Joe Rogan | Humans Have Been in America of 130,000 Years?? w/Graham Hancock

the Joe Rogan experience so what was the motivation behind creating this book America before it's a curious mixture of things I have been exploring the possibility of a lost civilization for more than 25 years that was the essence of my book fingerprints of the gods that was published in 1995 that there has been a huge forgotten episode in human history I continued to follow that in a series of other books and by the time I got to 2002 when I published a book called underworld that followed seven years of scuba diving on continental shelves looking for structures that were submerged by rising sea levels at the end of the last ice age I really felt I'd done it I felt I'd walked the walk I put put out to the public a massive body of information and I thought my role in this is over and I can breathe a sigh of relief because it's hot in this particular kitchen and I can go do something else and I ended up writing a book about psychedelics I ended up writing supernatural meetings with the ancient teachers of mankind about the role of psychedelics in in the origins of the of the human story but then new information started to come out that touched on the lost civilization idea and I couldn't just stand by and ignore that information that's why I published magicians of the gods in 2015 and then as I was researching that book I became aware of something I hadn't realized before that there's a mass of new information from the Americas specifically from the Americas which completely rewrites the story of human history that the Americas have been misrepresented for a very long time by archeology and archaeologists will be annoyed with me for saying that they have a way of forgetting their own arrows of saying oh well we knew that all along it wasn't it wasn't the case but the fact of the matter remains that for best part of 50 years from the 1960s through until about 2010 American archeology was locked in a dogma that they actually had a name for which was Clovis first that they invented a name for a culture they call them the Clovis culture we don't know what they called themselves they were hunter-gatherers they first appear in the archaeological record 13 400 years ago and they vanished from the archaeological record 12,000 600 years ago and for a very long time it was maintained adamantly that these were the first Americans that no human being touched the soil of the Americas until thirteen thousand four hundred years ago just animals but no human beings present at all and any archaeologists who attempted to dispute that dogma and I used the word deliberately there should be no room for dogma in science but any archaeologists who challenged that would face severe problems with his or her career they would be mocked and humiliated at conferences like an archaeologist called Jax Hank Mars from from Canada who excavated in the in the in the Yukon humiliated at conferences insulted accused of making stuff up their research funding would be withdrawn basically to challenge Clovis first was the end of your archaeological career so naturally very few archaeologists wanted to challenge Clovis first what was this gentleman in the Yukon was he's called Jacques sank Mars and interestingly the Smithsonian just in 2017 did a big kind of Maher culpa big admission about this that everybody had got things wrong that Jack sank Mars had been ruined by the Clovis first Lobby but he'd been right all along the site he excavated in the Yukon was reacts cavae turd in 2017 and every single thing he said was correct even though they had just sneered at him where was he he was excavating in the 1980s in the nineteen sixties still alive he's still alive yeah yeah better well I think he's vindicated you know and it's kind of it's kind of nice to be vindicated that there's almost a place in folklore folklore for the front for the individual who is scorned and humiliated you know by by others but who turns out to be to be right and he and he was right but my point about this is that what it meant was since it was the dogma that Clovis was first that they oldest dates were thirteen thousand four hundred years ago there seemed to be no logic to archaeologists in digging deeper you know how it is with archaeology that the the upper levels are the youngest and the deeper you go the older it gets that's why we say Upper Paleolithic for the late Ice Age and lower Paleolithic for the late Stone Age and lower for the older stone-age and the feeling was no need to dig below the clovis layer because we already know that there were no human beings then before that and then a few archaeologists I've mentioned Jack sank Mars but but another is Al gujiya from the University of South Carolina who excavated a site called topper in South Carolina now now topper is an incredibly rich Clovis site it's full of their tools their points they made these special special flint points that we used as arrowheads and Spears great Clovis site he finished excavating the Clovis level and then he did something that was supposed not to be done he decided to dig deeper and he carried on Deeping down digging down and there was a layer of about a meter and a half of barren soil and then beneath that more human artifacts and they finally date those back to more than 50 thousand years ago and then in 2017 published in nature by Tom Desmarais who's the chief paleontologist at the San Diego Natural History Museum and a bunch of other very high-level paleontologists published in nature magazine evidence for human presence in North America 130,000 years ago now this has really put the cat amongst the pigeons now if humans were oppressed North America a hundred and thirty thousand years ago and archaeologists have been telling us for fifty years that they were only present from 13,000 years ago that's ten times as long that we've had humans in North America capable of doing stuff and the archaeological dogma has prevented any search for what they were doing and will until very recently what was the evidence from a hundred thirty thousand years ago okay so what it's not the let me be clear about this because because this is this is something that is often misrepresented in in my views it is not the evidence for an advanced civilization that we find 130,000 years ago in America the evidence that we find is evidence for human presence and what they were doing was very much Stone Age stuff it's a mastodon it's a mastodon skeleton that was that was excavated it was actually found by accident during road construction near near San Diego and and an archaeologist was attached to the road construction crew and immediately stopped construction and they investigated it thoroughly and what they found was so much dynamite in the early 1990s when they found it that they decided not to publish at the time because what they found was evidence that those Mastodon bones had been cracked open by human beings using tools and that the marrow had been extracted that one tusk had been left standing upright in the ground and another had been left beside it that femur had a femur of the animal had been taken away completely from the site and there was assemblages of instruments that were used to smash and break the bones and the conclusion of the team was that only one kind of creature could have done that work using tools on a mastodon and that's human beings that's classic classic human behavior so this sets the goal posts in a totally different place suddenly we have to consider that humans have been in America for a hundred and thirty thousand years we already know that a dogmatic approach of archaeology has rather refused to look at anything older than 13,000 years ago and what it does is it generates an engine of demand that we need to be looking at those missing hundred thousand plus years we need to be looking at it hard of course the immediate reaction has not been to go looking for stuff in the other hundred thousand years most archaeologists have responded by saying this is impossible it can't be it can't be so but that's precisely what they said to Jackson kumar's who said that humans were in Bluefish caves in the Yukon twenty-five thousand years ago and it's precisely what they said to our Goodyear who said humans had been at topper fifty thousand years ago and they were both right and I believe that Thom Demery and his team you don't get a big article published in nature unless it's already pretty solidly based and pretty much peer reviews it has produced a reaction I would be wrong to say that it's universally accepted it's very much challenged what is intriguing what is the challenge the challenge fundamentally comes from we archaeologists know that there were no human beings in the Americas that far back to put it in perspective it's about sixty thousand years before the first evidence of human beings in Europe it's about sixty thousand years before the first evidence of human beings in Australia and this is just evidence of the first human beings yes we have to point out how difficult it is to find evidence extremely difficult to find you know sometimes we imagine that archaeologists at work with masses of skeletal material though they're not they're not I mean the whole this is one of the ironies the whole Clovis first Dogma you would think that they had masses of material to work with they did have the tools but in terms of skeletal remains just one just one single skeletal remain from now one of the things that Michael Shermer had sent me was this dispute that perhaps the bones had been cracked open by the excavation material yeah I see excavation machines I saw Michael's email email last night and I I appreciate that Michael wants to continue to engage with this subject and that's his job he's a professional skeptic and and it's his role to do so but what he what he misses out it's true that a new paper has been published which raises questions over the what's called the cerruti Mastodon site which is the site that Tom Demery at San Diego Natural History Museum excavated and what's interesting since I can since Michael took the trouble to write the questions can I just sure I just read you something that I responded to on this sure which is that the microphone oh yeah yeah bass basically this this this paper was in no way a refutation of the original paper in nature as a matter of fact the gentleman who wrote that paper never even looked at the archaeological remains that are in that now in the San Diego Natural History Museum what it is what he based it on is reference I'm quoting from the abstract of the paper itself reference to a freeway right-of-way map and construction plans Contemporary Road building practices and work site photographs available on the internet in other words the site was not visited they simply looked at secondary references they did not look at the archaeological material and they ignored the entire argument of Tom demmer and his colleagues who had already addressed that issue they didn't look at the bones they did not look at the bones when you when you break a fresh bone it has a characteristic kind of spiral fracture that does not happen when you break a fossilized bone and Tom Demery and his team specifically ruled out road making machinery as responsible for this breaking pattern because they actually carried out experiments on modern elephants deceased elephants and they broke their bones and the kind of fracture that you get in a fresh green bone is completely different from the kind of flexure you get in a in a fossilized bone so unfortunately this paper pays pays no attention to that it just looks at road plans and says there was road work there it must have been done by road work and it's very sloppy very weak and it's certainly not the answer we can expect ongoing debate and that is that is healthy but this is not a strong case at all so this points to the first evidence that we found and is there any effort underway to try to uncover more evidence that from a similar time well I'm going to cite Tom Tom dem rated the chief paleontologist the San Diego Natural History Museum that's what he would like to see he makes the point to me I interview him I spent a day with him at the Natural History Museum he was very generous with his time I did an extended interview and I quote from it in in America before and his wish is that archeologists instead of spending all their time trying to find ways to dismiss and get rid of his findings his wish is that they would spend a little bit of that time looking at deposits older than thirteen thousand four hundred years and even being willing to go back as far as a hundred and thirty thousand years that's that's would be a proper scientific response here is a thorough body of work put forward by a very senior group of scientists who hesitated before they published it they had the information back in the 1990s but it wasn't until refined dating techniques later than in the 21st century that they finally work sure what they had and that they published it in in nature in 2017 it's it's it's an it's an important study and and I think what's going to happen is that we're going to find much more evidence of a very ancient human presence in the America Americas and that's what Tom Demery thinks as well and as he points out if we don't look then we're never going to find if we allow Dogma to stop us looking and saying oh it's impossible that humans were in the Americas 130,000 years ago so we want bother to look what a failure of science that is and to spend all the time instead trying to get rid of the evidence doesn't fit the current paradigm but it's so fascinating that just as fortuitous discovery during a construction site could change the way people perceive things yes you've got a wonder how much of that stuff is under they have to go to find these Mastodon bones well so this is a this is a road cut that's being made so those it'd be those it'd be pretty deep down 10 15 feet down the greater is going through and flattening them it varies from place to place depending on on soil deposition the stratification the stratification of the soil but what the key the key point is that what you need to do is go deeper than thirteen thousand four hundred years ago and you need to do so with dedication and vigor and and with some kind of funding and at the moment archaeology doesn't doesn't see the point of that if the paper in nature by Tom Demery was alone if there were nothing else than that I wouldn't place so much trust in it but I've spent a lot of time during the researching of this book with archaeologists who dig dig deep dig deeper and what those archaeologists all confirm is that there have been human beings in the Americas for tens of thousands of years and it's not surprising that that can be pushed back to 130 thousand years ago because part of the argument about the peopling of the Americas has to do with a place that we now call the Bering Straits between Alaska and Siberia which during the Ice Age were at times a land bridge they were exposed because of because of lowered sea levels but migrants who crossed that land bridge from Siberia on many occasions over periods of tens of thousands of years would find themselves confronted then by the North American ice cap which oddly wasn't at the tip of Alaska but began further in so there was living space in a bit of Alaska but you couldn't get through the ice mountains these these literally ice mountains to two miles deep covering the whole of North America and preventing access to the unglaciated parts of America the thing is that what happened around 13,000 four hundred years ago there had been a period of global warming and the ice sheets began to melt and a corridor opened up between what's called the Cordillera nation and the Laurentide ice sheet the two major ice keeps in North America and it's thought that the migration came through that corridor well the thing is that exactly the same thing happened between a hundred and forty thousand years ago and 120 thousand years ago there was an episode of global warming an ice-free corridor opened up and the same opportunity to enter the Americas was there at that period than it was at the later period and Tom Demarest point and mine is that we have to pay much more attention to that here early appeared and that's really why I've gone ahead and and written this book is to try to put before a broad general audience hopefully in language that makes sense and an assembly of all the latest information that casts doubt on the story we've been told because my goodness if archaeology is wrong about the story of the peopling of the Americas if it's radically wrong as it now appears to be then our whole understanding of human history has to change it's not just the history of the Americas it's the history of the entire world it has been an absolute article of faith amongst archeologists that civilization began in the old world and indeed I have a I have a book in my library called history begins at Sumer and it's by Samuel Noah Kramer a very renowned archaeologist and it's a good book actually but the argument is that this is where civilization began in the culture that we call the Sumerians in Mesopotamia between the Tigris and the Euphrates rivers and that it began about 6,000 years ago and that civilization is entirely an invention of the old world and has nothing to do with the new world at all because the new world was populated so late this is this has been the this has been the argument and this is the argument that now radically and suddenly begins to change that the Americas this enormous landmass resource rich bountiful in in every way south of Minnesota south of the ice cap vast land areas that are very bad for getting the South Amer Central America South America the Amazon just huge areas of land that were very very offered great potential for human occupation Dogma has said there were no humans there now the first bits of evidence are coming out that says there were humans there and if that's the case then we must consider the possibility that the story of civilization might have begun in the Americas not in the old world at all it might be a new world invention not an old what invention [Applause]

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Id: Qgs9zJdJctw

Length: 18min 13sec (1093 seconds)

Published: Tue Apr 23 2019