A Life Of Violence, Rise of the Foot Soldier & West Ham: My Final Say - Carlton Leach

where were you on that fatal morning in 1995 it was one of the most dramatic Gangland executions ever with no clues to how the men were lure to the spot and killed with such brutal efficiency how were you personally after the death of this went on for you paranoid as that didn't trust anybody and then after that I thought am I next the three were discovered blasted to death in their Range Rover near reckendon to get them free down here and kill them stand deadlocked by their work someone they knew and trusted I actually favored that it could be one of their own gang a person who had the same status as them you won't get me out at three four o'clock in the morning with no tour win pitch black down the [ __ ] Farm line there's no way in a million years so do you know who killed Tate Tucker and roll third day [Music] hello welcome to the show mate thank you for having me George um really looking forward to so I know someone coming down here mate hello boys two of us so let's roll all the way back um where did you grow up and how did you get into the criminal underworld well first question was it grow up uh I was born in East Ham maternity hospital which is the old balcony mode which was literally a five minute walk from the Upton Park uh the holy grail and uh yeah so we grew up all my life in Forest guy Eastern Stratford all them areas as a kid um should we come on now I've got into the football really because then because the football leads into the underworld absolutely let's just go I I'm interested as a kid what was life like for you as a kid um mum dad brother sisters one sister you know my younger sister Tracy uh she's just got over cancer and I've got uh this is my young sibling and we're as close as that we're talking she's she's the last one I'm the horrible one but now she's uh so I'm really pleased you know uh but just go up like that in an area in East London where you had to go out with big families it was it was the thing in him guys you know like you know if you had a fight with her like there was another family around the corner there had four or five brothers yeah it was just me and my sister so at an early age I was bullied uh because you know I think we win glasses NHS ones and all that because they could buy me decent glasses so and you get bullied people bully you and that's how I became who I became fighting wise from a young age I had to defend myself and look after my sister because that was the other thing and it was at times not brutal upbringing but a hard upbringing it's a tough upbringing yeah it was that East End thinking I mean you did wrong you got to be yeah anything got broke you got beaten and it weren't like you get like a backhand and in them days it was a belt it was a show wooden hanger but you got you got used to it and because like the younger sister so it would be helping me mucked about we broke something in the in the front room and and it was ah mum dad's gonna come home they're gonna kill us I'll go all I'll ever be eating yeah because because the older brother because I was I was always like the one who was getting in trouble so I'd I'd just take the beatings from your sister and she's never she's always remembered that it's just you know I mean uh but I'll get back to our uh that was a born in dagenham so he's a little league standing away um his mum died at an early age he was 14. uh he had a big family of brothers and sisters he stayed who I didn't really know and I'm glad I didn't get to know him he was a cab driver at the time me he met another woman and he left his all his children to bring themselves up so those Brothers was about five or six of them brothers and sisters living in an house in taking them they all went to work but that's 14 he left school and he joined the Merchant Navy he went around the world twice and he looked after uh like he became personal he was on the Queen Elizabeth first one looks after uh what was her name Elizabeth Taylor who was your famous one yeah Elizabeth Taylor yeah and what was over off the actor the famous actor can't figure his name oh so who's there yeah Robert Mitch um he looked hard oh yeah because he was on the Queen Elizabeth he was their personal he looked and they all got to know him and all that and everything else and for you growing up when was the first would you burn that's the one yeah that's the one which one yeah he knew them all and they all knew by name yeah and if they wanted something on the thing so he he went around the world he'd been around the world twice and for you when was your first experience going Upton Park yep getting back to that because of his always been the West end of it and obviously we was living in Forest Gate um when he was one for Road end not parking mode ends which is the other end and they'd love football football's eyes on the television I mean uh and then also West Ham was all everyone's putting West down that's the way it was he's the whole street was West down or whatever and then it was 1964. I remember watching the game with me dead and I was five on the black and white telly and they won the cup and then they they come up in the double decker bus so they started the first part all along and then my dad's had me on his on his shoulders I was six with a wooden metal yeah yeah I found a picture of one the other day someone sent me yeah so because we're going to do this thing about another thing so we had the rattle Big Boy stain scarf I was on his shoulders so I could see the bus yeah so it does sound like I was swinging it around swinging around that was our thing you know because we never had a lot of money we was always on straight Corners kicking the ball back and everything and I'll drive him insane next year tell me myself take me weeks down don't worry and um I always had a picture that's saying it's like a black and white photo that I got in my head an image like walking because we didn't get a bus like going to the green Grocers getting the wooden crate orange crate you know wooden ones right carrying out with Dad oh my designs the last two walking down Green Street like all the way down going straight to her and get to the turnstiles bang but it was easy for the the dads to have a beer yeah and they used to put us on the quotes then and that's how it all started six years of age common addiction doesn't it yeah same yeah and then you're saying there's exactly the same and then then obviously 1966 you know watching it how old were you roughly then a six six uh what's our seventh yeah okay yeah then obviously watching the World Cup yeah you know and and everyone says where someone woke up didn't it was on a regular basis we was going football football West Ham and all that and uh but all my mum's family because because I didn't really remember my dad's family my mom's family from old Jamaica road yeah this is this one right there me a wall yeah right so that's the onion and Granddad I really had so I actually adored my family from over there so I spent a lot of time growing up over there and my sister and um some weeks with Western Vietnam and the middle might be home so we go meal well the old Den it's quite funny then but I mean I think I've got to chop it out I was about 12 13 and then you have to start picking yeah south or east and then obviously as you sort of fly I know a lot of kids growing up over there as well because I was always over there A lot of them know somebody's landing and then then it was like well we'll just pull you know who would you support and I thought why Stone I've always been my stand like through and through my uncle's out of meal wall and all that and be family and I thought no I almost staying and then I remember someone give me a dig or something like that and I thought right that's me down there all right no but you understand they put him it pushed me at another level yeah where I started wanting to go at 13 14 Like the Way games my dad started taking me for a few away games like Totten away Derbies and things like exciting ones what they do yeah yeah don't get me wrong the open games are fantastic but they're way days you remember all of them I think yeah West Ham are always at their best their fans they're fans not so much in football but I think West Ham fans away together uh the humor the the the the Camaro arteries it's the passion and everyone gone you know you had the different areas like I can say they'd be strapped for Canyon Town on the Friday night you'll be on it all over real food all different clubs and they'll be fighting each other yeah come Saturday morning but you press yourself down and your little bit the other kind of a football game yeah you know the only the hardest ones to have a relationship in them days who would have like the older look with the old mile end and they were they were hardcore is that a Bill Gardner well Bill started off with them yeah but then I became bills one of those apprentices yeah there's the old TBF in the chicken man and all that so Bill he took me something when I was about 16 um so yeah I became like under under his wing and all that what did you see when you were 16 you're thinking I want a piece of this I'm like him I like him I'm seeing well we started like you know we're like like cancel that yeah and even I bet Cashman was 14 and look obviously he died he stood out for four black men and all that and this is the day that if you had like black supporters they stood out they they gave you away like when we go to Liverpool because we had like a bit quite a few black fans I've not been racist but they were they were they were all called West Ham and so if we tried to get in there we always got sussed out but you know I mean everyone goes about oh we're staying my national fan and they said I don't know that but we won yeah we were probably more Multicultural than any other club at that time you know listen a lot of players did get a lot of stick down the album yeah the old chicken one but that was more out of humor do you know what I mean you know so but um yeah but Bill was sort of the elm Island but but Bill was probably my one of the biggest icons of my life yeah yeah he he was how would you explain to the listeners Bill Gardner Bill Gardner is one of the oldest men I've ever met I mean as yet not at all Merchant I'm talking about a man that was stands it doesn't matter the numbers against you he was just a naturally old man and I could ever rare he had a presence about him and he was always a gentleman spoke spoke nice but he's just he was just it was just awesome you I can't put words to describe the man because I think you need to know him to to know to understand him and I've done a lot like intros into his book and everything and and even since day you know I mean like it's his birthday the other day and see anything but you know your Legend because of things I've done but it was the people that the likes of Bill that gave me the best to say the [ __ ] to fight in The Terraces like like that's what gave me that that thing I want to be like him yeah I want to have a real life he can respect like him and wherever he went in the country everyone knew bill yeah and them days he says days before mobile phones and and everything and social media and everything I'm talking about people with no bill and that's a [ __ ] big achievement sorry I'm swearing again how old's Bill now is his 70s I think about him yeah I took him up to we went to Glasgow Rangers Friendly's beginning yeah and I know old Glasgow managers and they've got big massive we're staying fan and Bill was up there I met him at the uh staying Steve we got on the plane and I was I was with all their top boys like because I've obviously I've got big massive ranges following and uh due to the rise of the footsold and everything else but when we went everywhere and um was in the lounge room which is their Main Pub and people's going out to me can you introduce me Bill Bill and this is what I'm talking about Rangers top top boys I know and they were they was in they just going out shaking his hand and I remember Bill run me up next day and he went you know what he said look he's been everywhere in the world yeah more games man you never misses the way around and he went to my that has got to be away game you said I've never been he said I've never shook so many ains before in my life they stand yo you said like continuously people wouldn't shake my own photos he said I've never been treated on a level of respect by another club at that thing and I've got all the photos in my phone there I'll show you later but it was awesome do you know what I mean what sort of age did you really kick on for you and you're going right I'm really enjoying this violence I'm getting involved I'm going away games I've got a good group of lads when did the other City firm start didn't see your phone came years later yeah everyone thinks it just it weren't it was a TBF Teddy band film which was Bill Taylor and when the old chicken man dies uh there was the Mile End bill was associated with the mile then sort of Bill had his own firm and we we were all in the the uh obviously the chicken man uh but I would say the violent side of it from start going away games and things like when I was 14 15 but I was just I'm still kid I went like a fighter like well yeah I didn't get involved I would say from the age of 16 17 that was when I was fighting hardcore and we're talking what are we talking late 70s 80s okay 75 from that from that time on yeah when it was getting bigger massive yeah and what did it what did it lead into into the 80s was it getting naughtier as the years went on did you find it Well yeah what happened I would say that there was a I I went from being a hooligan I would say there was a 10-year stretch where I probably missed four games home and away that's our Encore and we had uh we had this group of we're going vans cars the ultimate two containers and Mark oh we did with our Transit Vans or whatever and then then the trains and and the ICF coming back was a cheap travel yeah you know those six on the other shuttle can't see old specials they were the worst thing ever but there was just that thing about Westland going like the Manchester's the new castles of the boroughs sandal and taking a massive firm after that we would if we took under 50 or 200 that was it like oh you could go yeah 200 that you could rely on yeah yeah there's never been no it would never be like thousands like you would the Midlands like like six seven thousand fans from it would be you know you might only have like three or four hundred of you yeah but he got two studies with West End everyone knew everyone and we all had nicknames for each other and we always have our positions it was like military there was Bill with tears and band ah they were the old a lot and then there was us the younger ones you know I mean and it was our job to like to make like make sure that we were at the fan and we were all training the gym like hardcore and you know even doing martial arts everything and I mean and I just all I wanted to do was be one of the West End top fighters yeah and that was it yeah and what were the clubs that were that used to go up to going I know it's gonna be a tasty weekend was it the Midlands Club was it the other London clubs was it over in Wales um yeah Borough yeah because everyone goes sandal and massive Club New Castle Mexico Borough there are they were very poor oh any of the areas where where their poor Working Class People were the worst because because you get you get there you start working for younger like men say the Old Dominion City days you know I mean walking through like Man City and all that uh and I was rough around there when it was my side on my side cool [ __ ] I've only got a couple of way those up there I've been there a few times yeah and that was the one you couldn't even get off a bus or anything if if it was on if your coaches or your buses or anything come through my side and it stopped yeah you even [ __ ] me you said the windows so but uh yeah so there's there's a lot of big clubs I mean I remember going like you know saying Birmingham like zolos you know like any clubs are up or on par with West Ham would have been not the big clubs like the man united it's like like man united currently reads but there's like ten thousand a couple of years ago but I'm talking about people from who were born a bridge your network let's start millwall yeah the the the docs Dockers thing and all that like they're South East and we was East London you know very similar but yeah yeah so I forgot about them I didn't know uh but yeah so any any actual working class but West Ham Mill wall is a naughty naughty game yeah it's just it's um it's like a tradition it's it's just something that's carried on through generations yeah but um what I do actually broke the barriers and which was the Rave sign yeah so we're talking here like 87.88 when the wave started and people started going traveling lots of Northland and South and then like you know the Downham Tavern which was run by Jacob and all Millworks boys and like I remember being in there with a prepared dungarees like like about six days I've started with a bag of Jack and Jill's in my pocket I'm going like there's all all their chop boys are in there and that and I knew Jack though and then we was all going over there and and they're great all day and I remember going on yeah giving them people snapping and just looking art room and they were like that and everyone's getting nothing we'd probably stab each other deaf lives is but I do think that broke a lot of barriers it did didn't it but I'd still think there's that there's that thing that will never go away between Western yeah it's just inbreeding us isn't it funny you're having tear-ups in the daytime yeah mate yeah having tear-ups in the daytime on The Terraces that are nighttime Saturday night everyone's pooled up kissing and loving each other in the late 80s yeah how mad is that yeah yeah and that's how it was and obviously doing the doing the security for it and everything when did you get in when did you get into the security obviously you haven't you have a good big firm around you yeah is that when you started to think old on me well because of my reputation on Terraces like um and it was more robes Bobby Moore's old Club in uh Stratford that was the first dog my mates were doing the door there so Friday nights down more rows out with the boys low you know that and like I might saw on the door so you give nothing and they were running the door and all that and you'd always be there because because it's because you know they're your powers you back them up then yeah and it's one of them places and then um I remember the one week I was there and I was short of Dorman and uh the eighth doorman then he he went to me like can you step in like that and I thought it was like 40 50 Quid a night well I was going to work a week like like it's an engineer and thinking that's the same thing so like I was doing a couple nights on there and it was always big money in him guys yeah big money especially I know like and I was only 21 and that's how I sort of got into it because of look I've liked to have a rare and everybody else and football and I think that carried through the reputation yeah which is but we support us up to the days like we're talking about the agenda see if we were ending which was going to go into so so the whole Genesis with uh Andy Pritchard when did that when did that come about I I yeah we was we was all doing the doors like all over the place the stairs but so you're doing all the nightclubs then Andy was doing the warehouse Raves well they were doing like the smaller stuff when they were using the reggae stuff he got into it and all that and everything and then he's Wayne's stepdad yeah um he was like involved with like like security like that and he went oh my son-in-law and there's these fruits low promoters he said there's this new thing called acid house yeah for actually an ass well I was like I was 29 never took drug in my life had I and I thought ever [ __ ] I didn't even booze I was like I'd go martial arts and weights full play football that's all everything um and I thought they had to make yeah and we were still wearing Dicky bows the black yeah all the shows and everything and I'm thinking hey we've got a rave to do this weekend but what we do we work the club first all right it's going to finish we're going to go to a warehouse and it'll be like one two o'clock in the morning like I won't put before like that I said that's when it starts and I'm thinking whereas I don't know and that's how it come about and we all turned out they went what did we wear they went casual clothes so because we were staying fans but a lot of us but they all know Green bummer flying jackets the chains trainers you know whatever and so we sort of kept to that long as they'll teachers at the time that's how we were so we had our own little sort of uniform within our main can we capture that sort of like so the rules changed really because when you're a dormant on a door in a club like you said a bit of a Dickie bow yeah let's go array from Midnight to 9am the country would never have seen that before no no it was midnight to 9 A.M everyone pulled up yeah a thousand people and like and I went on with I remember going there and look at all these people when I could see like often different areas this is what I was gonna go back to there was like there was a Black Flag must get a box of the Poplar there was this one on them and I went and I was gonna know like the boys I was going like I've been Palestine Goldie and I was going I went it's going to kick off here yeah I went that don't even get on they don't get on they don't get on I said they're all right like they system makes and in this warehouse and they're just everyone's walking past another look I'm looking at it and I'm trying to like analyze it I'm like would you like what's the matter with more oh I can't I know everyone's arguing and kissing this isn't that he's been blokes and kisses each other all right all right yeah yeah yeah you get the handshake I mean and it'd have to be a stone age like whoever crushed each other's hand so it was a bit of ranch like if you know what I mean so or the size of you yeah it was very men like especially East End he was very man-made yeah everything was masculine you know what I mean and and then you look in and you think this is this is a world of where the masculinity's dropped and everyone's like I can kiss in yeah and going I'm looking at these blokes turning each other they love each other yeah are you like you never done that did you like you know you're the best mate you know I mean I love your brother yeah or it was that saying you know I mean you know you know I love you like because you're me babe but he never ever sort of went out and [ __ ] love yo okay love [ __ ] love you you might be homosexuals I just so I had to analyze it I was sitting like that I'm a mask is walking past and where he's having a chat and I went well even though I can't leave my mind and no longer could go I said we was doing the front door at the time because we'd like move around it was like about 12 13 of us so we'd take him I what the I said were you on were you what what's the matter with River he went we're on he's ecstasy he went to Kelly's they were the first ones yeah okay these I'm also Kelly I I didn't have a clue I mean look I have one of these I don't know it's like a little little brown thing wherever I can't remember the color of it and I went yes we've done tackle down one he said just break a bit off and have off he went he said no wait you'll be he said you'd be facts he said look so I'm just Dave like and I went I mean what was your own dive I was just sorry because we did the same in in in the film but it was based like on our little anyway because of the actors and so I'm thinking I want to go in there it was like the music was going there was this hand coming out like from the warehouse probably mean so I just said oh can we go should we sleep in there like that and he went yeah yeah so so I've got to cut the other boys because we waited all up the first to take them so cut the other boys swapped over us so they had because they were really good Journeys they had strobes the floor all that and the strobes were worse there was lasers everywhere smoke honestly the boys were they were brilliant so we walked in and it was the bit the first bit of light of this dance Morningside whereas it was all like different sections and it was the strobes can't walk what do you mean you can't [ __ ] walk I went I'm stuck to the floor and he went I mean anyone looking at us and he went like he went I'll be hand he went I feel the same he said he said I reckon we can get across now he's six foot four I'm like seven minutes like that so we rolled in ends but everyone's like dancing like doing all the rave music and stuff so I'm not sweating and I just fitting hard I went it seemed like the two of us from like like for me it's like well like four hours uh it was the funniest thing can you imagine on being on there two big lumps they're old enough he's walking through the dance floor and that's what it's like but everyone was so nice yeah no one should I noticed it was natural and it was like and I thought that was that was me done I found a whole new world he was like I discovered God you know what I mean I ended up upstairs just upstairs there's these lockers up there and they all fell over on the floor there's about four of them I'll come back to get my jacket and shirt off I've got a vest right I'm on there and look because the stones going through and I was dancing on my own and it had me on stage and people kind of going oh what are you doing I said I'm on the stage and I was dancing and they couldn't get me off there until about it I was about seven nine o'clock in the morning come on I was sweating my nuts off but yeah what a good move from the Genesis boys to get you involved yeah yeah what was going through there would you reckon all of a sudden you're charging what 10 15 quids to get in probably four or five thousand people yeah but people say when it started off that no one expected to the explosion yeah and obviously with with the Ecstasy which had come straight in their favor from America and you know I mean that that was 25 pound appeal then yeah but you would yeah the whole night yeah and like and you were done that was it yeah and obviously it's the same old thing you get a little little Herbert seeing this panel is on the door in it yeah I would cut all the drinks around the back in the day you pay the pound for a bottle of what they're big but you stand you in 10p yeah do you get me energy probably refills as well yeah yeah but no but I guess it was don't know booze all the cans like that there was functions where my just in the drinks all the cold drinks obviously the pills I never really see the boys get involved in that because they own their money like through on the doors but you know but the cash was coming in and flying and flying in like 10 20s or whatever it cost and it got bigger and bigger so and I think other little firms were trying to make a move on them and um obviously because of Colleen and that Wayne step down and everything he went like he said when we do like like use the boys like the West End Boys you know I see if because we like obviously have reputations and everything and yeah so it it just worked well how many men did you pick did you set up G-Force there we did have like a nickname like that or something like that but it was more just a nickname yeah because we were like West Ham we do we're all mates yeah yeah black and white as well okay that was important yeah oh what 15 16 17 18 Stones yes I'm bigger yeah yeah oh still wide yeah yeah so there's 12 men yeah Andy could rely on yeah Andy and Wayne could run and we're talking about like in events of like three four six five six thousand people yeah and just asked 12 13 of us whatever like that that was the whole security of the night yeah like we walked through but everyone got to know us still I mean it was like you know um where was when was the movie you're thinking hold on a minute these boys are getting 5 000 people in they're paying us to be there from 12 to 9 and and then all of a sudden they went well what about we do a deal that we got us and you because the quarter per partner so you've got the three three promoters and in the full fight like his shoes and then you get whatever that comes with that door you carved it out amongst yourselves do you remember the names of the men of your tight Bunch yeah yeah hold on yeah because me and Andy's we we sat on um looked for these last bit of um his last holiday yeah we was we had the laptop I was going around his house and we were running through it and and we would write and we was doing the Genesis thing when we were like the names and everything yeah every single one of those yeah every single one of them yeah and what's your movement off that then was there was it more and more promoters were coming on the scene were you looking at those products and we want the door with this no we was happy with Genesis but Genesis had so many so much jealousy and and people started grassing them and everyone wanted a bit of Genesis or to be Genesis and don't get no some great things you know like you know uh rain dance the sunrise sunrise tiny coordinator left he was involved in Genesis he went off and done his own thing but he was he was getting aircraft hangers like with with 10 12 fast but now they were putting like fears and things it was just getting bigger and bigger and the whole thing biology like on the fields and all that you know uh it was so powerful but Genesis because of the originality of Genesis and I started I did start off and their DJ line up there and they were so good A lot of people bubbled them that's how I looked at a lot of people put things in to stop the like grass that same with the locations because that was the biggest thing yeah someone who locations and if someone got a thing and all of a sudden we'd get to a location and set up so but once because it's like I mean get where I asked you in there generators are enabling it yeah you get a thousand people in here like in them days the police can get you out they'd have to wait till five six seven in the morning till we finish and then by then there's four thousand people in it you know I mean they wouldn't come through the door until the laws showing so but like people were tipping off now the old bill that we were going to a thing and that's what happened then there was a lot of like yeah look look what was it like going to field knowing that a last minute course being in that field there's the party how are the lad's promoting it however the lads promoting it says it would be like phone box it all just like yeah yeah two weeks before they go go to this car park yeah right and there might be 300 400 cars with five people in the like waiting to go it's getting to get the word to go to wherever because sometimes they go to warehouse and get in it and if it didn't take off they'd have to break in another place or getting another Gap and get as a backup so you know I mean it was amazing to move that many people about and what about the doors for you where were you working the doors after that like in the 90s early 90s to 95 what was what was what was your world in that five-year period Well we started in the paradise club uh upper ComEd Dorman at Ministry of sand from 1990 for a year I had that Friday months we were working a lot of the Rave scene went into the clubs because the lures changed and everything else so it affected quite a lot so you worked you still you might get a private big waves but they they started to die out yeah the bigger clubs now are coming in the Ministries and the paradise time was the first 24-hour Club yeah that was the other one yeah it was Tony Aid eye opportunity Supply he had my doorman there we had the paradise Club the first 24-hour club before ministry right which used to be the guy next to a guy and then they changed it into all different levels and and obviously then that's where it moved into you know I mean because you couldn't do the Raves anymore right like the licensing and they they put any law to stop it you know so when you were getting in the club you were taking over the door you had your firms there in the different clubs were you then thinking hold on I need to be serving up in these clubs we were serving that you weren't no no one thing you didn't do is because it was two on top like it's like anything there's the it's called the balance of powering up yeah right we are saying we're from east Southeast uh you're working in North London or west London right there's boys in them areas who run that yeah that's their that's their thing that's their drugs and whatever in them clubs you can't shut the door on them yeah you've got a war on your hands it's big money and so what you do you do you know they are you carry on you you take over a club that's got its dealers and you get pulled into one side and say right these are our dealers by the promoters or the management and it was allowed it was basically turn a blind eye yeah you and you let him do but it's got to be good stuff obviously if we're unhappy and we want other rival dealers you farm out yeah and and you get and you get you get a drink looking after it it's extra money there's Ministry of Sound like for you because that was obviously at the time coming and was the biggest and best club in the world at the time it was six hours he'd been running for six months when I took over there two thousands three thousand people we're changing by a thousand people one night it was mental it was mad elephant castle we're talking like 91 92 1990 yeah 91 yeah yeah and we still had the paradise so the paradise was a 24-hour Club so that was still big 24 hour Club in the 90s yeah was it yeah Angela's Angel is near the market yeah yeah ran corn from railroads but what I'm saying to you that was still going so we had a doorman there and we'd rotate them and use them because that was the other thing Dorman were either white or black yeah right you never really got a big like of our culture from East London you grew up in your best mates but a lot of cultures it was still their stigma you know what I mean so if you had a white door type black people turned out and go like oh you're not coming back are you racist and what our thought is the best advice to do it is have the best of everything yeah right I've I've I've I've ten Norman five best black film in the fireplace white dormant forget the football days because they're weird that which was still part of it and that's how it was so we're winning a little firm of black guys has come out and went like you're racist and then you've got five five black guys well where are we racist yeah you know off and off yeah I mean and the same it goes with white guys your races are we racist and that was my thing get the best black and white families in London so did you notice that the ministry like the vibe changing when the pill scene come off the Rave scene and moved into the clubs I'm sure cocaine was coming yeah and then what was the vibe like that well don't forget when I went to mini strand there was no alcohol license it was just a big nightclub it relied on the Ecstasy it made its money through soft drinks which big clubs did make a lot of money there was no the Bars were just soft drinks there was no alcohol it got his alcohol license which because obviously that's where now you get you're getting two two and a half thousand people when they start like there's a lot of Money's been made in alcohol and obviously the pills changed from the night like the sort of the 90s uh they got shitty and sheer and um they weren't good yeah I mean people were just making like crap things of pills and stuff uh so I think with the alcohol it brought more cocaine onto the scene and there was seemed to be a lot more cocaine guy flying around and um and I think like ourselves like whiz goes like I've never seen I'm going to have a pill but you can't work on a pill you can't you can't be that person like you've got you've got to have a bit of authority yeah and um and that's what I used to do like have a bit of pill when I'm like keep me awake because it was doing like stuff getting like 24 hours Paradise uh Ministry sound for 12 hours 18 hours it's like parties and going through and the the end I thought you know we started doing coke to keep us awake so was that was cocaine new to you as well obviously you said you were 29 until you didn't touch it um you found pills yeah now no that was you know cocaine went new to me as in I knew of Coco yeah it just wasn't your other choice no because where my background yeah Working Class People putting full cocaine it was only the rich yeah people like driving yeah yeah yeah or like pop stars or any or you know anyone that was wealthy I could evoke how kind you know what I mean and they're but in it but then it came on the scene and uh I think the eased and the bows didn't work very well there was no reaction do you know what I mean the best thing about these was obviously not not an alcoholic because the buzz of them uh and if you could feel that Vibe change yeah the attitude the violence and and the Coke and everything well we all know what you know I mean and so I also rather I didn't take anything I hated speed or anything like that so I will take cocaine to keep me awake but then you've got the dealers they are a different dealers working in and I like they go what Cole yeah I'll give you a couple of reps like see through the night you know I mean just to allow them to go in there yeah just like that and then you then you start getting getting an habit and then you know he's doing rap do that thing I know it's you know I've you know I wouldn't think of doing nothing like three four reps a night really yeah but over the course tonight just keep going go out have a pinch keep me keep yourself going and that's how I stayed awake uh and were you what sort of size we what sort of size are you then on the doors yeah mixing steroids yes now mixing it with cocaine can send someone who's aggressive and violent to a whole new level I was horrible if I've flipped it I went black it was like I was I was taking this thing called nebulon 50s I stopped taking them I've black out I wouldn't even remember what I've done what if someone what if someone just annoyed yeah if I'd go straight over the top like with with we're very I I if I had an emerald bar or whatever I would use it and I'll think nothing of it yeah and I'm not really I'm a violent person because because violence is my is my you know it's it's it's my Commodities It's Only Money for years and obviously football violence is a bit but the violence we was Now using was like excessive violence because people started learning respecting fear because we when people want cocaine and alcohol they're a bit more bullshy and they they're braver yeah so you mix that with steroids as well yeah yeah that's not a triple one we'd be in we'd be like in the paradise or being Mr we're going like two three o'clock in the morning and we'll be jabbing up with uh sustan and all that and doing Jabs like what jackpot jacket I put in right there why are you working yeah yeah was anyone there educating you about steroids to say you can't do it's always all just right whack it is nothing on the internet was it uh we the steroids we would buy from spine or the you know like you could go over the bottom over the can I mean them days ago no they come back with up suitcase for the steroids uh yeah no nobody said don't take that man it was ridiculous when it was like a competition now we're all like Bulldogs we're all like that yeah you know what I mean and gray allies and everything and to us we was normal because like it's like I sitting here but to the outside we look like a pack of Rottweilers excuse me and we were we acted like that a lot of time because like if one snapped everyone snapped and we were just like I've been saying so much stairs it was excessive because give me an example of what how much sort of steroids you were taking at the time well if you had um you know uh like a five mil or ten mil syringe like yeah like I'm talking about like that thick and that long you fill the whole thing up whack it in yeah back in and what like once again normally once a day yeah or every couple of days and how did that make you feel yeah yeah and the worst thing was like you do three months like you do some people do three weeks on on month on three and a couple of weeks off so two weeks off was in your head like it it used if you think I'm losing size you're looking in the mirror and all that and sleep deprivation as well you sleep properly on them wow an aggression like the things I've done that I would regret doing like over food like smashing the ass up like like because either I had a road rage or jumping out on people because they cut me up and punching fingers through and or dragging something out of the car and smashing them up and I'm not going to pay but he's got that bad you know you're working every weekend you're working four or five nights you sleeping you're not really sleeping you're just doing coke to keep it awake and then you get up and you go and take them okay and you're doing this and you've got the steroids in your body it weren't a good combination I remember back then my old man had a boozer in London and he was the first one to bring the dawn late 80s it was the it was the biggest roided man you could have and if he lost the fight that way can you get more different blokes here yeah that's how it was back to them yeah yeah it's just but really the most dangerous people I met in my life probably didn't even take words yeah it's all about the image wouldn't it you know if if I you know you walked up to me and you're done and you think if I Look to Him now and he was on the door and he went to me you can't come in I'll be more worried about him yeah because he says I think he's got something and he's got something special always there's something a little bit tasty about him you know but now if I looked at okay he's uh like 24 styling steroids and he went like this come to the door with me I won't give a monkey this thing about him I mean stick one up his ribs and be gone yeah you know because I know it slows you down and you like that but don't get me wrong if you get caught like someone like that grabs you in a lock or or does catch her you're gone but and what was it like obviously did you get an appointment did you actually know you again you know what I'm going [ __ ] mad here yes I'm going nut you did yeah I used to lay in bed overnight come in ridiculous times didn't see me babies grow up like you know and everything and I couldn't and I'd be laying here looking at the ceiling and I'm thinking what the [ __ ] is this all about what are you doing Carlton because like there was a I know inside me I know like the the nice side and and then I started like having this good cop bad cop like you know like the devil and the angel and it became like that of me and I started arguing like you get the paranoia and I didn't want to be that person yeah I wanted to cut like I thought my kids I wanted them to come in and say Dad Dad run up and pick them up and I was coming at 9 10 o'clock in the morning they were off sharp I'm going to bed yeah sleeping eating and then go back out again yeah they didn't deserve all that how many keys did you have when you work in the doors at the time never seen one died so I've got I yeah I've got 12 grandchildren nice yeah and I'm only 28. tell me about that period there you mentioned you mentioned Tony Tucker you said he had the club in club UK there how did you meet when's the first time you met Tony well we've we both grew up in Forest Sky uh it's the funniest thing and he's cut his own and you know when you're growing up as a kid you hear a name like I went to Forest Gate he went like Sandra secondary school then I went straight for grammar so in the areas some of the Tony Tucker was the name because it wrote it Rhymes yeah it's like Tommy Tucker you never there's certain names you'd forget like make yeah that's my problem Colton cold what color because everybody thinks I'm black I'm not you know what I mean uh but [Laughter] so it makes you distinctive yeah and like like Colton is it's an unusual name for a white person especially in the 50s yeah everyone was live John Bill William or whatever Arthur James but Tony Tucker was one in ones with Tony Tucker I remember his name growing up and in years later I mean I heard he was like Essex he was doing anything and all that no nothing I mean we used to go down the um and then he'd be over one side looking over not like yeah that yeah but just laughing and I'll be all my a lot and then I just don't know why and I just said either someone said if you if you make Tony you know and I went no I've heard of him I mean I've heard of you and then we just like someone introduced us that night and then we ended up an after party in acne somewhere in some Warehouse like dropping pills left right and Center just me and him and we're just laughing and joking I thought you know I like him and from that day on like there's something we just just it was infectious how we work together what was his like personality like to me he was a funny man we had we had a great laugh yeah he's a good businessman he obviously he's up to the you know when he died you know everyone said bullies bullies police and he did do certain things um but then for they went a bit extreme over the top you know like what they were doing I mean I've done bully things and regretted it because of excessive amounts of steroids and drugs and things and you realize [ __ ] well I've gone a bit over the top here on purpose I think it needs to do that you know what I mean uh but that happens in life but the meaning very similar in HR similar sense of humor we had all these years together and we just become like he had he had to wear the shop in ilford which was like like the bodybuilding he had a good business he had all the doors the only Woods in Essex he had his own security companies and then Nick's dick like so I started sort of using this could then we opened up an office next door but we I I opened the office up at the security office and then we worked together I was like I remember just to screw it off like the companies from there so we had the weather shop where you could walk through yeah so it's a little bit of a it's because we had the mirror doing things going we had a little meetings there you know but yeah but to me I'll just yeah yeah so what was that 90 99 yeah 91. and were you two have a company together doing the doors or did you have your separate companies why are we up to each other yeah okay right but Tony always had a six saw it right but when he went in his Club UK it was Wandsworth so it was a different thing so I gave him my doorman but they were he paid them like because they worked London and and knew everyone so I had someone's go over there and we had like a few of these done but because we knew that you had to know the London boys yeah that's remember I said that the ones of the West London you were if you didn't know anyone you you you'd be banging trouble you had to have that you mutual respect before you went flying in there so but if he had problems in any early words like Ipswich or anything then we I'll get a little time together with the ace top boys and with go go down sub clubs out go through the back doors catch catch all the dealers or we had to do and farm out so yeah we sort of like and we worked together like six set up companies and all that you know I mean like a company last year you don't pay the vet so someone gives us a drink all that stuff but yeah and where did where did the name Essex boys come from I can't see you making that name up right this is this is another thing right there's that certain person the brand me I'm telling you we're talking about oh and uh when he wrote this book right he gave you the name Essex boys right now can you imagine what like all these lamps sitting there in in a pub or a club around the table having a night out and all that and we're sitting there just packed High all big lamps and [ __ ] some of the oldest people you've never come across you know I mean I'm going I think we should give ourselves a lime yeah I mean you've got boyzone you know I've only got this there's this like you know take that you know what I mean and then you've got the brummies take this and I said and do you think that they sat there and went Essex boys let's call ourselves Essex boys we bring out a number one album in two years and we look like they don't do it he's just a firm that's all you are people give yourself nicknames like you said like Jay false or when you're doing the Raves you get a little nickname but no one sat there apart from that certain person when he wrote that book and he called him to because he calls himself the founding member of the Essex boys I mean like I say it's a long way to come from Birmingham to become the founding member of Essex who was who was in the Essex boys do we want like not even if I'm not saying this Expo it was in there it was in that Circle quite the uh all they did was tore the ass out of free bloke Stein in a Range Rover right there was a lot more of us in there yeah they weren't just three or four of us you know how many roughly see that we could pull up like 40 gazers right okay with Tony and a normal a lot fifth day if you wanted to do if you want 50 Lums we pulled 50 lamps up but that wasn't just Essex something about London parts of Essex like you know to me the hardest people I know are East London South London North London and London like working Essex yeah a few few people because I've been but it wasn't because they died in a Range Rover in Essex they got shot and it stuck with him they used it the the press and and everything yeah and so the Essex boys you know it's just like what happened in that period like sort of 92 3 4 until the that day in December what was going on there there was a lot of fear been going around no what it was was a lot of jog taking excessive amounts uh Pat come out and then I met Pat come out from where prison yeah attorney juicing me to him and all that what year roughly [ __ ] off 92 okay whatever a year there you have 90. I don't clearly remember the date don't quite me on that uh because we had I remember we stay in the jungle we went to party like picking him up and got snow better but Pat was good match with Tony and Tony always said about Pat and blah blah blah but I never knew Pat because I'm I'm an East London boy I've always all the doors I've ever done everything I've ever done has been london-based do you know what I mean don't get me wrong I've gone to A6 to do certain things like with with Tony or or you know work if you know what I mean yeah uh whatever you've got to do but it you know this Essex boys bringing three men in the Range Rover this a firm is a firm a firm is a firm is like it's nothing it's got to be a minimum of 20 30 men that's a firm yeah that's a firm not free blokes you know or four blokes like yeah well four because the original founding member he was a brummy there's four of them but uh what I'm telling you is that's a firm and were they going around what's going on what's going on were they owning the club drugs they had people in there was it all the drugs War at the time there was no drugs Wars nothing like that no there was no drug wars you get get fallouts over drugs like people fill out over a parcel of puff that came over it was Jane care to go back then they've raised money just listen oh people always fell out of drug deals if you bought obviously I think well you bought 50k of a path right off a certain Geezer that comes over if it's Jank it's got to go back yeah you're gonna fall out if you don't get your money back or they don't swap it that's what happens you buy a Coke like when they break it open and on the outside and then you say it's full of [ __ ] it's very pressed that happens in life because that's what happens that's and it so people say drug wars yeah it can it can go to a level where people use guns knives and they will if you've got like 100 200 Grand or someone's money you know people will get killed for it and that is that's that's that's that's the nature of the Beast so what you've got to do is they went dragon balls all the time there were there was hiccups there was you know people people when they want money get desperate people take loads and loads of drugs heavy duty drugs get desperate yeah because you've also got to feed that craving and that's what I learned you know I had to come off steroids and and everything because like um I had a like mild slow time and then they said to me I thought something about me are all down one side I was taking so much coke so much steroids and they get and I went on and I had all tests for a whole month like with the hospitals and then every two weeks basically I had heart of a 64 year old man and I was in my 30s they said to me at six months you carry on your lifestyle you're dead and so that's why I'll stop taking steroids you know what I mean uh I did like carry on with taking drugs and things like that but the Coke in there but it was the steroids did you sense anything like you're a clued up fellow right yeah Carl did you sense anything in 93 949 if something's going to happen yeah was there people you knew were getting upset and I was getting quiet words and yeah yeah yeah I was getting phone calls you were you might and all that yeah he's because because obviously I was more connected like with and and I worked with other families and famously without a famous people were famous now yeah I worked with heavy duty people um yeah you got you I tell you mate you know slow down you know the bullying bit they're setting the other and then certain things happen I got out of town they and they weren't listening to me but listen they were they were injecting cocaine uh no buying like ecstasy and and into their Vines I was I've been mainly I've had to go kick the door off and they were hallucinating and like if you've got a big mean like that who can't control their drugs I've seen it before and don't even know like they're telling me there's there's people running my little little we've seen that thought these little people running around the room and things that I see them do I'm not going to go through the whole list because but that was my mate yeah and that made me go whoa that you know you've gone you you you've gone beyond it you know I mean and then I found out they were they were smoking crack [ __ ] every sorry there was everything being used and they never know none of that because honey I think like because because how close we were I think he was a bit ashamed to admit it he said what he was doing with me so he stepped away from me a bit because because if you like if you're my best mate you're like my brother I'll I'll [ __ ] die for you I'll go kick the door off the engines I'll tie into the bed I'll do whatever I'll do I'll take him away we went to mobile for a week to get him off the drugs and stuff before all this happened but yes if you know someone and you know that person and that and you can see always looking someone's eyes because the eyes die you know the glimmer yeah the spark when the spark goes in the eyes and when when someone lies to you when they're on drugs you know to to reassure you that there's nothing wrong yeah done you've lost that person and that's basically what happened did you know at the time something was going to happen like well you obviously see in the levels they were going to and the rumors that were going around yeah like I need to do were you at Point me again I need to step away from us and step back well oh yeah I've done because I had a couple of arguments with them I disagree with what they were doing I don't do the bully see I I was bullied as a kid yeah like I mean probably smashed up you know I mean I had to fight you know I mean like I'd go to school and break my glasses and throw them because because they want to get bullied because the way I looked and then like I took because I was used to have good audience as a kid so I I I was brought up in the East End and but the thing is I thought the older boys and then I then I'll get up again but when you're used to pain you can like it's it's it all the winners all the best fires are people who can take a good idea thresholders not the ones who can just like give a right hand up yeah because they're mostly bullies you can see most bullies right they'll go bang bang bang well yeah but if that if they get a dig back and they go oh like that and that's like world champions yeah unbeatable world champions as soon as they get their first right-hander or putting their ass their facts they lose their tile when you said when you said bullying they were bullying give me an example of what sort of bullying doing the wrong things you know like excessive things like you know like mental culture you could say you know um taking things off people or you know threatening people you know there's still forms of bullions you can just you can threaten people and terrorize people that's bullying yeah you know he's gonna keep beating people or you can go and take someone off yeah I'll take that off your do you understand and they can't do nothing about it and it's I'm not going to go for every single thing because there's no point you know I mean I'll sit here for but what I'm saying is that's what I actually you know they overstep the mark and I'm glad it's because obviously I lost my pal but it was inevitable sooner or later something would happen yeah and you were fully aware of that of course yeah because that's the world I lived in yeah you know you live by the soldier died by the salt and I I think being from East London and uh different a more heavier background underworld connections you see more and you know the rules to net but I think Essex at the time was more of a playground yeah there was a you know there was there was a few hard people people there but I think you know when you start tipping stepping on the bigger Toes that they won't suffer it yeah yeah where were you on that fatal morning in 1995 December uh I was I was wearing my Mysteries and the Mysteries yeah and uh I was there and I've got a phone call and it was all over the radio and someone someone I know said oh your your power with the air I mean he's one of them gays did I went now he ain't dead he went it's all over the radio on it's on the radio and he was like every like three main fans in the ranger I have three main men and then I tried ringing him his ass phone his mobiles I left messages on his which on the answer machine which you see in the film then I got older Little Wayne oh my Mistresses younger brother who worked for Tony and I've got him to go around here and and obviously when he's around here like he's missing Anna opened the door and the police turned out and they were still screaming and everything and then I knew he was dead I'll just slide on like well I was like I mean what I say my Mysteries I was just laid on the bed and broke me up cried my eyes out I'm not I'm a man you know I mean I was I lost someone I love you know did you know they were going on that mate that morning yeah yeah yeah and did you think anything of it or no so you're just another mate no no because there's a little secrecy going on and um the person they went to me who arranged it all I know we were bad because Tony said loud you do want to go and all that we're just going to do a dummy run on there but you'll get a club but I was on I think two murder inquiries at the time in in London like due to dorm and fighting where people died in club scenes and I and obviously they were my dormant and so I was I was quite a bit under the under the radar and I went there I said Tony they went all over me like a rational moment the other people I said so it's no good and and and to be trying to really honestly I didn't really want to go on the mate yeah it was it weren't my thing it was their thing they were doing they were going to rob someone and I don't I'm not a robber yeah I don't do the thing but I understand why because there's the Amber notification and whatever the principle so really I wouldn't have I didn't want to go anyway but if Tonya said to me come we've got to meet a little firm out of my back I would have gone yeah but it was a meeting early hours of the morning and everything so I knew what was going on and everything else so do you know who killed Tate Tucker and Rolfe that day no I'll get this ass I'll travel the country out to audiences and I'll swear on my dad's ashes my grandchild I don't normally say I do not know who pulled the trigger um when I say that I don't know who actually killed them I know how they got there and they took them there and everything else but uh but I don't know who actually killed him and that's the trophy here and it's probably better that I don't know that because I think I would have walked around the last 20 ideas are vengeful when money into everything he's like and that and and then my family would have lost me and I got involved in something and obviously the reason they got killed weren't because it was over a [ __ ] car game or or if someone's banging someone else he's a woman or something like that it was that it was in the air it was it was something was going to happen yeah definitely how are you we're talking about uh group allows 20 30 40 whatever it may be how will you personally after the death of this what went on for you paranoid us back didn't trust anybody because I know that the fellow took them down here knew him and they weren't told up they trusted him and then after that I thought because my name was always random what am I next yeah the modern X One so I just moved about every six months little colder sex flex top of the thing Street room there told up all the time sniffing my brains out wouldn't go anywhere just too many kids and family went for a real paranoia thing uh took me a long world to to get like trust again I had a couple of people like that they were very close I trust Uber like family um but yeah yeah see that's to get them free down here and kill them Stone dead like that while they were it was someone they knew and trusted you won't get me out at three four o'clock in the morning with no toll in a pitch black yeah down the [ __ ] Farm Lane there's no way in a million years I'm sitting there you know I mean like you know how was your family around you uh after this happened I think I don't think they can handle it a lot of them so it's like the anger the the pain um obviously my my Coco I took more more cocaine I pushed myself to limits drink and everything I didn't really give a [ __ ] about anything I'd like because you just no no like loser will leave not because I don't know I just I didn't I hate myself hid the pain away from them but I couldn't hide the pain if you understand yeah you know so they suffered as much as me by me being a prick and you weren't staying with the family at the time like you said you're in a club you move about okay you're moving about yeah you're probably power you're carry him carry him with you as well but yeah I would have something around maybe yeah all the time yeah just in case yeah were you at a point where you like I don't care what happens did you lose a point what if something happens I'm just going to pull through I'd do whatever I've got to do yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah you've got but yeah wow yeah if you don't think like that is you become that you become another victim yeah and you put yourself you've you're like you're paranoia and fear and everything that's what keeps you alive yeah the anger and everything else because you drop any of them things so them them things and you you become weak and you You're vulnerable and if you think you'll say well I go out trust him bombs around You're vulnerable You're an offer oh do you know what it went on for a few years um three four yeah might be four years three three four years got easier yeah nothing it does engage you it got more acceptable because like the people around me well I they would that I could still trust in people so I was all right um and then but yeah a long long while like I would say that the first two to three years of him from them dying yeah were the worst wow so what just drinking looking around on the streets when you're going about to see mates or was it I remember I remember driving along and um I would always have tools in the car like because didn't trust anyone like that what sort of tools you'd be carrying well not Gardens but I'll be told up you know I mean uh like unless you know what I mean but I remember a motorbike pulling up alongside me and he went like that and he stopped I know it kind of thing and straight away my feeling was like I was gonna go like that and go bang yeah I went like that in the car yeah that's what I'm saying yeah that's that's the feeling I had also of a car following me I used to look you know or if you bikes I would never trusted a bike you know I didn't fly a bike never overtook yard and it was going I like that and if you could pull alongside me my first ratio I don't want to go like that okay it's just yeah survival and what were you doing that time you're going back oh obviously when the paranoid started to ease off what were you doing for work yeah I looking after people um yeah I'll do you know but once I come out that sort of the thing again and went back on the door but I still moved I still have good people around me doing things the debt collecting or or you know looking after people so I just got back into the swing of it really you know I mean I don't know why I thought about it well Carl this is old is it well don't don't yeah right if your cards to that end and that's your your end and you're going to go you're gonna go so your time's up your time's up but that's the way I look I analyzed it the best way for me to move on is saying if I was meant to be dead I would have been dead yeah and I would have been in the range oh I would have been here I would have been shot I would have been killed now I'm now 63 I'm 64 in March so like don't get me wrong anyway I'll still die yeah I mean from for me shitty driving but well certainly I know that's how you've got to analyze it and that was your attitude to get me out of that that that that that traumatized way of thinking and the paranoia and slow down and everybody thinks you know what I mean because I wasn't no good to anyone not not no good to anyone but not to my family you know you know my kids were suffering yeah my children did you notice did you notice your daughters and sons suffering because of this they love me they idolize me but they know it just as we got older I became more apologetic so you've now got grandchildren like I don't want them and grandchildren to ever know that that I'm I'm this person yeah I wonder I just want to be like but I always wanted to be grand grand or Granddad or whatever whatever they call me like the little one calls me grain grain or I had a Granddad I love that yeah you know is that because you missed out on your kids yeah being a dad with your kids yeah and I feel like you're treating me and your grandchildren and I think they deserve it but I am trying with my with my kids to tell I don't live around the day I don't tell them I love them every time I see him I kiss him I love every single bone in their bodies yeah but I I know and I've I feel like I let them down but they won't say no you didn't let us down we never wanted for anything they said we know why you did it you'd like to give us things that you never read as a kid so that we always had nice things where but we never had you you know you you was always out partying different women yeah different relationships but if anything we ever needed they always say to me it was there yeah you know you would go like if if we needed money you'd go out that night come back with the money so we had it so but like and I and I and I still apologize because I did let him down that's your protection you know I mean if you can't protect your own that's how I felt a little bit so but you know but I'm in a good place for him now yeah good good good good in your 20s and 30s you've had a mad mad life you're coming into your 40s now year 2000 when did you start thinking about writing a book muscle and wire uh well I did um our bosses were quite cry and the documentary and I was seeing doing little bits and pieces and Kate approached me um with John Blake and she said to me why don't you write your own book I hope to do our boss's book I was obviously on the series uh put a lot of characters in in the book and uh she said Jordan really and then I introduced me to John Blake because he was doing all the criminal books in yeah and um that's how the book come about and then when we finished the book um and I had a brilliant ghost while I always did got somebody so is he's got cancer now and he died of cancer sorry but I still send my royalties from that book to his family lovely because without even writing it and he was a top um with the sand crime crime right I don't know that but what a lovely like he might he made it like he how I expressed myself he put he means to get it just to make that book and then when I remember we was I was with uh Kate was at the offices with John Blake and his office and he went oh let's make a great film she's my brother and that's how we come about muscle became the the first book that started to franchise was the foot soldier what was your relationship like relationship like with Nigel Banks it must have been some feeling going in there carrying his belts yeah I mean yeah yeah yeah best man is ready yeah one of one of his best men unbelievable an honor absolute honor and I watched Frank Bruno out when he won the world title with Nigel and Wembley I've met every World title of my entire since I've done surgery and then it looks after Ricky out and I've met him all yeah I've looked after my favorite all-time boxers John Fraser when he was alive yeah I was his personal mind that I've done them all mate yeah yeah their things are done for nothing yeah when we we've started looking after Nigel we had our own money and Nigel went like a big one in the 50s like I went tell them your money yeah I've known you since she was a kid a lot of your family to go out and you'll be mate yeah I'm proud I said give me your shows give me gloves yeah let's have photos together people are walking him out you know their memories who else has walked out you know he was a good DJ as well wasn't he yeah I used to travel everywhere yeah and what's been your movements then over there like oh this has all been good and what's been your movements over the last sort of four or five years you're obviously traveling all around the country I see you doing all the gigs doing really well yeah well especially totally honest so sort of the last we've had covered anyway so it was the last sort of seven years I've sort of like I've had a place in Spain with my mom and dad 19 years ago they both passed away so done that with that out and I spent probably the last a good six years uh so I was living my mainly in Spain before we come out of brexit so I was staying out in Spain I could come back to England do a few shows get a few quid go back to school again live in that spine Happy Days come back see me kids fly back yeah either just put one another the Caravan on a lot like to come back it's just cheaper so when I come back the kids could see the kids and spend some time with him and that's what I did fly backwards forwards and spend the last yeah sort of a good sort of with me exit like just spend them years in Spain lovely I like the lifestyle but then it will change the brexit things yeah yeah it's just hard work I've still got the place yeah I'm hoping to sell it now you know I mean because it's all changed now it's different yeah and what's your relationship what was your relationship like with your old man my old man is one of the most amazing men I've ever met in my life I miss him dearly what would you what year did he pass about four or five years ago yeah yeah dementia yeah pop meow yeah so he's still bites me out there yeah it's like your hero yeah yeah sorry yeah I won't be I wouldn't be compilation for my friend yeah I've got he said I'll carry his jeans and I never knew that when I was growing up growing up you know you look at other people but the real where I was in yeah [ __ ] all from the age of 14. they like brought yourself up in their own family and you know went to work she did that like you know people to go work work like all the overtime and everything just to make your life better yeah yeah I took the easy boat yeah what's your future for you Colton you're 63 now what's your future 64 in March I just wanna I just wanna I don't want to be at PACE now yeah lift alarm not left side left alone I chose I chose the road I've got to live with that road I've I traveled there obviously I still do shows different things books and all I want to be is I want to be an amazing Granddad like my dad was to my daughters yeah evocally off that man and how they loved him and adored him and I have my grandchildren think the same way I'm a lucky man I'll go to my grave smiling yeah never die tomorrow I've got no I'm not listen if if I if that's my time and I'm gone listen I've had a full-fledged life I've done what I want when I want I've thought I've had some mad times some bad times some good times some great parties I mean I've got three successful books I've had two films I've made about me most people I never feel mad about them when they die yeah so listen I'm sitting here you know I've been interviewed with the likes of you podcasters and you know and I'll travel the country I've got I've just I'm going to Italy uh they're bringing my book out in the Italian they're translating it I mean like I've traveled I've traveled I can travel from other parts of people know who you are but no I'm a very lucky man yeah mate you've certainly the name of this podcast the uh eventful lives podcast you've certainly lived in an eventful life yeah just before we finish up vehicle is there anything you want to say to your kids foreign about you as well and I really wanted to do this one because uh you know you've got a good good rep and yeah I was like I I was get offered twice a week because I contact my social media thing and don't put costume and this is one I've wanted to do you know especially being an Emma do it good man take care of me I really appreciate it [Music] foreign

Channel: Dodge Woodall

Views: 600,721

Keywords: Carlton Leach, crime, criminal podcast, crime podcast, nightclub, boxing, bodyguard, London, police, gun, trauma, Dodge Woodall, James English, Dodge Woodall podcast, gangster, drugs, mystery podcast, mystery, sas podcast, gangster podcast, true crime, Essex boys, rise of the foot soldier, truth, James English podcast, Shaun Attwood, criminal, fighter, icf, west ham, hooligan, football hooligan, West Ham fight, hardest man, strongest man, toughest, toughest prisoner, England, Britain

Id: 7S5FKJ9EJjg

Length: 83min 32sec (5012 seconds)

Published: Wed Feb 15 2023