Hunt for my Brothers Killer: Paul Stansby

where were you on that fatal day I'd gone to the petrol station my mum's called me up they they got him they got him [Music] this was in the peak traffic yeah this happened my brother's gone down to go and get drugs from this guy they come down four or three of them three of them come down my brother was walking backwards they're on the road and he had tripped on the curb going backwards as soon as he went down the guy come in stabbed him then they all ran off one step away in a lower stomach they bled in so he bled internally he bled internally he killed my brother you killed the man that made me who I am you're dead yeah you are 100 Dead with our doubt do you managed to get hold of any of these Lads before they got Nick so um [Applause] [Music] oh welcome to the show mate appreciate you having me on yeah mate um mate some Journey you got here whenever five hours to get here yeah left at seven this morning quality let's roll all the way back where did you grow up and why have you become such a big advocate for knife crime all this started from um well I'll start where I'm from so I was born in um West London I grew up in Hounslow and feltham area um didn't have the best of childhoods I grew up in women's refuges and stuff like my dad was a bit handy with me mum and uh luckily I was young enough not to have uh remembered a lot of it but it definitely paid a part in how I grew up do you know what I mean um more it was never I never ever saw the physical side of it but I heard it you know we're always in the next room and you know when you when you're growing up I guess as an adult you just assume that young children would never remember or understand what they're doing um but it truly did have an effect um you know without a doubt you know um born with a lot of anger you know not understanding why or what no one explained nothing you know and when you're not explained anything your mind is left to try and figure out why your dad would eat your mum you know I I could never understand it even still today you know um when I got older the skipping like a lot of years um I asked him and he said that he'd made a lot of mistakes and he wish he never done it and he's not that person no more but I'll go back to the beginning before we get into that so I remember one one day my my dad got up and went to work he used to drive the London buses double double red you know the double deck of red buses he used to drive them and he'd gone out to work and uh we literally my mum would grab the bag said we're going we need to go now and it was like a mass Rush and then we left the police were there we got loaded into a car and then we got took off to this place where we were all living in one room and uh we had a shared bathroom with like 387 women no men so I grew up I grew up around women all women that had been beaten and abused and it's confusing but I had so much fun in there because I was the like I had I got white hair you know like pure white hair I don't know where this beard comes from yeah I really haven't got a clue but my hair is pure white yeah I'm literally a spit of my dad yeah yeah he's got white hair white bit look like Santa Claus it's a skinnier version you know and um I've gone in now I'd curly blonde Locs I don't know whether you've seen a picture of my son and my daughters they're like white blonde curly locks you know and my hair was exactly the same blue eyes and all the women in there they love me they was like I wish he was my son and I I had so much attention you know what I mean from all these other people how old were you when you went there um I was about four years old when I went into the first women's refuge and then I was there right away through various different ones because every time we'd go somewhere my dad would find out where we was turn up and we'd go we'd get moved somewhere else I've been to multiple schools couldn't settle down because of how many times I'd been I've been over 100 Schools I know a lot of people think that's that's a joke that's ridiculous but when you're in protective custody like under the control of like the police to make sure that you know you you your mum ain't getting beaten they will move you instantly one time I was in a school for two weeks and then we moved and I was I was in another school you know it was almost pointless going to school were you moving around the country were you moving around South West London all over all over I've lived in York lived like Stone Market it we ended up settling in felixstowe because he just give up in the end he just gave up so what was your old man doing he found out where you live and then come and knock it on the doors wanting to see you or being abusive to your mum it was a bit of both it was it was kind of a control thing you know it was like a dominating you know you get them alpha males that want to dominate and the only thing they can dominate is a woman so it was kind of like he'd come down and when he'd come down he never it didn't look like he'd come down for her but it looked like he wanted a her by taking us away yeah okay so he wanted us so this one time we were standing on a freeway and waiting for a bus and my dad spotted us he was just driving by and freakingly he's he stopped on the side of the road and he grabbed me picked me up and said if you want to see him again contact contact me and you start walking off with me and then I started getting up the road and I would just remember staring back at my mum whilst I was over his shoulder like he was he hold me so I was held on to him like a monkey do you know what I mean so he he's head the back of his head and I my face was the same direction you know so as he's walking away my mum and my sisters were getting smaller and smaller and I just thought I'm never going to see them again that's it like this man is my dad and I love him but he's going to take me he's I'm going now I'm never going to see my sisters or my brother ever again did you ever did you ever see your old man beat your mum no no but I saw the damages after yeah like that go into the kitchen or something and they'd be all the shouting smashing so I saw if I went into the kitchen there'd be glass smashed on the floor and I said get out you're gonna you know don't stand in it so automatically you look down at the floor there's glass everywhere you know and you see all that a lot a hole in the door you know mum's got split lip a bit of a red face bruises on her neck like you know the red bruises that you get like them on their neck and that and then I remember this one time it was like I can I can still see what they were wearing I still see the the layout of the house in that lot I must have been about five and I don't know how they ended up in the house together but they were in the house together and my mum was in the kitchen she was ironing and uh my dad was in there and they were shouting and I was like pacing I remember I was like sweating I was pacing I was thinking I've got oh God do something I've got to do something and the next thing you know you heard a massive Bang and then it all went quiet and he comes walking out of the kitchen calm as anything his lip was split down there and there was blood coming down his face he said I'll see you all soon I've got to go and then just walked out and then my mum's like breathing heavy and then she was standing there I went in you're right she was like get out get out but I remember she had a iron in her hand so she smacked him in her face with the iron and it stopped him because I don't think she'd ever like retaliated before which made him film I guess more powerful as a man when you're trying to dominate yourself and uh yeah she smacked him in the mouth of an iron how many years was it do you reckon as you were growing up that you then realized hold on I need to stop this I need to do something about this I need to go and find my old man and get a word of him so it was a long a long time there was there was this one time um because my family still live in London and we used to go up and see them a fair bit I just passed my test I was uh I was 17 when I passed um and I'd afford a Ryan a white one and that was I was really proud of it I paid it off in the garage like they you know when you used to be able to give them cash every week and then that was so I got this Orion it cost me like 1500 quid or whatever it was and I was really proud of myself and we went up London showed a family in that and uh I drove past the space and it seemed familiar I was wrong my mom up and said mum I'm over this this place I remember this church I said where is it she said your dad lives around the corner and I said where abouts so I drove around to his house and I wanted to go knock on the door and just be like what Dad because as much as my dad was the way he was with my mum I know that's like that anger was to my mum it wasn't to us so I thought I always wanted a male figure my mum got married again he was a horrible man he didn't like me because I was a spitting image of me Dad I'll get to that and um so I wanted I I yearned for my dad I wanted to know what it would be like to have all my friends had dads you wanted that fatherly figure I wanted someone that could show me how to be a man yeah you know and that was like that's what drove me I wanted to not wanted to know but I was too afraid to knock on the door so I wrote this letter um a bit of paper in the car I wrote a letter and I shouldn't have read it I shouldn't have read it and uh it's just a letter saying to Paul yeah to Paul stands be because his name is Paul stansby as well and um I didn't even call him dad I had no reason not to call him that he never he never didn't earn the role he never done anything to me to stop me from calling him Dad I just wanted to hurt him but I don't know why because he never hurt me hurt my mum emotionally that is affects you right but for me I still wanted to know who he was and why you know why did you do that like I didn't understand why you'd want to hurt the woman that mothered your children you know you married her I've heard you say you love her why'd you punch her face in when you were angry when something didn't go all your way why would you punch her face in did you get to the bottom of that like I said earlier on when he said you know I saw him again we would and I asked him the question and he said I'm not that person no more what I've done in the past I'm I am sorry for it you know so he owned up to it which I was shocked with you know there was no lie it was straight talk it was man to man real talk and he owned up to it but this time I wrote this letter and I posted it in the door but I posted it in the neighbor's door and I didn't realize I thought that was his house and uh it's quite upholstery you know my dad's got some got some money he's quite high up at BT and stuff like that he's he's a he's a hard-working man it's still about today yeah yeah yeah yeah and um years later I left I left but I didn't feel like I was satisfied I didn't feel like I'd got one up I didn't feel like anything I just felt like he needed to hear my anger first for a sec but I didn't realize how much it was going to damage him you know before you realize trauma yeah the things you do is in Act of you being traumatized and you don't realize it and then you don't realize that your actions have consequences for other people that feel like that too and it's only now I understand that I don't know whether it's maturity I don't know whether it's my age but I know that now I am sorry for that later you understand what'd you put in that letter I just told him he was horrible man he um shouldn't have punched up mum you should have been a better dad he had some more kids as well so that made me angry too and he was really good with him really he's really good with him like so good so as you're growing up then how did it affect your life at school yeah like I said to you I've been at so many different schools listen I've never had a friend until I got like into my teenage years you know when you get into these primary schools and and middle schools because london-wise you have primary middle and then upper like down in the coast where I live now you just got primary school and upper school yeah you know so like the primary school and middle school was hard made I didn't want to go I couldn't connect with any adults because I thought all adults were the same specially the male ones you know it was like God if I if I say anything to him yeah he's gonna whack me and that's how I that's how I saw men do you know what I mean and then so so for me I wasn't very confident around men I wasn't scared of them I was wary and I'm not not scared of them because I'm a hard guy believe me now I would rather walk away than choose violence but in the past growing up violence was my number one and that's not me stating yeah that I'm hard and I know you'll probably get comments on there going I'd own him I'd bully him in my ends and stuff like I'll get it all the time oh he thinks he looks hard because he's got tattoos on his face there's a reason why I look like this you know and it it's it's not because I'm an odd guy because I'm not I can have a route but I'm not a hard man do you know what I mean so you you you you grow up not understanding what a male's role is in life I know what a woman's role is you know my mum was a protector yeah she was a provider my mum went hungry so we could eat she had holes in her clothes so we had clothes do you know what I mean she she was the prettiest woman like men I'd see men falling all over her do not mean trying to be with her but she didn't want him she was guarded she was she didn't want another man you know so what was your what was your world like after leaving school what path did you take a crime crime big crime what sort of crime gun crime knife crime you know I I fought the hand-to-hand with police that I've you know we've had I've had scraps of police and a bit of football violence um collecting I've done all all sorts car theft all sorts and where did that stem from did that stem from like your 15 16 17s or did that stem a little bit later so I I yeah so my mum ended up meeting this a new guy yeah um this guy was a horrible man horrible horrible man but I think mum went with him because she thought my dad would be scared of him right okay but I've never seen my dad fear nobody yeah nobody there's no man that can scare my dad none but he was a he's a he's a soft guy he's a kind guy but he's an honorable guy do you understand what I'm totally understand but normally what happens is they've been traumatized as a kid I believe so and that's why they are out to protect themselves big hard front but deep down their little kid inside but not an open man no he's not an open man so I I don't know yeah you know I don't know and I wish I'd knew more about because trauma affects everybody there's not a single person in this world that hasn't got trauma and because of that people don't understand that and because of that we've got suicide we've got you know self-harming we've got overdoses drugs we've got it all because men choose not to see the real effects of what's happening to them trauma you know or men don't want to talk about it 100 100 thing yeah 100 you know and uh so my mom met this horrible Geezer and because I looked like my dad he hated me and where were you based then when your mum met him were you a Sudbury we was in a women's refuge in Sudbury Sudbury North London uh or Sunbury well you'd call it Sunbury but it's sub it was Sudbury okay yeah so Sunbury is North London Sunbury is sort of Southwest and Sudbury I think it's more North now I grew up in Sudbury okay yeah which is next to great cornard right okay which is like um I think it comes under Essex right okay I think it falls under so you've been moving around all these schools it's hard to meet mates when you're moving in and out of school you're thinking old on me I've got no Community around me or a bunch of boys to ever laugh with or whatever you you must have felt really isolated at times mate we we grew up yeah there was me my brother and my two sisters they were my friends so anyone outside of that we didn't let in yeah and because of that we grow up I can see the effects of that with my sisters because with my sisters they struggled to have a group of friends because if like them two go out for lunch or something and she's not invited she feels like they've left me yeah do you understand what I mean I see it they don't and I say to them you really struggle with having friends you know what I mean and I see it and I try and talk to him but they're like no you know and they'll end up arguing and falling out of them me I've got I've Got Friends falling out all over the place you know I've got Associates all over the place you know I really can connect with people now you know I want to go back to the crime when did the crime start so when my mum I took years of abuse off this Giza my mom was with abuses and physical abuse mental yes both okay both both at what age were you when you were getting physically appeared by this new so-called not step dad but all your mum's fella I reckon I was about seven eight years old seven eight years old okay and we we grew up with him in in and out of women's refuges and he when we'd be moving if we needed a move my mum would go back into the women's Refuge lead rehouses us he'd then come along later on so every time they'd split up they were on off on off and off yeah and um he come with us all the time and he absolutely destroyed me mate destroyed me he's the pin my legs over my head until I couldn't breathe no more he used to like pick me up slam me on the floor because he used to be into wrestling and all that like and he wanted to play fight with me but everything that he'd done to me was actual like physical assault you know like he really twisted me up mate and he was six foot six for three yeah big guy big unit guy not muscle fat you know what I mean but he was a he was a stocky guy yeah and um how many years was it she was with him until she split and then you went hold on man I want to get my own back did you ever think I want to get mine back oh yeah yeah how old were you when were you thinking that not far off when my mom got with him okay you know I snuck into the room I was going to end him I was I was a young kid and I stuck into the room when he was asleep I figured out the floor plan everything but I went in there yeah I went in there to smack him over the head and just end him whilst he was asleep I figured out the floor plan in my mum's house yeah right the way around all the squeaky floorboards everything I worked my way around the bed yeah and I was right there where he was asleep and I was gonna I was gonna smash him over the edge and then just run back into my bedroom like it never happened and um I was like shaking and he rolled over he rolled over it sounds funny but he farted but whatever it was and I just freaked out and ran out yeah because I thought he's gonna catch me and if he catches me yeah I'm not going to be quick enough to end because if I hit him and I don't get him right he's gonna wake up and then I'm I'm in for it yeah I wish I'd have done it there now I'm glad I didn't with what I know now do you know what I mean yeah um but at that time probably abusive to be thinking that at the age of nine listen this this was right away throughout I had many times I thought to myself I'm just gonna I'm gonna go and do those days yeah what age did he leave I was about I was about 11 when he left okay tell me your route tell me your route 15 16 18 19 20 21 of the crime where did the crime start what did the crime lead on to so when he'd left yeah um I was now the man of the house my brother had moved out he well he was in and out of prison so I was now the man of the house and I took that role very seriously even as 11 years old I was like I need to protect I plotted my house up not my house my mum's house I plotted my childhood home up I had screwdrivers next to the bed I had one above the door frame I had everything in case he come back yeah so now I'm starting to get this thing and then of course my mum's like you're the man of the house now so now I've got that you know when you start getting that I'm 11 but I feel like I'm a 20 stone Warrior do you know because I've been led to believe that and then you start talking these are my boys yeah and my brother was a bit of a face so then my role models I'm looking up to are violent physical men you know so then they're not getting bullied they're not getting this six foot odd guy twisting their legs up and bending them up you know what I mean I'm gonna be like these so it started I got in my first fight I won it apparently this boy never cries ever and I made him cry and at that time I was rushed mate I was I was buzzing and everyone started talking about it and I was like this is me this is what I need to be so this guy when he comes back I'll be ready for him you know so I started it was I started like having fights all the time like I got expelled from school I punched a teacher you know I mean and it's all stuff that I should never have done and normally I'll apologize to everyone that I physically hurt but that teacher deserved a smack in the mouth that day and if he ever watches this I hope I hope he knows that I'm not sorry for doing that what's his name um Mr um I was a science teacher I can't even remember his name you know I won't even there long enough but he grabbed me around the back of the neck and that reminded me of an incident yeah so I just turned around and smacked him in the mouth and um I saw him I saw him about 10 15 years later at Tesco's car park did he clock her oh yeah listen I I was driving um a lamb over Discovery at the time quite a new one and I'd parked right out the way so no other cars could open up and and uh Dent the car and this little Clio was driving around banged up Little Cleo driving around parked right next to me the whole car park this guy parks next to me yeah and he gets out the car and I'm thinking this guy's just strange yeah and he can walk across and I was like Tim so as he's coming around the front I'll get out my car and I slam the door so he turns and looks at me yeah because he turned around and said to me he goes you're gonna be nothing and the only thing you're gonna have is a cell for the rest of your life so I've got out slammed the door so he turns around and looks I looked at him he spotted me I've looked at my car looked back at him I looked at his car and I went not about prison cell is it he turned around with his wife got back in his car and left that that was all I needed I just needed to be like I told you do you know what I mean I told you I rolled back a little bit you said your brother got banged up what do you get banged up for so he was fighting a lot of his stuff was fighting driving on a like no license stuff like that you know um but most of his stuff is was and you mentioned football violence what team what team oh there was nothing specific mate like wherever I'd move to I'd move every sort of three odd years you know what I mean and I'd I'd stumble across I was never with a firm and like I'm I'm not a visible known one I was just if it was kicking off I wanted to get involved you know what I mean and it was like whoever was swinging I was jumping in with you know it was there was no one Pacific obviously you know the odd the the known ones and it was like you look up to them as well and you just think to yourself I need to be more like them it's amazing isn't it when you haven't got a mentor or role model you don't know where you're going you don't know where you're going because what was your life like at 18 or 25 so I'll make mess it's a mess like I've always had a job I've always worked and I worked on building sites from a young age I left school early joined on the I I knew this Irish guy and uh he was like you're looking for work and this was before tickets and everything what year were you talking here I was I was about 15. so in the united in the 90s yeah yeah okay uh so I worked for an Irish guy called Tony and uh I was working for carts construction as a subby and uh Barnes construction I was like I just got subbed out to these guys and I loved it I loved it I didn't like it in the winter though I didn't like building work in the winter so I was doing that I was doing a bit of groundworks and stuff like that and I was around men and it was like that was like I used to love going to work because I was around people that I knew had problems too yeah so when we were all at work we was just Lads having a laugh and you know you'd see someone up on a scaffold and they'd whistle you and they've got the trousers around their ankles and they're doing a helicopter and stuff you know and you're like oh mate so you're carrying a wheelbarrow concrete next thing it's tipped over we're just laughing you know but other than that work was the only stability I had I was with some horrible women mate horrible women and I think what it was was how were you around women um I'm I'm I I was a very angry person yeah yeah and I'm I'm I've never been physical with a woman I've never been abusive to a woman but if they was to argue me I'd argue back and like I am way way beyond that now if if my misses she she's calm as anything like that she's here today yeah she she does not argue at all yeah so like we'll go I'm not happy with that babe and she'll go all right I'm like all right cool yeah cool and that's it honestly it really is where before I'd be like yeah I'd want to have an argument you know just so I could go out yeah yeah so so like if I wanted a guy my friends were going out I was with an older woman yeah she wouldn't let him go out she wouldn't let me get out of play yeah I mean she wouldn't let me get out of play so I and it was like um you'd rather have an argument so you can go right see you later I'll see you in a couple of days yeah yeah because older women they kick you out yeah they don't tell you to stay like a younger girl will stand in front of the door and give you loads of grief you're not getting out you're staying here and you're gonna argue with me an older woman would boot you out yeah old school yeah so tell me what was the what was the abuse like for you were you abusing yourself drugs drink no no okay drink drink I used to drink a lot um not alcoholic status like I'd just drink through today just like most people and and like at weekends I'd get ratted you know what I mean but drugs I've never tried any drugs never drugs never smoked never nothing my brother he used to do drugs and my sister they'd smoke weed and stuff but me I was I didn't go anywhere near drugs because the people that were around me I had a lot of people around me that that done drugs like my brother was a very heavy drug taker because he needed to run away from his demons and I believe when he was doing drugs now you've got to remember my brother was my dad he was my he was my everything how many years older was he than you um ten okay ten okay so so for now I think he's about seven seven eight years older than me yeah but this guy was so grown do you know what I mean he he I've never known him to be a kid I've always known him to be a man you know what I mean fashion Wicked everyone loved him he was feared and he was loved all at the same time you know and um he was a party animal we had decks he played dexes he was like mixing up in clubs and you'd walk down the street and people would just Bib and wave and they'd stop right Dean and he's like oh like hey all the time and uh I loved it I absolutely loved it and he was everything to me like we we didn't always get on you know we'd be because we were both Alphas you know we had that like that you you're pissing me off and I'll be like you're pissing me off do you know what I mean but never not once not once did we ever touch each other we didn't grab each other we didn't nothing we'd be like yeah and then walk away and then we didn't speak for like a couple of months or whatever and then we'd see each other again and it would be like nothing happened do you know what I mean but if it wasn't for him yeah which I didn't start connecting with him until I was in my teens that I started becoming violent yeah yeah and then my brother was like that's my little brother yeah okay do you know what I mean I I was noticed more because he was proud of me being a violent man my mum was proud of me being getting known yeah they're my boys but like Peggy and Phil Mitchells you know what I mean like these are my boys you know or if someone said something to my mum she'd turn around and say um do you know where my boys are yeah you know and and the more that me and my brother like if if I ever went for a scrap he'd always be there and vice versa but we he'd never do two on one you know if there was another person there my brother would take care I'd do my own things you know what I mean and it was kind of like that we was an unfair guys were you were you looking for fights um when I was at school yeah yes yeah yes I was I wanted to protect people and there's some people at school that if someone else had started on them they'd come and say Paul they're giving me grief and I'd I'd always look after the weaker person um I remember this one guy he he's died now he was called Michael a guy he was such a nice kid and uh there was this boy picking on him and he come running over to me because like I wasn't an odd guy at school but I definitely have a Rouser like sometimes when if when you're at school I'd never like if if the artist guy wanted to have a go I'd have a go even if I knew I was going to lose I'd have a go but it always played on their mind that they knew that they'd have a scrap off for me where when you sometimes the hardest person in school would whack someone a lot of weak people to make their name yeah so other people would be like oh yeah you like I heard you had a fight and then you'll know you're having a fight and all of a sudden you become the hardest person in the school when all you've done is whack people that don't fight back yeah so I was the one that they didn't whack because they knew that they'd get it back and it would be a good one because I wouldn't give up you know I've had a six foot odd Geezer tearing into me for years like a man like ain't no kid at school is going to be out to do any anything to me yeah that I ain't gonna be able to come back for if I could if I could come back to stand up still like it'd do me the the Geezer would twist me up and hurt me and I'd still Stand Tall still stand there like looking up at him lip shivering just staring at him like you know and he'd say what are you looking at and he'd pushed my head down again like and I'd stand back up and I'd stand there with my arms beside myself my fists tense you know what I mean I'll be standing there just yeah you know and he didn't like it he didn't like it have you met that fella since been an adult so it's a weird one right so I was I was in a house and uh I saw this car go by and I always vowed I was going to shoot this geyser when I saw him because he was a football nut yeah and I vowed to myself if I ever see him I must shoot him yeah I'm gonna shoot him in the body I'm gonna shoot him in the legs yeah because he tormented me with football he'd stand me in a goal kick balls in my face like full Pelt you know I'd have to save him if every goal that went in I was I was grounded another day so I had to save all these balls one time he smacked me with a ball I've got concussion and everything and I said I'm going to take away what he loves yeah cause he took away my childhood he took away my childhood and I said one I'm gonna shoot him and uh I knew it in my head I was going to and I'll tell you what this car drive around and I was standing in the front garden doing um doing stuff in the garden on a car this car came around I saw him my heart sunk yeah because this Geezer looked like him yeah my heart sunk and my belly started going and we had never felt that before and at this time I was already an established I was established you know I was like fighting all the time yeah so I was ready for a tear-up and he come round and it was like I was a kid again I stood there like trying to be tough and I froze I froze the first time I've ever froze in my life I froze I didn't know what to do and it's gone past and he smiled and I just nodded at him and he drove away and then he went round the block and come back and pulled up and goes are you all right and he got out the car and I I swear he was bigger than that when I was a kid I swear he was a monster but now he's just a fat bloke standing in front of me and I thought I had a screwdriver in my hand I thought I'd just stick him in the neck quick and then I heard loads of kids running around outside and I was like I can't let them see that or was I just making excuses to not do it you know what I mean because I don't I don't put myself I don't portray myself as as a somebody yeah but I just don't give up you know and I thought I'd stick him in the neck and then I heard the kids in that lot and he um I had a doggy a little puppy it was my brother's used to breed dogs and he'd give me one and uh he goes is that yours and I went yeah and he went what's his name I said Rasta and he goes is it for sale and I went yeah and he goes how much I went 600 Quid he goes pulled 600 quit out of his bucket give it to me and he took the dog and I was like it's gone he took the dog yeah give me the money and he had the dog yeah and he was with another Geezer as well and uh yeah tattoos on his arms like he had it all on his arms and that a lot and he took the dog and my brother come around and goes where's roster I went Andrew's got him he goes what do you mean Andrew's got him they said Andrew's got him he gave me 600 Quid for it and he goes if my brother went mental he went mental he goes I gave you that dog and you sold it he wanted the dog himself and he'd give it to me because you know I'm his little brother and he took it and I don't know why I sold it to him I didn't want to sell it to him but I don't know something was I just let him take it and I and and now he would never be able to do that now if he turned up now it's on yeah but like then I just went back to being a kid again and I don't understand what happened to me I still can't explain it now I can't explain like because that's not me yeah that's not me there's no way that man can bully me no more that's the fear of freezing oh mate I don't know what I just froze the only person that's ever done it I froze I wouldn't freeze now tell me your relationship with your brother Dean over the years coming into your 30s and stuff oh he was the man yeah he was the man mate so my brother was dressed he always had likes you know Ralph Lauren's shirt sound like what I sell shirts you know when they would have been Sherman once he had them he had James on dreads Brothers mixer AC had dreads and that lot and uh he was a short man yeah short man but powerful man you know he had presents proper alpha male you wouldn't think that for a [ __ ] light you know he was he was a very small man but a powerful powerful man and uh I wanted to look like him so I was like 11 15 18 wearing shirts and people were looking at me like everyone else is wearing t-shirts and shorts and vests I'm I'm in baking sun and a Ralph Lauren shirt and a pair of trousers you know like we used to get a Ralph Lauren shirts knock off because yeah the docs had them all into the handball was just again can't take him and then we'd be buying them all for like nothing you know so yeah I had that and yeah he was just he was just everything you know my brothers I walked down the road I feel like a king because he was everyone everyone knew him everyone knew him and anyone that was a somebody that went up against me brother lost yeah they lost everyone spoke about him you know in the 90s he was he was a king he was powerful and then you know it it taught me out of shave not that I was any good now I mean I had whiskers anytime I said to me he goes come with me I went what he goes come on come up I went up to a bathroom put some shaving foam in his hand I went what's that for so don't put it in my face because I'm gonna put it on your face he goes come here I'm going to teach you how to shave I was like I don't need a shave he goes look at his cat whiskers and he pulled him because I made my eyes water I pulled him he's like this pulled him as well so we said now he goes no he goes no he goes boom you look stupid let me let me teach you so he taught me how to shave never he'd never cut me nothing like I never cut like the way he told me I never cut myself shaved you know some people they cut itself never ever like I was him tell me tell me the years leading up to that horrific day in 2017. so my brother um was in Colchester and he had a it had a scrap with um he was out with some friends and uh uh dismissed mixed race boy he'd got targeted by a couple of lads and uh it uh they started smacking them out my brother's come out of the club saw him on the floor my brother's gone out there weighed these two guys in and um another the other guy ran off um but it was all caught on CCTV and uh because of that he went to jail for it he got three years done a year and a half but whilst he was in there he's misses finished with him and all that she couldn't do it she couldn't wait um so he was all upset and uh he was a party animal raver you know he said he'd done decks done festivals done all of that he's popped some pills smoke some weed hash at the time it was he had done hash and all that long and um he was sharing a sale with a geezer and the Giza was a crackhead and my brother's upstairs crying and uh he told me this because I said to him like like why did what made you start like when was your first time and he told me and a little heart heart we had once when we were both homeless and uh he said this Geezer in my cell was doing some crack and he said this will help you stop the pain try something because Nana I'm not doing that and uh geez was going on and on and my brother jumped up grabbed him and he goes Dean I promise you it's going to help you it'll help you sleep tonight so my brother did it and uh he said from that point on he was lost he said the buzz was so intense that it made him feel like he was back in the womb he said he just he the way he described it to me I got a Goosebumps he said he goes Paul he goes and he closed his eyes he goes it was like I was just back in a womb and he goes oh so warm and I just I just rolled up on the bed and I went to sleep and I was just looking at him and I could see his body and I could see how he surrendered to this the most powerful man that I know had surrendered to this tiny little piece of crack and he just he was gone you could see me you can see him that whole feeling that you had her had goosebumps because I felt it without doing the drug I felt it and I understand why he what he was chasing from that point on but I didn't understand the addiction what year what year was he in Nick um roughly roughly I couldn't tell I I suffer with number displaces so like dates and stuff it's really hard to throw out there you know so I don't want to get that wrong so when you come back out then where were you on that fatal day I was at work to own I was tattooing well I'll tell you it was the strangest thing man like like my mate had finished work yeah it had a stressful day he um I'd had a fairly good day at work do you know what I mean it was like I had some good people in it was a bit of a buzz you know I was I was like looking forward to going home maybe bird you're not mean like it's going to chill out with her I think we were gonna go out that night somewhere I don't know a Colchester or something and uh I was I was tattooing this girl my mate had a really bad day and he's rung me up and he's gone oh I've had a day like it's really bad I said mate just chill out go home again can't have a bath or something you know what I mean he's he's got he goes well I'm again he goes I don't want to talk I said Ryan then he sends me a photograph of um the bridge where he goes home the bus goes police everywhere tape cornered off in that lot and he goes great just my luck he goes he goes look at all of this slot and I said why what's going on there he's gone are probably another crackhead's been killed or something yeah and I was like I was like I said that's mad see what you can find out yeah and then easy goes and then he he goes on now it's going to take me even longer to get him so I've got to go around the long way and uh I was like all right but before that happened before he rung me up and told me I was towering this lady yeah and at the exact time my brother was stabbed yeah I had this horrible pain yeah honestly I had this horrible pain like it happened to me yeah I broke out in this sweat I felt like I was gonna pass out the lady turned around and say she said do you want a minute I said please and for about 15 minutes I was just my I was just hot sweat sweating I was shaking I didn't know why and then I had a can of drink drunk this can of drink fizzy to try and get my because I thought it might be my sugars or something but this pain was horrendous but it was like up here do you know what I mean like in this area it was up here and then we just cracked back on tattooing away carried on I went to um after work didn't think nothing of it he's gone home never heard that it was my brother or nothing I went uh I went again to see my daughter because I got I got a child with another woman another horrible woman and uh I dropped her off I'd gone to the petrol station my mum's called me up and you never heard a sound like that before never heard a sound like that before she's screaming down the phone crying screaming deep weird feeling they got him they got him my baby they've got him so what are you going on so calm down she was I'm in the petrol station the guy's looking at me like get off your phone I'm like looking at him like wait a minute yeah and he's like she goes he's dead he's dead I went who's dead she went Dean's dead they've got him and I went what do you mean I said how do you know she goes to the police are here and she's screaming I hear the house is being smashed up I hear everything get out of my house get out of my house baby they got him they got him so then I'd go all right I'm coming I'm coming yeah I said don't kick him out I need to speak to him yeah I'll get in the car kind of course petrol station the guys on the monitor can you please get off your phone he was Indian can you please Welsh yeah he goes get off your foot my mate could do wicked accents get off your phone and I was like I was like oh God you know I mean I got to my van I'm like I said Mom I'll be there in a minute she goes hurry hurry and I was like I am I've rung up my misses and I went babe I'm getting at my mom's Dean's dead she's like what do you mean I'm like I don't know I don't know whether it's true I think I don't I don't know I don't know nothing and she's like all right let me know I was like all right put the phone down I rang up Jamie and I went Jamie who was it that got killed today yeah and she he went I don't know I said I think it's Dean I think it's Dean he's like you're joking me I said no I said oh I'm getting my mum's now I'll let you know and then I hung up the phone and I'm driving I don't know what I'm doing I'm panicking I could feel my chest as you being being so I'm driving towards the motorway and like as I'm driving towards the motorway I didn't know what to do so I just I just grabbing all the steel walls just grabbing it and I started screaming like top of ah like screaming I nearly passed out I was driving I was like I started getting like all over and I'd calm myself down I've got myself right and then from this point on I'm now in game mode like it's not sure if it's reality or whether a dream yeah and it's not a good one yeah so I'm on my way to my mum's it's about a 15 minute drive from Ipswich to felixstowe I turn up there's no police cars outside yeah so I'm like and my mum just gone nuts or something I walked in there's two coppers standing in there they've looked at me and one of the coppers knew me from a child because they've her and her husband have nicked me and my brother for years for all sorts of violence and stuff lovely lady though lovely lady because sometimes when they nicked us they just dropped us home yeah do you know what I mean you're coming with us getting a car and they took us home they were decent cops not the horrible ones you know and uh I looked at her and now they're like worried because like I've gone to police and stuff do you know what I mean and and staring at him and the other geezers don't know who we are there's like a man and a woman only the woman knew us but a man didn't and I've looked at him because he's the man right so I've looked at him but she knows that I'm talking to her and I went is it true and he's like blase you know like yeah it's true I said I'm not talking to you and she goes Paul it's true I said how do you know she she went she went it's him and I went I was definitely him because she had an emotional attachment to him she should send us growing up do I mean she nicked us for years so she'd seen how we were progressing we've been in her life most of her career you know and we was always nice to her and now her husband Scott real nice guy you know when did you find out actually why it was attacked when he was attacked what reasons I have 10 at night yeah after 10 at night determined well I'll say out of 10 tonight listen they turned up to my mum's house 10 at night my brother was killed at half past five quarter six so he stabbed that R5 quarter six in Dayton traffic yeah he was going to score yeah I found out all of this the next day yeah in the morning yeah so basically my brother used to get his drugs he was a functioning drug addict yeah he'd have a job he'd be out of work but he'd done so much crack over his time he needed to stay on it to be able to just get by his date yeah if he weren't on it he's he was he was mad you could see he was like hurting he had a lot of damage to him do you know what I mean I I was a baby when all this stuff happened to me he was grown like 10 years more than me grown so he experienced it a different way to me that affected him more mentally than me because he could never understand like if someone done something it was their fault he couldn't he couldn't say that well that's happened because I made it or allowed it to happen you couldn't take responsibility for that and I think that was not being able to manage the way that he was manifest manifesting his emotions yeah you know and because he was a man's man yeah he wouldn't talk yeah he couldn't talk because he wouldn't want anyone I think he was weak so he suffered when did you find out exactly what happened that night so did you did someone say to you he was attacked by three men four men where was it this happened this happened when you found out how did that make you feel then were you thinking Revenge who are they what was going for your mind as soon as I walked in as soon as I found out I walked into the petrol station I got the call yeah Revenge was on my mind 100 without a doubt yeah you've touched my family and I I you didn't just touch him you killed my brother you killed the man yeah that made me who I am you're you're dead yeah you are 100 Dead with our doubt with our doubt so I knew that I was going to kill this Geezer that's killed my brother I'm thinking it's just one guy I didn't know it was four you know until I got to the police until the next day so I've gone home and I'm I'm there my mum's smashed up I've walked in she's smashing up the house she's going no screaming screams at you you'd never even hear ever unless it happens to your mum and I hope I pray that nothing ever happens to your family the way it has this and my mom's come down it's my boy here she's calm down she took one look at me she goes make sure they suffer because they all know what I'm gonna do yeah make sure that they suffer your old deal was saying that to you my mum yeah did you find out who they were and where they lived the next morning okay the next morning seven a.m the next morning seven eight God had witnessed it in the car the police didn't even understand how I was getting the information listen social media is a curse but it's also a blessing yeah because and what year we're talking this is 2017 isn't it yeah yeah okay yeah so this was in the peak traffic yeah this happened my brother's gone down to this new drug line he's got who he normally gets the drugs off got raided a day before had all his stuff took off him and my brother normally stays with his source he needed a new source my nephews took him to up to Ipswich dropped him off at the train station he's gone down to go and get drugs from this guy but my brother didn't know that this drug line had been tipped off that they were going to get robbed so my brother was a new face still alive so they thought that my brother was there to Rob him but he was just there to pick up his right some crap do you know what I mean so he was waiting waiting outside the gate about one and a half minutes away from the house wait around the corner that's where we drop off they come down four or three of them three of them come down one of them was on the phone two of them were walking down with him and then he started fighting my brother's scrapping back so he's having he's having it with him it was on one side of the road my brother was like hitting them as they were coming towards him they were swinging my brother was swinging he had crossed the road he was you know when you were fighting you you're fighting backwards so you're walking backwards leaning forwards yeah and that's what it was and then it there was zigzagging across the road um in Peak traffic on a set of traffic lights so there's cars all over and these guys are fighting and then my brother was walking backwards they're on the road and he'd tripped on the curb going backwards so as he went down the guy that was behind the guy that was fighting my brother stabbed him whilst he was on the floor as soon as he went down the guy come in stabbed him then they all ran off this was in front of this guy's car and uh my brother jumped back up like after he'd been stabbed he jumped back up the geezers went down his window and said are you all right mate and my brother's gone stuck his thumb up yeah and then as he's gone past his car he's just fell yeah she went down and it was one step one in the lower stomach near the belly button and it went it gave him a paper cut on his main artery and he bled in so there was no blood no one knew that he'd been stabbed until it bled internally he bled internally but he's his body had released so much blood so fast that he ended up having a heart attack which contributed to his death you know but there was a man there and uh he was just a teacher I think he was a science teacher a German teacher from a school locally walking home from work and as a guy laying on the floor he'd seen the argument he saw the fight and then my brother said to him I think I've been stabbed I think I've been stabbed and he's the guy's land on the floor with my brother he's holding him and he's trying to look lifting up his top trying to look he goes you haven't been stabbed he goes I have I have and then he just went silent and then my brother had passed away the ambulance turned up got him in the ambulance tried to bring him back got him to hospital I ended up talking with a guy that tried to save his life the surgeon and he said they put like nine liters of blood and him he just weren't holding it and they said um we had to call it it died um yeah what was your movements after you knew that it died regarding the three or four it was it three or four men four the four men you're thinking right I'm getting revenge so first of all I had to find out who was it I was still assuming it was just one person I had to find out who it was someone rung me the next morning I was out yeah so for me I needed to trace my brother's life yeah so I need to go and find all the people that are going out drug dealers that are out selling crack that time in the mornings because everyone you get the text message breakfast yeah so breakfast is like crack white and brown for anyone that's looking for it that's around that time in the morning so I'm out six o'clock I'm in a town center waiting for these people to come out homeless people the crackheads the drug dealers so I'm waiting around I didn't know where to look because I'm not I'm not a drug person I've not been around it I've been around people that do drugs but I don't know where you get it from do you know what I mean so I'm in the Town Center ready I'm ready to go I'm told up I'm all good let's go yeah and then I'll get a phone call from this woman who lives over Chantry way and she says my friend's son saw it he was in the car he spoke to your brother after it happened I said what give me his number she give me his number I'm ringing him ringing him he's got up I said you want mate how you doing I said on Dean Stan's piece brother he went who's that I said the guy yesterday who was killed in front of your car he went oh mate I'm so sorry I said did you see it or he said yeah I said I said you know who it was he said no I said do you mind if I give your number to the police yeah so they can contact you to to know who it was they've done it because I thought the police would be able to get it this is going to get rested I know his family I'll start targeting the family that someone's gonna pay for this year so he was like now now do it he goes at first he was like now I I don't think I can breath my misses like she's scared she saw it she was pregnant at the time like she'd witnessed this and um he was like my Mrs don't I said look mate I said imagine if this was your brother and I saw it what would you do and he went he goes all right give him my phone number misses in the background she's like no don't do it and he goes babe I'll go so I got the number I've rung up Pauline the copper that come I said I've got a number she was my liaison officer at first and uh I said I've got a number she goes have you done that I said I've got my ways but I've got a phone number he told me to give it to you you got to call him she was like okay what are you doing I said you know what I'm doing she goes Paul don't be stupid leave it to us I said no chance and I said here's the phone number I've got to go and uh hung up so now all these started coming out yeah so I'm getting up to him do you know my brother he went yeah I said did you hear that he's been killed they went what Dean taudine and I was like yeah they went no and I could see they were like no so I could tell through body language which ones were friends and which ones weren't yeah and it was like No And there's a a guy called Terry Forrester he's he's a homeless guy he's nuts he's lovely lovely guy and they wouldn't mind me saying his name and uh he was like I'm gonna see what I can find out for you and Eddie talks to everybody so I had him now I've got him out going to see what he can find out because he loved Dean Dean looked after him do you know what I mean and uh so I've got all these people out I'm listen I'm grabbing the people that as soon as I saw someone that wasn't like what Dean yeah and I could see it on his face here I could see it straight away it was like that serves him right do you know what I mean grab him up dragged him in the h m doorway because it was like set back drag him in hmn doorway give him a couple of digs I said what do you know because I don't know nothing he goes stop stop stop I said I don't know because he needed crack yeah yeah he's feeling everything you know what I mean and uh listen it might come across I'm a bit of a bully yeah at this point yeah but I don't care because I wanted information I needed to find out and anybody that was in my shoes would have done exactly the same thing and um I've cracked them out a couple of times you know to try and find out some some thingy give me some names I've then gone as the day got on yeah more people were talking about it started getting out next thing name started dropping I've got a name I said tequin Parker I said it was tequin Parker they went techman Parkers Gwen's brother I went Gwendolyn yeah they would yeah Gwen was a street girl yeah and her and her boyfriend I'd looked after for years like they needed food I'd give them food they needed sleeping bags I went and bought them sleeping bags like they had it was raining I bought them a tent I'll give him a tent I'll give him everything and her brother killed my brother what what world are we living in life and and I'm like are you serious like yeah so I rang up Pauline I said you know a tech Quinn Parker she goes I've heard of him and I went where's he live just chancing she knows me she's going to tell me yeah we go way back she didn't tell me nothing but then that's her job I understand that now at first I was like [ __ ] you [ __ ] you know what I mean and I was like no I'm not having none of it so I was now out looking for tequin Parker and then when I got tequin's name I got that I got Daniel gander's name okay I was like who the hell is Daniel giganda they're like he's a Somalian from London I was like where's he live okay is that a cuckoo down the road yeah cuckoo is a place where you sell drugs out of it yeah oh and where's the cuckoo he goes down the road so I've got the address I'll kick the door in I've gone in don't know what's on the other side don't know anything I've gone in there was no one in there nobody the house has been abandoned it's gone I said where is anyone that's in here because it was it was Flats I said where's the person that lives here they go they're not here they don't come back they go away for weeks and ends and then eventually they come back so now I'm lost again I don't know where I'm at I've got given another name found out where this guy lives yeah and um Jason his name slit me and I don't know why his name always slips me because he was the sneaky one that was on the phone do you know what I mean the fourth one I didn't know who it was the fourth one was the guy on the phone to the other guy so there was three guys at the time but the fourth guy was on the phone told him kill him so the guy on the phone goes he said kill him so then they killed him you know so I don't know who that was until we got arrested the police had to do their work on that I had a name it was a nickname I had that nickname did you manage to get hold of any of these Lads before they got next so um one of the guys ended up getting stabbed twice um I don't know who done that I never got arrested for it I never got questioned for it but somebody stabbed him twice um left him where he was to to die um he then got took to the hospital and I found out that he was still alive and I said how is this this crackhead skinny man like how has he survived being stabbed twice but my brother who got stabbed once a powerful guy died like how has this guy survived and uh I went up the hospital to find him because I was going to slit his throat but it was police everywhere I mean police everywhere I've gone up Hospital I'm not I'm like I know a lot of people at the hospital I said is there someone in here a load of police and stuff they said oh there's a guy down there they didn't know my brother had just been killed so there's a police down there I said oh good I've got to speak to the police so I've gone down there to get him finish him off from what somebody else done to him and uh police were everywhere mate I couldn't get anywhere near him so what are you doing down here I said oh nothing I've come pick my friend up for work it was like yeah who is it and my friend was walking down he was a porter I went are you ready he goes yeah mate because you see my face so you're ready because yeah mate so coming in and he goes Paul I'm at work I said you're gonna have to come with me mate you're gonna have to come with me I said please come with me gets in the car with me I drive around the back of the hospital and I said nice for me he gets out goes back to work I go off but I I was I'd set out to to sleep when you look back now you look back at these times and the times you could have gone and slit his throat or smash your your your your mum's husband over there and got rid of him do you look back now and think thank God I didn't do that yeah yeah yeah but that's not come without learning how to to deal with being a man being I had to find out I had to dig deep to find out who I was and I'd never have found that out if it wasn't for the trauma so I I went from a very violent person that you know was a tattoo artist that was just doing my answer was violence and I didn't know who I was I know I knew now that I didn't know who I was then and I was the person that everyone else wanted me to be so I'm at the worst time in my life yeah my brother's been murdered I've gone to find four people to kill him and I'm I was capable to go and kill these people I'm capable to go and do this no problem yeah because my family my family said make sure you get them I can't let my family down yeah I I can't let my family down and I can't let my brother down because if I kept thinking if this was the other way around I know my brother would have gone I know they would have been dead I know it so when they all got arrested and I couldn't get to him I tried to get to him whilst they were in prison I made a call in prison you know bounty on the edge and do your thing but there was a police that put a phone on the landing and they recorded everything and I the police rung me up said I need to come and see you I know that you've put a hit out in jail I need you to sign this bit of paper and they said if you don't sign this paper we've got to press charges and I was like and basically the bit of paper said that I I understand that I've done what I've done and that um I will make no forever attempts and if I do I would be charged for that offense as well as another offense so I was I signed the treaty paper over it was the first time that you saw them in court yeah what was that feeling like you're looking up there mate when you when you're there and you've got this on your head you have to kill I want to kill yeah and you've got all of this like with the anger with love with I'm I'm I'm hurting as well you know I've lost it all and I'm left now with not being able to I've let my brother down I've let my family down so that's going for your head as well Matt I've I've let them all down yeah not the fact that I've got my children yeah and that I've got my wife yeah I've not done what they've asked me to do yeah I've not held up to my family name I've not protected my brother so when I was I was lost yeah and I couldn't be found I went out for seven days on a Manhunt I didn't come home for seven days I was literally gone still had the same trainers same socks tracksuit on hat I was completely the same for seven days I was a [ __ ] yeah I was out on the streets all night doing all this lot so when you come face to face with these people and when it went to court I was not allowed in court I was not allowed in court because I had to be had a psychiatric evaluation yeah on me because they knew what I was that I what I would do what I was capable of doing and they knew that I would go through it if I had the chance so there's only one room in this Crown Court where the glass goes from floor to ceiler yeah they did not want this in a court where I could get over the top so we had to wait for this room to be available and that was the only courtroom we were allowed in you go into Crown Court it's the the first one on the right hand side downstairs and that was the only one we're allowed in because they knew that I'd jump jump in but I had to be psych evaluated they gave me a room there was 30 30 odd coppers down there yet on patrol because they were there for me and if any of their families turned up and everything I was I was gonna get them all yeah and they stuck me in a room and they were very clever with it because I had my own room so I was away from the other members of the public yeah so no one was going to trigger me or anything like this yeah and they gave me puzzles to do what calms you down I don't know a puzzle yeah I've done one puzzle in my life I didn't have an I didn't even know yeah I've done one puzzle in my life I was like I've done it once in the women's refuge and I remember feeling calm when I done it I said I don't know a puzzle and I so they the police bought me puzzled a thousand piece puzzle two thousand piece puzzles I've done like nine or ten puzzles whilst I was there I had the court people coming in doing all these puzzles try and calm me down I hear the buzzer go in the door I'd go flying up to the door and I'd be standing there like are you part of it and then I'd be watching them and if they went down to that back room yeah headed down to that back room I'm I'm it's on I'm I'm it's on and I can't I don't know how to explain you imagine feeling so angry that you can tear up a room yeah but feeling so lost that you don't know what to say to anybody yeah Echoes of conversations are coming at you but you're not sinking in because I'm in this transition stage like I don't know where I am with my emotions and I don't know how to manage that yeah and people are coming through the door instantly I'm switching and then it's not them so I'm then back down doing a puzzle and like you you can't contemplate like the up and the down yeah of so quick it's like well I'm ready to kill you now I'm doing a puzzle it's it's weird it's weird you know how I could be so violent and so calm within seconds of each other it's not you carry on with a puzzle real calm and stuff you know how do you feel at that time you were losing the plot yeah yeah yeah I was losing the plot but no one could see it yeah no one could see it because I can't I can't be weak yeah yeah because my family is looking at me yeah yeah I've got people in my town that's knowing that they all turn around and I said these people were like getting questioned by the police said people knock on the door in the area they said you better get them before Paul does and they were like why is that and they said because you'll have another body yeah you'll have another body and they go do you think he will and they say to him do you think he will you know and the police were in I think I was more of a pain to the police because they kept saying to me like you need to stop let us do our investigation no chance am I leaving it up to the pigs to the Roses no way and I said it to him I said to him he ain't leaving it to you won't get nothing done I'll get done quicker than you um and all the information I found out I got um the judge at the end of the trial he was like thank you for everything this court case wouldn't have been able to go without the information that you you like collect it yeah and that was emotional when you were in the call looking up at them how long did they all get and you remember how what you said to them at the time did you show anything out so um because I wasn't allowed in the courtroom until I got a psychic evaluation because they thought I was yeah like nuts yeah um I got psych evaluated uh multiple personality disorder a bit schizophrenia or whatever and um not paranoid the other one the more explosive ones you know what I mean so I got diagnosed as well at the same time which was good because I understand now why I think the way I think you know um you know when you put a label on it it feels a little bit easier yeah so now because I got value-ad I understood a little bit more about me yeah and that was nice yeah but at the same time if I would have known years ago I probably wouldn't have gone through so much yeah do you know what I mean of course yeah um but he just looked at me as a naughty child so I was a naughty child and that's always it was easy to just bypass that but someone had to die for me to find out my true evaluation you know and uh eventually after four and a half weeks I was allowed in the courtroom um so the first time I went in the courtroom you walk in judges there we sit here and the the box is like I'm here the box is here yeah if you stand up you can see the window you can see through the window yeah and as I walked in I paused because I see them and I'm looking at them like and they're looking like who's that they don't know who I am they ain't got a clue who I am because I wasn't a part of the drug world so they don't know who I am I'm just a civilian they know that they even had a brother yeah yeah and they know that this Giza is looking for him and they've been told that I'm gonna kill him yeah so they're looking and they're like is that name because we don't look alike my brother's mix is sure I'm a little bit taller a little bit more chubby odd you know what I mean and so we don't look alike but that's my brother you know and we've gone in and you can see them looking and I'm looking at them like wait until you come out that door yeah yeah one of them looked in and he's sort of like smiled yeah and I I pinned him I was like yeah it's nodded like nodded and then I sat down and then you you fruit the half of the glass was like Frosty so you can see like you know like a bathroom window you know if the lights on and from outside you can see movement I can see him looking see him like trying to look up see where I am and stuff so I'm there waiting I'm waiting for the judge to say it's break or something so I can stand up and look at these gazes again so as soon as the judge has been like we're going to break as soon as I saw him lift the hammer up I stood up straight away because they'd have to stand up they would stand up so I stood up and I turned and I wasn't facing the judge I was facing them and I was looking and I was staring at them and they then they sort of think they sort of got that I was Dean's brother I was a family member but I was staring at a note like they had a it was on you know and uh I thought they were going to come out I didn't know how it worked I thought they were going to lead them out and this was it I was ready they're going to bring them out they're going to walk him around with the security guards but there was a door in the back room and they went out for the door so I turn around I said to The Copper I said where they gone and Andy mortar copper he's my new liaison officer he's everyone and goes um I said did they not come out through that door he goes don't be stupid we wouldn't bring them past you and I was like really I said where they gone then he said the door at the back so again I'm now left feeling empty again because I thought the end now I'm gonna get him yeah even if I've got one of them I didn't care which one it was I just needed to show my mom and my sisters that like I got you guys you know what I mean how many years did they get each the guy that they said stabbed him he got 22 years and the other three they all got 18 years each and they have to serve full sentences without the Roman time yeah they have to serve full sentences before they can apply for parole how did you make how did you feel when you heard that the one that I was most nervous about was the Geezer on the phone the guy that said yeah kill him yeah because he wasn't he was in London when he said this so he got 18 years for that 18 years and that was recorded that was it was recorded through cellular data that was triangulated to his address in that area um and that was pinned to the phone at that time triangulated in that area um and they got they got him on triangular did your brother have any egg with any dealers before you know anyone that buys drugs are always going to be like get some stuff on tick or you know think you give me two less so you end up having an argument you're like there's not enough here I've given you this you know and my father was a straight talker if you if you'd done him short he'd he'd he'd take everything off yeah like if you've done him sure he'd be like because you tried to mug him off he'll just mug you off and take everything off you you know that that was what it was he was a straight guy you know so you know if you're selling drugs to him that give him the right amount or was it take it all or you just come down with like just what you were selling him do you know um but so after all this happened and you calm down what was the next move for you to set up the charity that you set up about knife crime so I'm lost Beyond Your Wildest Dreams I got a beautiful family I got a mum that is no longer a mum no more yeah this is a this is a ghost of a woman that looks like what my mum used to look like my mom was a fat short Stampy old lady just wobbling around everywhere do you know what I mean now she's Skin and Bones hagged she's aged she's she's just a shelf she's not she's not even a mom I call this woman mum and I I don't even know who she is you know so I've got so much in me that I hate these people for and I've got all this in me that's like I haven't done what I'm supposed to do and and I'm I'm lost yeah my sisters I've I've set up and I was the lead of this police whole police investigation if they wanted to talk to him they couldn't talk to my mum they couldn't talk to my sisters they were a mess my stepdad my mum's husband is a nice guy I don't really get on with him but he's a nice guy you know what I mean and he had a stroke the next day so he's useless absolutely useless you know he's got no movement in his arm in his leg because of this so now I've gotta check he's okay I've got to try and stop my mum from committing suicide I've got to stop my sister from committing suicide because they were best friends yeah yeah I've got my other sister she's like lost and crying in that lot and I couldn't cry I had no time to cry because if I did who's gonna put this family back together what's left of it so I'm low I'm lost my sisters I get the police I say my sisters need therapy they need help my mum needs therapy they need help what about you don't worry about me just get them sorted I can't talk to a stranger that doesn't know nothing about how I'm feeling I'm a man I'm a geezer yeah you know like you can't tell me nothing how do you know what I'm feeling like I was so lost and you were what 35 years old then yeah I think so yeah 536. it's unbelievable the Ripple effects that happen after knife crime or any kind of crime like this and this is why this is why I don't I do what I do yeah because there was no one out there for someone that thinks the way that I think yeah there's Charities out there there's this and that but I feel like with a charity yeah that if you if you're a charity in your area and Something's Happened like that you'd reach out right yeah because you'd know how I'm feeling but there was nothing no one reached out to me no one reached out to my family they had help they had the therapists but I needed someone that knew what I was going through and someone that had a knife crime charity should have reached out to me I'm not a hard person to find I'm very well known in my area you know I've got a tattoo shop the most successful tattoo shop in my in my area everyone knows who I am you cannot not find me if you want me you ask someone they'll point you in my direction a hundred percent there's not a single person you'd you'd be able to walk past that wouldn't know who or where I was and no one reached out to me and I thought I felt disgusted in humanity like I was let down by Society and I started thinking there has to be someone out there that's got to help other people I need to focus on something I need to be able to make sure that there's no one else that's going through what I'm feeling because I never felt like this before now if I was committing crime and someone come to me who feels the way I've done and just give me a little bit of that and I felt that as a child but I would never have touched anybody I would never had a fight I would have never committed I would have never done anything that hurt anybody ever and I apologize to everyone apart from that teacher but I I apologize to everyone who I hurt because if I've made them feel how I feel today I feel disgusted man like for real and this is the medicine I need to give to people and that's why I set up the charity my brothers would not die in vain and his legacy will live on and I'll make sure that to my ultimate power that I will try and not let anybody else feel the way that I feel and for the listeners out there tell me about the charity so I set up the be lucky anti-crime foundation and the reason why I called it be lucky is because my brother never used to say goodbye he used to say be lucky and thumb up be lucky and thumb up and walk off yeah so I made it be lucky and uh I used to say he had nine lives so we had a cat as a logo you know like a thinks cat because he hated him he said they're horrible they're like aliens so I had a sphinx cat as the logo we changed it now to like um like a kiss Cross or a black one is what we've we've established as a knife crime logo you know and people come and get towed on them and everything but I I I set this up so I could teach people that crime is not worth it you know what we need to understand is time is what's important and we're so protective over things like closing oh you've got dirt on my clothes and we got like oh someone stood on my trainer or someone's someone's damaged my wall in my house I drove into it we get so wrapped up in things that we can fix and replace that we fail to work out the most important thing and there's something we can't get back is time and it runs out on us every second it goes by that is the second less that you have and if you haven't done good without second then what's the point of life you know so I go around I try and teach kids about time precious time and to try and teach them to put down a knife and the Ripple effects is the biggest importance and I never knew what it was called until I um podcasted a guy I knew about the theory of it all but I never knew it was called the ripple effect until I podcasted another guy called Scott and he said that's the ripple effect and then I was like oh yeah it is it's like you start thinking about it so yeah I try and teach people about the Ripple effects uh knife crime in the UK has risen ridiculously higher levels what advice can you give out there to kids carrying going out on a night out and carrying a lot of the people that have come across that are carrying knives they feel like it's for their protection and they feel like it's going to save their life they don't realize that nearly 50 50 of the people that carry a knife are actually killed and wounded by their own knife they don't realize this so if you don't know what's a 50 if you're carrying someone grab it off and kill you back because most people are carrying a knife yeah like like when you're throwing a punch yeah you're throwing a punch you've got a fist a half a fist yeah so if you're using a knife whilst throwing a punch and it comes out your hands you know or if you're not strong enough then the person because when you've got a knife you think you can challenge someone that's twice your size and strong yeah you ain't got a chance that person is going to get it off here and like if you was attacking me with an iPhone I'm going to take off you and in that Split Second he's gonna make a stupid decision the stupidest decision the stupid is because you wouldn't do it but because you're in that moment yeah you're you're stuck in a transition in your life what you would you're not contemplating there's no contemplating there it's just action instant it's instant action and you're stuck you're stuck now because you've got a knife in your hand that you've used even though it's not yours you go I can't go to jail for it this isn't my knife this is he's you can still go jail for it yeah you might get a shorter sentence because there's loss of self-control but you still killed someone you still wounded someone you stabbed someone what sort of put anyone out there listening who is carrying what sort of sentences are these people getting these days so there's a mix of variation um it's not as strong as what it should be you know they say that if you're carrying a knife you you um they're trying to put a sentence to be five years start five years if you're just caught carrying yeah wow yeah and you know if you'll just caught carrying a knife and they offer out a five year sentence that should be a deterrent but they're not following free with this you know there's kids in my area that are carrying knives I'm I try and help like stop them from doing this you know um they listen to my lives and on Tick Tock and stuff and they say because of you I've put down a knife and stuff and it's really good because they're understanding the passion and the Purity that's behind my pain and um you know they're getting arrested they found a knife on him the place to take a knife out on them take the knife off of them and let them go with a caution and you're thinking what is a mat with you yeah because if all you're going to do is Nick me I'll spend 17 hours in a cell or whatever and you're going to release me with paper yeah what's going to prevent me carrying what is going to prevent you like seriously as a child what will stop you from gan I'll just go home and get another one out of my kitchen drawer you know and the maddest thing about knife crime especially with youngsters is the parents that don't believe their children have been brought up that way to carry her is ridiculous it's crazy they're like oh my children ain't been brought up that way would the world's change changed quickly they've changed I spend a lot of time um with the charity educating the parents because the parents really they the parents are so scared now yeah that they're too too when did my brother first died not really many parents were like oh you live by the sword you die by the sword you know you hear that oh they hear something that's to do with drugs Ah that's the lifestyle we lived now it's in-house now it's in-house because your child yeah you're like one in three one in three people yeah are a witness or a victim of knife crime one in three yeah so you could be walking at school someone else have a knife have a fight to pull a knife out Chase someone or or there's a gang over there that's decided to go and you've like got your phone out and witnessed it you know and and that's that's the weird thing is about listening to all this what you're talking from is the knock-on effects it's not just you going to prison for stabbing someone else and knock on effects for that all of your family around you I'm telling you now yeah that I am not joking when I say to you yeah I my mum is gone yeah my mum is gone she is she's a dead person she's dead but she's alive but she's dead mate that's not a mum no more that's a woman that's existing you understand like my family has been ripped to pieces and when my family we're all close close you know we're all together we got past we've got backgrounds you know when one of us gets affected we all turn up but when my brother died I was on my own I was on my own I didn't see my cousins I didn't see my uncles these were all men these were bad men you know fighting men dangerous men where the hell were they when I was going out kicking Cuckoos in and attacking the drug dealers on the corner of the streets like grabbing older people when they're doing you know the drug checks and stuff like where where were anybody where was my friends you know where was all the people that were bad men they were all walking like their Road like where were all they you know there was no one in sight no one and I hated everyone for it now I don't and this is why the charity works so well because I will not falter in my passion had the police come out to me um a couple of weeks ago and uh because of my efforts of not following procedure when it comes to anything I do with the charity schools won't let me in because you know they don't think that um I'd be right to approach the children because I'm too like vocal and loud and they think I might scare them yeah um so I stand outside the school grounds handed leaflets out you're amazing and he used carrying a knife if you do give them to me I'll put them away for you kids hand over noise yeah they're hand over noise can't make you don't want to do that tell me a little educate him a little bit not aggressive now I said let me talk to you for a minute come on I said what would you do when you if your mum comes around your house if the police come around to your mum's house and say sorry your son was killed today and they're like I said how would your mum be what if your mum commits suicide like my mum wants to because you're gone your baby you're her baby because all you wanted to do was carry a knife to save face they hand the knife over they hand an arms successful with these guys I'm successful with them and the police that canceled the schools they don't like it they don't like it because I'm I'm moving and I'm just a guy in a tattoo shop that's hurting yeah but I know how to approach these kids and they all love me they love me because I was a part of the street but I wasn't in a gang I went in a gang The Gangs weren't like that then it was firms you know like a couple of friends just go out and work together do you know what I mean so these kids they appreciate and he understands I think you're doing really what you've been through Paul is pretty horrific mate and what you're doing now come out the other side of the lovely misses let's see over there yeah and everything you've gone through I think it's really powerful what you're doing and I think you should carry on doing what you're doing because the ripple effect anyone listening out there who is carrying on no Sunrise carrying this is a really powerful message yeah yeah and it's moved it's moved Big Time listen I've been at it for six years now my brother's been gone just over six years I've been out of six years and it's been a massive success the last three years things have really turned around yeah they turned around massive because with the charity is we was bypassed because they thought that we were only going to be a couple of years and I'm gonna forget it and go like all the other ones do they set up don't they're not getting paid I'm a non-profit in organization every penny that comes through that through the charity goes back into the street yeah every single penny of it every penny and I've got paperwork to put online if anyone disbelieves yeah yeah but every penny that comes through there goes back into the streets and when I say it goes back in the streets I'm not talking about programs that I'm giving back to the council I'm giving these kids something yeah I'm not giving them gifts at JD like some people do and that's really successful for a lot of them yeah and it's working for them in that area it's different I'm what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to integrate these kids to understand that just because they're from that postcode it doesn't mean that you can't connect yeah it don't mean that you can't Vibe like what you can each other for over a couple of letters and words it's mental so I started an event and um we're coming up to our third year and uh the first first event I set up it was a basketball tournament and I basically all these kids that were on the streets in my area they were all working they all play basketball and I thought I'm gonna connect them this way everyone puts football teams on and they do football not everyone's into football I'm not into football you know I I was a basketball guy so I set up the event I got the police to get team together so I had police feed Street kids roadmen ex-prisoners the police come down the police were really nervous they were really nervous please come down 1230 kids turned up one thousand kids from areas that hate each other they turned up to this event for a 250 pound prize draw for the winning team they turned up 250 quid hear me thinking like how can these kids yeah 250 quid for the winning team it's three on three 250 pounds split three ways these kids come down ignored the beef for 250 quid split freeways how much must these want the money yeah so you've done two years are you coming to third year now yeah so we're on our third year now and put myself in a position where um I would allow you not to come anywhere near me and is that is that what it was yeah protecting yourself I was protecting myself did you find that you as you were protecting yourself from the front there deep down you're a little boy inside oh listen uh that that day made me feel like a little boy yeah um I thought I was powerful because my family and everybody told me I was but that day when I froze yeah and I can assure you I'll never ever freeze ever again yeah yeah I'll never ever feel that way again and um yeah and I know this because I went looking to kill people you know um so I know I won't freeze because when it counts it might I'm able now I'm a new person I will stay away from violence if I can you know don't get me wrong if you come to me you're trying to attack me I've got to protect myself but that's not it's not a first choice no more it's not I'm not interested to walk away listen I am I looked for respect from Everybody by hurting people and making them fear me yeah this has made me realize that the respect that half of these people believe they have is fear yeah there's a big difference because when you die they're happy you're gone yeah where if you can get people to respect you for the goodness that you put out they will miss you forever you become a legacy a legacy you know they say you're forgotten after three generations my brother will never ever be forgotten and neither will I because I'm a pure man now you know and I will step away from violence do you feel that you're in a really good place as you sit today yeah but that's only because of what I've got around me yeah yeah so I've got you know I've got my wife and my children and I've got I've got I can look at myself now and I can see who I am and I like what I see here and I like how I feel and don't get me wrong if someone gets a bit antsy and I'll get like I I wanna sometimes I feel like I can slip back to the way I am but that's a split second and that's what I'm trying to educate these kids to do don't think like that because afterwards you will feel better because you walked away and not it doesn't make you a coward it doesn't make you weak you're just choosing to not manifest that in your brain you know don't let no one have no control but what you're doing now Paul I think you're doing putting out some really good stuff across your socials and across your platforms and your podcast where can people find you these days so I'm on all social media platforms uh Paul stansby podcast if you want my tattoo one it's Lucky 13 Paul stansby um but my podcast channel was all about trauma so me and you have podcasters some of the same people yeah yeah um how you podcast is phenomenal it's unreal and James English better watch out because you're coming for that space I'm telling you that now and I I know I said that to you before but I want the world to know that James better watch out because you're coming and that's the truth I think you're going to be real big in this game um but with me and you we're a little bit different because I focus on the trauma and this the the um the Journey of it I I don't go into the um the success of violence you know I I say the other way and the only time I really go into it is just like a slight back up but I think what you do is absolutely amazing and I do believe that you're going to be bigger than what you are now by a long shot kind words mate and I'm just doing it for a bit of fun yeah I know you are I know you are and that's that's the crazy thing about it and I think that's why you you're so successful with it and people warm to you and they like you and you you're a nice person to talk to and uh if if uh if Dodge reaches out to you at all yeah come meet this guy because it's you know he's a good person to talk to Paul very kind words but I really thank you for making the effort coming all the way you've come today with your with your lovely wife to come down here and tell your story some story you've got and what I love it's gone full circle and you've really taken all these years at the age of 41 to really find yourself in these last three years and I think you've got a huge future ahead of you I appreciate it yeah yeah I appreciate it and if anyone um wants to get at us like to to collaborate whatsoever at these events like young entrepreneurs that are looking to get known their business out there and they want to get away from the street and get heard get hold of us um on any of my social media platforms and we'll get at you you can come and have stalls at our event for absolutely free and come and showcase yourself and show the world what you're truly about Paul's an absolute pleasure mate thank you so much I appreciate you cheers cheers [Music] thank you

Channel: Dodge Woodall

Views: 239,023

Keywords: Dodge woodall, james english, marcus redwood, eventful lives podcast, eventful lives, bournemouth 7s, london, gangs, night life, nightclub, nightclubs, rave, rave scene, security, business, 1980s, shaun attwood, dave courtney, carlton leach, rise of the foot soldier, street fight, bare-knuckle boxing, paul stansby, aaron lambo, lad bible, tattoo, knife crime

Id: reZ7DtsnSJY

Length: 97min 25sec (5845 seconds)

Published: Wed May 24 2023