Michael Peterson The Staircase Body Language Analysis (2021)

i can vividly remember finding kathleen you're kidding me that's it that was the last i saw kathleen alive no she was alive when i found it it was it was fun the funniest parts every one of them we grabbed had a different and we we filmed their faces so everyone had a different expression okay ready yeah yep i'm scott rouse i'm a body language expert and analyst and i train law enforcement in the military in interrogation and body language and i created the number one online body language course bodylanguagetactics.com with greg hartley mark i'm mark bowden i'm an expert in human behavior and body language helping people all over the world to stand out when trust and gain credibility every time they communicate including some of the leaders of the g7 chase hey i'm chase houston did 20 years in the u.s military and also published five books on behavior profiling influence and persuasion including this one right here the six minute x-ray rapid behavior profiling i trained intelligence agencies and the general public in behavior skills greg greg hartley i'm a former army interrogator interrogation instructor resistance to interrogation instructor i've written 10 books on body language and behavior put together this course the body language tactics.com with scott rouse and i spend most of my time in corporate america or wall street excellent now if you like what we're doing if this is the first time you're here please subscribe before we start this uh recording this today we found out we have over 200 000 subscribers went over the 200 000 subscriber bar our point and each one of the subscribers those are panelists so if you're a subscriber you're a panelist now and those are the people we listen to when it comes to doing to choosing what we uh have every week the the videos that we that we choose so if you're a subscriber you're a panelist go on there and tell us what you want to see those are the ones we look at now the guy we're going to take a look at today is michael peterson and he's from uh the netflix special the staircase as we go through this what we're gonna do is we're gonna show you these uh short videos and we're gonna tell you the body language we see in those that's it we don't care if this guy's innocent we don't care if this guy's guilty we're switzerland we go right down in the middle we don't care could not possibly care less so keep that in mind as we go through this and we tell you what we're seeing and explain what those things we're seeing mean when it comes to human behavior all right so good yep scott one thing we said we would do is backstory for the case very quickly just a few seconds he was convicted in 2003 of killing his wife after eight years in prison he got a new trial because the judge ruled that prosecution witness had been misleading he took an alford plea which is i'm saying that i'm innocent but the evidence is likely to make a jury find me guilty so i take that as a plea and then he was released based on time served his wife was an executive at nortel he's written five novels so he's a storyteller by trade and he's worked for a newspaper that's your backstory excellent here we go term 9-1-1 where's your market 18-10 cedar street please what's wrong my wife had an accident she's still breathing what kind of accident show downstairs she's still being police can't she's conscious is she conscious no she's not conscious how many stairs did he fall down i mean he's prepared how many stairs calm down sir calm down no 15 20 i don't know please get somebody here right away please okay somebody's dispatching the ambulance while i ask you questions greg what do you got yeah so in the true crime workshop we talk about this extensively and chase is going to talk about this as well but there are a lot of studies around what makes a good 911 call and whether a person is actually the killer or whether they're actually reporting a crime ai will eventually take this over and start picking this up in phone calls but you're after help you're after telling the condition of the victim you're trying to explain as much as you can to get help for that person the minute you start storytelling or creating alibi there's a problem so if you listen to him he's got all the hysterical behavior all the body language that you expect from that however he starts to tell a story she fell down the stairs and he doesn't say what condition she's in has to be asked he seems almost like he's holding back so immediately i would jump on wait a minute something is not right here in fact i'm not going to give you the details go watch the show you'll find out a lot of what isn't right here uh scott what do you got yeah i totally agree with you this is uh these are the classic signs of someone who probably did what they're calling about a lot of things are happening here you wouldn't say get somebody here you'd say send an ambulance when things like this happen you call 9-1-1 there's been there's a problem and that you are just laser focused on that problem and when you switch your attention to the 9-1-1 call because you've got a call for help everything goes to that the world gets small and you pinpoint on that 9-1-1 call and you tell them i need help right now you don't say i need somebody get somebody here you say i need help you know then they start asking you what happened you may say my some somebody did this but the first thing you're focused on is getting help so he's acting like the call is a secondary event in this and you would think logically from a logical standpoint that would make sense there's a body i'm going to deal with this or somebody's heard i'm going to deal with this and then make the 911 call no because your brain doesn't work that way when your brain fires off your limbic system fires off and you get into fight or flight which is which you're supposed to be in during this you again laser focus on that call and getting help to that person that's all you're thinking about so that's what you're repeating and he's doing what we call the true crime workshop that's insulating he's he's he's so caught up with what's going on he's insulating himself from any questions he's just what i can't i don't know to get somebody here quickly he's insulating himself from what's going on from the uh dispatcher by make by having all these emotional things that that that he thinks he's supposed to show while he does this some calls when the person didn't do it they're actually asking for help there's almost no emotion at all in those because their their their emotions drop they're just straight ahead almost talking like they're a robot so in this case that's not what's happening it does happen in other cases where they they are uh really um dramatic and they sound dramatic and it's true and it's real they do need help but they will not talk like this guy just talk another thing is after watching after listen to this where's the mystery in this there's no once you hear this you should know automatically from from law enforcement standpoint this is your guy right there there's no question about that's why we're all so focused on this as we go through chase what do you got yeah i absolutely agree with you guys i think she says she's still breathing twice but the first thing out of his mouth in the call is there was an accident this is interesting here and i'll tell you why in just a second i don't think he's near the body at all not near the body at all because when she's asking him about the stairs it sounds like he's having to walk over there but how would he know if she isn't breathing unless he was there where the body is located because she's saying it present tense not she wasn't breathing she isn't breathing and he says please seven times in 34 seconds in the span of 34 seconds and fbai has put together great reports and other people have put together some fantastic research analyzing thousands of 9-1-1 calls there's even a checklist that i developed greg and scott have a very similar one and i'll throw that in our community board so on our channel if you click on community you can download that 911 operator checklist to see is the caller the killer and i think that was greg that's the name of the study that's not what mine's called it's actually the name of the study that we we pulled to use and we reference yeah yeah so in this are they are they trying to communicate facts are they asking for help so we saw something unusual here in his uh the urgency is there a demand for help or are they overly polite so we hear a lot of pleas doesn't no no one single one of these makes somebody guilty but when they start stacking up they start stacking them repetition of statements present in 100 of guilty callers 100 of guilty callers i repeated that on purpose hesitation was present where they could not or wouldn't answer a question they delayed answering questions with long prolonged pauses present in 93 of cases where the caller was the killer and several more which you guys can see on the community board that's all i got mark yeah lovely uh so look i think he starts off pretty well in that he immediately releases the address so you know immediately i go okay nice good on you at least we know where you are but just as you said chase the next thing he's into is my wife has had an accident so instantly i would suggest he's trying to create an alibi i mean what does it matter if it was an accident or whatever or who cares just you need help right now and that's where you should be not trying to set up how it's happened and then he becomes quite antagonistic around this because the the responder says you know how many stairs 15 20. now i think the spirit of that question is around has this person fallen a long distance or a short distance you know have they just you know tripped off the stairs and they've you know dislocated their kneecap and and their unconscious because of a dislocated kneecap easily happens very painful or have they gone a full flight of stairs and therefore we're looking at you know a broken back a broken neck all kinds of broken lips and that's the spirit of the question but he's like i don't know i don't know i mean i mean the simple answer would be she's just fallen a very short distance or she's fallen a full flight of stairs or a long way i think most people will be able to but he's already in conflict with all of this and i think we're seeing we're seeing that now the breathing pattern there uh when you're in panic what tends to happen is you're taking a big breath okay and then you'll release all the words that you're trying to trying to say if you're not speaking yeah you'll breathe rapidly but ultimately you'll be trying to get information out and you'll suck in a lot of air and you'll start to release now sometimes because you want to get your words out and you've run out of air you'll find people start talking like this because they're trying to suck in air at the same time as releasing words and so you get some odd breathing patterns there what we've got from this gentleman is breathe breathe breathe breathe breathe release breathe breathe breathe breathe breathe release so i would suggest he's performing that breathing certainly sounds rhythmically performed to me and it's buying him quite a bit of time and we have the classic there which he has that penelope pit stop uh hooded claw running from the hooded claw kind of please please hail pale we've got that long those upward um uh inflections there which are to create alarm that's what we call a primal cadence the distance between those those those notes are the primal alarm cadence that kids will kids will do on this one by the way mommy mommy mommy it's the same as you have in in uh alarms uh it's the primal cadence that we're trained with to go oh there's something bad happening he's using that primal cadence in order to alert us but i think you know right from moment one it seems totally put on now i have no idea what's happening in this story and this i've never met this guy before the first i've heard of it really is what greg has just told me there but but look what you can get out of that call even if you don't know those fbi uh statistics there even if you don't know what's happening just using some of your usual senses and sensibilities about what people are like in a pat in a panic and what you do there's a lot here that doesn't really fit in that's what i got in this one so let me add one last thing all of our regulars or panelists all of you panelists you'll recognize one thing when you go look at the show that rebecca fenton has in common there's no mention of blood she fell down the stairs not a single mention of blood go watch the video down 9-1-1 where's your market 18-10 see the street please what's wrong my wife's had an accident she's still breathing what kind of that's so downstairs she's still burning police how many stairs calm down sir calm down no that was just danger i don't know please get somebody here right away please okay somebody's dispatching the ambulance while i ask you a question it's also it's a force kill okay please quick okay ready we got his statement what do you say said you had sex with oh you're [ __ ] me four or five times where uh i don't know all the details because i was skimming through all the stuff and when i came to his you're kidding me that's what he's claiming that's what he's claiming oh my god everybody wants a piece of you jesus christ or everybody claims to have a piece of you one of the two and you have a statement yeah yeah yeah we call it send me a copy of that statement i'm dying to see that i'll get it tomorrow was it a short statement a long statement about a page in half okay and written handwritten okay he didn't indicate where this great love affair took place yeah but uh mike i cannot remember it so rather know now than later i'll say god i'll say for sure so i talked to dave about dennis and we're gonna rethink we're gonna digest the statements and then rethink as to how to approach it all right chase what do you got so these movements you see in the beginning of the video this is what i would call something like target lock there's a potential threat or threatening information and he is monitoring it as closely as possible you can see him tracking the other person here which i think is his attorney to make sure he gets as much data as possible before anything happens so he can react to the amount of data or react to what's coming out there's an immediate rise in vocal pitch which we teach anybody that teaches deception detection which doesn't technically exist we're looking at stress anybody teaches exception detection will talk about this rising vocal pitch thing i've never seen it out outside of a dennis the menace episode i haven't seen it this this great of a deviation from baseline so this is a great rise and vocal pitch example yes and as he's being told before the whole thing comes out he's doing what's called the transderivational search where his eyes are moving back and forth to pull up as many programs that he might need to deal with this as possible so did i park outside was i at a hotel did i leave dna somewhere going through as many possible scenarios as as he can and i'm going to leave some of the behavior stuff but when guilty people are being presented with verbal evidence verbal evidence they will tend to look away to process what their response is going to be innocent people when presented with verbal evidence or something bad that happened verbally they're going to lock right on and they want to know everything that you know but when guilty people are more likely to look away according to me when they're hearing some stuff that's bad and this face while shaking his head is a mirror image at the very end when he's kind of his lips go together this is a mirror image of anthony weiner and a lot of other people who had kind of got called out before the denials took place and the reason the denial did not take place right here is that the person doesn't know how much information you've got that's why you don't see a denial they want to collect a bunch of data from you before they make a denial all right greg yeah so this guy is a storyteller and you'll see him throughout this these other videos telling stories a lot of detail those kinds of things a couple of things you notice here he is forced into what i'd refer to as a death spiral of a lie and true in the true crime workshop we talk about that we talk the liar's loop it's there has to be a trigger then you fabricate your information then you deconflict it in your head then you pitch it then you defend it and that puts you back into deconflicting the pitch again well if that happens all on the spur of the moment you're going to get a hell of a lot of fight or flight and you're seeing it that pitch race there's a guy named john lovitz who made an entire career from the 80s until now by one little joke yeah yeah yeah when he would lie that was his entire career and this guy is doing it he's squealing he's his voice is raising he feigns some shock like oh i can't believe that he never denies one thing he never says not me that didn't happen his respiration increases his pitch shifts his barriers increase his blink rate is up and he breaks eye contact to the right he's not breaking eye contact to access information he's breaking eye contact to get away as if he's running there's no contempt for this in his face whatsoever and to your point chase i think any time someone is fishing to see how much you know and not just saying that didn't happen that's easy that person you should be paying attention to now you'll also see and you're going to find this through the video his request for approval is brow up in that shrill voice as that thing happens mark what do you got yeah so first of all just no denial just as you said there greg right from moment one you'd either go well that just didn't happen there's no denial and then as you say he starts fishing it's quite comic uh ultimately it's hard not to laugh throughout of that he's like a strange piece of to me amateur dramatics going on and here's why the way he goes fishing for information about what might be in this statement is he kind of uses the chris vos technique of interrogation which is just to repeat uh an element of what's been said before so there's this idea of you know there's a there's a handwritten statement a statement you know and then a little more said about it i'd like to get hold of that statement and because we get this repetition of things said we actually get comedic dialogue it's it's why it starts sounding like an episode of seinfeld because essentially if you look at seinfeld all it does is to take something that somebody just said before and repeat it with a slightly different intonation on it which again is is the chris boss way of interrogating somebody not there's anything wrong with any of that probably a great interrogation technique uh or informational technique great way to create comedy but that put together with these two uh you know performers in this strange piece of amateur dramatics it feels like they've had a number of takes at this one to it to an extent maybe maybe not um but very odd what what most comes to mind for me is the tone change on where it took place there's a whole different tone the comedic level disappears and now there's a deep tone there my guess is is that there's there's a worry that if it took place in a certain area a certain location there may be evidence around that and he wants to know do we has he said where this took place because if it takes place in a certain place i'm going to have to really create a good story around this one to get out of it there that's what i got around that scotland let me add one let me add one thing back to you mark before we hand it scott one of the things that i should have mentioned he is keenly aware of the camera here whereas in other parts of this he's telling a story and he doesn't have that when you're confronted with something or whether it's a front first time or not and you're keenly aware of the camera that can raise fight or flight in its own way so that's something for us to pay attention to as well as we go through this whole thing so sorry and i'll hand it back to you yeah so you're what you're talking about greg is extra face it's a it's a term i coined when you see extras in movies and tv shows they're sitting around like this eyebrows up and just act like nothing's going on when they talk their their illustrators are really really big and they're not they're told not to make any noise as they talk so it's really big if you'll watch the kardashians everybody in that show who's not like one of the stars of the show sitting around where they're in a restaurant or one of their friends on the couch that's going and that's extra face because you know you're being on you're on film you're being you're being videoed at that point so you're trying to put the best part of you forward and that's the face they make now when he hits this mickey mouse voice that's that i agree with you chase unbelievable that is just that is i've never seen that before never heard that before anywhere else to that level than here but when he says when he uses the explicative what happens is his chin comes down as he's saying that because he's starting he's starting to go oh no they know you know they know and mark to your point when he's the thing of the story he's got to make up he needs more information he doesn't know how like chase said he doesn't know how much information they have up to this point but he's wondering which time is this guy talking about is he talking about all the times or is he talking about one single time because what he's in now is what greg was talking about earlier when he's in what he's trying to get he's in defend so what he's done in the liar's loop is he's already he's already pitched pitching is where you actually tell the lie but he's been triggered by him saying here's this information as he gathers this information he's thinking i have to i have to come up with something and then he's deconflicting as he goes along but he's got to know what he needs to deconflict before he starts getting anything out that's why he's really not saying a whole lot other than i want to see that information not a whole lot of details about anything he's backed off because he's thinking i got to collect information i got to get as much information and mark what you're talking about is elicitation those are the techniques that that chris uses that he's talking about it in his book so it's he's he's using elicitation he doesn't realize he's doing it but he's using elicitation techniques uh to get as much information as he possibly can it's just a natural one obviously he's done since he's not doesn't know or he may know but i don't think so at this point so that's where he is he's trying to get enough information so he'll know what to defend as he goes back in all right that's what i got we're good one thing chase in this instance in most crimes probably 90 percent i made that up but let's just go with it in most crimes the person doesn't know how much you know and especially as a police officer during interrogation this video when you watch this video back again now think of how and why the bait question is so deadly effective that question that starts with is there any reason that x y and z would have seen you do this or one of your neighbors would have reported this that question is in my opinion one of the most probably top three interrogation techniques in the world the baby it separates senior interrogators from junior people who come in and blast out information that's not true and let you know they don't know anything to start with right it's the ask versus the tell yep i always add whatsoever is there anything whatsoever because that that takes it to the wall is there any possibility at all when you go through there and when you start talking about dna you know would be any reason that your dna would be in that room yeah and they start you and you say stuff like you know like your hair your eyelashes some spit when you were talking like you'd be able to find spit when they're talking those eyes will get all back and they'll start listening so yeah so that's that's a potent tool there we got his statement what do you say said you had sex with oh you're [ __ ] me four or five times where uh i don't know all the details because i was skimming through all the stuff and when i came to his you're kidding me that's what he's claiming what he's claiming oh my god everybody wants a piece of you jesus christ or everybody claims to have a piece of you one of the two you have a statement yeah yeah yeah we caught it send me a copy of that statement i'm dying to see that i'll get it tomorrow was it a short statement a long statement about a page in half okay handwritten handwritten okay he didn't indicate where this great love affair took place yeah but uh mike i cannot remember it rather know now than later i'll say god i'll say it for sure so i talked to dave about dennis and we're going to rethink we're going to digest the statements and then rethink as to how to approach it okay all right okay we're good yep yeah let's move kathleen and i were in here watching a movie i'd gone to blockbusters and rented a video and we were watching american sweethearts and i think it was probably around 11 o'clock that the uh the movie ended and we took our glasses left left the dinner plates as a matter of fact on uh there we go clean up the next day went into the kitchen we used we would talk for hours kathleen and i at nighttime would talk two three hours talk about the movie or the kids or what we were going to do and we came in here i think there was not sure we probably had another bottle that we were i know we were drinking two bottles that night uh it was a nice night i guess it was 55 60 degrees very nice night uh and i'd gone outside all right mark what do you got yeah i love it i love this so so we start with okay let's start with this um just leaving the dinner plates so we left the dinner plates there does that look like a house where anybody leaves the dinner plates overnight okay just go back and look does it look like a house where people go let's leave them just leave just leave them until the morning we've had a couple of bottles let's just leave them till the morning listen to the sound okay you can hear that sound echoing around hard surfaces which means there's very little upholstery in this place okay as he starts moving through you get that lack of upholstery you've got a lack of upholstery it means there's a lack of things to pick up dust i think you've got people here living here who don't like a mess you can see it as you go into that house no upholstery you know everything spotlessly cleaned flowers arranged you know fresh new flowers yes i know people are filming but ultimately you can see with that place the types of surfaces they are need cleaning all of the time this is so from moment one alarm bells go off for me because i go that's not true that's not true but you need it to be true for some reason for some reason you've got to make out this whole progression of story whereby these were left because they wouldn't normally be left and somebody's come in i think and gone hang on why were they why are those not washed up what happened here then there's some problem around the bottles of wine i think i think we had two bottles of wine then there's some you know mess up around there here's what i reckon i reckon there was two bottles of wine or more drunk i reckon one of those people may well have drunk uh you know more than half of that okay so so but certainly they drank more than two bottles i i would think so and i think there's some protection here around stuff being different from how it normally is and potentially some extra alcohol than usual being drunk at this time as well that's all i've got around that one chase what do you got yeah i'm going to come at this from a writer's perspective because i know you guys are gonna clobber the heck out of the behavior stuff i want you to notice the shift from past to past perfect and what past perfect means is it's the difference between i pulled my car into the driveway and i had pulled my car into the driveway so when you're reading most fiction books they're written in past tense john did this john went through the door but then when that past tense has to go into past tense again it has to go into what's called past perfect john thought back to the day he had been at the whatever burger king that's past perfect so what we have here is a first a past perfect statement i had gone to blockbusters so we know he's one of the people who puts an s at the end of store names like krogers we know he's one of those probably not relevant then back to past we watched then it's back to a suggestive statement we would sit and talk he didn't say they sat and talked he did not ever say that they sat there and talked he said we would do these things so that's like if i said scott what'd you do on wednesday night after you left the office and you and scott said well i usually go straight home that's not an answer so this is what's called a suggestive statement it did not answer anything didn't explain what happened that night at all it's talking about we would do these things then it goes back to past when it says we had some wine explained a few things in past tense and then back to past perfect right as he's walking out that back door listen close he says and then we had gone i had gone outside i had gone outside and those are very interesting to note just when did it switch to perfect and when did it switch to regular past and when things are not in full passed or full past perfect there's a big problem but please keep in mind that one of our limitations uh watching this is we are unaware of how the questions were specifically posed to him and whether or not they were surgically crafted to yank some certain response out of him for the camera so we as far as i know uh none of us none of us know that so we'll keep going around the circle greg well what's funny chase is we're going down the same path very similar path what i'm doing is looking for a baseline this guy is a storyteller what we're doing is getting his cadence here because he does tell stories and because he's written five books about war and vietnam and korea and those things he talks a lot in past perfect he talks a lot in past i'm gonna run down the list we were watching i had gone we were watching until the movie ended there's you know it's a permanent thing we took glasses we left dinner plates we would talk we came we had we were drinking i think it's the way he talks and we're gonna see it throughout here i think the way he talks is things that happen all the time would happen like the dogs would be here those kinds of things are this is how things happen actions that he actually took we were drinking i think he uses then a noun instead of instead of actually using the verb and so i think we're seeing a pattern of a guy who is prepared and he's talking not to the camera but he's talking to the person carrying that camera as if he's telling a story and this is a great opportunity for us to see something that is him kind of rattling along now the interesting piece is listen to how much detail he gives we talk about people who are small chunkers and big chunkers time event or sequence people if you ask me what i did yesterday i went to the grocery store that that's an event that's the way my brain works some people wake up and they'll tell you at 0-500 i did this 0-530 i did that 700 i did this other people will give you a sequence i got up brush my teeth and some of them will go ad nauseum to the point you want to choke yourself to death listening to them talk this guy's setting himself up as that guy so that's going to matter because now he's giving you the story as if he's writing about it in a column or as if he's writing a novel that's all i'm doing here is baselining now he's set himself up and those things that he said those are telling me the way his brain works in chase i'm with you words matter in this case the body language not so much because he's broadcasting what he wants you to hear and he's not at all nervous about the camera because it isn't catching him in a kind of impromptu thing earlier he was caught impromptu and it was a third party the camera was a third party in this case this guy's been a reporter he's done a little bit of he's been a columnist he's done a little bit of everything the camera is a person to him and he's telling a story scott what do you guys think you guys pretty much got everything i was going to cover to the to the point there but and i i'll just really quickly go through i agree with you mark the the details he's given he's given a whole lot of details there up front especially in that room you move along the details details get less and less there may have been i think we drank two bottles that that style thing but he's really relaxed where he is greg you're right because no extra face here he's just talking to the one guy or the one woman whoever it is that's there so he's more relaxed he's on his own turf and it's a great spot to get a baseline especially verbally from the way he constructs his sentences his vernacular really hasn't changed much at all because he structures what he structures story stories for a living and that's what he's doing here he's structuring something so it's really easy to understand he's not taking a whole long a whole lot of time to think about it which is very important as he goes through he does stop a couple times and pause but he doesn't pause as often as for as long as we're going to see a little in a little while as we as we move forward here but that's that's you guys pretty much nailed all that so that's that's all i got kathleen and i were in here watching a movie i'd gone to blockbusters and rented a video and we were watching american sweethearts and i think it was probably around 11 o'clock that the uh the movie ended and we took our glasses left left the dinner plates as a matter of fact on uh there we'll clean up the next day went into the kitchen we used we would talk for hours kathleen and i at night time would talk two three hours talk about the movie or the kids or what we were going to do and we came in here i think there was i'm not sure we probably had another bottle that we were i know we were drinking two bottles that night uh it was a nice night i guess it was 55 60 degrees very nice night uh and i'd gone outside all right let's move along and we were talking here for a fair amount of time and then what we would usually do on a nice night we would go down to the pool which i always you know think about the nicest place on the property i don't know if the chairs were like this or not but i mean they're probably something like this and she was we were both right here and you know the dogs would come over and um they'd we were just talking and uh finishing our drinks and then um she said i gotta go in because i've got the conference call in the morning and uh she started walking uh out that way and i stayed right here don't think i've anything special to her certainly not thinking this was the you know last time i'm going to see her i said goodnight i'll be up a little bit later and i stayed here and she walked [Applause] and the last i saw her was when i was there and she was just walking walking here that's it that was the last i saw kathleen alive no she was alive when i found her but barely all right greg what do you got yeah i'm trying to steal everybody's thunder here but we just saw a baseline now that was bad because he steps right out the door and right into a bear pit what he does is when he walks through the door now he's been meticulous with his details and she suddenly appears he doesn't say she came out he simply says and so he skipped over some time there might have been something happen mark to your point about why the dishes were left something happened and he then says we were talking for some time there's a pause not in his baseline so there's a gap for a fair amount of time now my interrogator brain would immediately go about what about what because something's hot that's happening right here first time i watched this video i was like ding ding ding we got a problem on the deck something's going on and then he says something and this word could mean that it never happened and in my initial pause i thought it never happened but now i change my opinion what we would usually do on a nice night he says and what we call usually is like honestly or any other thing a push-pull word why usually why not just tell me what you did instead of what you usually would do and then he described he goes back to describing the pool as being the nicest area and he goes back to his normal baseline lots of details walking then he goes back into storytelling mode he goes over we we were here the dogs would have come over here that dogs always do this thing and it's a repeatable pattern for him then he says we were just talking and finishing our drinks pregnant words words of omission as joe navarro and jack schaefer call it verbal bridging or i call it time hiding and then um lip compression jaw works and then he says she says i gotta go in because i gotta make a call in the morning but he doesn't say it like he usually does he does a lilt at the end as if he's asking for approval there's a total lack of eye contact during this time that means nothing might mean something it's simply him moving around and then he says and that's the last time i saw her alive well not no last time i saw her paws alive well no she was live when i found her so lots of inconsistency with his storytelling brain going on here he's a small chunker he's giving you lots of details his word patterns bothered me the first time i listened to it until i went back through and figured out he's a guy who says would have been for something happens all the time when is something active it is usually using a verbal noun like drinking when it's or talking when it's something that is iffy then he's actually using a verb and a past tense verb so lots of word patterns lots of things going on that compress lip compression the verbal bridging around the topic made me really red flag if i were sitting there i'd be all over them um chase what do you got uh great points i think when he was inside the house i'm not sure and we all disagree sometimes i think i'm not sure we're seeing baseline i'm i think we're seeing storytelling at a masterful level that is potentially untrue and i'm hes personally i'm hesitant to call that baseline but i think i think that some of these are the ways that he normally speaks but we're back to vague answers when he says usually and i think the word usually is a way that he softens details and i think just seeing the dogs reminded him because he looked at the dog a quarter of a second before he said and the dogs would come over and he actually says and listen closely when you go back to this video we would just talking we would just talking he didn't say we were just talking he says we would just talking so he even accidentally added that in there and his eyes are no longer matching reference when he is on message when he knows what he's talking about he's confident his eyes and hands move in perfect synchronicity as most of our stu but now in this part of the story his eyes are no longer matching up with what he's talking about where she exited where the dogs were where the chairs were his eyes are not moving where they were the last i saw kathleen he says this his body is open he's holding a leash in one hand his other hand's out there as mark would say his hands are down on the truth plane they're opened up and his realization of his mistake causes an instantaneous chin drop then appointing and she's he says no she was alive when i found her which is sudden closure his hands pull all the way in and close in front of his soft belly which i'm sure mark will expand on i hope mark expands on it because he says it more eloquently than i do but at the end when he's having when he's talking about how these details get mixed up so easily he's talking about all these details but that's you know that's that's not a big deal and he's saying that it's easy to mix these things up and people tend to do that back and forth mixing gesture like a laundry machine gesture when they when they want to communicate that's easily misunderstood by anybody and some people do this habitually like even some famous public speakers like brian tracy but this guy does not have it in his baseline it's not there so i think we're seeing deception here not that he's guilty of the crime but that he is making up a majority of the story here uh scott i thought i didn't think he went to the pool until i heard greg talking about that i thought when he said we would have gone down to the pool i was on the impression they didn't go down to the pool from that point i think i don't think they got outside i think they whatever started might have started there in the tv room when they're watching tv and then she was going upstairs and he caught her there and whatever happened to her happened right then and he's just making that other stuff up because he's going through his very relaxes on his own turf because he says when he's out we would have so my impression was before greg went through all that and before before you were talking about that chase was he didn't even make it down to the pool i think he he he tagged her before before they got down there but then thinking about you're right the way he's constructing those sentences that makes me think maybe he was down there as well because he does try to to back up and save himself when he says no wait i saw her again well a lie but not so much or whatever the the term was there so yeah you guys uh totally nailed all i i got in there and i i'll i'll leave it at that so and the only thing chase i think when we talk about baseline when we say baseline i'm seeing his storytelling baseline because we don't know what his personality is we just know what we're seeing on video right that's a good point and scott i think what you said is 100 plausible it's definitely for sure i thought the same kind of what's going on yeah yeah i totally think i'm the same i i i don't think they went outside and down to the pool at all and uh and and here's why i think chase you're right he's looking around that environment and he's picking up cues and he's putting them into the story he does it when he sees the cushions are not quite straight that's kind of interesting is it because he isn't used to soft furnishings around the place and when stuff is out of place like that triggers him so so he's like oh that you know those could have been like this or they could have been a bit more like this or the the dogs came down he's making this one up on the fly i think and part of that i think then also uh scott he's leading everybody away from the crime that's what he's doing he's like should we should we have a look outside should we have a look down at the at the pool and i'll start making up a story about how we went down there he's leading everybody off on a whole different story uh let's just have a look at all the fillers in there and greg you're often talking about this hiding time thing and you know and if somebody said and you know that i'd be on that i'd be you know up in their grill well on this guy you would literally be fixed to his grill like like some piece of roadkill you would be through the grill on this guy because here's what happens and and then and and and uh and uh and then uh and ah and i stayed right here and and i stayed and she left and the last and she and that's it it's full of filler he's making stuff up as he goes along it's extraordinary just go back watch that again and just see how much filler is there and how much he's using us to lead us literally down the garden path if that is a a metaphor that works for the u.s audience that we have certainly any of the uk audience will understand being led down the garden path he's literally taking us to the bottom of the guard on on on this one uh chase to your point of just explaining a bit of evolutionary behavioral psychology uh 101 or certainly my 101 to people when when you see people protect this this belly area we are descendant from ground-dwelling mammals uh not apes up in trees that was just something that the victorians did to charles darwin to really annoy him so we go will you read the book so grant we're descending from ground dwelling mammals as the uh plains of southern africa opened up as climate change happened back then and the forests of africa receded the groundwelling mammal now has an advantage to standing upright and you get upright hominids when the hominid goes upright on a plane it's now got an advantage because it can see a distance up to several miles be able to see prey or mate or or a predator coming but now now you're up like there's a disadvantage in that this area of the body is now very very vulnerable we do not uh evolve ribs all the way down because we want to be able to duck and run and be able to run long distance so this remains vulnerable and therefore often when we're truly telling the truth we will open up in this area or if you want to convince somebody that you're being honest you can open up in that area and it will convince most people including yourself there's a there's a um a whole difference that happens in in the in your brain step uh with various neurotransmitters and levels of oxygen and carbon dioxide changing as you open up here so as you open up here it feels more honest as you close around this area you feel more protected there little evolutionary behavioral psychology 101 there you go excellent and we were talking here for a fair amount of time and then what we would usually do on a nice night we would go down to the pool which i always you know think about the nicest place on the property i don't know if the chairs were like this or not but i mean they're probably something like this and she was we were both right here and you know the dogs would come over and um they'd we were just talking and uh finishing our drinks and then um she said i gotta go in because i've got the conference call in the morning and she started walking uh out that way and i stayed right here i don't think i think anything special to her certainly not thinking this was the you know last time i'm going to see her that's a good night i'll be up a little bit later and i stayed here and she walked [Applause] and the last i saw her was when i was there and she was just walking walking here that's it that was the last i saw kathleen alive no she was alive when i found her but alright barely we go i can vividly remember finding kathleen i can remember opening the door i can remember calling 9-1-1 i can remember i particularly remember todd just holding me as tight as possible i think it would have contained me and i can remember heather the doctor ben's girlfriend taking my pulse and then i can remember and it must have been very early while i was still in the kitchen that a cop was on me insta everywhere i went a policeman was there i went outside and with ben and the policeman was there and i remember walking down there and a policeman was there there was always a policeman with me do you have a pet owl yeah no kidding nobody asking that all right i'll go first on this one i think what we're seeing here is this what he's talking about is the protocol that police officers follow when they show up to a scene like this you got somebody that's been all they're they're a mess when you show up you're gonna you're gonna start walking around with and following the person that was there that made the call that was that was on the scene and whoever they're talking to you want somebody listen to what they're saying you want to make sure they're not saying okay they think this so we got to move our chess piece over to here as they they may need stuff to create that story to help defend them so all what he's talking about is trying to show that the police are biased and think from the word go that he's the guy who did it however that's what they do anyway they're going to do that we have a whole module on this at the true crime workshop about the protocol police use when you have the first interaction with the police when they show up the police are the police officers that show up on the the first responders are not the detectives they show up later this guy's on the impression everybody's the same thing from the non-vo from the 911 dispatcher to the officers he's dealing with when when they first show up then when the the detectives show up that's not the same thing by any means so all they're doing is keeping an eye on this guy and listening for what he's saying it's nothing they're doing because they think they should that's what you do that's the protocol you follow when you show up to something like that so he's trying to to to skew uh the viewers into thinking well they're all against me anyway he does this with the d.a in a little while as well but that's what that's about he's trying to say from the word go they've been against me all right greg what do you got yeah i'm i'm going to leave this very simply i'm going to talk about where emotion should be and where emotion is so we think of two things like chase you and i agree on this it's withholding information but most of the time i think it's withholding emotional information lip compressions so he's talking about his dead wife he's talking about a 9-1-1 call he's talking about walk walk walk where do you think that emotion should land dead wife probably that's a good place for it no i accessing up left i'm remembering something visual i'm remembering something that happened and maybe that's his you know not his normal but his digital memory or its visual memory he's go left he'll go up left when you're thinking of something emotional your eyes drift down to the right when i turn my head that way you automatically recognize it mark you know a good actor does that a bad actor doesn't so we expect to see that when his wife has died but we see it when the police are following him we see lip compressions when he's talking about the 911 call and when he's talking about the police following him he's emotional about that but i sure don't see any emotion around the wife that's a red flag for me and i would probe and poke and try to understand why mark what do you get yeah so actually to that point uh greg when he starts his words of i vividly remember he's he's down i can't i'm not gonna try explaining to which slide because i won't be able to i won't be able to do it down and and then as he starts to recall vividly his eye line changes completely yeah so i instantly go well there's something going on there because he started to recall and then he changed his recall so does he not like what's down there does he need to make this up i mean there's there's a stark difference give me some feedback on that greg yeah so for a second think about what you should say in any situation okay you're in trouble you just have been busted for x your eyes are going to drift down because you're doing internal conversation about what answer you should give and then maybe he did go to a vivid recall for example think about directions from your house to the first fast food or starbucks near you and find and think about landmarks as you're walking all the way your eyes drift up and to your left 90 of us and we have to find baseline for the individual but my guess is mark he's starting off with an internal conversation and then boom going up and accessing yeah yeah yeah absolutely thank you for thank you for that thank you um uh where'd i got to hang on oh yeah yeah great that's all right that's right that's all right um yes so what happens in now for me is is basic storytelling that he's doing in order to as you say scott bias us around this and the story is is that he needed he particularly remembers needing to be cared for and supported by his i think probably his son i'm assuming and then and then there's i think there's a daughter-in-law who he clearly explains it has met a medical practice of some sort and needs to take his pulse so it's not just any old person going oh you know do you need your pulse changing it's an actual doctor going oh i got to take somebody's pulse here and an actual son going you really need you know a big a big cuddle and some support and to be contained as well and i love that idea that he that he was probably you know close to you know renting his clothing in a biblical way at the the horror of of of what is the accident that has happened to his wife down the than the flight of stairs as i'm slowly learning as we go through this this show together um and the police are harassing him and it's partly that contrast as well because i think to your point scott if the police were just following him around you know in the story we might go oh you know fair though maybe they they need to you know check if you're okay but because he's set up no if i'm in trouble if i need help you got to hold me you got to contain me and you better check my pulse and those guys weren't doing that so they clearly weren't doing what was necessary for me so not so he creates quite a lovely contrast there in in his story uh chase what do you got all right i'm gonna break this down uh systematically let's talk first about the vividly remember statements he only says that he vividly remembers in the description of contended parts of the story that's it that's the only time he says vividly the word vividly disappears when he recalls things that are provable by other people his expressiveness so the demeanor and expressiveness is completely absent until he arrives at the first provable and truthful part of the story and once he arrives at provable truthful things he struggles strong body narration his head movement eye movement are linked up his illustrators as you guys would call them are great throughout all these truthful events now to his eyes there's a grimace expression when he says finding kathleen props to him for mentioning her name but the grimace is confirmed if you watch it in slow motion or you know click the rewind button a couple times just look at the lower eyelid for this but during all questionable points of the story every single one are preceded by a double blink eye flutter so two blinks none of the truthful ones none of the ones that other people can prove that actually happened have this double blink eye flutter as a precursor to the statement so truthful recall uh is normal his resting blink rate except for the who he went outside with is the only thing that's different so maybe he's having trouble recalling who went outside with him not sure what that is but that that is a interesting data point there but let's talk about detail really quick not a single single detail about the body the scene or any of the disputed parts of the story zero and there's a massive amount of detail with the truthful parts provable parts of the story that other people can prove this is a textbook illustration of a deceptive statement i can vividly remember finding kathleen i can remember opening the door i can remember calling 911. i can remember i particularly remember todd just holding me as tight as possible i think it would have contained me and i can remember heather the doctor ben's girlfriend taking my pulse and then i can remember and it must have been very early while i was still in the kitchen that a cop was on me insta everywhere i went a policeman was there uh i went outside and with ben and the policeman was there and i remember walking down there and a policeman was there there was always a policeman with me okay okay well if you say relationships that would mean that wouldn't imply more than you know sex for instance and that never happened i mean i'm very i'm not that multifaceted you know that i could have more than one relationship i'm a monogamous person in the sense that i know there was kathleen she took up my whole life could i have sex yes that that could exist but not a relationship i could not you know go to dinner you know or have a no it would be inconceivable that that because she fulfilled all of that and and actually fulfilled certainly sexual uh but there was this other aspect of me that just existed and i yes did have sex is it just me i mean we talked about this the two crimes that happened here is the murder then there's his family letting him wear that toupee that's like the worst i've ever seen in my life but at the same time does he look like he's doing a bit there's he looks like he's been dressed up and stuff yeah yeah that's bizarre yeah it's terrible all right greg what do you got yeah so this is one of my favorites in the entire video because he interrogates himself and gets a confession is in effect what he's doing what he does here is exactly what we do what he does is he softens severity he gives himself no out and he progressively softens severity until he says well yeah of course i did and it's almost outlandish it's almost a skit money python couldn't have done a better job and he starts off with a bill clinton denial i did not have sexual relations by defining what relations mean then he starts parsing facts well i'm monogamous in the sense well if you go look up monogamous that's a pretty clear definition of what that means and he's redefining the word so he's parsing facts and getting things down to where he can manage them here's distancing language could i have that could exist so what he's doing is what we would use the read method to do and to take him down the garden path mark to a point to where he feels like well it's not so bad to confess to this thing and then in fact just comes out and says in public admission well yeah i did ironically he's interrogating himself we just are watching it's really a good example of that mark what do you got yeah so uh so he starts off with basically negotiating the terms with himself uh then he goes for what i'm going to call reverse resume statements which are you know i'm i'm not i'm not that multifaceted so he uses a lack of something in order to say well of course it wouldn't be it wouldn't be me because i i lack on something um i just love the way he says use his word inconceivable because it just reminds me of the princess's bride because he says it just like that guy right it's brilliant um and just to use the word you know it's inconceivable um but but um but then ah then he does some beautiful kind of gymnastics around around that because he goes he kind of sets up another person like another personality so it's inconceivable that i could do that unless there was another kind of personal conception of me and then yeah that person that conception could could do that so he's already started to i think as chase would say you know build a bridge for himself to kind of step across like if it wasn't if it wasn't quite me then then it would be slightly conceivable that i could go down this this route um you know what's interesting here is he seems to me to be playing the part of almost a kind of a jungian analyst he kind of starts off with this chin and like um let me let me think about about this and then starts to you know pose how he might get himself around this and into the right place for it but his bling rate is up very very high there's lots of eye blocking in there um these these um looks into the distance and deep breathing i think in order to buy time as he starts to construct this world whereby he might be able to walk over and and admit to something uh i think so here's here's the question i have for you know all panelists watching and i want you to put your answers uh down below and and as we've said before we really look at what you write down below especially if you are subscribed so subscribe and then we'll take an extra special look you know of what you're putting down below i think i either see contempt or duper's delight during this around the idea of relationships and um what that would mean and and i'm unsure as to whether it is contempt around relationship or jupiter's delight around the story he started to create but i'm sure it's one or the other okay but for me and so so i want you to put down below what do you think uh it is put it down below and we'll take a look uh chase what do you got have you been so i think we see some rapid eye blinking here and i want next time you see this anywhere you are i want you to think of it as a opening up the control panel and doing a force quit on a whole bunch of apps and trying to figure out what apps i need to have open for this because that's kind of what it is so the this facial touching is a high stress behavior this is why you'll see a lot of the less experienced people say that this is a good deception indicator oh he scratched his nose he's telling a lie it's the pinocchio effect and all this other stuff but according to all academic research facial touching is the leading one of the lead i think it is the leading stress indicator in apparently college students who get experimented on and when college students get stressed out they're likely to touch their face that's what the research shows us so that's what we see here don't read into it too much you'll probably see somebody else say something else so going on greg's thing i have it written down here i'm going to read you something it won't be long it depends on what the meaning of the word is is if the if he if is means is and never has been that is not that is one thing if it means there is none that's a completely true statement now if someone had asked me on that day are you having any kind of sexual relations with miss lewinsky that is ask me a question in the present tense i would have said no and it would have been completely true riddled me that one so but at least that simple up obfuscation this is convincing yourself yeah so so now we're not even in front of a grand jury we're not doing any kind of perjury stuff but he hit this is his internal self and a criminal most criminals or people who just feel guilty about something go through a legitimization or a legitimizing process in their mind as they're going to the police station like hey could you come in we'd like to talk to you about this it goes through a projection a rationalization and a minimization which we are all trained to do as interrogators that already happens in their head beforehand we're just helping it to come out so finally at the very end when he's saying that well certainly his wife fulfilled him in the bedroom you see a fear micro expression if you haven't ever seen one like for real we've seen all these demos or this digital thing you can download on your ipad that looks really silly this is a great one because the fear starts here the fear facial expression starts down here and this is called a sternocleidomastoid muscle and it actually jumps when you see someone get scared you'll see it jump in front of the carotid artery that's the the first part that starts in a fear facial expression is the sternocleidomastoid you see a great fear micro expression here that's all i got scott go ahead dang it you guys got everything so all i'm going to do is i'll agree with mark on the the the part about oh we're not going to talk about the duper's delight though thing right all right i guess i got nothing except i got this look how this is swelling up i have a blocked saliva i'm going to not put this in but dang it if i look like i'm chewing a big old child that's what it is so you remind me of my grandmother when you do it doesn't look bad at all okay well if you say relationships that would mean that wouldn't imply more than you know sex for instance and that never happened i mean i'm very i'm not that multi-faceted you know that i could have more than one relationship i'm a monogamous person in the sense that i know there was kathleen she took up my whole life uh could i have sex yes that that could exist but not a relationship i could not you know go to dinner you know or have a no it would be inconceivable that that because she fulfilled all of that and actually fulfilled certainly sexual uh but there was this other aspect of me that just existed and i uh yes did have sex oh here we go or a barn owl so i mean it's it was just a commentary and i didn't attack him personally i didn't say anything negative about his you know personal life i don't know anything about his personal life and i would never would say anything about anybody's personal life anyway but everybody knows and i should have certainly known better that when you make fun of people they don't like it it's it's just that simple and uh if you make them look silly or ridiculous uh they remember that all right chase what do you got this guy is socially intelligent he has a high level of emotional intelligence most likely in social intelligence it's a fabulous conversationalist what we see here is a lot of what's called tonal shifts kind of highs and lows there's a machine invented and i think still kept at mit called a sociometer that can predict charisma based on just two factors as far as i know the amount of hand movement in a conversation an animation of a body and the tonal ups and downs of tone is like a 99 accurate read of how much charisma a person has so if you watch mark on mute you'll think wow that guy's probably a level 11. so he's highly socially intelligent what's happening here is not a lie you're just seeing a sales pitch and he's socializing the situation when you make fun of people he's not he's not making it about this issue he's making about all humans which is a great play that's all i really got here uh scott we got all right yeah i agree with you that's it's a performance he's back to just a little bit extra face in there not a whole lot and uh that's everything you said yeah he's a lot like the request for approval the eyebrows up quite often he's speaking with confidence but he's trying to create that story of blaming it on he's only in trouble because the d.a doesn't like it first the cops didn't like him now the d.a didn't like him because he made fun of him and like he just said people don't like it when you make fun of them so that that's he's he's running uh he's running up that's his ploy because he's trying to make it he's trying to i'm in trouble because these guys don't like me i didn't do this so that's just and i think he's being too subtle with it you know i think he might be so thinking when he writes these novels with all these levels of stuff in there i think he's being too smart he's throwing out these things but it's not really catching i don't think so that's what i think is going on there greg what do you got yeah i see a baseline thing for him the and chase i think you're dead on he understands that he can engage with the voice and he can pull with voice as well with his body language you know he's been doing this a long time um he's when he goes that lilt up at the end and the brow up that's his request for approval and what he's doing is he's throwing out some data to see if you're picking it and then pulling it back in to see if you grab and you're following so that brow up and that whimsical tone is where he does it when he's deflecting blame for his action that got him into trouble shoulder comes up you saw that that one shoulder flinch and but when he's stating facts hard eye contact and when he's telling brow down so all these are baseline things for you so when you're looking at him and we're going to give you some homework to go back further into the video coming you can take all this into account as you're looking back into it okay mark what do you got yeah just one gesture which stands out for me just because it's a really fun one to to look at and it's what i would class as an a feet gesture a feat being one that uh something that looks to have power but really doesn't have power anymore and and what he does is to just take the kind of dust from the side of his nose and then you know sprinkle it around just tidy tidy the place up what he's trying to do is show high status um i think i think it was uh president trump who did a similar kind of removal of lint from the from the jacket of the french president uh once or french prime minister uh maybe it was and it's it's the it's the i'm at a high enough status that i can tidy up things that are around here so taking that high road but just lovely lovely to take dust from his own nose and rather than the shell for somebody else his own kind of dust settling over him now and just make sure that's nice and tidy beautifully a feet lovely gesture there that's all i got for you so i mean it's it was just a commentary and i didn't attack him personally i didn't say anything negative about his you know personal life i don't know anything about his personal life and i would never would say anything about anybody's personal life anyway but everybody knows and i should have certainly known better that when you make fun of people they don't like it it's it's just that simple and uh if you make them look silly or ridiculous they remember that cool let's move on tight guys nice okay mr peterson you're under oath correct yes and uh you expect this jury to believe you yes treat you as an honest person yes but the truth is there have been times in your life where you have lied because it benefited you i would say probably that's a good characterization although i might say it's easier it was just easier sometimes to let the lie come out all right i'll go first on this one because i don't have a whole lot for it there's tons there but i know you guys are going to rip out a new one so what i want to talk about is uh there you remember that show lie to me the one that that was supposed to be paul ekman in that show there's a there's a song in there and it was called easier to lie that's by his band aqualung go check it out they s the the the the song is about what he's talking about it's an experience we've all experienced we've all gone through the feeling that guy's talking about when we lied about something and we've all lied you've lied every panelist has lied we've all lied and some people are good at it and some people aren't so he's feel so he's talking about the feeling that is expressed in that song where it's it's easier to lie than to say okay here's what happened let me let's let's get started and go through the whole thing because that is would disrupt his life it would disrupt his his marriage it would disrupt everything if he had told the truth about that of the lies he's talking about so in a nutshell that that's that's where i'm coming from um yeah i mean because it is easier to lie that's that's the we all know that and that's the reason we rely a lot of times all right mark what do you got yeah so i started looking at this and i was just what is going on here it's just the most bizarre amateur dramatics going on and then i said to the guys i said what is going on and they said oh i think they're they're kind of practicing for and then it started to make a bit more sense uh to me you know it was it was it was core prep but even still i mean so so he starts off with fingertips like like so now you only ever do this consciously the moment you see any human being like this you know they know they're doing this because this is super hard to do and that and that's why like it takes a lot of a lot of conscious brain power to to do this so the moment you see somebody doing this you're like uh you know you're you're performing right now you know what you're doing you think this has an effect so he started with this effect and i guess and i guess you know his his coaches which i don't know who they are but his coaches have said you know do do this because you'll look you know like you've got some power and you know you'll look like you're honest if you do that um so we know this is this is amateur dramatics from moment one from him okay the second question came up which is who's the dude in the who who's blowing in blowing his nose into a paper bag correct yes and uh you expect this jury to believe you like is is that you know the jury is one man strong and true and and who selected that guy correct yes and uh you expect this jury to believe you so it's like we got this jury member and he's blowing his nose into into a paper bag that was just odd i don't know what what any of that is it's about and what it and what and why he's part of the team correct yes and uh you expect this jury to believe you well well oh let's get him in uh you know he blows his he's got a he's got a a nasal problem but let's get him in he'll be really helpful i don't know what's going on there and then the guy who's who's the i guess is his lawyer not even playing a lawyer i guess the guy's his lawyer i suppose i don't know he opens with what we call a barnum statement which is it's always true it's true for everybody so you know you've lied to serve you know your own purposes well yeah of course you know lies either serve the purpose of the person lying or serve the greater community or somebody else that's the nature of lies they set up a story something that isn't true in order for to serve a benefit either for you or somebody else or a whole group of people and and do we do that have you ever done that it's like yes of course i have of course i've done that i probably do that most every day most every day so to throw out a barnum stick the moment you hear questions like that we call them barnum statements they're always true just like i know that you sitting there right now you have a scar just on your knee yeah just around around that knee probably the other way if not it's probably it's your elbow yeah and we know that's a barn of state like everybody has a scar somewhere on their knees and they're out because they're designed they're designed for you to fall over and and for them to get damaged and and to heal okay so barnum statements going on there that was just that's nuts what is going on there i have no i want to hear from everybody else chase what's going on there speaking of barnum statements uh one of one of the best was some of your aspirations tend to be unrealistic oh really that was that was the beginning of the original barnum statement paragraph and they're great but they're also great when you say it to a jury as a witness but the statement you see from this attorney is a very standard issue law school here's how you cross-examine here's how you undermine someone's level of trust with the jury super standard not very effective and keep this in mind it's not a question it is not a question but this is a golden opportunity for this person to answer it which is where some attorneys would say if it's not a question you say the phrase that's not a question is that a question you to try to undermine the opposing counsel not a good idea at this point it's always a good idea to undermine opposing counsel but not at points like this so what you need to do if you if i'm coaching an attorney if there's a jury there the first first response needs to be to teach your client universal experiences universal experiences something everyone can identify with and maybe he could answer a question with something like i think every human being and suddenly i'm pointing to myself here i would teach teach this witness every human being i'm pointing to myself has regretted lying before we've all done it and i most certainly regret allowing that behavior to be okay and when i said allowing that behavior to be okay when i say that behavior that's a dissociative word that not i'm really not distancing myself from it i'm helping them to visualize it as separate from me so when i say we and i'm grouping everyone in and then i'm talking about something everyone sitting in that jury box is done lied to benefit themselves when your wife says do i look great in this dress and you say yes even though it might not be true that's a lie to benefit yourself and it's also the reason we function as a society so yeah we've all done it greg yeah so number one this a lot of people do it instinctively after a while because they've done it so many times mark when you intentionally are trying to block yes i always encourage any executive you any person who has a job you any person who wants to get ahead you not to ever do this because it's perceived badly in the beginning for just a minute think about where you've seen it burns on the simpsons excellent it looks evil it looks like you know masterminding evil and what happens is as you compromise your hands rotate forward so it is a really good indicator that you've lost control and then when they're when you're finally compromised like this have a great photo of tony blair standing in front of condoleezza rice just like that and i was like call mark call mark call mark you need some help so we tell people not to do stapling steepling's a bad move and when you move forward to compromise it in the reason people do it is because it looks like they're compromised in this case not sure if the guy coached him to do it or not but his messaging for the first time is pretty congruent whether he's telling the truth or whatever he's trying to do kind of a maricopa and be contrite and his body language is pretty good here this is a pretty good baseline because now his eyes are moving at the right time he looks softened he looks emotional looks like hey yeah i made a mistake and and it does come across that way now whether somebody coached him or that's him actually doing it i think it's actually he feels safe enough to say those words in preparation and what he's going through right here is inoculation just like your inoculated where all of us are getting this shot against a virus or like seer school where we put you through the experience so you're ready for it this is what you do this is what trial preparation is we get the guy ready so that he is not surprised when that question comes across and i think what you're seeing here is a pretty solid baseline for winnie is contrite and doing what he's supposed to do now the fingers give or take who knows but i think if you take this and you take the last segment so this video is video nine the last video is video eight if you go all the way back to video four the one where he talks about being on the deck and going down to the pool and you look at this as a baseline for yeah he's being contrite and honest in the last videos where he's asking for approval constantly go back and take a cr apart video four now go back and look at that story and put down the notes what you see because i think you'll see a very different story now and if you want to watch somebody do this go from steepling like this i'm talking like they know everything slowly but surely going down this way if you go to body language tactics.com we've got a video there we're talking about our course and the more greg outfits me the more this thing starts going down if you begin to personally i'm like oh i'm a totally in-charge guy the time it's over i'm like totally down like this watch that that's hilarious and people pointed out to the other dude what's going on do you think it's funny like well it was years ago yeah i know but still it's still classic for me anyway but that's a perfect example of that okay mr peterson you're under oath correct yes and uh you expect this jury to believe you yes treat you as an honest person yes but the truth is there have been times in your life where you have lied because it benefited you i would say probably that's a good characterization although i might say it's easier it was just easier sometimes to let the lie come out okay well now we've been through this one so let's throw it around the room and give a little uh wrap up of what we what we got on this what we think about really quickly 15 20 seconds mark what do you got yeah i think there's some good training in this one generally for if you're in court and somebody in the jury decides to blow their nose into a paper bag i think you know good preparation for that kind of situation um you know i i'm stunned by you know that walk along the garden path there and i think ultimately that's what he's doing he is leading us on a story here which is not accurate at all i think the whole thing we are seeing a person that has a narrative to push and a story and i think most of this if yeah i think most of this was deceptive i don't know anything about the evidence i don't know anything about the case i haven't seen the netflix series i've never heard this guy's name until scott texted me today and said hey the videos are in the drop box that was it but i think you don't need that to see behavior and there's a lot of academic-based uh very very research-based stuff that we're relying on here that is not conjecture that does show that there are there's a high degree of deception going on throughout this entire thing and i think he he can pull people in that's his talent you can even see if you go back and watch that last video we just looked at that juror was nodding his head he was nodding his head along with him and you can see that little nod as he's starting to admit like i have some faults and we all do it's great i think he did a great job scott all right yeah i think uh as we go through this it's some of these things i'm actually going to pull out and use in training because there's some classic things where somebody looks like they should be looking and it can just buzz right by if you're not paying attention we're set up to be paying attention to them but if you're not set up to pay attention to these specific things it'll run right by you so there's a lot of things in here i'm going to grab or two or three things that i'm going to grab and use for training because they're they're wonderful especially that story going from from the tv room all the way down to the pool everything that happens in there that's a you could do a day on that probably just tearing that thing apart okay greg what do you got yeah so guys this the first time somebody asked me to review this there's a british comedy duo elf and leafy and i did their podcast and they asked me to do this and i watched the first few minutes the thing this video for and i just said no nobody believes that that was how bad it was for me without analyzing i just said okay look at all the deviations from baseline that happen right there so for me when i see that much deviation now i'd have to watch the whole thing and get a lot more evidence and chase you famously say we're not the forensics panel we're looking at repeatable symptoms and behave behavioral symptoms and body language to see what we see this guy's deceptive now what he's deceptive about i don't know go watch the video see all the horrendous evidence and all that all these things spin their own tail but this guy's not telling the truth i don't i don't trust it excellent all right please subscribe and become a panelist because like like we were talking about earlier we just crossed over the 200 000 mark thank you all for that we really appreciate it and become a panelist because your answer your comments are more apt to be answered and use your suggestions for the people we do if you are a panelist all right there's another one you can fellas see you next time thank you correct yes and uh you expect this jury to believe you [Music] is

Channel: The Behavior Panel

Views: 152,821

Rating: 4.9357123 out of 5

Keywords: michael peterson, kathleen peterson, the staircase, michael peterson body language, the behavior panel, behavior panel, netflix, true crime, michael peterson 911 call, the staircase documentary, netflix original series, netflix series, netflix the staircase, the staircase netflix, the owl theory, the staircase movie, the staircase trial, true crime daily, netflix documentary, body language analysis, the staircase owl, owl theory, body language, the staircase owl theory

Id: rNH7GvKSnno

Length: 91min 15sec (5475 seconds)

Published: Fri Mar 19 2021