North Community TV | First Forum Discussion

[Music] hello everyone and welcome to the celebration of the 25th anniversary of the broadcasting Services Act Michelle Rowland is here with us and I think quite a number of us know about Michelle but let me say that she's got a very impressive both professional and parliamentary record she was Shadow Minister for citizenship and multiculturalism Shadow Minister for small business and currently Shadow Minister for communications she's also be had a number of executive positions in the public sector and and elsewhere interestingly her interest in multiculturalism small business and communications of direct relevance to community television why because sound thirty-one as we all know caters for cultural diversity with more than 20 language groups participating in our programming small business it's the area where we derived our revenue and I'll talk a little bit more about that later and communications because it's the portfolio in the federal government that is directly responsible for channel 31 up to the period that we called the the free to air license now community broadcasting together with the national and commercial broadcasting constitute the three pillars of the broadcasting Services Act so community television is listed in the act it's not something that you know came out of nowhere CTV I'll call community television CTV CTV in contrast with community radio has received a very little government funding and support despite this we have managed to survive and here in Melbourne I could say thrive with the recent annual turnover of two and a half million dollars from sponsorships and airtime fees unfortunately in 2014 the federal government decided not to renew its on 31 free-to-air license directing CTV into becoming an online broadcaster by the end of 2015 the event Minister Malcolm Turnbull argued that the government needed the FDI spectrum for testing the mpeg-4 new technology and that sound 31 would be more successful as an online broadcaster two things both of these claims have been proven wrong the tests were not really required at least until now and some 31 was almost made bankrupt with the significant loss of advertising or sponsorship revenue as a result of the announced imminent loss of the free-to-air thousands of sound 31 volunteers and supporters opposed the loss of the FDI and advocated that we should embrace the online-only status at the same time as other broadcasters we recognize the impact of the digital disruption and the rapidly changing media habits of our viewers however as a lean community broadcaster that receives negligent funding from the government for our operations we knew that it would require several years to reestablish a social enterprise that would enable us to operate in the new and very challenging online environment the numerous extensions we have been granted since 2016 prove how long the initial government decision was to force us out of the FDI within a short period of time CTV is still very valuable complement to the commercial and national media as it encourages ordinary people to participate in the media and to have a voice people living with disability cultural diverse groups at-risk youth and other minorities are keen to continue to fund their own programs on sound thirty-one and they put in many hours of voluntary work every week in order to empower their communities and give them the opportunity to participate in the rapidly emerging digital revolution if I can call it that we continue to reach one and a half million unique viewers in Melbourne and Geelong every month we are not resisting change we merely wish to be given adequate time and resources to adjust and succeed in the new environment unfortunately the sudden announcement that we would lose our FTA has threatened our viability and it was an if it was not for the philanthropic sector recognizing the important contribution we make to social well-being channel 31 would not have survived we are grateful to Centre Xenophon for his recent actions to prolong our FDA life and were also very pleased with the initiative Michelle to consult with the community on this very important issue thank you also for the leadership you are showing in relation to community television and we are optimistic that in the next few months you will be able to develop a strategy or a position paper or policy paper that would maintain community television along the lines of community radio this seems to be an unexplained discrepancy here there are two branches of community broadcasting one is radio and the other is television and online is something that emerges in between those community radio has the privilege of some seventeen million dollars and that's good they deserve it but what about community television don't they deserve one two three four million dollars somehow government has got it wrong and it's important that we rectified it we very hopeful that you might be the person that does that thank you very much we haven't invited a lot of people because this was meant to be a meeting of the board of channel 31 and a few members but these people he present here have got a lot of connections that will pass on the information to those who are not present thank you yeah I firstly want to acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which we meet and pay my respects to their elders past and present thank you Mike for that very generous introduction and the very relevant linkages that you have made with respect to community broadcasting and community television in particular you make some very salient points about the broadcasting Services Act that's just clicked over 25 years it's great to be here in Melbourne this fine evening and thank you so much for so many people for turning out for what I think is an important discussion that we need to have thank you very much to channel 31 for hosting me for the advice of your general manager matt field in conceiving it for the hard work of the staff of channel 31 and their dedicated team of young volunteers and setting everything up I was once a young volunteer your efforts are sincerely appreciated and thank you very much for being here and thank you also to RMIT and those of you representing RMIT for hosting us here on campus tonight for the benefit of those watching us on the livestream RMIT V is the student-run television production house here at RMIT it has a long history of producers and practitioners moving into professional employment in the industry the alumni of RMIT TV include Road McManus Peter Hillier Hamish and Andy Merrick Watson Tim Ross Nazim Hussain Waleed Aly Shona Devlin and Tom Bella just to mention a few a very impressive roll call REM ITV has also had crew members go to work at the ABC network ten video works or stage staging connections and many more tomorrow I'm going to appear at the conference of commercial radio Australia an industry that has benefited so greatly from the talent and innovation nurtured in and by the community broadcasting sector in Australia so it's only fitting that I'm here tonight it's great to be here not only to meet with you to speak and hear about the many and varied activities being undertaken here in Melbourne but also because the simple fact that you are indeed as I said still here so why community TV forum now it's timely over the last few months in particular the staff of my office and I have been in contact with representatives of the community television sector across the country with channel 31 in Melbourne channel 44 and Adelaide W TV in Perth to discuss community television in Australia we found it extremely useful to have people like Mike and Matt field to share ideas with and that's why we're here in Parliament I have made representations on behalf of the sector to extend the licence period for community TV and in general I think thinking about the role of broadcasting and community broadcasting in the 21st century a time of great transformation for the media industry as a whole this time last week indeed Thursday the 5th of October marked the 25th anniversary of the commencement of the main provisions of the broadcasting Services Act in 1992 the actors Mike rightly pointed out contains a number of provisions crafted to promote diversity and to maintain competitive tensions in a market that would otherwise be characterized by consolidation these provisions serve diversity both in terms of the structure of the broadcasting sector as well as the content it provides for example on the structural side that creates different categories of broadcasting services so we have a diversity in the type of broadcasting services in Australia a mix of commercial subscription community and national broadcasters for example in addition the Act contains provisions on who can control our media so we have diversity at the level of ownership and control and a number of distinct media voices in different areas community radio and community television play an important role in meeting the objectives of the broadcasting Services Act and it's worth while revisiting some of those promoting the diversity of broadcasting services available to the Australian public developing and reflecting Australian identity character and cultural diversity and providing programming that is locally significance and over 25 years advances in technology have led to the switch off of analog television and the advent of digital multi channelling nowadays we have many more broadcasting channels yet the decision was taken by Malcolm Turnbull as Minister at the time that we should have less services 25 years later we see the Turnbull government actively dismantling the diversity safeguards we have with no plan for adapting our regulatory framework or diversity safeguards to 21st century conditions and I do want to say something about media diversity because it's important for community television and it's important for the sector as a whole and quite frankly our democracy it's at this point in our history it's my strong opinion that media diversity is under attack in Australia media diversity is a key issue in a communications portfolio indeed it is fundamental to our very identity as a nation to our level of social cohesion as well as the proper functioning of our democracy I can assure you that labour is very much aware of these issues we see broadcasting in the context of society at large a society that comprises digital natives and early adopters as well as people who might not go online very much at all whether because they don't know how to they can't afford to or they don't have decent internet connectivity for example people of different ages abilities and means of different languages and ethnicities whatever the reasons there are many communities for whom the ubiquitous stable and free broadcast platform remains vital but it's not just communities who are on the wrong side of the digital divide for whom this is the case indeed for the majority of Australians today it is the traditional media commercial TV commercial radio and newspapers that remain the main source of news and current affairs that's consumed and it's well-known fact that Australia already has one of the most concentrated media markets in the world yet this government has recently taken at least three key steps weaken and undermine what little media diversity we have left firstly we've got the decision by Malcolm Turnbull to kick community TV off the air sending it to an over the top delivery model without giving the sector enough time to make the transition this was a step to wipe a distinct local voice from the television broadcasting mix entirely a diminution in diversity in our broadcasting services secondly the decision by Malcolm Turnbull again as Communications Minister and then as Prime Minister to cut the budgets of our national broadcasters the ABC and the SBS to meddle in their charters and now to appease Pauline Hansen's one nation party to Menace the ABC and SBS with a competitive neutrality inquiry this is a step to weaken and undermine the strength of the voice of the national broadcasters trusted broadcasters which add much-needed diversity to our media mix and thirdly most recently the Turnbull government's changes to Australia's media ownership and control laws specifically the repeal of the two-out-of-three cross media control rule this rule prevents a person from controlling all free media platforms out of commercial TV commercial radio and associated newspapers in any one licence area in order to promote diversity by preventing any one voice from becoming too powerful or dominant the repeal of this rule is going through this rule is going through Parliament now it has passed the House in the Senate and is expected to return for final passage in the sittings next week now whatever your views on the repeal of this rule maybe you cannot deny that it is designed to allow media consolidation taken together the media ownership changes the plans to undermine the public broadcasters and the government's mess of a community TV policy represent a direct assault on media diversity in Australia an assault that has huge implications for our democracy and our culture so I want to move to community broadcasting today and it's for these reasons that community broadcasting including community television broadcasting is as important as ever in the face of media consolidation by commercial media companies the distinct and local content provided by community TV has even greater value malcolm turnbull first announced the plan to send community television over the top to an online-only distribution model in september 2014 saying that online would be the best outcome for community TV now I know I'm sure you do as well that the NBN rollout has not progressed to a stage that makes migration of audience and sponsors a straightforward proposition many Australians do not have Indian services available and do not have an active connection or do not have the internet download speeds required for satisfactory viewing experience all the same in the time since Community TV operators have been working very hard to make the best of the situation that was thrust upon them operate under great uncertainty as the deadline for switch off looms and is extended at the 11th hour time after time and mike has noted the impact of these decisions community TV stations they aren't toasters there are consequences of turning them on and off of having that uncertainty as Mike highlighted the implications for sponsorship have been immense all of the stations have made difficult decisions to reduce staff and expenditure and work to develop new sources of income in anticipation of a reduction in revenue that comes with the transition to the online model just as the commercial broadcasters and the national broadcasters are community tell them television broadcasters have launched websites and apps Community TV is using the broadcast platform to drive audiences to their online offerings and using the online offerings to build new audiences they are exploring new revenue streams they are working with platforms like YouTube and Facebook to promote their content while some community TV licences have been handed back others valiantly continue to operate and work through technical difficulties and the challenge of migrating their audiences and sponsors online as a research report from the parliamentary library published in 2014 stated and I quote Community Media Cube significantly to the pool of media voices available survival is difficult for broadcasting Community Media because they often most often operate on small budgets operating largely as a result of support from the communities they serve and I want to acknowledge that I know there are representatives from many of those communities here tonight as I said in Parliament when making representations to government to extend broadcasting licences earlier this year these passionate members of the community simply want to keep going what they need most is time to finish the media is in transition things are changing but some things remain the same online platforms and new technologies have fundamentally altered audience consumption patterns and business models in the media sector however the broadcast platform continues to enjoy its strength as a ubiquitous free stable mass platform the internet Co exists alongside broadcasting broadcasters of all categories almost always have an online presence as well indeed broadcasters are inextricably linked with technology platforms like Google and Facebook to help get their content out to audiences it is not a question of whether broadcasters deliver content over the broadcast platform or the internet they need to do both and they do both the government is about to repeal the two-out-of-three cross media ownership rule and allow commercial media companies to consolidate even further and I think this action actually strengthens the case for community television it strengthens it at this point now more than ever Australians need strong and vibrant public broadcaster's and community TV and radio broadcasters across platforms to ensure that diversity in our media voices so now is indeed the time to reimagine the role of community television broadcasting I look forward to hearing your questions but most of all your ideas as Mike said this is an important part of policy development labour is formulating its in this area community television is a vital policy that will be developed the best way in order to have a relevant policy in this area is to consult and is to listen that's the key reason why I'm here today and I thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to do so thank you thanks very much Michelle and thanks for your ongoing passion and interest in support of community TV it's it's really appreciated and thanks mark and thanks to the c31 family for coming along tonight and hello to everyone in facebook land my name is Brendon I'm a digital manager at channel 31 I'd also like to acknowledge and honor the First Nations peoples and pay respect to elders past and present as custodians of this land I'm going to speak to you very briefly before we take some questions about some of the challenges and the opportunities that are presented by the transition to online and touch on why as Michelle said TV is still such an important and crucial aspect of this transition as we all know the media landscape is changing quickly and dramatically but reports of the death of TV have been greatly exaggerated it's still a vital platform for channel 31 it's our identity it is who we are we are Melbourne and Geelong you've heard that tagline sure we can connect with global audiences online around the world now but our identity is a hyperlocal Melbourne local TV station that's crucial to the relevance of our content and it's unique and it's it's vital moving forward as part of this transition Mike and Michelle touched on changing compression formats and technologies and that means that there is simply no reason to take community TV off the air there is spectrum enough for us all and you just have to look globally to changing technology and how that has opened up opportunities if you look at the UK and the community TV model there where there are now more than 20 local TV stations broadcasting over the Internet yes but also via local TV and connecting with audiences that way we see the the TV broadcast platform as vital to connecting with audiences who as Michelle said still prefer to use that platform as their their number one way to watch content older audiences various diverse community groups many people still have TVs in their lounge rooms believe it or not and will do for many years to come but as Mike said we're under no illusions the world is changing of course but we think that TV is crucial to driving people from old media to new to helping to transition viewers of all ages and from all backgrounds and we're using the the TV to drive audience is not just to our own official c31 on plaque online platforms but also to the social media accounts and the websites and the online initiatives of our huge and diverse network of producers that is the real strength of c31 the dedicated volunteers and producers and their audiences and sponsors who contribute so much so much to australia's media landscape we're doing this for with our producers but also for our own online initiatives we're now regularly broadcasting life to Facebook like we are tonight and enter TV simulcasting local sports arts events festivals things like the Reckling community cup and local comedy initiatives and and media content that just doesn't get a look-in on commercial and mainstream media another important initiative a multi-platform initiative that I just like to touch on briefly we've just launched called project one million check it out at project 1 million org if you haven't seen it already we're partnered with local filmmakers at youth works digital marketers at loud days and also charities including Amnesty International the Long Walk children's ground altogether now to produce a video campaign to tackle racism head-on we're producing stories that celebrate and share the diversity and the human spirit that binds us all as Australians and we're using TV social media marketing and also crowdfunding to take these really important stories of social cohesion into the news feeds and the the Landrum's of Australians from all walks of life that's just one projects a big complex project that we've been working on for the best part of 12 months but that's just one project as you know in a multi-platform world with shrinking budgets it is a complex transition to handle projects like this aren't easy to deploy there are many parties involve government regulators technology providers funding bodies commercial sponsors audiences producers volunteers not to mention the different audiences in the way that they engage with content on various platforms and that content needs to be optimized and distributed and edited in different ways whether it's on TV or snapchat this complexity is why all government really need to get behind channel 31 and community TV more broadly at this crucial time TV is who we are it is extremely relevant and will continue to be so for many years and as Michelle and Mark have both said we don't need to be using one or the other we need to be distributing content in many different ways there are many different platforms and local TV throughout Melbourne and Geelong is still absolutely vital for that we're supporting content creators and viewers and producers and sponsors from all walks of life to make this transition but it won't happen overnight it's a complex process and one that we really need to get behind as we know there's a real lack of quality locally made Australian content journalism in particular and channel 31 and community TV provides a platform for the next generation of content creator is to hone their craft to find their audiences and really add to Australia's media landscape so thanks Michelle again for your support and we hope everyone listening will get behind community TV and allow us to have some more time to go online thank you I think we are going to take a few questions now there's a microphone over here so maybe we'll share that around feel free to ask some questions to Michelle like we're actually hundreds of groups with the Russian Spanish is a big group really small groups also you know groups wanting to start up unfortunately over the last two years we've even lost some of the smallest groups so there's these problems with with TV and ratings and numbers and sponsors and of course the small groups can't attract big numbers but we still want to service them we still want them to have a show but we've lost a lot is there anything that you say could develop in the future to help some of our smaller groups through us but help them you know maybe with CB f-type radio funding or there's quite a lot that can be done we've lost a few over the last two years naturally it's been a shocking time and they all need similar things but also they will need to be out there in their communities to making the programs is there any small funding or any other way that you can help us to help sure it'd be useful to understand when you say you've lost some of those groups whether it's because of that uncertainty or whether it's because some of it might have been natural attrition that was maybe sped up as a result of the online platform because I think I make two points firstly as many people in this room would know volunteerism while in Australia it's very strong it's often very difficult to maintain that level of interest by people of different groups you know for extended periods of time so that could be that's often one of the reasons why you have people falling away but if they're falling away because of a second issue is because they don't think that they are valued by government then that becomes a serious issue look government needs to needs to have an expression of value of community broadcast in particular community television I must say that you know and I'm not saying this purely to be partisan I'm happy to be corrected by anyone here I don't see a statement of value that's been articulated by this government when it comes to this pillar of the broadcasting Services Act I don't see that value so I think one of the most important things in developing policy in this area is to understand I think three things firstly regardless of the way in which the media landscape is changing content will always be king secondly there's that point about diversity that I make there and you only have diversity when you have those people actually wanting to be involved and actually maintaining their involvement because that's how you obtain the different voices and thirdly how do you encourage that diversity and how do you have that content it is yeah it does require money because you'll have the level of volunteers but you still have to run yes you'll have to run the show so I think in that sense it would be a very useful exercise to examine how public funding for content is being done in Australia and we've got this content conversation in this content review that's being undertaken at the moment I'll be very interested to see what sort of recommendations come out from that that specifically go to issues of community television and I'm actually I haven't seen any reports which probably isn't surprising but I haven't seen any reports that specifically go to that I've seen more of the focus being on how the free-to-air networks can have their regulation as some of their regulation undone more than anything else but I think that content conversation definitely needs to include community television it's one that I will be acutely looking out for but your point is very well made about the the smaller groups how many there are and that's C 31 let alone the others that we've had before I might end on this point you if those those groups aren't participating now then where are they going and I think that is a real shame that we have had that diminution of voices because you know the point has been made you get the proliferation of people with different views on social media the question becomes does that proliferation means that you mean that you're getting a diversity of news and current affairs probably not but certainly what you are getting through having such a wide variety and large scale of people who are interested in community television you are getting that diversity of content because they are diverse people who want to see diverse things so your point is well made thank you very much I'm happy to have comments as well as questions I should say I'm here to listen more than from I come from Chile they connected from Chile now we have Victoria representative in Chile then doing business with them and there are many other big business they doing that so even Victoria against two other stay even as the federal level they have like multicultural act that they protect the diversity they protect the language the culture so how this victorian government know behind this act they can now give your support even at the federal level to the the community TV in this case i asking about the community TV that they were the foundation of the channel sorry one many ethnic group because they were the informant regional group there were community TV south north is west barrage so they were Spanish Italian Greek artist they were all those still doing program for channel 31 in Melbourne so that is channel 7 in Melbourne I think he was one of the best as a model to the other because they were really community and they were just get funding by the sponsor so we all this year didn't receive no one a cent from the government federal government or stay home maybe some time they give you but the really key thing is the channels anyone was a model I think it they should keep it for all other state no I thank you thank you very much sir I guess just in response to your comments which I take completely on board it's interesting talking about the different cultures that make astray agree and I think too often these days we have people who are very ready public leaders who are very ready to talk about multiculturalism but when it comes to actually putting that into action they're not they're hard to find they're hard to find when it comes to put it putting that into action you about Victoria and some other states having multicultural acts we don't have one yet there isn't one federally called a multiculturalism act and quite frankly we've been working quite hard in labor just to keep the racial discrimination act some of those main provisions but what I take from your comments is it's one thing for politicians to talk about multiculturalism and how we're a great multicultural nation you need to actually back that up with some proper policy action so your point is very well made thank you so we often hear about the success stories of you know big personalities like Rove and Hamish and Andy and many others that have come from community TV but just as important as a pathway an experience of that community TV provides to young and up-and-coming journalists how important do you believe that community TV is to the continued strength and quality of the Australian journalism landscape that's an excellent question Katie I think it's imperative I think it's imperative for those reasons that I gave about diversity in terms of content but also diversity in terms of ownership and the regulator themself I believe it was the regulator who did a study that showed as I alluded to earlier the proliferation of people who are ready to comment and give comments and 140 characters or whatever doesn't necessarily expand on the diversity of opinions that we have I think it's a real misnomer and I've argued this in terms of met the media reform debate just to say the internet means anyone can have their comment these days I think it's much deeper than that we did have what I thought at the time to be quite a quite a useful inquiry being undertaken by the Senate into public interest journalism and that was supposed to be the vehicle by which we were able to have a look at media diversity what constitutes journalism I don't even think it got to the stage where I could actually define what a journalist is these days because the definition seems to be so fluid that should have been a piece of evidence that was taken into account before we had this piece of legislation put before the Parliament but that's all history now but I couldn't agree with him more Katie that it is so important for the quality of that content production people who are ready to ask the questions and learn their craft through that Avenue so it couldn't agree with him more simple questions there is two companies broadcasting SBS and ABC they both aberrant and channels channel ABC has four channels and channel is based as well for TV channels could you take one of them for channel 31 it is in your possibility or not can you do it or you can can you do discussion in Europe in Parliament about position of channel 31 now what's its everybody everybody on the surface is all wrong this is and not multicultural policy it's not supporting people with no English language school no elderly people disabled people multicultural background so who should explain halliburton session on Parliament when you can talk to the minister of the communication who is now in power or and another thing we are ready for 25 years on air we change five or six Prime Minister of Australia maybe it's time to change another one and to continue working this general thirty-one as a community television okay well so yes thank you I think you're getting some rounds of a round of applause there yeah I would very much like to change Prime Minister my position on that is well known I said I'm to your to your two points firstly about Ken the first part about you what opportunities are there to undertake this questioning we actually have a process called Senate estimates and that you might have heard of it's where the opposition where the non-government parties actually have the opportunity to question the minister and all government departments in various policy areas that's actually coming up in a couple of weeks and what I would like to do and I'll do it through Matt and others who are here I'm very happy to have some questions put to the minister and the Department on the issues that are raised here tonight and the beauty of that is they actually have to answer those questions they might not be end up being purely verbal answers that are done live but we can certainly also put them what we call on notice so they can have written questions and we get written answers back so all the A's with C 31 about that and make sure that we get get that in your question about the public broadcasters and allocation of spectrum and where they sit look I completely understand where you're coming from at the same time I think it's important to reiterate that we don't want the non I think it would be unhealthy sir for the non commercial broadcasting sectors to start really looking at one another and where they could possibly some for example if you're if you're suggesting one of you know SBS or ABC lose one of their multi channels you would not want that to be I don't think that whatever community TV gets should be at the expense of our public broadcaster's we need to ensure that we have that diversity in including in the non commercial television space but I completely understand your point because and this goes to the very remarks that I was making in Parliament there is spectrum available that spectrum isn't being currently occupied for the purposes of the government claims so it's still capable of being used so I think that that is that is the Avenue that I think has is the like the lowest hanging fruit that is the one in which we can prosecute most readily and the reason for that is because it is fact and this someone comes along and says we've got a plan ready to start testing in this space that's currently occupied by community TV then that argument that the spectrum needs to go somewhere else that argument is defunct and we know that that argument that's being made is defunct so I think you're you're very correct to say that we should be looking at the uses and allocation of spectrum and I think that we should be concentrating on the fact that no one else is currently seeking to get I don't see any petitions going to the government only thing any announcements from the government about exactly what they are going to do with that spectrum now and why it needs to go now so the first one is from Warren from W TV in Perth he asks why do you think that he why do you think the government wants community TV off the broadcast spectrum it's probably a good question to hear for me to put to them look all I can suggest to that answer is you're peering into the evidence that we've got before us in terms of diversity in terms of what the government's done in this area I just don't think that there is there isn't that value given by this government to the various pillars of the broadcasting Services Act that ensure diversity of content and diversity of ownership I think diversity for them is an outdated term they like to state yeah just as they were calling the cross media ownership rules archaic stuck in the past etc again it's this notion that Internet means that we've got other diversity we need you know you can have the internet sitting there how does that guarantee diversity it's what's actually done with it and you actually need shock horror you need humans like people with creative minds people with time people with different backgrounds to actually want to make make use of that spectrum and of that space to be creative people so I guess my short answer peering into the mind of the government is that they're simply this doesn't register as a key value that's fundamental to pluralism fundamental to some of the key tenants of our democracy if the labor if the labour party wins the next election what will they were provide funding will labour provide funding to communities well again one of the reasons why I'm here tonight to find out what we actually need and it's undeniable that one of your key issues here is is about funding because that's an area that's taken a particularly big hit I can say two things firstly I can assure you that labor values community television secondly I think the fact that we've had this turnout on a Thursday night when you could be out doing a lot of other things enables me to take back to to my team that this is a valued element a valued pillar of the broadcasting Services Act and so as we formulate our policy in this area at least I've got that weight of evidence behind us as as well so that's what I can assure James that would be happy to you know keep prosecuting Warren sorry yes and you'd like from the Tribune II I'm just curious as to how much research has actually been done to back up these the claims that online is a viable way to go because a small amount of research we've done is that 72 hours of content is uploaded to the web every minute and somebody's got to curate that content because it's not possible to watch it all so you know it's obvious that there is a role to play for online but the role that community service is community television is playing at the moment is that it's it's it's got a captured audience it's got a captured market that that is online as well as being broadcast and it just seems to be interesting that I you know that this thing of the web will answer all the questions when we know from the small amount of research that we've done that when we broadcast our program we get between 3,000 to 5,000 views both broadcast when we upload it online we're lucky to get a hundred viewers so I'm just curious whether somebody else has done some research to see whether or not that's actually a viable option to put things online no I I haven't seen that research and maybe you would know more than me in this area Angie like when the decision was made was any research provided to community TV that you're aware of to demonstrate that again I think that's yeah look I think I'm here I'm formulating questions for the minister he's got them well and truly unnoticed now but you know I'm a you know I'm a person who you have a lawyer in a past life and it's evidence-based you know policy should be evidence-based and I don't believe that the evidence has been there for the changes that the government's done I have done quite a bit of research through the parliamentary library and there's there's not a great deal there I just I don't know whether the regulator has done this research and simply not released it but indeed I think these are these are all questions that you know need need to be asked because again you know talk yeah yeah look it's research it's it's it's it's chicken and the egg isn't it because so many decisions are being made in the absence of that evidentiary base and when you do that then that is really where you start to undermine those fundamental tenants like the objects of the broadcasting services like weren't just dreamed up like they were devised with a mind to the kind of Australia that we wanted you know we wanted to progress into the future and simply by making decisions that aren't based on sound evidence that are based purely on either fiscal or ideological decisions I think is a recipe for disaster absolutely absolutely well that that's a bit that's an aspect on which research has been done we've had organizations such as Telstra do very detailed research into Digital Inclusion which and choice has done quite a bit of research showing that you know communications costs actually now right up there when it comes to you know you costs of utilities people sometimes far more prepared to pay their data or their their voice voice bills first so they keep that access like as a an essential piece of infrastructure communications rates right up there and secondly we know for a fact judging from even if you take the complaints to the telecommunications industry Ombudsman people aren't getting what they pay for with their internet services and again all these presumptions about going over the top assume that there will be a certain level of connectivity that will be affordable and will be reliable and that simply isn't happening across Australia and that divide is ever more present and getting worse when it comes to certain cohorts not only for in different incomes but also for people of different age groups as well expensive communication programs going through a lot of them don't have mobile to apps that they can use you know get on to the free content yes I couldn't agree with you more think that that assumption about connectivity will simply you know magically appear and you need you need that connectivity in order to drive that online accessibility and for so many people it simply doesn't exist it's not going to be too quick but I try to make it as fast as I can so I've been here for 10 years now and first I was able to to work for SBS radio which is you know one of the more to cultural stream lines and present media and now I'm working for the Hungarian community television it's been four five years with them I've been five years they read them and I'm coming later probably 30 years of background of making content so that's my question is coming from that side that no one actually mentioned the content of the input the importance of of the content what we can see on channel 31 or what we can see on different kind of media platforms because that's my problem since I've been here in Australia I was really touched by you know by Australian possibility or opportunity that was given by SBS radio because at least you can actually use the mix of media representing your language but representing the Australian issues in a in a sense as it comes together somehow so what I can fear that and we know that the census already was done four or five years ago and all the small groups like the Hungarian the Lithuanian and maybe the Russian group was decreased from as be a radio program so out of four programs we went to down to two and suddenly they became and we became again decreased by by the government channel 31 had to close their doors so it's I mean not yet but it's going to happen uncertainty so we are losing our we are losing our audience slowly we are talking about older people mainly who are emigrated with the biggest migration wave happened if you are talking about the Hungarians in 1956 so we are talking about 7080 years or people who are not able they integrated themself into the Australian community but not as strong that they are actually can maintain a conversation with doctors with lawyers about their Adele their real and how to discuss about these kind of situations so there are heaps of question that they are interested in and they are can't listen to the radio anymore they are not able to listen to the community TV but what I would like to tell in here that there is the second generation the third generation and the fourth generation of the Hungarians who are very good in English of course and they try to maintain the Hungarian because Hungarian is one of the VCE subjects this is choosable Ratna but probably if you are if you are trying to emphasize your your your daughter's sons and your granddaughters as the Spanish I'd like to emphasize them to maintain your native language or whatever you can't because they are gonna ask them ask us why what's the reason because it's not going to be choosable anymore in VCA because later sooner or later there is no radio programs in here and there is no TV program among errands and SBS's is announcing all the time that they are proud of multiculturalism and i remember 10 years ago i was able to see documentaries from Spain from Argentina from everywhere Indonesia and from Hungary in their own native language not anymore in as peers and slowly we are losing our multicultural faces as if you all really like to talk to the young generation who inherited heaps of multicultural backgrounds from everywhere from the world they they they ready to to maintain their their heritage even with their language with their dance with their other culture that they are brought up but they can't actually use that anymore because there is no such a platform that they can share it because the mainstream mainstream media is not interested anymore like I have lots of friends who actually were born in Australia they can speak Hungarian with a very particle way it's not as fluent as they you would expect but still they can speak Hungarian and they probably would be happy to to share their knowledge in China at the platform of channel 31 or SBS or wherever but they hardly any chance to to do so and this is the yeah so the question is that finally we got the point so the question is is there any chance to approach either the current government or the next government that that the content is is going to be really important that this kind of channels or media can only support that the phases of the Australian multicultural platform is that because of the small groups or bigger groups team or arrived or emigrated to Australia and if they'd really like to keep these phases as an ongoing sort of fossil fossil fossil sorry that it really need to maintain the background of this media as well I understand exactly what you mean janosh and I can assure you that I'm very aware of it you know as someone who aspires to be can write in the other communications Minister I'm very aware of it and I understand exactly what you're saying about the SBS and there your radio census that they do and they completed their last one only recently I for example represent an area of Western Sydney where I've got some very new emerging communities from the subcontinent but I've also got a lot of really older communities particularly Maltese now gradually over time you know they had submit and they only get a couple of hours a week this is what I think a lot of people don't realize how many the proliferation of languages that are spoken in Australia but it's that is our national broadcaster who carries them and they can really only allocate a couple of hours a week to some of them and some of them of course get taken off regularly when it's decided you know for whatever reason we've got to support these new and emerging there are a lot of African languages that are coming on there's heaps I think that have come on in the last two sets of census that have been done by SBS but that comes at the expense of other languages as well now your point is well made we've got people who come from different backgrounds they camp came in that big big wave of migration including Hungarian including Maltese Italian and so forth there needs to be some outlet to preserve their their language and and their heritage as well and where else are you going to do that so I fully understand what you're saying because whilst our national broadcaster the SBS has that remit they've only got so much space they've only got so much time and they've only got so much budget as well so there is a hunger there is a hunger for these various languages who might be described as some of the older and more established migrant communities to have a voice and I think it's imperative that community television still be one of those outlets where that content can be created and shared more quick questions and then there will be a chance to chat with Michelle as well at the end so we'll just try and get around Kashani first and i guess really it's with the recent news points where both Stan and Netflix have outright said we're not gonna produce it and they're pushing back on that idea that the government has put forward I guess ultimately the question would be with the recent media reform changes potentially affecting local content quotas for free to television do you see community TVs role in ensuring local voice being represented is on our screens being important by moving into the next decade I absolutely do absolutely and I think more than ever as we look at these content conversations that are going on and there is clearly from some elements of the sector you know trying to get rid of some of that regulation which is seen as burdensome and so forth you need to as I said remember we've got some overarching principles for broadcasters and broadcasters in a very privileged position you know the right to use the scarce resource yone spectrum that is used but not consumed you know that is actually it's it's a privilege it's a real privilege and I think that privilege of course belongs to the Australian people and I honestly believe that if we don't have these avenues and for content in community television then we will gradually might not see it overnight but in some cases you do when you know some of these channels unfortunately you just go off the air you won't see it overnight but over time you will see that sort of creepy you know I'm loathe to just say Americanism but you know that's primarily where we can you know from where we derive most of the content that's not Australian on our screens but the opportunity to tell Australian stories the opportunity for people to you know report current affairs the opportunity for people from different backgrounds to actually maintain their multiculturalism so yep short answer is absolutely yeah yeah just we've been producing a television show here on channel 31 now for a long long time we're in our 21st year this year and for the 20 of those years I mean it's it's been a massive struggle every single every single year we get through and ultimately somewhere somewhere along the track we do find a sponsor we find some way of pulling it together this year we've moved online as per the great leap forward and we can see enormous benefits online ultimately online is the future I mean whether it's within the next 5 years 10 years and whatever ultimately it will be online but the problem is what we've sort of raised with the critics of channel 31 is you know what part of the woods community and television don't you understand in the phrase community television because the programme we are now doing this year online has to be radically different in its current in its content from what we've been doing for the last 20 years because simply to survive we've we can't focus on the on the motorsport scene of Melbourne and Geelong anymore because we now have to appeal to the people in Sydney and Brisbane and New Zealand right across the world we have recovers through RMIT very we have something called Formula Student Formula SAE we have 48 percent of our viewership for that live stream is international so that's moving and all around the world but that's fine that's an international competition we've got no opportunity if channel 31 disappears off the air because now we've got a we just can't find sponsors anymore the locals are saying look we don't need to talk to local business the same we don't need to talk to we don't need to talk to Sydney we don't need to talk to New Zealand there's also the problem and it's this is a Pandora's box is the whole question about the laws and rules and regulation because we have been a news program we work under the Australian Copyright Act which allows certain amounts of fair use of certain content that doesn't apply we are constantly getting give like last week we got pulled off the air in New Zealand because I know we owned that nurse and we've gone back to today yes but under Sections so there's a section 27 of the Australian Act that doesn't apply here that doesn't apply in Germany that so for producers you know it's an absolute nightmare in terms of we own the right we actually we actually have permission from Red Bull to use they can't they provide the content we have permission from super cows to use so the Bathurst 1000 for part of our news speed TV in America says no we own that and yeah you're in and we've and we're just volunteers so it's this huge complex thing that nobody's sort of looking at it's all very simple to say how you just go online not that it would be lovely if it was that simple but it's not that simple and it won't be that simple until everybody gets together until we're all working on the same sort of regulations and that's probably never going to happen because yeah like when you're when you're betting you always jump on the horse called self-interest absolutely well so I I've learned a lot even just from your comments there I think that they particularly your last point about copyright and fair use I think there is a lack of understanding and lack of appreciation I mean it's not like you've got the legal department of a free-to-air commercial network to guide you even to question whether some of the notices that you might be given I are accurate yes regulation so the producers can go to potential sponsors and say here's what we can give you and I take take my hat off to you 20 years of producing producing that content but I think you've driven home for me very powerfully it's that uncertainty but also it seems to be a lack of a lack of overall support in assisting you - yeah well firstly to create a structure a structure that's viable but also understanding how much you're a small person having to deal with some of these multinational companies you know and when you have that sort of power imbalance it's not like you can negotiate the terms and conditions of you know access to YouTube or or it or anything else that's sort of use right right and that in that yeah that's being driven by that uncertainty as well so another question from Facebook another one from Warren from w TV he asks could community television have a national broadcast channel possibly with the ABC or SBS so that it could engage with regional and remote communities look it's an interesting it's an interesting proposal that Warren makes for two reasons firstly because yep even seeing the hearing the feedback here tonight it's clearly important community of is clearly important in those regional areas and one of the reasons why we're not reaching its lack of accessibility in those regional areas is the lack of Internet connectivity and it's that ubiquitous free platform that people rely on so that's the first point I would you know I would note I would be reluctant to as I said earlier in response to the question I would be reluctant to pursue an option which would see our public broadcasters losing out I think we need to recognize that all those pillars of players they're all complementary to one another but I think it would be worthwhile for me to you know continue the discussion with Warren directly as well because you know some of some of what I'm hearing here demonstrates that you know just as our public broadcaster's are valued because they have certain charters and they fulfill certain obligations it's clear that community TV is not being seen and valued in that respect so I think the question becomes how do we how do we get that value back Michelle you have been very generous with your time and we are running over a little so I'll throw to John Worcester for one final question and then we'll go to Mike who can wind up in heaven thank you so John John Worcester I've been very active in community radio for 42 years and in community TV since before we started transmitting and I'm Carolee Deputy Chair my my concerns is the government approaches both liberal and labor governments really have not been don't until you have valued what we do the previous one of the previous communications ministers which was Malcolm Turnbull we were not happy with he was absolutely convinced we should not be on free-to-air and off on to the on to on the internet and your predecessor Jason clear took the same line completely so I'm gonna say you so far you're a breath of fresh air and it's good to good to get that approach because if we're not not valued by government then we're not really going to get nuts in the way of assistance especially we struggle and we have struggled with these constants and renewals and our temporal transmission license and this grossly unfair sometimes has happened two days before it was too mean to run out yes and we were sure by people in the department no no there's no way we're going to renew it and then suddenly they do least we seem to be going a bit longer at Lerner thanks to I think some senators and we regret we've lost Scott Ludlam who was a parliamentarian who better than any other one seem to understand community broadcasting so that's a real problem but what we really need is broadcasting license goes to 2019 and really these constant re extensions of the transmission license should be at the very least go through to 2019 and we will be much appreciative it would give us certainty yes yes no completely understand and so keep up keep up your good work no absolutely and I really don't have a response to that other than to say look what you've just said is probably exactly what I requested of the minister and I formerly wrote to him about this and also spoke in Parliament not too long ago and I can assure you that there are a lot of people on the lathe side of politics who do value community television I think one of the points I'm taking from this forum is we need to let you know a bit more we need to let you know a bit more than we're valued we also have quite a few people who have you know large social-media followings I think it's incumbent on us to promote community television wherever possible as well so and thank you also for your long and ongoing service to the sector I think on behalf of all the members of the channel 31 family Michele who would love to thank you not only because you enthusiastically accepted our invitation to come and talk to us but when I asked you you know we say jold one hour you said I'll stay for as long as you want me that's another indication of a person that has been a volunteer like ours and this is where the empathy comes from see see head of the set of Ministry of multiculturalism so some of the questions we ask the bad cultural diversity were understood very quickly so we appreciate having members in Parliament that really understand what the community and those who elected them want them to do so thank you very much hopefully you will surprise us sometime in the new year with a position paper that makes it crystal clear that you cannot support community broadcasting by supporting just community radio you need to do both we're very supportive of what the government has done for community radio we wanted to consider the other side of community broadcasting community television thank you very much Michelle and all the best tomorrow so much thank you thanks for having me and just finally to wind up I'd like to thank the volunteers both here and back at base that have given their time tonight to take this live to the world via Facebook so thank you Cheers stick around for a drink [Music]

Channel: Joga Bonito

Views: 15,634

Rating: 4.6884737 out of 5

Keywords: North Community TV | First Forum Discussion

Id: H79iJPmsg20

Length: 78min 13sec (4693 seconds)

Published: Sun Jun 28 2020