Please be seated. Hello, Your Honor. Hello. This is a case of <i> Holthaus
v. Shinuald and Bogardus.</i> Thank you, Jerome.
Good day, everyone. JEROME: Good day,
Your Honor. AUDIENCE: Good day. Ms. Holthaus, you are here
to prove paternity of your three-month-old
son, Zayden. HOLTHAUS: Yes, Your Honor. JUDGE LAKE:
Shockingly, you confess it's either a man you shared
a sexual relationship with, who wants nothing
to do with your child, or the defendant,
who happens to be your mother's boyfriend. (AUDIENCE GROANING) Now, Mr. Shinuald,
you are Ms. Holthaus'
mother's boyfriend. Yes, Your Honor. Though you admit
you were intimate with
your girlfriend's daughter, you say you strongly doubt
you fathered her child. Yes, Your Honor. So Ms. Holthaus' mother
is waiting outside
the courtroom. And I'm sure she'll have
a thing or two to add to this case as well. (AUDIENCE GROANING) We'll meet her in a moment. So Mr. Shinuald,
how did you end up in a sexual relationship with your
girlfriend's daughter? It started out
as a text message,
Your Honor, I received.
It wasn't supposed to
come to me, and a word was misspelled. It was about
a few days later she had on
a tight clothing... (AUDIENCE GROANING) You know, a little skirt,
her breasts out. And next thing you know,
one thing led to another, we started flirting with
each other back and forth. Things just escalated
from there. JUDGE LAKE: Wait a minute!
You... Wait a minute! Did you ever think
in your mind
this is inappropriate? So, Ms. Holthaus, this all started
with a word you misspelled
in a text. Yes, Your Honor. He told us the word
you abbreviated and I can imagine
how you abbreviated it. You sent the message. Was it meant for him
or meant for someone else? It was meant for him, but my mom was sitting
right beside me
when I texted him this. (AUDIENCE GASPING) So I was asking him
when he's gonna come over. Did you have
any thoughts, intentions about having
a sexual relationship with your
mother's boyfriend? HOLTHAUS: I had not really
thought about it until I got a phone call
from him. And he was talking
about, um, having sex
and going somewhere. (AUDIENCE GROANING) I snuck out
of my grandma's house
that night, and we went to a park. JUDGE LAKE: And,
what happened at the park? We had sexual relations. (AUDIENCE GROANING) So you got a phone call
while you were at your
grandmother's house? Yes, Your Honor. (AUDIENCE MURMURING) What did he say? What'd he... What did I mean
by that text that I sent him, um... And your response was? HOLTHAUS: I didn't mean
anything about it
at that moment. JUDGE LAKE:
And then he said... Uh... No, I'm serious.
I'm trying to figure out how this conversation
got from there to the park? What did you say to her,
Mr. Shinuald? I asked her if she wanted to
go out and have a
good time with me. (AUDIENCE GASPS) JUDGE LAKE: And, you said... Sure. (AUDIENCE GROANING) JUDGE LAKE: So, how long did
this sexual relationship last? It was about six months. JUDGE LAKE: Six months? HOLTHAUS: Yes, Your Honor. Did your mother have any idea
this was going on? She didn't have any idea until Mr. Shinuald and her got
locked up and he got at it
while he was in jail. How did she find out? She had kinda manipulated
both of us saying that
I told her about what we did. And I never said anything,
and she said that he told her about what we did,
and he never said anything. And who confessed? Actually, I confessed. JUDGE LAKE: You did? Yes, ma'am. Were you also still
sleeping with her mother
during that time? Yes. (AUDIENCE GROANS LOUDLY) Now, you know
that's just nasty. Yes, Your Honor. Ms. Holthaus, how were you
sneaking around behind
your mother's back with her boyfriend?
What were you doing? We were just... When she's not there, she left
to go somewhere, sometimes
when she's sleeping... (AUDIENCE GASPING) In her house? HOLTHAUS: Yes, Your Honor. (AUDIENCE GASPING) JUDGE LAKE: Did she
ever almost catch you? Yes. And when she... JUDGE LAKE: What happened? She, um... She caught me standing
in front of her,
my pants unzipped. (AUDIENCE GASPING) She was really furious
and upset, and we basically got into
huge arguments and fights about things that were
going on, and... And so, when you found out
you were pregnant,
Ms. Holthaus, did your mother know
anything about this? HOLTHAUS: <i> No, Your Honor.</i> (AUDIENCE MURMURING) So, tell me what happened. Well, at the moment
I did not know but, as my mom was pregnant
with my sister, that is... My sister is
Mr. Shinuald's daughter. When she was... JUDGE LAKE: Wait! How old is her daughter? She's about to turn 11 months. How old is your child? He is three months. (AUDIENCE GASPING) JUDGE LAKE: Three months? When you find out
you're pregnant, whose child
do you think it is? At the moment,
it could've been two guys. JUDGE LAKE: Which two? Um, Mr. Shinuald
and another guy. And I had to sneak out
and go tell Mr. Shinuald
that it could be his, maybe. JUDGE LAKE: You were honest? HOLTHAUS: Yes, Your Honor. JUDGE LAKE: So, Mr. Shinuald, I'm guessing at this point, hoping, she throws you out
at this point. (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING) Actually, Your Honor, no. (AUDIENCE GASPS) Oh, really? So, are you still
currently in a relationship
with Ms. Holthaus' mother? Yes. AUDIENCE: Oh! JUDGE LAKE: Jerome,
I gotta meet this woman. (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING) Please, escort... ...her into the courtroom. JEROME: I'm gonna have you
come up to the witness stand
next to the judge. And watch your step going up. JUDGE LAKE:
Have a seat, ma'am. Thank you for joining us. Ma'am, we are discussing
a very difficult situation. Mr. Shinuald has been honest
with this court. He's admitted he's been carrying on
a sexual relationship
with your daughter at the same time he was
in a sexual relationship
with you. BOGARDUS: Yes. JUDGE LAKE: Did they
deny it at first? Yes. But your intuition told you
something was going on. Right, because my daughter
was acting funny. JUDGE LAKE:
What was she acting like? Um, if I was sitting on
a couch next to Mr. Shinuald, and I would get up to go
to the bathroom, she would get up
out of the chair across
the room to sit by him. Oh no, she didn't! Now, you have a 10-month-old
child by Mr. Shinuald? Yes. And you may have a three-month-old grandchild who's also your child's
half-sibling? That's correct, Your Honor. And I can see
this is tearing you apart. How long have you two
been together? We had originally met
20 years ago. Wow, if you've known her
on and off for 20 years, then you knew Ms. Holthaus
when she was a baby? (AUDIENCE GASPS) So you watched her grow up? Yes, Your Honor.
I also helped raise her. Now, this just keeps
getting nastier. So, how will this change
if you're his grandfather
or if you're his father? Me and Ms. Bogardus, we just
have to figure something out. Are we willing to consent
to the lie detector test? On the question of
whether or not you all
are still sleeping together... As it pertains
to three-month-old
Zayden Holthaus... Mr. Shinuald,
what're you gonna do? Twenty years old. How do you end up
with your mother's boyfriend? Well... I asked her if she wanted to
go out and have a
good time with me. And I... We went to a park. We had sexual relations. As you look at Zayden, do you see yourself at all?
Does he look like you? No, Your Honor. JUDGE LAKE:
You don't think so? No, Your Honor. Does he look like the daughter
you have with Ms. Bogardus? Maybe a tad bit. JUDGE LAKE: A tad bit? SHINUALD: Yes. She still brings it up,
she still keeps... Bring... Fighting and arguing
with me over what happened. Um, I'm not allowed to actually have any for real,
physical contact with Zayden. Because if I do,
she complains that I'm being
too fatherly towards him instead of being a grandfather
towards him. She complains... So, she wants you to be
a grandfather to him,
not a father to him. SHINUALD: She doesn't want me
to be anything to him. So, how will this change
if you're his grandfather
or if you're his father? 'Cause, surely even
if you're his grandfather you can't go your whole life
without picking him up. You're right, Your Honor. How's that gonna work? Me and Ms. Bogardus, we just
have to figure something out. And so, how often do you get
to see Zayden? SHINUALD: Uh, we actually
all stay together. JUDGE LAKE:
You all stay together? SHINUALD: Yes, ma'am. (AUDIENCE GASPING) JUDGE LAKE:
You all live together? SHINUALD: Yes, Your Honor. And you two are trying
to work on and save
your relationship? Yes, Your Honor.
Well, there are rules
laid down for me and Ms. Holthaus,
her daughter. We're not allowed to be
in the same room together. We're not allowed
to talk or text each other.
We're not supposed to really even be
around each other. And if we're in
the same room together,
she turns down the TV so that she can hear
the conversations
that we're having. Hold on! You all got all
these ground rules. You're orbiting around
one another in this house,
so you have no contact. I wanna know
when's the last time
you were intimate? Long time ago. Ms. Holthaus didn't say that. You might as well
tell the truth. When was the last time
you two were intimate? You are in court,
tell the truth. The last time we were
intimate, Your Honor,
was about September. JUDGE LAKE: September? HOLTHAUS: Yes, Your Honor. SHINUALD: Yes, Your Honor. Haven't had any more contact? HOLTHAUS: No, Your Honor. SHINUALD: No. JUDGE LAKE: You know, (SIGHS)
I've been a lawyer
for a lot of years. You all's body language
is off. You're so stiff right now,
Ms. Holthaus, I could snap you in two. And Mr. Shinuald,
your body language and that twitch
your mouth does... That's what lawyers...
We're taught to read the body language
of our witnesses. That's how we can
better ask questions. And that's why I just
gave you all the opportunity
to tell the truth. (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING) Because, it's obvious from where I'm sitting,
you all aren't telling the truth
and there is more
to this story. (AUDIENCE MURMURING) See, we deal in
scientific evidence here. So, I wanna know
if both of you say you're not sleeping together
anymore, and haven't slept together
since September,
we have access. And we can take
a lie detector test. (AUDIENCE CHEERING) It sure would calm
your wife-to-be's fears if you pass that. And maybe this relationship
could move forward
like you want it to. Are we willing to consent
to the lie detector test? On the question of
whether or not you all
are still sleeping together? (AUDIENCE GASPING) No, Your Honor, I won't. JUDGE LAKE: I'm sorry? No, Your Honor, I won't. (AUDIENCE CHATTERING) How about you, ma'am? No, Your Honor. Anybody have anything to say? No, Your Honor.
I really don't have
anything to say, Your Honor. JUDGE LAKE: Anybody? No, Your Honor. JUDGE LAKE: All right,
well, that's your business. Moving on.
So, Ms. Holthaus, are you
nervous about these results? Yes, Your Honor. Are you hoping
he's the father?
Are you hoping he's not? No, Your Honor.
I really don't hope
he's the father. JUDGE LAKE:
You hope the other guy is? Honestly, no.
Because he wouldn't
turn out as a good father. He don't want anything
to do with him. So, if it's not Mr. Shinuald,
you don't think the other guy
wants anything to do with him. You're not hoping either one
is the father? Are you saying you hope
your son grows up
without a father? I don't want him to grow up
without a father. JUDGE LAKE: Well, then,
we gotta do something.
Something's got to give. Mr. Shinuald, I know
you're probably not allowed
to say, given the rules, but do you hope
you're his father? No, Your Honor,
I really don't.
I hope I'm not his father. <i> I really want things just
to go back to being normal.</i> (AUDIENCE CHATTERING) To where... I'm not sure
what normal is for you. But, Jerome,
I'm ready for the results. These results were prepared
by DNA Diagnostics
and they read as follows. In the case of<i>
Holthaus v.
Shinuald/Bogardus,</i> as it pertains
to three-month-old
Zayden Holthaus. Mr. Shinuald, it has been
determined by this court, you... Are not the father. (AUDIENCE GASPING) Thank you, Your Honor. I can hear you breathe
a sigh of relief,
Ms. Bogardus. I do think that
we all need counseling. JUDGE LAKE: Well,
I'm glad you brought that up. (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING) Ms. Holthaus,
what're you gonna do,
20 years old. I don't know,
just try my hardest just
to do what I can for him. Her mother and I
will try to help her. Can you help her
and keep your hands off
of her, though? Because I don't believe it. I don't believe it,
not one bit. If you looked up
"lie" in the dictionary,
your picture is next to it. (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING) I'm telling you right now,
and the worst part about it, is now that the baby
is not yours... See, somebody like you
think you got off the hook. So it's not gonna stop you. The court's gonna provide
resources for you,
because you need it. Ms. Holthaus, as I said,
it's important for you to just
take advantage of the help. And I hope you do, all of you,
because you need it. And most importantly,
the children do.
I wish you the best of luck. Take care of the kids.
Court is adjourned. (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
