Please be seated. Hello, Your Honor. Hello. This is a case of<i>
Baker v. Baker.</i> Thank you, Jerome.
Good day, everyone. AUDIENCE: Good day,
Your Honor. JUDGE LAKE: Ms. Baker,
you say the fate
of your marriage is riding on
today's DNA result. You are suing to prove that your
three-month-old son, Caleb, was fathered by
your husband, Mr. Baker. FELICE:
Yes, Your Honor. And Mr. Baker,
you say it is medically impossible
for you to have a child and therefore Caleb
cannot be yours. You say, if the
DNA results prove that
you are not the father, you will leave
your wife and family. Yes, Your Honor. Ms. Baker, you say
the relationship truly
is on the rocks? FELICE: (SNIFFLING)
Yes, Your Honor. Explain. At the time
I got pregnant, um... I was drinking
quite a bit. I was drinking
pretty much every day and I was blacking
out at night and I wouldn't
remember... Periods of time
I wouldn't remember... Whether you were intimate
with another man or not... FELICE:
Yes, Your Honor. It's not fair
to Mr. Baker, you know... And I love him
with all my heart. Mr. Baker, before this was there
a lack of trust
in the relationship? Well, Your Honor
to be completely honest, when... <i> Felice and I had
gotten together,</i> <i> the way that we
got together was...</i> I had done some work
in her home, and that's the way
that we met. And we didn't do
everything right. And I don't condone
the actions that we took
in our relationship. I was married.
She was married. (AUDIENCE MURMURING) And whenever, you have two people who are
in a monogamous relationship come together,
the way that we did, there's always gonna
cast doubt on the
back of your mind. How do I know she
wouldn't do this to me? We did it
to each other. And when we did that,
we hurt a lot of people. We have
12 children today but 11 children
were deeply hurt because of the actions
that we made. So, because of how
we got together, decisions that
we made, there's always been
that little nagging... I mean, "If she did it to him,
she'll do it to me. "If he did it to her,
he'll do it to me." Absolutely. But... It doesn't seem like
that's your only doubt. Well, just knowing
other situations you know, that went on,
in her marriage before
she was with me. Explain. Um, there were
spending issues that were taking place
in the marriage that he didn't
know about. And, I mean, to the
point where, you know, that had put her
in national limelight. Because she was overspending
behind his back. So, you had instances
in your previous marriage? FELICE:
Yes, I do, Your Honor. That you said were revealed
on the national stage,
the limelight? Well, I know that she had
went on a very public show. JUDGE LAKE: Which show
did you go on? <i> The Oprah Winfrey Show.</i> Okay. And I wanted you
to confirm that because I actually do remember
that episode. And I remember, your husband thought
you were in a certain amount
of money in debt? Correct,
Your Honor. But you were lying and it was,
the number was like... FELICE: Tens of
thousands of dollars. Exactly. FELICE:
Yes, Your Honor. I remember that. Mr. Baker,
knowing that, also affects your ability
to trust her? Correct. Ms. Baker, have you lied
about cheating on Mr. Baker? Have you cheated
on him? FELICE: No, I have not
cheated on Mr. Baker,
Your Honor. There's no recollection
of anything ever
happening to me, while I was drinking,
but just that... The thing in the
back of my mind
just keeps going, you know, "Did something happen to me
and I just don't remember?" So the truth is that
you don't really remember? You don't recall
because of the drinking? Correct, Your Honor. JUDGE LAKE: What could
have transpired? Correct, Your Honor. So, Mr. Baker, you say
that it's medically impossible for you to have
fathered this child? DARREN:
Yes, Your Honor. Explain. Back in 1991, <i> when my ex
was pregnant</i> <i> with our fourth child,</i> while she was pregnant,
I had a vasectomy. JUDGE LAKE: Mmm-hmm. And so based upon
the research that I have done
regarding vasectomies, once the procedure
hits the 20-year mark, they literally put it into
the realm of impossibility. So, since
it's been 23 years after a vasectomy, you've got to question
is it even possible for me to even
conceive a child? JUDGE LAKE: When you
found out you were pregnant you told
your husband... Well, what
happened is, I noticed I was getting
a little bit of a belly and it had been
three and a half months
since I had a period. Actually, I thought I was
going through menopause and I mentioned
to Mr. Baker, that I hadn't had
my menstrual cycle
in three months, and he said, "Well,
if you're pregnant
it's not from me." And so we went to the store
and got a pregnancy test and it, at that time
came out positive. And so, he didn't believe
the pregnancy test, so went over to another store
and bought two expensive tests and both of those
came out positive also. When you found this out,
Mr. Baker, what was your
first thought? DARREN: I went
on the Internet. (ALL CHUCKLING) I googled, "What can cause
a false positive?" And there's only
four conditions that a false positive
will show up on a pregnancy test, obviously,
number one is pregnancy. Number two is
ovarian cancer. Number three
is uterus cancer. Number four is
any cancerous tumors
in the uterus. I never slept that night because the only thing
that was going through my mind is the obvious. "Well, I know
she's not pregnant "because I had
a vasectomy." And so you thought
for a minute that this... DARREN: Absolutely. Was cancer? DARREN:
Yes, Your Honor. I let her sleep
through the night, I didn't sleep
a wink, went to work
the next day. She calls me up at 11:00,
crying hysterically. And I said,
"Honey, what's wrong? She says,
"I'm not pregnant." I said, "What do you mean
you're not pregnant?
How do you know?" She goes, "I'm dying
of ovarian cancer." Because she looked... DARREN: "I have
every symptom." Because she went
and researched... Looked up
the same thing? Yes, mmm-hmm. Yes, I looked up
the same thing
the following day. And, you know,
read the cancer. So, that's when I thought
maybe, I had cancer. Because you could have
the bloating belly just like you
are pregnant and I didn't
feel pregnant. I have had eight children
of my own. I know what it feels like
to be pregnant. Once I read that, we went
to the emergency room. We waited around
for five hours
in the emergency room. And Mr. Baker actually left
to go get me something to eat and when he came back,
I had already found out that I was three-and-a-half
months pregnant. JUDGE LAKE: And so
at that point, Mr. Baker, when you find out
she is pregnant is that a new set
of worry and mistrust? You could only imagine what
was going through my mind. JUDGE LAKE: Yes. I can understand
why you had doubt. (MR. BAKER SIGHS) And I can most
certainly understand why that opened up
another can of worry-worms
for you. FELICE: I couldn't
believe it myself. (SNIFFLING) I just took it
as that it was a total miracle
from God, because of the baby,
I quit drinking. So I just took it
from God that He put this baby
in my stomach. To save me
from my drinking, and also I was
taking pills. DARREN: There's another
part to this, Your Honor. Our one regret
was that we never had
a child together. We contacted
a gentleman who is the
predominant specialist
on vasectomy reversal in the entire nation,
located in San Diego. <i> And they sent us a package</i> <i> because we discussed
getting a reversal</i> so that we can
have a child and... When we thought about it,
we have 11 children,
five grandchildren... (SIGHS) "Here, forget it,"
and we threw the package away. And then six months later,
we regretted that
we threw it away... (CHUCKLING) And we
ordered a second one! And then we went through
the same process again and regrettably, we threw away
that second one. And now your wife is pregnant! You know, my attitude
is very simple. It better be
a miracle from God. (AUDIENCE AND
MS. BAKER CHUCKLING) And you... Wow!
You were... In your 40s? FELICE:
Yeah, 45. So, and you know,
because of everything and
he doubted it... (SIGHS) We, at least
took 20 ultrasounds. We went and had
20 ultrasounds, of the 3D, 4D, to see what the
baby looked like, to see if it
looked like him. JUDGE LAKE: And it
must be hard to really wrap your head around,
the fact that your husband, is 49. That already,
I mean, FELICE:
Yeah, we're... As men age,
their sperm count
dwindles as well. It's not just women! That's true. Well, at this point,
the court would like to
call an expert witness, Dr. Jameelah Gater from
R.I.S.E. Wellness and Spa. Jerome, can you please
escort Ms. Gater
into the courtroom? Hello, Dr. Gater. DR. GATER: Hello. Thank you so much
for joining us. We've been talking to
Mr. and Ms. Baker. They have a very
interesting situation, where Mr. Baker admits
that he had a vasectomy, almost, 20 plus
years ago. DR. GATER: Wow. And Ms. Baker
at 45 years old, becomes pregnant! And so, we need to
rely on you, to give us some insight
as to the possibility, <i> of a 49-year-old man,</i> <i> that has had
a vasectomy,</i> being able to
father a child. Well, a 49- to
50-year-old man, really doesn't have issues
with fertility, typically. 85% of sperm counts
at that age are going to be normal. As you age, it's really more
the quality of the sperm, and that tends to be
affected by lifestyle factors, such as
smoking and drinking. Okay. However Mr. Baker's case,
he's had a vasectomy. And if it was
a successful vasectomy, then the sperm count
should be zero, and it would be impossible
for him to father a child. But what often
happens is, is that men don't do
the proper follow-up after the vasectomy
to ensure that it was,
in fact, successful. JUDGE LAKE: And what
is that follow-up exactly? Typically, three months
and then again, a year later
for follow-up. All right so, Mr. Baker
did you do the
three-month follow-up? Yes, Your Honor. JUDGE LAKE:
And at that time
were you told, that the vasectomy,
the procedure had gone well? I was good to go,
I was cleared. JUDGE LAKE: You were? Yes. Okay, and so
he did that, and then what would be
the next step
after that, Dr. Gater? Well then, to follow-up
again at a year, to make sure that
the vasectomy did not fail. Did you follow-up
at a year? Mr. Baker? No, Your Honor. (AUDIENCE MURMURING) JUDGE LAKE: You did not? DR. GATER:
And that's typical. Only 8% of men
do their year follow-up. JUDGE LAKE: Really? Yes. Yes. JUDGE LAKE: Oh. With a procedure
that important? DARREN: Well, usually
the second follow-up
procedure was if you failed
the first one. But if you passed
the first one, and you have, you know,
zero sperm count, then, you're good to go. JUDGE LAKE: Okay. The year follow-up
is actually, like we're talking about
before, to make sure
the vasectomy doesn't fail. It's very rare
but in one in about
4,000 cases, um, the vas deferens,
which is the tube
that carries the sperm, that's what we cut,
during the procedure. Correct. DR. GATER: And very rarely,
that tube can
grow back over time. <i> So when we ask you
to follow-up at a year's time,</i> we're checking a sperm count,
to make sure that
there's still no sperm, and to make sure
that that tube did not
grow back together. And that was the follow-up,
that he missed? DR. GATER: Correct. Where they would have
checked to see if potentially it almost
would have reconnected itself? Reconnected,
exactly. So when we
look at this, it does not make it
impossible for him
to father a child. He should have about,
a 1.5% chance
of fathering a child. Very, very slim? DR. GATER: Yes. JUDGE LAKE: But possible? Possible. It only takes
one sperm. JUDGE LAKE: Ms. Baker, based upon
what you've heard, Dr. Gater explain
to us today, how are you
feeling now? (SOBBING) I just believe
that the Lord, you know,
had this happen. And so you are
hanging your head on the 1.5%
percent? Yeah. JUDGE LAKE: Because
you truly believe, this is your
husband's child. Yes, I do. JUDGE LAKE: And Mr. Baker,
your contention is, if in fact this child,
is not your biological child, you are going to
leave the relationship. DARREN: Your Honor,
how could you trust? Well, you know,
"I blanked out,
I didn't know." You know, I mean,
how could you trust? I don't mean to
sound cold, I love my son. (SNIFFLING) I love him
with all my heart. You know,
your wife's drowning,
your son's drowning, <i> and you're right there
and you have to,</i> <i> you wanna save them both,
but you can't save them both,</i> <i> it's an
impossible decision.</i> I mean, like I said
Your Honor, today, there's a lot
at stake here. Not just for me,
I mean that little boy who loves Daddy. JUDGE LAKE: Exactly. DARREN: You know,
our children,
I mean devastating... I mean, we have
a blended family
that people only dream of. Because our children
love each other,
and they're best friends, and they support
each other. I mean, you're talking about
a devastating end result. If this comes back,
anything other than
a miracle from God... You know, in my heart
of hearts believe
it is Mr. Baker's. I do not recall any other guy
doing anything to me
while I had drank. There's no
recollection. And this man
is the love of my life... (SNIFFLING) And I would be
devastated if that son
came out not his. (SNIFFLING) I would be
devastated if that son
came out not his. These results were prepared
by DNA Diagnostics and
they read as follows. In the case of<i>
Baker v. Baker,</i> when it comes to
three-month-old Caleb Baker, it has been determined
by this court, Mr. Baker... You are the father. (SOBBING) (APPLAUDING) (BOTH SOBBING) (MICROPHONE RUMBLES) I love you. I love you too. You know,
this is a courtroom where very special things
happen, right, Jerome? FELICE: Mmm. But this,
I must say... It's been... It's just been
a very tough road. And we've had to
rebuild walls that
were broken down and we helped restore lives
that were destroyed because of actions
that we made. But I wouldn't trade
the relationship with
the love of my life. And I thank God
for his blessings... JUDGE LAKE: Ms. Baker,
I have to say. It was one thing you said
in your testimonies,
you felt like, maybe this baby
was a gift from God, because as soon as you found
out you were pregnant,
you stopped drinking? Yes, yeah. JUDGE LAKE: And
you've been sober? Yes. Stay on that path. And we know
it's not an easy one. Yeah. But you can do it. And now,
you have even more reason. (CHUCKLING) Yeah, now,
we got to be careful
for baby number two! JUDGE LAKE:
Well, if I say! You know,
with that said... Court is adjourned. FELICE: Thank you.
