Mel Brooks, Robert Altman, Peter Bogdanovich, Frank Capra Dick Cavett Show 1972

the dick cabage [Music] show tonight Dick's guests are directors Robert Alman Peter bonovich Mel Brooks Frank cpra and Bob Rosen garden and the orchestra ladies and gentlemen dick [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] cabin why did I come over here you like me oh see last night one of the cameramen was on a great deal because I learned how to use the camera the night before last I mean and so the other cameraman I feel must feel a little uh jealous don't you you want to do it again no I don't remember anything that I learn this of course is one of our best cameramen his name is uh Henry Henry and he uh he works here you know if I seem to be killing time it's because I don't have any planned for the beginning I I ran out of funny stuff this is the fifth show of the week and I used it all on the four shows so the only thing I thought of I might do is surprised to technicians for you may know that I have worn this microphone that has bothered me for so long because I have to wear a big pack here that has the transmitter in it but the advantage of it is that it will work anywhere I go in the theater I was told and one night I ran into the balcony and it didn't work I'm going to check it and see if it'll work can I just check [Music] it is it working it is okay take a break is it is it on is it working okay I just had to find out why do I look like Boris Carlo up here can't we light these people better than that look we I now I have to go back I have a job down there what are you ladies doing in here that's it it's a whole group of of ladies listen we have an interesting show because we have all film directors and so many people are a lot of kids are only staying in college because they're film courses which may or may not be fortunate but uh since there's so much to talk to these four men about I will be back downstairs in a moment but first someone in your family have a sore throat here's a reminder can you read that off for me why the sore throat season calls for asperum of course we'll be right [Applause] back my first guest is a man who directed MH and Brewster McLoud and mccab and Mrs Miller and he's also the man who once said an interesting thing he said no one has ever made a good movie that should be that could be the theme of our conversation tonight I think maybe he's being too modest but here's a clip from mash m and uh after that we will meet Robert Alman take a look at this Captain [Music] Peterson what are you two hoods doing in this hospital ma'am we are surgeons and we are here to operate we're just waiting for a starting time that's all well you can't even go near a patient until Colonel Merill says it's okay and he's still out to lunch look mother I want to go to work in one hour we are the pros from do and we figure to crack this kid's chest and get out to the golf course before it gets dark so you go find the gas passer and you have him premedicate this patient then bring me the latest pictures on them the ones we saw must be 48 Hours old by now then call the kitchen and have them russle us up some lunch him and eggs will be all right steak would be even better and give me at least one ner who knows how to work in close without getting her in my way how do you want your steak cooked welcome the it does it seem odd to see a little bit of the movie after this long like that does it yeah the last time I saw it was here I think we showed some of that before maybe even the that same part what what does it feel like when you see a film a year later do you have a critical eye for things you might have done over well U it's embarrassing but I like it you like it yeah it's surprising you know that when Orson Wells was here he would not he honestly backstage would not look at his Clips when they were on the screen he just embarrassing he's more sensible than I am because I still like what I do say who is that actor who was so brilliant in mccab and Mrs Miller and he was the um the big tall man at the end the Marksman oh hum he's a that was he's never acted before that was his first that's funny cuz I thought his name sound familiar I watched the crawl and then I forgot the name he's never actually his grandfather was a painter yeah but he just um I just used him in a very uh much larger role in the film I just finished now how can you take a guy who hasn't acted and know that it's not going to be a a disaster well he's not expensive so the replacement is easy and uh he uh I I just felt that that well basically Hugh is a sort of a con man anyway so he's been acting all his life and it was very easy he did exactly the same thing that he does yeah he was so good at that um what do you mean by this mysterious quote that nobody um in an article wasn't it you said about nobody ever made has ever really made a good movie no I what I said was that I feel that the the medium of film has not yet really been explored in other words I think that when we started uh a film we took it from theater literature and we were an extension of of another art form and uh it's still that way it's getting away from it and I think that eventually somebody will make a film that is purely a film and the audience can respond to as such and I don't think it's been done how could it not have anything to do with anything else I mean it has to have dialogue doesn't it and it has to have well no uh I think it's well they didn't for a long time didn't they come to think of it I think it's like a painting an experience it's got the only limitations are the the linear ones it has length it has its beginning and an end it takes a certain amount of time but uh the I think that idea the audience can look at a film emotionally get the whole thing and uh not necessarily be able to explain to to somebody else they say Hey how' you like the picture I liked it should they be able to tell what it means yeah to them I think they should to to themselves they should feel and know what it means and it's it happens in in sections of films that you see today you you get an impression yeah and you know what it means but you can't articulate it you must have um you must make script writers Furious because you will let the actors improvise things make up things and you'll shoot even rehearsals sometimes don't you or was is that true that you shot some rehearsals for Mash well well we didn't man was we had to but we U uh I mean the whole picture was getting out of hand yeah but um the U the film I just finished was was my own screenplay and I must say to any writers out there that I treated mine worse than I did any of yours treated yours what was my own scream or your own script I see but it's not I I don't consider that we're misusing the screenplay we use it as it's a guide and it's I'm trying to just bring the impression the behavior that the author intended or that that we all intended to uh the best way possible do you have any idea why we're so different I'm thinking of one certain thing I know about you and that is to look at you look like maybe a quiet conservative businessman but uh but you can get drunk and stay out all night night and couple of nights and then go right to work and I've heard this anyway I don't know if it's true if I did that I would be rolled in flat on my face to work and I would have to have a transfusion and sent home well I I or have I no I I misrepresented you no I I sometimes don't sleep as much as I should yeah but I'm afraid of the dark and and uh I I'm worried that I can't really do what I have to do the next day so I stay awake and ignore it is that what it is you'll stay up because you don't want to have the the horrible come with going to sleep I think so yeah gee I I really look at a film and I think there's no way to do this tomorrow and uh and then after I see a film I say how how did they do that I don't know how it gets done do you have any Heroes and among the filmmakers oh a lot I think the the U primarily the the early uh filmmakers in Hollywood who you know I'm always asked uh being a late arrival to the critics and things I'm always asked what who are your favorite who influenced you and and what directors influenc you and the truth of it is I probably don't know their names because I was very influenced when I was very young by films but I didn't know there was a director it's strange to think there was an age when people didn't go to movies because of a certain director but because of who's in the movies and yeah now so now directors are stars in a very odd way which may not be good maybe we can talk about St let's take let's take a little uh March through time with bird's eye frozen orange plus we'll be back thought we'd get everybody out relatively early and then we can all talk my next guest is one Oscars for a short called the critic and his funny movie The Producers melbrook is always been known as one of the funniest people around no one ever thought anyone would ever trust him with making a movie here's one of the creators of TVs get smart he started in a very funny movie of his own called 12 chairs and now he's uh well if he never did anything but the incredible 2,000 year old man he would be justly famous but anyway uh let's take a look at um this scene from The Producers which if you'd haven't seen the film will probably upset you in some ways and make you laugh in others and until you know what it's all about it must be astounding to just see it like this will you uh take a look at the scene from mail books The Producers [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] the [Applause] again talk about bad [Applause] [Music] taste [Music] [Applause] [Music] here's the man who gave us that better good evening ladies and germs and welcome to a bang up variety show presented by for the boys here at the big DC show we have a SW high class show tonight stly loads of talent lots of laughs and I'm going to be your compare that's French for MC that's initials for metal case but I want to tell you about as you see Mr Brooks is just one of the everyday people uh how can you come out and do that first of all I always when that clip was shown once before it's it's been seen on television before there always a lot of people who everybody who who get all everybody got coffee in the green room but me yeah so I want my coffee look at the spoons they have oh beautiful and and so I always feel that seeing the scene out of context is very diff are you going to drink coffee right here now a little yes yeah okay um out of context out of context are there other people who want I think we ought to get George and Bill and we ought to have a meeting because everything is out of context there was no reason for lieutenant Merrick to uh take command of the cane as far as I could see uh you just ask questions and I'll answer them to the best of my ability how uh how did you get people to give you the money to do a movie when you walk in like this I don't know that picture astonishing thing I that picture cost about a million bucks yeah and uh and in case anyone didn't get it that was supposed to be that musical was supposed to represent the worst possible taste in a musical according to the plot we don't need to go into it any further well they were trying to put on a flop and I and and it backfired because the the the the Jews didn't believe it yeah they couldn't believe that anything like that would be piperr on them again yeah so they assumed it was funny and it was a big hit and that caused a lot of trouble for our protagonist bear and Bloom the the the leading characters in in the flim film film film what were you doing when that that fertile idea was born in your Nimble brain what do you mean was I wrote it but when it I know but I mean you must have sat down and thought I don't have an idea for a movie yet and then there was another moment where you did have a moment for movie an idea I was doing IAH I was doing a show mhm and the producer of the show Broadway show said uh look they they want a release so what are you what are we doing next what are we doing next what what give me a title mhm I said we're doing a musical called Springtime for Hitler tell him that he said I I can't I can't tell him that I said you tell him that we're doing Springtime for Hitler so Ed padulla was the producer he was a little worried he said okay yeah he said we're doing Springtime for Hitler next and they said who's in it they well we're not sure you know we just we right past them we just gave them the title you know yeah and then about a year later I said what a wonderful title Springtime for Hitler now if I can uh get some idea underneath that you know a story or something I would be very happy so I thought I said well let me see spring time for Hitler if it is a show it's probably the worst show ever in the worst possible taste and I worked back from that and I thought of a Broadway producer and then I I thought of a you know a Jee Wild Car Leo Bloom and and from there on it was uh fun and easy yeah is any of your own life in the movie all all of it all of it it is really autobiographical yeah see because I was v i friend 27 days you know France Poland a half hour no more po you know you're very convincing whatever we want we take we now in Argentina all of us is it true that you receive the stolen paintings they take from museums that they go into your collections and I will not speak unless here found ribbon trop is on my right to protect me from the vess of your young [ __ ] [Applause] right would you like a piece of goat cheese goat cheese how so how so so I have a piece for you where where is it it's right here is it really goat cheese yeah it's really good did you want to split it it was in my lunch and I know how you like goat cheese and I I'll have a little bit I brought that for you H it's good is it it's feta cheese it's what feta feta Fe ta Greek cheese goat cheese did they have that in Yugoslavia when you were making your film wood we ate wood had not I see there was nothing to do at night there was no fun Tito had the car okay we will be right back after this message for my local station try and conduct yourself with a little deportment oh well he's the conductor why you talk to him I must get right into this because of we're going to lose our film machine in a moment my my next guest is the young director whose second film The Last Picture Show has been an enormous success all his life he has wanted to make movies and he did he knows just about everything there to know about movies from being a film histor and a Critic all kinds of things um anyway the Piece Film you're about to see is from that movie The Last Picture Show and um then we will welcome him but let's take a look at that first hey why don't you take care of the car for me what your mom don't need it I wouldn't want her driving it no better than she can drive you might help her take the groceries home you got the time okay you ever uh you ever hear from ji no not thing she don't get home much ain't been back town since August I guess she just stays in Dallas all the time yeah probably does I guess there's a lot to do down Dallas ain't over yet you know ain't over yet damn insane welcome director and movie fanatic Peter mdov well are you going to stay in the movie business or are you thinking of changing professions I want to run a late night talk show you're never satisfied are you you know uh I guess um if anybody ever got to do what they really want always wanted to do it's you making pictures uh are these rumors true that you've spent probably 80% of your life either seeing movies reading about them writing about them or cutting them up or something not cutting them up I never cut a picture till I did one you know your own yeah but uh seeing them yeah yeah and writing about them a little bit but seeing them a lot they also have there's number of myths about you already even though you're very young like the fact that you had a goal set for yourself that you would make a movie at the same age Orson Wells did oh I wanted to I thought I'd be a failure if I didn't make a movie at least by the time or I was 25 which is when Orson made Citizen Kane and I was a disaster Master cuz I didn't make one until I was 27 yeah so I thought I was a real flop how did you ever convince anybody to make the film in black and white I for years have wanted to see a movie in black and white and I don't think there's been one since you still have it that's right I haven't seen your film I was supposed to see it before you got here tonight and I couldn't and now I will see it after you get here and you can come back and ask me how I how you like like seen it yeah it's a good picture it's all right it's good oh okay what a relief you like it well you know uh black and white it every people ask me that and and it I wish I had a great story to tell but but it was so simple that it was embarrassing I just said to the producers gee I'd like to shoot this in black and white cuz uh we took some test footage of all the towns in Texas these dreary sad towns and we shot them in color the tests you know I shot them with the 16 mm can they all look pretty yeah cuz color does that you know so I we ran them for the produc I said this isn't what we want is it they said no I says well let's shoot in black and white they said oh you want to shoot in black and white I said yeah okay so they talked to the they went and talked to Colombia and Colombia evidently didn't have any objection and uh maybe they did but I never heard about it and they came back to me and said okay and then I got nervous because you sure you want to do it in black and white yeah it was just really that simple that no one would dare make a movie in black and white because it would kill the television resale well John slesinger told me that he wanted to make Sunday Bloody Sunday in Black white and they wouldn't let him so it is true mhm but I just was lucky he had good producers but I can't believe people are still that fascinated with color that they just go to the movies to see color move around on the screen I don't think so and the and the last picture show is successful at the box office and so uh it disproves that theory would you have the nerve mail to have asked to make a movie in black and white for color blind people uh I don't know I think no I think that uh black and really seriously making a picture in black and white could be an Arty trick you know just just a just a kind of gimmick but unless it's truly indigenous to to the uh local and the theme and you know the story and and uh it is indeed proper it is proper you know in in the last pict I don't think every picture should be in black and white you know I think color is wonderful and I just did a picture now in color so I'm not always doing in Black I was on a I was on a plane with garon Kanan and we were taking off and there was this beautiful sunset and we looked out and he says look at that and I said yeah it's beautiful he says I suppose you see it in black and white you should have Zapped him for that we've take a station break we'll be right [Applause] back Mr Brooks has been treating the studio audience to a little musical during the during the break I was marvelous I thought you were yes so much of you is wasted by just simply directing movies and things yes and I and I do I'm a very good dancer very good Ballroom very good Ballroom very good Bogart which is very tough your Bogart is good your your Ballroom everything that starts with B you do well yes yes they're way ahead okay okay okay Frank kapra won an Oscar in he didn't win an Oscar in 1934 didn't it happen one night when five yeah at least I was going to say five Oscars for every the five top Oscars I suppose that year for maybe the most successful comedy ever put on film both stars in the film one Oscars and um you wouldn't have any trouble identifying them I don't think in the scene in which they have to pretend to be man and wife want to take a look at that come here you know I hope and Bella has a boy don't you Grandma say's going to be a girl though she has miss calling one in years man here to see your sweethart who me you want to see me what's your name are you addressing me yeah what's your name hey wait a minute that's my wife you're talking to what do you mean coming here what do you want anyway we're looking for somebody yeah well look your head off but don't come busting in here this isn't a public park I can Nur to take a sock at you take it easy son take it easy these men are detectives Mr I don't care if they're the whole police department they can't come bus in here shooting questions of my way now don't get so excited Peter the man just ask you a simple question oh is that so say how many times have I told you to stop butting in when I'm having an argument well you don't have to lose your temper you don't have to lose your temper one of the Giants Frank does that bring back any particular memories or does it it all blur well uh no that that's a wonderful scene I think between those two those two people they were they were just made for the that that particular part those particular parts and clar Gable that's the real clar Gable very few people have ever seen but that's the way he really was in life you see in as as he was in that film or as he was just in that scene as he was in that well this like like comic yeah yeah that's the way he was and that's the way he was not in many other pictures it's too bad it's the the real car cable I think is just did he worry about things like that like whether a film was right for him or not he should do it no he didn't uh he actually he actually thought every day was his last you know he thought he said this just this this can't go on you know this has got to end this H this happy Cinderella story he thought he was he didn't think he was a very good actor feeling he's one of those men who always thought it was a kind of odd profession for a man to be in well he was that that stage so but he didn't think he was very good ever and he certainly didn't didn't think he was a star it wasn't it was going to end he became one of one of our greatest yeah and is it true that CL Co bear was not supposed to originally play that part it h no but uh we had four or five girls turn the part down that's quite a long story about everybody turning it down turning the part down and we only got her because she was on vacation and we we uh we offered her twice as much money for four weeks and we finished her with her in four weeks and she didn't after the after the show was over she thought it was one of the worst pictures she ever made so never TR whole story of this picture is really fantastic can I just ask you one little silly trivial question before we take a break here um how did you make it look so convincingly cold in Lost Horizon I know people who saw that movie watched it with the with their coats on in some cases well try being realistic was a fetic with me I tried to uh photograph things as they really were and one of the things that I was always trying to do was uh show people's best uh showing when it was really cold that's what was always missing in cold SC I tried it once with an actor uh before and I almost killed the poor fellow I I found out that if you I tried it with uh dry ice I put dry ice in little cages and I put the little cages in the actor's mouth and it worked all right all right but they couldn't talk with it you see so so this hbert BOS with a picture called derable I put it into his mouth we were supposed to be on the south sea Islands South SE uh South uh pole South Pole South Pole and and he was supposed to plant the flag on the South Pole in the name of the United States well he put this thing in his mouth and this great big bird cage and and he couldn't talk with it and he say in the name of you fin he got so uh desperate he took the thing out he said you what I can't talk with this thing you want coal I'll give you coal he took the pill and put in his mouth a dry ice and he began to talk and suddenly he was on the ground grumbling in absolute pain and we rushed him into the hospital and he lost his whole three three teeth and part of his upper uh jaw just Frozen I'm putting actual dry ice in his yes so I this what happened to one man where I tried to get the rest show but now get the Lost Horizon I was had to find some other way yeah so I figured out I would think well why not shooting where it's actually cold where where where where was it cold an ice house I went to an ice house mhm fish house and uh here here it was down in 15 degrees and loaded with fish logs like you know and uh so we we threw out the fish and brought in the actors that's nice way of putting it we have a message we'll be right back Revlon fabul uh hey can we do that together I'll do it in harmony with you talking Harmony okay of course here we go from the top all right are you normal voice and I'll be an octave about what key should we do this in no your normal voice I'll pick it up all right right R fabulash can make a big change in your eyelashes you'll see your lashes get longer right before your eyes eyes near very nice yeah you have a strangely high voice yes I'm call Mr Harmony I can harmonize with anything I can harmonize with an animal I can harmonize with a gentile any human I do a lot of Harmony did you start to say it yes I can talk I'm easily offended no I I don't want to offend you God has hardly offended you by giving you short stature and I am not going to contribute to that you know I make a joke you're one of the best looking short people I've ever thank you very and the worst host I've ever met I'm a stubby Little Dream aren't I you broke me so is yourself listen now now that we have everyone out here um let's pin one thing down for all time and then maybe it'll never have to come up on a talk show again and that is is Hollywood dying as we constantly hear or is it not gentlemen well I think Mr kapper knows more about I I've never personally I've never made I made two films uh that makes me a director I'm sitting here with other directors I made two pictures so I really don't know anything about really making movies both my films were made um outside of you know the Hollywood precincts one was in New York and the other one was you you you go go you go right that's my home country you know take it easy not only that but John Simon the film critic comes from there John Simon I don't know him that may be his that may be the problem I he's in my new movie you know how do you mean that I mean that an actor and he's playing a part no no no uh John Simon uh uh is impersonated in my new movie by an actor that Mel used in in the producers named U Ken Kenneth Mars and what did he play in The Producers oh well I there's no he played the Nazi in the producers but he was France leapin the man with the helmet oh yeah lekin love child France leapin K yes but in in in what's up doc uh Kenneth plays a a fell named Hugh Simon who is the heavy that's very close to John Simon lot people will guess yes yeah does he know I mean does he I don't think he knows now but does this have anything to do with his saying on the show the other night that you had a misspent youth living in cinema no I've always thought he was a very shoddy critic and one who didn't know anything about pictures and so wait wait he's going to say good now long wait for the Valentine long time ago he uh somebody sent me a book of his to review when I was I used to be a Critic you know and and they sent me and I reviewed it for the that's all right and for the I reviewed it for the Washington Pro post and I I I had never read his stuff and they sent me this book it came to me cold and I read it it was a terrible book with all kinds of terrible mistakes in it I mean factual mistakes forget about the critical uh errors in judgment which I didn't deal with it was just factual errors and I wrote this review and and uh I've always thought he's always been sort of a a pain you know and so and he there's no there's no good coming no and and he's such a he's such a pompous poop you know that that's the good there was the compliment you were waiting for that that I I had this character in the movie uh this rival to Ryan O'Neal and I thought there's the character you know this kind of European uh uh pseudo intellectual you know and I sort of thought that'd be fun to to have him play that I see but do you like John Simon that's the part we're trying we got a little off the track um oh you asked if Hollywood we'll find out if Hollywood let's find that out after this message okay we'll be right [Music] back Mr kaer we all agreed during the break that with your list of stunning films we all like to hear you talk about whether you think Hollywood is a is a dying business that's been said many times before that Hollywood has been dying business been said over and over probably every 10 years or so it's get gets said Hollywood is down at the moment yes down perhaps unemployment is there but Hollywood is never going do if Hollywood means anything to films all I all I can say is that films are not going to die I tell you that they got to be made somewhere if not in Hollywood made someplace else uh films are the greatest of all out art forms it's an artart form that that comprises all the others uses all the others as tools it's probably the the only art form that's the new the only art form that's been created in the last probably five or 6 thousand years or so uh and uh and I agree with Bob Al when he says the the good pictures are yet to be made they are yet to be made because uh we haven't we haven't really scratched the surface of it's enormous tool that we have in our hands that uh fill so maybe Hollywood is dying as a geographical point but films are not dying and the film art is not dying the film art is just waiting for somebody to make some good films that's all well sometimes they say the old Hollywood is dead and at least one if it is good because a lot of those swine like Harry con who used to tyrannize people when he ran Columbia Studios and all I'm sort of quoting people are no longer around and at least that era is over well I think we he comes off very rather appealingly in your book I mean you apparently knew how to deal with him and you always hear of him as the worst rat who ever lived in Hollywood well he ran his Studio on a very CR uh crass you know crude uh uh method if he uh if he could bully you he didn't want you around but if you could stand up to him he wanted you and he' gave you all the all the all the the the the the control that you wanted to your films so I think uh U he was a very very good thing for Hollywood Harry K when you first met him were you scared Everybody's scared of Harry con every he he had such a reputation of being a monster and he was he was he was all the dirty things everybody called him but he was also a tremendous uh Catalyst for films he loved films and uh uh I just think we could use several Harry coin right now in uh Hollywood at the moment I think we missed the you think there was an advantage to the Cohen in the sense that at least it was one man running the studio instead of a a bunch of cooks a great Advantage he could make he could say he could say yes or no once he said yes it was yes you you you didn't have to bother with anybody else but now you have to get a uh concessions from lawyers for agents and from uh financing and from Banks and from oil companies and everything else people non-creative people are running this Hollywood at the moment and if we get back to uh some creative people running Hollywood we'll get back into the Swim Things Coen and U Jack Warner uh who I never got along with but at least like you said they love films and they were monarchs and they didn't pass it on but these clowns today you know they're in the hotel business in the they don't they don't uh have the wonder who you're talking about I was talking about Jim Aubrey and Doug n people we missed some of the other names uh well that's what I always think they mean when Hollywood is dead you have to deal with these conglomerates and how can a man make a film while I was waiting for a phone call to find out if the board of a sawdust packaging company likes a scpt there was a tradition it was some kind of a tradition of of U art and money you know an amalgam of Art and money but at least there was some tradition I mean I I I I despise uh the very thing that you were talking about what Peter was talking about that um the Kenny parking lots are you know are are making movies and there there really isn't any traditional Saul urick or well you know an lb mayor or Jack Warner I met Harry con I I was brought out in 1952 I was doing the show of shows and Freddy comar who produced a lot of wonderful pictures for Columbia brought me out and introduced me to Jerry wal who's running the studio at the time he a wonderful picture maker too Jerry wal and a writer and a very Dynamic guy and uh I uh I went to a meeting I didn't know where I was going uh Jerry said come come on Harry call the meeting meeting oh good I'm meeting I love a meeting so I went down to the barber shop and Harry con was in the was in the barber chair straight out straight he was being shaven straight out yeah flat out and uh there were about 20 Executive Studio guys sitting around the barber shop and I sat next to Freddy comar and Jerry wal you know and the barber moved them around like mobile artillery like name people yeah he'd say Joanie Taps Wang they'd swing him around and Joanie Taps and say I didn't I don't know why so it didn't make money you can't all make money it was a lot of black and white shoes the things you like Harry and a lot of talk like that see and then on the on one of the swings he said who's that kid and I I said I'm not here I didn't know what this I said I'm not here Mr KH I'm simply not here and you know what he said good and that's it like that boy and one more story with him when I was hired uh I I don't know I think Alfred Hayes had my office before me and I when I came in I saw that they took his name out out of the door out and they put put my name in and it scared me Zip Zap a name a person I didn't want to open the door I thought he was dead behind the door you know and and so I got crazy and on that same day the lunch hour I went down there was like a four-story building Columbia on G and I changed all the names like I took the names from the top floor I slid them all out I put them on the bottom and I took the names from the bottom and I put them on the third floor and the third floor I put on the second floor and somebody somebody caught me and they brought me up to Harry con's office he said why did you why why did you do that we didn't we don't need that do you know the heart attacks you caused you know we hire and fire people every two minutes I mean you know the I got lawyers agents calling why did you what I said well I just for a joke I did it for a joke he said well how do you like this joke you're finished you're through and then uh I Fir and then Jerry wall uh he went up and he did a lot of pleading and said please give him a break as he he's young he's bright he's good he's Jewish he's nice he's short whatever and event so Harry con said all right all right clip off a few hundred a week something you know but it kept me there you're a legend yourself we have a message we'll be right back I had on I was just looking through Frank kapper's book which film Buffs are snapping up wherever they can get it it's called the name above the title and it's just full of wonderful stuff the your first meeting with Harry con where you decided to get tough with him was the best way to handle him is is a classic um I can any could any of you make a film without being completely in control of it U we all know how Orson Wells feels about that or don't we well of course Orson was uh orson's a lot of orson's pictures have been recut and I know you had Blake Edwards on the air talking about that about recutting and so on and and uh I imagine everybody here I I haven't had that awful thing happened but I I imagine you've had some experience with people fooling around with your pictures no you have I caught him I'd shoot him great but Orson Orson did a picture called Magnificent amerson's which was uh totally recut by a kind of group method you know like what you were alluding to I think at another studio and uh and what Edwards was talking about and it was all because of two disastrous previews that they had and this picture it was not the kind of picture that was you know it wasn't a an average sort of movie and they had two average sort of previews in p and Pasadena and they were played with a with a Dorothy LaMore movie and the audience just hated it and so it was totally recut and jumbled and botched and of course it's still a great picture but I think a great great story in connection what we're talking about about one man running a studio is with zanic had a similar thing happen when they previewed I think it was The Grapes of Wrath and it had a terrible preview and uh you know hissing and bad cards and everything and they all got back to the studio and they said Daryl what are we going to do you know it's just and he thought for a minute and he said we're going to ship the picture I think it's good and that was it you know now that's one man making a decision he could see a good picture he thought it was a good picture in the hell with it you know yeah I I think those previews so we got kind of wiped out on on Brewster McLoud because you watch the boom Shad Out Mr Alman please but um on Brer McLoud preview no we took it to Denver and uh we had a great preview we had much better preview than we did for mash and only at the end of the picture nobody walked out of the of the theater laughing because it wasn't a very funny ending I thought it fantastic and all these guys from MGM were were disappointed and it took me about six weeks later to realize that they didn't even watch the film they just they saw the people coming out they weren't laughing I was a guy that did MH it's supposed to to be funny the picture can't be any good uh ship it and they shipped it but they didn't I've never had anybody own Mr I always know where the key no nobody ever tried to take a film from me and cut it no I just would allow it I just uh you just laid that down from the beginning this is very rare I think all if you don't lay it down then I think it's up to you younger fellas right now the if Hollywood is is dying it's because you have you haven't got control of your own films yet and you have to find a way to get control of your films away from the from from those who consider film as some Leisure Leisure Time investment and then just an Orc in a conglomerate of some kind yeah and uh it's got to come back into the hands of the creative people and until it does you're going to have these mish mash you're going to have people who don't give a damn whether Hollywood makes it or not you see uh course of course I got a story about a pre a preview a bad preview if you want to hear one I mean would you tell my own we'll take a break so we have time for it and then we'll come right back good Mr kaer you were going to tell us about something happened to you with preview yes I had a very disastrous preview at the time with one of my most important films and the that picture was Lost Horizon we ran that picture in the projection room the first time we put it together and uh invited all the people from the studio all the laon and everything else we were piled three deep in that projection room and we ran it and was 3 and 1/2 hours pictures and that we thought this has got to be the world's greatest picture everybody just was completely uh uh ex you know way up on cloud n yeah so Harry Conn sent for the the his New York Executives and said come on out you s shows I've got a something great but he was just smart enough this was called he just smart enough that we probably should once try it in the theater before we before we really blew our tops about it the real audience so he said let's take it out for sneak preview so we took it to Santa Barbara he says if we can knock off those S Santa Bara Santa Barbara snobs we got it made you see so up we go up to Santa Barbara he and his wife and my wife and I and uh that's all raining and we put the picture at Major preview nobody knew what was coming up but uh the picture started and it's gone about 5 minutes and the the audience begins to last well they shouldn't there were no laughs then they began to laugh a little bit more little bit more and finally they're they're laughing at everything that's happening on the screen well I'm I'm died I get up out of the chair go on out in the lobby for a drink of water completely non plus I didn't know what I was in a State of Shock I lean down to get a drink of water and another man comes out and and this is that drinking this water he says did you ever see such a star thing with that that F man shoes thing there showing and I just I just rushed out of the theater and there was a big clock out outside this theater Big foursided Clock and just 10 minutes there there and the picture had a 3 hours and a quarter to go yet and I walked up and down and it's rain and and I I went into a drugstore to get a Coke and my hair was wild my had was wild and I get a Coke and I come back in and the man man begin to worry you know I I look like a drug fiend something you know so I was waiting for this to come out three hours walking up and down that rain and they then they started coming out and as it started coming out you can hear him talking oh what a terrible thing did you ever seen anything like that in my life they had be shot whoever made that picture this is you could hear these I ran to the car this is lost to Horizon aeriz yeah and my wife and I and Harry coner his wife when we get in the car we drive home and everything is very very dead of course and this was Harry Cohen this is what this is what he was he said this the right thing at the right time he said to me Frank I still give you that seven-year contract well nothing he could you couldn't beat that for for a little you know uh uh enthusiastic encouragement bar it's encouragement so I went off to the hills I went off to the uh Big Bear and I started walking around the hills trying to figure out what what what had happened to the our beautiful beautiful Lost Horizon that they laughed at it and I after two days up there walking around by myself I came back to the studio and said Harry let's preview the picture again tonight well no change I yes I've made one change I've put the main title on the beginning of the third reel and let's pray again that's all I it's the only thing I could think about mean there was no printing at all at the beginning just no I just put the main title at the beginning of the third reel I took the first reel two first two reels out oh I see and started the movie farther in the only chance and he said but we can't afford I said this is it if if it doesn't go this way I don't know what we we we just got a complete bomb that's all and so we took it down to Wilmington and here it goes on the screen and this and there is the picture that finally went out totally different pictures they didn't laugh didn't do anything they were completely installed was a different show entirely do you still know why how do you explain that well I of course we came back you know on cloud n now we're really on cloud n we came back and I went right back to The Cutting Room and took those two two reels right in my hot little hands and went down the incinerator and they were nit they were nitrate fil and I threw them right in the incinerator and went from Hollywood it lit up The Hollywood night sky all over the place that much nitrate would blow Columbia off the map well it really blew but I it did so there's no record to those now wouldn't you you sort of wish now you had them to see what was I can't remember what was in the you were that glad to get rid of them I wonder how you knew the why those were the things that were wrong I don't know the those these are decisions you make that's some just told you how did you know not to take out reels two and three instead of one and two I don't know what would happened if I take a picture probably been better that's a great story story about Instinct yeah so whenever you got a picture that isn't going burn the first two reels remember we just solved problem see you learned something we'll be right back after this message the show before it was out we're back you and you know can you imagine what happened when they saw that who I mean it hadn't been validated yet by the critics or by you know but hadasa saw the producers yeah I mean you know and they saw a lot of Germans a lot of Nazis jumping about they said what kind of picture is this we expected a 2,000 year old man you know nice little chicken soup something you they saw the entire German Army coming at them you know they really didn't get it I guess not well there's a great story about Buster Keaton who who was uh uh religiously previewed all his comedies you know and took a picture out I think it was called seven chances and it was a wonderful reaction to the picture and it didn't have a good ending it just sort of lay there at the end you know it was a great Chase with 7,000 women chasing him because they were all Brides a wonderful scene and they all literally 7,000 women all chasing him and uh uh it sort of petered out and that was it you know and the audience said and he felt something was wrong but what right toward the end of the scene he's running away from these women and he's running down a hill and three and as he was running three rocks just got dislodged and rolled after him was big laugh from the audience and that was it and he said we're going to shoot a new ending and he went back and he shot for about a week and he took those three rocks and he start and he built an avalanche he started with three rocks and he built it to bigger rocks and finally these huge Boulders you know the size of those cameras you know rolling down after well it's one of the great sequences ever done you know it's just hysterically funny surrealistic sequence and breathtaking and all because he got a little laugh with three little Pebbles you know why why did Katon hit the skids uh that's one that seems to be one of the sad mysteries of Hollywood since well he essentially a Panama Panama artist and uh when sound came along that they uh uh the P the Panama artist went out of B business really and also they were killed by by uh something brand new cartoons that's right cartoons could do a lot of things they were doing cartoons could do do uh and they cartoon became cheaper now now we're making films that imitate the cartoon I just did I just did a picture called what's up doc which is uh there's a Chase in it that is absolutely Buster Keaton chase you know I mean just stolen lifted is it funny though with modern cars well we don't use cars all the way through through it we used something else for a while but uh it's true tell us what are you a grocery cart grocery cart yeah sorry I asked that uh but Chuck Jones who did all the great Bugs Bunny cartoons told me that it's funny you mention that because he he directed most of the great Bugs Bunny Roadrunner cartoons and he said he was totally influenced by Buster Keaton he said everything he did in the cartoons was taken from Keon that's right and uh the they they just dropped they just dropped out of business and I and uh I came along with It Happened One Life really one thing you saw there and uh tried something uh tried to combine the leading man and the comedian in one rather than the uh comic relief comic relief see right there were always two people before the the the classic four in in drama was hero heroin uh villain comedian and Gabby hay running off with his on fire with so I combined the leading man and the com comedian in one and got a very a very and uh you know Mr Deeds and those kind of pictures that was the first time it was done it happened when I was really the first time it's strange to think that somebody had to invent that but it's really right well so the man was doing the pride Falls is what right man was getting the laughs you see the combin the comedian and the lady man was very solicitous combination you knew Max Senate and that whole group of people who saw what it was like to invent those gags and things who's the man you said you so much who could think of gags so quickly for Laurel and Hardy Leo MC Leo MCC yes oh yeah Leo MCC he was U he made the most wonderful Laurel and Hardley films that we I want to tell you something else about our particular medium because I want to tell you that that how wonderful this medium of ours is how different it is from the stage and and how it is a director's medium primarily I I have made three three uh P surprise plays into pictures uh ARS State of the Union and you can't take it with you and they were all had to do with lindsi and craps now uh I was and I I had to change them all I made some big changes in these films to in these piure in these plays to make a films out of them and that took a little guts to do because these were pill surpriz plays you don't fool around one of it's very good they must have hated that didn't they no they didn't because it turned out all right but now I want to tell you I had to I was making some changes in the State of the Union but I I was a little worried about and Lindsay and Krauss were in Hollywood at the time so I called Lindsay I asked him to have lunch and I wanted to tell him these changes and he says I don't want to hear anything about any changes I don't want to hear anything about anything I said what's the matter with you you know he's very down he says well he says life with Father played 10 years on Broadway we wore out three sets of kids everybody played it I played it everybody played it no matter who played it it was a hit and we sold it to Warner Brothers and we we were we afraid of any changes they shouldn't make any changes because we didn't know what made this play good you know we so we had in the contract that we had to supervise every scene every cut every line so they were on the set all the time they the curls were the same as the girls on the kids on the stage the shoes the button shoes everything the signs on the walls of the house everything was exactly the same because they were afraid to touch anything and he says last night we previewed this life with father now remember this has been a this is the biggest stage hit ever ever but on I tried to buy that thing many many times and he say that the audience walked out in the middle of it and we have nothing a complete flop and it's exactly the stage play now this I just couldn't believe but it happens so we have a different medium they filmed the play to be safe and they filmed the play to be absolutely safe and they bond how do you explain did you suggest taking out the first two reels or I was uh that is I I couldn't explain I don't know all all I know is we got a different medium Yeah you mentioned Leo McCary who uh who I who died a year or so ago I I interviewed him in in the hospital actually and he uh told me a wonderful I don't know if you have time he told me a wonderful story about Laurel and Hardy tell a minute and a half try Okay uh you know a lot of the Laurel and Hardy gags were based on uh thorough destruction beginning small and building to Epic Proportions you know starting with cars or whatever and he I asked him how he got the idea for that where it all started he said he was in New York it was in the 20s he was in New York with Charlie Chase and a bunch of people and they were all going to go to a party and he didn't know how to tie a bow tie so he asked Mabel Norman he says would you tie my bow tie she says no let's she says let's leave them and they left them without the tide being tied and so he sat there and he couldn't think how to tie the bow tie and he called up a friend of his in Hollywood he says do you know I got I know how to tie a bow tie and it was a photographer and the photographer says well you're in luck because my wife is doing a show in New York and she knows how to tie a bow tie now I'll call her and she'll come over and tie your tie for you so she sure enough she comes to I'm shortening it she comes over to the hotel and she ties the tie for him and he's very happy goes to the nightclub you know and sits down he sits down and they all say hi Alo and he tells the story what happened well you see I went and he tells the whole story and as he finishes Mabel Norman leans over and pulls his T so he everybody laughs Hal roach laughs and he leans over and pulls Hal roach's tie Hal roach leans over pulls Charlie Chase's tie and then the guy leans over in the next table and they do it the whole nightclub everybody started pulling ties and when they ran out of ties they started ripping the tuxedo jackets up to the back and he says after about you know 10 or 15 minutes the whole place was a shambles and that was the basis for 10 or 12 Laur hearty pictures oh that's wonderful let's start right now we have a message we'll be right back thanks gentlemen I wish we had more time Frank kapper's book is called the name above the title and you will want to read that good [Music] night

Channel: Archy L

Views: 255,270

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Id: 7yCQ_ko28IQ

Length: 59min 27sec (3567 seconds)

Published: Wed Aug 31 2016