Is Gay the New Black? Voddie Baucham - Unlocking the Mysteries of Genesis

well good afternoon let me say that it is indeed a great privilege and an honor for me to be here I have liked like many of you like most of you perhaps even all of you I have been blessed over the years and enriched over the years by the preaching and teaching that has come from this pulpit and I'm grateful I'm always humbled when I'm here because dr. MacArthur started pastoring this church the year I was born and and you know I was I was born here in Los Angeles and so I always feel like there's this you know this unique bond between us at least from my end you know and so I'm always grateful I'm to be here I'm grateful for our ICR I'm grateful for the invitation to be a part of this grateful to have the opportunity to join my fellow speakers has this not been incredible over the last couple of days grateful for men who stand you know with just an unabashed commitment to the Word of God to biblical understanding of origins who do so with winsome intelligent and articulate arguments to do it in such a way that they can enrich us and deepen our understanding of these issues my assignment today was to address the importance of Genesis and the issue of education and I decided that it was really difficult to do that and so I added another layer to it to make it even more difficult to do it in the time that was allotted today I'm going to address what I believe is the most pressing cultural issue that we face today and that is the issue of same-sex marriage and it's an issue that has its roots in our understanding of origins and it is an issue that has its roots in modern American education I want to help you understand why that's so and how that is so so I want to do a few things here one is I want to help you understand how this is a Genesis issue and a Genesis one two and three issue and then secondly I want to help you understand how it is that this issue has been framed by those who are promoting this lifestyle thirdly I want you to understand how that framing has actually affected us as believers fourthly I want you to understand how the education system has been used and co-opted in order to advance this ideology and then finally if we have time I want to equip you with an apologetic response I'm gonna say what dr. MacArthur said on last night I don't see how we get through all of this but let's get started and see where and uh amen all right let's get started this is a cover article in The Advocate from a few years ago gay is the new black and that's the line of argumentation that has been most successful for same-sex marriage advocates this line of argumentation that sees this issue as the the latest issue in the civil rights struggle well I'm here today to tell you that it's not like being black not in any way shape form or fashion and this is not a civil rights issue let's look first at what Genesis teaches about marriage we'll just look at two verses in Genesis 2 therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife they shall become one flesh the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed notice the categories here we have man we have father mother we have man wife man or wife man wife it is clear here in Genesis chapter 2 that marriage is to be understood as a relationship between the two corresponding halves of humanity between men and women it is clear that marriage is not only to be understood as a relationship between the two corresponding halves of humanity but marriage is also to be understood within the context of families that procreate or that have the potential for procreation or that categorically allow for procreation also if we look at this other one flesh these two become one flesh this idea of a one flesh Union is about the corresponding complimentary make up of men and women it is clear from a biological perspective how men and women are to unite in a one flesh Union and how that one flesh Union bears fruit which is further evidence so if you just if you know nothing if you know nothing about the way that human beings are supposed to be mated with one another you just look at them and you get a pretty good clue then several months later you get a bonus clue that says yep that was how it was supposed to happen and so we know this we know this from Genesis this is this is very important it's also one of these issues where we run up against our brothers and sisters with whom we disagree on the importance of reading Genesis the way that we read Genesis those who say that it's really not all that important it really doesn't matter that much answering questions about origins answering questions about whether it's six literal days or whether we have a literal Adam and Eve so on so forth that's really not all that important what matters is the cross okay who died on the cross Jesus um what exists say about this matthew 19:3 through six pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking is it lawful to divorce one's wife for any cause he answered have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female and said therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and fold fast to his wife and the two shall become one flesh so they are no longer two but one flesh what therefore God has joined together let not man separate so Jesus teaching on divorce is rooted in his understanding of Genesis his understanding of Genesis is rooted in a literal reading of Genesis chapters 1 2 & 3 so when we are to understand not just sin and redemption and the cross but when we are to understand marriage where marriage comes from what marriage is for Jesus himself argues hermeneutical II that we can only understand marriage properly when we understand Genesis properly and when we understand Genesis properly we read Genesis literally in its normal sense these were two literal people these were not just two representatives these were two literal people they were the two first people who were created and it's from these two individuals that we get our understanding of what marriage is we also understand the purpose of marriage from Genesis even in Genesis we understand that marriage has the purpose of procreation excuse me the purpose of procreation illustration and sanctification we get this even in Genesis we understand that there is a procreative purpose this be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth Adams not going to do that by himself he needs II for that we understand the idea of illustration this is a picture this is a picture of the triune God who has existed for eternity in Union and unison with himself in the Godhead God the Father Son the Holy Spirit in perfect unity and perfect harmony the son eternally proceeding from the father or are eternally begotten of the father and the spirit eternally proceeding from the father and the son makes man in His image and woman proceeds from the side of man and from their union proceeds children we understand that this is an illustration it's a picture of who God is we also understand this idea of sanctification that there is a holiness in marriage that the man and woman are naked and they're not ashamed sin enters into the world and the man and the woman are ashamed of their nakedness one of the funniest things the whole Bible did that I mean Jesus is three I just can't read it without just busting my side first you know God shows up and Adam runs and hides behind a tree can you see me in his second you know where were you oh okay okay see well all right wait okay okay okay see what happened was you okay you came in and I was in and out here because I was because I was because I was naked and then the greatest question probably in the whole Bible who told you you were naked because you've been naked the whole time bro you ate from the tree didn't you you ate from the tree sinners and guilt and shame enters and so this violation of this one flesh Union comes because of sin so we understand even from Genesis the purpose is marriage so what's wrong with homosexuality a number of things but just a few in this context number one it's a violation of the created order it's a violation of the created order it's not how we remained secondly it denounces procreation categorically it denounces procreation categorically and I say categorically because you know the homosexual lobby they try to be slick or are you saying that people who are beyond childbearing years shouldn't get married no because categorically they are still the two corresponding parts of humanity that produce children and produce a family that is designed to raise rear and protect children so categorically they're still in the same ballpark even if they don't have children thirdly it blasphemes the illustration it blasphemes the illustration this is especially true when we understand the illustration of Christ and his bride the church and then finally it denies the very need for sanctification because it takes what God calls sinful and calls it righteous that God calls this an abomination and we instead call it righteous it's the only by the way for which God destroyed cities with fire and brimstone it's unique its unique it's not like other sins it's unique not all sins are called abominations homosexuality is unique in that regard very few sins in that category and not all sins whether ended in God destroying twin cities with fire and brimstone it's unique in that regard not all sins are talked about in the Bible like in Romans 1 as having a penalty in the flesh homosexuality is it's unique in that regard okay what about this issue of Education so again we we understand there and we'll talk about this more that our understanding of Genesis is crucial to our understanding of marriage and it's crucial to our understanding of homosexuality and it's and it's inappropriateness but what about this issue of education how do we make this connection let me just give you let me just give you one example Arne Duncan is the Secretary of Education for the United States and unless you think that Arne Duncan was was brought up to be the Secretary of Education because of his skills as an education secretary when he was the Secretary of Education in Illinois before he came to Washington DC only 83% of eighth graders couldn't read at grade level and only 87% of eighth graders couldn't do math at grade level and only 77% of eighth graders couldn't write at grade level and only 84% of eighth graders couldn't do science at grade level that's all he was horrible but he was innovative by the way here's what's more astonishing he did this by spending a modest ten thousand five hundred and fifty five dollars per year per student now we homeschool our children so I just sort of a strap extrapolated that and we got four who are schooling right now and so you know that would be like us spending forty two thousand two hundred and twenty dollars on the education of de for children that were educating at home right now give me that I'll do better than he did in Chicago I guarantee you all right and everybody's always hollering it's a money issue no it's not no it's not that's a perverse amount of money to spend on education perverse doesn't cost that much by the way home educators outperform public and private school errs and spend an average of less than $600 per student per year money is not the answer money is not the answer so what was this all about well he started Chicago's Annenberg challenge which was one of the innovative Marxist programs that was established there in Chicago by the way Bill Ayers and Barack Obama served together on the board of the Annenberg challenge he endorsed establishing the Chicago's social justice high schools pride campus what's significant about that it was Chicago's first government high school for the promotion and reinforcement of the sodomite lifestyle it was a gay campus was a gay campus then there's a guy Kevin Ginny's who's Kevin Jennings what he's a founder of listen the gay lesbian straight Education Network his goal through listen was to have Gay Straight Alliance in every school in America virtually every school district in America has gay straight alliances in them but then he developed another brilliant strategy his strategy was to introduce a program called Safe Schools it's an anti bullying curriculum or at least that's what it goes by it's actually a pearl homosexual curriculum designed to indoctrinate school children toward the homosexual lifestyle what does this have to do with secretary Duncan secretary duncan brought Kevin Jennings to Washington to be the Safe Schools czar to federalize his pro-homosexual curriculum for all school districts in these United States of America this is Error not everywhere here were that's beyond everywhere okay it's air we're not there is no escaping but here's the question why blackness why attach this to blackness why try to make the civil rights argument Mitch in that article in The Advocate The Advocate is a promo sexual magazine I would recommend that you not go get a copy just because just you just I would recommend you not do that to yourself it's it's it's vile but listen to what the Ark author Michael Dunn any road we have no natural allies and therefore cannot rely on the assistance of any group we have only tactical allies people who do not want barbarous things done to us because they fear the same things may someday be done to them it's the only thing that they can rely on he says all we've got to rely on is to have people think that they need to protect us so that they are not next Russell Kirk and hunter Matson will talk about them more later but listen to this to suggest in public that homosexuality might be chosen is to open the can of worms labeled moral choice and sin and give the religious intransigence a stick to beat us with straights must be taught excuse me straights must be taught that it is as natural for some persons to be homosexual as it is for others to be heterosexual wickedness and seduction have nothing to do with it and since no choice is involved gayness can be no more blame worthy than straightness I want you to notice that this is an argument from origins this is an argument based upon their understanding of the nature of man this is why Genesis matters they're arguing that this is the way we were made or this is the way that we have evolved and therefore there is no morality associated with it then this is a dangerous statement to make and and suppose you know we can we can say that I have a genetic predisposition toward violence does that make it okay because we can prove that I have a genetic predisposition if I have a genetic predisposition toward drunkenness does that make it okay officer pulls me over sir you've been drinking ahh so far I don't even know sir you want to get out of the car okay but before I do you should need to know I got that drunk gene oh oh sir I'm sorry please leave on your way in fact it is as simple as a matter of the odds one in ten as to who turns out gay and who straight each heterosexual must be led to realize that he might easily as easily have been born homosexual himself by the way the one in ten number in their book they acknowledge that there's nothing to support this number other than debunked Kinsey research and we know we know when they know that Kenzie's research is not reliable the most widely accepted study on sexual practice in the United States is the national health and social life survey and according to that research 2.8 percent of males and 1.4 percent of females identify themselves as gay lesbian or bisexual so somewhere between 1 and 3 percent not 10% somewhere between 1 and 3 percent who are the key exponents of this gay equals black ideology several people one obviously homosexual activists secondly black civil rights leaders and they have to be black civil rights leaders because the homosexual community knew that they had to have black people as cover because membership has its privileges there's certain things that I can say that you can't I mean I don't write the rules okay I'm just singing in fact that's one of the reasons that people don't want people who look like me talking about this issue because other people they just say well you just thought you're just a bigot you're just a racist bigot and with me they just go well you just I do not like the race card but if you got one judges judges are joining the frame business and political leaders and even religious leaders who are very important in this process let's look at these and some will pay a little more attention to for the sake of time there's a book after the ball the subtitle is how America will overcome its fear and hatred of gays in the decade of the 90s two Harvard professors Russell Kirk and Hunter Matz and I've already quoted them earlier one was a professor in the area of psychology and the other in marketing and they wrote this book in 1989 in 1988 there was a meeting of 104 leading homosexual activists and they strategized asked to how they could change the way people viewed homosexuals and homosexuality in 1989 this book was published and it if you read it today it reads like history you-you-you-you can't believe that it was actually published in 1989 the moment listen to what they say this is them in the book all this is them aids though a loose cannon is a cannon indeed as cynical as it may seem aids gives us a chance however brief to establish ourselves as a victimized minority legitimately deserving of America's special protection and care this therefore is the question and the challenge how can we surmount our insurmountable opportunity how can we maximize the sympathy and minimize the fear how given the horrible hand that AIDS has dealt us can we best play it how do we take advantage of the AIDS crisis never never let a crisis go to waste the method the campaign we outline and after the ball though complex depends centrally upon a program of unabashed propaganda firmly grounded in long-established principles of psychology and advertising the two fields of these Harvard professors who wrote the book propaganda by the way this is what they say about propaganda the characteristics the three characteristics distinguished propaganda from other modes of communication and continue or contribute to its sinister reputation again these are the authors writing their program is a program of propaganda and now they're telling you why propaganda has such a bad reputation just a few things one it relies on emotional manipulation - it uses lies like one in ten and three it's subjective and one-sided this is their strategy in emotional manipulation lies and subjective one-sided information tell our side of the story as movingly as possible in the battle for hearts and minds effective propaganda nodes enough to put its best foot forward this is what our own media campaign must do and in 89 they outline the media campaign what do they want to do in their media campaign three things desensitizing jamming and conversion by the way these are the three steps to brainwashing these are these are the three things that they wanted to do the this is the way that they wanted people to change the way they thought this is the way they wanted to get people like us off of a Genesis oriented understanding of origins and their consequences to another understanding of origins and their consequences desensitizing what does that look like to desensitize straights to gays and gayness inundate them in a continuous flood of gay-related advertising presented in the least offensive fashion possible if straights can't shut off the shower they may at least eventually get used to being wet desensitizing tell the truth you see a gay character on a show you don't even get offended anymore it's just there which is so used to it how movies TV shows commercials outed actors and athletes these are the wings that you desensitize get people used to it by the way in the movies the homosexual character has to be the best-dressed most intelligent wittiest and funniest character in the movie and in the television shows they have to be that now when you get popular people like actors who come out that's okay but when you get an athlete to come out this is even more important this is why when you get an NBA basketball player to come out the President of the United States congratulate him this is why when Michael Sam comes out before the NFL Draft it is national news everywhere you can think of why because these are the images that must be put forward for this particular propaganda campaign campaign and please notice that the White House spoke out in both of those instances and in support of both of those instances why is that important the athlete angle is really important because of jamming desensitizing doesn't matter we just want you to be exposed jamming requires a particular kind of exposure accused religious people gays can use talk to muddy the moral waters that is to undercut the rational rationalizations that justify religious bigotry and to jam some of its psychic rewards portray anti-gay institutions as antiquated and backwards and badly out of step with the times and with the latest findings of psychology another thing you do as far as jamming you want us to understand what jamming is jamming works when you take two contradictory images and juxtaposed it and so Christian people hate the idea of the sieze and skinheads and the KKK so what you do is you portray people who were against same-sex marriage as being akin to Nazis skinheads and the KKK since nobody wants to be accused of being a Nazi a skinhead of the KKK eventually nobody's going to want to be accused of being anti same-sex marriage this is Jamie this is why in your average Sunday sermon from a pastor that deals with homosexuality the first third of it will be apologizing imagine this on a Sunday morning from a church in our church we're gonna address the issue of adultery but I don't want you to be alarmed I am NOT here to bash adulterers I love adulterers Jesus loves adulterers I have friends who are adulterers and I believe that our church needs to be open and accepting toward adulterers and I want you to be right that just feels wrong doesn't it but every time a pastor goes to preach on homosexuality we expect that to be up front why because we've been jammed that's why we've been jammed it has been successful that's why the most owners sin that you could imagine from a scriptural perspective has us apologizing for saying what God says about it and so out of step with psychology what psychology proves this stuff yeah because everybody knows that that's how people are born right we have the love a brain study you know Bailey Bailey and pillared twin study we have Hamer's X chromosome study you know we've got Saavik pheromone study us of course I mean all of these things by the way none of these things none of these things none of these things has proven a genetic connection to homosexuality and even if it did it wouldn't matter do you realize that there is nothing that proves that people are homosexual how do you know how do you know a person is homosexual the only way you know is if they tell you but there's no way to prove it there's not even any way to prove that that category of people actually exists as a category other than just a behavior there's no way to prove it how do you produce your blood test how do you prove it you can't you can't but everybody assumes that it just is and we assume and we don't even question people when they say well you know as young as I can remember when I was a little boy when I was a little girl I knew I knew folks that's not true when they were that young that weren't even sexualized they didn't know anything and here's the great irony on the one hand we say we need to stop raising our children to believe that just because a boy plays with a doll or a girl wants to play with football that that somehow means that they're gay and on the other hand they go I knew since I was little that I got how did you know you weren't sexual well cuz I used to want to play with the stuff that wait a minute how do you get to have it both ways on the one hand we say this doesn't mean that and on the other hand we say I know I've been this my whole life because of this meaning that do you follow this it's completely illogical nobody knew when they were a little kid that they were whatever sexually they didn't even understand that sexually they was still at that phase where you know they'd be walking around and if they were in the bathroom and a person of the opposite sex came around every behind hey how come they got that when you got nine kids man I just you see it you see don't worry about it son yeah conversion the last step in this process both the sensitization and jamming though extremely useful are mere prelude to our highest though necessarily long-range goal which is conversion it isn't enough that anti-gay bigots should become confused about us or even indifferent to us we are safest in the long run when they can actively when we can actively make them like us they have a whole section in their book on the love the sinner hate the sin mentality they despise that they despise that makes them want to strangle us that's not good enough because you're calling it sin that's not good enough listening to this please don't confuse conversion with political subversion by conversion we actually mean something far more profoundly threatening to the American Way of life without which no truly sweeping social change can occur we mean that we mean conversion of the average Americans emotions minds and will through a plan psychological attack in the form of propaganda fed to the nation via the media and the schools must get them away from a Genesis understanding of maleness and femaleness in fact we can't even talk about maleness and femaleness we can't even talk about sexes we have to talk about genders folks people have sexes nouns have genders hey man what about black civil rights leaders boy at the time Julian Bond former head of the n-double a-c-p african-americans were the only Americans who were enslaved for two centuries but we were far from the only Americans suffering discrimination then and now sexual disposition parallels race in other words gay is the new black Coretta Scott King widow of the late dr. Martin Luther King banning same-sex marriage is a form of gay bashing okay is the new black it's not just on the left it's also on the right Michael Steele former chair of the Republican National Committee in GQ magazine oh no I don't think I've ever really subscribed to that view that you can turn it on and off like a water tap I think that there's a whole lot that goes into the makeup of an individual that you just can't simply say or like tomorrow morning I'm going to stop being gay it's like saying tomorrow morning I'm going to stop being black in other words gay is the new black again we could go on but for the sake of time let's move to judges and the courts they've joined the fray I'm not a lawyer I don't play one on TV but I can read and that's all you need to be able to do to understand the problem here California Supreme Court our state now recognizes that an individual's capacity to establish a loving and long-term committed relationship with another person and responsibly to care for and raise children does not depend on the individual sexual orientation and more generally that an individual's sexual orientation like a person's race or gender does not constitute a legitimate basis upon which to deny or withhold legal rights we therefore conclude that in view of the substance and significance of the fundamental constitutional right to form a family relationship I just still can't find that one the California Constitution properly must be interpreted to guarantee this basic civil right to all Californians whether gay or heterosexual and the same-sex couples as well as opposite sex couples there it is it's it's akin to blackness it's the same as blackness by the way based on what based on what evidence on one of those studies that we talked about earlier there is no proof there is no evidence this is made up out of whole cloth this is a just cuz we say so argument from the California Supreme Court political leaders President Barack Obama while we have come a long way since the Stonewall Riots in 1969 we still have a lot of work to do too often the issue of LGBT rights is exploited by those seeking to divide us okay but at its core this issue is about who we are as Americans yes this is true here's what I want you to understand the Stonewall Riots in 1969 they are often spoken of as though they are part of this great civil rights struggle you need to understand that the Stonewall Riots in 69 were about the police who broke down who broke in on some bath houses where illicit homosexual sexuality was going on and in many instance underaged boys were being victimized by and the homosexual community was angry because their party was broken up and that our president says is akin to marching on okay all right his LGBT strategy will move on business leaders Steve Jobs Sergey Brin enough said religious leaders for the sake of time I'm telling y'all we don't have time for all these things I'm trying to just all right religious leaders listen to this from Brian McLaren talking about homosexuality perhaps we need a five year moratorium on making pronouncements in the meantime we'll practice prayerful Christian dialogue listening respectfully disagree agreeably when decisions need to be made they'll be admittedly provisional we'll keep our ears attuned to scholars and biblical studies theology ethics psychology genetics sociology and related fields then in five years if we have clarity we will speak if not we'll set another five years for ongoing reflection after all many important issues in church history took centuries to figure out not that's not true maybe this moratorium would help us to resist the winds of doctrine blowing furiously from the right from the left and the right so we can patiently wait for the wind of the Spirit to set our course cuz you know he just not clear in the Bible she and Robinson first day episcopal bishop he was an open open homosexual we know that but did you know that he was all but also an admitted alcoholic and that he had abandoned his wife and children for his gay lover all of these things disqualify him from being a bishop but because he was openly gay none of that mattered so what about their strategy here's where the rubber begins to meet the road fleet am i supposed to stop i got minutes here of how many minutes i'm going but i got okay alright listen listen okay okay their strategy their strategy we're strategy I'm trying to be respectful y'all and I'm but I'm trying to get you this information argument ad hominem this is the argument against the man this is their strategy and this is those common strategy when you get into a debate with people about this issue they can't make a logical argument so they make an argument against you this is how kids argue they start losing an argument and it's well well we'll say you ugly that means I got nothing left okay listen to this from representative Barney Frank I wouldn't want the homosexual marriage issue to go to the United States Supreme Court now because that homophobe Antonin Scalia has too many votes on this current court speaking about a sitting Supreme Court justice do you notice that when you disagree on the issue of same-sex marriage it is not your opinion that's wrong it's you you are intolerant you are a homophobe it's your character you as a person you as a human being have been judged not your position I want you to notice this that the way this is discussed is always in terms of ad hominem attacks you as a person don't deserve to be in this discussion question begging logic now begging the question and now this gets all over me you watch the news and other places and people use begged the question when they mean raised the question and they'll say well that begs the question what about so-and-so actually that's not true to beg the question is a logical fallacy in an argument to beg the question means to make an argument based on facts that you haven't proven so if you and I are debating as to whether or not I beat my dog and during the debate you say now when you beat your dog do you use your fists or do you know wait a minute you haven't proven that I beat my dog right you're begging the question that's what that means all right so this is how they argue one way they argue is this they say homosexuality is N is as immutable as ethnicity you've heard that right it's immutable it's just like ethnicity it's just like your race that's not true by the way first Corinthians 6:9 2:11 do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God do not be deceived neither they sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who practice homosexuality nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor revilers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God and such were some of you but you were washed you were sanctified you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the spirit of God that's 2,000 year old evidence that people stopped being homosexual 2000 year old evidence you say what you want about Michael Jackson he did not stop being black selling homosexuals are denied a fundamental right when they are not allowed to marry I had the privilege of testifying before the Senate in Texas when they were debating whether or not to allow a vote to occur to change our Constitution and there was one black senator who was using race in a committee to stop the thing from going to a vote and so I got a phone call from some folks who said would you come up and testify before the Senate so I went up and testified before the Senate and anyway well we ended up getting that done but one of the fundamental things that people just sort of let slide is this idea homosexuals are being denied a fundamental right it's not true folks homosexuals can marry listen to this this is from a newspaper article I am married with two children three years ago I found out my husband was having an affair with another man he still lives at home and continues his relationship with this man I don't have it in me to throw him out and get on with my life I'm afraid of bringing up my children alone huh sounds like there's some homosexuality and he's married how about this one can you forget this headline a married man Thomas Beatie who used to be a woman and says that he is pregnant and will give birth to a baby girl in July I'll never forget that headline guess what there's some homosexuality and he's married when you go to get a marriage license when you go to get a marriage license nobody says here's a test to see whether or not you're homosexual because if you are you can't get a marriage license why because we don't discriminate in that way homosexuals can't get married by the way the Iowa Supreme Court agrees with me listen to this it is true the marriage statute does not expressly prohibit gay and lesbian persons from marrying boom that ought to be it we had a done right here the statute does not discriminate the statute does not discriminate it does however require that if they marry it must be to someone of the opposite sex same for me which means there's no discrimination please tell me you understand this there is no discrimination the same law that applies to me applies to everyone else and so when people say that there is this discrimination in the law they are lying the law is treating everyone equally it's treating everyone the same yeah but I don't want to do that okay whatever listen we won't read the rest of this statement but just basically you understand their argument Iowa is the Iowa Supreme Court is basically saying because they don't want to marry somebody of the opposite sex it's really not a right at all so here's the reasoning homosexuals have the right to marry they do not desire to exercise the right as it currently exists therefore they do not have the right and the law must be changed right there's the syllogism right how about we just changed I don't know the first line pacifists have the right to join the military they do not desire to exercise the right as it currently exists therefore they do not have the right and the law must be changed which means we now have to establish a military that doesn't fight so that pacifists can enjoy the right like everyone else does airtight irrefutable and yet we won't make the argument why because we've been desensitized jammed and converted thirdly it's wrong to pass legislation that takes fundamental rights away from or discriminates against a group of people and in making that argument they're basically saying when two people love each other they should be allowed to get married all laws are discriminatory even this statement when two people when we discriminate against thirteen year olds Amen somebody therefore even what the homosexuals want is discriminatory when two people we discriminate against polygamy and polyamory therefore even what the homosexuals want is discriminatory when two people we discriminate against bestiality and zoo arrestee therefore even what they want is discriminatory when two people love a lot of people get married for some reason other than love now we're discriminating against them when two people love each other sometimes you love this person in that person but you love that person more now we're discriminating against them so even the premise of this argument refutes the idea that you can't make laws that discriminate because even the premise of this argument is discriminatory for the sake of time let me move forward and let me just get to the end of this what do we do with this couple things here's what we need to understand we have to understand that we have truth on our side and we also have logic on our side we also have to understand that the other side doesn't care about truth and doesn't care about our logic but that must not stop us from making our arguments and from making our arguments scripturally here's the other thing that I wanted to point out there's this genetic fallacy argument and the genetic fallacy basically is this you reject an argument because of where it comes from and this is why many Christians are trying to find a way to argue against homosexual marriage that doesn't involve the Bible here's what that looks like to me I am a knight and I approach another Knight and I draw my sword and the other night looks at me and says I do not believe in your sword and so I put my sword back and I then give him a lecture on metallurgy to try to convince him of what will happen if I would use my sword on that's ridiculous No I walk up I do not believe in your sword do you believe now or shall I cut you some more here's the other problem with that here's what they're saying you can't bring the Bible to bear on this argument because you cannot force your religious beliefs on other people huh let's analyze that a couple of different ways number one you're saying that people who really believe their religion have no place in our society I reject that premise secondly you are saying that it is wrong for me to try to force my beliefs on you when in fact you are trying to force your beliefs on me I reject that premise thirdly you're actually arguing that I should be loving and kind and accepting toward you which you get from my Bible but don't acknowledge so what you're basically saying is you believe your Bible therefore you don't belong in the discussion I'm making an argument for things that are found in your Bible but because I don't believe your Bible I should be listened to that dog will hunt we can't allow that folks and then finally there's this one there's this one and I'll say this one I'll be done here's the last issue this issue of yeah will you pick and choose you run all over to Leviticus and these other places and you talk about an abomination but then you know you're leet shelf shellfish and you know and you'll cut the edges of your beards and you'll sew different seeds in your fields and certainly anybody anybody anybody anybody heard this anybody heard this and then for most Christians they just start gonna Bob let me help you first of all let me bring this up a couple of things to keep in mind the first thing to keep in mind is this if you want to go back to Leviticus 18 one of the things that you'll find is the proper treatment of your neighbor and one of the things that you're arguing for in our discussion it's that I treat you properly as my neighbor which is found in Leviticus 18 but you also don't believe that homosexuality is wrong which is also found in Leviticus 18 so before I answer your question the first thing I want to show you is that you are picking and choosing from Leviticus 18 just like I am but the difference is I know I'm picking and choosing and I know why there are three types of laws in the Bible there is moral law that is forever binding on all people in all places in all times we had this summarized for us in the Ten Commandments there are also civil laws these civil laws were for the nation of Israel as a nation in the ancient Near East these laws expired with the nation of Israel but they are still of general equity because they're based on those moral laws certainly we had the ceremonial laws these ceremonial laws were laws that were designed to do two things number one identify Israel as God's unique people worshipping Him uniquely in their context and secondly to point forward to the person and work of Christ so when you talk about cutting the edge of the beard you're actually talking about ceremonial law and Israel not being like the nations around them when you're talking about their dietary laws you're talking about Israel not being like the nations around them when you talk about civil laws you are right we are not bound by those as they are but they are of general equity this is why in our own laws we refer to things like negligent homicide which in Leviticus would say if your ox gore's someone you're accountable for what your ox has done you don't have an ox but you have other things that can hurt people so we still had that same principle which is based on our upholding of the sixth commandment so the reason I pick and choose from the Old Testament is because number one New Testament writers do that and teach me how to do that number two Christ has come and we are under the New Covenant however he has fulfilled the whole law and he has actually enabled me to keep the moral law the moral law hasn't gone anywhere so it is still wrong for you to murder me or me to murder you it is still wrong to commit adultery it is still wrong to steal all of these things remain so it is because I understand how the Bible is written and I use the Bible carefully that I don't just pick and choose according to what I like which is the exact opposite of what you were doing so I have a better question for you you wanted to know why I pick and choose certain parts of the Bible I can explain it to you in painstaking detail and it gets through an authority that's higher than me but what I want to know is this why is it that you get to pick and choose from the Bible and you don't know why and you don't know how and whatever you choose is what you happen to want at the moment and what's better for our society people who decide what's right based upon what they want at the moment or people who understand and recognize that there is a law higher than themselves and who submit and subject themselves to that law you answer that for me and then we can go back to our discussion on same-sex marriage listen there's much more that could be said on this we've covered what I want to cover in this I hope you understand a few things here and I don't know went very quickly I hope you understand that this is a Genesis issue I hope you understand that that this is a question of origins I hope you understand that this is an educational issue do you understand that desensitizing and jamming and conversion and that this propaganda campaign is rooted and grounded and not only the media but also in education I hope you get this I hope you understand this thirdly I hope you understand that the arguments that are being made in favor of same-sex marriage are actually illogical unfounded arguments that can should and must be refuted by us as believers and then finally I hope you understand that ultimately what this is about is not just getting our way politically this is ultimately about us seeing our neighbor in a house that's on fire and us loving him enough to not only say get out but if necessary go get him and drag him out that's what love does so don't let anybody tell you that it's not loving if you stand flat-footed and speak the truth about this issue of homosexuality what's not loving is to look someone in the eye when God says they are in jeopardy of an eternity in hell and merely wink and nod at their sin because you're afraid of being called names speak the truth Saints

Channel: Your Origins Matter

Views: 486,719

Rating: 4.7269812 out of 5

Keywords: origins, Bible, faith, Christianity, Genesis, worldview, Voddie Baucham

Id: ZkL3lT95vOU

Length: 58min 0sec (3480 seconds)

Published: Mon Nov 24 2014

Reddit Comments

[u/grayfoxjls]

So what is everyone's take on Baucham's stance on Patriarchy?

I'm referencing this quote... “A lot of men are leaving their wives for younger women because they yearn for attention from younger women. And God gave them a daughter who can give them that. And instead they go find a substitute daughter….you’ve seen it, we’ve all seen it. These old guys going and finding these substitute daughters.”

[u/[deleted]]

Haven't watched it yet, but it's Voddie Baucham and he's got a Mac, so I already love it.