'd you start again you see you just pointed out the difference between temporarily stopping sin and forsaking sin what are you required to do stop or forsake repeat or repent right I've got an uncle who's who says stopping smoking is easy he's done it a hundred times has he ever really stopped or forsaken no well this lady really understood that point she understood it and next to her did not offend her because of the relationship that we had had built through this vigorous three-hour conversation and I said ma'am you don't have a whole lot of time left and she took that she was not offended she really understood that I cared about her that I loved her because if she can really stop sinning well then that's the condition you need to be in before you're going to be saved and you've got to do that now you've got to do that now well one objection to that is the point that well I can I can repent in the afterlife I have heard numerous Mormons tell me that I can complete my repentance after death that's when you take them to Alma chapter 34 we had a guy on our team at numerous years ago who coined this the hammer because it just hammers the point home and it's it's a devastating passage in fact I've heard many stories of ex-mormons being having this verse late at their feet by people who by Mormons who didn't want them to leave they were using this passage as a threat of what they were going to face if they really left Mormonism this is Alma chapter 34 and I'm going to start and read verse 32 says for we be for behold this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God behold the day of this life is the time for men to perform their labors and now as I have said unto you before as he have had so many witnesses therefore I beseech of you that you do not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end for after this day of life which is given for us to prepare for eternity behold if we do not improve our time while in this life then cometh the night of darkness where and there can no laborer be performed you cannot say when you are brought to that awful crisis that I will repent that I will return to my god now you cannot say this for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that you go out of this life that same spirit will have will have power over you to possess your body in that eternal world for behold if you have procrastinated the day of your repentance even until death behold you have become subjected to the spirit of the devil and he death seal you his therefore the Spirit of the Lord hath withdrawn from you and have no place in you and the devil hath all power over you and this is the final state of the wicked the final state of the wicked that is a tough tough thing to hear for a Mormon so think that they could be sealed to Satan their procrastinating their repentance if you haven't completed your repentance in this life might as my wife likes to put it we're toast we're toast this a couple years ago when the Nauvoo temple opened it was in 2002 there were three teenagers that I was talking to I jokingly referred to them as the three Nephites and we were having some pretty good conversation and I really got a leading of the Lord that I was not to start with Moroni 10:32 or any other passage that I was supposed to go right to alma 34 and i I did I went right there and and I pointed out to these kids that says you know how long have you been LDS I said all our lives well how many generations and I forget how many generations it was but I mean it was it was it was quite a I mean the family had been in in the Church for generations so I said so I guess you were born under the Covenant and he said that's right what that means is if your parents are sealed together in the temple then any child who was born into that union is automatically born under the Covenant as a family unit so you're born under the governor right you're sealed your family that's right I said well you're not completing your repentance yet right I mean you haven't you haven't finished that and he said well no I'm only 16 I've got a lot of work to do and so then what you're really telling me is you're not sealed to your family you're sealed to say because you haven't completed your repentance if you are repenting you have not repented and that was a devastating point for him he didn't know how to handle that because he was looking at what the passage says and the passage says you've got to do it in this life I went through the other day and I think I counted five times the phrase this life this life this life the day of this life we've got to do it here we've got to do it now this is the final state of the wicked you know what that means you can't repent in the spirit world the final state I like to ask the question are you comfortable with your position before God knowing that you are unrepentant and that you are still in your sins they don't like that position they don't like that position again this kid that I talked to last week I asked him about that I said well you know have you repented yet and he says he says no I'm I'm trying and I read this passage and and I kid you not these are his exact words as well when are you going to repent and he says I'll get around to it I said that's a very definition of procrastination and I've been trying to learn how to procrastinate for years I just never get around to it and he understood that he says well yeah I guess so but he didn't know what else to do I think he was faced with the seriousness of his sin and his inability to stop but you know what he never asked for the gospel and I think that a lot of times we give the gospel to quickly will jump in and tell them how to get saved and and then they'll think oh yeah well okay we believe that too without coming to the conclusion that they're still relying on themselves they're not hearing the Gospel message so I dropped little hints and I said you know the difference between you and I is is you know if a car were to come through here right now and take us both out you're still in the repentance process you're sealed to Satan and I know first first certainty that I'm going to I'm going to be with Heavenly Father I'm going to live with him and he didn't ask well how do you know that he was he was just wanting to get away with away from me so all I could do was pray he didn't have he didn't have ears to hear at that point he wasn't ready for the gospel so so I didn't give it to him now there is one sticking point about this is that I I did some research I was looking into a manual and I've actually had Mormons tell me that yes you can repent in the afterlife and I actually have a quote that states that you can this is out of the prepper preparing for exultation teachers manual page 123 says remind class members that while perfection cannot be entirely achieved in this life we can make great progress toward it the Lord expects expects us all to do or the Lord expects us to do all we can toward giving up our sins and becoming perfect and he has given us the gospel to help us do this so this manual says you're not going to be able to do it now when I came across this quote I honestly had trouble with it I thought you know what I can't I can't teach the impossible gospel the way that I normally do then II more because it does say you can't do it in this life and that you've got the afterlife to do it so I was I was thinking a lot about it and I was meditating on it I was like well how am I going to get around this what am I going to do and then it hit me I started thinking about all the conversations that I had when people are saying yeah you can do it in the afterlife what's the next thing they say when they say you can do it in the afterlife but it will be harder it's going to be harder to do in the afterlife so I remember that and I started looking up other other quotes and I've got a quote here from elder Dilbert L Stapley this is out of the the blessings of righteousness and righteous obedience inside November 1977 page 18 he says we must recognize that mortality has been granted to us as a probationary state where all physical appetites are to be mastered it is far more difficult to repent in the spirit world of sins which involve physical habits and actions this is a conference report October 1970 from President Hartman record jr. he says oh yes it's possible to repent in the spirit world although we are given to understand that it is much more difficult to repent there because we will not have our physical bodies to help us it may be very difficult to gain forgiveness of these kinds of sins president Brigham Young said it is a hundred times easier to repent here on earth than it is in the spirit world so I thought about that for a little bit and I in these Mormons who will tell you that yes you can repent in the afterlife but it's going to be harder there that doesn't make sense to me because when I'll ask the question are you telling you that it's impossible to attain perfection in this life and they say yes and then I'll ask the question then how can you take comfort that you're going to attempt to do something that's harder than impossible in the next life can you do something that's harder than impossible Brigham Young said a hundred times harder than impossible does that make any sense why are they taking comfort in that it's a hundred times easier to do it now and that's why Alma says time after time after time this life this life so if a Mormon once to bring up this objection you can go in that direction or you can do what I usually do and tell them the Book of Mormon teaches there is no after world repentance it's not in the book it's not there so is it possible to do something a hundred times harder than impossible no no it doesn't make sense so at this point you can you can try to really wrap it up for them again go over the idea that their whole eternity hangs on the word if they only get the grace after all they can do they're still in their sins their lack of performance is no one's fault but their own here's another interesting one I like to go over the sacrament was talking to a group of Tongans last night and they mentioned the sacrament and they mentioned how the sacrament is where they renew their baptismal covenants and I said well why do you have to renew them because they broke Commandments so then what you're telling me is you broke your covenant any ex-mormons in the room okay we've got quite a few the term covenant breaker is that a happy thought no that's what they call you when you leave the LDS Church you're a covenant breaker you broke your covenants son of perdition that's right so what I like to do is I like to show them that every week that they take the sacrament their covenant breaker they broke their covenants because you would not have to renew a covenant that you never broke I want them to think about that every Sunday I want them to be reminded of that every Sunday the gospel what is that what does that word mean good news is this good news no no this is not good news it's not good news at all and because it's not good news I often am accused of judging people you're judging me and I'll ask them I'm not I'm not well I'll tell them I'm not judging you I'm not judging you at all but let me ask you a question if you're driving down i-15 and you see the sign this is 75 and you're you look down at your speedometer and you're doing 105 do you roll down your window and scream at the signs to stop judging me it's not judging you it's reminding you what the standard is the law says 75 not 105 I'm not judging you I'm the speed limit sign I'm reminding you of what your law is and a lot of times I'll say well you're not perfect you're not either you know how are you doing with that you know they'll throw some of the same things back at me and I'll tell them well this is this is your standard it's not mine this is what the LDS Church teaches this is this is not this is not what the Bible teaches but by now hopefully we've gotten them lost they really understand that they're lost I'm going to cover just a couple of things about how to how to get into the gospel but if you want to learn more about that watch the other part of this Aaron's got it up on his channel but again we don't want to tell the gospel too quickly and his marshall in here Marshalls not here he talked with a guy last night that I talked that I talked to every year for the last nine years this man's name is Dale he's a faithful Mormon he's a good friend of mine and the first time I met him was in 2001 and we got to talking and we went through this whole approach the whole impossible gospel and he understood it but he was confused on one point and he says well well I believe all that - but but here's my question for you I have faith in Christ what's the difference between my faith in Christ and your faith in Christ because you obviously think that I'm lost in your not yet we both have faith in Christ so what is different between your faith and mine so I asked him this question I said Dale would you say that Jesus is one of many Cerie things for forgiveness or is he alone sufficient and he said he alone is sufficient Jesus is sufficient to cover my sins I said if that's the case and then I pointed to the Manti temple and I said then that building is unnecessary if Jesus is sufficient that building is unnecessary he changed his answer so wait wait a minute wait a minute what I meant to say is actually he said this first he said no Jesus is in every stone of that temple to me that's a deal that's that's blasphemy he said no Jesus is one of many necessary things I said all right if that's the case then what you're telling me is Jesus is insufficient and I want to hear you say that he could not verbalize that he couldn't say it because it just doesn't sound right to say Jesus is insufficient he couldn't verbalize that I said that's the difference I trust Christ alone you you trust Christ plus plus whatever you see every religion in the world is spelled the same way d-ohh you've got to do whatever it is that they set out that you have to do for whatever goal you have to get you've got to do only Christianity is in E it's done he did it for you you either accept it or you reject it Jesus is sufficient at this point you can show them isaiah 64:6 that talks about our righteous deeds being filthy rags in fact i brought this out one time during the salt lake olympics i was talking with a group of kids and this returned missionary come up and and i was going through the impossible gospel it was it was a really good time and this kid was trying to this guy was trying to disrupt it and he says well what about faith without works and I just looked at him I said have you repented of your righteous deeds why would I want to do that I said well because Isaiah says our righteous deeds are as filthy rags do you really want to please try to please God with your filthy rags what are you trusting the righteousness of Christ or your filthy rags what should we be trusting I'm going to close in this go to Romans chapter 10 Romans is the most inspired book in the Bible my wife thinks Hebrews is the most inspired with the Bible this is Romans chapter 10 make sure I'm on the right page alright this is brethren my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel we could say Mormonism is that they might be saved for I bear them record that they have a zeal for God but not according to knowledge for they being ignorant of God's righteousness and going about to establish their own righteousness have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God you see we've got we've got two sets of righteousness here the righteousness of Christ or our own righteousness which is filthy rags if you can get a Mormon to understand the difference between those two you can get a Mormon to come to Christ if the Spirit of the Lord is working in that conversation so I I hope this has been helpful for you we can do some Q&A effort I know we went out over time but we can shut off the video here now I guess and then I can hang around for a while and answer some questions so so thank you very much for your attention and I'll be here to help if you need any help

Channel: Aaron Shafovaloff

Views: 42,451

Rating: 4.4033613 out of 5

Keywords: manti, pageant, 2009, impossible, gospel, lds, mormon, mormonism

Id: ryrxhQ6rtwc

Length: 78min 23sec (4703 seconds)

Published: Sun Jun 28 2009