Lance "Un" Rivera on Jay-Z Stabbing, Business Partners with Biggie, 2Pac Run-In (Full Interview)

foreign here we go today we have Lance on Rivera former business partner of Biggie doing his first serious sit-down interview welcome to Vlad TV thanks flag happy to be here well we've heard your name for many many many years and you've done little things here and there but for the first time ever we're actually going to get your whole story so I want to start in the very beginning so you're born and raised in Brooklyn yep okay then stop Brooklyn so what was Brooklyn like in the 70s and 80s it was amazing it was it was all about love and community and you know family you know it was it was it was just one big you know I mean I was kid growing up in every block was family you know we we had uh cookouts everywhere we had uh summer youth programs we had gang fights we had some are dirt bikes and you know families was Hustlers you know it was it was it was good in in the 70s and 80s growing up and you're in a a good sized family right you had brothers and sisters or just brothers yes I have uh brothers and sisters on my mother's side and on my father's side I have a five brothers and Three Sisters okay and you have older brothers yes okay and your older brothers kind of got mixed up in the streets before you did um no we I was I was bad guy I was a really you know I was a bad kid until my mother uh took me downtown Brooklyn to Family Court when I was 12 and she took me into to see a judge and said you take them because I don't want the streets to kill them and I I was committed to a boy's home up until I was 16. so from 12 years old to 16 even though you had a family yes at home yes you were putting a boy's home yes for four years yes was it bad it was the it was it was the worst of every community at that age from every projects in Brooklyn and it was pre-spofit you know that was your it was it's it sort of it was like a cycle that was a project that was uh designed to these are the stages that you go through to see if you're going to be a career criminal you know and it was psychological warfare it was kids you know but the first time I ever heard about Thorazine was you know where they had kids drugged up walking around like zombies the same things they do today um so it was it was yeah it was it was pretty bad it was murderers it was you know the worst of the worst it was Family Court it was you do a crime at that age you know the first time I was ever arrested I was nine years old for a robbery and assault you know and I was still in public school you know so it was but it was for a reason you know it was it was single mom you know wanting to help you know she she had three boys at the time you know uh my sister was just born so it was like you know it was trying to help provide that was my mentality that was the reason why I was so ambitious about money you know them being raised by you know people who was like my mom's they but they were all Hustlers and Big Time Hustlers you know okay so when you get out of 16 were you better or worse at that point I was smarter okay I became a really really smart criminal um you know I had graduated I mean I learned how to um go into the Dom Savings Bank at 13 years old with bank books right the facility the the boys home they said open up bank accounts for the the the the kids in the building and we used to steal the bank bank books and we used to go into the banks and Forge their names and withdraw that money you know I used to break in the safes that they kept the weekly allowances that they gave you know so I became a better smarter criminal because I was around educate you know the best of the best you know it was you know but it was it's interesting because all through my life like the crew that I was hanging out with 37 years they just coming home from prison you know and it was like I was just on a different path but I was involved with people who was at that age 12 13 14 years old they was killers and the worst like I said the worst through the same way Mike Tyson grew up you know Brownsville we all from the Brooklyn and Brooklyn was it was it was fun and it was it was it was you had to survive if he was in the streets you know you could have bypassed the streets if you wanted to okay so you get out of 16 years old yeah and then you become a stick up kid um yes and you started doing armed robberies yes and I think you actually described you were a terrorist on Fulton Street I was I was a terrorist I was I was we was robbing everything that moved we was breaking in everything we was it was I don't I don't know what to tell you it was you know it was We Were Young we were free we were we we it was funny because at one time I remember being prideful about having summer youth jobs but then all of a sudden you start watching the stick up kids sticking up the kids that were making their checks for the summer and they wasn't working at all and they was making so much money and it was like okay where do I want to be I want to be the guy who you know so it was one of those things everything was education but to provide you know okay and then at age 19 you actually got caught up in one of your armed robberies yes and they gave you two years yes was that the first time you went to jail no I went to jail on a robbery prior to that and got probation five years probation like right beef maybe a year before that okay so you actually violated your probation by getting arrested again yes okay and this time they gave you two years yes in adult prison yes how's that situation um was crazy because I started on actually I started in Spofford at 19. no at 8 17 but I said back then you could say that you were 15 and up and and a parent could show up with a birth certificate and Get You released into their custody so at the time I said I'm 15 but I was big right so I go to spot fit and I was there for about three days and I realized that these kids was like fighting over cookies and cigarettes I went back to the judge the next time I went to corset I'm not 15. I'm 17 years old please get me out of there and they sent me to Rikers Island and back then when I went to Rikers Island in the 80s It Was a Race walk going on so it was the blacks against the Puerto Ricans so yeah it was Gladiator it was serious business right because you went in 85 yes okay so you were there from 85 until 87 87. now while you're locked up your big brother starts to build up the block that you guys lived around yes and this is around the time the crack was hitting New York it was it was as if he was the the guy who started crack in Brooklyn okay that's the the way the story that we're gonna tell on food street is that it's it's an amazing story that you know because when I left he was working at Pioneer Supermarket or no stream in Fulton right I was the guy in the streets while it right so when I come home you know while I'm in prison Upstate you know he he I'll never needing anything he always took care of me visits packages but at some point he started sending me these pictures because I missed the I when I when I went first went to prison it was Freebase that just started it wasn't even called crack it was just people washing cocaine and smoking it right but then it I started seeing pictures of the results and he was sending me pictures with medallions the size of this logo with rope chains on this big and I'm saying I'm robbing everybody like this is what y'all doing now right so people come and do Rikers Island they got this big jewelry on all these rings and I'm saying how did it where did it and then you know so when I came home it was like he was the number two God to the biggest heroin dealer in Brooklyn right and your little brother was actually hanging out with Biggie and the little C's and and those guys that was that's that was his crew yeah okay so in 87 you come out yes you're 21 years old yes and now the block that you grew up around Grant and Putnam is now essentially a drug Hub yes and your brother's running it yes and you start to join into the whole situation yes and you start from the bottom yes I was the doorman right I started as the doorman and this big organization and I I went through I was I learned everything they taught me everything um to the time they thought I was ready and did they it was I came home some of 87 May they went on vacation New Year's and left me with the whole operation I was nervous as [ __ ] you know but what happened was you know they showed me the system say you ready you ready you ready so when I go to the stash house and I looked through what I need to do just had my brother Justice name is Jess he had broken [ __ ] stuff down and wrote little notes I I said give this to this person when he come do this he said I'm just to make sure that you was you know you I made sure that you and and that's the way I was raised they gave me an opportunity you know first time I ever sold heroin I was when I came home from the boys home my mother was messing with a guy and he used to sell heroin and it I was 16 and he gave me heroin because I backed I was like please and she was like all right just give it to him so she gave me a hundred dollars worth of a bundle so what what happened I had built a relationship with the guy who ran the biggest dope spot heroin spot on Fulton Street and he was the doormat and but he used to get high and I used to go there every day and sit with him and talk to him and then one day I showed up with this bundle of heroin and I said yo I want to be able to knock this off if my mom's in China so he said okay going to build it he said stand in the middle of the steps he said and every customer that come in sell it to him three people came in I sold the whole bundle I ran back to the crib and my mom's and her boyfriend and I said unfinished and she said boy get the hell out of my house she was like she was she didn't do no other business with me because she was afraid like how did you do pull that off but I had already started working in myself into it before I even you know a lot of people don't these young you know young people today they wanna you know become the boss without learning how to become a boss right Okay so you're back in Brooklyn you're working with your brothers yes on the drug business yes now biggie actually lives two blocks away yes and you meet him that year yes and this was that same year was there's that famous video of him battling that dude yeah right yeah were you there when that happened or no no I wasn't at that battle okay yeah I wasn't at that battle were there other battles that you were seeing I was I've absolutely I've seen the second battle between him and Prince okay that's not on video that's not on video yeah it's it's it's a lot of battles that biggie had like a lot of people don't know that Big E and Jay-Z battled in high school in Westinghouse aha you saw it all right somebody who was there you'll see I had telling you this series is going to tell all of the information Okay so you meet biggie that year but you guys aren't really getting close or anything yet no I I see what happened was is that I come home my reputation I I was Fulton Street I was a part of the what Fulton Street became to pass down to me and my the crew that I was with and Biggie in them was kids they were younger they was running to the corner getting a peek at what was going on and running back down the block so now but we coming through like I said my brother Justin was going to pick big in them up driving them around in high school you know he was my brother was the man like he was the man in the hood like he was that guy so everybody in like I said I'm my family was we put in we were since kids we put in work for the neighborhood so um you know it was just biggie was in my little brother's life and he was in my oldest brother's life and when I came home and you know they started trying to convince me to get into the music business I wasn't paying no attention to it but they used to say this kid this kid this kid and I'm like I don't care I don't care I don't care you know I wasn't I was getting money I was in the streets hard like we didn't this that's what y'all want to do because Biggie and my older brother they were trying to get the music off my older brother was always wanting to be he'd been around that Coogi rap the The Hip Hop and all of that Okay so this was 87. that we're talking about now fast forward to 1988 over in Queens rookie cop 22 year old Edward Byrne ends up getting killed and after investigation they felt that the hit was actually ordered by Pappy Mason this made national headlines Ronald Reagan who's the president at the time personally called Edward Burns family and then George H.W bush who ran for president that same year actually carried around Burns badge and would pull it out at rallies and say when I'm president I'm going to shut down all these drug dealers and I'm gonna have a war on drugs and everything else like that so that he became president so by 1989 there was a lot of pressure by the feds on all the drug dealers around the country and we were talking about this earlier a lot of guys drug dealers murderers criminals started to make their way into the music industry like what did you see in terms of that in a big picture I mean it was after after the Edward Burns situation they created TNT in New York and TNT was the the downfall of the the drug dealer in New York City because they open warrants they didn't care who you was they had corrupt cops locking up the wrong you know crackheads was making up stories it was uh it was corrupt 80 77 Precinct in the Bronx like up the precincts up in Fort Apache the Bronx it was a mess right so but it was so much money right after Bush was starting running for president he he targeted this fat cat praying and Tommy mickens right and that was the beginning of New York drug dealers making their way out of town Baltimore DC Virginia Maryland North Carolina South Carolina but what was happening is that the mentality of New York Hustlers went out there aggressively and then there was so much murder so much money first Dennis so many murders second that these new SBI Federal task force started coming down on the out of New York drug dealers they're getting a lot of time setting people up lying the uh the natives making up stories about New York drug dealers giving them all kinds of homicides that they committed and so now New York drug dealers is saying Cola we need to be able to take our money now and move into something more legitimate and at that time what was more legitimate than the music business hip-hop had embraced the streets the streets were saying okay we want reparations so now millions of dollars because it happened to me it happened to I I would watch a guy named Kira massenburg who's responsible for D'Angelo and Erykah Badu and um watch him and assume that he was a drug dealer he used to come through Fulton Street every night stop at the store jump out Rolex on I'm saying who the [ __ ] is this guy right so I'm like so next thing you know we had a Stash House my brother just the same one he left the little notes for me for right he's he next door to him I see some guys in this guy kedar his pulls up and they have a brownstone right next door and I see all these exotic cars pulling up I'm saying just those guys got to be drug dealers he's saying no that's Daddio and them the musicians I'm saying for real right so the next thing you know I am started talking to Kira then I met his cousin Jacob York and I seen Jacob one day I was on the Block and Jacob used to walk up and down the street and I said I stopped him one day and I said I need you to teach me everything you know about the music business and the first thing he did was when it got me two books the uh The Hitman and this world of business music business one this business of music right that was the second one the business of music and he made and he he he he's had uh these classes and made sure that I he'll ask me questions about these books and I had to tell him right he made me study these books so I'm saying okay that's what we're gonna do right so now I'm saying all right I still don't feel that there's money in the music business by 1991 this was before big got signed okay big was still selling crack yes and at one point he goes to North Carolina yes and he gets caught mhm were you involved in any of his operations when he was up in North Carolina or when he was doing you know when he was selling on the Block in Brooklyn um I was involved because we were the suppliers to everybody okay you were his plug exactly Okay so he goes up to North Carolina he gets caught selling crack ends up doing nine months he gets out mm-hmm and at that point he starts to take rap a little more seriously he always took raps seriously okay but you know after spending nine months in jail you have a slightly different perspective no he still didn't take raps seriously he took rap seriously not from a business perspective he he was just like me he didn't know where the money was he he knew that he seen what he saw right right he didn't he he had no uh he just he we seen Big Daddy Kane and him drive through Brooklyn looking like drug dealers and we've seen all of these rappers from that era yeah they all so big saying yes that's what I want but there's nobody coming right well then in 1992 after he gets out from doing the nine months he puts together a demo Mr C gets a hold of that demo yeah he gives it to Maddie C at the source who's doing the unsigned hype column which at the time was almost like a king maker type column whoever ended up in this in this unsigned height was guaranteed a record deal right you know I mean few fast forward you know DMX got to start from unsigned hype Eminem common mob deep laundry list of people who are still you know significant to this day so he gets an unsigned hype puffy sees the article gets a hold of the tape and then signs biggie to Uptown records and the first thing he shows up on is Mary J blige's Real Love remix which Daniel produced there's Daddio from yes produced and that was in the stat next to the Stash House in the basement that I said those guys look like drug dealers and my brother said that's Daddio in them right so biggie is signed he shows up on this remix but he really doesn't have any money at this point no is that when you step in and start to actually Finance the dreams um I was like I said my brother and them was financing his dreams before I even got involved okay God it was he was taken care of like he was he he [Music] big didn't have to do nothing that he did right he his mother was a hard-working woman right she provided for him she provided to provide for him he was going to private school he was he he was it was it was just that thing in a young person growing up in Brooklyn we all had it it was that pulled to the streets right he he he used to be a booster he's the we had some of the most famous toughest boosting females in my neighborhood one thing people you'll see that on the series these women was terrorists female terrorists and everybody from every Hood used to come down there and try to get with them because they were boosters they would dress their men the flyest the everything and they made them relevant to other neighborhoods right and big used to go boosting with them he was a booster people don't even talk about that he used to because he his mother didn't give him money where he could buy labels right she she was a a you know a church woman she simple you know whatever money she was making so she but she kept them clothes fed but he wanted to be in the streets he had ambition he wanted the girls he you know so he all of those lyrics that he write about taking the Azar logo and putting it on a bootleg you know you know bow look at your face you know it's bully being bullied foot that's what they used to do you if you couldn't afford it I literally know people who you should go and cut this alligator off and put it on another shirt that was much cheaper right right it's been like that since the beginning of time yep Okay so your brothers were already taken care of yes a biggie and you started to step in at one point I inherited everything that my brother was doing I inherited biggie because he used to tell me Biggie Biggie Biggie my brother tried he every day he was like you know let's get behind big and I'm like where the money at yeah I don't it's this I'll provide I look out but you want you guys want to be in the music you want studio time and you want backing you know what I'm saying I don't know about that right I mean Maddie Maddie C who was around biggie at the time he says he remembers that time where you would come over you just buy everyone breakfast including him you know you gave biggie money for weed you would drive them around you'd buy everyone clothes and everything else like that so you guys became close right well that next year in 93 Uptown is a fiery puffy mm-hmm so then he starts Bad Boy Records and Biggie signs to Bad Boy along with Craig Mack and then around that time biggie has a daughter as well you actually give him money to help out his daughter yeah but big is still on the Block selling crack during this time and he was signed a puppy right because there's no money yet was it around this time that you sent biggie to North Carolina at your Stash House to just kind of chill yeah well you know puff kept telling him it's gonna be fine it's gonna be fine and it's gonna be fine and he was like yo I'm pressed I've got a baby on the way like what do you want me to do like it's it's you know my mom's his true story on records like my mom's sick like it's I need something to do and I'm like okay what you're gonna do is you're gonna go on a little trip and you're gonna clear your head and you know we sent we had a stash house down in North Carolina went down there and all he was doing was just living and puff was looking for him you know because he was you know he had just closed the deal with Clive you know so he was like where's he at where's he at and big was like yo is this guy is he serious though you know so there's no money yet there's no money yet yeah right Okay so big starts working on ready to die now at the time puffy Was His official manager yes so you assigned to puffy and puffy was his manager at the same time yes Mark Pitts who was Puffy's cousin and assistant was also helping out with big um well he was the point person he was the babysitter exactly that's how he started he started because it was a conflict of interest with puff being a manager and him being signed to his production company yeah right so now you know and big knew that he he kind of you know felt that way he was you know he was big was so smart and intelligent because he he he he was making you know Mark take less money as a percentage you know so was there a situation kind of early on when big needed money and he ended up selling part of his publishing back to puffy for like I don't know 25 000 or something no that was the original publishing contract from you know from him you know whatever Advanced that puff gave him from the beginning that was you know you know because at some point um Jacob had it something like a two hundred thousand dollar publishing deal on a table for big and you know uh a big kind of like was like at that point he told us that yo puff got me and you know he got me locked in like let's do something to make me on the same level and okay well you know big but you hadn't met puffy yet no I hadn't met off yet okay and there was that moment that you were big went to this Jodeci video shoot and that's when he met puffy for the first time I didn't well you didn't even meet him but that was the first time you guys saw each other uh yes and what happened there um well when we got to Harlem it was just me and big and when we got to Harlem biggest out the car and he we're on 125th street right across the street from The Mark bear goes across the street and all of a sudden you see Big's Head Drop and he comes back across the street and he starts to tell me that yo puff said you know you can't just be bringing anybody with you um you know Devonte just had got robbed or something around that time and you know and I was like nah big don't worry about it it's all good I was like um you know just go ahead have a good time but I was upset because puff didn't even get big the benefit of the doubt like so what he got somebody with him like that's that's you know he always had somebody with him when after I was with him you know so it it just became one of those things where you know on my way home I called my older brother and said all right let me get in the music business just to get on Puffs nerves to piss him off to piss him off okay and that was officially your start yes in the music business yes well that same year as big as working on his album that was around the time that he meets Tupac she's used to talk about how Pockets have come around Brooklyn and hang out a little bit here and there used to come hang out and then they came on Fulton Street a few times hung out with us know me kicked it you know that's why we were stuck on him like yo this is a real [ __ ] you know because back in them times food Street was and just to see somebody of his statue well I thought the street like oh you're a real [ __ ] dog and POC was already more seasoned than big Digital Underground he had his album everything else like that at one point pox started hanging out with Haitian Jack but you already knew Haitian Jack from before yeah I guess you actually met him during a shootout um actually it was it's a like I said you'll kill you'll see it on this show right but it's interesting because the guy who my brother was working for when I came home I admired the god before I went to prison right but he he had nephews and these nephews was drug dealers we were stick up kids but the guy Benny Thomas he was a drug dealer and his nephews was drug dealers but there was some sort of friction between a guy who I grew up with on full street named comely and one of their cousins Benny Thomas nephews was named cat and those guys was there's a crew up in the 90s in like going towards Flatbush right and it was the cats versus the Puma boys right they were Arch enemies right and Puma Lee and their cousin cat Dave on Fulton Street so it was a tension between those guys my crew and those guys because of that conflict I admired these guys because they were drug dealers I'm saying man they got all the girls you know I want to be a part of that so I end up going to prison right um no before I go to prison um it escalates right right before I go to prison we ended up getting they end up having a drop on me one day right that's something that escalated they they have me they could get getting ready to kill me right but somehow someway you'll see that I get away right um I round up my crew from folk Street and the next thing you know on site we walking down the street that night going to get these dudes and then all of a sudden this this crazy shootout happens right for so for the next two and a half weeks it's on site every time we see each other and just so happened Haitian Jack was bored and I don't know because he we didn't I didn't know hasten Jack I just knew that it was him and a big dude okay he used to ride around with named Tim and they you know they they were friends with inch and Haitian Jack and all of them from Flatbush in the 90s and and it just escalated and every time we used to see each other every time it was on site shooting whatever it took and years later it scooter is the one who made us uh you know stop beefing and you know and it was at a party in Atlanta that that somebody threw for me okay so you and Haitian Jack became cool years later yeah okay and Tupac he meets Biggie and he's in New York I think he's filming Above the Rim and he's hanging out with Haitian Jack biggie I guess warned Tupac about Haitian Jack but Pock didn't really listen um there's a rumor that you told pot not to hang out with hasten Jack but he didn't listen well I thought when I say I don't know if you I think you're out of your league right now you know um he said he asked me about Jack you know and I haven't known Jack the scooter and I used to you out of your league you know you hang with the big boys now yeah you got out of your league and then the situation happened later that year well I guess Biggie and his crew showed up to pox hotel room they left some of their guns there and then in that same hotel room that was when the whole sexual assault thing happened so then when the police came and arrested everyone they found Biggie's guns and and everything else like that so ultimately Pock ends up getting hemmed up into this whole case along with Haitian Jack and and some other guys and so forth well we fast forward then to 1994 and Biggie's debut album drops ready to die his first single juicy when they start doing the video you're involved in the actual video yeah uh puff gave me a shot at co-directed in that video um you know so he was like my first Mentor in being a director what's interesting is that Puff was smart back then because he lost money intentionally at a gambling uh while they was shooting dice just so they wouldn't Rob him oh really yeah he was smart he was this kid he's he's worth everything he has he he's smart enough to have gotten okay and this thing will introduce the world to biggie I mean even though he had some stuff here and there he had the dolly My Baby You Know Remix and so forth this was the first solo single which blew up and big was scared to death really yeah because he was like listen the pups getting ready to screw my career and what do you mean he's gonna screw your career he's like I'm telling you he's going to screw up my career with this he wanted machine gun Funk to be his first single biggie wanted biggie yeah and puff was like no we're gonna do the more the bubble gum kind of single yeah and you know bigs bigs uh you know that's what I said big was his push for Junior Mafia was to to to to to balance out those commercial records right so during this time you and big are meeting up and coming up with idea for Junior Mafia well like I said I was Jacob had already put me through school so it was based on biggie the Junior Mafia was just three members it was Chico delvec right who really was big connect to drugs he was his plug Chico right uh little C's and Nino Brown and they were called the sixes they had three sixes like 666 wasn't Bugsy in the group awesome no this was before before that right okay well big used to date you should just hang out on Fulton Street and smoke weed all day all night and rap and big but would flirt with girls right but big was the boss he had he you know hit that the first logo is it was it was based on the cartoon Penelope Pit Stop that was the first Junior Mafia logo because that's how big used to remind me that he was this really big guy and he had all of these short henchmen so if you look at that first logo that was ever done that's how they look like the little uh henchman in the Penelope pit stop right so but uh it was only three members right but it was just the name it was his crew right there was no music he didn't know about nothing so after Jacob talked me into this is stop thinking because undis started as a a marketing company right so that's where the undies instead of ideas I replaced it with undies right un was short for understanding yes which I was a five percent growing up yeah since I was 11 you know something like that um but I went to Big after that and I said here's the plan for Junior Mafia and that included Little Kim everybody did the snakes Rayshawn and and and and and and and Anton right the snakes was uh largely interestingly and trife klepto now mind you klepto was his his name klepto comes from because he was a booster kleptomania kleptomaniac but klepto used to sell big all kinds of [ __ ] you know what I'm saying Versace klepto introduced Big to Versace and all of that right so um klepto had a Q45 green and one thing about big is if you if you had your own weed and you had a car to drive him around he was putting you on that was his promise to everybody like if you could drive him around like and and because I realized that through my research of the story he promised so many people that they should have been what un was to him right and I'm saying Ned you guys really believe that you know you guys we put in work to get to what we accomplished so well early on there were some other people that are supposed to be in Junior Mafia um yes one of which was Nas yes and this was pre-illmatic Nas this was live at the barbecue knots see and I didn't have a record deal yet yes yes see well see what happened was is that he did at the time he just got his record deal and this is when Faith Newman um had him right um Daddy-o the first time on I've seen us right um do it ain't hard to tell when I first seen anything hard to tell video I said yo big this kid is perfect for this group right now this is how the universe in the story was working is that I never met nods right at this this moment in time but as we were shopping Junior Mafia Daddio took me to Faith Newman's office and she had just signed Nas and she said Daddy will introduced me as This brilliant marketing director Visionary and she gave me Nas's second single and said can I come up with a video treatment for and the video was with him I wanted Tony Braxton who was hot at the time to be like the the girl in the video right so um the next thing you know uh Biggie and Nas do a show at somewhere in that early career big hat Party and [ __ ] Nas might have had live at the barbecue they end up um uh doing the show and non-starts liking Caesar's sister ties right sorry Todd all right but because I used to say yo why does big hang out with seeds why like trying to find a story and I'm asking everybody trying to piece it all together and I'm saying well why would they hang out with c's the way he hung out with sees like yeah he was a little brother but it seems was just a kid like he was a child like he was he was in in big embraced them and I said tahis I Said So This Is How They Met uh big and Nas they did a show NASA liking ties at that show he comes to this is nice which had just got signed he had the Lexus great Lexus so he used to come through the hood and one day big toe sees yo let's um I'll wait to tell you to start okay yeah okay well another member that was supposed to be in Junior Mafia early on was Foxy Brown Foxy Brown and I've heard rumors about this yeah different versions of it yeah okay and this was before the foxy Jay-Z song The ain't no absolutely yeah one thousand she was like 15 at the time yeah she was a kid she was a kid she was a kid ain't all kids they will Nas J big all of them kids okay well foxy was around but so is Little Kim yes but Lil Kim rapped very different back then yes what does she sound like well she she sounded like when I first heard a rap Jacob you're actually let me hear her told her to rap for me and that's when I put her in the group Junior Mafia because you know all this other story you'd have heard that's the wrong story if we're gonna tell it all in the right context but he said listen to her on and and when she raps she sound like Fredro from Onyx right but I was a marketing guy right so I'm saying man you see this adorable beautiful little girl and she had the presence of Biggie like she she had it like that right and big hated it he was like no hell no right no she sounds like a boy and I'm saying but that's you know that's the aggression like and he's like hell no right big did not start liking her vocal tone not that she couldn't rap he loved her as an artist and image but her vocal tone until he heard her rap on backstabs when he heard her sound like a girl that's when he was like now I want to [ __ ] you on a record like listening to you okay and I remember you telling me that early on big would kind of mess with uh Kim a little bit and say oh I'm going to sign foxy because yeah because he thought foxy was really dope like he was like we were all one big happy family it it went left it got that that was there was a incident with some AK-47s was pulled out and and and and it was it was walking ready to happen in the hood between the two factions of Kim and Foxy because she had some guys from the hood that was managing her and you know all of those things you know so but the real Fallout came with them and Louise when when we were trying to put that record together it just you know it was there it was everybody was you know like you heard probably heard the record with you know that Jay had wrote for foxy at that time and you know foxy had made her commitment to the record and Kim was just like it just went South from there and that's why that relationship still hasn't been mended because they were sisters at one time you know same age no you know it wasn't no biggie one thing about biggie he knew how to keep everybody together he knew what his vision was you know Nas created The Fallout between Nas and Biggie came behind him not really wanting to do you know okay Nas Wanna Be Nas right they competitive right so it's rap who's the best who's the best who's the best so nah says I can create my own Junior Mafia and he takes foxy and he goes get AC and he creates The Firm right and they start you know and that's where it's a it's a lot of subliminal bars from Biggie and Nas back and forth you'll you'll find out about who's talking about who and what records so it was a real battle going on okay so you and Biggie form on DS entertainment with Junior Mafia being the focus yes biggie is hot but he's not a superstar yet he's still kind of building up you start to shop around this project and you end up signing with Craig Kalman over at Atlantic with the big Beats label which is under Atlantic well at the time Craig Cowman was just big beat but Atlantic Distributing the record they're the parents Craig Cowman had just lost his biggest artist at the time so he had you know he he wanted I asked Craig Hellman at you know early on at these meetings what is it that you want and he said I want to be the president of Atlantic so I was like okay I want to take over do it uh make movies so he says well Atlantic owns a vision and that's the same people who put out murder was the case movie right so because the whole concept of Junior Mafia involved everybody it was one big concept that you know biggie wanted to start his own family Biggie and Junior Mafia and you we were going to get Dr Dre and the dog pound who had their own family and Scarface and Luke from Miami and it was interesting because at this time Luke and Suge and them was at War right so Luke invites us all down to Miami I was there when the Jimmy henchman beef started with Suge Knight because this was the original beef that they encountered from that thing that's because salute did a good thing he invited everybody he paid for everybody to come down to Miami and he wanted to put an end to that back and forth that was escalating things right so chug was just you know and I met shook that night and he believed in the concept of giving you know the videos and you know making little movies and all that he believed in the concept and then all of a sudden he just became his holy Terror and just started running around but a lot of things were happening that that were good versus the millions of dollars that were at stake and we as the young black drug dealers and like I said at that moment Harry Owen them was thinking about how to get out of the streets and they back should with some money right it's the story I can give you every J Prince or everybody was running from the feds you know what I'm saying so you know they was they but they wanted to keep what they earned because they earned it in a honest way Okay so you guys are doing this you guys are getting your deal at Big B in Junior Mafia it's starting to you know come together as a real project you know Tupac and Biggie still have their relationship they do running from the police together and then you guys have a session at quad studios in New York it was a little Sean session right no no Dad we had nothing to do with that little Channel session we were there doing a junior mafia's first record after we got the deal got it okay so you guys are quad Studios working on your record yes little C's is hanging out on the balcony yes and he happens to see Tupac's bandana yes and he was like oh [ __ ] Tupac what up yes just randomly come on up come smoke with us it was our first studio session and we was in the recording Players Anthem claw Kent no of course no I'm was in there you know because I was partners with big with undies and big and and the mafia so he's all in there you know we all geeked up our first session you know we happy we're hype as [ __ ] you know what I'm saying we got some Advanced money ourself now you know what I mean [ __ ] lit you know what I'm saying so me and Nino just went on the Terrace like yo let's go let's go smoke we're gonna go smoke one by herself you know it was a bunch of weed in there like yo let them smoke me and you gonna rub and go in the Terrace you know what I'm saying and me and him were just sitting in there just having one of the moments like yo can you believe it like yo dog like oh [ __ ] this [ __ ] really real like we got a deal like you know we just kids we hype you know what I mean yeah and some told me to look over because if you know of course we high up you know I'm looking over and I see like a few dudes walking down the block I see the bandana he's always wearing that bandana and [ __ ] so I'm like and we of course we've been hanging around them a few times you know what I mean so I know when I see him see I'm looking down like they're like Tupac and we knew stretch too God bless the dead uh stretch as well God bless uh RP Tupac and uh I knew both of them so I could just see I know how pop walking all that so I'm like oh [ __ ] like pop yo and I'm yelling like yo pop he looked up he looking he couldn't see us you know he looking up you're like who that I'm like yo the Seas little C's what's up me who who sees yo what's up little [ __ ] what's good I said yo what up where you going he said where y'all at I said yo I'ma come downstairs I said yo come around to the corner and I'm gonna come downstairs and get you I go back in the room I tell big I'm like you're big Park downstairs he's like you lying I'm like not dead ass you're downstairs he was like oh all right go get him no regular [ __ ] like go grab them that's when me and Nino get into the elevator and we're going downstairs but Nino crazy [ __ ] is Nino heard the shots before we got downstairs so two pocket is man going to the quad Studio Lobby and then they get ambushed three guys end up trying to rob Tupac pot pulls out a gun and ends up getting shot up five times now this is where the story gets a bit convoluted because there's different versions of the story and movies and everything else like that but you were actually there yes so let's talk about what actually happened so the shootout happens in the lobby before it happens little caes tells biggie that Tupac is downstairs and big was like okay yeah bring him bring him up so C's comes downstairs in the elevator and we've interviewed C's and so forth the elevator door opens Park is laying there on the ground bleeding the guys with the guns tell cease to get the [ __ ] back in the elevator when the door opened the first person I seen was stretched he was he was tall because stretch is like six feet and he was moving his feet from the door but I'm thinking like I see like and I see his other home but I'm like the [ __ ] these [ __ ] drunk playing and when I was about to walk out two dudes came from both sides get the [ __ ] back in the elevator oh [ __ ] got me and Nino stepped back in and they just holding the guns at us and I'm hitting I was so paranoid nervous I'm hitting door open you know I'm like the door's just thin they like this and when the door finally started closing they went back to them started just like you know grabbing them [ __ ] up and all type of [ __ ] and me and Neil just looked at each other like yo so cease gets the [ __ ] back in the elevator goes back upstairs and comes out of the elevator and you're there I'll go back upstairs Park downstairs getting robbed right now he like stop playing with me I'm like young dead ass dog and you saw my face and he saw Nino face too he's like yo nah he like tell me what happens next what happens next is ATO sees and everybody else to go down back downstairs we had guns on us because that's how we was moving back then you know we had no idea what was going on right so we tell we we hide our guns in this in the studio that we're in we have no idea that Tupac's downstairs getting around that puffy and little Shawn and Jimmy henchman and them are all on another floor we're just there first day recording Junior mafia's record backstabbers was the record right um so I send everybody downstairs and I wait with me and big Damian big ride down on the alligator when we come down on the elevator the elevated door opens up the cops are standing there they got their guns drawn they make us get out the elevator they search us they uh confirmed that we're not the people that they're looking for right and they let us walk out the building me and big never seen Tupac okay that that night at all at all okay before that actually happens yes Tupac gets into the elevator himself and goes up the elevator to a different floor with the door opens that's where little Sean is and puffy and Jimmy henchman everyone like that and from what I understand Pock ends up hiding his gun in that studio so then after you know the police come and the ambulance comes and everything else like that what I didn't know until we spoke recently is that POC actually calls big tell me about that conversation um so after the night that it happens with Pac right but let me let me take you back before because you know the story is so all over the place people's version right the the story the beginning part of this whole story right is on the night that Tupac got before he got to the studio he was on the phone and he was with stretch and he was with his homeboy Nichols right and and hit they all got shot in the studio right um so Tupac was on the phone arguing with somebody and he was it was it was really aggressive and Tupac was saying yeah well whatever you know suck my dick you know [ __ ] you when you see me you see me right and yeah I'm gonna pull up I'm on my way there now right so when he hung up the phone they asked them Yo who's you on the phone hugging with like that and he said some [ __ ] named Jimmy henchman and the [ __ ] said [ __ ] you crazy do you know who Jimmy henchman is and what Jimmy against me might do to you and he was like for real like he said so do you think I should take a gun and it was like [ __ ] you we all gonna need guns going to the studio and he said yo my sister just brought up some guns from Atlanta so I'm gonna you know we'll ride up there with the guns right so but the story is so all over the place that he knew what he was going into going to the studio if if you about the life that you're about you would have went to the studio ready to for whatever was intended for you right but the story is is that big should have warned him uh you know nah he he ain't had nothing to do with it but he could have warned me about them [ __ ] but no before you even got to the studio you had a long john I kill you you'll kill me we gonna get our guns and that's kind of what happened to pop throughout his whole entire story that I've learned that he used to say what he gonna say and stand on it right he it was like everybody who tells a story about him yo he got into it with these L.A Killers man [ __ ] them [ __ ] [ __ ] them [ __ ] and he would go overboard like there was nobody there to say spot chill out right when parka with to shook I was like if they put somebody please get back away from sure because he Gonna Keep On gasoline on this food you know what I'm saying so yeah he went there with that energy right when he seen Seas who by chance we were in the studio right he put his guard down because he don't know what floor we want he's assuming oh I'm good my [ __ ] big up dead right oh he thought big was with Jimmy with Jimmy hence yeah but you guys are actually in separate students separate Studios we were on one floor quad had like three floors yeah we don't know that there got it up there but we see these these These [ __ ] in this fatigue and [ __ ] I put [ __ ] on point where we whenever I'll move with babe I'll move with big as his number one security guy everybody else you gotta kill them my [ __ ] first but I'm the last [ __ ] you gotta kill before you can get to big okay so that's what led up to the shooting situation which led up to us these these series of events yes you know the argument with Jimmy henchman on the phone and the threats yes so now he goes there he ends up getting jammed up in the hallway from whatever story was told by everybody who was there right whoever was there told the story he ends up getting shot he goes upstairs he he has his gun that he came to the studio with he hides it in a piano and then what everybody does don't know is that popcorn big after that incident right and said big I left my gun in the studio send somebody to get it so I sent somebody two people up to the studio one of them is the only person who had access because it was taped off being investigated he was the only one could get past that yellow tape we retrieved Tupac's gun and made sure that because if Tupac hadn't got caught with that gun because think about it he did everybody's story is Tupac pulled his gun out he shot himself all right but no big his man he called this man to say yo big you know but everybody want to make it seem like Tupac said big up in the studio big said Tupac yes right Tupac exactly but what you're telling me is that after the shooting occurred big was the first person he called to help him get rid of an illegal gun essentially which he would have caught another charge for exactly got it so basically after the shooting Tupac and Biggie were still on good oh good terms got it well Tupac ends up getting locked up for the sexual assault yes he goes to prison mm-hmm this is 1995. meanwhile you guys dropped the Junior Mafia conspiracy album which is on undious slash big beat yes distributed by yeah album goes gold in a month number eight on Billboard 69 000 copies the first week which is more than ready to die the first week oh so that well by that time big was already a big name so you had that big was on every song I get it yeah I get it Vegas on every song except for I need you tonight featuring Aaliyah right so he's all over this album Player's Anthem was a huge song Get Money huge song Little Kim featured on both songs uh you direct the videos yes this kind of sets up little Kim for her own solo album so things are going great for you guys yes meanwhile Tupac is in prison for a sexual assault case while he's locked up biggie drops who shot you now from what I understand that song was recorded before the actual shooting at quad but based on the timing of it and the words in it a lot of people started to think that who shot you was about Tupac I remember being on the west coast and being around a bunch of Street guys and them like now [ __ ] [ __ ] that who shot your [ __ ] they talking about pocket like people were fired up about it and no one was really there really addressing it at the time big at that point didn't say no no it's not about Tupac or anything else like that things were just kind of writing as as is [Music] while Pock is locked up Suge Knight steps in and signs him to death row while he's still in prison and we don't quite know the story behind this because there's different versions of it but Suge and possibly the label you know Interscope and whoever else come up with the money to bail Tupac out of jail while he's basically fighting the case you know he I guess they're trying to work on a um an appeal for his case so now Tupac is out then the source Awards happens you were there yes it's happening in New York yes well Tupac wasn't dead the Tupac wasn't there you know no Tupac was still locked up because they had the cardboard cutout exactly exactly he's still locked up but everyone in hip-hop is there yeah bad boys there Wu-Tang is there who you guys are beefing with at the time and death row is there [Music] and this was when Suge Knight famously got on stage and said any artists out there that want to be an artist and stay a star you don't have to worry about the executive producer trying to be all up in the videos on the record dancing come to death row which was a direct shot of puffy [Music] everyone started booing in the audience I remember everyone caught caught what was happening you guys are actually there when you heard that on stage how did you feel I wanted to go out there and [ __ ] sugar like anybody else that's what I wanted to do you know I'm telling you I grew up because I was a terrorist right I was a bad kid like I was gold gold like for the family I would put my life on the line right when that statement was made it was so much other stuff going on like we had beef with Wu-Tang at the time right everybody was armed to the teeth right I'm talking about it was all kinds of weapons drug dealer murderers kidnappers everybody was armed to the teeth but one thing is that when he said what he said the everybody who was in that building was from the East Coast Wu-Tang everybody and you know who stops who saved their lives that night biggie biggie was the only person who saved their lives because everybody was ready to tear into these guys that night the whole building would have had a piece of them that night and big was like no no that's not going to happen and he that's the only reason there was no what puffing them follow up to it was going on stage no it was Biggie who stopped it because it was it was such a out of nowhere all of this stuff and then we realized we started to realize that this was about marketing and promotions we knew that it oh you guys are just actors you know so it just from that point on it was crazy well what was the beef between shug and puff up to that point was there something that led up to that between sugar and puff so if you if you any I tell people this all the time if you wanna find any kind of what what was over with between two men if you dig really deep you'll find the days either money involved or a woman usually a woman ninety percent of times it's the woman involved right what wasn't there uh like an alleged photo of Shug with Puffy's baby mother and the baby or something this is these are the things that I know like the West Coast will take care of what the East Coast can and you know things got personal and testy it's it's see I I come from an era of growing up where there was a thing called bullion but to us it was called the dozens right your mama's so fat [ __ ] mama's so black right and and and and if you competed you know it was it was a you know it was right to passage right so but how much can you take right so when when when hip-hop started it started from the DJ right battling against another DJ and MC was the guy who was hyping up the DJ right that's his only job was to Hype up the DJ in the crowd right so but it was a competition so now you take rapping MC and and it's all competitive right and with all all up in the videos and yes puff was all up in the videos Jermaine was all up in the videos but Suge was all up in the videos right these guys once all of the lights like Kanye in them like once you get bitten it's and it's money involved it's hundreds of millions of dollars so yes got it well you had mentioned there was literally tons of guns at the source Awards and because of that people were getting stuck up that night yeah it was a lot of people it was a as a it was a domino effect from that nightmare like Brooklyn is sad because you know it's it's it's I've seen these moments in my career in in being in the streets or whatever where it is you get this feeling of a darkness comes over the space right and you just notice something's gonna happen and that's the way we were raised like that intuition right so now it's it's it's it was as a result it was it was like I said everybody was vying for the money you know so I heard that stretch who died later on you could trace it back to that night yeah you could you know I mean it's all it's all one it's all one story it's not you know everybody's tense we're only one one degree of separation from and like I said any story that you pick up is going to bump into everything that we're talking about you know whoever talks about it they're gonna like I said I just brought up stretch and and the biggie quad incident right so he was a part of Tupac right so now it's all of these elements of who who done it right it's a whole yeah cobweb of of yeah who did what and it's it's like yo who's responsible you know so it's you know we we'll get to the bottom of who it is okay so the source Awards thing happens which kind of set a tone between bad boy and death row yeah but pack was still in jail when this happened Pockets out well first he drops California Love which ends up becoming a huge single mm-hmm and all eyes on me comes out huge album and then Tupac drops hit him up which actually samples the Junior Mafia record of get money when you guys first heard hit him up what'd you think um well you know in context of that specific story is um at the time when Tupac finally did get out of jail and he you know whatever happened with Shook and in the scope um he came home and at that moment in time big was the biggest rapper on the planet right true he was huge I'm talking about he was on fire he had sold two million albums probably at that time uh the mafia was pushing a million Kim was pushing Platinum right and then we come out you know Kim's album wasn't even out yet it wasn't out yet right it was the mafia was doing amazing so we had this hit record called get money and we had a remix uh to it and you know all of a sudden Park comes home and we're at a video shoot and somebody plays hit him up for us and we all looked at each other like what the [ __ ] just happened because like I said that record was hot it was big and all of a sudden because me personally like I said I'm ready to go to war I wanted to shoot a video the next day make a song the next day and and and and you know make one of those uh videos targeting sug and death row and big was like nah we're not gonna do anything we're not going to do what we're not gonna even respond well you said uh I think on a DJ self interview that big cry like a baby yeah when he heard that record because the record starts off listen there's been diss records in hip-hop before the bridges bridge is over was a very scathing you know scathing disc record um you know there's been a long you know busy bee called it goes on and on but hit them up starts off with Park talk about I [ __ ] your wife which really no one had ever gone that far before yeah yeah that's how it starts off and then from there on in there's all types of other you know things that were said so it was it kind of took hip-hop you know hip-hop battle into a new low I felt you know what I'm saying you're only talking about wives kids and so forth you know you fast forward 2023 now you're talking about your dead relatives and your kids and whatever but at that point that was extremely shocking right so that comes out and what do you think was really the real reason between the beef between Biggie and POC because like you said called biggie afterwards to help him get the gun so they were cool before he went into prison now he's out of prison and there's this whole beef thing what do you think was the real reason behind it the real reason was the fact that biggie was huge he was huge and he needed he it was all like I said Vlad Nas Biggie and POC those were the the top because pop like I said Park went to jail right he did whatever he did so now big eats has has state claim to the king of hip-hop right um the Target now I am the king right so now everybody else is like okay I got to get back right that's what makes 50 so relevant to what he was doing when he took pox formula and said oh I'm gonna make a hit record and disrespect you on the record right that's what rap is rap has always been artists battling for the number one spot it's it's all in the part of the game yeah who's number one sees sad and the big told everyone in the crew if you make a record I'm not [ __ ] with you in terms of a response record a puck he said don't call me don't [ __ ] with me if you respond to anything so none of us could do it and Junior Mafia was ready to respond Little Kim was ready to respond big was like nah we're not doing that because sees felt that Vehicles trying to leave the door open to actually making it right with Tupac according to cease no Mafia he's like oh we gotta do it we're about uh we're about to respond to this [ __ ] my [ __ ] and big heard it and big was like uh you know he was pissed but then he was like if anybody do a record responding to that [ __ ] don't bother calling me don't bother coming around me I will not [ __ ] with you if anything I'll do a record to this because you know dream off you got their own law they rap they he's like yo you do that [ __ ] I'm not [ __ ] with you I just think big total intentions was like yeah he was heated about it but you know his thing was I want to get up with this dude big and park didn't have no beef man like I said going back to car Studio you know the way people turn the story around you know there's that I I told you that pot had a beef with Jimmy henchman was coming to the we didn't invite Park to the studio he showed up to the studio we was on the sixth floor they were on the eighth floor it was a 10th floor to the studio we it was just chance yeah that we were all in the same building now all of a sudden pot comes home from prison and he takes a shot see the problem with it and I don't care who you are if you if if somebody takes a shot at one of these rappers today's wife they're gonna feel a certain way because it's like if somebody came and told you yo I slept with your wife you're gonna be like oh what what did you what do you mean right so now Big's looking at that he loved Faith he's like what are you talking about but what was Big's response to that if Faith have twins she probably have two parts right yeah so on uh on Jay-Z's album reasonable doubt there's a song called Brooklyn's Finest which biggie shows up on and Biggie had the line Gotta Go kuyo I mean it's getting too hot if Faye had to it she'd probably have two pucks get it two pockets so he was playing with it he was playing with it that's what that's what rap was that's what he these these guys were great as subliminals or direct indirect you know so the source Awards thing happens that set the tone hit him up happens that really made it clear in terms of the lines that were set and then at long last you guys actually run into each other at the Soul Train Awards yes you're there yes what actually happened when you guys ran into each other um when we first got to L.A right because it was beef we knew we had beef right so rat beef because we didn't I didn't take any of these rappers seriously right but I was there to make sure that nobody did anything big right so when we land we when Jacob puts together itinerary and it's we're always security first because we from the streets the way we move we this is big we gotta protect big right at all costs right uh we land in L.A with our itinerary perfumisa's at the airport he says to me on you take everybody else and y'all go to your hotel Big's gonna go with me I said no Puff Big's gonna go with me and you tell me what time big has to be at the social at the Soul Train of course and I'll have them there right he argue for us big new I'm in charge so we leave Puffs right morning of the source of uh the soul chain Awards we get there Big's backstage his shoes is too small I get in the limo just go outside randomly get in someone's limo and I go searching all in in in South Central L.A looking for a size 13 Triple E shoe for big right I by the time I get back with these shoes big is coming down in the cage right and I'm saying well what shoes do he got on and then I realized he got on security shoes and he's on the back heels of them right after the show we we're in the audience right and all of a sudden I'm looking around and I see a bunch of Bloods had us surrounded bunch of Bloods right they were seated all strategically around us I'm saying [ __ ] yo y'all y'all know how we moving we them went practice thing already how we getting up out of here so all of a sudden it shows over it's time for us to go we're outside like everybody else waiting for their limos all of a sudden I look around outside of the gate it's a bunch of Bloods right they outside the gate I'm saying [ __ ] all of a sudden we see these two Hummers pulling to the parking lot Tupac is in the window yelling out the window hanging out the window yeah West Side best side so everybody go into motion I do what I do I step in front of big right cause you gotta kill me before you get to Big right you gotta kill all my [ __ ] before you even get to me and big gotta stand in there with he pulls out the gun shows the person you shoot first you tell them that yes so now all of a sudden shook starts saying he got a strap he starts telling on gutter I'm looking at Sugar like this [ __ ] is telling you all of a sudden he's not the big Suge Knight anymore right because this is my really first encounter I'm not taking Tupac serious because I'm saying these guys are friends him and sees are arguing right he's like get out more faces seize like this he banging it back at Tupac and I'm saying and I'm just standing in front of big like this right so all of a sudden I hear somebody and I hear my brother just calling me and I turn around Jacob and them done got big everybody in the limo and I'm standing there just looking at shove like I can't believe you just did that Don Cornelius came outside and said I don't give a [ __ ] what limo y'all get in I think we got in like Barry Weiss limo and Teddy Riley's limo and we found all that [ __ ] and we we went right to the airport you know what I'm saying because that's what the plan was leave the sorcer was while we on that sorcerer I'm me on our way to the airport we had two pocket shoes on the radio talking about they just ran us out of L.A and we like no that was a part of our plan you know what I'm saying so yeah I was there and it we that's what we did we got big home safe you know every every every experience when we left in those limos we our itinerary we was getting ready to go do a t a t in Greensboro North Carolina so we had a nine o'clock flight booked we was already booked to leave up out of there so we made our way to the airport you know so we didn't get ran out of L.A you know everybody changes the story based on their experiences like I said at that moment we were all just looking at Tupac like pot what is this act you know cause it's it's funny because everybody says that you know I was around big right I was responsible for this kid financially we was business partners you know it but I I would I've never met Tupac I was gonna meet Tupac tonight in that studio because we just so happened to be there and she said yo Tupac's downstairs and I'm like okay I'm gonna meet this kid for the first time right because I've heard about him big used to talk about him yo wait till you ain't pop he a good dude you know and I'm like okay you know I knew him from juice and in Digital Underground like okay yeah okay pop you know so but it was it was the sword that day was was the beginning of me um really starting to take it serious about LA right because it was they showed me that they were in control right they could have they could have done something to us if they wanted to do it right we were we were outgunned we were our manned but we were you know like 300 like we was ready to die to get him out of there so you know but those are the things that you know in hindsight you know so that situation happened at the Soul Train Awards and then Biggie and puffy did A vibe article and there was a cover shoot with Biggie and puffy on the cover and Vibe put East versus West on that cover and that was the first time it was framed that way I remember when I interviewed tretch who was very close to Tupac he blamed Vibe for the official East versus West beef because it was never that it was just a couple people were beefing from each other that just happened to be on opposite Coast but it it now ballooned into a whole thing of artists from both sides or now beefing with each other because it's framed this way you know what killed parking big let's get some real [ __ ] right here cause I I might not have too much longer because I don't give a [ __ ] after they died I die with them I'm hearing heart [ __ ] with the truth when you got that [ __ ] Vibe magazine right when you see big and puff on the cover East verse West when I saw that [ __ ] cover I said man what the [ __ ] is going on gangsters don't read articles [ __ ] on the East Coast like yo it's on wait till the West Coast [ __ ] come out here West Coast like always on wait till I'm East Coast [ __ ] come out here so it baited up a whole [ __ ] that [ __ ] went down that had just so many cycles of all biggie followers and Riders all pop Riders [ __ ] that ain't even know neither one of them gangster ass [ __ ] it could have really turned into a [ __ ] East Coast West Coast War well I mean that's what you know at the time you know like I said it's just too many you know coincidences you know it's it's it's coincidence that you know devibe did Tupac's interview from prison it's a coincidence that they painted the first East Coast West Coast it's a coincidence that he died at the vibe party yeah you know so you because a lot of things coincidences on full Street you'll see all of these things being put together yeah you know it makes sense well biggie is working on his second album life after death and while he's doing that Tupac gets killed in Las Vegas and you know I've interviewed Keith who was in the car you know that essentially shot a Tupac's car so that story is out there biggie was actually in the studio recording the song Nasty Girl when he got the call to Tupac got killed you weren't in the studio with him at the time no but Faith Evans actually talked about that night she said that biggie called her first and she said I think it's fair to say he was probably afraid given anything that was going on at the time and all the hype that was put on the so-called beef that he didn't really have his heart against anyone she said he was really shook up over the whole situation and you guys actually had a conversation afterwards yeah it was um you know I had a you know I was sleeping and Tupac I guess he came into a dream that I was having and I heard some lyrics in that dream and it was and I told big what those lyrics were yeah I said yo listen to this I was thinking about Tupac and I said You're nobody till somebody kills you and he was like I'm using that and that was his thing like he always challenge me on that's whack that's horrible but if you gave him and he was like that with his crew Everybody like I'm using that like that's it was so one day I came to the studio and he was like he'll play he got some fun and he played that song for me and he sent chills down my body like cause it was it was so it fit so perfectly you know at the time but it it it you know it it it it it was like him um Poetic Justice you know in a sense you know where's like are imitating life when it came to him you know it's like okay where where do we go from here you know and then it yeah it was it was he was destroyed you know and and he was destroyed because he never they never mended you know prox said things that if if yeah you know we could do it for charity right that was his last posture statements when he was felt like okay I'm back at number one right right before that when there was east west coast East when he was riding on NAS J everybody uh he wrote on everybody right so yeah Mobb Deep mob deep he wrote on everybody right so so it was you know once he felt that he he started saying what his future plans were you know like I said shook in them was in the way of what this kid's real heart was you know it was he used it as a tool because he was a Artist Artist he was from a kid you know he was raised by revolutionaries in the 70s 60s and 70s so he had that in him but he was an artist you know so he he was Digital Underground and he was the best at being Digital Underground even if it was just when him wearing a dashiki right in the video he was a great actor used to be a backup dancer everything artistic yeah right so now all of a sudden nobody is taking you serious because you go from Versace on a stole my style pocket from Baltimore by way of California you don't have a Versace Gator style you emulate late in the 90s drug dealers because that's what we were big didn't even have it we had it as the the drug dealers right so no you didn't have you didn't even wear Rolexes pop you started it because you became an actor and you were four-row right you became right the same way it was easy for you to go to prison come home and wear khakis and and and and and and now you became a representative of those guys right the West Coast so yeah okay so Tupac passes away and a couple months later Little Kim's debut album hardcore comes out under undeus entertainment [Music] uh no time and crush on you and not tonight for the singles all big hits the album did well it went platinum yes so now you gotta hit we have another hit on your hands after Junior Mafia now Little Kim to home runs under uh and DS entertainment which you are partners with on biggie yes okay so we fast forward in 1997. biggie is getting ready to release his second album they do the hypnotized video I guess uh right around that time you know big was dating Charlie Baltimore mm-hmm and uh we'd interview little C's about this I guess uh big had taken some pictures with him with some girls in the hotel room he had asked C's to get rid of the photos sees forgot to get rid of the photos Charlie Baltimore finds the photos loses their [ __ ] a big huge domestic disturbance uh I guess uh big stop talking to Seas for a while over that whole situation he kept telling me to take this bag out the room two three days yo Charlie about to come in get that bag out of here stolen all right I'm not going downstairs take it you know we go out do [ __ ] bag still up there next day same old [ __ ] and one day I was downstairs and now she must have got there and I just remember drock banging on my door like yo come on I need you to come upstairs help me pack his [ __ ] I'm like pack his [ __ ] for what he's like yo we gotta get out of here dog [ __ ] we're down upstairs I'm like what he's like yo Charlie went in that bag Han big got into it she threw the [ __ ] ring over the window she was throwing juices at him I come in the room as well [ __ ] cranberry juice all type of [ __ ] on the walls damn he like yo your man had to rush out he had to get him up out of here though he out had no shoes on no nothing shirtless what the [ __ ] did I do But ultimately things are still moving ahead in a very positive direction I mean everyone's waiting for the second Biggie album and Biggie was putting together the commission at the time you're actually supposed to be part of the commission yeah I was Uncle Paulie in recognition yeah and Jay was the key member um well I mean there's other key members but I'm saying big and Jay was sort of the puffy P Diddy was huge man where you put Jay oh you can't put Jay at that moment it was Biggie right remember there's that there was levels to pop being here yeah right and then he did going to jail and then he come home and big is here right and then it was nice yeah right there was no J well Reasonable Doubt was out by this time that was there's two million albums biggie right number one Reasonable Doubt became a classic kind of later on Thousand albums versus what the two million pop was doing versus million knives was doing right okay well but the commission was supposed to come together with Big E NJ in it and I guess there was a bit of a discussion about what label is going to come out on Rockefeller Bane used to argue over who was going to get the commission out right so now biggies biggest plan was Biggie had this thing about breaking artists through music and dropping names and what his Creative Vision was moving forward right so now he had a plan of of of breaking Charlie Baltimore Jay-Z um um whatever un was going to do he was gonna commission really start it from Mo Money Mo Problems was a record that puff played for me at the 112 remix video shoot with mace biggie was helping to break mace at the time right like he was breaking every artist puffy had right we'll get to that story soon about how difficult puff was and what big was helping to break Craig Mack uh Faith total mace big was rapping on every single right so he was introducing all of these people same way he tried to introduce Jay with Brooklyn's Finest and Irv tells a story about he talked to Jay about why you rapping with big big speech right so everybody argues with Mia but and I'm just I'm not taking we're going to get to Jay in his climb but on the song What's Beef that came out later on he said the commission Uncle Paulie you right P Diddy Caesar Leo de Janeiro Charlie Baltimore Iceberg Slim icebergs was Iceberg Slim Jay-Z oh that's Jay-Z yeah oh okay so he's basically laying out the roster the roster of the group is right so he he started dropping records in the commission you asked for permission to hit him yeah he started name dropping what his vision was it was so so at that moment like I said big was huge well I remember right around that time you know I did an interview with Gene deal and he talked about how he had a conversation with big and big showed him a contract for like 62 million dollars saying that big was getting ready to leave bad boy and he had all these other huge deals on the table and so forth he said but I'm about to get this money so he showed me I said you're about to get that money he said yeah look at this it had Charlie Baltimore Cam'ron little C's Little Kim uh Junior Mafia Tracy I don't know Tracy Murray Tracy Lee Tracy Lee Tracy Lee and the commission and they I think the contract was for so many years for like 62 million it comes out to like 62 million dollars and that's actually true he had a bunch of deals on the table um well whether or not he was gonna leave bad boy or not but he still had a lot of deals on the table um he he had the opportunity to do whatever he wanted to do at that that moment in time he had proven himself you know he was we were having the discussions about what his future plan what our business plans were um moving forward based on the success that we were having um so yeah it was um we we we were we we were um battling the charts um biggie was battling himself on the charts at that time Mafia versus biggie um but it was for the benefits of what we were doing you know why I think tell people all the time big was a great A and R well then March 9th came around Biggie and his crew were in La mm-hmm they decided to go to the by party party got too crowded and we've done interviews with Gene deal and seas and everyone else around this everyone decides to leave a car pulls up and opens fire biggie ends up getting shot um they take him to the hospital and he's pronounced dead at the hospital when did you get the phone call um I had a conversation with biggie um three hours before he died the conversation was don't leave the room don't don't go Puffs trying to get me to go to this party um don't leave the room get on a plane and go to London in the morning he promised me that he wouldn't leave them up I said well what are you going to do he said I'm waiting for Heather Hunter in Janet Jacme at that time they were the biggest porn stars on the planet and I'm so envious I'm like [ __ ] and on me and we just gonna smoke out until it's time for me to leave in the morning so I say you know he like yo love you bro you know he hangs up the phone three hours after that conversation d-rock called me crying and said Big's dead and I keep over and over saying he wasn't supposed to leave the room bro you know and and if I had to do it all over and relive it all over I would probably say the only thing that I would change is I would have got on that plane March 7th and been out there because he wouldn't have died because you'll see that I stood in front of him every time under all those conditions and I fought everybody tells this story about big and how you know I heard we were in under that kind of pressure we you know it was all good I've heard all of these statements but at that moment in time it me and him every single day it was be safe don't go out just do the work because they taught me out of going because I wanted to go and up I couldn't figure out why why why we know we up against it's it's it's it's so much to happen during that time it's you know the the it's it's the world knew big shouldn't have been in L.A it's it's somebody dropped the ball yeah I mean Gene deal didn't want him to go out he actually said in our interview that he got a call from Mecca audio telling him not to go and we interviewed Mecca who confirmed this phone call these people told me it was a hit on biggie so whatever it was so now um I was cool with a CO in there so I get the phone and I made a three-way call which I wasn't allowed to because I could have lost my phone and got started over in the whole program behind that but I get on the phone and I call this girl and I tell her to call Gene because I know she was in touch with Gene and I know Gene is reputable you know big Gene and he gonna get the word out there so I told you know I just called and said yo tell them to mess up you know what I mean so that he know what time it is you know I mean no whole month to say to him to mess up you know don't go to Cali [ __ ] it's on you know they don't turn to another level you know so it was only right when I heard something like that for me to let him know as a man and I jeopardized everything you know what I mean by making that phone call you know what I mean but I had to make that phone call that was my duty you know I mean as a man when I hated the comrades you know I mean life could be in danger I remember in the interview with c's you know we were talking about how when they finally heard the news that biggie had passed away it was like who's going to tell Big's mom and drock was the one that volunteered to make that phone call so in the same way he called you he called Biggie's mom which I'm sure was a much more difficult phone call listen I had to drive her to the airport that morning and put her on the plane to go to LA to get her son what state was she in she was it was it was it was horrible man and she only had one child this is her only child the only child you know and it's it's it's unfair that she has no closure to it and you know it's it's unfair about all of the conspiracies of it all you know about how you know um he there's there's nobody to give her comfort in what happened to her son and she you know she's she needs Clarity she needs to find out what really transpired and she she did a lot she's still on the head you know and it's weird because what people don't realize is that they did a thorough investigation on big thus far that they say but no one's ever asked me anything about business you never got questioned Jacob York who's here right now in the room he never got questioned Little Kim's never give him no I questioned and but they claimed to have done a double investigation and I was Big's business partner everybody knows what I was for big right no one acts was anybody threatening y'all did y'all owe anybody money and I'm sitting here saying but they said that they were concerned about who killed big and at some point I'm like well you know all of these stories about 60 million dollars you let the the world tell the story I got 64 million dollars after being died right so wouldn't somebody the FBI so they say it was investigating what somebody say hey let's yo was anything going on and I'm saying nobody cared to ask me anything no magazine at that time Source vibe the only thing people were concerned about is me and Jay yeah okay and I mean ultimately Miss Wallace sued the LAPD it ended up getting dismissed I've talked to a lot of people you know like when it comes to yeah but it only got dismissed based on the the LAPD doing their own internal investigation and that investigation came back to say it wasn't no cops involved so now no civil suit we don't have to pay it's like [ __ ] you prove some [ __ ] right you know what I'm saying but y'all claim y'all done did movies with Forest Whitaker and Johnny Depp about the invent thermal investigation and at some point I'm saying when was we not the people who you should have started with well when it comes to Tupac murder I can confidently say who did it or who was in the vicinity of where it happened the kiefd story the first keypad interview essentially laid out the story and all the pieces fit together right between KPD story you know Edie I mean who was in the car behind him Chris Carroll the first responder everything fits together we know why Tupac died it was over the MGM incident and it was retaliation over that when it comes to Biggie's murder I am not confident in terms of who did it I interviewed mob James who was you know the head of death Rose Street security you know he was the one that brought all the Bloods into death row he thinks it was a guy named poochie who was a blood who was associated with Shug who's known as a shooter and a killer who's now dead when you hear the theory that Pucci was the shooter what is your take on right on was Pucci known as a shooter yeah yeah he was a hitter for real for real okay so doing stuff like this would not be out of character not at all now that he's dead I mean everybody can speak on it and whatever now I'm surprised they haven't came and said they know who did it but the hood talks everybody knew who was doing what especially when it comes around death row so yeah everybody knew who who did it why it was done and you know some cats are still applying the fact that that it happened because we lost Tupac so just in retaliation of that you know it is what it is that's how they felt okay so in terms of the streets talking and the rumors is poochie the name that comes up more often than not that's it okay so if you were to bet I win a lot of goddamn money you know if you were to bet poochie or Amir Muhammad or or the government I win a lot of goddamn money okay but by betting on uh yes sir man come on this is Street [ __ ] this [ __ ] was this war was going on between death row and bad boy right because if it was ultimately proven that Pucci was the one who did it then that tie Suge Knight into that conspiracy yes I remember Theo you know the radio DJ called me up one day and said oh is this one cop with LAPD we looked into it there's no no actual proof of any of this so right now in 2023 I honestly as much as I known as many people as I speak to I honestly don't know who killed Biggie do you feel like you know who who killed Biggie yeah can you say it no dude I'm gonna tell it on the series okay but you feel confident you know absolutely okay I did my mob research okay and stop blaming sure cause nowhere shook story Shooks story has always been beat them [ __ ] up [ __ ] them [ __ ] Up drag them [ __ ] beat they ass there's no in this story there's no kill him [Music] well but you know the the thinking was hey I lost my big artists y'all painting these carrots all these guys was puppets scapegoats bigger plays were involved with them when it came to this hundreds and billions of dollars in money man okay well biggie passes away and there was a huge funeral procession in Brooklyn like nothing anyone's ever seen you were there absolutely yeah I was one as Paul Bearer you're one of the pallbearers yeah man I'm sorry I'm sorry for your loss yeah that was a loss but at least you got to see Brooklyn celebrate but I've seen Brooklyn celebrate from the first record you know what I'm saying like from the first song at the radio Brooklyn was was there the tunnel yeah we big one thing we go to the tunnel they say how many with y'all all of them and big will stay by the front of the door until the whole Brooklyn got into the tunnel love it okay so biggie passes away Junior Mafia is still a group but I guess puffy said that he would take care of them so they sort of went with puff at that point hoping that puffy would kind of keep their momentum going um well I don't I don't know Verbatim what their what puffy said or did with them I just know my relationship with them and puffy and Atlantic at the time um you know it was you know it was the belief was biggies no longer here um on we believe that Puff can do a better job than you and you know and that was me having to do ladies night post biggie yeah uh right because Junior Mafia never came out with another album I mean they did decades later you know but in terms of Junior Mafia as a group essentially it was it was a wrap well see it was only a rat because because the way our contract was structured at the time is that there were separate options to uh the snakes album klepto's album Little Kim's album Little Caesar's album see big was setting sees his album up through Kim's out through plays Anthem and the mafia's album Kim was up next C's then the sixes was up after that then clap then you know um the sixes right but that didn't actually happen unfortunately but it should have happened unfortunately because that was big he's playing right you see I'm saying like those options were there right and then Little Kim she ends up going with puffy well for management for management right right so now all of a sudden it becomes a um you know okay I had a conversation with Kim and I told her what me and Big's plan was moving forward if he hadn't made it back renegotiation all his business that we talked to because I was his only business partner he was Puffs artist he I was his business partner in all of the business that he was doing I said Kim this is what big wanted for everybody he wanted the commission album he wanted a new Junior Mafia Little Kim everybody right that was his plan she said I want to go and I want my I want a chance to become my own person I I signed off on her getting queen bee records um she ended up saying I want the executive producers Caesar's album because she's originally I didn't want him nobody to mess the album up so we were going to take him out of Atlantic but Kim was like no I want to do his album I want to do the next Junior Mafia album and I want to do my album and Puff's gonna executive produce it so I signed off on the checks and all of that and I said okay Craig you don't want to do what me and Big's plan was he said no I'm gonna follow Puffs lead and we turned around went and did a deal for Cam and Charlie Baltimore which is right what big wanted right because Lil Kim drops not tonight with a left eye Missy the brat and Angie Martinez that ends up being a huge hit um you actually launched uh entertainment and that's when you sign Cameron biggie was a fan of Camron yes before uh before he passed and wanted to sign him and I guess you saw Cameron in a video shoot was that we'll always love big papa yeah and he approached you and you basically said I'm signing you because big one to sign so now you sign Cameron you signed Charlie Baltimore you also signed a Dutch and Spade or major figures I guess you tried to sign Beanie Siegel I tried to sign the whole group the whole Gilly everybody yeah you know I was I was I was in the game I tried to sign mace I tried to sign Sean where the rink Murder Inc yeah I tried to sign every bar I tried to sign cash money it was too much money Jacob was bringing me everything Ludacris Jake everybody we had a shot at everybody we was just you know they they didn't fund us the right way right because in 98 well first you guys dropped the soundtrack to the film woo under uh entertainment and then camron's first album comes out confessions of fire while the industry was saying unfinished right because because Biggie's dead yeah right so all of a sudden we a gold album on a brand new artist out of nowhere right this this this artist that Dame Dash had free and freeze record didn't know what to do with Cam'ron right he was signed to to freeze records with with uh Jay-Z Reasonable Doubt right so we had to buy cam out of his freeze contract right and and blew him up right and well on that same album confessions of Fire was a song horse and carriage yes which mace was on yes mace was supposed to show up in the music video and I guess wanted to charge camera on like 25 000 or something and Cameron got insulted and that sort of set off the Dipset mace beef that went on for um well what actually happened was is that at the time when big was helping to break mace right remember puff sign makes so can you imagine what kind of contract mace got right because big just came off that same contract right the locks all of them came off the same contracts right so mace with big rapping with mace on the 112 remix Big Mac is broke so big says un give mace a check and he's gonna write for cease right he's going to write records for C's mace comes back with a record called crush on you for Little Caesar's album this was a little C's big paying on pays mace I think we paid him fifty thousand 7500 7 500 of Records right he made six records right so I he comes back with crush on you it's three verses with little C's on it that record is is by the time it was time to finish Kim's album I say big says put the version with Little Caesar's version on Kim's album and because we're gonna help break you know C's and put a sixes uh a snake song on there to set up this that's the only records right so now the original album that we shipped Kim wasn't even on crush on you it was all C's for three verses right and big is doing the chorus and biggest doing the chorus on the original half a million albums I think we shipped on Kim and then you switch it up to the Kimber and then we did a remix oh a million albums a million hours without Kim and then we did Kim did wrapped on the record she wrote her own verses and big said come up with an idea for the video crush on you the first video big was gonna direct it he was gonna play all of the car he's gonna play different characters like and he had this dance he used to call it a bum [ __ ] and he said I'm gonna be doing the bum [ __ ] trying to lock C's up as Martin the cop from Martin right so I come up with the idea for crush on you he said that's the video yeah right so and that's how right and of course before then you know after big pass the life after death album comes out um a lot of people I'm just so you know I did some polls most people felt that life after death was a better album than ready to die would you agree um I I think that there was growth yeah you know what I'm saying like he took it to another level you know and it's that's that's what artists do yeah they get better there'll be two great albums I like them both for personal reasons you know I personally can't choose between the two but they're both they're both great yeah but you hear the growth yeah okay and then in 1999 little Siege drops his solo album under India's through Lil Kim's deal Little Kim's deal right which was all puffy and Kim yeah you were involved in in that album right and actually there was no one was signed to check yeah Jay-Z shows up on that album on one song yeah um there's no biggie versus on that on that album though by that time I guess all the because because big wasn't you know like these artists that have like thousands of songs like he focused on the songs he focused on so but that's not true I I did a um a clip for I did a special for notorious Radio on Sirius XM and through my research I found five hours of biggie verses really five hours of Music a biggie version that never got released that got released see what people don't understand is Biggie had more verses than he had he gave everybody verses right yeah you showed up on everyone's [ __ ] so he had us yes he had a lot of stuff you see what I'm saying so he put in his work you know he just didn't have his own catalog you know it popped ended up with all of those verses yeah you know after life yeah but he had literally five hours of music so then comes the Jay-Z situation so you actually knew Jay-Z before the music industry yes in what regard um I mean you know from the streets right yeah have you guys actually done any drug business together yourself um we were you know through through my upper echelon yeah oh it's a broken thing got it okay so Jay-Z is preparing for his next album Life and Times of s dot Carter volume three a month and a half before the album gets officially released it gets leaked Jay spoke about the situation his book decoded he said when volume three hit the streets more than a month before the official release date I was totally at a loss this was really too much I was slipping out on Def Jam staff accusing people of having something to do with the bootleg copies of the street I just couldn't believe how flagrant it was and how much more damaging it could be than the usual low-level bootlegging I want to know how my [ __ ] got out people kept giving me the same name as a source of bootlegging it was someone I knew someone I never would have suspected and he's talking about you hmm so the night of the incident before he actually got to Q-tips party Jay had a listening event for volume three he was there Beanie Siegel was there a meal Memphis Bleak he performed a few records on stage and uh Dame Dash got on the microphone was like [ __ ] the bootleggers so there was already kind of an air of this kind of thing so then Q-tip is having his actual party for a solo album at the KitKat Club in Times Square you were there puffy was there Lil Kim was there little caes was there Busta Rhymes was there murder rake was all over the building Supreme was actually there so this is where there's different versions of the story have been floating around so you're at the party Jay-Z comes in with his crew what happens next um I mean what happened that night yeah was um he came and would I seen everybody that you just named at the party it was regular industry I think Jacob and Jessica threw that party for Q-tip so I showed it up to support um Jay a bunch of us is in there uh I ended up getting surrounded um by a bunch of people it was I it was probably [Music] 10 knives that I knew of and um I ended up getting stabbed at the KitKat Club was Jay-Z the one that actually stabbed you um for no Jay-Z was not the guy who actually stabbed me that night but Jay-Z was there when you got stabbed um was actually in front of you when you got stabbed um it was like yeah me and Jay-Z had a conversation while you know um right before I got hit in the head with a champagne bottle um and it was a brief conversation and I was looking at him like what are you talking about and you know you [ __ ] the money up right now or what did he tell you um he just kept saying you broke my heart you broke my heart and I'm like what are you talking about like you're bucking right now bro you getting ready to [ __ ] up everything and you know and I don't I don't know where people got Jay-Z stabbed me from because if anybody knows Jay-Z Jay-Z's a nice guy right he's an artist he's he's a poet he's gifted and it's never been his history you know if if Daisy had to stab me Yahweh and the god The Black Album you know because through my whole history I'm a eye for an eye type of guy you know um unfortunately I I got stabbed that night but the the reality to it is you know Nas you know and I don't know why didn't nobody believe him or ether he said I've talked about the incident you know like he let people know like yo your man stab I mean you took the blame for it you know and unfortunately you know he he he was caught up in a power struggle you know he he it was it was all about the power to you know to get rid of Dame Dash you know and and take Jay-Z to the next level without Dame you know and it was you know Dame should stop blaming Leo and and Todd Moskowitz and stop blaming Steve Stout okay where exactly did you get stabbed um I got stabbed in the back in the back yeah where like in his shoulder one stab yeah okay so that's it it wasn't multiple Staffing because the the reports were that you were stabbed in the shoulder and the abdomen is that true um no no just the back yeah okay were you involved in bootlegging Jay-Z's album listen one thing that I tried to make clear after this this this this this secret meeting right that went on about the who's who's who's gonna make more money on a Jay-Z a lot of people look at me like I'm crazy when I say that and I say no we were selling a lot of Records hundreds of millions of dollars we was doing numbers Jay was struggling he needed at the time Def Jam this was when right before they got this hundred million dollars remember they had to put out all of these they put out all of these records these double albums they needed the the The credibility rap was about credibility you know what I'm saying this was a perfect opportunity to say okay because it it is funny how you all of a sudden after the incident like this record that after that incident just behind Jay-Z on the cover of the Daily News in a Rockaway jacket Rocawear went up 1100 percent yeah everyone bought the jacket press conference because of that you know what I'm saying so well there's different accounts of what happened mm-hmm first of which is Jay-Z's own account in the book decoded so this is what he said he said one night I went to Q-tip solo album release party and at some point in the night I ran into the guy everyone's been telling me he's behind the bootleg so I approached him when I told him what I suspected to my surprise he got real loud with me right there in the middle of the club it was strange we separated and I went over to the bar I was sitting there like no the [ __ ] this dude did not just say that I was talking to people I was really talking to myself out loud just in a State of Shock before I even realized what I was doing I headed back over to him but by this time I was blacking out with anger next thing I knew all hell had broken loose in the club that night the guy went straight to the police and I was charged with assault so he described like you guys got together and you talked and you got loud with him and then he separated and came back did you get loud with him no absolutely not I'm I've never gotten loud with Jay I've gotten loud with Dame Dame was the the guy that I used to battle with in public and yell on the screen because that's what the energy that he gave about the South Davis Jay is a nice guy like I said he's he's not a yeller especially in public yeah I mean he's a nice guy but he was also very much bothered by the situation of the bootleg yeah but the bootlegging you gotta understand the biggest Bootlegger in the hip-hop game was a guy named DJ Clue right everybody wanted to kill clue every rapper in Rockefeller signed right the biggest Bootlegger in the game at the time they want to know where it came from won't you look at the biggest Bootlegger yeah well I got another account of the night from Chris Gotti who was there and but before I say this Chris said that you you guys are cool he has no issues with you he respects you and so forth but I had a you know he talked about this a little bit in an interview but I actually called him up and got the details of what happened so this is what Chris Gotti said he said he was there the night it happened Jay-Z walked in the club with the with a hoodie on and he saw Jay tuck in his chain and he was kind of confused by that he goes like yo why are you why are you tucking your chain I mean murder ink is here we got you you know you don't have to worry about it he goes nah nah something else so the first thing he said happened was your brother ended up getting into an altercation your brother Buck he was there with you he said that bug got jumped by a bunch of Rockefeller dudes did that happen yeah yeah and he said while that was happening you were kind of close by [Music] essentially watching it happen and according to him after that altercation was happening between your brother and the Rockefeller dudes Jay walked up to you by himself said something to you and he said that from his point of view look like Jay punched you like in the chest and it looked like a punch he didn't see a knife but after he hit you you dropped [Music] and he said that he saw Jay standing there with a knife just sort of looking at himself going I can't believe I just did this Chris Gotti said he got Jay into his car took his knife hit it put Jay in his car and had him take off this is Chris Gotti's play-by-play situation of what happened he said he was standing right there when it happened and once again he said Jay's is mad but he said he has no animosity towards you at all when you hear the story what do you think um I had a story about everybody who was there has a different account of what happened what happened was between me and Jay right and and the person who stabbed me right it's not you know like I said it if it was Jay I would have responded that way you know I would have showed you what I'm about like I've been doing this for years I've been stabbed I've been to prison I've been to Wars um I felt a lot comfortable because I've been in those situations and but I had on a big shearling coat a big sweater I was you know Ready for War right but the drop is the drop if you catch a person in in a position to do whatever you do but I watched the whole move play out so I seen them so once I could once I seen that they surrounded my brother I was like okay it's getting ready to go down so I'm already conscious of I've seen the movements I've seen a thousand people come through the metal detectors and the alarms going off and I'm saying well God damn they never moved like this before you know what is the urgency why is everybody crewed up then my instincts kicks in and says okay I see what's going on right I I her Rumblings about what was going on like I said if people want to say um my first complaint was bootlegging is y'all got to change that narrative but it was just too late you know what I'm saying like me and Jay's problems and what me and Jay went through the reason why Jay puts my name in records over and first time I paid Jay's me and big page Jay-Z ten thousand dollars you know what that rhyme was he dissed me in big he said how big and untrust you in a studio with me he was rapping with Little Kim before he was anybody yeah I remember that right and he starts to talking about um uh they know how I get out so I looked it big and said you hear this [ __ ] he said don't worry about it and let me get him but he was he was that guy Nas put my name in records biggie has put my name in records um um Havoc his every prolific MC has put my name in records you want to know why because they are they they've they've seen from Jay-Z me trying to help him we we we they knew nothing about what we were doing we were doing some some amazing [ __ ] yes they was on some independent [ __ ] trying to make some [ __ ] happen but we was independent for real we ain't getting no money from Craig Coleman we got 250 000 to make that album that's it the videos and all that that was coming out of my pocket right so yes at the time Jay-Z was you know it he he he he he he whatever whatever it took for that that for at some point I'm trying to say throughout all of the problems on whether he was attempting to get rid of Biggie's I'm the last of Big East ghosts who do you think leaked Jay-Z's out I asked the person had to like I said they were deaf they were in a bootleg business all they had to do was ask the king of Bootlegger yo who who got this album you don't think they could have found out this was all about marketing this was this had nothing to do with any of it it all of it was just about selling records well you get stabbed you get treated at a St Vincent Hospital [Music] police come in and question you they ask you who stabbed you what do you tell them I tell them I don't I have no idea it was a bunch of people with knives they said was we heard it was Jay-Z uh was he there I said Eve was there uh uh Buster was there um uh Chris lighting was there at every Q-tip was there every celebrity that I could remember was there I mean do you know in 2023 specifically who stabbed you absolutely okay have you ever uh seen this person confronted him talk to him you see on the series can you get all that information okay Jay-Z shows himself in he pays a 50 000 bail gets out he's facing 15 years in prison are you cooperating in the investigation um at that point I'm I'm what I'm doing is um I'm following the lead of a person at the time it was it was the heads of Def Jam and Steve Stout who wanted to be the hero in this situation okay and I was following uh Steve Stout's Direction and well Steve's out telling you to do he was he Orchestra he walked me through how to get rid his plan was to get rid of Dame Dash he told you that that was the plan because so he wanted you to be part of this plan because it was like I told you know I was brought to a meeting and we had a conversation if everybody was trying to get me to okay what are we gonna do like I said it was a lot of money at stake it was I could have I could have done several things I could have been the executive the the bad guy who turned into an executive who played victim and and and screwed up his whole entire life and Camron later on said that uh Jay-Z stabbed you over Charlie Baltimore and Charlie Baltimore actually said that when she came to the party you were already on the ground and she said the camera says a lot of crazy [ __ ] out of his mouth um you know I can't speak for what what what information camera has camera wasn't there well Jay-Z is dealing with this you know stabbing situation he's facing 15 years he drops a song Guilty until proven innocent with R Kelly basically talking about the incident when you heard the song what'd you think I thought it was a great song you were bothered At All by it no because like I said I was the I was the guy who sat and listened to how big and don't trust you in the studio with me after I paid the kid ten thousand dollars okay and after two years Jay-Z pleads guilty to second degree assault and he walks away with three years of probation this was two years later when you heard that he's getting probation for it how did you feel um at at that point um how many albums was he probably up um maybe three million albums so I said it worked it worked did you ever file a civil lawsuit against Jay-Z or Def Jam or anybody why not um because like I said it was playing Steve stop okay now you didn't see Jay-Z for a very long time after that until Heavy D died yes what happened there um I kind of just you know kind of made my way past his security why everybody was like looking at me like walking toward behind them wondering what I was gonna do and I just you know tapped them on the show they looked at the security like how the hell you let this guy get this close to me and you know and I was like yo good to see you you know you shook his hand yeah did he say anything yeah he was like what's up it must have been pretty awkward it was awkward for the people who were at have funerals right it wasn't awkward for me and Jay me and Jay don't have no problem okay you know the only problem that I had with Jay-Z is the him and Solange issue your seal of the series well in 2000 Camron drops the second album sde and it seemed like after that you kind of backed away from music industry um you you had a quote you said uh y'all take camera on y'all take these artists and leave me to recoup the future I'm just gonna chill music was never my passion um I don't know what quote where I probably said that [ __ ] I don't know maybe right well because ultimately after that Cameron after that second album was it maybe a few years later Cam'ron ends up signing to Rockefeller why do you think the Camron ended up signing Dave Dash because they from Harlem and it was one big plot for me to help break them in big to help break them and then all of a sudden they end up getting the Masters like it was it was it was all one big screw on a biggie you know that's what I say it was like yo okay y'all put in the word got us here thank you we'll go give Def Jam and Rockefeller oh boy and you know these dudes learn marketing and promotions from us entertainment they want to rewrite history as if their career started at Rockefeller like nah it started with the work that we put in to get you where you are well and then you know little Kim dropped her second album The Notorious Kiam it's under undeus entertainment but you were involved in that album at all um I just signed off on the check yep now I'm ends up going Platinum yeah and it seemed like after that whole situation you started to kind of pivot into movies yes you teamed up with shakim and Flavor Unit and you guys made a crossover media yes name McLean right that next year 2001 was the whole shooting incident that happened between uh Lil Kim and Capone noriega's crew which was tied into the whole Foxy Brown incident and so forth were you around Little Kim when that was happening uh no so you would have already separated by that well you well we lived it's funny because we lived in the same complex we've seen it there every day okay you know they were like my I would stay Uncle like I'll regardless to whatever was happening we still had a you know he there he right there we can walk to his knock on his door right but you weren't doing any sort of day-to-day of any sort no I was just arguing with puff about how much money all that money he was [ __ ] up you know he was digging him so much in the hole yeah well I mean that whole situation ended up being a cluster [ __ ] yeah I didn't even see gotta yeah he was one of the shooters when that happened uh and and Lil Kim ended up perjuring herself because she said that she didn't know she got her she didn't know drock and you know the police came in was like okay here's you guys together here's this you know you mentioning him in these songs and the liner notes and everything else like that and she ended up going to jail for was it a year yeah you know she blamed little C's because little cease was forced to cooperate but he just had to say yes Little Kim knows these guys which was not a secret to anyone and even see gutter was saying he had no idea what a little kid was trying to lie because he had already admitted what he had done and he was already on his way to prison when you saw that situation unfold the way it did and you know see gutter you know drock you obviously know Kim people are going to prison and so forth how'd you feel um I was mad at puff what because he was in charge he was he was he he he said that he could do what I did and he could you know make it make it all flow the right way and and it was you know they went to Fat Joe how you let Kim go to Fairchild she's Kim yeah like wait what what's going on here like you know I'm telling you it's it's you know but they were blinded they were young big past you know they were it's trump it was a lot of trauma everybody was living in a fog and puff was saying I got y'all and the only person who became who they became was him and everybody else you know well in 2004 you came out with that first film that you directed The Cookout a story Queen Latifah Ja Rule was in it he was in it uh Jennifer Lewis Danny Glover Tara Fawcett Tim Meadows yeah number number eight at the box office uh I made 12 million dollars worldwide so now you actually have a solid film Project under your belt a few years later in 2007 you did the perfect holiday also starring Queen Latifah with that Morris Chestnut Charlie Murphy Gabrielle Union that opened up at number six [Music] it opened up to I Am Legend that took 75 million the first weekend and Alvin and the Chipmunks that took 45 million right so now you have two uh two films under your belt you continue to make films after that yeah I did the uh cook out too um and we did that independently um and I developed a few things after that um I directed Charlie Murphy's First comedy special [Music] um so yeah I've I've done some commercials and you know some more music videos in between that you know just um that's always been my passion you know I I came to Big he wanted the music and I wanted to you know to be a director and that's why he gave me a my first shot at doing plays after yeah you know well in 2009 uh the biggie movie comes out you watched it yeah what'd you think um I thought that um gravy did a great job yeah playing him but you know I mean the story is is you know and I don't I don't everybody has their own version everybody has their own biggie moment and can tell a story you know that story was not Biggie's voice it was someone else's voice and you know and that's why I hope I can do him some credit with the series is it to be the first time you really ever heard Big's voice well in 2012 you end up linking up with Katt Williams um well I met him on a perfect holiday he was in that movie um back in 2007. yeah so but by that by 2012 you started working with them um professionally I I became his manager um in 2012. um and I kind of took him out on an independent tour um for the cat pocket let's tour and DVD which I executive produced right and things were going well between you and Kat Williams until cat wanted to bring someone else on the team yeah um at the end of this sort of 32 City Independent tour um the special we did cat populace um you know he we did an amazing deal at E1 70 30 in his favor um you know they ship like 400 000 DVDs at twenty dollars a piece um we do this really independent successful run get the special done Live Nation comes in guarantees him 10 Dates um to restart kendu live romance and he says and I think you should uh work with Suge Knight and I was like who I really think that I'm gonna work with Suge Knight and I told him [ __ ] you and Suge Knight give me my commission and the next thing you know they went all downhill like right she'll beating up people and Cat not showing up the shows yeah well uh at one point when cat was with shook when approached uh some woman who was filming them forcibly took her camera broke it and so forth that ended up being one of his strikes during his trial which ultimately made him plead guilty and get 28 28 years along with the killing of Terry Carter you know the other [ __ ] that he was into as well so yeah the the two of them were not the greatest uh no the greatest team it was it was bad and Kat Williams actually part of Dipset at one point yeah yeah cat always wanted to be a rapper every it's you know rap is rap and this yep you know Barack Obama might have to do wanted to be a rapper at one point in 2014 didn't you reunite with Cameron and did the screenplay for uh the film percentage um well I executed produced it um Jacob sort of put that movie helped cam put that movie together I kind of co-signed it with shot Kim right Omar Gooding started it yeah co-started yeah what was like working with Camron after all those years um cam is you know I I enjoyed his creativity um you know we we we classed a lot um creatively just to you know because I had this thing with Cam and I and I I heard that he kind of traumatized Jewels with this same process is that I always challenged cam on where Cam thought he was better I used to always challenge him that you're you you haven't gotten better this is so part of me so it he he was forced to and and I wasn't taking anything away from him when Camp says that he used on used to be like big he would have did it this way biggie would have did it that way and I was saying no cam you want right cam is a gold artist right he that's his career he's always been he went platinum after Def Jam bought some records on old boy and all that when he first got to Def Jam but he's a legitimate gold artist like red man and Method Man and all of these other guys right you know those guys artists right so cam didn't want to put in the work or listen to what it took to you know puff had to tell big machine gun Funk is not going to get you to me an album right right Nas had to do Lauryn Hill If I Ruled the World to get to that level Jay had to come he Jaden really start making big records until Pharrell you know what I'm saying like everything else was still this underground rapping choruses and Nah if you want to sell millions of Records here is what we learned and this is how you do it that's why puff was so successful well in 2017 the Tupac movie comes out all eyes on me you watched it um I actually was watched it a long I was in L.A I was living in L.A Benny Boom called me and made me come to the um the screening and I sat in a room with all of these death row people and I sat there watching this movie and feeling them looking at me with certain parts of the movie and I'm looking and I'm looking and when I after the movie was over I just left I didn't even you know they wanted me to stay and do a q a and talk about it and I was like I'm looking at this and I'm saying why would y'all do this all of these stories are made up these the reason why those movies didn't do well because Eminem was here to tell his own story yeah right that's why eight mile was the way it was brilliant Straight Out of Compton Straight Out of Compton Ice Cube Trace they were here DJ yellow dear this is Brandy big didn't tell this story right park wasn't here to tell his own story right because in all eyes on me there was once again the inference that big somehow set up yeah they kept doing these dramatic shots and there was a scene where they kind of looked at each other right yeah Hollywood version and they pushed into their eyes like you set me up and I'm like that didn't happen you know it's it's for Hollywood right so I'm saying nah no no no no no because especially the person that I'm you're gonna meet in my story about Tupac Tupa is a whole nother story a whole nother stood the truth it's not we're not embellishing on any of it well Lance and Rivera we've known each other for a long time yeah we've been talking about doing this interview for a while yeah and uh we just had to wait for the right time to do it yeah and I'm glad you finally got to sit down and really tell the whole story because I feel like other people have been telling your story for you right for many many years for decades at this point on this on that there's all these various versions of it you interview other people they tell you their version of it but no one can really tell their story outside of the person who's actually telling it themselves right so I'm glad you finally got to sit down and really tell what it is because you were involved in a lot of very important important things you know um you know the way that you linked up with Biggie and what you guys accomplished together is legendary yeah and uh you know what you helped put together people are still listening to today you know when you look at the Mount Rushmore of hip-hop you'd be hard-pressed to find someone who wouldn't put biggie as one of those slots yeah but you still got to put little Kim as the female top of the mountain right because she's still the the you know her image and her her substance is what's being emulated today after all these years of course I mean I directed that video you know so it's it's still relevant well yeah I mean even when you look at uh some of the early Nicki Minaj photo shoots like she's literally emulating well yeah even the current stuff what I'm saying but even in the beginning when she's like squatting and holding the lollipop these are these are remakes of little Kim shots that are iconic and you know it's a shame that the two of them never really got along and there's still the the back and forth and it's interesting hearing the you know how you know Kim and Foxy never squash their beef and hearing how the beef originally started is also interesting [Music] you know and it's too bad because I think if a lot of those females did get together they would have made hundreds of millions of dollars oh it's just now chauvinistic business and you know and women women that's why I fight for them I fight for them their existence I I push for them to to exist uh you know just to have their own voice and be able to you know be be who they are that's what it is Lance and Rivera appreciate you coming in wish you all the best and looking forward to see what else you got coming up in the future yeah we got a lot going on that's what it is people Street food Street coming soon coming soon Fulton Street Fulton Street coming soon boo

Channel: djvlad

Views: 556,985

Keywords: VladTV, DJ Vlad, Interview, Hip-Hop, Rap, News, Gossip, Rumors, Drama

Id: iZjzavvyVns

Length: 173min 7sec (10387 seconds)

Published: Wed May 31 2023