James O'Brien's Best LBC Moments 2019 | Best of 2019

[Music] um why is it all gone so wrong hello is that mr. O'Brian on the line loud and clear Jacob wow what a pleasure to be joining your program I'm normally with mr. Ferrari who's I think it slightly sounder but it's nice to have a chance to come out and talk to you better late than never so why is it all gone so wrong but why is what gone wrong brexit Jacob well brakes it hasn't yet happened so why are you saying it's gone wrong before it's happened oh this is going to be fun so how have we ended up where we are now with you you'll be voting against your own government that's delivering a withdrawal from the European Union that you're keen to withdraw from can you just talk us through why well first of all it's not my government's her majesty's government so let let's try and get things accurate the deal is a bad deal the government has negotiated poorly and is spending 39 billion pounds of taxpayers money or wishes to without getting anything in return it's not delivering the leave what should they have done differently what should they have done differently they're in a calm they should not have accepted the sequencing that the European Union asked for in the first place so we're going back just over two years now well you asked what should not everybody listening is as informed as you are so so things started going on over two years ago Oh at the beginning of the negotiation the very beginning of strategy issues was wrong and David Davis was overruled by the Prime Minister in this he was very keen not to agree they're sequencing and why would the EU have changed their position after we refused to accept it well because it's a negotiation in a negotiation both sides have to agree in the end and they will they have and you're you're complaining well because it's an agreement that doesn't deliver on brexit it's a negotiation and both sides have to agree in the end and they have to write but they've agreed something that is not going to be accepted in Parliament so I'm asking you why you think they would have agreed to what you would have accepted two and a half years ago well because the EU wants 239 billion and once we'd agreed to give that to them there's very little reason for them to make a leave with no fusion if we leave with No Deal they don't get the 39 that's absolutely right so we shouldn't worry about leaving with no deal right so can I ask again what why you think things have gone so wrong we'll start with the sequencing what happened that went wrong after that I think the negotiating strategy has been poor and I think we've got basically a remain as brexit that we've got a brexit that seeks to shadow membership of the European Bex it hasn't happened yet as you reminded me a moment ago yes that's what let's let's re-examine your own words talking about withdrawal agreement yes it is a remain as brexit what does that mean it means that it's shadowing membership of the European Union it's half in half out that it would Tyus into the common external tariff it would tie us in that via Northern Ireland to the EU rulebook in vast swathe of activity and when people warned that the Good Friday Agreement would render that inevitable why do you think they were dismissed because it doesn't the so regulatory alignment isn't in the Good Friday Agreement no it isn't okay it isn't it's not a matter of the Good Friday Agreement the Good Friday Agreement considering those sorts of issues you don't think the Good Friday Agreement insists on regulatory alignment on both sides the Irish border no it doesn't you're confusing two things if I miss a say are you of course you may say so but I think we're getting all a little bit officials will carry on so how would you have conducted negotiations in a more fruitful fashion Jacob Riis Morgan well the EU about a year ago offered a Canada style free trade deal and I think that would be worth paying thirty nine billion pounds for and what would the difference be between that and what we're getting oh well the difference would be that we would not have the backstop we would not have the superiority of EU law and we would not be tied in to potentially and why would Canada style deal do away with the need for the backstop because the issue around the backstop is essentially a phantom one the EU the you can see why would the Canada deal as specified by the European Union why would that have done away with the need for the backstop because if you'd had a comprehensive free trade agreement with no tariffs between the two sides what would you've been trying to stop on the border stuff coming in that doesn't have regulatory alignment with the European Union there's no regulatory alignment in the how can you have trading standards without checking what's been traded you don't need to check what's being traded at the border so what do you mean by the phrase trading standards then well we have trading standards all the time how do we check those standards without checking what's being traded but the issue of the hard border is checking out the border not having no checks at all anywhere so in the event of a Canada style trade deal why would there be no need for the backstop Jacob the backstop has always been a failure of British Necaise stop at all because nobody's going to implement not what I asked though is it why would the Canada traded have done away with the need for the backstop because there's no need for a backstop anyway oh I see so we don't need it now all right that's my view yes it's not unfortunately governments you know or unions or the Irish governments or the architects of the Good Friday Agreement or every single politician involved in drawing it up so what are they see what are they missing that you can see mr. Reese you have just said is simply not accurate Lord Trimble David Trimble one of the architects of the Good Friday Agreement won the Nobel Prize for it DEP were opposed to the Good Friday Agreement nor Trimble was not a member of the DUP he was the leader of the Ulster Unionists and now sits as a conservative peer in the House of Lords and why does he why does he think there's no need for a backstop well you should invite him on to explain but you're telling me he's your recital so you tell me he said this publicly and has supported a Canada style free trade deal without a backstop so explain his reasoning to me if you want to explain your own well I tried to explain my own but you then went off on a wild goose chase about something wrong I apologize the explanation is very straightforward that nobody is planning to introduce a hard border and therefore the backstop is only there to prevent a hard border which neither the EU nor the British are going to implement so what happens next what happens next I imagine the Prime Minister will go back to the EU and say this deal will not work and we need to try something else do you think they will do well I think they're quite keen to get our thirty-nine billion pounds and I think it would be sensible for the government to get back to the offer the EU made as I said nearly a year ago on comprehensive free trade agreement and if that doesn't happen that doesn't happen we leave without a deal we go to WTO terms what does WTO terms mean in the context of normal consumers buying food in the shops the price of food should come down because we can reduce tariffs on food which are very high because of the e use common external tariff that no exam - you know there's absolutely nobody informed who thinks that following what WTO guidelines would reduce the price of food in this country or I guess your fellow leave campaign and Michael Gove is there's mistaken and wrong or or perhaps dishonest there are lots of people who think that it would be in the government's hands that the government sets a schedule of tariffs at the WTO it currently follows the government doesn't set a schedule of tariffs at the WTO the government asks the WTO and then every single country that Samantha gets gets a vote on whether or not we're allowed to follow that schedule and that's simply not correct simply is correct no it's not countries go to the WTO and set their schedule of tariffs and the WTO decides whether or not they can have it no that's what tariff vision the government setting that's not correct that the tariffs then have to be equal amongst all countries so you have to treat all countries European Union country that's right right that's absolutely right unless you have a specific trade agreement that overrides the ones we've got you're absolutely right we do have some deals at the WTO some which have already agreed to be rolled over once we've left and others has already I think eight objects ins that have been launched with the plan that we've that we've courses together I tell you what I want but you're saying that lodging objections does not stop your tariffs taking place and what we could do is we could remove the tariffs which go up to 80 percent on things like beef so we could have cheaper food so Oh Michael Gove got wrong then when he says that the beef products will go up by 40% because I well that I'm fascinated by the in the the disputes between prominent leave campaigners that have now transpose so in your view because you study these things very closely what is Michael Gove the environment secretary missing and the National Farmers Union which have described what you're calling for is a catastrophe do them the favor of explaining what it is you can see what they can't what Michael gave is assuming in that context is that we apply the common external tariff of the European Union to goods coming into this country when we've left the European Union and will be under our own control the wiser thing is not that he's talking about a 40% higher tariff than we currently have so what is it you can see that he can't you're not listening I am listen to take oh just not falling for it no if we what he is assuming as we apply the common external tariff once we've left the European Union why haven't you explained his hold on do just wait a moment of course because that would be too EU product as well as non EU products but the alternative instead of applying the context and tariffs to all products is to lower the tariff to all countries which lessens the price of food it's really getting our beef from well be getting our be from we can get it from all around the world we can get very good beef from Australia and what regulatory standards or trading standards will we be operating our Australian beef is regulated extremely high so we'll be signing up to the Australian regulatory body well we would recognise that beef produced in Australia is very good quality I don't see any problem with that so we'll be signing up to Australian health and safety legislation no all countries who will be checking the quality of the beef that you're buying from the other side of the world well I'd be quite happy to buy beef that is meets australian standards so i would be signing up there aren't we surrendering sovereignty by a meeting australian standards Jacob no I don't think that's right so why are we surrendering sovereignty by meeting EU standards the issue there is meeting EU standards for our own production we're not saying yes I know we're not saying that we would apply Australian standards to domestic production oh I see what some of the important stuff from Australia that different standards from the stuff that we're growing here or so why not are you saying Australian beef is dangerous I don't have a strong view about Australian beef but on English camp so the question again is we'll have two separate regulatory standards of a beef where we're depending on where it came from so who will be checking there who will be checking that Australian beef coming here from Australia meets Australian standards Jacob inspection of food are already under the EU from New Zealand for example is done talking about New Zealand now I'm asking about the Australian beef you're so keen to buy new then be challenged simply explaining to you you're simply explaining to me how Australian beef coming into this country when I checked I'm spy and we're telling you I'm telling you how it's already done with New Zealand it's checked in New Zealand by New Zealand inspectors because the standards in New Zealand are very high the same applies to Australia Australian standards are very high and these these are in terms of a trade agreement you don't need to have a trade agreement you can do it unilaterally right do we do that with New Zealand you know New Zealand is done under the European Union that has right so that's my comparison then so New Zealand has a trade agreement with the European Union does it there's an example Australian food because they're not the same as Australia and I'm asking you about Australian beef well we will check it what I'm saying to you is very straightforward of course is why you're using New Zealand to make a point about Australia no I'm just talking generally about terms of something about the Australian beef that you're using as an explanation of your position what you're trying to do is the cheap barristers trick of badgering the witness and not and your word in edgeways goes back to the Australian beef back to the Australian beef Australia has very high standards beef coming from Australia will be inspected in the normal way as it is in Australia we can as a sovereign decision say that we think beef from Australia is very good quality and we will therefore accept it into our country and who will check it it will have been checked in Australia before it's let left who will check it here we will say we think that's good enough as our own decision right and it's very high quality beef not that I've come on LBC to give an advert for Australian beef but it is very good beef okay so we'll be going our beef from Australia and it will meet Australian regulatory standards and well we might carry on getting beef from the Republic of Ireland that means EU standards it will still be perfectly safe beef to eat we can trade with countries across the world we already do just use New Zealand yourself as an example of what we'll do so what will we be able to do afterwards that we can't do now well currently we have very high tariffs on Australian beef so we'd be able to reduce those so the cost of food in this country would be cheaper which is where I started from yes and the meat products that the Australian industry have suggested for export to the UK are hormone treated and you know that whereas we don't have hormone treated be for sale in this country if it is labeled people can decide for themselves I don't think you ought what does it mean what does it mean me I've been to Australia needand Australian beef quite how I'm sure you have why why does the European Union regulation outlaw hormone treated B because it's protectionist and it wants us to play harp so it's got nothing to do with hormones no no it's about the EU is all protection is right so we can buy whole of the EU as a protectionist racket this inefficient European producers at the expense okay so we'll be fine hormone treated beef from Australia and we won't be checking it at our port will to make sure that it's okay because Australia would have told us that it's okay I trust Australian standards just as much as I trust Irish standards yes but ayran don't give hormones to their beef cattle well I I'm not worried about that I think that you can ask what your qualifications are in the context of humans can treat you consuming hormone treated beef whether it's perfectly safe in Australia and the Australians don't have any ill effects from this right you've researched this have you taxi that seems quite a good enough answer no it does research on what hormone treated beef is it believed to do to human beings it's quite capacious that's why they can sell it more cheap because it makes the stuff grow in a normal healthy fashion I think you're just running along with the hobbyhorse age I think you're right Jacob um let's try again if we may because it's taken me a very long time to get you on the program and invited me I have we've had an invitation in about your people haven't passed advanced we're going down another came on with you last during the brexit debate Monica I know I was being scrupulously impartial so now I'm on LBC every fortnight with mr. Ferrari I'm a regular appearance on on your station and there's the first time I've been asked to come on with you've rages no that's not true but look let's chalk it up as perhaps a message not being passed along to you so when the when the vote is lost tonight by the Prime Minister and we go back to Brussels and ask them to do what they've said in very clear terms they're not prepared to do what happens then well there's then a choice for the European Union as much as there is for us whether we leave with a different deal or whether we leave without one because that's what the law provides for sorry say that again the European Union get to decide what happens to us no there's no choice for both of us so it's not what you said no I said there's a choice for both of us down either we have a new deal which both sides are then willing to accept or will you so that's the option now the European Union if they're telling the truth when they say that we're not going to renegotiate anything we leave without a deal but this is a negotiation so when people say this is our bottom line it very rarely is but time will tell how much time have we got we've got what is it 73 days yes and so the Ender so you think in the next seventy three days the European Union are going to change the negotiating position that has been more or less constant for the last 12 months in reality I think it's more likely that we leave without an agreement and the ETA term so that goes back to our discussing before it does so you're advocating for no deal that's all you believe is the most likely outcome its what would what one believes is most like in what one is advocating for not necessarily the same thing what is why I vacating I would be in favor of a deal but if that proves impossible there was nothing to be fearful about leaving on WTO terms okay and all the people that say there's a lot to be fearful of like the National Farmers Union and the governor of the Bank of England and the CBI you you can see what they can't see which is well the CBI has got everything wrong in its history it ones destroying the euro wanted to join the exchange rate and I think that's what you just call the red herring or something isn't it so the question is what can you they can't see what I would say is that you should judge people by their previous track record yeah why haven't you taken down that tweet from the Sun about what Terrace really means cause the Sun withdrew it and it's still on your Twitter account so I'm judging you by your trial right judge away the governor of the Bank of England said we just don't call resection thank you so much for tchen Utley or not part of judiciary the governor of the Bank of England said we would have a technical recession purely on a vote to leave the question is what can you see that they can't see and we know that the governor I mean this is so disingenuous the governor of the Bank of England dedicated himself on the morning after the votes are making his own predictions not come true but you know this you just know that if you say it in a mobile and persuasive fashion people will continue to believe you despite the fact that you've led them to the precipice of a No Deal brexit which even you know deep down will be disastrous unless you can answer this question what is it you can see that they can't you're you're trying to get up to the hysterical diatribe I think so right we can postpone the adverse what can you see but all of the people who warned against coming out with no deal can't say I can see what they've got wrong before and what I'm not asking about the past I'm asking about the future what can you say they can't see the past is a very useful guide to the future because you can see why people are making the judgments the CBI protects incumbent interests and therefore it always goes for things that are not the consumer interest but the producer interest yes if the government Bank of England is a deep lipid list sized figure who has been anti brexit from the moment it was proposed what can I see I can see the opportunities of cheaper food clothing and footwear helping most of all girl income so lately tariffs we can absolutely nobody agrees citing it's exciting it's a great opportunity it is a shackle to the failed economic model of the European Union which has the euro and high unemployment even Germany going into recession it is a wonderful opportunity for our nation you should rejoice and be proud of hoping to have reasons for rejoicing at the end of this conversation so I'll ask you one final time the economic modelling that you rely upon has been discredited so badly that even the Sun withdrew it why do you persist that's not true advice I take is from economists for free trade and Patrick Minford who has the best track record mean almost any forecaster you can find in this country and that cutting tariff does cut prices Patrick Minford let me get right that now Patrick Minford has the best reputation for economic [ __ ] off you got the Exchange Rate Mechanism ride got the Euro right his role in this in this field golden brown got zero right so Jacob Riis MOG is the gentleman that said for brexit to succeed agriculture and industry will be decimated in this country decimated but he said that and he's the manual citing that actually it will be an opportunity for us no no no we need to be clear he's the manual siting and those are his words you're taking one very selective quotation from him he's actually saying it was a real economic it did heal did he not say and will get fast did he not say the manufacturing industry and agriculture would be more or less destroyed you've got but what he said in the full context of the economic growth that we will did he or did he not say that agriculture and industry would be destroyed I think you heard the answer I've just given your well I'd like to get sort of no did he or did he not say it you might like all those things but he or did he not so extraordinarily selective so he did say who has forecast so he said he has forecast correctly his changemakers I'm on the Euro and the opportunities that come from cutting the barriers to trade which have worked in your favorite economic forecaster explain which of the agriculture and industry would be destroyed by your completely exaggerating a comment that he made say what you're saying is inaccurate you're trying to spin something that's mine when he points to it is indeed yes that your reputation absolute but it's a fine one and it makes good listening yes so you're not going to answer the question I've answered many of your questions but here's the last one did Patrick Minford your economic driver choice I've already answered that one I've known you're doing the classic thing of taking some selectively and out of context to make a wrong point okay so did he say it or not I've just answered your question IRA fade what I said a moment ago I'll just remind my listeners did he say or not they were paying more attention than you now I heard you say that he'd been quoted which would suggest he did say it but you haven't answered my question except except illegally so that you cite as an economic to be trusted classically and accurate I've answered your question million motioned away well no I asked a question that admits a yes or no answer and you haven't provided a yes or no answer so we can at least end on a tone of agreement you didn't answer the question in the way that I wanted to and we both know why unpatriotic get out no do we do my input because I'm 70 years old I work for mullahs which was a Dutch based firm and they said if I don't vote for Europe I lose my job well I'll tell you what I voted for Europe not for them to control us you just need to leave with no time just wondering why I lost Michel I lost my job anyway because it closed down in the end yeah one company to another country has to leave and though I'm very sorry that you lost your job but why would that make you vote for a policy that will mean lots lots of other people lose their job oh we have had bad times in this country and we've got good times and I've gone through the law we come out on top because a character he's right we can source stuff from the rest of the world what stuff says well I'll give you an example is boom guy the guy who owes Weatherspoon's yeah when we got we got the vote that we wanted to come out he started sourcing from other places in the world but a lot of his boots and he wrote in his he wrote in his magazine that's where I read it from and he said he sourced good I think it was brand is all sorts of it was it cheaper than what he's getting really open so why wasn't he doing you realize he was doing that before we left because we were part of you but we still are so why could he have done that Houston just pause for a little moment if you would I'm gonna take what you said on trust I'm sure that he did manage to secure absolutely I don't need to I've got you here to represent him but he's more than welcome to ring in just as everybody else is so your your evidence that it's a good idea to leave is that he found cheaper drinks before we let before we left and he passed I passed it on well they were all preparing it because again I'm sorry but like you have to just reflect for a moment on what you've just said yeah we have to leave so that Tim Martin of Weatherspoon's can do something he's already done yeah because he did it Christina I'm gonna label this point and I do apologize because it's not going to be pretty but we're still in the European Union and he did this thing you're telling me we have to leave the European Union to do no example of all the Ramona stop using insulting language okay but here's the thing Christine if this is the example you want to if this is the bridge that you want to build you've just told me that he's already done it yes but he's already done it and we're really soaked so we're in the European Union right yeah and he's already done it yes because he foresaw the future so here's the question Christine what why do we have to leave to do something we could do while we were in it because they're still controlling us they've got no respect for this country I've seen some of the things that have been going on go on tell me I'd love Britain I love what it represents I love what it gets you hated it since 1975 though you've hated it since 1975 so talk me through actually no I'm not going to let that go Christine I think I think you need to take on board what you've said on national radio we have to leave the European Union because Tim Martin has done something while we were still in the European Union he prepares leaving like a lot of how could do it if we weren't allowed to do it because of all those controls we all have to get them on I'm only going by what is magazines you must understand what you read how could he do it if we're not allowed to do it well I don't know I'm not a big business man what if you find a hundred big businessmen between 90 and 95 of them will tell you that we're making a terrible mistake what why have you chosen to believe this businessman while not understanding what was going to go down the band but he's changed a gurney hasn't changed and Mark Carney was the person the morning after the result who enacted economic policy specifically designed to minimize the impact of what he warned us against well which bit don't you agree Mike don't agree with the fact that we are not going to be able to trade with the rest of the world you just heard this morning from the Secretary General of the International Chamber of Commerce for the UK of course we'll still be able to trade but it will cost us a lot more to do so and we won't be able to trade freely come November the 1st with anybody that's not an opinion Christine that's that's a matter of fact but haven't we heard a lot of things like this from a lot of these top people and then they've turned round and said this isn't going to happen and that's not an example tablets Pharmacy first thing we haven't left no but they are able to source from other places but not under free trade agreements well I think I'm sorry I don't keep saying sorry no no all right I don't apologize the want to be a brick yeah I don't what do you think that mean yes what are we going to ask you again back to the original question do you understand now why what you said about Tim Martin was a bit silly no okay let me try again the thing is you will not get me to say that you will not get me to say okay well not silly then but do you understand that he did the things you described wait there's any sort of place while he was still in the European Union well so he could have done that yes but we're still in so anything yes yes and he's done this thing that you described in such in such impressive terms this thing he's done that convinces you it's right that we should leave he did it while we were in right okay how come we source all our metal to China if we're not allowed trade agreements if we're not who said we're not allowed to trade agreements the first we won't have any and I'm not an expert on metal trading but it but I'm pretty sure we don't trade freely with China well there are tariffs in place yes but it hasn't harmed is it problem it hasn't harmed the seven trade agreements with China we don't have any right we don't have any trade agreements with China well I'm sorry I why'd you keep saying sorry Christine because you're getting annoyed at what I'm not remotely annoyed I'm not even upset Christine I'm just I think the word I would use is straight you know I feel incredibly sorry for you I'm sure you are you don't have to feel sorry for me and you don't have to feel sorry for a lot I know I don't have to do I choose to feel sorry for you because you have believed a farrago of lies and you've come on the radio to explain that you voted voted for lots of people to lose their jobs because you lost yours no yes no I don't want people to lose their jobs but that's what's going to happen I'm sure that a lot of people would be proved wrong right but you realize these aren't opinions you want these aren't November the 1st we have no trade agreements at the moment we have agreements with 120 different countries obviously not the European Union has all sorts of trading agreements with countries outside the European Union which is what we will be on November the 1st well what do you think is going to get better control of country but what control of what Christine what's the thing we can't currently control that most frustrates you they said a lot of different laws that have to change I can't remember them now I must be able to name one okay all right now this is this is a crazy one yeah but we all used to have our fish and chips and newspaper and then it was deemed it was wrong right now when we had the fish and chips and newspaper there wasn't loads of people went down with coming up the sets and things like that it had a beautiful smell to it and I can remember that smell now and our lovely it was but they decided and that was new wasn't yes see you that was something they did I like I'm sorry and I listen I listen to the European Parliament and I listen to some of the things they say should be done shouldn't be done I tell you what we put billions into the Europe do you see the schools and the Nash and the and the health service any better 1975 better than 1975 yes you think I would like to see them have decent schools and decent health taking away the money we pay into the European Union is going to make the less money available for the poorer member countries Christine well there made it available now I think I'm afraid they have I mean it's also easy to establish what where this money is spent the European development because they love what we've got over here and I don't blame them for coming and why have you voted to get rid of it all because I just feel as a patriotic person for this country and I'm talking about all the different ISM involves wanting what's best for your country yeah voted to make it worse better then apart from possibly will be allowed to wrap our fish and chips in newspaper again apart from that what are you most looking forward to I'm looking forward to maybe not having so much immigration into the country and I'm looking forward to having it how did you feel when you found out that successive governments had chosen not to impose much stricter immigration regulations that they would be free to do as members of the European Union as for example Belgium does well I'm sorry why are you sorry does this ask that you know you should be because you keep saying well I mean you think well then you're not patriotic I you because you voted to make everything worse no paper no star you won't have such big list on the National Health Service that'll properly what about all the doctors and nurses from the European Union who are already leaving to replace them i i've got i've already got in place plans for that yes i learnt okay can you take care all right okay we know we haven't disagreed I've told you some stuff that's true and you've told me about fish and chips well there's no disagreement years old i I'm not I can't go back into all the different things just one just one would have done I like fish and chips as well I remember when it was wrapped in newspaper I can't pretend I've ever felt it was a grave absence in the heart of British public life but I would remind you because I sent you used the word quite a lot patriotism involves wanting your country to be the best it can be not to impose economic sanctions on itself jump on the train but you're for a Boris Johnson being honest or keeping to his words whatever journalist he always promoted gay rights and as an MP he's probably back through his very own gay punchy civil partnerships and he's always told that line against you know what sits well with Tory so you aren't all yes I mean apart from the time he talked about tank top to bum boys I don't know about that but what in what context do you say that's right no an article he write not what they're gay people with tank top two gay men with tank top two bomb boys sorry what do you mean he wrote an article that was the headline was it no that was in the article so what did he say that going man I'll tank top to pom boys they men are tank top bomb boys yeah I'm pretty sure he did say that okay I'm just finding it for you now bear with though you don't forget that train yeah Labour's ego spectator in 2000 he attacked what he called Labour's appalling agenda encouraging the teaching of homosexuality in schools and all the rest of it in his 2001 but friends voters country many compared compared gay marriage to best eality and wrote that if gay marriage was okay and I was uncertain on the issue then I saw no reason in principle why a union should not be consecrated between three men as well as two men or indeed the three men and a dog 1988 in a Business Insider column about Peter Mandelson's resignation from the Labour government Johnson said the announcement would lead to the blubbing of tank top to bum boys in the Ministry of Sound nightclub and the soft lit Soho drinking clubs frequented by Mandy and his pals okay but he's still that way Carl I'm not at all thank you well believe it make quotes but he is voted all along you began the conversation by referring me back to his career as a journalist and his lifelong support for gay rights just call it quits Claude would get on the track he followed which flies through the bill so I'll call it quits and get on the train wait Jones tank top to bottom boys car well I take your quote fat there from the Guardian thing or what but the bottom line is Jose nobody cares on the track nobody Jones your snowflake loser yeah there we go come to true believer I'm an ardent leader and I've got no qualms about having a second referendum would you rather have that than an election well let me explain why it's just yes or no you'd rather have a referendum than an election good I just wanted to be clear that's the position you were explaining but if there's a general election we all know boy it'll smash it and there'd be breaks it probably No Deal but if there's a second referendum okay had a meeting yesterday after which about 60 odd conservatives were temporarily persuaded that he wouldn't campaign on a No Deal brexit yes but like I say in their general election you get so largest political party and the Conservatives fighting against each other yeah man boys have probably still win by if there's a second miss Wyndham you've got the two most current formidable politicians this country has in boece Johnson and Nigel for large writing on the same time it's Nigel not not the one who failed to win a seat eight times yes but oka straight hit the boat about lead in 2016 no it wasn't in vote leave he was in levy you leaving here the organization that just apologized for those racist anti German posters right okay we've got no is that exactly organization you're talking about are you gonna let me finish yes of course just say yes or no that the organization you're talking about the one that just apologize for the Susy German posters and what nationality of Farage's children no idea what you're tired national after mermaid but you crack on with the most formidable politician in black the most formidable to most formidable politicians in the country lost to a typhoon once on the lady lies to a man dressed as a dolphin once let me ask you a question who's gonna be fun in the sides of the mine in the seconds my friend 'm well I kind of think off the top of my head I might fancy it well which I use as large or large and bollocks that's happened before Jim look it up good luck with that yeah you should look it up so anyway you know what I do now what what are you most looking forward to about leaving my most let me thought about leaving and Ecko not signing up to the European army not even my kids kinetic Spain right just go away and Google that will you put in look what they're saying breaks it up and Steve Baker's no but you haven't gotten information you've got falsehoods yeah what pets though is just go away and Google will British people ever be conscripted into a European army whether we leave or remain go away in Google do you know what the word veto means yeah we lose our feet I want to listen to 86 million 12:22 Oh Jim mate that has been rubbish that stuff you read on Facebook has been pulled apart by everybody and you haven't noticed because you think it's information rather than lies Lisbon treatise done and dusted elijan like the lighting project clear no no nothing like that Jim because what you've just described is written down on your Facebook page describing well okay then on it's come through your letterbox the Lisbon treaty is finished it's done and dusted there is nothing that happens in 2022 as the result of the Lisbon Treaty this isn't an argument this is me saying 2+2 is 4 and you say hang on a minute I think you'll find it six well opinion no no no no no 2+2 equals 6 is not an opinion Jim + 2 dozen eight pulses two plus two equals four right and the Lisbon Treaty is done and dusted mate and nothing kicks in in 2020 - nothing at all and we will have the power of veto over any future European defence force or European cooperation but when you because you trust the man who can't win a by-election against the fellow dressed as a dolphin large deer Oh justifying go ahead yeah yeah cool yeah Oh every single day James cleverly is a minister for brexit and of course the Member of Parliament for Braintree he's also been a I think it's fair to say very outspoken supporter of Boris Johnson and therefore presumably James you're rubbing your hands with glee this morning at the prospect of a Johnson Premiership and a promotion for cleverly well thank you good morning I'm I'm hoping that he does get the the leadership of the party and as you say by extension becomes prime minister because I've worked in London and James are evidence of the fact that he can reach out to people that perhaps don't normally regard themselves as conservative voters I think that's really important and also threes timers Mayor of London demonstrated and I know you had agree with all of this but demonstrated that he can run and affect his liberal might have Center administration and and do so well and that's why I'm sporting why do you think it went so badly at the Foreign Office well there were you know that it was it was it was mixed to get the foreign office but let's remember I think he's probably over to Burma well I think actually getting a global consensus to eject unregistered Russian intelligence agents around the world that was a huge diplomatic to that's a really really important time in the aftermath of the seelye attack the message needed to go out that the international rules based dwell on was being a little bit tiki claiming Boris Johnson was responsible for that what hang on so so when he was foreign secretary either he is or isn't responsible for a foreign policy that was a UK foreign policy when it was really really important time if you're saying I know that the Prime Minister was front and center but as I said let's not do it on that it's his Meriton his remind me what he said what was the intervention do you thing that was most crucial in the in convincing if we are cool if we are going to dwell on this because of course it was only a couple of weeks later that Donald Trump said he regretted chucking out the American diplomat so where was Boris Johnson during that process well I'm not here to descender otherwise the policy that he was criticizing and you've just expressed Boris Johnson's responsibility for that foreign policy in a positive light I suggested that we could move on you didn't want to so how come Boris Johnson failed to convince our closest ally that the policy you've just praised was a good idea that's the important thing what president's compass on the media or tweets whatever is not the important point the important point is what he said in public is important Jones cleverly and what he said in public was that he wish he hadn't expelled Russian diplomats but the point is they were expelled James okay so let's not dwell on this let's move on instead to but the positives that you can see on the horizon what do you think will be his his first priority well the first priorities what he said his first priority will be which is making sure that we deliver on the on the mandate given to all of us in London which is to leave the European Union do so in good order and and then get on with the really important other elements of government which is about you know making sure our public services are well funded by control education as well funding to get police officers on the streets the kind of things that actually people talk to me I'm far more regularly about than brexit why do you think the government you're currently part of couldn't do those things well the the government is doing those things nasty more so there's been a record level of investment in the NHS for example we need to make sure that money gets to the front line and is effectively used there has been increases in police funding over the last couple of years so what's he going to do that's new do you think what are gonna be the things we can look forward to that aren't already happening well I think the biggest one is the brexit I mean received voted for and against the withdrawal agreement which way is he leaning at the moment do we know well the most recent yeah the most recent I'm elated voted in favor of the we thought that said the House of Commons rejected it so something something has got to change and what yeah that is that well that that is that is what is is is gonna have to be open to negotiation with here's the yoga the EU were the heads of heads of state and Heads of Government around the European even to try and get something something which convinces the UK Parliament that this is a deal worth supporting we get to your house but if that can't happen we have still got to deliver on the commitment that was made by both sides and referendum campaign 2016 it's just a little peek is there any grounds for I don't know how preview our titular this level of diplomacy is there any grounds for believing that the heads of the 27 European states hold a position that's at odds with their frequently stated public position well in a negotiation people lose positions that's what negotiations are about in the EU when they have a move since the withdrawal agreement was agreed have it repeatedly that they won't is there any grounds for optimism that they're fibbing well the spices process they said repeatedly there were no bespoke deals but liberal agreement was a bespoke deal they said repeatedly that you can't separate the Four Freedoms yet the dual agreement separated for freedoms so things that they have in the plan separate the four freedoms during a transition period it doesn't separate the four freedoms as a future relationship you know this James yeah absolutely transition is not a word I need to explain the meaning of two you know the point is James they said they was never going to be a separation of four freedoms they have broken that in the future relation point the point I'm making yeah okay you can haggle around details if you want but that's not haggling around details it's establishing facts lately they said absolutely that something could never happen and then they put forward the agreement which did that very thing so the point I'm making the broader planet makes it is that the fact that at some point in the Geisha the one of the negotiating party so something cannot happen that doesn't necessarily mean that they won't at some point given the right incentives move and this is what negotiation is all about this is how negotiations work and what what we are I think most of us hoping for is that the EU recognize the reality that the current structure didn't get through the House of Commons despite numerous attempts and that they are able to move in a meaningful way that gives us a chance of getting it through the house because ultimately but as a passionate long-standing Rex tier I would much prefer to leave with an agreement and I also think that you recognized that it's much better for the ETA to leave with an agreement as well different from the agreement that they've already agreed well as I say that negotiations about changing positions and what I really hope is through negotiations summer and and here's the nub isn't it or the rub it Johnson himself has said that the withdrawal agreement was demonstrably inferior to remaining in the European Union and yet he voted for it you are I understand why and I think plausibly claiming that there is a mandate for leaving both with a withdrawal agreement and without a withdrawal agreement most of the polling suggested that the prospect of leaving with with No Deal had occurred - I mean a vanishingly small minority of people who voted to leave but but in your defense a lot of people are now retrospectively claiming that that's what they wanted all along it's a fairly blurred mandate isn't it yeah the literature stated we will be leaving with a deal but the the ballot paper had two options leave or remain and the majority of people that voted voted to leave and that having having being promised that they'd be leaving with a deal yeah but also the remains I played a hole not talking about there we're talking about the mandate not the people who haven't got a mandate though they were promised they promised that we'd leave with a beer business no no the mandate he leaves the ballot paper said lead will remain people to leave the ballot paper didn't carry any other you think that was a mistake in retrospect no no because because the question in a referendum just like elections be clear and the the question was clear do you want to leave what do you want to remain and people voted to leave that's what we going to do no it isn't complicated just it can you think of one example from that febrile period of politics in the run up to the 2016 referendum when anybody on your side suggested that leaving with the No Deal was possible just one example I will ask you again can you think of one example from from the entire leave campaign whether it was that the Farage flavored or the Boris Johnson and Michael Gove flavored campaigns that suggested in good faith that leaving with No Deal was a possibility the question is can appointee the mandate you've got the question wait the question was clear and I ambiguous do you want to beef or a may remain didn't have any explanation and the fact that the EU is changing means that had we remained we would have had voted to remain we would have had a holdover people saying oh hang on a second a factual recall of what people said in the run-up to 2016 that's not hypothetical I'm asking you to provide us with fact but he's all right you've said you can't so carry on so the point I'm saying is the EU is changing one Berlin has put forward your idea that makes a nation state because on tax policies should be scrapped these are changes I think you is is my one person is covering there's plenty of people in the EU that have objected to it and and will vote to reject it as you also well know but we're short of time final question what do you think Jeremy Hunt's calls for a European Navy I don't agree with I don't having a parallel structure to make a NATO our best defense you know relationship it's it's underscored peace for decades I think that that should be welcomed so when Mike Pompeo says that they're not going to help British ships in the Gulf where should the British Foreign Minister foreign secretary turn for assistance well so I don't know this difficult next time I don't want Michael and player because I thought I'd not seen that so you know I'm not going to comment on our honor code but I haven't seen but the point is ultimately yeah NATO is the is a right defence mechanism European nation states are members of NATO and therefore if we are going to if we're going to rely on our allies NATO's be the best way of doing I think issue Brian ionisers how alliances work I think native is the best mechanism for doing that I think it's racist what he said to the the four ladies in Congress her in any way shape or form they're all Americans they just pointing out that their disruptive activities when a hardline socialists make their left-wing extremists and I trying to change American politics from within another point and what's he trying to do when he took over from Barack Obama he was he trying to carry on doing politics exactly the same as Obama did or was he trying to change it from within well it successfully changed from within so it's not it's not a trick question did Donald Trump it seek to carry on conducting politics in America in a fashion identical to his predecessor or did he seek to change it from within by becoming president I know it's not trick question and I'll say is I just said again Obama didn't change American society like he wanted to so Donald Trump honors reestablishing American capitalism pardon you Donald Trump is re-establishing American capitalism 51 months of consecutive growth all of which began with Obama no others taking credit for growth that's absolutely hogwash and you know it Stuart can you camp like you are in sympathy of these ladies in Congress they're trying to transform the studio on the radio tree they may not know you are on the side of these women because you would favor a socialist society or left-wing society as well I'm not interrupting you I'm waiting for you to say something sensible no you can't just kind of combat with anything like us a few these with him and names that were named the media named them well IOC for a start what does that stand for Alexandra okay or occasional cortex No so you know all about their politics you don't even know their names and you're on national radio having your pants pulled down Alexandria okay acacia Cortese Allah firstly claiming that you know everything about their pot so which policy do you think most demonstrates their socialist tendencies Stuart high taxes beyond all belief you can't have high taxes under socialism because everybody owns the same so let's try again which policy do you think best espouses their socialist tendencies no everyone same after the socialist template successful which means destroy the middle-class socialism and they want high taxes for high earners are you telling me those women don't want socialism in America you don't even know them sorry sir carry on right I knew you'd ask me their names because you couldn't come up with anything so I looked on the screen and my phone yes why didn't you know their names before you ran him because I just looked them up and research tonight and I know exactly what I didn't know then before you ran you if you know everything about their politics why do you think just only theoretically why do you think you might not know their names but you know what they stand for politically like I got their names up on the web I already have I've asked you to name one socialist policy that they support Hittite that's not okay Stuart what do you think socialism means socialism is an ideology you subscribe to it what does it mean so yeah I'm for the record I'm not a socialist but tell me what do you think what do you think socialism means look you don't need a Wikipedia me out of this argument but I don't - I know what it means tell me what you think it means I didn't say the word you did what does it mean it means collapse then you know it you subscribe to it go on socialism wins : socialism means collapse do you want to say something do you want to expand it on that Stuart at all well socialist policies might have never been proved to work so name that name as socialist and that name is socialist policy sure we're back back round the other side of the circle now you can't define what it means and you can't name a single socialist policy what are you so angry about well I'm sure actually speak later so that you just call me interrupt me and get them each of them in name the things like a socialist policy or the meaning of socialism so this is what happens you see a left wing left wing media commentator will not let someone speak what what the socialism mean you can't have an opinion about socialism if you don't know what it means so what does it mean today personally no silly sausage to everyone to everybody not to you personally right socialism is an ideology it's it's a political system and it does not work what does it mean what does it mean no change I found in in support Donald Trump and those comments aren't racist who's willing in America - what the socialism me so this will happen just so you get somewhere into a dead end socialism I don't know the wicked but you know you're trying to get me Wikipedia me to death just any meaning at all Stuart I didn't mention the word it's 12 o'clock I've been doing this topic for now no one said socialism except you what does it mean no no everyone that's phoned in there's more or less been in support of the four fifth column as they're in America what does socialism mean Stuart well I told you listeners okay as they are listen and not in their head the ones that support what saying is socialism is a template that the four ladies in Congress is trying to bring into America it doesn't were Stuart's on national radio condemning socialism and revealing he doesn't know what it means okay it's light it's high taxes its health care for doesn't work or bankrupt the country is attacking big business it's an incestuous relationship between listen next time of course I'm patronizing you you're a clown you're on national radio condemning socialism he knows no you're a clown no you're at now and you're just as bad as those women in Congress and my dad's bigger than you at that right go home I think you should introduce himself yeah down with economic and social rights if you didn't have any economic and social rights what would happen to disabled and sick people with the work capability assessment Napier University and heriot-watt just released evidence about how it causes almost universal Department notes about doubt it goes people I have friends who were institutionalized after going through it it is an act of violence and we are dying and there's this election is life or death for us the rule truth is the money's got to come from somewhere and it's very it's very easy it's very it's very easy and I can think of lots of things that I would like to avoid making difficult decisions on and lots of areas like the health service or schools I won't put even more money in but unless you've got a strong economy creating the revenue it's just a childish wish this we've trying to do our best to get the balance right between responsible public finances and in this special area you choose to sacrifice tens of thousands of disabled people for the sake of that well I've heard the persecution of disabled and and sick people called many many things and I've heard calls for to be stopped and properly funded called many things as well but I've never heard it called a childish wishlist before koke because you don't have to be disabled or sick to suffer from austerity the typical user of food banks is not someone it's languishing in poverty it's somebody has a cash flow problem episodic great it is he was lying when he said that that claim had come from the Trussell trust the trust said that while delays to benefit payments were one of the main reasons people turned to food banks such crises tended to be exacerbated by poverty and low pay which were also direct causes for many to seek assistance this came after research was published showing that there are at least two thousand food banks in the UK been a bit unfair to dominate robbed because he does actually understand some stuff you know all the people saying that will easily be able to leave the European Union and have no checks at all on the Irish border yeah that stuff we've got a bilateral relationship with Arland we're very close relationship we've also got the history of the troubles all of these things can be handled very sensitively but I think if not people could you if Island obviously remains an EU member then you Nationals can travel well then come into the UK without a possible if you're worried about border controls and security in frontex are if you're worried about the effect of those evils you couldn't leave a backdoor without some kind either of checks there with any country or assurances in relation to the checks that they're conducting or obviously otherwise everyone with ill-will towards this country would go around that route but hang on a minute how could anybody campaign for brexit simultaneously acknowledge that would she need checks at the British border in Ireland and also understand the objectives of the Good Friday Agreement it's almost as if he'd never read the Good Friday Agreement presumably he had done so before he actually started pontificating as Secretary of State for leaving the European Union presumably did I just ask you and since you had such a critical role does the pirate rule as the better secretary presented in battery hardware the Belfast agreement please don't line up behind the immigration and the store and tell us that you happened where they've been and I haven't sit down and started that beginning gone through it and of course at various points in the negotiations and when issues have been writings it has been an important opportunity to delve in to the different aspects so very carefully so which aspects so you haven't read the Belfast agreement in its entirety I haven't sat down to gone from I've used it as a reference tool gosh so no social and economic rights looking after disabled and sick people is a childish wish list people using food banks have got cash flow problems you would need checks at the Irish border but we should leave the European Union anyway which suggests you haven't read the Good Friday Agreement by the time you become Secretary of State for leaving the European Union you're pushed into a corner where you have to admit that you hadn't and I quote properly even though the words sound wrong you've never sit down and gone through it correctly and any sort of positives we agree to free movement of people's it depends what you mean by full access to the single market I think we would not see any trade barriers go up because we're the fifth biggest economy in the world the the European firm set of six to eight billion pounds more in goods and services than we do then look at the options being put out there Swiss Norwegian Turkish I think because Britain's economy is bigger than all of those economies combined and because the French car manufacturer armors German car manufacturers set a 16 six to eight billion pounds more each year than we sell them we have very well placed a mutual self-interest suggests we'd cut a very good deal and there's an it's it's certainly not in the Europeans interest to erect trade barriers Wow I mean seriously now is it possible that he could be more wrong about everything even if he woke up every morning and said today I am determined to be the most wrong person in wrong land Dominic Raab just being Dominic rob would manage to be even more wrong presumably he accepted overtime questions and criticisms of his analysis given that we now know his analysis was completely ridiculous I think there is a lot of project fear coming out almost like a scare story every day the CV I have said we'd have a high level ambitious free trade deal and even the Prime Minister has said it would be scare mongering to suggest otherwise CBI and indeed the tea you see today of course have described in apocalyptic terms the No Deal that Rob for reasons I'm yet to fully understand has suddenly found himself in favor of I'm not the only one that doesn't understand things we want a spoke arrangement on goods which recognises the peculiar frankly Geographic economic entity that is the United Kingdom we are and I hadn't quite understood the full extent of his but if you look at the UK and you look at how we trade in goods we see clear alliance on the Dover Calais crossing well who'd have thought it hey and I guess in his defense as he said on Ian Dale's programme the other night he is the kind of person that really speaks up for ordinary working people except when he offered a book in 2012 which described British workers as among the worst idlers in the world you've got a cabinet that basically put in place to kind of perpetuate policies that are going to be really damaging to a lot of communities of color and a lot of minority communities and in prison Priti Patel isn't happy to advocate for the death party mistake she can't really get more like neocon right-wing than that but it puts a very very kind of insidious pressure on people who are activists about myself against policies like that when you stand up and say look for instance the vast like people of color in this country disproportionately in prison if you start bringing death penalty into it particularly for violent crimes they're going to be disproportionately the victims of the death penalty as well and they're not necessarily going to be a moniker of guilt or innocence and they'll say but hey you saw so you're saying this policy's racist but it can't be racist the Home Secretary is you know the problem of the new descent but there's a little bit that I mean it's a complicated enough conversation as it is without a lot and I understand what why you brought this in but just just to knit that line of inquiry in the bud that would apply to all justice policies yeah it worked so so it's not the mean the death penalty is a big one so to speak so it's there nothing for you for you as a as a black British man yeah you don't derive any what's the word I want encouragement comfort whatsoever from seeing black British faces around the cabinet table which when you were young would have been close to unthinkable when I was young yes I definitely would have but now I'm old enough to understand the process we've got them to their position in the first place go on I mean you've got to ask why the person has been selected not just because of their ethnicity but because of their politics they're there to fulfill a role and if that role that they're there to fulfill kind of also involves kind of oppressing you know communities of color via policies it kind of doesn't really matter if I know actually I like that it does matter it makes it work it makes it worse yeah I mean so you'd rather not have any faces of color around this cabinet table you as a black British man would feel happier if there were no representation at all of your ethnicity around the cabinet table because you disapprove so profoundly of what of the politics of that cabinet yeah okay that's the kind of question is would you prefer to be beaten up by someone who looks like you or someone who looks different to you if you could be actually body is not to be beaten up in the first place but it doesn't really matter who's doing the kicking and it's you know just kind of I don't want to make this into a history lesson but this is feel free deserve this is a colonial thing is been going on for a really long time the British Empire is very good at going into it picking the the minority ethnic group that looked like the majority but also had a little bit more power shaking hands down and said do you wanna hunt you want to hold the whip in the chuckles okay okay you do that I know it's it's quite a big reach there isn't it but it's how you feel it'll be sincere it makes me uncomfortable not as uncomfortable as the line about tan coats of color but but you're pretty close to that position you see them as facilitators potentially facilitators of the oppression of from want of a better phrase quotes their own people end quote well the oppression of everyone but he just makes the people who are most advocate like they're the strongest advocates for the strongest advocates for communities of color usually are people of color yes and it makes it very very difficult to argue a policy is directly against the people like you based on the way you look and your ethnicity when the person in asking that policy is also like you and shares you in this ethnicity it's the same reason Ben Carson was given housing in the state and this is a really really good opportunity for people don't think that's fair I I think I think I seen you're right about Ben Carson but I don't think that's why Boris Johnson has appointed these people well no I don't think that's why he's a point they're not tokens Inc but he's chosen them for their politics definitively he's chosen them for their politics the fact that they're yes their face fits is unfortunate for us but very fortunate for him and yeah I see what you mean because then you have James cleverly taking to social media and and I was impressed by this and and I'm wondering now whether I should have been because I thought it was a really powerful point Jeremy Corbyn talks a great game and and the shadow home secretary of courses is Diane Albert but here is a cabinet that is I think more multi-ethnic than any cabinet we've ever seen before and as a lazy liberal white man I just thought yeah that's pretty cool and you're telling me actually caught you'll say not just not just it's not cool you're saying it's the opposite it's actually bad actively bad it's the same as feminist representation right because every party has literally had two amazing female leaders who have been you know great have risen to the top of the party right that should be a thing that we put on a pedestal and go wow they've had two female Prime Minister's the Conservative Party until of course you look at the record of those prime ministers and what they actually enacted and the things that they did with that position you can part of the problem of of politics based around identity in general is that it's very hard to kind of find a line through right how much is it is representation important in terms of enacting policy because if you get the right person the right kind of person to fulfill a role and that role is fulfilled in a way that's damaging and doTERRA test for the entire country yes it really is the right kind of person no I really taking on board a lot of what you say I'm struggling with some of it actually in a good way I'm struggling in selection particularly because people like myself and I walked fully whole miles up here we've been banging on about representation for ages yeah we've been doing this hope we want the boardrooms that like us we want cabinet to look like us and it's almost kind of gone they've gone look this is what you wanted this is diversity right exactly exactly that exactly that oh god you've got understood my own discombobulation better than I have myself let me try one more with you which is and I know as as a white bloke who went to public school I know my life would be a lot different and you know achieving stuff would have been a lot harder and I've been black and or not privately educated not not having gone to public school so so to see somebody rise through the ranks of British society in a way that wouldn't have happened in previous generations would at the beginning of this hour I would just have seen that as an unalloyed good but this depends on how you look at it yeah I know it does now James go you are looking at it through the point of view there's somebody maintain manages to get into the room and I've managed to find a way to open the door which is a beautiful way of looking at it yeah but you kind of got to understand from from my perspective and people a lot of a lot of people like me it's who opened the door for them now if they've been selected into selected by a system that hasn't really shifted its chain or changes politics in any way shape or form it's because they have effectively managed to do whatever it needed they needed to do to get invited in and there's a necessarily means that they worked to get the door open it just means that they have been selected I could join the party oh man you know this was the silver lining to me for the whole Boris Johnson cabinet the silver lining was a bit seemed to be a blow for diversity and and you've just pulled the rug from underneath me Adrian and you're far from alone in fact it's almost unanimous at the moment Wayne who is is mixed-race it's clear they are just tokens mate Martina right sorry they are tokens this caller is spot-on fantastic caller on LBC at the moment says Gareth um presumably because of that perspicacity that you've just displayed so feed me for sort of laying you recasting you in the role of spokesperson for every property everyone have cut everyone a bit of colour but am i part of the problem then when I say well that's good i'ma hesitate to say yes because far more problematic to me is are the attitudes of other people like for instance like your like previous qualities before the break here and still Marvy reeling over never heard somebody actually say like off of Twitter on all reverse racism things but um because that becomes very very different you know what he meant because I still I'm not sure what he meant but he did he mean he eat well now you tell me well well I've usually encountered it yeah if a person usually a person of in the UK at least the white majority yeah taking any form of understanding any form of action or attitude that places people who don't look like them and who aren't like them in a position in a favorable position in order to address the balance right as being a discrimination against him so he's the victim so it don't know because a gentleman like himself doesn't see himself as winning you had an amazing he had an amazing stain on this like he was a born three Nalepa and convinced herself he scored after it yes and it's so so so common well you're telling me is I do come out just missed it on this occasion because it wasn't as you say it wasn't something I've actually seen in the wild before a sort of encountered it on social media so it is that sense of not realizing that you have or not acknowledging that you have any privilege because your life doesn't really feel great but really really resenting the fact that what you have you're now expected to share with people who would once have been firmly below you in the in the future and a little bit more love for Adrienne you know how I feel about it I get a little bit uncomfortable when callers go on a too much praise because I'm massively insecure and full of myself but in for a penny in for a pound Adrienne is brilliant get him a slot on LBC bike is in Alka time in Portugal Mike what would you like to say I'm just going back to your point earlier where you said you feel sorry for leave otres that are lying to themselves now yes but I'm not lying to myself lil not one of the ones I feel sorry for them ah that's okay so why did you vote something I voted to leave to leave the EU yes why why because I don't like the way the money is wasted it for example just going to their posh building for four days a month I mean what is that all about the Parliament yeah but why can't they continue doing what they're doing in the building they're in why do they have to move everything all the paperwork to another building for four days a month why is that I suppose if we were in the European Parliament on a more robust level we could be agitating to change that from from inside couldn't we that's how democracy but why would it be robust level oh because we keep electing idiots to go to the European Parliament you've got no interest whatsoever in enacting laws or contributing to the legislative process that may be best illustrated probably by Farage's record at the fishing committee would you know there's your answer I mean if there's things about the way things are done that we don't like we should have spent the last 30 years behaving like honest brokers and wielding our power in that Parliament I I know less than you do about the mobility of paperwork and offices but it doesn't sound like much of a reason to embrace 15 billion pounds a year of extra costs according to the government's own papers simply to come close to trading in the way that we currently do now does it you worried about wasting money the government's own analysis says 15 billion quid a year just to do the paperwork that's true but this is an ongoing thing with what sort of about there that would be 15 billion pounds a year how do you mean 15 billion pounds a year that's what it costs them to move does it no no that's what the government said yesterday it will cost British businesses to simply fill in the paperwork they need to fill in to trade in a No Deal environment so they actually said that is what it's going to cost and not what they think it's going to cost the the government has done an analysis they wouldn't yes but this is the government led by Boris Johnson Mike yeah but we've all seen these reports of what could happen and it this is the government led by Boris Johnson and you've forgotten the script because you're supposed to say that that's a remain of government that was Theresa May who didn't really want to leave these impact assessments now are the ones that people like Michael Gove are trying to keep out of your hands and the 15 billion pounds reported either yesterday or on Monday that's the government that is planning to do no deal has has commissioned or or received that research so I'm afraid that bit of the script where you pretend not to believe that Theresa May is an honest broker that doesn't work anymore my friend no well I don't believe Theresa May was an honest broker that's what I just said exactly but Boris Johnson is you see if you're a brexit are and he's the head of the government that has received the advice the 15 billion pounds a year is what it will cost so unless it coming I don't know how much it costs to do the thing you said with that with the paperwork but if you really voted to leave the European Union because you're worried about money being wasted well you've done a bit of a boo-boo now you think well I know okay well what other reasons do you have it can't just have been the fact that they operate in two offices the continuous movement of people ah where are you calling from I'm calling from Portugal okay carry on so yeah the continue know our infrastructure in England at the moment is under great pressure to try and support what is there at the moment after nine years of austerity and cuts yeah well you know austerity had to happen you know austerity is the idea what are you going to say about borrowing because I have to warn you I know how much this government has borrowed and I know what the debt is now compared to when they took over exactly you can't keep borrowing and not have cutbacks right but they have yes they have but this is something that has to so Michael I wanted to leave the European Union because there's too much freedom of movement is that how is that how we remember this call indeed ok mate now you know how that looks right how does it look okay you don't my bad I will still vote for Nigel and the brexit party even if he doesn't run but I would prefer him to run Ryan say yes and would you like me to clean your guttering for 25,000 pounds I still think I I think one of the reasons he may not be running is because say they only got ten mp's maybe everyone going to get anything any anything he won't have as much say as he would do as leading in Europe but he can do both mark I hate it when this happens I have to point out simple facts to you and you've rung up to express support doesn't who doesn't tell you the truth is the D can be both could be an MEP and an MP and then it breaks it happens under Boris Johnson still he won't be in the European Parliament anymore so just talk me through how that would give him more power than being in Westminster no I mean I personally prefer him to run for MEP and I don't know the reason maybe leaving the European Union he's already an MEP mark sorry sir I didn't mean that I meant an MP yeah sorry okay so I personally just said that you thought that he wasn't running to be an MP because he'd have more power by being an ex MEP yeah it's quite possible I'm being a real it not made being a fantasy's there nothing again it's not risky mark I'm here to help there's a few little massive errors there that you've been labouring under foot for a few years now but you've only been on the radio over to use these aren't views he is an MEP after brexit he can't be that's just the fact you voted for him not to be an MEP anymore when you voted for brexit mark what I'm saying is I believe in a clean straight get out there's no such thing normally a conservative there's no such thing as a clean straight get out I don't like Boris yeah I'm just telling I don't like Boris is why not laughs because I think it still ties us in in what in what way is correct on that no in Isis in military which I'm very concerned about how it doesn't it does where it will ties him for a certain amount of time and we've got to get out we are responsible for so okay let's just pause there because I I'm like Nigel I respect you enough to actually display interest in the words that you say so when you say it will tires in for a certain amount of time can you tell me precisely what you mean by that yes you know because you know that it will tires in for a certain amount of time so I'd like to know what will it ties into and what is and what is the certain amount of time two years what do you mean it's probably at least two years that sounds like you've got no idea no will be tied into the military side of things for at least two years yes we've tried in a while ago into the year for example if we wanted it okay three inches let's pick on a country like Israel for instance pardon we've always been friends with them I'm just picking on a general country which is an easy one to pick on alright if we work for any reason they wonder major attack and we wanted to defend them yes you know and the rest of Europe would say no yes we would have problems in doing that you mean like Iraq when France was passionately opposed to it and we piled in with george w bush yeah we what we were members only while we were members of the European Union I mean like that that was a different treaty day but we didn't mark you see you've read this on Facebook and it's not true and yet here you are still claiming to be R did you call yourself a breaks a tear when you rang in saying stuff that's not true and yet you still think that you cast your vote correctly it's built on nonsense my friend we're not going to agree to disagree there is absolutely nothing in the claim that there are new treaty obligations kicking in in 2020 or 2022 that would prevent us from offering military poor that other EU allies didn't want to cooperate with there's absolute it's not a view it's not an opinion it's not an agreed to disagree you have believed lies and cast your vote as a result of those lies and yet for psychological reasons you still support the way you voted despite the fact that your reasons for doing it we're all false mate okay the interview with Nigel on Sunday morning in the Andrew Marr show if you take that for instance Nigel made it quite clear what was going on did he want Andrew normally tears people down quite really but he said you know he let him carry on yes so what what is going on there mark well he let him say about that you know what we get is when we going out is BBC which is more Lesley when Farage has been on question time more than anybody else on the planet on the whole if you look at questions if I was you I'd welcome the sidetrack because I want to go back to this treaty that would prevent us from cooperating militarily with allies if our European Union partners didn't want us to where did you learn that but you should have before you ring national radio let alone cost of votes cast an actual vote exercise your pure democratic right and it turns out that you did it on a lie and yet your cross your cross with the person who's pointing out the lie you're not cross with the lie mark how long will it take you to cross that River do you think next time I'll bring you up you've now got all the information mark because I've given it to you because I respect you okay but we will disagree no no no we can't disagree on it because I've given you all the information there is no opinion here and as you can provide me with a scintilla of evidence that continuing European Union membership would prevent us from undertaking a military campaign akin to the one in Iraq which many of our European partners didn't endorse or join me we have signed up to stuff we have not but here's me above getting paid to do this telling you that we haven't and here's you not knowing where it's come from or who said it or which bit of Facebook you got it from saying that we have so who do you think is right okay to give me anything MA I'm giving you this one I'm giving you the knowledge now to form an opinion based on facts rather than lies and feelings and the only opinion you can form based on facts is that the people who told you this nonsense about treaties and armies lied to you so why would you still trust them or want them to be in part really weren't like that me but I would love what day should we bring you tomorrow know I work as a coach driver so it doesn't work like that all right well just just when's your next rest stop all right now I need time to get the information okay well we'll check in with you in a couple of days then and if it turns out you've been conned who are you going to get cross with me or Nigel we wait and see and of course you don't believe you've been conned that's why that's why you're having this meltdown on the radio and so when when it turns out you've been conned who are you going to get cross with me or the person who conned you there's other issues we can talk about the other issues go into work trust you mark that's the whole point I trust you to be intelligent enough to realize the difference between facts and lies and you're very close I can feel it have a great day [Music] you

Channel: LBC

Views: 521,280

Rating: 3.9115045 out of 5

Keywords: Boris, election, uk election, general election 2019 uk, general election, uk election 2019, uk election polls, uk election debate, boris johnson, jeremy corbyn, labour, conservatives, election night 2019, election 2019, uk general election 2019, uk general election debate, jeremy corbyn interview, election 2019 uk polls, election uk 2019, election coverage, Lib Dems, Brexit Party, Jo swinson, Nigel Farage, lbc, lbc live, watch lbc, iain dale, james o'brien, interview

Id: bmALZ2fHaBE

Length: 92min 44sec (5564 seconds)

Published: Wed Dec 25 2019