I'm honored to hear like
all the things that have happened in people's lives
because of my dad's obedience so it's an honor, it wasn't
the easiest childhood but like I said, I wouldn't
trade it for the world and God has a sense of humor. Now I'm married to a minister. I said, I never
would do that and I've learned so much about... - She couldn't resist. - I couldn't resist this one. No, but I've learned so much.
What to do, what not to do. Just the ways of God. ♪♪ ♪
Genesis 26:18 tells us ♪
"Isaac dug again the
wells of Abraham". ♪♪ ♪
In every generation, there
have been revivals, ♪
massive moves of the Spirit ♪
that changed the course
of history. ♪♪ ♪
In every revival, there were
believers like you ♪
who chose to answer the call ♪
to become the one in
their generation. ♪
Discover your call
to be the one ♪
in your generation. ♪
We are about to take you ♪
face to face with history. ♪♪ Okay, Michael
and Jessica Koulianos. So glad you're here. - Thank you, Gene. - I want to
talk about... Let's dive
right in about what the Holy Spirit
is doing today. Now, I'm just a little bit
older than both of you and... and it's exciting to see what God's done in
your meetings and what you're seeing and actually, being in some
of your meetings, seeing how the
Holy Spirit moves but I want to
know from you, guys, what is it that you see
happening next? - You want to speak about that? - Oh, sure. I just...I feel like
there is an excitement that I
haven't seen since
I was a little kid to be honest with
you. Um... If you rewind like 10 years,
I was having a moment because we have little kids
and our oldest is 12, our youngest is 6 and I was
kind of going on YouTube watching all, you know... Kathryn Kuhlman,
all the crusades... - I never do that. - Oh, yea! We do it
all the time, so yea.
[Laughing] Not here, right? But so, we were going back and I
was like, "It's so sad, I really hope my kids can
grow up the way that we grew up and we
saw like revival. We saw amazing
miracles and just amazing moves
of the Holy Spirit. I want that so
bad for my kids, Lord and I feel like the last few
years, especially, I feel like God is
doing it again so I'm so happy with what
God is doing. I feel like, I've always known
the Holy Spirit is relevant but I feel like now,
everyone is starting to see like who He is, like He's
a person and we need Him in this generation especially
and there is a hunger like I've never seen before
actually, right now, especially in young people. - Yea, I haven't seen this
hunger since the early 90's, - Right, - You know, if you look at
the early 90's, that's why I love this show.
Thanks for having us. Revivals...
- Yes, this is awesome. - Amen. God is reviving
the Church, it's always on His heart.
- That's right. - So, if you look at the early
90's, you'll remember this. You can go to Toronto.
In Florida alone, you could go to one
of Ronny's meetings, you could go to one of her
daddy's meetings. You could go up to Brownsville.
Just in one state... - Yea... - Everywhere you look, you
had the outpouring in Argentina. You had what
was happening in the UK with Lois and Ken Gott and it was just spreading
like wildfire so I remember those days, especially going to OCC, Jessica's dad's church, who ran
the Christian Center, people lining up. We line up to get out
of our church where I grew up and now, I saw these people,
lining up to get in and I remember that kiss of
His presence in the air like we were discussing
prior to the show... Certain meetings where-- where before the guy
even comes out and ministers, you sense the
presence of the Lord and so we are starting to
sense that now, we are starting to see people
lining up for hours to come into meetings. We are
starting to see people... - All over the world... - All over the
world, get healed before they even get to us.
One girl, I was in Ohio at one of our Jesus
Regionals in Youngstown, Ohio where amazingly enough, Kathryn Kuhlman had her Sunday
meetings in Youngstown, - Right, - at Stanbaugh Auditorium
every Sunday. That was kind of like her church
setting and I told the Lord, "Lord, I don't want
people to remember me, when they are done with
these services, I want them
to remember You". And the
Holy Spirit told me, Gene, He said, "If the people
know more about your ministry by the end of the meeting
than they do Jesus, it just tells me you
haven't fully yield it to me. - Wow... - and so just recently, I
was down in YWAM in Kona,
Hawaii, at their headquarters and the
director got up and he said, "Michael, last time you
were here, no offense, when you left the meeting, we didn't even care
because Jesus was there". I thought, "Okay, good,
that's a compliment". The point is this. This lady was
standing in the line to get in, she had a growth
on her foot like a tumor and it disappeared in
line, coming in and she ran up during the
testimony time to share her testimony and that
did something in my heart, tells me this, that
God is wanting to come to not only touch us but He
wants a habitation where His glory is been
poured out and remaining and intensifying like brother
Copeland has been saying that "This is the year of
the Holy Ghost and fire". - Yea, amen. It's time.
- That's time. - Yea. Jess, you mentioned just
a minute ago about your experience in the 90's. Of course, I remember
you much younger - Ha ha... - and you know, coming into
the meetings when I was working for pastor
Benny and all that happened. What do you... What was it like, and I know
everybody must ask you. [Jessica smiling] What was it like
growing up "Hinn"? - Oh, man. I hated it growing up. I
sure did. I hated it. We talked about this all
the time and we laugh and... It was hard to grow up. - Why did you hate it?
Why did you not like it? - I didn't like
it because I think--Um... I felt a lot of pressure being in the
family that I was in and I felt that
there was a... You know, we had the
church at the time and so... There was always
people you know, "My dad looks up to you,
please be a good example" and I just wanted to be a kid
like every other kid, you know, so I think it was
a lot of pressure. It was--back then, when my
dad was really kind of
getting known, at the time, there wasn't a
lot of other ministers on the scene at that time
that were getting known and we were living
in Orlando which, it's a big city but it's a
small city so we didn't-- we couldn't really do
much and I think... - were seen everywhere
you went, - Yes and I always joke with
my dad, I go, "People love you or hate you,
you know that, right? There is no between with you".
He's like, "I know" so I felt like we did
get picked on a lot so that was very hard as a
child to understand it and I didn't understand that yes, some people are mean
but God is not mean and that's not Christianity,
that's not like don't... You know, I was too young to
understand it all so it was very hard but
now, looking back, I wouldn't trade the life I had
for anything in the world. I'm so honored that God
put me in the family that He put me in. I think-- even yesterday somebody came
up to us and said, "Your dad prayed for me, years
ago and this happened"... I hear stories like that all the
time and as a child, you just think, "Okay,
whatever" but now, as an adult and now in ministry, I'm honored to hear like all the
things that have happened in people's lives because of
my dad's obedience so it's an honor. It wasn't the
easiest childhood but-- like I said, I wouldn't
trade it for the world and God has a sense of humor. Now
I'm married to a minister. I said, I never would do that and I've learned
so much about... - She couldn't resist.
- I couldn't resist this one but I've learned so much. What
to do, what not to do, just the ways of God. You know, my dad and
mom did a great job in training us in those ways
and we just saw so much, the good and the bad so
I felt like we were equipped to run this race that God
is giving us to do so... - Jess, if I'm
getting too personal, you
don't have to answer but... - No, you ask
whatever you want. - What did you learn, I mean,
because you were inside obviously Pastor Benny's
home and growing up in all in what you said. I
mean, I can't imagine the pressure, you know, just working there had its
own pressure. You know...I love you, Pastor
Benny but it's true. Anyway. He was a nice
boss all the time, right? - So, at some point, you didn't rely on your dad's
experience with the Holy Spirit. - Yea.
- Uh-uh. We talked
about that this morning. Yes, we did. Yea. Not to get too long on to my
testimony and stuff but I did have my moment
away from the Lord for a long time in my
life from 13 to 21. I just kind of ran
away from God, completely and went through a journey and got kicked out of
Christian college and all that stuff and I think
that was the first time in my life, when I got kicked
out of a Christian college, I had to have that moment like, "Oh, my gosh, what am I
gonna do with my life now like it doesn't matter that my
dad is Benny Hinn, it doesn't matter that nothing that...I
know this person, this person, this person, it
doesn't matter like I have nothing to show for,
I don't really know God. I only know the God that
my dad talks about but I don't know Him personally like
I personally don't know Him". - Yea, 21? - This is like 21,
- Yea, okay. - And it's still...I still
even--I'm almost 36, I still have my moments, where I
have to make sure that I know God for myself and
my own relationship because
sometimes, when you grow up in ministry
even being married to a
minister too, I'm sure wives can relate to
this too, you can just hear all your husband's sermons,
hear your family preach, hear this and that, hear this
conference, this conference, I mean, really anybody can
relate to this and you can hear the message and hear their
experience but you've never had your own
personal experience with Jesus so there is nothing
living in there, there is nothing new so you can
get caught in that trap that I did as a kid because I really didn't
know God for myself. I knew the God of my family
and my dad used to always say, "God has no grandchildren,
Jess. God has no grandchildren". Don't forget that, like
you cannot get to Heaven just by me and by this person. You
have to find Jesus on your own". Unfortunately,
I was stubborn and it took me a lot longer that
it should of but... - I was there for
some of those times... - Yes.
- [Laughs] - I remember you, the
college experience and all that was going on.
- Oh yea. - So, you said something
that is very profound, just a second ago
and that was you know, Pastor Benny told you about, "God has no grandchildren" and
you had to come to that place and it's important even now, that you have to make sure
you're not riding the coattails of something else or-- or the calling that's
on your husband's life. So what do you do? I'm sure there
are people out there that-- - That's a really
good question, yea. - Okay, so...you
know to do that, but what do you do, Jess? - Yea, you have to
spend time with Jesus like and I have my
moments where... around Christian
environments all the time and put in
situations, I can tell-- we did talk about this,
this morning, I can tell when someone ask a question,
I'd be thinking, "Oh, this is what
Michael would answer, this is how he would answer it" or when it is really
coming from my heart, from my own
experience, and I can honestly say, if I'm not
spending time with Jesus, like daily, I'm off and that's how you have
to be in the Word of God, read the Scriptures,
pray, worship, not going on
YouTube, which I know, as moms sometimes,
I'm like, "I was spending
time with the Lord today. I was watching
your sermon on YouTube". No, that doesn't count.
- Yea, - You have to actually
spend time with the Lord and have your own
relationship with Him and that's something
for me, personally, I'm not speaking
for everybody. I have to always make a point
sometimes because you know, life is busy. I have to like,
get away for a second and I can see the difference, Michael can see
the difference in me, my kids can see
the difference in me. I just feel full within.
- Yea. - And it's authentic that way. - Do you think in
ministry, especially, it's like you
can get lured into this-- this false sense of reality
which is what I'm in, I'm working in the ministry, I'm about my Father's
business, you know, and the truth is, you can
be as cold as the freezer. You know, you're
missing that relationship and you know, I've heard it for decade after decade,
it's nothing replaces time with the Father.
- So simple - Time with Him, pull up,
be honest and lay it out there and spend time in the Word.
- Yea, - Yea, I mean, Jesus said, "I don't do anything I
don't see Him do". - Right. - That's an incredible
statement. Very piercing, very polarizing statement. "I don't do anything
I don't see Him do". I don't even say anything I
don't hear Him say. - Right. - John 5, actually teaches Jesus
was experiencing Heaven and Earth at the same time. That's what the Greek would read and that He's actually
beholding the Father as He ministers to people. If you get lured into this
comalike sleep in the ministry, you become God's
employee instead of His son and the list of
God's employees... - Oh, that's
good. Yea, God is not-- God is not in the hiring
business. - Yea. He's in the sonship business and so God doesn't
need anymore employees. I can give you
a list of few employees. King Saul,
- Yea, - Balaam was called "the
sorcerer and the prophet" in the same scripture. Judas was an employee. He raised more dead people
that anyone we know, - Right.
- Healed more sick
that anyone we know. So the point is this.
That's not God's way. Now, that is a byproduct
of what Jesse is talking about. I've never met anyone,
well actually, let me start in the negative, and then we will
end in the positive. So, it's possible to
work for the Lord, and not know the Lord.
- Yea, it's true. - It's impossible to love Jesus
and not eventually be anointed, - Right. - with power. It's impossible. If you stay in the pocket--a
good quarterback-- If you stay in the pocket,
- Right, - eventually - There is
protection... - The power of God will come and so Bill Johnson said
it like this. I love this statement.
He says, "The way you become inoculated to something is just by
having a little bit of it. - Uh-huh! - And I don't know any
people group that are more susceptible
to that than churches attendees and people who
work in the ministry. It's so true. If you don't want
to get the flu, they'll tell you just take a little
of flu in this flu shot, right? - Yea. - That's how the
spiritual life is. So Jesus didn't
really come and say, "Do your devotionals", He said "Meet with me". The entire perspective
is different. We think we are pleasing God
like if we-- just get through
that devotional. The whole time He's waiting,
"I want to touch you". - We've checked the box...
- Uh-huh. - And the Father is
like "I want to touch you. I want you to touch Me.
I want to speak to you. I want you to talk back to Me. I want the Scriptures
to illuminate and come alive and actually become
the Bread of Life". So this is the point. Without the Holy Spirit,
it's not available, Gene. He's like--He's
the quickening one. You know, like David wrote,
"Quicken me and I'll run after you". "Draw me and I'll run". Solomon writes
in Song of Solomon, "The king brought
me into his chambers". It's all about
His invitation. So, the Holy Spirit is awakening
a generation right now. - Right.
- It's His reality. It's...How do I say it? The Holy Spirit...Okay, the Scriptures are
more literal that we think. - For example...
- For example, the Bible says, "Noah walked with God". That means he walked with God. The Bible says,
"Adam walked with God". Does it mean, he thought
about God occasionally? Does that mean,
he kind of...No, it means, he walked
with God, hand in hand. God taught him
stuff, stuff he didn't know. He asked the question. There was this organic
relationship that was literal so
when the Scripture says, "Moses lived
in the cloud of Glory" and then the cloud
eventually lived in his face and he began to shine. He took on the nature
of his environment. That's all very literal so here's the question.
Under a lesser covenant, Moses lived in that world and Jesus comes, dies as not only the
second Adam but the last Adam, our bodies become the Tabernacle of God. Experience is not a
recommendation at this point. It's a promise. That's what was difference
about Miss Kuhlman, right? Something about her.
- Yea. - What was "the something"?
It was Him. - Yea. - He was her
friend and she was His. - Well, that's my favorite
quote from Kathryn is, "My dear, He's more
real to me than you are". - Yea, - And that's what we
should all... If there is a thriving
or yearning or something you are drawing
for, it's that. Jesse's dad has this--the book
that belonged to Kathryn, Foxe's Book of Martyrs. They say that this was
the only book she would refer to consistently
outside the Scriptures. And because the martyrdom
of the Church really inspired her to give more. And so she wrote
a letter to the Lord that I've read
with my own eyes and the front--and the
inside of the book, it says "Dearest Jesus" See, to me, Gene, that's like... That's--That's enough
to make me want to cry.
- Yea, yea. - Like the Greats spoke
to Him like little kids. And then she said, "Grant me the privilege to die as one of these
martyrs had died one day". That was the real Kathryn,
- Wow. - I was preaching in Youngstown
and one of her assistants attended the
church I was preaching at and they came at the
meetings and they were just really encouraging to us like,
"Hey, this is what we felt, the same
Holy Spirit flowing". An older man, he was
telling the pastor about one of his
experiences with Kathryn and this one messed me up
so bad, she could be at times, a little difficult to deal
with during the week. She was a feisty woman and
ha!...So sometimes, her staff would be a little
flustered during the week, but before she got
on that platform, they visibly
saw her on all fours on the ground, in that
beautiful white dress, sobbing, repenting to God, asking God to cleanse her
conscience. That man told my friend that
when she got up, there was literally
a puddle of tears on the ground before she walked on
the platform... - Wow. - That's how
I want to be with the Lord. Like a little kid... - So Michael, what do you
do? I mean, your ministry... Let's get real, practical.
- Yes, sure. - I mean, you've kind
of burst on the scene - It's true. and you know, we have mutual
friends, Todd White and you guys and it's marvelous
to see what God is doing through you and being in some of
your meetings, it's like wow, this is cool. God, this is
great what You're doing. But there is a pressure and we kind of talked briefly
about this before we started taping this. There can be a
pressure that comes on you. In fact, before I
get there, I remember Jessica, being with your
dad, in some of these meetings and there was 25,000 people and it was
back there in that little... You probably remember. He had-- like, we called
it a "green room" but it was just draped and
a couple of chairs or whatever and being back there with him, and I remember so many people, so many of these
area pastors were there, telling him how wonderful he was and how he was the
greatest thing ever and you know,
and honestly sometimes, it was a bit nauseating...
- Oh, yea. It's always a little bit
nauseating... - I'm like, really? Okay, yes, you're great and I'm
thinking how do you?... And I remember talking
to your dad. - Yea. How do you stay back here,
listen to all this stuff? There is 25,000
people out there. They are here
because you're here. You know it's
not because of you. They know it's not
because of you but yet, they are here because
of you. How do you not... operate in that pressure?
So now with you, it's different but there can
be a pressure that comes like, "Okay, God, You've got to... You've got to show up again.
Don't leave me out here dry. I don't want to do this
on my own". What do you do,
Michael to keep that place? - Yea, I mean, now
people are coming in, you know, like
from other states if I'm in an area, sometimes flying
in from out of the country and sometimes,
it's to bring a baby to me who has a tumor and
the doctors have given up on and in the natural, that's
enough to cause you to quit. - Yea. - I'm just been...You
want me to be real. - Yea. - That's how
I felt when I started because you dream about seeing
the things that Jesus saw, the apostles and
then, with all of these wonderful Saints of
Old saw that I see their life not as a tease,
but as an invitation - Right, - but until
you get the breakthrough, it starts to tease you so you're hungry and then you
reach this point of no return where you're basically
saying to yourself, "This is either
real or it's not and I don't know if I'm
as special as William Branham, but I'm gonna harass
You until You touch me, Lord. That's what my heart was saying. Like I was not born with
a light over my bassinet. - Yea.
- Okay...But Jesus said that if the woman stays outside
and knocks long enough for Pete's sake, the man would
come out and open the door. - Right. So I said, "Lord,
I don't know where I fit in this whole puzzle,
but I'm coming". I didn't know... that there was an
encounter on the other side that would
change my life forever. I didn't know that with
that encounter will come responsibility.
- Right. - And so the
difficult thing for me was the sicks started coming before I started
seeing the miracles and so I was
turning them away sick and it was breaking
me down. I mean, I was very close to
leaving. I was pastoring, I was just like "Look, what's the point
of pulling the trigger and there is no bullet like I don't want to
send people home to die. This cannot
be the reason that Jesus was wounded and stripped and
gave His live and raised from the dead
and poured out His Spirit. There's got to be more so I took my Bible. I stayed
in the Gospels for 5 years, I didn't leave
the Gospels, rarely and I began to watch the life
of Jesus, not just as a story but as the pattern
Son as the perfect... As the perfect
representation of the Father. Well, that was
helping me but it was also provoking me to
like, frustration. I was like, "Wait,
I am not seeing that". I'm just being
real, "I'm not seeing that". We can christianize
it all we want. - Yea. - But I wasn't seeing it. And I don't think
that was a lack of faith. It was truth, I
wasn't seeing it. And I was like, "Well, God,
it either Your fault of mine". I told Him that and then... And then I
got to my senses and I go, "Well, that's
probably not Yours". - Yea! Ha ha... - So I said, "Okay",
in my heart I said, "I'm coming and if I have to die
trying, I'm coming Lord". She'll tell you.
- Yea. - It was radical. - How was it radical, Jess? - During that
time, he would go... I think our oldest was just a
baby at the time so, it's like, "I just
have to get alone with God" because at the time
too, we were also traveling in the crusades with my dad so
it was really kind of hard because we were seeing
miracles there but it was not happening the way
we were hoping in our own lives so, he just went in
that prayer closet and started getting alone
with Jesus. - For days... and I didn't
see him but I understood. I was like, "You do what
you need to do" because it was discouraging
me as well that these things were not
happening because I knew that God had called us to see
these things also so I was like,
"Do what you need to do, go to that prayer closet" so he would go...I think
it was almost like a year of our lives that we... - It was 2...
- 2 years, yea and... - Well, I had these words over
my life from her dad from when I was a boy.
- Yea "That you will
carry this anointing and you'll win
more souls than I did" and I was like, "I can't even
get a flu healed".
- Yea. - Do you know?
- Sure. - The first
time I did "street ministry", it's so funny... I was so afraid,
I went to Laguna Beach. I mean, you want to find
heathens, go to Laguna Beach, I mean, they are
everywhere. I went, I saw an old man, I said,
"Okay, he's got to be nice. He won't scream at
me if I tell him about Jesus". I stalked him like
I was doing reconnaissance for like an hour
[Laughs] and he was seated on a hill and I go,, "Okay,
I'm gonna go now, Lord" and I didn't go. "I'll go
in a minute". I didn't go. Finally I went to pull
the Four Spiritual Laws book out of my back pocket. Before I can get
the track to him, he tried to lead me
to Jesus and gave me a track. I couldn't even find the lost, let alone get them saved. It was bad but I kept digging
and I stayed with the Lord and by His grace, He
constantly caused me to believe that there was a
encounter coming. - Yea. - A real encounter. - So this is when you're
pulling yourself away into your
prayer closet. - Yea. So then He touched
me, long story short and then the sicks started
to come in even more. - So He touched you in your
closet? Or He touched you... - Well, He touched me after
2 years in my prayer closet. I got invited to a Lutheran
church in Westport, Connecticut because the pastor was
a member at a golf course called Winged Foot where
they played the US open and I had a golf background
so I wanted to go and play and I went with Bruce
Hughes, the pianist, he took me up
there, his son Austin and the pastor was a member there
and when we started walking, down that fairway,
I remember thinking-- well he's
probably gonna watch this, I thought, "This guy is
old"...Older and why can't I keep up
with him while he's walking? Because I
was in a good shape, - Sure and he turns to me
about 13 holes and he goes, "Did you know I was paralyzed"? And I thought,
"What"? He goes "Yea. I went to one of your
father-in-law's meetings"... He's a Lutheran,
pastor. He said, "I went to your
father-in-law's meetings, I had a stroke 21 days prior, the Lord spoke
to me in the hospital. In 21 days, I will heal you". Benny came on the
screen, "This is Your Day". He said, "I knew I was supposed
to get to the Baltimore crusade. I went with my braces,
we didn't know anybody. Some lady walked
up to me and said, "Hey, sit on the front row but you can't have your
braces in the front row". He said, "Well, if I don't
have my cane and my walker, I'm paralyzed". His whole left side. She said, "Sorry,
if you want to sit here, you can't have that here". So he's sitting there now not
knowing how he's gonna move if he has to, he's
telling me the story and when he did, right
there on the golf course, it was like the finger
of God tapped this dam that had been
building up for years. Hunger, wanting
the Lord to touch me. He said, "Did you
know I was healed"? When he said
that, man, something
stirred in me... I could feel
the presence of God on the
golf course... ♪♪
