Who Killed JonBenet Ramsey? Body Language Analysis of Patsy Ramsey (2021)

it's like being a litigator eventually maybe all you have to do is use your name right yeah yeah then i go to i go you know because when i had thyroid cancer i got to go back and do scans to make sure and come back because they took my thyroid out right so i'm at the getting my scan done and the girl is like so what so what do you do i saw a body language expert she goes oh that sounds you know that sounds good so then i'm thinking she's in here doing the scan stuff she's into all this the minutia of neurological everything it's like on this this almost around yes well it is fascinating because and using big words that i never use for this big long almost soliloquy of how bad what i do is she goes yeah your pants are unzipped funny all right you ready yeah all right here we go i'm scott rouse i'm a body language expert and analyst and i train law enforcement in the military in interrogation and body language and i created the number one online body language course bodylanguagetactics.com with greg hartley mark i'm mark bowden i'm an expert in human behavior and body language i help people all over the world to stand out win trust and gain credibility every time they communicate including some of the leaders of the g7 chase hi i'm chase hughes i'm a behavior expert did 20 years in the u.s military published number one bestselling book on influence persuasion and people reading and i teach corporate america and the general public today greg greg hartley i'm a former army interrogator interrogation instructor resistance to interrogation instructor written 10 books on body language and behavior put together this body language tactics.com course with scott and i spend most of my time on wall street and in corporate america excellent all right well today we're going to talk about somebody who keeps we every time we put a video out we get at least i don't know how many we get people saying do patsy ramsey let's hear about the ramsey dude to talk about jon benet so we're going to do that today so it's it's come to the point where we can't put it off any longer so today we're going to talk about uh we're going to take a look at patsy ramsey greg you're the one that found the video we're going to use you want to tell us a little bit about it yeah there's some irony to this i'm going to almost be a cold reading today because i found this video a few months ago when people kept harassing us for this one and this is a this video is from 2000 so a few years after the jumbonet ramsey murder and they've released a book and they're back in front of the cameras and i think it speaks for itself past that this has become the hottest one we constantly get asked for i honestly don't find it as interesting as other cases often but when other people ask for it i think it's good for us to all spend their time looking at this and if you don't know this case this is one of those long running cases no one has ever figured out nobody knows what happened exactly on that christmas day or christmas eve so it's a timely one i think it'll always be around and people always be conjecturing what we don't plan to do is say this is what happened it was you know colonel mustard in the in the study we're not going to do that kind of thing we're just going to tell you what we see we're not going to say she's guilty or innocent we're going to say what we think in terms of this we're not trying to be the court here there's way too many people look to this case this is the behavior panel's opinion of what we see in patsy excellent okay the first thing we're going to do is go listen to the 911 call because that a lot of it's centered around that there are two parts to it the first part is the 9-1-1 call itself and then we're going to listen to the last part of it which we won't hear in this first video but we'll hear it again later where it was questionable about what went on in there so here we go police by far what's going on there now we have a kidnapping all right please explain to me what's going on okay there we have it there's a note left and our dog is gone a note was left and your daughter is done how old is your daughter six years old she's blind six years old how long ago was this i don't know i just filmed a note and my daughter's just saying each other i don't know there's a ransom note here it's a ransom though it says fbtc victory [Applause] please okay what's your name are you gonna say ramsay i'm the mother oh my god please i'm okay i'm sending an officer over okay do you know how long she's been gone no i don't please we just got out and she right here oh my god please okay i am honey please take a deep breath please hurry [Applause] all right greg what do you got yeah guys i'm always talking about 911 calls they're among my favorite things because when a person has a true emergency they're there to tell you the story and get as much information to you as possible i need you at my address right now for this problem i need police to look for my daughter not please please not telling you their story but telling you this story usually responding to prompts now people can be hysterical if you lose a child if something happens you're going to be hysterical but you typically don't control release information control release of information sounds like storytelling mark you talk about storytelling a hell of a lot on these things and this is storytelling it feels awkward to me and all this hbtc victory who cares about any of that who cares what's in the note what you want is the police right now you're beginning to release a story and those are typically alibis when you're doing that so this is a red flag conversation for me never mind all the it feels like bad acting to me no i'm not in her situation i can't say what she's normally like i don't see her enough but this looks like telling her story not the story mark what do you got yeah so here's what i want you to do i want you to replay that and i want you to breathe along with uh the the caller there because what i want you to see is whether you can sustain that level of breathing in out in out it's pretty rapid so it's real panic breathing but can you sustain it without giving up and going wow i'm going to fall over i'm going to faint because here's the thing that level of breathing without having an adrenaline you would stop so here's what i'm going to say that's real panic breathing from this person there must be some adrenaline in the system there's some kind of real panic going on because otherwise she wouldn't be able to breathe like that for so long i would suggest and i've tried this again and again again with lots of performers you know how do you do panic and do it take after take after take after take and not collapse fall over forget the words that you've got uh you have to have some adrenaline going through your system to burn up that uh that oxygen so real panic going on here now i don't know why there's real panic going on i can think of a whole bunch of reasons i don't know why but it's it's it's uh there's something real emotional going on there uh again heightened emotions are very very difficult to sustain most of the heightened emotions you've ever had you won't have been able to sustain them for more than about 10 minutes and very quickly you will have peaked you'll have found you your body start to get tingly your legs start to go from underneath you so again breathe along to that uh video and see how long you can sustain it for there's something real going on there um scott what do you got hey greg yeah we can't see you like you're about to waterboard us greg i turn it off i always get worried when it all goes a pa dark piece of felt goes over this is like that great just slowly very worried surely don't do that to me okay you ready yep all right well here's what i got that's greg and i did a whole that which this is from from our um course um the truecrimeworkshop.com and so we've studied these some of these things and this one i've been able to spend a little time with and like greg was saying earlier there are specific things you say when you're in a panic when you're calling 9-1-1 you're calling the people that are going to help you the quickest and the fastest and get there to get you as much help as possible two or three things for me lit up in here right out of the gate she says the right thing she gives her address that's the first thing she does usually you'll hear that when cops call when police officers call they'll say the first thing they'll say is the address and they'll say our house is on fire or whatever the problem is but then in this case when there's a kidnapping she wouldn't have said we have a kidnapping nobody says that she would have said my daughter's gone my my baby's gone somebody's got my kid something like that then she would ask questions and there was there was a note it takes her meant to get to the part where she says a rant a ransom note but she makes sure to say that which means she's read it so that that part of it is a little bit iffy for me the um i don't think she would have hung up at the end i don't i think she would have kept talking and trying to communicate and find out when this help is coming because she's saying please please please help me get this there's a there's a 911 call we have in this course where the woman has um her children have been have been killed and she's screaming just like the patsy ramsey is screaming there toward the end when she goes oh my god i think what's firing her adrenaline off there mark is the fact that she's as she's doing this she's realizing the the depth of of the situation of where they are in it and i think that's what's helping fire off her her adrenaline to get her excited as she moves forward through that that her communication with the 911 dispatcher so i think that that's that that's what we're hearing there we are hearing some panic because when that happens you've got to lean into it like this is and i think your body even even with a lot of actors they'll go ahead and lean on into the panic mode i think that's what that's what we're here at this point but i think she would have stayed on i don't think she would have just hung up i think she would have kept talking to her until they showed up i don't think she would have hung up with this so those those are a few things in there that bother me chase what do you got let's just talk about language here you guys covered a lot if your house was burning would you report we've got a fire or we have a gas fire and would you say i found the ransom note or would you say i found a ransom note let's say you found something insignificant you're staying in a hotel and there's a cockroach in your room and you call the front desk you're not going to say i found the cockroach in my room the word the suggests familiarity with the other person if i say i'm going to meet you at the restaurant you will have to know exactly what i mean and i think it's subconsciously was a way for her to imply familiarity and understanding with the situation excellent okay any cockroaches in your jamaican hotel chase so far no i'm in uh tower isle jamaica right now and uh it's it's been good i don't have any i bet if you find a cockroach it'll be a very specific it will be a cockroach yeah if it's on the beach it would be nude am i correct about that yes i think all the cockroaches are removed here okay good good all right let's move along lovely police all right please explain to me what's going on okay there we go there's a note left and our daughter's gone a note was left and your daughter is done how old is your daughter six years old six years old how long ago was this i don't know i just filmed a note oh my god this is the same checker what does it say the timber i don't know there's a there's a ransom note here it's a ransom though it says fbtc victory [Applause] please okay what's your name are you gonna say ramsay i'm the mother oh my god please i'm okay i'm sending an officer over okay do you know how long she's been gone no i don't please we just got out and she were here oh my god please okay [Applause] footprints outside the house no evidence of footprints i think it said no footprints in the snow and we have seen photographs that were taken the morning of the 26th by the police by the police of each of the door entries and around the house and there was no snow urban myth all right chase what do you got there are what i describe in my training we we've talked before about something called a confirmation glance if you're looking at an accomplice you'll probably do it before you answer if you're looking at two interrogators you'll probably do it after you answer but there are five ways you can look at someone that's with you in a conversation to gain something from that person and they spell out the word crash the first one is confirmation it says i want the other person to nod the next is relief somebody speaks for us and we're glad they took the opportunity the next is approval i'm requesting for the other person to nod or affirm what i'm doing then we have suggestion and this is a request for the them to continue for me or add some details for me and finally is help spelling out crash h's help and this is requesting for rescue and things have gone south in the conversation i need i need a bailout i need a mulligan here i need you to help me out and we see this relief glance in this the moment that his wife speaks starts speaking to answer the question we see this relief in his face that somebody else has answered it and i think it's interesting there's a strong chin raise in this woman's face by when she's saying by the police and her statement is kind of showing a little indignation and welcoming a challenge this is what we do when we want to challenge another primate and expose these vital organs we see it in bar fights even drunk people throw their their chin up and their arms out i think that's interesting right at the end of the clip we're starting to see something called a pre-swallow movement where this throat is starting to go up as a result of a saliva dump into the mouth all in i think there is there's a few credibility issues with the statement scott what do you got all right where's i agree with you 100 i didn't catch that swallow thing though fascinating um here we see her heads tilted as she's talking when people if you say you're playing poker when poker players are playing they'll when they do this and they expose that side of their neck and they get that head back that denotes it indicates confidence so here she's she's given information that she knows or that she believes to be true and she's sort of like sticking it up this interviewers because from you can tell i would suggest her attitude would be more of a holier than thou at that point because she's almost like i've got a huge nose so i can talk about noses she's almost looking down her nose at that at her as she's as you're saying that as her head goes back and the tone of voice is that dominant tone of voice you use when you're talking to a child or you're or you're mad at someone and you're saying well i'll tell you what i do know and the same thing with her we'll see as we go along her um illustrators get larger as we go illustrators of the ways your brain it focuses on specific words it emphasizes specific words or phrases just like i did then i did then and so we're seeing a lot of that and it gets more uh predominant as we go along but the the longer it goes the more intuit she gets of being more dominant over this person and we'll we'll talk about some other things i'm sure everybody's caught him as we go through this where she's being that way as well mark yeah so arrogance condescension we see exactly has been said there the chin comes up which means she ends up looking down the nose in condescension that's the over display of kill points on the body in close proximity basically saying you have no power i don't think you would strike or if you did strike i don't think it would have any effect on me so she's wanting to display power at this point i think that's because she's wanting to con re-control the story their story this is about them getting their story out and so she uses this idea of that how forceful she she is there was no snow um i almost said it there fake news she says um but instead she says urban myth an urban myth was the kind of 80s 90s version of fake news she's saying everybody else has controlled this narrative they've made up stories about this now i'm taking control of the story this is our story so i think that's what people don't like this is my first indicator of she's not a very likable person in this situation because she wants to assert power that as a good generalization across many cultures is a female asserting power is is not looked on well it's often looked on well by men and women they don't neither like it they want the women to share power but she's taking control of this i'll show you later on how actually she's very similar to margaret thatcher the uh the 80s prime minister of the uk very very similar vocal range very very similar gestures as well again not a likable woman by many people at the time so assertion of power assertion of the narrative uh greg what do you got yeah so you guys have gotten almost everything i had there are a couple of other small things number one you could have just as easily finish this sentence with you stupid twit that's the whole demeanor that she has when she's talking to this woman it's it's condescending it's arrogant it's telling it's you always talk about that pawing that pushing down she's pushing down when she's talking to this person mark and the other piece that she does is she does what i typically refer to authority by association hear her blast police out she uses that word like it gives her some kind of authority and we'll hear her again do what i would call holy ground or take some kind of authority figure and use it to validate her story that's the only thing i saw that you guys haven't mentioned i mean great round cover i think all of this you're you're dead on it i think when i was watching this all i could think was letting them eat cake famous last words she's condescending she's looking down her nose and it's hard to like her and if you don't like her you're gonna look for reasons why she did it that's what i'll leave this piece at okay footprints outside the house no evidence of footprints i think it said no footprints in the snow and we have seen photographs that were taken the morning of the 26th by the police by the police of each of the door entries and around the house and there was no snow urban myth about whether or not the flame was hung up and whether or not her son burp came downstairs and was talking some police officers believe that they could hear that on an enhanced audio tape others say no what do you say well we have not heard the 911 tape but we understand from people who have heard it that it sounds like a bunch of chipmunks chattering and that it is almost unintelligible all we know is that burke did not come downstairs that morning nor did we say to him you know go back or whatever it is they say that it said on the 911 take i phoned the police called 911 from the kitchen telephone wall phone hung up dialed one set of our friends hung up and dialed another set of friends and asked them to come quickly to help how soon after that 9-1-1 immediately immediately so so it seems to me like if you hang up the phone you're not going to be able to place another call unless the phone is completely this is another uh there's been no logic applied to any of this case in my judgment all right mark what do you got yeah so uh you know to your point uh often scott this idea of loping what i like about this is her story seems to kind of jump along quite quite well it seems kind of okay again the problem is i think for a lot of people is it just seems a little bit cold you know it doesn't have some of that variation it doesn't have the cracks in the voice of emotion and yet at the same time in terms of you know looking for truth it seems to romp along fairly well again i don't think people like the forthright aggressive nature of which it lopes along at i don't think people like her a surety around this because you know everybody out there we've all got ideas about what might have happened here uh first point i pick up here of the of the what looks to me like lip grooming you know it's a lick of the lips i would say in order to say hey i'm looking good i want to look good for this so it already feels to me like looking good is important to her and uh you know i know i think her daughter was obviously in in pageants i think she was in pageants the idea of looking good and presenting well my guess is is massively important and that comes across for me in the lip grooming um oh also this idea of social status and and two sets of friends so there's this idea of already you know i've got my whole crowd involved i've got lots of friends they're a set as well strong social structure and looking good in front of the social structure that's what i've got out of that and uh chase i want to go to you what do you got yeah absolutely agree with you guys i think there's some indignation at the beginning here with the question and the mention of the 9-1-1 call and the sun coming downstairs produces immediate eye flutter which i thought pretty telling and we've not heard the 911 tape and this is a reassurance and approval glance that we see here and all we know is that burke didn't come downstairs we know nothing else we know that there was no involvement the one thing we're certain of is that he did not come downstairs we know nothing else about anything he just didn't come downstairs and i fully agree with mark and this is the world that they live in is appearance and image and perception management so most of her life pageants are about perception management it's not about true beauty it's not about a whole lot of other things that they might purport themselves to be perception management is the name of the game and i think that has bled into many other areas of her life and we see that here scott what do you got all right i think we're seeing some really odd eye eye blinking behavior here and this is the first time i've actually ever paid attention to it where i've seen it like this we do see the eye flutters at the beginning but when but she blinks twice every time when she starts when she hears um whether or not the phone was hung up when the when the interviewer says that she blinks twice when she says um or your son burke came down and was talking she blinks two times there and then she says some police officers officers believe they can hear that on the enhanced audio she blinks two times there no other time is she doing two blinks like that so she may do it a couple other times as we go down the road here but in this thing that seems to almost trigger her double eye blink which i've never seen that before that was really really odd as far as that goes and i agree with you guys on everything on everything else so greg what do you got yeah so we always talk about fight or flight increasing blink rate in this specific case this is fight almost guaranteed this is not flight this is how dare you attack me again i can see it written all over and the double blink is a condemning double blink i think it's the how dare you ask that again and it's a poke she's she's ready for a fight you can see she's ready for fight she's not she's not backing away from it and looking afraid she's not her lips are not getting thin she's ready for for going out this person's what i see when she starts to talk and she's nodding and she's thinking watch her head slow down the speed of her nodding slows down as her processor kicks in and she's thinking about how to answer this question love the confirmation glance love the connection connecting glance and she looks over to make connection and think okay i'm not alone in this we're on the same page and that you guys covered everything else i think those pieces scott i love the fact that you're catching that double blink and i think fight or flight makes us blink more rapidly and i'm a southern boy i was raised in the south i can see a southern woman looking at me and blinking her eyes twice and saying oh no you didn't i can see that written all over this woman you know if if my grandmother had done something like that or would have thought oh here comes something bad's about to happen to me so think about the park culture place because we're all born capable of doing everything the other person's doing and all culture does is add nuance to those meanings that's all it does so when somebody looks at you and goes that means something she's done it before and it's it's a method for i see fighter flight and she's after you that's it that's all i got okay this is ramsay the 9-1-1 call and there are contradictions about whether or not the flame was hung up and whether or not her son burke came downstairs and was talking some police officers believe that they could hear that on an enhanced audio tape others say no what do you say well we have not heard the 911 tape but we understand from people who have heard it that it sounds like a bunch of chipmunks chattering and that it is almost unintelligible all we know is that burke did not come downstairs that morning nor did we say to him you know go back or whatever it is they say that it said on the 9118 i phoned the police called 911 from the kitchen telephone wall phone hung up dialed one set of our friends hung up and dialed another set of friends and asked them to come quickly to help soon after that 9-1-1 immediately immediately so so it seems to me like if you hang up the phone you're not going to be able to place another call unless the phone is completely this is another uh there's been no logic applied to any of this case in my judgment cool all right here we go so what we'll do is this we're going to play this the last part of the 911 call we're not going to comment on it what we want you to do is you talk about it you tell us what what you think is being said in this because it's really tough to make out i'm hearing one thing but but i'm not really even sure what that is so why don't we do that we're just going to play this for you we'll play it it'll go through three times and you'll listen to that and then you write what you think it says in the [Applause] comments [Music] okay [Applause] happy [Music] okay [Applause] happy [Music] cool all right here we go mrs ramsey it's my understanding that the colorado bureau of investigation took your handwriting samples to the secret service do you know the results of that test definitively no i don't i just no we had experts do the same kind of testing and it's my understanding that the people that that we use trained the people from the cbi colorado bureau that they administered the tests and they on a scale of one to five with five being absolutely no match i ranked at a 4.5 with one being perfect match so you know we don't we don't know the result all right i'll go first on this one um when she's nodding yes she we we see her squint when they talk about the secret service her she freezes and you see that those eyes squint up so something's there i don't think she knew that had happened because once they say that once they throw in that jab at her in other words she comes back with um well here's what i do know that i'm not the person that did it and here's all the proof that tells why that's what i'm saying that that stuck out to me like i you know like a red flag but greg what do you got yeah i'm on the same page watch her pupils there's a flash in her pupils in this like you don't get the opportunity to see very often her pupils go to pinpoint and then back out a little um when she does that squint thing i'm with you i think if she really believes that whatever she has her expert's better than your expert is what she just said my expert taught your expert so there i'll see your expert and raise you another that if she really believed that and didn't know about the the secret service doing it she probably would quickly go oh there's there's a piece of data i didn't expect and the squint is data intake and when you call it fake concern or concern she's doing data intake so those are really big things for me and the other one is mark you brought up last time she's lip grooming this is not lip grooming that was a quick jut that usually is distaste that usually is disapproval whatever you know desmond moore said it's our first no it's how we push a nipple away from our lips and so it's rejection of an idea rejection of that i it makes me want to talk to her more about the handwriting and in fact guys if you really want to know about handwriting there are hours and hours and hours of stuff about her handwriting about her talking to in a deposition about the handwriting so you can go and dig into this for yourself and not not just look at what we're doing in body language um chase what do you got let's keep in mind when they're talking about handwriting analysis they're talking not about graphology which is referred to sometimes as a pseudoscience they're referring to the characteristic and nature of how letters are constructed and written and whether or not they match someone else all the way down to pressure of the pen on on the paper great call up great color uh so right here she starts out discrediting the evidence instead of making any kind of denial makes no denial as a matter of fact whatsoever and she says it's my understanding and this is the first thing that any good lawyer is going to teach you to say during an interview you always say it's my understanding you can never be backed into any corner for the rest of your life and i think that's just being used here and i think it's interesting they would hire people to analyze their own handwriting to begin with mark yeah so uh here's what we see again is this uh playoff of status there instantly goes to as greg was saying you know uh my my graphologist is better than your graphologist my graphologist you know trained your graphologist so so kind of almost the resume statement or or resumes at dawn it's a dueling match is going on immediately and here's why i think this is important for our perception of her is it's very aloof and high status and i think what we want to see is the public from her is sorrow and loss and she doesn't give us any sorrow and loss so i think what we need to do as a public kind of watching this is go what am i really wanting from her and if she isn't able to give it to me might i be against her might it cause a bias in me i think her aloofness here easy easily triggers us into a bias against her because she is a mother and from a mother we want to see continued sorrow and loss around this that that's all i've gotten oh i will bring up again as well this idea of the urban myth and and the idea that in urban myths in mythology you often get children going missing it's a classic of mythology and also um uh infanticide you know parents killing their kids as well so again as a public here we are in this wonderful world of mythology of the most horrible crimes of parents killing kids or um or kids just going missing being taken away by the fairies so again we've got to check in with ourselves around this and make sure that mythology isn't biasing us and that we can get to the real truth of what's going on here okay let me leave it at that guys this is going to be another mccann's for us people are going to hate or love us because they made up their mind a thousand years ago and all their evidence is right their experts going to be better than our expert you know they're going to say this expert said that so we're going to see that too this is a mess none of us know what happened in this house and you know i always say somebody says well it couldn't be she couldn't have killed her child because she's not a murderer and my answer is murder is a crime of passion and people do stupid things mrs ramsey it's my understanding that the colorado bureau of investigation took your handwriting samples to the secret service do you know the results of that test definitively no i don't i just no we had experts do the same kind of testing and it's my understanding that the people that that we use trained the people from the cbi colorado bureau that they administered the tests and they on a scale of one to five with five being absolutely no match i ranked at a 4.5 with one being a perfect match so you know we don't we don't know the results and the ransom note was already written i believe it was i mean it's very unusual for a ransom note to be this long i from what we understand from professionals we've talked with that after someone commits such a crime as this they you know get the heck out of there all right mark what do you got yeah so again playing status the idea of this is very unusual this is very unique this is very very special so again this idea of the status coming forward here's what triggers me around this furrowed brow lots of helpfulness lots of confusion lots of expertise where you maybe shouldn't have any expertise i think we've seen this time and time again with people who we know are not telling the truth it's the usual trope of i'm going to be very very concerned really helpful a little bit confused and actually quite knowledgeable about things that i really shouldn't be four or five big red flags come up for me at this moment probably the most concerning moment of of all of these videos for me uh chase what do you got we have another great case of the missing perpetrator everyone here has talked to somebody who's done some stupid or bad stuff and in nine out of 10 of those cases those people don't want to talk about the one who committed it they don't want to talk about the perpetrator who did this and as the video starts as this clip starts we see some false confusion but it's confusion for agreement it's i'm looking confused with my face in hopes that it becomes contagious to the other person and when she says someone did this not kidnapper not murderer not potential rapist it's someone and when she says such a crime as this it's not any of the harsh words kill or murder or whatever else we could we could be saying if that happens to a person's family member there is a 99.9 chance they have no problem and they are even very vocal about using that word to evoke emotion out of the person listening to them if you think about the phrase i did not have sexual relations with that woman the same thing happens instead of saying sex we change it to sexual relations and when she says at the very end get the heck out of here she actually does with her eyes she escapes the conversation as fast as she possibly can and hopes for a subject change scott what do you got all right yeah this one kind of bothers me too because when she says um after she says and the ransom note was already written and she uses what i call fading facts she starts getting quieter and quieter the further along she goes the quieter she gets as she goes like then she's when she says uh in a crime such as this when she's explained her head goes down to guard her neck because her neck is as up to this point we've seen a lot of times has been up going back to the when she was talking about the 9-1-1 call earlier we saw it go down and guard a lot it was bouncing around and it guarded a lot down there when it was talking about if she had her involvement in it in in the second part of the call but um when she says a crime such as this that head comes back down and guards the neck and then again she continues to speak quietly as she goes along so this this this shouts to me some guilty knowledge something's not right something's not right here something's not right here greg what do you got well i had a few more sprinkles on what you guys have already said too much eye contact way way too much eye contact mesmerizing eye contact she breaks eye contact at the end yes but during this time even when she's stammering as she's admitting that this was an unusual ransom note which is probably a point that people are using to establish guilt usually a ransom note would say hey give me some money i got your kid you know it wouldn't say you know victory to the whatever she said that's not usually what you expect you don't expect three pages you also if you did something and it has become the place that is the most scrutiny and you wrote a three-page thing you're giving a real handwriting sample on a level nobody has ever done and now they can compare it and then go look at your work now you you probably are feeling a little dumb about that so you may stammer and stutter your way through it way too much eye contact she's almost trying to give you uh we will never find this guy because this is such an unusual thing and uh this is just sprinkles on everything you guys said i agree all these pieces around distancing and all that usually a person would say whatever scumbag took my kid i want their head that's the way they approach it yeah now a lot of this is just her personality all that stuff but the chin down and all this together you should have a pretty good picture that we're all concerned here yeah that's it correct and the ransom note was already written i believe it was i mean it's very unusual for a ransom note to be this long i from what we understand from professionals we've talked with that after someone commits such a crime as this they you know get the heck out of there cool are we good yeah let's go along mrs ramsey your child's been killed brutally and then someone writes out this ransom note why do you think that's not feasible why do you think it was written before because i have been told by people who are experienced in this field that that is usually the way it happens i have no previous knowledge about these kind of things but we have been you know in conversation and in in we think about this every day every day and we've sought out you know the top people in the field that know about how the criminal mind works and this is what we're we're going on the profile that's in the book you know all of that information is not from john and for me this is from from people that know what they're doing all right chase what do you got if you're watching this do me the biggest favor of all time and watch this clip and only listen to her responses and see if somebody offered you a million dollars to figure out what she's talking about if you could figure it out this is the most generalized unspecific non-committal answer i've ever heard in any interview i think in my lifetime it's p those people these people these techniques this agency those agencies these people all arguments are arguments from authority or an argument on authority so if you told me oh i think she's on drugs and i my response will be oh where did you graduate pharmacology school that's the argument of authority and what what they're doing is something called borrowing authority so i am borrowing the authority of another agency or another group of people in order to make my story more believable or more palatable for people to like me more which certainly lead to maybe an innocent claim at the end but it would certainly lead to where i want somebody to start believing i'm going to wind up uh greg yeah what you call borrowing authority i call authority by association and she doesn't just borrow it she paid for it she tells you we have the experts there's a status claim here and there's a resume statement of sorts there i would say i paid for this expertise and i know so i agree with you there's that certainly up front she swallows really hard at the beginning of this did you all see that just the awkward now it's probably from the question before but it's still there she smiles awkwardly in the middle of this thing i don't get that of all the things it's kind of that condescending spot some of this is her baseline of snarkiness i mean it's just how she's wired i think but she is in the middle of a rambling to your point i mean there are not many questions and answers that are quite this messy but she's rambling and running off into the quicksand and he rescues her you see that when she said we uh she has a word pattern about this every day she has a word pattern shift that says we have been and she's not said that up to now any weird word pattern like that not just non-committal not just rambling but it's a weird word pattern for her remember she was a beauty queen she was a pageant person and presentation is everything to your point earlier even if you don't answer a question you probably have a long rhythmic process to it so i would say what are you what are you talking about here and i would probably be a little snarky back and push her a little bit and be critical and i'd get what she's got i guarantee you she would go at me to tell me how dumb i am and go from there so uh scott what do you got all right here we see the largest illustrators in the whole thing and when she says as she's going along she illustrates almost every word she's saying and um it's like she's answering to a child for the fifth time answering a question and she's not going to answer it anymore this is what people do when they when they're done when they're finished with it they're telling you they're finished with it they say i'm not you know but the interesting thing here is and i just caught this was that big head dip when she says um they're we have no previous knowledge of this but we when she says we her head goes it dips almost like she's bowing to the to this interviewer that lets me know she's done at this point she it's saying we're this is the last you're getting about this right now because her head goes low on the on that part of it and then she starts again back in what she just set up with all this data that means you know absolutely nothing when you sit down and try to write it out but when you listen to it it just go it's just like huffing and puffing is all that is as you go along there's nothing really there it's there but there's nothing there it's just all smoke and mirrors at that point um yeah but she's making sure she gets her point across she's done with that with that question so mark what do you got yeah so as the camera pans to her you get the lip groom so she really knows that the camera is moving on her again perception is really really important condescending lecturing tone almost to a child and that's what's eminently unlikable about her i want you to take a look at some of uh margaret thatcher's interviews because this is the most like thatcher that she is you see the nodding of the head and then the shaking of the head at the same time this is condescending downward low voice that is almost male in its way of pushing you down and telling you exactly how the world is it's not very likable is it and thatcher was never very likable and and neither is is is this lady here so uh so it has that cold kind of iron lady perception to it again we've got to be careful how that influences i our ideas about her i mean one of the things you probably want to do if you're in this kind of situation is be eminently likable so the public will be on your side and there's no way that the public is going to be on her side again because she doesn't have that sense of loss around her either so um so bad public perception from somebody who is all about public perception and hope you like my uh my thatcher impression there loved it mrs ramsey [Music] your child's been killed brutally and then someone writes out this ransom note why do you think that's not feasible why do you think it was written before because i have been told by people who are experienced in this field that that is usually the way it happens i have no previous knowledge about these kind of things but we have been you know in conversation and in in we think about this every day every day and we've sought out you know the top people in the field that know about how the criminal mind works and this is what we're we're going on the profile that's in the book you know all of that information is not from john and for me this is from from people that know what they're doing okay are we good yeah all right how is it that you are able to sit here and talk about the body and it's your daughter i have to kind of put it in a clinical perspective rather than emotionally when i can to talk about it like this you know we have a strong faith all right greg what do you got yeah this one the speech pattern shifts she's almost childlike in her recall of what she should say now here's the thing guys i'm also going to go with you mark if one of us we're being questioned we're in trouble because we would not be likable because we would be informing and telling you how things are and it's just in the way we're wired she shifts here and when they ask her now if you ask me about bodies and that kind of thing in in my past life or chase well we probably have a little more experience in that world than is normal but when it's your own child i'm going to tell you that seeing somebody else's body that i don't know probably wouldn't affect me nearly as much as someone i love i've seen quite a few bodies in my life and when you lose someone in your family that is a devastating thing this is awfully clinical to talk about it but it's also childlike so this is probably one of the few places where i start to say well there's a soft side of her and she's trying to say whatever and then she goes up and her accessing changes she's not focused on you and making eye contact and trying to hypnotize you she is doing something else she's recalling and thinking and she's avoiding eye contact which is actually more endearing of her than anything she's done and now if she'd looked at you and said well i just compartmentalized it you would think yeah this woman needs to go somewhere so there's that chase what do you got i think they they publicly announce that they're doing all this from a clinical perspective which i think is is them saying this is why you're not seeing emotion this is why you're not seeing our grief that's the way that they can explain this and some people might say well that you know we're not seeing a lot of grief here because they're numb after this experience it's it's an experience yeah we watched the mccanns for example and they were really numb and we'll get back to in a second but when she does this she's gesturing off to her right side when she's talking about something horrible like something horrible that she needs to get out gesturing to her right side and this is important later if i was interrogating or interviewing her when i want her to be emotional i'll move to that other side the opposite from where she was associating this clinical part and i'm also going to gesture with that hand to make her look over that direction to make her use eye accessing in that direction and when people say oh maybe they're numb and that's the reason they just don't show any emotion there's a ton of emotion here it's fear social approval seeking anger and disagreement we see a lot of it here and people who are spent or empty on emotions are just numb after an experience like this they're numb from all emotions not just one and i think this is an attempt to explain the lack of feeling about the issue but when emotions are there you're not numb to the experience mark yeah so i totally agree and i and i buy in from this video to her idea of compartmentalization she's very clear about uh where she's where she's placed it and she seems to be clear to me about where the feelings are and that she's not accessing those now she's put it in a little package uh over here and her eyes go all around the house to get from one to another so i think she she really is experiencing and truly has packaged up the the story and the emotions in different places um but the important thing is it comes across very very cold and again from a perception point of view it doesn't work well for us so she comes across as cold that easily makes us feel like she is calculating and then inhuman and at that point we've dehumanized her at that point you know we can turn her into doing horrific crimes i don't know whether she did or not but all i'm saying is because of her behavior right now it's easy for us to dehumanize her and make her the bad person she could well be maybe she isn't but it's easy for us to put her there so we've got to be careful about about that uh scott what do you got all right i don't think she's thought about compartmentalizing anything at this point however she has compartmentalized like you said mark everything every because it's it's this is years later and she's been able to put everything in a box i'm going to talk about this this is what i talk about we'll talk about this and this is what i talk about so when you get called to do a gig somewhere all of us you go do a keynote what is what is it for oh it's for the military okay i know the things i'm going to go deep here are the things i always cover on the deep stuff then i want to go talk to a dental assistants and then you it goes small a lot of the same stuff but you just don't go as deep on anything because you legally can't but you don't go as deep on anything so she's compartmentalized all this stuff and that's where she's got hers over here she's a compartment a lot of what she thinks about her over here so as a as a as a whole everything's got its own spot and that's all she's talking about because i think this whole thing has been compartmentalized for her she keeps it in a box and then she brings it up and then she starts looking at the different separate parts of it mentally that's that's what i'm getting from that in five years is a long time you you can do a lot of compartmentalization in five years yeah i will say this the rule of thumb to go off of in compartmentalization the more a person feels like what they did that they need to compartmentalize or what they witnessed was a result of doing something good or doing the right thing the easier it is to branch off and scoot somewhere else yep well that's it's the reason soldiers can box things in a lot easier than the other guys right yeah yeah yeah we've and we've all seen seen and been um witness to a lot of horrible stuff in in our gigs and when and you have to have a place to do that because if you don't when you come home it'll eat you up you know it'll start getting everywhere so i think everybody compartmentalizes and i think this is just observing somebody explaining what that is for maybe the first time possibly how is it that you are able to sit here and talk about the body from your daughter i have to kind of put it in a clinical perspective rather than emotionally when i can to talk about it like this you know we have a strong faith so all right we good yeah this book the death of innocence your pictures on the cover why your picture about your daughters on the cover this is our story i mean there have been i think this is now the tenth book i'm understanding that has been written about this case you know we are the only ones that know what has happened to us since jonbenet's death no one else this is a story only we can tell i was even a bit uncomfortable putting her picture on the back all right chase what do you got why would it be a story and not an ordeal an experience a trauma our suffering our history our family it's a story i think that's an interesting choice of words there and this offering of uh discomfort means nothing in terms of the question of true events when he's talking about i was actually uncomfortable to put this photo on the cover and i think it's incredible to hear that it's it's our story not her story it's ours and i just think that's an unusual choice of words maybe she's looping in jonbenet with the word ours i won't claim to know that but i will claim to know that she did not credit her daughter in the story at all directly scott i agree completely i think she's she's it's john bonay's story so that's what you'd be telling what happened but maybe she's leaning toward the section of here's what we went through for her story you know so maybe that's what she's talking about was our story or whatever but i think maybe she separated the child from this whole thing i mean it's all about the child but she's not telling the story like like you just said chase of talking about the child at all greg what do you got yeah so this to me is her baseline it's all about me it's all about me it's about us you need to listen this is our story this is about us other people shouldn't be writing our stories what i'm hearing so yeah this is not makes her not likeable and mark i don't think we can say enough times doesn't mean she killed anybody i do think when you are forthcoming there's not a lot of smoke and mirrors and stuff about your kid dying you know if you talk about somebody whether murdered or some something else you'll get to clear easy points if i'm going to tell you a story about something that happened five years ago and losing a child i'm going to be very clear about what happened i don't need to make it a big deal and a song and dance and about me it's going to be about what happened and where it's gone look these are all well-known facts and it makes you feel like someone is hiding something in my world when somebody looks like they're hiding something it's usually guilty knowledge that's and we'll always say you can't tell what happened but you can certainly say we need to lift the covers on this when something's up and that's what i see mark you want to bring it home yeah so so why does this make the public feel really bad and i think the interviewer hits the nail on the head here people don't understand how you are past the loss of this that's the big problem with this we as a public go i i wouldn't have let her go uh so quickly i'd still be in loss and mourning why because she wasn't ours in the first place but we've made her ours she became a uh jean benay became really an icon of the death of innocence a beauty that gets taken away for no apparent reason she is almost an urban legend she is mythology and so the parent i think at this point is going you can't have that this is now my story i'm going to take control of that and we don't like that because we don't want to dead we don't want that child dead we want to keep that child alive and the parent here is really killing that child for us and going she's not even on the cover we don't even want her on the back this is our story now so we don't see the value i think of of that maneuver that the parents are doing we may have our arguments for why it isn't valuable but we've got to see from their point of view why it may be valuable to them again i don't know who's culpable who's who's guilty of of anything here all i know is that in this interview she is wholly unlikable and i think we've got some of the reasons why we don't like her and we've got to be really careful that uh that we understand that that's going to bias us in our judgments and the stories we make up about her there i'll leave it at that this book the death of innocence your pictures on the cover why you're picturing not your daughters on the cover this is our story i mean there have been i think this is now the tenth book i'm understanding that has been written about this case you know we are the only ones that know what has happened to us since jonbenet's death no one else this is a story only we can tell i was even a bit uncomfortable putting her picture on the back all right let's throw it around the room and let's come up with uh two words for what you think is going on here greg jury's out how about you chase uh guilty knowledge mark guilty of bad public perception i know it's not two words but i don't do two words all right mine would be uh i don't know i don't know what i'd say i don't know what i'd say i don't have two words for it i talk too much all right well thanks you guys so much if you like what we're doing please subscribe and click the little bell so you know we have a new video come out and don't forget to go to the back one more time or back to the 911 call the second part and let us know what you think is being said in there so we will read it oh yeah no kidding all right i'll see you guys next time bye now [Music] later [Music] is

Channel: The Behavior Panel

Views: 297,447

Rating: 4.8334694 out of 5

Keywords: jonbenet ramsey, ramsey, jonbenet, jonbenet ramsey brother, jonbenet ramsey case, dr phil, jonbenet ramsey story, jonbenet ramsey movie, john ramsey, burke ramsey, patsy ramsey, jonbenet ramsey house, the case of jonbenet ramsey, jon benet ramsey, jonbenét ramsey, jonbenet ramsey parents, jonbenet brother, dr phil jonbenet, burke ramsey interview, body language, body language analysis, dr phil burke ramsey, burke ramsey dr phil, who killed jonbenet ramsey, 20/20, abc 20/20

Id: Hss-ncQYZTI

Length: 63min 26sec (3806 seconds)

Published: Wed Jan 13 2021

Reddit Comments

[u/SequoiasHuman]

My gut reaction to this interview is that she sounds like she's talking to a child who is asking the same question over and over again. She seems annoyed, like she wants to say "What part of that doesn't make sense to you?" Trying to pinpoint what it is that sends that message, I think it's the way she makes big motions with her hands and her head, but she doesn't emote with her face.

[u/ariceli]

This was so interesting. It puts into words what many of us believe is not genuine behavior when we see and hear Patsy. I have a family member who is a pathological liar and for the first time ever I saw how similar she is to Patsy. Doesn’t mean she killed her daughter but I continue to believe she has not been truthful.

[u/yellow_scarecrow]

wow that was really good, thanks for introducing me to these guys I am hooked 😀

[u/rawtortillacheeks]

yes! i love the behavior panel guys! they give such interesting perspectives

[u/sixsixsam]

Thanks for sharing. This is soooo interesting!

[u/2cool2fresh]

this was dope!!! i never heard of them. now i’m watching the carole baskin one. lol. subscribed 👍🏼

[u/ZenMoonstone]

A lot of distancing language for sure. When she said this is “our” story and seemingly leaves out Jon Benet it’s like, no lady, this IS the story of Jon Benet.

[u/redditredditanon]

That was so interesting, thanks for sharing!!

I think they made a great point that she is SO unlikable that it is easy to be biased and assume guilt. I think a lot of it was just her personality, arrogance and annoyed attitude... I will say that if she has nothing to do with JBR’s death, I can understand that she was tired of these questions and accusations and angry at them too. If you lose a child in such a horrific way, imagine the icing on the cake being people accusing you of having something to do with it.

I find her 911 call to show genuine panic and emotion and I don’t think she knows who killed JBR, however I also read some of her body language as off and some of the pieces of evidence do point towards something very unusual having happened, it’s just not a normal intruder crime, the ransom note etc make no sense.

Like the guys in the video I also sense that she is hiding something, she has some sort of knowledge she is hiding - i wonder if it has to do something with JBR showing signs of having been previously sexually assaulted.

[u/super_common_name]

Does anyone else think the way she says "Oh, my God!" sounds off? I keep trying to figure out if that's regional or what.

To me, the inflection is wrong. The first time I heard the recording I thought something new happened that she was reacting to. Like she was about to say, "I just found her hair ribbon on the front porch" for example. But no. She hadn't received any new info to say "Oh, my God" about.

Later, I thought it sounded like an irritated exclamation. Like, "Oh, my God, you're not doing anything!" Like the 911 operator was asking her stupid questions and wasting time. But that wasn't the situation.

I would expect her to say, "Oh, my God" but I would expect it to sound less high-pitched, and to end on a lower note than it started. Her pitch rises on "God" where I would expect it to stay about the same or be slightly lower. Like more of a mourning, grieving, muttering in shock sound. Not a surprised sound.

What do you all think?