Joe Rogan Experience #1347 - Neil deGrasse Tyson

hello Joe what's going on man yeah good to see ya thanks thanks I feel a little overdressed sorry about looks good you know ah look at that a little bit of starry night there yeah you're really into them huh oh yeah I got I got is that yes oh you remembered yeah yes yeah yeah it's on the phone starry night I like about starry night it's not what van Gogh saw that night it's what he felt how do you know what he felt because this is not a representation of reality and anything that deviates from reality is reality that has filtered through your senses and I think art at its highest is exactly that if this was an exact depiction of reality it would be a photograph and I don't need the artist hmm okay so even photographs that take you to a slightly other kind of dimension as you gaze upon them it's more than what was actually going on at the time and that's that's art taken to the craft of photography and that's why you like it that's one of the reasons why plus I think it was the very first painting where its title is the background think about that this could have been called you know in the full painting obviously this is a snippet yeah yeah so there's a town there there's a cypress tree there's a church steeple it could have been called the cypress tree it could have been called sleepy village it could have been called rolling hills but no it's called starry night and everything in front of it everything in front of it is just in the way and how often do you paint something where the title is the background that that's my point and in this particular case the background is the universe and soap so for me this was a pivot point in art and it's 1889 which is recent given the history of paintings and you know there go all the way back so yeah there it is that your favorite painting ever I have to say yeah yeah a vest and a fire if it's not what are you doing for for five ties that have this painting on them in different ways yeah so I'm all-in I'm all-in what's interesting is that the town is what have you seen starry night in bacon somebody did look dig it up on the screen today somebody did it in bacon it's just crazy weird yes yeah how weird go back to the original one please what's interesting about the original one is that the town is realistically depicted the trees are recognizable as trees if you ever saw a sky that looked like that the end would be here yeah exactly Plus then swirling is not wind and it's not clouds because if it was if it was clouds you wouldn't see the Stars right what started it's how he felt that's all I can tell you by the way that is a real evening so that's sorry it's not even it's early morning the crescent moon when it's that orientation means this is before sunrise and that white object lower on the horizon that sort of glowy that's very likely Venus and that enables us to trace what's over what set of weeks this painting was actually painted so it's kind of like forensic astronomy has anyone done an analysis of like where he must have been yeah yeah that's well-known yeah he was in a real place and so that he didn't pull this out of his ass right I mean it was he painted what he saw folded into what he felt yeah that's how art should be I think yeah otherwise would what do you need artists for make cool [ __ ] the cool stuff is something that they felt and it came out of them yeah and they feel stuff they artists feel feel the natural world in ways different from the rest of us and that's why they're artists do they or do they just express it with oh sorry yes they not only yes we all can feel it but to be able to express it that that's a whole other talent right just you know what I think about often why do you why do we all know who Paul Revere is all right we all we it's a household name yet is there any other war ever fought in the history of the world where whole name is the name of the person who told other people the enemy was coming we can mention his name but we can't list the generals that all fought in that war why it's because a poem was written about him and he had this mundane job let me tell people the enemy is coming and so the artist in this case the poet elevated the mundane to something that forces you to to reckon it with your understanding of this world what joyce joyce kilmer is most famous poem it's about a tree dogs piss on trees you drive by trees you don't even know they're there yet a poem about a tree I'll never see something as lovely as a tree oh my gosh this so the art forces you to pause and just reflect on things that you took for granted things that became ordinary in your life and they were elevated to - - they get beatified by the talents of artists that's a word o beatify you never know we a defy yeah I'm using it loosely it's the intermediate step between being an ordinary person and being a saint the beatification of someone in the Catholic Church I want thought it's making something more beautiful oh babe okay I don't it could have similar roots being sad would be yeah good it could come from that but to be it be beatified is the first steps on route to sainthood yeah that's if I remember the word correctly goes oh you gotta hold up the definition to make supremely happy Christianity declare to have attained blessedness of heaven and authorized the title blessed and limited public religious honor she was beatified six years after her yes so I think you can't become a saint unless you previously been beatified I think that's the rule but I'm looking at the number one definition there to make supremely happy so that's that's interesting yeah that that yeah that moved ahead of a definition of beatify yeah so it's a to be out of fight where the the verb was up there you had on the screen Roman Catholic Church he beatified one diego an indian believed to have a vision of a Virgin Mary synonyms canonized sanctify how a consecrate so I think if you take something ordinary and you subject it to the interpretation of an artist it can be beatified and elevated on a level where it becomes a household recognition of its importance in this world hmm so my brother's an artist my brother's an artist so I'm kind of a fine art but also paints and he teaches history of art so I I've had this sort of baptism my whole life being exposed to him I'm the you know the the sibling scientist but the they have an artist in the family I this everyone should have an artist in family I've got an uncle and of course the the whole steam movement science technology engineering and math the artist got in they say wait I'm sort of stem the stem movement they want to throw in the a to get art as part of that movement science technology engineering art and math changing from stem to steam its esteem so you get full steam ahead steam is a better word in that well they both good words for what they need but that just sounds like a bunch of awesome stuff like it does and yeah I'm not throwing comedy and it's like the lbgtq a really squirrely when you start adding more letters yeah you can add letters but if it doesn't spell anything then the memorization has to kick in but steam you don't have to memorize that it's already there for you so it's cleverly conceived I think it the abbreviation was its tacit recognition that these are elements in society that advanced civilization and grow the economy actually so in fact there's hardly any growth economy in the world that isn't growing because it has been frettin not having been touched by science or technology everything just think about it so if you're around running you don't have them on your show but if you run around saying I don't like science science is bad science is evil okay well then you will die in poverty if you elect officials who believe that as well who the [ __ ] thinks that science is bad in 2019 and how do they express this they express it through sign okay so you know I'm saying like are they saying it online I have a book coming out in a month called letters from an astrophysicist okay yeah it's it's not it's not out yet I've got it it's not how did you get a copy but I don't even have my copy yet okay what I'm saying in there I there's a whole chapter on just angry people who don't like anything including science and one of them it's a it's a it's a riff he just said I hate it and it signs it and that science does bring some of the worst things that's ever happened to humanity and pollution and this he goes on and on and on and on and on and so I reply his letters from a national physicist and I and I reply as calmly and as rationally as as possible when you get attacked that way but what I'm saying is not everyone embraces everything that science does and some will cherry-pick it you have the science deniers for a global warming of science deniers with vaccines you have science and IRAs with GMOs you know there's there's all manner of science denying going on in modern society and you know we in a free society what are you gonna do right that people can think what they want but if if thinking what they want influences policy which then affects everybody then your science denial has consequences to the economic health of the nation and by the way it's not only economics it's your the economic health it's your physical health because medicine flows through advances in science as well as our security well there's people that deny some aspects of science while conveniently using other that's where it gets weird right you're driving a car that's relying on GPS you're using a phone to complain about the global warming hoax you know you're correct what one of my more more sort of popular tweets was you remember when they we had the photo of the black hole from a distant galaxy and it was banner headlines maybe a year ago less than a year ago banner headlines and first photo ever of a black hole and it was an astounding engineering achievement to accomplish that it was multiple telescopes all around the world pooling the data to get it right and it was one of the greatest collaborative efforts we've ever undertaken in my field of astrophysics okay and everybody was loving the results so all I tweeted was scientist report first photo of a black hole public scientists report humans are warming the earth oh no you brought it up ok scientists we produce the first ever image of a supermassive black hole 55 million light years away the response scientist we've concluded that humans are catastrophic ly warming the earth response that conflicts with what I want to be true so it must be false well that is the cherry-picking of science it is the cherry-picking assignments but the global warming thing is very much connected to a certain type of ideology a certain type of person thinks to the matter to me no nonsense person what I'm saying yes it does matter what I'm what I'm trying to say is that is a demographic that has cherry-picked science to deny human-caused global warming there are other Democratic demographics said of cherry-picked other science to deny other things and it's not all located in one political spectrum I mean one political branch right so you tend to find liberal folk complaining that the conservatives who have embraced know the gluten no global warming platform are denying science and they need science on their side and many of those same people are rubbing crystals together to be healed by the crystal energy or they're denying vaccines thinking that there's somehow bad for you and so so all of this requires sum or total rejection of mainstream science and we're living in that world now and I don't know I don't think it'll stop the progress of civilization but it can certainly slow it down and occasionally stall it well that is certainly a problem but how big of a problem is it like how many people are really in denial of science in 2019 and it's got to be for me in a free country that's not what matters what matters is in a free country that you elect officials who are not officials yes you you elect people who are scientifically literate yeah they don't have to be scientists I or and if they're not scientifically literate they should be self-aware of that and then listen to people who are right so don't you think what they're doing though is they're they're doing what their constituents would like them to do that's why I don't beat politicians over the head ever I don't do that we're we're we're Republic we're democracy whatever they believe if they think earth is 6,000 years old and they got elected it's because the people elected them believe there's he earth is 6,000 years old or because they're willing to let that one go because they believe in Oh possibly that's a good point because you have a portfolio of thoughts and beliefs or because he's such a profound Christian I mean he's so profoundly Christian that he's plenty of Legends who are connected to science that don't including the Pope by the way you know can you get more Christian than the Pope all right he believes in science now this new pope is pretty interesting if you read if you read his encyclical from a couple of years ago it's it's it's a scientifically literate doc document yeah and know this okay so it's not he's still religious right so Jesus still rose from the dead and there was still miracles and all the rest of that in the New Testament so he's not in denial of that but given that he is saying oh my gosh here's something we the religious community and scientists can partner behind and that if we want to save life on Earth and so we have to be better shepherds of what is going on on this earth and one of them is we don't want to flood low-lying countries in the South Pacific where the average sea level is 10 feet above sea level or whatever it is you're gonna lose these countries if you keep melting our-our-our the nothing ice caps because that would include a north and there's no land in the north so the glacier ice that's land-based ice right because any ice that's in the water floating that can melt and it's not going to change the water level so it's why you can do this experiment it's really cool fill up your glass put some few cubes of ice in a glass of water fill the glass up as much as you possibly can without spilling it and the ice is bobbing above that level okay because ice is about 10% buoyant on that about 10 percent of an ice cube will be lifted above this is this is the this is the iceberg equation right all right that's the tip of the iceberg well you see the 10% above and 90% is not visible to you this is by the way I don't want to get to too many off-ramps here but that's one of the one of the things that they did right in Titanic okay if you look at the earliest Titanic movie that was in black and white they see this huge iceberg on the horizon and then it can they can't square away from it because it oh my gosh it doesn't have to no no the iceberg that cuts the bottom of your boat is a little bit I sticking out above the water because 90% of it is underwater and that's where the damage occurs and in the James Cameron Titanic the iceberg that they hit above water was looks like a little chunk of ice no that couldn't hurt anything all the damage was under work anyhow so back to this so do this experiment and then let the glass sit there and let the ice melt and the water level will stay the same because when ice melts it gets takes up lower volume than it was when it became ice mmm and that's why pipes break I thought pipes break just because the water expands yeah I just described that in the opposite direction oh I didn't know it gets larger that's what expansion means what kind of with your vocabulary here right now but I'm saying like so your ice cube is sitting at 10% of your ice cube is sitting 10% above the water level and it melts and becomes water the water takes up 90% of the volume of the ice right so that just melts back into the water and it doesn't overflow even though we're sticking above the water line when you had the glass so now let's do the opposite okay there's water in the pipes well can I tell you something that might blow your mind no how many times does your mind you at least once a day yeah at least we need your mind blown okay here's how it works okay so let's put water in the pipes okay and then the temperature drops the pipes have a certain strength right copper pipes you know they're rigid and I grew up around Bray and pipes okay so no Massachusetts so the waters in there and now the temperature begins to drop okay the water wants to turn to ice but it can't because the pipe is containing it so it just sits there okay at 32 degrees as water even though the temperature outside is dropping below 32 degrees okay and it still sits there guess the 30 degrees 29 the pipe is squeezing the attempt of this water to become ice and the act of squeezing it prevents the temperature from dropping okay and you as the temperature drops depending on how strong the pipe is and and the temperature gradient across it as the outside temperature continued it gets to now 25 degrees the pipe is still holding on to the liquid water and it's still 32 degrees inside there and it olds on to it and this keeps happening it keeps having you get a point where the pipe can no longer contain the water and the water freezes spontaneously it just goes right down to that temperature and the pipe is helpless in the face of this so the point is the stronger the pipe is the lower the temperature has to be outside for the freezing water to break so theoretically if you had a pipe that was made of a stronger material than copper you can get even lower than you get even lower temperatures how low can you get I cuz that when things freeze they have to expand so what not only when water freezes water expand when it's it's it's a it's a remarkable fact about water that is shared by very few other ingredients most things when they cool they shrink as all men know so so so most most materials because things cooler the vibrating molecules slow down and they take up less space water is the opposite of that as it passes down through so so I'm gonna describe to you an extraordinary fact about water and why we're alive today okay so watch this let's take a lake that has fish in it okay temperature drops outside and the lake slowly begins to get cooler because there's a tank time lag between the air temperature and the waters that's why the first freeze the lake is still there it's got to be cold longer alright so what happens the water gets cold on the surface okay and it begins to okay the water gets cold on a surface and it begins to shrink so that water falls this shrink that makes a denser it falls to the bottom fine it does that down to about four degrees Celsius as it goes from 43 Celsius to zero degrees Celsius the freezing point it begins to expand and become less dense than the water so now as the water wants to actually freeze it stays on top when it does freeze you freeze the top surface of the lake well how about the water below it it's insulated from the dropping air temperature and the fish don't die imagine if ice were denser than water what would happen you'd freeze the top layer it would sink the bottom is frozen freeze the next layer it sinks and fish would be systematically forced to swim in shallower and shallower waters until they were all freeze dried on the top surface of the lake and all fishes would be dead every winter I think it's every Lake things fish what I think you supposed to say fishes fishes is a double plural you could do that yeah you know fish would be dead you know I'm all deer would you say all deers well because generally it's one if you had multiple kinds of deer yeah so if you had like yeah but it's rare that they're all in the same place you generally have one kind of do normally but if the ocean has many kind of fish in the same place oh yeah that's interesting so you'd say fishes fishes it's like it's a double floor it's different kinds of plural fish yeah double blow my mind the many fishes in the oh yeah yeah yeah so sorry she's in the sea yeah so multiple plurals of different have to get we're ocean water freezes salty salt water do you have the word fishes up there some weird anomaly that happened where there was two or little oxygen in the water and somehow the frozen fish got pushed out in a wall of ice South Dakota so there's too little oxygen I don't know I can't explain that over there if you look at the if you look at the green in the water most likely it's algae so that happens with certain lakes that get polluted with certain types of a you can kill the lake but by doing that well you get it in the ocean to get these zones but I don't see how you get frozen fish though that's incredible but stop go back up yeah scroll down so we could read it fish frozen a wall of ice and South Dakota's Lake Andes National Wildlife Refuge that's incredible man is that a video Jaime yeah I don't know how they froze because they can just swim to where it's not frozen so I'd have to I'd have to do more homework on that one to see what what caused that Wow so my point is because of this property of water that ice floats it insulates the bottom layers of the lake and fish can survive over the winter that's work too right insulate so you can inside you get a yeah sure yeah yeah I mean if you put a barrier between you and the changing elements outside that's basically an insulating layer ice fishing know I never know that a university life person wait do women go ice fishing to get away from their husbands they do yeah why do people golf you know the ice fishing is particularly weird because you have to continually scoop out the ice and maybe even drill again right so that works because frozen water is less dense than non frozen water and it's one of the rare ingredients for which that's oh and it's likely there would be no life on land or anywhere on earth if that were the case if the opposite of that were the case so water is a very special ingredient to life on earth it's cited by many religious folks is saying see earth is sacred for these it's in the list of special ingredients for what make earth habitable for life that is a really strange thing though that if you can contain it somehow an incredibly strong pipe yes it won't freeze yes it won't freeze what is a temper is there a number well that's why that's why pipes don't freeze when it just hits 30 degrees outside that's not when you hear it it freezes when it gets really low when you crack it yeah and then it'll break the copper like it's paper and tear it like it's like it's nothing now on the flip side of that try this at home take an ice cube that's like at 30 degrees okay how would you measure that pull out an ice cube and just because there'll be at near zero Fahrenheit if you if you have a good freezer just pull out and leave it on the counter put put it on a wooden cutting board okay and just let it sit there for like 10 minutes and it's temperature will come up there'll be a point where it hasn't melted yet but you can take it and squeeze the ice cube and you can force it to melt by squeezing it because you're forcing it into a smaller volume that it currently contains and the only way you can accomplish that is if the ice turns to water then it will occupy a smaller volume so the act of squeezing ice can actually melt it so if you had some sort of a pipe that could physically constrict like something that had threads it in there could wind down to a smaller size you could stick a cylinder of ice in it and you could slowly crank it oh yeah yes yes it would melt yes you can melt if you have some machine that squeezed ice yeah and the colder the ice is the hard this the the more you the the harder it would be for you to squeeze it to accomplish that so it's sort of fun with ice in fact you know what else you can do this is a harder experiment to do if you take us a a mesh like a screen mesh that's to be sort of wider openings then a screen door would so what would this be like a fence like a chain-link fence and hold horizontally and get a big block of ice and just place it on top a block of ice is heavy what will happen is the ice the weight of the ice will melt the ice in the contact points of the chain itself because it's feeling that pressure to squeeze it into a smaller volume but by the time it melts the ice has now passed through the grate and it will refreeze on the other side so you can actually pass a block of ice through a chain-link fence vertically just by pushing it yeah it's pretty it's pretty cool it's a slow experiment but it's wrong I meet depends on the temperature the ice and how and how and how much it weighs because the pressure is what this is why this is why you can ice skate why can you skate on ice because the edge of the blade is very high pressure on the ice and it's melting a bead of order you're actually gliding on water when you're skating you're not skating on slippery ice really yes I thought you were just cutting the ice with the blade well so the blade have you ever seen a sharpened blade it's not just flat there's actually a concave cross-section to it so each edge the left edge and the right edge is is basically at a knife edge mm-hmm okay not quite as sharp as a knife but it's you can feel how it's it's sharp so that when you lean on that edge either your inner edge or outer edge your entire bodyweight is being held up on this on a very narrow surface area of the blade so the pressure is extreme it's like you know thousand pounds per square inch you don't weigh a thousand pounds but you're not skating on a square inch right so you you do the math on that and what you can have is you will skate and you're actually what makes it so slippery on ice skates is because you're moving on a bead of water that freezes right behind you as you go past it dude yeah so it's possible for ice to be so cold you can't really skate on it because even that pressure is not enough to melt it how cool would it have to be that I last I did a calculation was really cold like tens of degrees below zero how does dry ice work oh it's just frozen carbon dioxide that's all so here's the difference here's the difference you have a block of frozen h2o and a block of frozen co2 so there they are it turns out the air pressure on earth is high enough at sea level is high enough to allow the ice to melt and sustain a liquid state okay the co2 under air pressure normal air pressure it wants to melt but it can't sustain a liquid and it goes straight to gas if we had much higher air pressure you could you could have co2 melt and have liquid co2 so now watch what happen so so okay kind of blow your mind again this is just this is really good stuff okay it's good like physical chemistry so here you go so watch it happens so what happens if I reduce the air pressure okay well the transition from ice to water is still the same it's not affected but the boiling point is affected as you know cooking times have to be adjusted on mountaintops because when you boil water it's not 212 degrees depending on the height of the mountain there's less air pressing down that that's preventing it from boiling okay the boiling point is not some absolute facts about the water it has to do with what the air pressure is sitting above it if you have extremely high air pressure water has to go to a much higher temperature before it boils so our so the boiling point of water that's reported in all textbooks is at sea level at one atmospheric pressure that's how you get 212 degrees if you start reducing the atmospheric pressure it's 210 degrees 205 degrees 200 degrees 190 degrees 180 degrees 180 oh yes and so that's not as hot as 212 degrees so you got to cook the food longer all cooking times are increased for this reason so now watch I'm not done with you Oh let's keep reducing the air pressure okay theoretical like possible on earth no no Himalayas yeah but or take it up you can ascend in some kind of copter or some kind of device our air balloon or whatever but I'm saying you can do this experiment in in a laboratory okay okay you keep reducing the air pressure boiling port keeps dropping it's a hard in 70 degrees 150 hundred twenty a hundred degrees Fahrenheit 80 degrees Fahrenheit fifty degrees Fahrenheit forty degrees Fahrenheit thirty-two degrees Fahrenheit holy shed what happens the ice melts and becomes water the water evaporates and becomes steam and all of that's happening at 32 degrees there is an atmospheric pressure for which water ice and steam coexist and it's called the triple point of water and all ingredients have a triple point Wow Mars Mars is very close to the triple point of water so you can have you can have a simultaneous bath in certain regions of Mars a simultaneous bath because the air pressure is so low is like one one-hundredth Earth's air pressure it's very very low so you know a place where a pot of water ice cubes and steam are coming out all at once it's at the triple point so so so here's the lesson here is we live life in our world at one atmospheric pressure at one the room temperature atmospheric pressure and we define what is normal based on that life experience based on how our senses interact with that environment but the actual universe is far freakier than what we that what our senses are exposed our five senses are exposed to on earth what did you think about Elon Musk's idea about nuking the poles of Mars in order to make it warmer yes so some of these are kind of pie in the sky ideas right but let's let's get to what he's trying to get at what you want to do is you want to introduce warmth you want to block the ozone you want to block the ultraviolet it's so that you can protect organic life all right so we have an ozone layer it's three oxygen atoms oh three and oxytocin likes ultraviolet light so ultraviolet light comes from the Sun and gets eaten by ozone it gets eaten and when you do that the ultraviolet light doesn't make it to Earth's surface so even though they sell where wears sunscreen and you've sunblock 45 yes that's for the 1% of the ultraviolet that gets through the atmosphere if you're above the atmosphere you are fried so the because ultraviolet is highly hostile to organic molecules and what we're made of as life so you want to protect you want to give life a chance so you want to not only heat Mars you want to find a way to block the ultraviolet light coming from the Sun so you need some mechanism if not ozone or it just live underground for example okay and so so I don't think we should think of the idea as a literal thing but just it's a general principle of what you want to accomplish on Mars in doing so you want to warm it you want to protect what could be the future of biochemistry and then you see it and you and then you wait you don't know wait too long you want to sort of speed it up if you could and then you terraform Mars SpaceX has I've visited him a couple of times he's he's got a mug you can buy there then it has Mars on it okay and then you put put hot liquid in it and Mars turns to an arable blue-green marble so yeah it's very good and it doesn't tell you that when you so I got a Mars mug you know and you show it off and oh my gosh what did that happen it's an earth mug but it doesn't look like Earth there's a lot of people that go on also we think there's a lot of water that was once on Mars which is a certainty and we think it's just sitting below in a permafrost so you wouldn't have to bring water to Mars by the way in the really distant future you can just redirect a comet and get all the water you need but how far distant is that the Comets everywhere dude we're in a shooting gallery yeah that's not what I asked oh do you think it is before we could read the ref our weight in time yes okay sorry we know how to do it but there's no real incentive so there's no engineering funded engineering plan to do it but we know how to do it on paper we know how to do it conceivable way oh yeah you so there so first of all it happens with or without us because we are in the shooting path of countless thousands of asteroids and comets so what you would do is you'd find one that's headed close to us anyway in the seventh orbit down the line or the hundredth orbit down the line and then you'd slightly deflect it in such a way that it would then collide with Mars or even earth if you wanted the earth needed some more fresh water yeah I heard that there's a possible but it ain't the problem is if something really big that would fill lakes worth if that collided with earth that would just be bad for life on earth because it's a spontaneous deposit of energy that can change the climate and do it so you want to do that on a planet that you're trying to terraform isn't that the speculation of how water got here in the first place so if the jury's still out on that there's there tags in the oceans in the water molecule that tell you that the water must have come from more than one source so that's what's confusing things we want it to be a simple thing it all came by comets or it all came from inside the earth through volcanoes volcanoes emit Lakes and historically lakes and oceans worth of water just out of there out of there calderas so so the problem is what as we say in science over determined there's plenty of comets to have delivered all the water there's plenty of water that could have come out of out of volcanoes to give us all the way so but in the oceans it's clearly a mixture and so the final word is still out on that what do you think about what's going on why now with the protesting of the building of this largest and latest telescope yes the the the TMT 30 meter telescope which would be you know the largest ever by far of any kind of telescope the history of astronomy is one where bigger telescopes become bigger buckets to collect light that's the only telescopes today are the same as telescopes when they were invented they're just bigger all right the principle behind them is bigger because what they're doing is simple all you're trying to do is get as much light as possible and the more light you get dimmer is the object you can detect and the farther away is the object you can see and so for every generation of new large telescopes that have been built it is it has increased and deepened our understanding of our place in the universe so that's just the that's the background the proposal is for a thirty meter telescope largest ever on the Big Island of Hawaii in Mauna Kea where there other telescopes there well that's where the Keck is right yeah I think if I it's where the Keck is I think they they sighted it in a place that sort of tucked behind most sight lines to it but that's not so much what's important here it's that the Native Hawaiians from what I've read view the mountain as a sacred place and so to put a telescope yet another telescope there becomes sort of invasion of sacred land and so so yeah it's it's it's a there's a standoff last I looked I mean people protesting in the streets and there's some Native Hawaiians who embrace this because it means jobs high high quality jobs engineering jobs he's got to build it got to maintain it there's an entire supportive infrastructure for that that means jobs and it's done in collaboration with the University of Hawaii and the all the other telescopes are partnered with the University of Hawaii where people are educated there and so so at the end of the day you have to ask well how are you going to make decisions going forward are you make them democratically then you take a vote or you do you want the natives to to be the deciders of their own fate and is that democratic okay so in the natives vote okay or is it the few people who are protesting do they win the day I mean it's it's complicated and it's very it's very there are a lot of nuanced issues going on there there's a there's a branch of thinking that the the United States government and and normal municipal leaders have no authority over it there's some who claim that this is native hawaiian property that does not belong to any municipal entity of the US government so therefore even state representatives have no say right so there's a lot going on there okay but if I were to weigh in this is how I would do so okay I would say first I think what should happen is I don't know if they even have the the infrastructure system is set up but if they could set it up this way if the mountain is viewed as sacred by the natives the natives should have entire say of what happens to the mountain okay that's how I think that should be so now what you want to make sure is that whatever decision gets made and voted upon by the natives that it's fully informed you are you don't want to vote being misinformed or under informed in any election let alone whether you're voting for a telescope on your sacred mountain okay otherwise you're voting out of nowhere right yeah you know you're influencing your future based on partial information and decisions based on partial information or bad decisions no matter what okay so I would say hold the vote with the natives and make sure everybody's fully informed and here's a bit of information I just want to add to the information okay you know what we do as astrophysicists we study the universe rather passively at that we sit there at the end of a telescope and wait for light to reach us it's not a petri dish where we stir it or heat it or freeze it or crack it or we're just kind of there communing with the cosmos my PhD thesis was significantly fed by data that I obtained from mountaintops at telescopes I got my data from mountains in Chile settar to Lola and it employed all the natives of the natives the local local people that's another telescope that so there's all these telescopes that all have specific access points to the universe they're not all asking the same questions right and so it's the collection of all the data that gives us the complete understanding what we think is a complete understanding of the universe so what we do is try to understand our place in the universe and all I'm gonna say is that if you have power over what happens on that mountain and it's sacred to you because whatever that is it is something important to you and your sense of your understanding of your place in this world that would be spiritual significance I can tell you that what we learn as astrophysicists from those mountaintops gives us a deeper understanding of who and what we are in this universe so I would say that whatever is your concept of God be it the creator of the universe the spirit energy that pervades all of space and time whatever is your concept the discoveries of astrophysicists bring you closer to it I get your perspective let me be the opposing view they feel well I'm not trying to no I know this is information I'm putting this is information and I walk out of the room and then you all vote right I'm not you know we believe in democracy here and majority rules that's it that's kind of a good thing it's kind of worked all right but if it's not majority rules I don't know how they're going to make decision but let's say invent a future where the natives vote if they vote I wanted to make sure they heard what I just said and and now take control of your own fate I just don't think they care I think they've decided that that's a sacred space and they don't want anybody doing anything to it then that's their decision them you think that's okay I know I don't I don't judge Peeples but if you wanted to make a convincing appeal to them know what I just told you that's it that is all I would tell them and when they vote I want them to understand that fact I could take it one step further and say mountaintops because of the access they give astrophysicists and and by-proxy us all to the universe our sacred places to scientist okay now it's not sacred in a religious sense but it's sacred in a in terms of a pathway to knowing and understanding who and what we are in this universe we place great value on that so but it's not our land that's with you know specifically these things have Europeans didn't come to Hawaii and find fine legions of scientists they're conducting experiments okay they found a t'v peoples governing themselves so so so that's that the consequence if it gets voted down and that's permanent and there's no way around that that telescope is still gonna be built it just won't be built in Hawaii well where will it be built there you have to be built on mountaintops yeah so there are the mountaintops an issue right yeah you want to be above you know somewhat see clouds and haze and and you want a dry environment so there's less rain I went to see what clouds you visited yeah very good the Keck more than ten years ago the first time and it was I got very fortunate it was a night where the moon was not out yes moon is not the astronomers favorite thing yeah you want the darkest sky you can we were worried as we were driving up there that was really cloudy but we drove through the clouds and got to the top and we got to the observatory and it was the most amazing without telescopes just we there was telescopes there but without telescopes it was the most amazing view of the sky I'd ever seen in my life and it changed my perspective of our place in the universe looked like you were on a spaceship like we were flying through the universe because of the diffuse lighting in on the big island because it's all set up so that it doesn't ruin what they're trying to accomplish at the CAC reflections in the wrong place not only that if there was a moon out and you did ascend up through the clouds the moonlight illuminates the clouds and you are an island in the middle of white cotton yeah and you're not even connected to the earth it's what you imagined Mount Olympus would have been I've been there for them when that happens with the gods up there and it's kind of that's their place it's there so so so yes and so any my my brethren my fellow astrophysicist who have also observed from mountaintops by the way it's becoming a lost art because it's not lost but it's becoming something we don't do anymore something called service observing will you put in your observing program and it's Hana to a technician at the telescope who points the telescope gets the data and sends it back to you so the next generation doesn't have the experience that my generation did because there was a pilgrimage to the top of the mountain and you converted your life's path you we converted your life schedule to become nocturnal and in so doing you you know this is the journey was long enough because you're in the middle of nowhere now you got to go nocturnal and by the time you're ready for this you are communing with the cosmos it is you the detector the telescope and the universe and there's an eerie silence up there too because you don't hear any the hum of maybe the the drop of the motor or of the telescope but that's it and so so all I'm saying is if they choose to not have it the tell us we'll go somewhere else one of them is the Canary Islands these are also volcanic hilltops not as high as as Mount aquella that's at 14,000 feet by the way I should have checked it what temperature water boils at the top amount of K we could have rounded that story out but I think it's around a hundred eighty degrees actually I think I did actually calculate it one time but anyhow so so you'd find a mountaintop and we'll put it somewhere else and the data won't be as good but that'll be a consequence of it and none of that'll go to Hawaii how do you think that's gonna get resolved though if you had to guess I don't know um I uh I just don't know a lot of people are against it including Jason Momoa Aquaman's against it Oh uh-huh who's out there protesting yeah and so when you get celebrity types to put the weight of their name behind it it it magnifies the cause of others even if they're in the minority yeah and so I like I said I think natives should has everyone know who all the natives are is it is there some listing so that they can all vote for this one thing you wouldn't want people voting who are not native if you're voting on whether it's so sacred you don't want to put a telescope there you'd want people who have a an indigenous an indigenous concern for what goes on there and indigenous in reference to Hawaii's relative every message of the word indigenous is relative yeah especially with Hawaii because the only indigenous people are black people in Africa because life human life began in Africa you everyone else traveled to where they were so so native its you set a timeframe to declare what is native and what's not yeah and a native and it's in its simplest form is are you born there so I'm a native New Yorker I'm born there but I wasn't the original settler there I would my species did not form on Manhattan Island so everybody traveled to where they are they just got there before the Europeans and so that has become the definition of indigenous all right were you there when the Europeans landed then you're indigenous but to other life-forms on that on that rock on that hawaii's are a volcanic it's a volcanic archipelago you know how that happens by the way you have all these multiple volcanoes in there sir and a string you ever wonder why how that happens so you did wonder what you did you know why oh because there's a hot spot beneath Earth's crust it's just sitting there okay and when you're beneath Earth's crust stuff doesn't move around the way it does on Earth's crust Earth's crust shifts okay so that hot spot gurgles up makes a volcano then the hot spot goes dormant but the cot that shelf still drifts you still have continental drift so it drifts then the hot spot says time for me to gurgle again it girls up now you get another volcano and then it goes dormant that volcano goes dormant it shifts you get another one any time you see an of Islands jet guarantee they're made by volcanoes over enough time for continental drift to have shifted the plates over the hot spot of Earth's mantle so do you think what they're concerned with is the eventual spoiling of this beautiful natural resource that slowly but surely people are putting up houses there and developments and all these different things and then the scientists are saying we need this sacred land because we're gonna put a volcano and they like look this is already this is already a I mean we're gonna put a telescope there's already a telescope up here enough you think that's what it is they're trying to halt the progress of civilization or I mean maybe progress is a bad word the expansion of civilization yeah I mean let's go back what did Teddy Roosevelt - he said we got to preserve these lands yeah because they're beautiful and by the way he said that after he shot all those elephants and tigers lions and tigers and bears yeah I mean I hail from a museum the American Museum of Natural History would where he's the patron saint of that museum what happened was he realizes how important this land is and how beautiful it is and he is the he's the patron saint of the National Park System so so that's the secular version of sacred right we don't say it's sacred but we've all decided as a community that we care about these lands and you don't want to drill on it you don't want to put housing was it Lyndon Johnson's wife Lady Bird Johnson who said our freeways that were so carefully building after the Second World War the Eisenhower freeway project okay you know the interstate system is this is our country we want to keep it beautiful so certain wretches over there are no billboards billboards would you know would change your relationship to nature so certain stretches of interstate or secularly sacred if I can say that so I remember visiting visiting Australia and there's the the famous rock in the out in the outback the police help me I get I get my correct pronunciation of this uluru and it said it's I'm told it's one coherent geologic rock it's not just an assembly of rocks and so I don't know enough about the geology of it but I do know that the Australian Aborigines uluru and ok iconic red rock look at that cool thing okay so that is one sort of geologic thing and and climbers want to climb it but that's heat its miles in circumference okay so we visited it I rented a bicycle with my wife and kids and we rode around it okay so now that is sacred to the local indigenous peoples so they don't want you to climb on it well I'm a rock climber right you know what do you care I'm not gonna ruin it I'm not gonna they don't want you to climb on it and I try to think to myself is there a counterpart to this that would sort of wake up a westerner to say I get it alright now suppose some people from so natives from Alaska or from the some tribes from Africa or some Aborigines came up from these remote places of the world walked up to the Vatican and said we want to climb the walls of this Vatican just for sport what would we say we want to climb the walls of st. Paul's Cathedral in downtown London what would you say no yeah but are those comprable maybe we want to down the tower of Big Ben you're gonna say no get the [ __ ] you would say no these are important structures to us no are you gonna say are the equivalent all we built those you know the natives didn't build the rock right exactly okay it depends on how important that detail is to you all I'm saying is on the level of weeks say this is sacred you say that is sacred and now you're gonna have different rules for who's climbing what I think it'll for to force you to take pause so here's an argument in full in like supporting what you're saying look at what's going on with the Himalayas I mean it's the human [ __ ] that they had they leave behind their welcome I'm so disturbing yeah the climbers yeah it's horrible it's really horrible I mean they there's tons of it tons of human waste okay so what you do there is if it's still not a problem that people are climbing it's that they're leaving waste you don't stop the climbers you tax them at some level so then now you have cleanup crews that come up after them good so they're your own Taksim you make it worth it all right understand like they leave the bodies up there right you know that they can't that's what I heard that's what I heard well why do you think they can bring tons of [ __ ] when they can't even bring bodies here's what I'm saying when they invented cars and cars were killing people in the street because people have known how to cross the street they don't know where to cross the street people don't know how to stop the cars they say well cars are actually a pretty useful thing do we ban cars no we make stoplights oh people across our will we make crosswalks oh let's put lanes so the cars don't hit each other and and let's make airbags so that you don't fly through the windshield alright so there are ways around problems if you value the thing that it is that you want to do so if people even crap up there you make them bring it back or you develop a system that enables the stuff to come back no matter what and if you can't do that you don't want it messed up then cancel the whole operation we didn't cancel cars we got really innovative about having kids difference between cars and human [ __ ] that's left in the side of the mountain I think the real problem too is I think if you value mountain climbing and you want to keep doing it then you've solved the problem this is what engineers do that's all they do right because what's your problem solve it being able to bring those bodies back because the physical limitations of the human body it's barely you barely have enough juice to climb it's so thin the air so thin it's so dangerous and the energy draw on you is so long leave those bodies there was that the human ship that you're talking about or Zell there's no you're talking about the fact that humans were there that we got we were not very clean about our presence that's what you're talking about well we're just being human we have to go and you got to go you got to go when we got to go up there you just open up the hatch and let it rip down the side of a mountain and the resulting you know in the space station they recycle your urine and your then your crap congratulations to them yeah because that put engineers on the problem I mean my cycle it they extract all the water from it and then what's left is highly dried and he joined in a role yeah yeah water is water its water molecule that's the thing about by the way every graph you see this people's pee is in it that's correct yeah so you got about a bottle of water here hey vampy okay this has Napoleon's penis yes yes there are more molecules of water in this bottle then there are bottles of water this volume of order in all the world's oceans so in other words if you drank this and peed it out okay you have enough molecules in european-- your sweat and then in the the moisture that you exhale all that goes back into the environment scattering into all sources water of the world and there's enough of those molecules to occupy every half liter of water that that covers the surface of this earth so that given enough time you scoop a cup of water out of there I don't even care if you filter it the h2o is still there that is water that has passed through the kidneys of Abraham Lincoln Genghis Khan mm-hmm Joan of Arc hey Socrates Plato no Jesus can I get a bottle of geez I'm trying to get my Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure at list going here okay you just ruined it but yes Jesus would be included in that so would Socrates yes so that is the scent by the way the same is true with breath of air there are more molecules of air in every breath you take then there are breaths of air in all the atmosphere of the earth so when you exhale there's enough of those molecules to scatter and the the the air currents will do this to scatter into every breath of air that is inhale so when you take a breath of air you have molecules of air that went through the lungs of Jesus we're all connected and there's no way around it and the water that we have is the water that we have right we drink it we pee it yeah because the atmosphere comes down as rain yeah and the rain is the an important difference is a lot most of the water on Earth is salt water that you can't drink there's a limited amount that's fresh water how much of a by the way all the glaciers are freshwater because that's it's frozen rain right frozen rain here's something that no one talks about when the glaciers melt where does the water go where's it go just tell me you know the answer just back in the ocean okay so but this is now non salty water going into the ocean so you're mixing fresh water with brackish water and they occupy different places in the vertical profile of the ocean and because salt water is heavier than fresh water so the freshwater occupies the top right that's not as salty as the water at the blow and there are circulations in the ocean not only up and down you know northern latitude southern latitude like the Gulf Stream there's also circulation top to bottom and the combinations of all these circulations create the stability of the ocean if you disrupt that oh my gosh there are animals fishes that can't live anymore where they to be because the salt level is different and so some animals might go extinct some weather patterns will change because the ocean affects climate so these are this is why climate modeling is so critical yet so complicated is because a lot of variables that show up why can't we take the salt out of the water you can it just takes energy you can do but why isn't that been being Donna you can't you have to ask you who's paying for the energy where you getting the energy from it's an energy thing but I would think that would be very valuable I mean think about how many people it's not valuable enough yet that's the point well is it that it's it's just money dude it's just money you can ask what does it cost to ship a bah half pint of water from Fiji ok whatever hell is the square bottle that you buy in a Fiji water is it Fiji right yeah Fiji water what does it cost to to bottle that in Fiji ship it here relative to desalinating the ocean it's cheaper to ship to Fiji there'll be a day when that's not the case and future Wars are gonna be fought over who has access to fresh water and the value of water will go up and by the way the value of water in space is ten thousand dollars a pound so if you if you last sue a comet and you say this is a lot of fresh water yeah you could I guess you can bring it back down to earth but that's expensive you're better off selling it to NASA for nine thousand dollars a pound because it costs them ten thousand dollars a pound to put water into orbit so you better off keeping it up there and somehow or another yeah and so if you--if you harness water in space you're better off trading in space with it then bringing it back down to a planetary surface at the moment the economics favor that what is the desalination process so it's it's simply you just evaporate the water it's basically a still it's it's it's it's a it's a distillery right so here's here's a pocket of water with this highly salty and you just heat it the h2o evaporates leaving sodium chloride behind and at the end you get this salt deposit at the bottom of your dish at the bottom of your vessel oh wait a minute what happens to lakes that used to be there that salty lakes that used to be there that aren't there's a salt deposit that's the source of our modern-day salt this is why tweeted the other day an all table salt is is all table salt is sea salt it just came from long buried prehistoric evaporated seas so salt mines and and I was I was told by some geologists III had had a narrow and narrow usage of the word mine I think if a mine I think of a hole in the ground but mining operations includes surface operations as well so there's surface Lakes that that have evaporated and you get salt from that as well as the mines that you would dig down deep below so that hole all of that is a mining operation my tweet only referenced the Buried ones but it's all but it's all from evaporated waters it's all from evaporated it's all sea salt is the point now nuclear power plants rely on steam right isn't that part just just to finish the point so you evaporate the water and the salt left maybe you might want to use that make some sea salt out of it table salt and that evaporated water condenses out over here and that is distilled water now you might want to mineralize it so it tastes good because distilled water doesn't taste good plus it's not really healthy to drink it as you probably know you drink distilled water it goes into equilibrium with your minerals sucking minerals out of you so it has the same minerality that your body does and then you pee it out and you'll systematically drain yourself of important electrolytes yeah so generally the water that you would say tastes good and you enjoy has some mineral bits some some some kind of mineral minerals in it now nuclear power plants don't they the process is using that nuclear energy to create steam to operate turbines and yeah basically all of our electricity that comes from essentially the mostly electricity is coming from turbines that convert steam to electricity so it's oh sorry so you heat water the water makes steam the steam turns the turbine and the earning turbine generates the electricity so so you it's it's a matter of where do you get the energy to boil the water that's what it comes down is it call is it oil is it is it nukes is it wind is a hydro all of this if you get a hydro plant oh by the way then a hydro plant they don't have to make steam because they have the water the water pressure at the base of the dam moves through the turbines that turns the turbines and they make electricity so you don't have to heat anything because they have the water pressure to do that anyway that is also solar power by the way because the Sun evaporated ocean water the water lifts up becomes a cloud the cloud moves over ground over the land the cloud rains into the lake that is above the dam so the energy that got the water up there in the first place is all solar so you should think of hydroelectric as solar as well as wind energy because wind is the uneven an equal heating of air on Earth's surface and that creates air currents that's also solar power there's also this also work isn't it conceivable that you could come up with a combination of desalination and power plant where you're using the heat to combine you know to make the turbines move and then you steam it off and that's where you get the water from that would be a good that's an interesting idea and I don't know how much that's been thought about what you're saying is I'm making steam anyway yeah so why don't I do it suck with salt water out yeah yeah and make that's a nice two for one kind of thing three for one you get salt and salt out the other side yes salt gets all you fresh water get fresh water and you generate electricity yeah so do patent it no it's free for anybody wants it no take that run with it I have high hopes for tidal energy because there's certain places on earth where tides are very powerful and they're very and you just put some paddles in there and you sort of and it and it works both ways when the water comes in and out no this is battery technology that's the reason why la isn't completely dependent upon solar because it seems like this is the spot to do it like it never rains I mean if it rains here 50 days yeah it's crazy or any desert right and we're you would next door to the Mojave Desert right so so one of the problems is by the way the deserts are generally localized to certain latitudes on earth it's because of general circulation on earth so the air pockets on earth there's a lot going on earth air moves in a lot of ways but there's a there's an overriding circulation of air that has air sort of rising up at the equator imagine a cylindrical movement of air that that that Gerdes the earth okay so just above the equator you have a cylinder rotating where you have air rising and just below the equator you have a cylinder rotating the opposite wave so that air is still rising at the equator okay so it rises at the equator its unstable it makes clouds the equators one is the cloudiest place on earth practically one of the cloudiest places well how about the other side of those cylinders where the air descends okay okay when you have descending air you don't make clouds well how big is the cylinder it's about thirty degrees of latitude wide so your rainiest places on earth are at the equator that's where you get the Amazon rainforest in the lake and your driest places on earth or at 30 degrees north and 30 degrees south because these cylindrical movements of air have descending air there so the Mojave Desert the Sahara Desert the Gobi Desert they're all around 30 degrees north latitude so this so we live on the surface of the earth where there are forces operating that are so much bigger than us that we would not even think about it why is an India would be a desert because it's right in that zone we're it not for the seasonal monsoons it doesn't rain much in India except when it's monsoon season so the monsoon is sort of the exception what would otherwise happen there and that's why everyone loves the monsoon and they hate it but they love it it cools the whether they get sources water there it is so they ask you the question again okay not answered sorry oh so so so battery technology like what why isn't LA completely solar it should be it's not that some of it is cost la is so car heavy all right and plus you know there's a Lamborghini passing me at 20 miles an hour on the 405 that this is the the land of wasted horsepower right so any place that has a lot of sunlight should be thriving on solar panels and you guys aren't I looked around very few how very few homes have solar panels and I don't fully understand that you could if you did that then you'd run your own run off your own power you can do this yeah you can do the equation difficult by the way and so so yeah I mean the price might have to come down a little further you don't really see the full price of oil it's it's subsidized in ways that are not obvious to us you know we built the roads with our taxes so that car companies could sell you a car that you drove on the road that they that was built for them if they have to build all their own roads the price of gas to go in the car would have been much higher the price of your car would have been that all that would have been much higher if the car companies do it what I'm saying is I make a product and I want you to use it but there's no roads oh I convinced you to build the road so you can buy my car and drive on that road that's a weird way of looking at it but in some ways it's it's full cost accounting it's full cost accounting what is the cost of coal it's how many people died of lung disease of new mono ultra-microscopic silica volcano County OSIS okay that's the longest word in the in the Random House dictionary yeah that's basically black yes basically black line you can break it up the new mono ultra-microscopic silikov Oh with the silicates in can Akane OSIS so there's all medical bits except stapled together to make that word so so what is the cost to their health their death the air quality asthma the total cost of oil is not what you pay at the gas tank it's other things that we shell out that are not realized in the actual cost of that source of energy if you full cost accounted what all this really costs then the solar option would look way better than it does relative to it that's all I'm telling but when you're talking about cars and car manufacturers having to pay for roads isn't that they didn't say once isn't that like restaurants having to pay for toilet paper no restaurants going restaurants have to pay for land that you would park your car on to go into the restaurant not in New York City but in places where everybody has cars you don't have valet parking I my restaurant will not occupy the entire plot of land I just bought it's gonna be something's gonna be 1/4 of that land and all the rests are gonna be parking spots I have absorbed the cost of your parking your car in me in my acquisition of that of that real estate for example to make it convenient so people could use your facility correct so right but I bore that cost as as restaurateur right or maybe I'm renting of course but that's that's it does not relate to someone the car manufacturer is being forced to pay for the roads or that they should be that would have been interesting had they because then it would have changed the pricing of everything but why would they be are you gonna make a car no one has a road to drive it on it's what it's your responsibility then you don't have a business but don't you want a car yes so we all agree cars are good they move fast they get you where you want to go right so how do we as society make it easier for people to get where they want to go well we all chip in and we make roads it's not entirely - before there were cars a car nobody is sneaking you know I want to go to Chicago tomorrow and I'll be back on Thursday no one is even having that thought before they were email no one's thinking and right these are not thoughts so I'm just talking about all the forces that had to align to make it actually work okay so now what's holding back electric cars well I might not be able to charge it it takes a little too long to charge compared to my other vehicle are there enough chargers along the way well these were questions that were asked when people got cars five cars and it takes guess is there a gas station Oh Standard Oil says we'll put a gas station there because you're buying cars and so it's a whole family of businesses coming together and you're paying for a big part of that it's not just the car you paid for the roads that's all I'm saying I'm not complaining about it I'm just describing it as a reality I get it I just didn't understand the the comparison to car manufacturers paying for the days if I make a car and I want you to buy my car I need a road so I'm gonna build the road oh wait a minute I convinced you to build a road that's even better oh my gosh I made it a national priority oh it's a security problem we need a we need a military design interstate system that's what the interstates its military that's why it goes through mountains instead of over them that's why there long stretches of straightaway so you can land an airplane on it that's why they're built above the road that's where the surface roads are not the same thing as highways because the highways are not on the surface why cuz they built up why because tanks can drive on him without decomposing the road what specs did we put this to to the Autobahn the Germans invented the modern highway system they invented the cloverleaf they invented the off ramps they invented all of that and their armies could move on their roads like it was nobody's business and Eisenhower said hey we might get me some of that he comes back that's probably not how he said it I'm guessing but he comes out convinces us all that we need to build an internist I got nothing against the interstate system I'm just giving you the foundational facts for it and by the way the interstate system costs as much as going to the moon about a hundred billion dollars in total cost seems like a bargain compared to how many people use it versus the moon and it grows the economy that has a lot of a lot of but basically it was sold as a security need because if you're at war you need to move material and personnel and you might have to land an airplane in an emergency way and so all freeways do this you're gonna crash the plane do it on a freeway happens yeah but do it because you might land safely and if you don't land safely the road comes to you to get to the hospital don't crash in a forest we can't get to you right I can't get emergency vehicles good call yeah you know have you seen this new Porsche has a new electric vehicle there's about to release and I haven't seen a solution airy groundbreaking technologies charge much faster you could charge up to 80% in 20 minutes because it's double the well pull up the information was it wattage or amperage well what just just a couple of things that's different battery you can't cheat physics so so yes some batteries charge faster than others but what's what really drives the charging speed of battery is the is the voltage over which you charge the battery and it goes as the square of the voltage so super charge so if you charge a an electric car in your 120 volt home electricity it could take 30 hours if you go to 240 volts okay it'll take you know 10 hours if you go to 384 volts so you keep going up that drops precipitously and you can get a voltage where the thing will charge in a few a couple hours yeah we have a supercharger here oh he's only yeah yes I'm set up here for my Tesla so there you go which specially asked quickly yes yes yeah cool yeah so your charge in it in at most 90 minutes I don't think they call it that anymore I think they own them the superchargers no there's the the Tesla I think they call it a they have like an S raven they have difficulty s anymore no it's not the P 100 D that's the that's the heart they don't battery capacity okay now they I think they have it based on whether it's a single engine or a double engine they've simplified things the guys have removed all the labels to make it a little slicker sewed in the Porsche is it just they're selling a higher voltage charger to you or is that is the battery so completely different Google ten interesting things about the new Porsche Tyco can how do you say it I can that's the articles reading today mhm that's cool so my concern is batteries are still kind of 19th century technology yeah you know invented the battery Volta Alexandre Volta Wow that makes it's cool yeah voltage vowel is volts come from him well yeah yeah all these guys got you know they got famous so Tesla we got a car named after him the guy had a nose a car there's actually a unit of electromagnetism named after Nikola Tesla yeah it's Webber's per square meter I think so it's a it's like the the density of magnetic field strength within a certain area through through a surface so Betty she charged by an inductive plate the eventual trusted Porsche claims that the Porsche Turbo charging system charges at 300 15,000 watch kilowatts 15 minutes 80% in just 15 minutes oh that's cool it's not clear how they will prevent battery overheating maybe they want good luck so it could be vaporware but we'll see but what but it's game on that's what that means yeah it's game on whether it works or not it's like people Tesla is on notice everybody's on notice yeah oh my gosh I'm gonna lose market share because people want to buy an electric car and so you didn't want something that's gonna charge fast and that's the number one complaint that most people have over electric cars where you find a way to okay so that's one way but another way is you find a way to swap batteries as quickly as it in less time that it takes to fill a tank yeah you know how much time do you stand there with your hand on the nozzle waiting for the gas to go in alright so they would have to have a mountain of battery sitting there waiting for people to just come in is that any worse than a mountain that then at dinner then a sunken reservoir tank of gas there's no different why is that any different probably larger volume right possibly but so what if it's economic you just do it right and if the battery is all at the bottom of the car and it's going NASCAR you run in pop it up take out the battery / that's when you're off do you think that's the future why not that's better than charging the battery you don't have a car do you no I do as a yeah I do have cars now I didn't used to I didn't used to expensive his help to garage it in New York they just went up the price just went up the big the big a price point of that was when did the average cost to garage a car for a month in New York in Manhattan equal the average cost of a two-bedroom home in the United States and we've passed that cost of rent yes yeah of course Lord sir it was like some 600 a month or something - ran a parking spot you rent a parking spot right one spot one spot I'm a sonnet number month and you can rent the home in many places in the suburbs somewhere for 600 so I now have a Tesla yeah so I own it up they're expensive by the way sorry yes I have the X so that's my utility vehicle the X is the SUV a very high acceleration as you know and but yeah there's there's no maintenance on it right there's no oil change there's no you know the only moving part is the what you turn in the wheels with right there no Pistons nothing so you know cars really should have been this 100 years ago and then we would have had a hundred years of clever engineering to perfect that you ever see the documentary who killed the electric car you know I haven't but I know about it and I know some of the background story behind it and the electric car was one of the first concern because electricity was all the rage a hundred years ago let's electrify the cities this days Edison there's tests everybody wants to do everything electric and the car had just come out let's do it electric so this was not a new concept and it's unfortunate that more sort of innovative thinkers hadn't been brought to task on how to perfect the electric car speaking of Tesla electricity what did you think about Tesla's initial idea that Westinghouse shot down to sort of broadcast electricity so that people could just pull it out of the air yes so the the people in the nikola tesla fan club somehow feel that he got wronged in his life okay and surely some of that is true with regard to his business acumen and patents and and who owns the patent and who does does he have good business sense is he as savvy or as as sneaky whatever other words you might apply to Edison all right so I get that but his contributions to electromagnetism are real and recognized in the world of physics like I said there's a unit of electromagnetism named after him so don't come crying to me say he was not recognized by my people okay he's recognized he had some ideas that were a little out there and out there on a level where it almost certainly would have not worked and here's why okay electromagnetic energy is communicating between us I see you that's because visible light is reflecting off of your scalp okay to me it's reflecting off of my nose back to you you can ask how much energy is in that well not much it's not much energy in a visible light photons if you stayed there long enough you might feel a little warmth from it but no you're not gonna drive a car with that energy you're not gonna run a motor with it okay well of what good is it oh you know what we found we can use electromagnetic radio waves which are the lowest form of electromagnetic energy lowest energy level of all of your life we can straight away it's not to transmit energy that's not the point of it the point is to transmit information and information became what characterized the modern era and that's why in the 1950s and 60s when everyone is imagining flying cars and motorized sidewalks everything is running on energy because they're thinking energy is going to be free in the future but what they didn't figure was that information would be free or easy to transmit and to generate and to store and to to delete and whereas the the energy that would take to move things and to drive things that would be a problem no one saw that coming nobody saw that coming so as your photons get higher and higher energy yes you can start doing things with them you get x-rays and gamma-rays but that's not what Tesla was referring to he was talk about moving radio waves through the space that would charge things up you can't pack sufficient energy in your radio wave to do anything we need to do mechanically currently current well back then would it be sufficient it might have been something you could have done with your radio waves cuz the needs were no but no snow I take that back that was the height of the industrial revolution that was the age of the Machine the age of the giant turbines radio energy is not touching that well but wasn't it possible that he was considering it for things like radios or light bulbs or household items would it be possible to use that power for that so now what so what happens so the radio waves if you had enough power in radio waves to generate a light bulb to power a light bulb well through the air are you standing in the way of this this energy has pathways we now send energy through wires because you're not standing in the way of the wire the wire is buried the wire has insulation suspension you want to move it through the air and you want to walk around like no that's not how that works but what I've heard if you're moving inner energy through the air to power something that itself could kill you the energy powering through that moving through the air could kill you unless you you bring a little bit amount and then you store it and then use it later you could do it that way sure so we're sort of batteries yes you need a storage system but you would still probably have some sort of residual effect of having this stuff broadcast through the air and who knows what I would do to human health if you needed that much energy right now the energy to transmit information is so low that it no it has no effect on your health that's why I can pull out my cell phone I'm in a brick whether this is fake brick that's fake brick I made up bills real brick that no it's nice it is go touch it I don't believe you good was it rough bricks go touch the bricks man Jesus Christ he thinks we got fake bricks who do you think we are okay you guys thought I was a liar cut weird now let me be on there so it's a veneer a brick veneer okay the whole thing real building so it's not structural bread slice the end of bricks and then they mortar and everything okay so so we're both right we'll bring it but it's not structural this real fabric so here I am a real fake so we're inside I can pull out my cell phone and have a phone call yes these are microwaves of a frequency that can penetrate walls send information to my cell phone and I can communicate using information and not have that energy kill me but it's not enough to power the actual it is not enough to power the device correct so until us everyone is thinking he's got the solution to the future transmission of energy no he doesn't well I don't think anyone saying that but what he did and his fans do but back then there were no computers back there were no television but we did have machines it was the era of the big machine right but I don't think he was insinuating that you could use I don't know what he wanted to power with it I don't know what he would have powered with it if not light bulbs and other things you know one thing you brought up that's really interesting you talked about light reflecting off of things are you aware that BMW painted a they painted one of their cars vantablack I saw this is the jet black yeah yes I saw my soul and recently black yes so light can bounce off of it so not only can't drive it because people won't be able to see it at night Oh literally saying like this is just the theoretical you want to you can line it with with the triage of it cuz I'm sure I saw one in a parking lot it's [ __ ] it's very bad I saw one in real life it's that's not what I saw I saw a sports car purchase vantablack car they have I saw a sports car that was it was not this the car you have up there I don't know what that is what I saw a BMW that they painted vantablack okay well then that mess is black is available I'm on their badass low to the ground sports car and so what no it's not available commercially what do you want me saying so I'm saying that for BMW it's not it's not something they're off I'm in LA you have all your cars here anything that is everything showcased here what I didn't see it in New York I saw it here in LA well I'm sure or so maybe wasn't BMW maybe somebody else did and I'm just saying BMW if someone did it BMW didn't make it themselves okay someone must have done I mean you can do it it's a real thing vantablack okay so one of the principles of stealth is that if you send a signal to it it never comes back to you so you have no sort of radar measures its existence correct but there are two ways you can do that one of them is you cannot reflect back okay but so by absorbing it right okay so jet matte black will absorb it and not reflect it back but if there's enough energy coming at it it will heat up because you can't get something for nothing here it'll heat up the skin of that and it could be bad for the occupants that's what they said about the art the art will no Manta but if you put that in the desert forget it well they were saying even in Los Angeles where are so hot exactly so another way to do it is this signal comes to me and I reflect it in a direction that is not back to you so the b-2 bomber is not only non reflective back to you it takes the signal and reflects it and double bounces it so that all of your energy gets sent in other directions and not back to you so it doesn't then keep the energy that was sent to it so that's another way to do it another there's another stealth which was featured in one of the recent not recent four years ago James Bond movies where light that comes at it the light that's behind it goes around it coherently and continues to come towards you so that you think you're seeing what's behind it and it's not there you are seeing what's behind it but the path of that light went around the vessel and continue it on its way to you so you think you're just seeing the grass in the tree but there's a car sitting right there you don't know about this technology no yeah right now it exists only for very look up stealth light ray stealth so the material has to be able to know what is behind it you saying small objects only so no no only with it that only works in one sight line whereas if you needed functional stealth everybody looking at it should every path every sight line to it should be able to see what's behind it on the other side of that so the way it reflects things yeah yeah it's it carries the light beam around it and sends it out the other side you able to find yeah yeah what you have is this look like a solid block and a person is looking at it and you see their eye out the other side it's really freaky it's a future of stealth what are your thoughts on digital privacy what what do you mean well like phones yeah like phones like did you ever talk to someone about something and then you see it in your Google feed do you see ads oh yeah so we don't I mean I haven't researched this but my wife tells me we were once gifted one of these you know what do you call those things did you talk to oh yeah whatever the Google one is is that Alexa no alexis is Amazon right so it's Google at home and she said don't turn that on I said why not because it'll be listening and I didn't believe her at first and then I started hearing stories and so so I don't have one but it's not because I know that it's listening or not well substantiated there's mean actual we've said they've apologized for actual human contractors listening in to conversations that people have had having sex mm-hmm having arguments like it's real yeah I that seems like it should be a problem so what's your question to me what am i all for it or my Oh what what's your question no but the question is one of the things that you're getting out of their ability to scan things is they're tailoring things to your liking like you know a phone tells you it's 22 minutes until you get home I get it you're like [ __ ] how do you know where I live exactly I didn't tell you where I live I got here it is and I'm just old-fashioned about this okay I'm get off my lawn about this yeah I'm the old man in the rocking chair on the porch saying go Sonny get off my lawn but you're also scientist okay but I don't want to okay I wear multiple hats I'm also a dad I'm also a husband I got all these hats for all those things in this particular case I'm old man and my old man sensibility is if you track what I shop at a store what would I buy at a store and then send me coupons based on what you think I'm gonna buy next based on what I've bought before which is kind of the same thing you're describing you have denied me the chance of stumbling upon something that I never thought of buying and that takes away my freedoms and I don't want that however they denied you the chance of stumbling upon something different it's not diabolical it's just in the casual flow of life I'll give an example I walk into a wine shop hey can I help you and I say if you help me find what I'm looking for it's a guarantee that I will never find what I'm not looking for and I'll end up spending less money in your wine shop that's a weird way look it's the art of browsing dude you're old enough to remember when I got to look up this word in a dictionary and you get through six other words whoa I never knew that weird let me read that you learn other words on route to the word you're targeting I understand okay listen that is how I feel and that's how I think about my interaction with this world I'd like the randomness the randomness of it enriches my life and if you're gonna advertise to me because you think you know who I am maybe you do but I'll ultimately end up spending less money because it's the diversity of how I think and what I buy and what I think of buying and how I buy it and how much money I spend that is the richness of the life I lead your truck you're trying to channel me into some product so some something that fulfills a what I call it when they have the the study whether you're gonna buy something or not there no no the the table of people do you like this product or not focus group yeah yeah am I just a focus group to you if I am you don't know me and I want to experience this world by stepping where I've never stepped before and buying something I've never thought of buying and if you know my previous habits you're assuming I'm gonna stay that way for the rest of my life and maybe most people do and maybe I might do that but if I do is because I chose to not because you have decided that that's how I should be well don't you think the stream is jump sorry sorry don't you think they're just doing that because they think it would be effective to advertise in that way so if you go googling new Nikes and then as you're looking at something in the Google ad pops up and it's for new Nikes they said hey Neal I know you were looking at the resource we saw maybe just need a little nudge I mean it's not I don't think that's that diabolical I I'm the old man on the porch I'm saying the next generation might feel completely different they might say I love it they know exactly what I want you heard about the case where they were that I read this I haven't Rivera fide it but it's completely plausible there was a teenage girl who was googling pregnancy tests cuz maybe she got pregnant okay and the fact that she had searched pregnancy test she got coupons in the mail for baby products and a parent said what is the blood what is this she got outed that's a little weird yeah but it's the kind of thing that can happen that seems that seems intrusive certainly because pregnancy it's enjoyable in every way no don't tell me it's not intrusive because you want to be seen you physical things there's not just something that appears on your google feed that you can cook a glance over what's the difference we can send you mail to your mailbox and filling your advertising space in front of your face with product what's the one other people can see it I've walked by your computer I can see it don't look I guess I'm arguing in principle rather than in detail okay well let me take the counterpoint in the on the positive side what they're doing in terms of particularly Google in terms of your driving right and in terms of using of Google Maps and documenting the history of all these people driving and especially with things like Waze which they acquired as they've developed a much more efficient product than Apple which what Apple does the Apple maps they shred everything you do yes they do they do they all where you've been and where you're going that's correct but Apple Maps sucks so you have to because they don't have enough data they don't have nearly the amount of data Google has Billy what is Google giving you that Apple Maps isn't they're telling you you're 22 minutes from home you're time for you to drive home what's valuing that well yes and also okay map wait hold on their programs far better I can ask it how long it'll take me to go somewhere rather than it knowing what my drop what my day time schedule looks like and then coming in like you said how do you know [ __ ] you know I had that same reaction as you did and I said I wonder why what's causing this it's a little creepy and again I'm the old man syndrome some a 10 year old kid that's only ever known this and becomes 15 and 20 that is life to them right why would they even maybe they're not going to complain about it but I'm the old man on the porch but yet I'm saying it off my loss sort of intrusiveness or at the very least this connection that you have to these devices and that they have to your patterns and your information it seems inevitable that doesn't mean I have to welcome it with open arms but I agree it's inevitable I agree plus we have security cameras everywhere everybody knows where you are if the KGB had access to people the way we'd in that during the Cold War the way modern the United States has access to us we would say oh my gosh you have taken away your country's freedoms where the free leaders of the free world and you guys have imprisoned your entire population oh my gosh the KGB would give their right arm to have the monitoring devices that are actively in praat place here in the United States today mmm we know where you are we know how long you stayed there we have records of it we know what street you were walking on we don't necessarily monitor it but we can dig it up if we have to and with facial recognition I can track you wherever you are you use the facial recognition I use it now it doesn't care if I'm wearing if I'm wearing a hat or sunglasses it still knows who the hell I am yeah it relies on so many points yeah so many points of cheekbones and nose I separate and everything I think ratios of numbers are highly powerful probes of the structure in the form of things just so you know the Fibonacci sequence right that could be in there if you have a Fibonacci head I think it's a little overplayed Fibonacci's a little overplayed especially once you get a nose job you can find it in nature and say oh isn't this beautiful but you've overlooked all the places where it doesn't show up in nature so many times it it doesn't appear in more places than it does appear right but in a lot of living things you're living since before he cones yeah pineapples there's a lot of sunflower seeds it's very or sunflower flowers yeah yeah really weird isn't it yeah I mean it's just this random not random but this well if the next thing you do depends on the previous two things you did you get the Fibonacci series I mean that's often the case with say you know think of things in your life you do where the third thing you do depends on you having done the previous two things in this exactly the same way that's not everything in your life but you can surely find some things that do that mmm I think it was Camden New Jersey where they had such a crime that's such that was so random no it's not yeah Camden New Jersey had such a crisis of funding that I think there was a brief period of time at least I don't know if it's changed where they literally didn't have for us and one of their solutions was to put surveillance cameras everywhere and the idea was to sort of try to capture all the [ __ ] that was going down here it is this is surveillance city of Camden New Jersey okay here's a guy crime and the intrusive tools they're using in hopes of stopping it right yeah this was I mean I don't remember this is after this happening it's let me take away your freedoms for your own safety hmm yeah this is this is a well known you know Benjamin Franklin wrote about it was his famous Benjamin Franklin quote about security and freedom yeah who abandons freedom security is getting neither or something yeah yeah so so this is not it yeah they that can give up Essential Liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety those who sacrifice Liberty for safety for security deserve neither he who would trade Liberty for some temporary security deserves neither Liberty that he's got all combination all permutations on that one this is so I mean I don't wanna leave any room for misquoting he understood that so your your security you give up some security for privacy I think yes and I don't know it's a well-known place where that should be drawn and you can actually get an entire generation born into a state where they think that's normal we all now think it's normal you have to show ID to walk into an office building oh my gosh what would that look like during the Cold War you have to show you in the United States you have to show your papers just to walk into a building well they're also changing oh my gosh system where if you don't want to travel with a passport you're gonna have to have a new 40 been through then a federal driver's license federally endorsed driver's license I just went through that last week yeah right so when did you go into play when is that going ah um it's for everybody like next year or something it's very soon if you want to travel in a particular way if you don't drive and then it doesn't matter fly right we want to fly correct correct and I carry my passport wherever I go so it's not really a problem for me but so carry your passport everywhere you go if you want to just jet out of the country how is your brain wired would escape no if I had four passports then you'd say do I want to leave the country yeah whoever that anybody in a you know espionage movie there's somebody who has five passports in a safes and with with wads of cash of every currency so so I think I worry that we're sliding towards a state of total monitoring on the premise that we're all better off for it right and it's like the frog in the heated water we don't feel it day by day but it's happening we all agree that we can be hand patted down just to get on an airplane we've all accepted that because of a handful of people a handful look at historically handful historically handful not even a handful in this moment just historically and fill the people we all say yes take my luggage x-ray my luggage take away my liquids Pat me down and I'm okay with that well that's a transition and I'm okay with security cameras in the street it was okay in banks we understood that but now when I exit the bank and I'm in the street when I'm walking and walking in the park so I don't know I don't know the future of that I really don't know I saw the movie 1984 recently not a very good movie the book is better than the movie and I hate to be the one of the people who say that but I was reminded how you can create an entire state where everyone is kept in line because somebody is telling you we are fighting this battle out on the front lines I'd forgotten this from the book they're fighting a war on the front lines you never see the war you never hear about the war you know anything about the war other than it exists and you have to do things a certain way in country so that your country can protect itself from these evil people that want to take over and destroy your way of life so everybody's under control from Big Brother well what they didn't anticipate though was these social media companies would be the guards or the gatekeepers of your privacy because that's what's interesting is it could you voluntarily give them all your information that's not government's rights it's Twitter and Facebook Google and you know all the stuff that we use on a daily basis that is access to everything that you do it's almost inconceivable to someone outside of this generation that there would be a company that would provide a service and through that service you would give up all notions of privacy all privacy yeah because literally you have a microphone that's listening everywhere you go you have a bug right there you can around with you I mean I don't remember yeah you've been you've been pin bucked right yeah really is you've been weakened with a lapel you will get ads for things you talked about I mean that has been proven hmm so what is that what is these passive listening devices they're only picking up key words it's no big deal it's just key word it's the frog in the water that's I'm telling you yeah so I don't know what's gonna go like I said I'm a little old folk old fogey about that but I think we'll resolve it do you think they should be regulation generally if you have something good and it gets abused you regulated that's the whole point of rape that's we're here alive today because of regulation because there are nefarious people who in control of powerful forces operating on society would gain at the expense of everyone else and would not be good for the progress of civilization so you regulate okay airlines are regulated so that you don't die all right what we have the safest record now ever for commercial airlines American carriers the safest ever look at look at not only how many people have not died relative to when we grew up we grew up through at least one or two planes crashed each year you'd lose between 1 and 300 people every year that was like the baseline number that number is near zero now and way more planes are taking off and landing that in anytime when we were kids so it's a double it's a double Progress point for not only the Transportation Safety Administration but engineering technology and everything we care about we want to fly so you regulate you make sure these are inspected this often you don't the pilots don't fly more than this many hours you this gets oiled this gets replaced it's one of the triumphs of modern engineering aerodynamics aerospace engineering as a branch of what we do as civilization is one of the greatest achievements there ever was agreed Jamie did you find that stealth stuff I found there are cars that have this wouldn't be a car this would be a laboratory the laboratory find anything okay oh look at a laboratory stealth light Oh something try that like cloaks that people wear that sort of seems like video yeah but in Harry Potter the the was the cloak that they wear the invisibility cloak that would be this principle yeah if it existed it with that there's a bunch of videos of that but it seems like they're just using After Effects like Adobe or something like that to death [ __ ] with the video rather than create an actual product that's because there was a woman in an office that had a blanket and she held up the blanket and you could only see the whole office you wouldn't see the blanket at all you'd see what's behind her she lowered the blanket you could see her and then from the blanket down so why isn't that just a green screen of the yeah that's what it was I think she was holding up a green blanket no no no no sorry sorry no no no there's nothing to do with that okay that's that's the map of dark matter in the universe a three-dimensional map I've tried to give that a shot no we don't know what it is so don't worry about if you don't understand yeah but it's too goddamn confusing for math no it's not confusing at all it's not it's something out there that has 85% of the gravity of the universe and we don't know what the hell it is using it's not confusing it's it's if you don't know what a fuse it is it's confusing by nature okay III have more nuanced definition of confusing confusing is I am confused I don't know how to think dark matter is I don't even know what to think I need something in my head to be confused right dark matter has there's no we don't know what the hell do you anticipate a solution to that or some server sure I want my eyes it in Hawaii I hope damn it might have been yeah now let's go might have been yeah listen folks it's not the gdt there'll be the goddamn it's the TMT 30 meter telescope so yeah solutions to we you don't know part of the what it is to explore is not knowing what it is that you will find and all these telescopes the launched ones as well as the ground-based ones we have enough foresight we're mature enough as a field to know that even though it's designed to look for certain things that were part of the program that you set up for it you want to have a serendipity mode for it you want to be able to say let's point it in some random direction and see what shows up without that you could miss something in plain sight if you're only looking for one thing that you think is there extrapolated from what you knew before and the way I think of it you know there's the old saying as the area of our knowledge grows so too does the perimeter of our ignorant mmm so as that area grows there more places to look over the fence and stare into the abyss of ignorance that awaits you so dark matter is sitting on the other side of the fence that's the way I've heard describes the bonfire of our knowledge grows brighter the area of our ignorant is illuminated okay I have to think about that yeah that's similar to what I said I'm more theater yeah if the bonfire is your knowledge that's lighting the way as it grows bigger you go see more stuff you've never you've never noticed before it's the same principle that's a giant one though man 85 person it's 85 percent of gravity so yeah it's Andy add that to the dark energy we don't know that is either dark matter dark energy comprise 95% of everything that's driving the universe so everything we know and love the chemistry the physics the biology life planets stars is 5% of the universe now so many people theologians and folks say well maybe God is in the other 95% maybe ok yeah made God's dark matter would that be crazy well people say that surprised yeah but I don't know why dark red would care about whether yeah which religion you're right yeah all the religions got their thing wearing yo don't you know I'm God I'm dark matter yeah we by the way just in in letters from an astrophysics physicist which isn't out yet but again I don't know how the hell you got the book but it's there there's an entire chapter where I am conversing with people who were strongly religious there's a conversation I have in there with a Orthodox Jewish person a Muslim multiple fundamentalist Christians and we're talking about the age of the earth and why and why do we think one way or another and so that's there's a lot of intimate stuff in there that I generally don't go public with but I would did it one-on-one with those who had written to me about these challenges they were facing in life and they wanted to know what a national physicist had to say about it what's the youngest version of how old a religious person thinks to the earth is what's the how was the 6,000 years see that's a question yes yet Christian well oh of all and not all Christians by the way no no of all religions I don't know the age College is like a month old idea I don't know enough about how old all the religions think the universe is the youngest you're gonna get the youngest University owner to get from a devout Christian in 6,000 years the oldest is around 10,000 and but it's far and away from billions Mormons are a unique one because they think you get your own planet when you die yeah and what's what's funny horn on that what I want my own planet nobody told me that it's odd how one religious group would would comment on how preposterous another religious groups comments are I love that you know I was once I don't if you know this I was once quoted after I think the the Scientology documentary came out on HBO and everybody was talking about at least I think that was it and there was a lot of chat about it for a couple of weeks and one of the news outlets I forgot who called me up and said do I think Scientology should be a religion classified as a religion as an authentic religion and you can ask well why they calling me Wow well because in Scientology they're aliens and if there's space beings that have us to give up this information oh sorry I died so that's how I got brought into this conversation ah because of the sectors of Scientology that involves space beings okay all right so my answer was we live in a country that protects the free expression of faith based systems provided they don't subtract from the rights of others so I will not sit here and judge whether they tans from space exhumed souls from volcanoes at least a third of what I just said is accurate it's from from the Scientology or whether a man born of a woman is this son of God who died and rose from the dead I'm not going to compare those and judge whether one of them is more authentic than another when they're both founded on belief systems and so in this country belief systems are protected and we've all bought into that and so you know what the headline was Tyson defense that was the clickbait of my comments get clicks you got a distort there there are some rational people who in the comment thread said that's not what he said of course yeah but isn't it more interesting when they do do that and then inside the actual article itself they give your full quote so people can see the deception the real confusing thing is when they take a chunk of your quote so you don't I just go to jail for that by the what so that's interesting so for me I I'm an observer of that not a complainer about it so is that how they're doing it okay so maybe I can shake this phrase differently to minimize the chance of that happening in the future minimize the chance of you being lied about correct so for me that is a landscape there's some landmines here there are some trap doors here there is something and so for me one who communicates on that landscape that's just information for me to navigate it slightly more nimbly in the front yeah got it interesting gravity this is one thing that will still hook to hook up on gravity yes I'm always hooked up on gravity because as you should be well since we've talked last I've been reading a lot about it and one of the things that confuses me the most is that we don't really understand what gravity is we know its effects we can measure them we know how to measure them we know what that mass is involved well we don't really know what gravity is there's a similar question in the book but they got a little more philosophical than you just did but they both leaned philosophical it's science can describe how gravity works but can they describe why can we so this is the how why yeah duality here and allow me to just answer it from a howwhy point of view and then we can apply it to gravity okay after I say that in science if we can describe how something works and predict its future behavior we claim to understand it and we move on you can ask deeper question about why is there gravity what is the meaning what is the purpose and go ahead but I'm good with what I've done and I can land a spacecraft on Mars inside of a crater in a hole in one using my understanding of gravity so I'm pretty good with it okay so I'm not distracted by the more philosophical side of that why does it work okay Einstein so Newton was deeply puzzled by how you can have something called in which he coined the phrase action at a distance okay he wrote down the equation that worked he walked any question goes around the earth earth goes on the Sun the moons of Jupiter go around Jupiter he accurately described that with his equations of gravity okay he said one day I think we're gonna find some way that they're connecting to each other but I don't know what that is right now but I know my equations work he called it spooky it was spooky to him that's his word spooky action at a distance all right fast forward three hundred years three hundred no fast forward two hundred and fifty two hundred thirty years get to Albert Einstein gravity is the curvature of space and time and you're moving on the curvature of that fabric that's gravity oh my gosh is it even a force then is it even so there's no need to think of it as an action at a distance and in a phrase first uttered by I think was John Archibald wheeler or a student of Einstein and he I learned relativity from John Archibald wheeler fact that's where I met my wife in relativity class at school its space so matter tells space how to curve space tells matter how to move it moves on the curvature of space you don't need an action at a distance there is no action it can't do anything else but do that it's like you have a funnel and you take a ball and you roll it on the funnel the ball can only do what that funnel tells it to do and it'll Cirque if you give it a sideways motion it'll start spinning around there's no magic hand coming in there it is following the curvature of its space-time continuum this construct that you provided for it so now I can describe what gravity is doing I even have a mechanism for it are you gonna still ask me why is there gravity is that answered not fulfilling enough to you even in the Y Department because well why would a particle curved space you can just keep doing that that's fine but is there a point really where you'll be satisfied with the answer oh that answers my why I can say well why did this half liter of water drop off the edge here well it's no longer the forces are imbalanced and it's a no but why did it fall well there's nothing holding you know why did there's a point where it's not especially productive to continue to think about the world that way because what I'm claiming is answers to the how when you understand the how enough our tantamount to having answered the why question that's all that's what I'm telling them out in terms of your ability to measure it and accurately use it correct so we can say okay but isn't it you've got a ball yes we can say well why did you go bald well okay the hair follicles at a when you start in your late 20s and early go bald when you start losing your hair probably late twenties early thirties yeah yeah that's that's common if you have your hair when you're thirty you'll probably have it for the rest of your life that's the how that goes you start losing it up right going up to your thirty so you can say well the hair follicle begins does not producing the keratin or whatever we get the explanation then you say well why does the hair follicle stop doing that then you say oh well because the DNA has a pre coded about the hair kind of thing well why does the DNA have the hair well because so whereas we know far more about how and why people go bald than we do about what gravity really is correct I'm telling you gravity really is the curvature of space and time that gets us the Big Bang and everything we've ever known and based in time but it's also based on mass right it's based on the amount of any concentration of matter and energy and or energy will curve the fabric of space and time and the more the movement of matter on that fabric of space and time we call gravity and I'm good with that okay but you seem a little oddly defensive about something that's scientific no I have to say I'm good with this but you you are cuz you kind of defending it no you can say well if Y does matter you need to know why uh-huh why they say no I'm saying why does matter and energy curve the fabric of space and time you can ask that okay why and I don't have an answer if I can say well that's all I'm asking well no what about to what I'm telling you is okay you don't need to watch you to the point all right we had to walk to that point where you're why got unanswered I understand that but but before we got to that point I answered otherwise that I'm not disputing that good good so what I'm telling you is that I can answer your why question most of the time but then you'll come back to a point where there's a point where there's the Y doesn't have the answer so you say why did if falling say there's a force of gravity operating on it why did it fall that way because of the curvature of space and time I'm answering your wise then why does matter an energy curve space and time okay that's a frontier we're still working on that but that's all I'm asking that's good that's one you are a man of science so you are a person that should probably embrace wise accept the many people who ask why questions they really want to no purpose I'm not asking purpose good well then that distinguishes you from many other people who ask why questions oh okay why did you bang the table I was angry there's a purpose behind it okay so so yeah if your Y is just a curiosity of what's going on that's one thing if you are inquiring about purpose then its theological okay because when a theological then religions give purpose to lot merely I'm not doing that right but uh I just think it's amazing that something that's such a massive part of life on this planet that we stayed glued to the ground because of gravity can you pull up my Instagram account that I only posts you have an Instagram account now I had a fake one for a while yeah I took it over mine actually I know that guy I took it over he gave it to you oh dude the guy who had it yeah no no no no actually I sorry yes Instagram said I but people think this is a real account and it's not can I have it back and if it's an account that's an impostor and followers don't know it it's illegal right so so there's there's one that says fan of neil tyson yeah and that's a different one okay so I only post arthouse photos okay that I've taken most of which I've taken so just scroll down and look for Muscle Beach there it is click on that okay so here's my cat go to my caption go fullscreen on that remember my cab okay for most of our life on earth we either resist or succumb to the force of gravity at Muscle Beach gravity loses every time room I was proud of the caption you know you call me out on that caption that's nonsense gravity never loses gravity doesn't even have like little tiny losses there's a war for those just listening to this so I was at I was in Venice California and the Sun was setting behind some guy who was doing who was doing hand pressed hand presses suspended up on this chin up bar right and it was really so it was cool he was silhouetted there's a palm tree there's the beach he's there gravity's gonna beat that [ __ ] let me tell you eventually but while he is it while he's there he's conquering gravity are you getting too old you haven't come to gravity lately no I work out all the time I'm not buying it yeah concrete [ __ ] he's pulling rank now so I work out and you don't cuz I see your middle-aged man belly well what I've talked to other astrophysicists and science what way let me yet are these conversations supposed to have a like a theme or a purpose or is it just you sit in just whatever comes your head you send my where are you and me yeah well clearly this episode is about you can't say that I don't ever do you don't do that okay fine that's just episode number two my success no hablo commitment ever have a thread think about all the different people of course of course it's like impossible of calling fighters and scientists and the scholars and crackpots bunch of different people coming through here man I can't have any agenda all right I mean that's probably the only reason why this thing is successful as it is yeah but that's a weird one for people that this one thing that is so powerful what what is Oh gravity that's a weird one for people yeah I mean it seems like you're frustrated by all the various questions no like no you seem a little little defensive there because I follow that I thought you were taking your why to ultimately mean purpose if it's just why I'm claiming that many responses to how are also responses to a why mm-hmm that that's that's the point I'm making and I don't like splitting definitions will ultimately understand gravity I think we do that's why we can land things Mars I think we do which is why your cell phone gets time from GPS satellites that is pre corrected for Einstein's general theory of relativity because they're in a different gravitational field than you in orbit than you are on Earth's surface we got this we got Stein his triumphing we're running short on time here so I set you something that I wanted to ask you what's that you I did I did it's about a black hole that landed in a mysterious place in our understandings yes yeah yeah so let me let me just give that I'll give the the the sort of Reader's Digest version of this okay okay there are black holes that are there black holes that are formed at the consequence of the death of stars okay okay and we think we understand the formation of stars well enough to say well star is born with this much mass and it'll lose certain amount of mass over its life all stars lose mass because there's so much pressure and so much energy coming out it carries particles with it so they they lose mass the Sun is losing mass as we speak it's called the solar wind so everybody loses mass out there the question is at what rate are you losing mass is it a lot compared to your total mass is it small so very high mass stars are not especially stable objects they remain stars for a hundred thousand at most a million years and they'll explode and become a supernova if you're more massive than that they will not explode because the gravity is so strong that it cannot explode against the strength of the gravity and it collapses into a black hole so we expect black holes to have slightly less mass somewhat less mass then the most massive stars that we know how to make so if you have a hundred times the mass of the Sun star it'll lose half of its mass over its life and you have a a black hole that 30 times the mass of the Sun or 50 times the mass isn't fine put a pin in that in the Centers of galaxies there are supermassive black holes hundreds of thousands millions times the mass of the Sun and we call their supermassive and their black holes we call them supermassive black holes because that's how we roll as astrophysicists all right well could you have black holes somewhere in the middle of these two extremes we do not know a phenomenon that will give you a black hole that's in beat that will birth a black hole that's in between these two these two categories you can make a black hole that eats its way there fine but we don't know how to make one and we think we colleagues who have done this think they've discovered a black hole that is sitting in this sort of netherworld where there's no evidence that it ate to become that massive and we don't know how to explain it by the formation and death of stars and is nowhere near the supermassive black hole in the center of the galaxy so it is the frontier of research at this moment so it's just a newly discovered type of black hole it's in a MASH regime that this physically impossible you know headlines we're eating the headline now black hole shock they show me the the where disappears express is this a British I think they're British anyhow it's a news digest for science so black hole shock theories swirl around the discovery of a physically impossible black hole so scientists don't use the word impossible unless it's violating a known law of physics so I bet that was a title and I don't have a product I don't mind a little bit of sensationalism there you can say it is a black hole that comes from and if it comes from an object it is an object we know nothing about and have yet to discover well we're not going to say it's an impossible on Jeff mm-hmm every time we point a telescope to the universe we find something that we never predicted or understood and it adds to the knowledge base already have whenever they do discover things and then that becomes what we know and understand like the supermassive black holes at the center of every galaxy that was a fairly recent discovery in terms it was a sized because we saw the Centers of galaxies behaving really weirdly things stars were moving faster than they should have given how much gravity was tugging on them and we said dude something's got to be there and it's got to be really small because we're tracking star is really close to the middle well if it was made of ordinary matter how big would have to have to be really really big so this has to be really really small in order for this to happen the only thing we know that could fill that small volume and have that much gravity is a black hole so it's suspected for a long time it was confirmed that as a common thing by the Hubble telescope and first photographed by this recent result in the galaxy m87 Messier 87 is what it's that's the name of the galaxy and you can determine how big the black hole is based on the size of the galaxy we can determine the mass of the black hole by how fast stars are moving at the distance they are from it so in other words so so where Earth orbiting the Sun and we have a certain speed we're going about forgot how does it but 18 miles per second I think that's the number 30 kilometers a second that's our speed around that's a speed around the Sun that's pretty fast okay if the Sun had more mass instantly that speed is not enough to maintain our orbit and we'll start spiraling in towards it if the Sun had less mass that speed is too high to be in this orbit it'll take it to up sorry it's too fast to maintain this horbet it'll climb us out to a higher orbit slow us down and we'll be in a higher orbit with a slower speed so in other words for any object at any distance there's only one speed you can maintain and have a stable orbit around it so when we see stars orbiting something in the center of the galaxy it is a straight forward Astro 1:02 equation to calculate how much mass the thing is orbiting and you get the mass and you can't see it it's it's a black hole and that ladies and gentlemen is the end of the podcast ha ha ha this block will be available when Sir comes out in in October first week of October I'm very proud of this book it's my most heartfelt thing that I've ever done well when it comes out I will take a photograph and put it up on the Instagram and the Twitter yeah and it's it's a it also has letters from people in prison a person who had just learned that they were had terminal cancer I mean there's a lot of people reaching out responding to letters yes it's me responding and they're letters I can't fit all of their letters some are very long tones but most of their letters and then all of my correspondence is in there so it's it's my most heartfelt contribution to this universe and Startalk is still upon we're still going still going Startalk would pump it up in 50 episodes and a television show yes so we can see if we're gonna have a new season we don't know yet that's to be announced but we're going to it's always a podcast and I we got a YouTube channel Startalk YouTube channel and we're thinking of branching out into other kinds of educational product that's still fun and comedic and the like and I love your support for this because you're you're also a comedian so you know the value and I love comedians that have their fundamental part of how we deliver science to the public on Startalk so thanks for for that plug my applies are my friend dude thank you always good bye everybody [Applause] [Music] [Music]

Channel: PowerfulJRE

Views: 8,398,774

Rating: 4.5041375 out of 5

Keywords: Joe Rogan Experience, JRE, Joe, Rogan, podcast, MMA, comedy, stand, up, funny, Freak, Party, JRE #1347, Joe Rogan, Neil deGrasse Tyson, 1347

Id: 0pmviUS1Zac

Length: 140min 43sec (8443 seconds)

Published: Thu Sep 05 2019

Reddit Comments

[u/OursIsTheRepost]

Submission statement: Neil deGrasse Tyson is an astrophysicist, cosmologist, author, and science communicator. I always enjoy when he’s on JRE, hope y’all will too

[u/CyborgMystic]

Am I the only one who finds Neil incredibly annoying? I hate to be that person, but holy shit--he never lets Rogan even ask a question, he just pedantically jumps from every "mind blowing" fact he knows to the next. I didn't think mansplaining was real until I listened to this. Bloody hell, exhausting...

[u/kuntnn]

I love listening to anything related to physics/cosmology but Neil is really painful to listen to, especially in this podcast. He keep flexing/trying to exude dominance in this conversation when there is no need

[u/KidsGotAPieceOnHim]

Neil is so smudge

[u/Avenger_]

When is season 2 of cosmos coming out???!!!??

[u/[deleted]]

[removed]

[u/newaccountkonakona]

Neil on that addy

[u/InstupituousJay]

He’s on again? Nice!